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good to be with you. i'm katy tur. it has happened again, this time at a walmart in virginia. two days before thanksgiving. during the last minute rush to prepare. you may have woken up to the news, it might have been the first thing you saw this morning. another mass shooting, only three days after five people were killed at club q in colorado. this is not the second mass shooting this week. it's actually at least the seventh in a week. 22 people are dead across the country. 37 more are injured. they happened in colorado, oklahoma, texas, illinois, mississippi, and now virginia. where shoppers who came for thanksgiving groceries, or holiday gifts, were met with the sound of gunfire. a senior law enforcement official tells nbc news the

shooter was a disgruntled employee who was armed with some kind of pistol. he has since been identified as 31-year-old andre bing. one witness, an employee at the walmart, tells an nbc affiliate the shooter was a store manager, and police haven't confirmed all of that, or the motive, but they say he opened fire a little after 10:00 p.m., just as employees on the night shift were clocking in. by the time he took his own life, he killed six people, and injured at least four more. meanwhile, in colorado, anderson lee aldrich who identifies as nonbinary appeared in court the first time via video. charges have still not been formally filed, but aldrich could face multiple murder and hate crime charges. there he is in the middle there, it looks like held up but i can't quite tell in that photo from the hearing, a few minutes ago. joining me from chesapeake,

virginia, nbc's cal perry and in colorado springs, nbc's steve patterson. all right, let's talk about the shooting at the walmart first, cal. we believe he was a manager. he had a pistol and multiple magazines, which i think was just confirmed by the authorities down there. what can you tell us about the details that we're learning today? >> so the pistol and the multiple magazines confirmed in just the last few minutes. the shooting took place at 10:12 p.m. local time, 45 minutes before this store closed. police arrived on the scene, they said two minutes later, two minutes after that, four minutes after the calls came in, they said they were able to breach the walmart. what they found inside were three dead individuals in what is the sort of employee room, the break room, including the gunman. so the gunman killing himself. they found a fourth victim dead by the entrance to the walmart, and then three individuals were able to be rushed to hospital,

but unfortunately died of their wounds in the hospital. so a total of seven people dead including the shooter. at least four others wounded. now, authorities say they're checking on the employment status of those that were killed. in other words, they're thinking that this could lead to motive, that maybe this was, in the words of a senior law enforcement official, telling nbc news, a quote disgruntled employee, who may have been targeting other employees. the fact is, though, at this hour we don't know if we have, deceased employees, the authorities will identify them and notify their families. all of this will continue to be an investigation carried out on the ground and no prosecution that we know of, because the gunman is dead. but the authorities want to know what the motive was, and how this took place, and if possible, how they can prevent these shootings from happening in the future, katy. >> it's tough. let's talk, steve, about what's happening in colorado. we saw the shooter in the hearing today. the shooter has not been formally charged.

what's going on with the investigation? >> yes, no formal charges. i think the biggest information we got today was visual. which is how the shooter looked. the first time we're seeing the shooter. the shooter appeared to have a puffy face, visible markings and when the judge asked for a name, it was barely audible and speaks to the time line of what happened in the club, the shooter was pretty badly beaten in what police have described as essentially heroics to stop further shooting inside the club. meanwhile, it is important to know this was an advisory hearing. it was about the suspected shooter understanding their rights, understanding the case, understanding the details of the case, understanding when there could be a next possible first appearance that could be in person, which would be likely sometime in early december. but for now, the investigation continues. there was also a minor press conference outside following that first advisory hearing, with the district attorney. the district attorney fielding a lot of questions, of course,

about the shooter's past, but also, as you mentioned, in that intro, about the suspected shooter's nonbinary status. will that factor into any possibility about these hate crime charges that could be attached to the charges that we already know about, could it factor into a defense strategy, could it factor into what investigators are looking into, the district attorney, really just saying they have looked at everything, as evidence, they're looking at the strict evidence of the case and there will be more to come. that's what we know so far, katy, but this community continues to be in mourning as we say all of this, of course. >> it is really tough, and again, two mass shootings garnering all of the headlines but at least seven, at least seven in the past seven days, the kind of stuff that you don't hear about as front page news, but the gun violence is happening all over the country. steve and cal, thank you, gentlemen. joining me former fbi agent and author of "stop the killing, how to end the mass shooting

crisis" creating the fbi active shooter program and ran it for five years, and also with me is vice president of policy for brady, christian hiney, began advocating for stronger gun laws after a history of violence, a man with a history of violence shot his parents on memorial day 2005. his sfagter survived multiple gushes and his mother was killed. i'm so sorry you had to go through that, christian. now you know, you know, unfortunately what so many other americans are feeling like today. again, we're talking about these two mass shootings that are getting all the attention but there's been at least seven in the past seven days. how do you stop this madness? >> it is the exact right question, and thank you so much for the way in which you're framing it, i think it is really important to remember how many families are going to go to their, they are both going to sit around with family, and there's going to be an empty

chair, and a massive dark cloud hanging over that dinner table, it's been 17 thanksgivings that i've had where i have not been able to sit across from my mother, and i haven't been able to hear her laugh or taste her food. our family's grown and shrunk in a lot of ways and she missed all of those moments, and many americans who were just preparing for that holiday with their loved ones, this holiday is going to carry a different meaning for them, and we have to remember, right, since the house of representatives took up the assault weapons ban on march 11th, 14,000 people have died. that's 14,000 people who are going to be experiencing that same thing, this thanksgiving, and will continue to experience that every year for the rest of their lives, so we have got to do better. >> you're saying we got to do better. what's stopping us from doing better, christian? >> i think that what is stopping us is not the will of the

american people. it's the courage of a small minority of frankly u.s. senators that are preventing the sort of federal change that is necessary to meaningfully address this epidemic. we have the solutions, and the worst part about it is, more than 90% of americans support these solutions. democrats, republicans, gun owner, nongun owners, everybody wants to come to the table for these common sense solution, and the only people, and the only room in america where we can't get more than 60% of people to agree that we got to do something is on the floor of the u.s. senate. so we have got to have the kind of change and courage that is required to really do something different than we have for these previous decades. >> not to keep picking on you with the questions but is it just the gun lobby, is it just the nra, or is it more than that, is it single issue voters? and gerrymandering? and the way, i guess gerrymandering zs doesn't really

matter for the senate, where does the courage come from? or why would the courage fail here? >> well, i think you are hitting the nail on the head, though, that our democratic system is clearly failing us, if such an overwhelming majority of americans, when you look at polling, you can't get as many americans to agree that thanksgiving dinner is delicious. you can't get that many americans to agree that ice cream is good or puppies are good, right? this is a wildly particularly popular idea. people on both sides of the aisle are desperate fort change but the reality is the way our system is set up, the way our democratic structure is set up, it benefits a very small minority of u.s. senators to create obstacles from us achieving the change that we so desperately need. we saw some cracks in that. because it's so popular, we were able to get this incredible bipartisan bill through. but that debate started with the idea that universal background checks is off the table. so we have got to really push

the senators to do what's right. we've done it this last year, but we've got a ways to go. >> there is going to be all sorts of information about this person who shot up the walmart, and what they were angry about, and was it a disgruntled employee, what happened, all of these questions are going to have some sort of answer in the coming days, maybe weeks, katherine, same thing goes for what happened in colorado, but ultimately explaining who the person is and why they might have done it, it doesn't really matter, i mean they have the access to the weapons, the easy access to the weapons, to commit these murders. and to cause this pain and suffering, so what you are thinking today, as an expert in this field? >> well, i'm tired of carrying out little sheets of paper that have different details from different shootings because i can't even keep them all straight and i do this for a living. but i think that, you know, what you've just been talking about is obviously so relevant, it's framing the issue, because we do

have tremendous support, but we also have the second amendment and i teach a class at depaul college of you la on the second amendment, and it's overwhelming, it overwhelms me every time i teach it, about how much people don't understand about the gun laws that we have. so many people think, oh, there's a big way to track and trace every weapon in the united states. and the government has some big database. they don't. there's a lot of lack of knowledge about the fact that we don't have a way to know where all of the guns. are so that means that, for me, that means that everybody has to be onguard right now, and everybody has to be responsible for the guns in their house, and they have to be responsible for the guns in their neighbor's houses, and their friend's houses, you know, a home is not a democracy, and right now, in the panic situation that we're in, in the united states, every parent should be in their kid's closet, and the trunk of their

car, and in their backpack, and not just the kids, but the average age of a shooter is 35, which is typical of what we've seen in chesapeake, right now, where my daughter has a business in chesapeake, my daughter's boyfriend worked at the shop next door, this is happening in everybody's home, not just some place else, every home is affected, and we need to engage, because when the fbi did research about who hears the signs, the warning signs, 95%, 95% of the individuals who do this kind of shootings leak their concern to people around them. and the highest percentage of people that they leak them to, spouses, domestic partners and friends and family. more than 75% of the time. >> >> so there is a solution for you, having people raise flags sooner. we had the mother raise a flag about her son in colorado, saying that he was making bomb threats, so there was that instance, and still a lot of questions about red flag laws and how it didn't work in

colorado. but katherine, the pushback here, and it's a valid pushback, people will say i own a gun, i'm not a bad person, i use this gun for recreation, it is my right to have this gun, i'm not going to go shoot up a school or shoot up a walmart or a club or whatever. and i'm locking it up, i'm doing everything necessary. why should my rights be threatened, why should i feel that i can't do this, because of some people who are not mentally well? how do you, can you have that right, that second amendment right to have a weapon, and to be responsible for it, while at the same time taking steps to curb this violence? >> yes, so everything you just mentioned about a gun owner, i can check off every box for that, for myself, right? i spent 20 years in the fbi. i have all of that criteria. i'm not going to go out and shoot anything up. i have a weapon. because i'm skilled in it. and i use it occasionally for

entertainment. which i know still perplexes some people, but that's okay. it's a right. but the second amendment is just that, it's in the bill of rights, it is one amendment that is not absolute, just like the first amendment is not absolute. and i think that's really the break point when we get to a conversation about it, there has been a very strong lobbying effort to convince people that any infringement on the second amendment right is going to take away their second amendment right. as opposed to, we don't feel that way about the first amendment, when we talk about say, freedom of speech, and freedom of press, we know it is not proper as the supreme court said to yell fire in a crowded theater. you can't talk about bombs when you're jumping on an airplane. there are certain things you can't do. so those kind of limitations, the reasonable limitation, the supreme court acknowledged, in its decision, in new york pistol

just this summer. >> katherine schweit, thank you very much. and mr. christian hiney, thank you very much for being with us today this. is, you know, just a tough day to have these conversations, but i appreciate both of your expertise, and your, unfortunately, your personal insight in this, christian. appreciate it. >> thank you. and still ahead, goodbye special master. but hello fully-released search warrant affidavit? what's happening with the mar-a-lago investigation? or what could happen? plus, we have a little bit of good news to tell you about. on your holiday travel day. what is happening on the roads and at the airports that might surprise you. if you are one of those people who are googling twitter to see if it is dead yet, like me, stay tuned because kara swisher is with us to explain what's going on with elon musk.

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first, it was the special counsel news. then, it was his tax returns. now, it is the 11th circuit that is looking like it could be handing down another legal setback for donald trump. the panel of federal judges which includes two trump appointees seems to be leaning towards scrapping a special master's review of the documents seized from his mar-a-lago estate. it would be a big win for the justice department, which would then have access to roughly 13,000 documents that had been tied up in the review process. joining me now is former u.s. attorney paul chartton. paul, the hearing yesterday, in it, the judges, not a single one of them, on the three-panel circuit, had any critical questions for d.o.j. and i know you've gone through this. what does that signal to you? >> that's right, katy. i've argued many cases as a

former federal prosecutor before the court of appeals and judges are usually very careful not to disclose which direction they're leaning but here, here they asked some questions that train which direction we can expect them to go when they write this decision. at one point in time, the judges asked the trump team, give me one case, give me some precedent, something, that will show me that what judge cannon did when she appointed a special master has precedent, has some finding in the law, and the trump team was unable to do that. the chief judge during oral argument pointed out to the trump team, listen, you have not proven that this search warrant is unlawful, and he asked this question, why are we here? and if you're looking for something that might demonstrate a little bit of the tenor, the weight of this argument, and how it was founded, at one point in time, the trump lawyers were

talking about the search warrant, and used the word raid. there was a raid at mar-a-lago. the chief judge corrected the trump lawyer, chastised the trump lawyer for using that word. all of which is a tell. it leads to a fair inference, that when this opinion is written, it is likely to be a bad day for trump and a good day for the department of justice. >> what about this question of whether judge cannon even had the jurisdiction to appoint this special master? why would she not have jurisdiction? >> because this judge doesn't get to interfere with the search warrant. it is probably important to talk about what search warrants do and don't do. as you know, search warrants are a tool that prosecutors use at the initial stages of an investigation. they are attempting to simulate evidence and attempting to determine whether or not a crime

has occurred and if every time a search warrant is executed prosecutors are then required to share with the target of their investigation the witnesses we are speaking to, and here are the methods we are using, for example, a wiretap, here is how it is we are gathering evidence and you will destroy investigators and prosecutors' abilities to put together a case that may result in a prosecution. so the court that the court of appeals is asking and many other legal scholars have asked, is how it then that at this point in time, anyone even a former president, would be allowed to delay an investigation such as this one, with a special master. >> hold on a second. we've got breaking news from "the new york times" and joining us by phone is a reporter who has broken the news, correspondent michael schmidt. michael, what do you know? >> we know that in recent weeks, the justice department reached out to former vice president

pence's representative, because they want to question him in connection with the january 6th investigation into trump. this was the first outreach that came from the department through the pence team, and pence had not been subpoenaed yet, but sort of the first step in trying to turn pence into a witness against trump in that investigation. this could take a long time to play out. trump has tried to invoke and use executive privilege to slow and stop former white house officials from testifying against him. that is probably something he would try to do here. he has not been successful in stopping that so far. i think among other aides, but he has been able to slow the process. pence is said to be considering the request from the department, looking at it differently than the congressional investigation of january 6th, which he had

said, he said in interviews last week, for his book, that he does not have, congress does not have a right to his testimony. so he had rejected the overtures from the january 6th committee. it's much harder to reject the overtures from something like a criminal investigation where they could subpoena him. so that's sort of where it stands. obviously, pence, as a witness, against trump, would be yet another remarkable twist in the remarkableness of all of the trump investigations that we've seen in the past. >> do we know if jeff smith has anything to do with this or if he signed off on this since he is now in charge? >> this happened before the announcement of smith and this came from thomas wyndham, one of the lead investigators of the january 6th investigation, as we now know that that investigation, and the mar-a-lago documents investigation, are under jack

smith, but this happened before the appointment. the attorney general made a point last week, when he was announcing the special counsel, that this was not going to be delaying anything in the investigation. the process of getting pence's testimony will take a long time. pence is being represented in this by emmitt flood, he is a veteran washington attorney. he actually worked in the trump white house as the lead lawyer dealing with the mueller investigation. he now represents a bunch of different former white house officials caught up in these trump investigations. and he is pence's new lawyer. >> hasn't he said recently, i believe, i think it was in an interview with chuck todd, former vice president pence has said that he believes that the d.o.j. was overstepping, when they were investigating the documents being held at mar-a-lago, that he thought there were other ways to get documents back, even though

chuck pushed on that and said hey, they tried quite a bit. do we know anything about, well, since he feels not kindly toward this investigation, can you talk more about why he would be more willing to talk to the fbi, or wouldn't try to stonewall him? >> well, it's much harder to stonewall the fbi and the justice department than it is the former vice president to put up a fight with congress. if congress, congress thinks highly of their subpoena, but pence, they never subpoenaed pence to testify, they made some overtures to him. he said he wasn't interested in that. it would be much more difficult for him to be adversarial to the justice department in an ongoing investigation. he could try and fight it. the chances of him prevailing

would probably be pretty low. so it's just, it's just a different dynamic when dealing with the justice department than dealing with congress. >> here's what he said to chuck. i've got to tell you, going to the last resort, executing a search warrant against a former president of the united states, i think sent the wrong message. chuck pushed back and he said trust me, they didn't do everything they could have done to avoid this incredibly divisive step. again, we do know that from the way the fbi has laid this out and the court documents, that they did take a number of steps to try to get these documents back, and then had surveillance footage showing that stuff was moved even after they had subpoenaed the documents from mar-a-lago. mike, one final question to you. just remind us, in case anyone needs reminding out there, what they might want to ask former vice president pence, if they do get a chance to interview him.

>> look, mike pence was the focus of donald trump's efforts to overturn the election, because it was mike pence who had to certify the electoral college vote, and donald trump, working with the little known conservative lawyer, john eastman, came up with this idea which eastman conceded to others was bogus, that pence could take the decision of the election into his hands and basically decide which votes to count and which votes not to count, and the idea of those who stormed the capitol was to hang mike pence, that's what they said outloud, so all of the pressure from trump, it was directed on pence, where he wanted pence to basically take the election into his hands, and make a decision about who won. so pence was the main pressure point that trump was pushing on. including in the oval office.

in a dramatic showdown with pence, in the days leading up to january 6th. >> and just to be abundantly clear, they want to talk to him about january 6th, i was talking about his pushback on the documents case, you know, all of these things, seemed to fold into each other and as time goes on, they are all related to donald trump's refusal to let go of the office of the white house, so to be clear, this would be about january 6th and it seems not about the documents. mike schmidt, thank you very much for jumping on the phone and getting us your reporting. we do appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. paul, i want to go back to the documents one more time. there is one question that i have, regarding a legal proceeding. there's talk that the trump team might go to judge cannon and ask for her to unseal the entire affidavit, the search warrant affidavit. what might happen there? >> extraordinary, because as we were talking earlier, search warrants are a necessity. they have to be kept confidential. they have to be kept secret, so

that the government can conduct its business to determine whether or not a crime has occurred, without interference from the targets of their investigations. here, the trump team is asking the judge to unseal the affidavit, to disclose the list of witnesses that the government has talked to, to disclose the methods by which the government has been assimilating its evidence. were judge canton grant such a motion, it would be unprecedented, and an extraordinary setback for the department of justice. and if she were to do so, i think we could fully expect the department of justice could take that issue once again to the 11th circuit where they have friendly reception to their previous arguments as we discussed earlier. >> paul charlton, thank you very much. let's talk about how this all affects congress, which is an ongoing conversation that we keep on having here. punchbowl news co-founder jake

sherman and msnbc contributor, jake, staying on the legal question, congress got the right given to them by the supreme court, granted to them, to get donald trump's taxes. we broke that story yesterday on the air when it came down. they only have a short amount of time to get the taxes because it sounds like republicans aren't going to want to take this when they take over in january. what is happening right now? are they going to be able to get them quickly? >> there's 40 days left, 40-something days until the new congress which starts january 23, january 3, 2023, and the irony of this whole thing is this was, this was, we could have predicted this, the law is pretty abundantly clear that the house ways and means committee has the ability to review individual's tax returns. it is pretty clearly set out in the law. now, what will they do with them? we don't entirely, we are not entirely sure. but think of it this way, let's put a couple of pieces together here. they have, they will get the tax

returns, i would imagine in the next couple of days, and they will examine them, do something with them, maybe write a report, i'm not entirely sure, and then shortly after that, we imagine the first week of december or thereabouts, january 6th will issue an unrelated report, obviously unrelated to the tax returns but on donald trump and his involvement in january 6th. so an uncomfortable few weeks on capitol hill, in addition to in the courts, but an uncomfortable few weeks on capitol hill for former president trump. >> jake, let's talk about what you were leading punchbowl with today which is mccarthy, kevin mccarthy, it doesn't look like it's a lock-in at all for him to become speaker come january. what's going on? >> yes, this is also tied into donald trump in a sense because kevin mccarthy is a slows ally of donald trump. republicans will have a four-seat majority. 222 members of the house republican conference. which gives mccarthy a four-seat cushion to get the votes he needs to become speaker of the

house. he has six people right now expressing various levels of discomfort with his candidacy. so the question will be for mccarthy is how many, what deals can he cut, how many deals can he cut, to get those people's support, and when he cuts those deal, how much support does he lose on the moderate side? he's hoping none. but we're in basically uncharted territory here, because when democrats were against pelosi, they just didn't vote. they just doesn't vote for pelosi. they didn't vote against her. they voted present. that helps the person running for speaker win. republicans are not willing to do that. there are people like matt gaetz and other folks who disdain kevin mccarthy, so it is going to be a very messy, we imagine, january 3rd, and keep in mind, the new congress cannot get started until republicans have a speaker. they can't swear in members. they can't begin legislative proceedings of any kind until there's a speaker of the house. so not only is this an internal

house republican battle, but this is an important battle just to get the branches of government working in 2023. >> i will be glued to my inbox every morning when i get the punchbowl newsletter. what is it, 6:30 in the morning. 6:00 a.m.? >> about 6:00 or thereabouts we like to say. >> i always get new information about the drama behind the scenes. jake, thank you very much. >> thank you. and still ahead, as thanksgiving travelers head out, we are live and we've got some good news for you, about the travel holiday. even though it looks pretty busy there at l.a.x. stay tuned for that. and the start of the macy's thanksgiving day parade and blowing up the balloons, this is the best, absolute best tradition, in my opinion, even better than the parade itself. don't go anywhere. are you looking forward to it compared to tv? >> it looks so much bigger and so much real-er, and so much

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supposed to be the worst time to get on the road. the worst time for driving or for flying, as we head to thanksgiving tomorrow. aaa predicted this week could be the busiest thanksgiving travel week since it began tracking travel weeks in 2000. that's before the pandemic. so let's finds out what it's really like out there. joining me now from reagan national airport, arlington, virginia, an aberdeen, maryland, gary, you have some good news for us, let's start on that. >> yes, well, we traveled memorial day, and fourth of july this year, the departures board was filled with cancellations and delays and i want to show haw it looks like right now, it is filled with on time flights. just a handful of delays out of washington at this hour. that's really good news. for the 4.5 million americans that are expected to take to the skies to reach their destinations for thanksgiving

this week. it is really a stress test as well for the airline industry that as we have been talking about over and over again, really experiencing this pilot and staff shortage, and secretary pete buttigieg told lester holt earlier last week, they are aware of it and they're working on it and doing everything in their power to make that happen, and clearly things are working here. here is what some folks we talked to this morning had to say about the lack of lines here at dca. >> i was a little surprised by that. i was expecting to get here to see lines like crazy. >> you got here a little early just in case? >> yes. >> i am, my flight doesn't leave until 2:00. but i know, right i decided to come early and avoid the traffic so here i am. >> you got some time to hang out in the terminal. >> sky lounge, yes. why not. >> that's the answer. once a year, right? >> reporter: always splurge on the sky lounge. that's my advice. aaa says get here earlier than you think you need to and check

for garage availability before you drive yourself to the airport. >> gary, thank you. happy to start with that good news. plels sarks does it look as easy out there on the roads? >> yes, so katy, it was looking good this morning, but as we have been here for the last several hour, we have watched the parking lot behind us gradually fill up. this is one of the travel stops in maryland. and then just in front is a gas station, and we are watching both slowly fill up. i have a map pulled up here and i don't think you can see all of the red that i am seeing, i have anecdotally just spoken to a bunch of drivers on the roads, it went from pleasant surprises on how open they were, to now we're starting to hear comments from people saying maybe giving us a thumbs down as they're driving past and starting to get a little bit more congested out there. take a listen to someone we caught up with who, listen, when it comes to driving on the roads, it is cheaper than flying, but gas overall isn't

cheap. >> with premium, it's not been too bad, prices are down a lot from the summer, so it's been not too bad. i'm ready to fill up once we're done here and see how much that is going to cost but i filled up this morning, and i think it was 68 bucks. that's better than 90. >> yes. and still cheaper than most flights, i guess. >> yes. >> cheaper than that train ticket, too? >> definitely cheaper than a train ticket. >> so to also leave you on a good note, gas, when it comes to the expensive gas, yes, more expensive than this time last year, but cheaper than last month, and certainly a lot cheaper than what we saw this summer. >> marissa, my bad for that name earlier, thank you so much. >> gary, thank you as well. good luck out there. more than 3 million

americans are expected to attend this year's macy's thanksgiving day parade. but as we like to do, the day before thanksgiving, we like to give you a little bit of a preview, the giant balloons that will be heading down the parade route, are being inflated right now. on manhattan's upper west side. joining me now from new york city, nbc's kristen dalg gren. i love this tradition. i would report on it when i was in local news, and i just love, i love the scene of the balloon go from this tiny flat folded piece of rubber, blown up and just expanded in size inside the netting. there is something very surreal about it. what's if like there today? is it feeling parade-ier, as that young girl said? >> parade-ier. we coined a new phrase. this is the place to be. i have never been this close to the balloons and when you're this close, just how enormous they are, babio dark and look, the crowds are right here as well. it is not just that we're

getting special treatment being so close, and the people who have come out, and they're filing past, to get a look at these monsters, this is one of the new ones, this is a diary of a wimpy kid. a new one here, we also have new blue-y this year, as well as dino and stewart the minion, and animatronics, this year, a balloon and, that and we have a group of people here, we want to introduce to you, from all over, i heard denver, i heard boston, chicago, what do you guys most looking forward to? >> the parade. and the balloons. >> have you ever seen them up close before? >> no. >> first time. >> what is the difference between seeing them here and seeing them on today. >> i think the energy and the crowd. and they look smaller here and bigger on tv. >> all right. >> do you have a favorite? >> no, this is our first time here. >> we're here for the new york city parade. >> any of the characters that you're most looking forward to? >>o da is really doing it for me

right now. he's so cool. >> we lovo da. they are fabulous up close. they really are spectacular. >> the green giant. >> we have a little bit of everything. >> of course. >> santa. a lot of exciting stuff going on here, the parade starts at 8:45 tomorrow morning. >> i don't know, i don't think they look smaller when you're standing there next to them, but i'll leave her to her opinion. i have a very important question from a very important viewer, tony dokoupil wants to know if there are paw patrol characters, chase there? anyone? >> there is, who is here from paw parole? >> i think it might be chase. bring the kids. i have my daughter coming tomorrow, we'll have a play date and check out the balloons. >> thank you so much. chase is on the case. thank you very much. and still ahead, twitter's advertisers might be fleeing

faster than the employees. kara swisher, our favorite person, is lear to talk about what in the world is going on with elon musk. going on with elon skmu

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it appears the layoffs on twitter are over. during an all hands meeting earlier this week, elon musk told the remaining employees that the company is recruiting for sales and engineering roles, this is those still there telling the verge. twitter had nearly 70,000, 70,500 before musk took over and now 2,700 or so, and the personnel laws and the structural and cultural changes and the exodus of advertiser has fueled speculation that the company might be on the verge of dying. joining me is the host of "on with kara swisher," and the pivot podcast. so i'm glad we asked you to come on today because you're getting into it with elon musk right now on twitter. what's going on? >> he just got mad about

something i tweeted which he always does, and i wrote him back and i used it as an opportunity to try to establish communications with him, and this is the way he wants to communicate, it's fine by me. so i was telling him, i was really disappointed and i sound like a mom, but i really am, actually semi age, close to my age, so i covered this guy for a long time and i have liked a lot of the things he has done and how he is behaving now, i think it is a sad violin of behavior, i don't know how else to put it. >> so you spoke about this when it was rumored that he was flirting with the idea of buying it and you were more of the alarmist, god, this is going to be terrible, and you had a perspective on that, and i guess i should be looking at it this way, and i heard him talk about twitter in person a little while ago and he talked about freedom of speech, not breach, and maybe i'm looking at this all wrong, maybe this could be a good thing, and what has happened since then? it has seemed very erratic and confusing and the tweets, with

the girl, and the jesus figure, what is going on? >> i don't know about that. i think he's got some bad enablers around him for one, and for two, he has had a part of his personality, that has always been, there he has always been sort of, he tends to go toward this kind of humor, the bottom level basement humor and now it has taken over his whole personality and it is not the person i know for many years, and he has certainly displayed this at reporters but the freedom of speech, it really held the trope, for many, many years, he is getting to it, compared to everyone else who has talked about this issue, i think he's running into the difficulty of running the social media platform which is very difficult in the best of circumstances and there is not the best of circumstances. they've got huge debt. they've got issues with advertisers that were, you know, he did it to himself, shooting himself in the foot. and remaking the company that he is trying to do in his own

image, so he feels like he has to destroy it, and i've heard internally that it's like chemotherapy, intense keemer that, to kill the cancer, i don't know if there is canser there, but that seems like that is what he needs to do to remake it the way he wants it to be. >> killing the cancer, i guess whatever, using the radiation, if you want to keep going with the metaphor, is he going to kill the entire website? and kill the social media platform? >> no, i think it is very hard to kill off a social media platform, i mean aol dialup is still around. so, you know, others are still limping around. but i think you know, you certainly, for years, you know, i talked about the problems at twitter, the management, and the way it has managed and underleveraged as a brand and also as a business, a very difficult business to be in but nonetheless super underleveraged and the stock reflected that. i don't think he's going to,

he's going to, it is going to collapse necessarily, it is very resilient in a lot of ways but certainly he didn't have to do it this way to make these changes. the whole point of going private is to be private about the changes and instead, it has become kind of like a circus act, and a persistent dunking on things that bothered him and that seems to be a waste of time, all of this juvenile dunking, but he has a lot of fans who like this kind of thing, so we're in a long, long episode of jackass, i'm not sure what else to say. >> so there are a lot of folks, the advertiser, the money makers are leaving, as you know, i was listening to you talk on pivot, a great podcast, and you talk about in order to get advertisers to make money off of this, you got to have more moderation. is there going to be an awakening at some point? what do you expect? >> no, because it is actually too small. twitter has been kind of the extra bot for people, facebook

and youtube and other sites are where it's at, and tiktok, more and more and twitter makes all of those turn from previous management, jack dorsey and many others, so i think he doesn't care about the advertising, and he is probably correct that it is really hard for advertisers, not big business for advertisers, and that said, that is paying the bills and that's the problem and he's got to find money somewhere and he has a lot of his own so maybe that's where he gets it from, his own wallet. >> got it. kara, thank you very much. i have 100 more questions but i'm running out of time. happy thanksgiving, my friend. >> you too. thaunks. and that is going to do it for me today. yasmin vossoughian has some breaking news out of georgia on abortion, so please do stay tuned for that. don't go anywhere. will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you.

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