pepper all over. just like lather that maybe up, right. on the outside, in the cavity. you can also top of, but not the time, just the salt and pepper. mix it up also with some time, you can do a little rosemary if you want under the skin with some butter before you want to cook it. so that that butter will just melt in their. and then get a nice big bottle of cheap white wine to based with butter. yes, hello. >> yes, hello. happy thanksgiving. and remember to give thanks to the farm workers who worked tirelessly every day to get that food to our tables. that is tonight's last word. i will see you on the sunday show starting at 10 am eastern, right here on msnbc. msnbc coverage continues right now with all in with chris hayes. tonight on the readout. i literally looked at him, i

saw the smoke leaving the sun. i literally watched bodies drops. i was frozen. i just stood there. i literally could be dead right now. it didn't kicked in until i looked at my coworker, and she was bleeding out of her neck. >> the violence society, where anyone of us could be the next big victims of a mass shooting. while right-wing politicians refused to do anything about it. plus, what we are learning about the colorado shooting suspect from his neighbors and his social media accounts. how he managed to obscure a very troubled past. also tonight, mike pence refused to talk to the january six committee about trump's insurrection, which could've gotten the vice president, former vice president killed. well, now, there's new reporting tonight that the doj wants to talk to pence. and he just couldn't quite do. it we're gonna begin tonight with thanksgiving, the day we gathered with friends and family to enjoy turkey, stuffing, mash potatoes, pumpkin pie, throughout the, game catch-up live and then discuss or quite possibly argue

about religion and politics. for millions of americans, it is traditions, and as americans, we certainly value those traditions. but, it is also important to unpack the midst of, things it is a holiday riddled with historical inaccuracy. both on this myth that the indigenous welcomed their column lies with open arms and here's so it's a simplistic fairytale interpretation of the 16 21 calendar between indigenous tribes and english -- that erases the genocide that follows. it's the truth that republicans want banned from our textbooks. because, here's the secret, they want so desperately to keep. we are a country founded on violence. and 16 19, the ship with more than 20 enslaved africans landed in virginia. ushering in two centuries of american slavery that left millions in chained and dead. and when those humans in bondage's were finally free, a terrorist organization that was

a car carrying member of polite society are the ku klux klan, using violence to maintain white supremacy. the klan on its ilk are still planted and as a -- we are a country that chooses violence over and over again. there is no facet for american society that is untouched. as, all the recent headlines remind us. the human violence is not just american. it is global. while we're preparing for thanksgiving, rockets rained down on kyiv and several other ukrainian cities, knocking out power and water. at least two people were killed in russian airstrikes, today including a 17 year old girl less than 24 hours after officials said a newborn was killed by missiles that hit a maternity hospital. our country is thankfully not being invaded by foreign power, as is ukraine. but, it is not engaged in a civil war, like in yemen. and yet, our people are facing

the same types of weapons that these people are facing in the war. a semi automatic weapon, barely different from the weapon soldiers are using in ukraine can appear anywhere. republicans make sure of that. so, on any day, at any moment, you can get shot and killed at a supermarket or animal, or hospital, at your workplace, at a cemetery, at a nightclub or a concert. at a movie theater, a parade, a birthday party, even a month for the most sacred places, a synagogue or church. and at far far too many schools. in 2022, there have been more than 600 mass shootings in the u.s.. the bodies aren't even buried before the next one takes place. today, a colorado judge ordered the suspect accused of gunning down five people at an lgbtq nightclub, held without bond, it was a defendant's first court appearance. then, we woke up this morning to another mass shooting. this time, at a walmart in virginia. by a manager who opened fire on

his fellow employees, killing six people. this time, with a pistol. -- it is the second high-profile mass shooting in four days. we now know the names of the victims, they are lorenzo gamble, bryan pendleton, kelly pile randall blevins and tiny cut johnson. the six victims is a 16 year old residents of chesapeake whose name is being withheld due to him being a minor. it's also named the three college students nameless during a shooting in the same state at the university of virginia. they are devin chandler, lavall davis and the shaun perry. how much more bloodshed retelling. how much the big howard for whenever we're out of our homes. and now, look closely how much more longer masardis endure active shooter drills in elementary school. how much more empty seats at thanksgiving dinner?

there is no way to fixed it and possibly ended but instead we are trapped in a cycle of gun violence. it feels permanent. because it extreme minority that has infiltrated congress loves guns, more than they love people. whether it's their beloved ar-15-style semiautomatic rifle, the favorite weapon of mass shooters, including the shooter in colorado or the pistol like the one used in walmart, we are stuck in this loop because america continues, no, insist on choosing violence. violence that makes history's biggest global colonizers, the united kingdom blush as british journalist gary young explains. >> i lived in america for 12 years. i very rarely felt the threat of being -- but i also felt the threat of being -- it in britain i never felt the threat of being shot down, even if i do i can't even feel the threat of it, but i know what -- whereas rather be. >> joining me now from

chesapeake, virginia, is nbc news correspondent cal perry. also joining me, jason johnson, professor of journalism at morgan state university. and host of the podcast, a word with jason johnson. along with chris brown, president of the brady campaign. thank you for being here. cal, i do want to start with you. what do we know about the shooting in virginia? at the warmer. >> so, we know it happened at 10:45, excuse me 10:15 last night, 45 minutes before the wall markle's. you could see where i'm standing right, now the parking lot completely shut down. but how many times have you washed to a walmart just before closing, just before closing. that's the way the store was last night, it was packed just before closing. 31-year-old man who has worked here for ten, years walked into the store with a pistol and a few clips and shot that six people. three, including himself inside one of those employees break rooms. somebody else an employee died at the front entrance, three other employees managed to make it alive out of the walmart and

died in nearby hospitals. we now know that all of those that were killed worked at this walmart. and we know the shooter who took his own life was a manager, now police are continuing to come through the city behind, they want to get all the forensic evidence that they can, but of course, it's quite possible that there will not be any kind of legal action here because of course the gunman is dead. i just want to just hear an overall point which is about where we are as a country because i spent the day here outside of this walmart reporting on the. and, one of the things that i was struck by was members of my crew witnessing people walk through here with their side arms. openly, because this is an open state. earlier this morning, not far from, here at the target there was a false alarm of another shooting. police descended on that door and, look, it's to everybody wonder especially me what do you do if your town that's on and and you see somebody with a gun in an open carry state? there is really nothing that you can do. it sort of confuses the

situation even further for a town that is on edge for all the reasons that i said. it just seems to be a complicating factor. now, in virginia, there are certain towns and certain cities where you cannot openly carry. but you can hear. and it will be interesting to see, if we hear from more state senators, because we've heard from some today or talking about shifting this legislation. but, i don't need to tell you we often hear that in the aftermath of these attacks and then at -- >> this is one afraid to shop in virginia, to be honest with you. it's an open carry, state people walk around with guns and we know that we have seen a case in hole high aware man was buying a toy can in a warmer and wound of getting shot by police. because in that, state the black man was considered too dangerous to be holding a toy. i wanna talk to, you chris brown about this. because the governor of virginia issued a state and, they do it all the time thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers -- there's an editorial that pointed out and mother, jones he didn't use the word gun, he left that were completely out. and i just want to show you how his lieutenant governor ran with him when she was on his

ticket. here was the ad. we're gonna put it up. this was the picture of it. that's how they ran. they basically, the whole idea was -- and guns so your thoughts on his thoughts and prayers? >> so that was completely county turned to what the vast majority and also injury. in virginia want and need from our state. we are coming, up actually, this next, year in 2023. we will have another election in virginia, and i think and i hope that gun violence prevention is on the ballot because before we had this governor, we had a governor who actually ran and won on the issue of gun violence prevention. and we accomplished what everyone in virginia said was impossible. we passed six laws to really change the demographic change, the nature of gun violence

prevention in the state of virginia. duncan ran and won not on this platform per se but he is beholden to the gun industry. so, what he and the legislature in virginia want to do is actually rollback all of that and, to your point, it is a very, very dangerous and scary place to be if you don't feel that you're shopping, you're going to church, you're dropping your kids at school and their basic safety measures in place that can protect you. that is not just why we need change in virginia, it is why we need this senate in the land -- to pass the assault weapons ban to pass the house, and the background check expansion that are both pending in the senate. we need to take up both of those bills and that will save lives. maybe not a [inaudible] particular mask rulings, but some of what we just heard

about. people would be saved. >> yes, and jason, you want to college in virginia. you lived there. and, the thing is, there were certain states where you know it's open carry, texas, ohio, virginia, places where i personally feel on edge. but it's really everywhere in this country, where you just know, people -- you can get got at school you could be in church. there's not another country. we're just gonna go there and stick up for them, people run from office, and say look at this gun! look at this gun! look at this gun! i have a gun! i have guns! i have lots and lots of guns! here we are, we have firearms, per person, only -- it's less than half but we are country where they run for office-ing, i might be deadly. i don't find great joy --

in part of the story that really affects me is that, this is not, as a journalist, this is not a political analysts this is not a -- but between -- and what happened in uva which is where i went to, school or the dc sniper, whose last victim was at the gestation that my family uses before getting on the highway on 95, these are abstract stories to me these are all places i've actually been. enough for work. they are where i just live my life as a regular person. and, we are just two weeks away from really important midterms, i hope that people have these ideas in their head when they voted, and stop the red wave. because, there's a solution to this. the solution is, don't get crazy people in office. the solution, is about four state senators and governors and representatives that are going to, say no you don't need to carry a gun in church don't really think jesus was concerned about that. that is where we find a solution to these things, because the fact that so many americans now can say, i was

there yesterday. i walked through the walmart, i was at that grocery store, i had to keep checking in with friends. that is not the kind of country that we now live, in and not the kind of country we want to be thankful for. >> yes, i mean, can we just play, this this is cut for for my director. and, i'm just gonna play. it and, i want to go back to you on this cal. because you have been a war correspondent. haven't you ever been in a country where people were politicians and do this? you know, if your country is under siege, if you're in ukraine, it's kind of bad us to let people know that any -- of these are american television. that's have you ever seen anything like this in another country where you've done journalism, cal? and keep playing it while he answers. >> you're playing, yeah i've never seen, it i've never seen anywhere like this i'm not giving you an example why we were in ukraine and the government of ukraine as a

pretty serious debate about whether not had a firearms pretty and. ukraine, and they decided to do so, but the results -- after somewhere, that was the conversation that they were openly have something. but i spent part of my time living in london. my kids live in london, my wife lives there, i know you have a connection there. people in the united kingdom you do the united states as having a gun finish. and, they view this as largely as a side of issue. because the number of guns in this country, and i cannot see it on the monitor, but i think you probably put the number on the screen. the number of guns in this country per person is completely and totally ridiculous, so the idea that we're gonna take guns off the, street if you talk to people overseas is a little bit absurd. the last, thing i will tell you, is as you said my relationship to firearms in many ways goes all the way back. as a journalist early 2003, so i see firearms have done during the war in iraq, the words in syria, the war in yemen and i see what firearms do inward

zones and they do the same things here, a high velocity around fired from -- those exactly the same damage as a firearm overseas, and the government today, last night i should, say use the pistol. but, he killed six people in a very short period of time. the police arrived on scene here four minutes after the initial call went out. and it's not clear how many people were already dead. >> there you go, there is only barely a difference between an ar-15 and then m16s, just not automatic. but it does the same thing because it was me to be almost exactly the same on purpose. nbc's cal perry, jason johnson, kris brown, thank you so much. next on the readout, i will talk to the colorado reporter who learned quite a lot from the neighbors of the club q shooting -- . - before it starts, and it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. find it yourself in the family planning aisle no prescription, no id. i've got this. ♪♪

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of the suspect in sunday's horrific shooting in colorado springs. five people were killed and 18 wounded. appearing in court by video, and instantly alters, answer the basic questions walls wearing handcuffs and an orange protective suit. aldridge is being held without bail on suspicion of five counts of first degree murder. and five -- a crime causing bodily injury. just hours before the, hearing the suspect public defenders claimed their client is not -- non binary -- non-binary, and uses they them pronouns. that claim like a blazer, using it to try to stop criticism to

-- right-wing hate -- towards the drag and transgender community has led to an explosion in hate crime. after the hearing, the district attorney prosecuting the case, the short reporters that all those trudges identity not binary would have no bearing on how he would prosecute the case including whether to charge hate crimes. well the right was happening to take the word of an accused killer it would be helpful to get the facts and to stick to them. so, here's what we know, the daily beast is reporting that in a prior arrest in texas, aldridge notice six as a mill. additionally, the daily beast was able to view text messages from the day of the shooting where his mother uses he and him when mentioning aldridge. running for the daily beast, reporter, rebecca hopkins, spoke with one of the neighbors who referred to himself as a friend of aldridge, and claim that aldridge kept an assault style rifle and a burner phone

in his one bedroom apartment. in quote, used the f term a lot. most of the time, it came from a place of anger. media reports have noted that aldridge was a member of the church of jesus christ, but has not been active in the colorado springs location. until 2019, described say same-sex marriage as a pox to see, but condemn the shooting. a local cbs affiliate spoke with the suspect a strange father, who was a mixed martial arts fighter, and a former actor in porn films. embarrassment over richie says prompted his son to change his name and his mother to claim that he had died. and who has a documented history of drug addition, here's what he said no excuse -- do you have a moment? i am a republican. and -- aldridge maternal grandfather's outgoing maga republican

california assemblyman, randy votel, who celebrated the january 6th insurrection. he says, he is not had a relationship with his grandson in ten years. media reports also show that aldridge is an active member in an online community. there was notoriously empty. gay and, just so happen to proudly tout hill counts from mass shootings. reporter hawkins, who is based in colorado joins me now. rebecca, thank you so much for being here. talk to me about what the neighbors of this alleged shooter told. i mean, sometimes in these cases of violence, you know, you get neighbors saying that we had no idea. were surprised were shocked and i would say that this was the complete opposite from the very start talking with a couple of the neighbors. they were just red flag after red flag after red flag, and definitely with that theme of homophobic slurs and attitude and violence. yeah, they were shocked in some

ways. but not all that surprise. certainly, they were the red flags. let's just see that. >> did any of the neighbors ever indicate, to, you that aldridge ever claim to be non-binary? >> no, i was just totally shocked to hear that news and i would say that the indicators, were first, of all definitely using homophobic slurs. the way the neighbors talked about, them they used he and him, the text messages they showed with his mom with them referring to him as his son. he him. there was no indication of that on monday. >> so, the father claimed that he had not had any contact with him in over ten years. and, also said that the mother told him that her son was dead, once his name was changed to aldridge. did the neighbor say anything about the mother's relationship with the sun? did they ever witness how they

interacted with each other? because there is this previous case of him threatening to blow up a house. >> yes, i would say mixed. i mean, they live together. into different places. one, one place she loved by herself, and he lived with the grandparents. and, the same neighborhood. and then the second location they lived up until two months ago. they lived in a one bedroom apartment together and i was told that he slept on the couch, she slept in the bedroom. but there was fighting between them. so, yes, it was kind of mixed situation i would say. but definitely, there were red flags were really clear. [inaudible] >> go ahead. >> i was going to say, they wouldn't go to the gun range. that was the only thing that they would do together. >> and, it was the indication by the neighbors that he already had ar-15 style rifles or that he was acquiring more because i did read in some of your reporting that he was

trying to invite neighbors to go with him to the shooting range. >> yes. he would show them to his neighbor. invite him to go to the shooting range. shop about specifically going to a one that would allow that rapid fire kind of practice. and again, showing new videos of him at the gun range and his mom, their his mom sent the videos to this neighbor, it was a big thing. and the mother is the daughter of a california congressman, an outgoing maga congressman, he has claimed that he has not had a personal relationship with his grandson. but, if you got any reporting as to how it, is this is somebody who's the grandson of a prominent person, who seems to have had the records of previous violence for dog. is there any reason to understand why that happened or how that happened? >> i mean, i don't have any information, at this point to report on whether it was

somebody trying to because of political reason or the person in power. i mean, colorado, it was cases that are dismissed for various reasons to very easily get those records sealed. and so, i am not sure, it's not clear yet which direction that went. but at least we know how that went in colorado. >> i would like to have you back, rebecca hopkins, thank you for your reporting. if you get anything, else waiver hands as you say virtually raise your arms and get back in touch with us, we'd love to have you back on. so, thank you very much. >> all right. thank you so much. >> thank you, all right, still ahead, the new york times is reporting tonight that the doj wants to question mike pence about his former boss's efforts to remain in office. that is next, stay with us. xt, stay with us teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual action effect

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of donald trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election, the justice department may finally get to talk to someone who no one else has heard from under oath yet. former vice president, mike pence. new reporting from the times, they, today said the doj is seeking to question the former vp as a witness. new connection with that probe, according to two people familiar with the matter. despite pulling -- ruling out ever speaking to the

january six committee in the house, pence has, quote, open to considering the request, according to people familiar with this thinking. the discussions i said to be in the early stages. pence, of, course was subject to the pressure from the campaign inflicted by his former boss. leading up to january six. trump, publicly and privately urged pence to block certification of the electoral college result. he was also a direct target of the mob that stormed the capitol. some of whom chanted, hang mike pence, just to make sure they were clear. this comes after one has already been a pretty bad, week legally speaking for trump. the supreme court denied his last effort to stop house democrats from getting his tax records. and, in appeals court panel seems likely to throughout the special master in the investigation. and, to his handling of classified documents to name a few. joining me now is barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst. barb, great to see. so, first, this idea that pence is considering the request, can you just consider it?

i, mean if the doj says i want to talk to you can see just be like no? >> you know, there's an old image in the law that the effect susan title to everyone's evidence. and that's true of everyone, in fact the supreme court in the watergate area rule that that even counts for a sitting president, so the idea that a former vice president can, say no things is really ludicrous. now, what he may be talking about is going cooperatively without a subpoena. and he is considering, that. perhaps, but if he were to resist, i think he would fill in this one. >> is anything that he says to the doj under oath by definition, right? >> well, he could be interviewed, not under oath, but still crime full lie to them. , so regardless of whether they're under oath or not, he is bound to tell the truth there. it's not like the old court ruling that was freeze testifying that there's no obligation to the media. when you're either to testifying the ground very or

under oath or simply answering questions from the fbi or other government agent, it is a crime to lie to them. >> well, let me finish this from the new york times piece. it's, as complicated miseducation is whether trump might try to invoke executive privilege. to stop, ends our limit's testimony. it is said that he is taking limited success so far with their facials. what would be the chances of trump of being able to prevent pence's testimony? >> i think, little to none. i am sure that he will try, but we've already seen him play this card in his quest to prevent the white house from turning over documents to the national archives. trump, turning over documents to the january six committee. the supreme court even ruled on this and said that the interest in investigating the january six events outweighed any executive privilege that might exist. there's the additional factor that the court didn't even consider their. but, has also been a factor that it is the incumbent president who possesses the executive privilege.

so, it would be joe biden who would decide whether to invoke in executive privilege or. not you're supposed to listen to a prior president, if the prior president expresses a good faith belief that exposing the secrets would be harmful to the national security or to the republican general. the president should consider. that, but in this instance, the goal is to protect the interest of the country. and, i can't imagine that the president would see that the executive privilege would prevail. here >> now, let me play a little bit of the general six hearing. this is him talking about pence to and refusing to leave the capitol. >> when we got down to the secure location, secret service directed us to get into the cars which i did. and, then i noticed that the vice president had. not so, i got up of the car that i had gotten into and i understood that the vice president had refused to get into the car that ahead of the secret service detail, had said,

i assure you, we're not gonna drive of the building without of your permission. and the vice president had said something to the effect of, tim, i know, you i trust, to but you're not the one behind the wheel. >> i mean, just as a lay person, it seems to, me sort of ludicrous that a president. donald trump had said that he could get the one on fifth avenue. this should be shooting on fifth avenue with the person surviving with him saying that there's executive privilege, you can't talk to that person because it would hurt national security. they are the victim. pence is the victim. right? at least, he's one of them. can you exert executive privilege over the person against whom you essentially attempted to commit a crime? >> you know, it seems absurd. and that's why, thing ultimately, this play will fill and may result in some delay, but i think ultimately, it will fail with the purpose of executive privilege is to promote candor where you have aids sharing their advice and their impressions with the president. you want to promote, that you have a chilling effect. because they're looking over your shoulder blade that it

would be disclosed later. but, that's not what this, is this is a mike pence providing advice to the president. this is reacting to a violent attack. i think all of the events that occurred, there in the capitol that, they are very relevant. we want to know what was going on. mike pence would want to know why he would get into the car. was it because he would believe that the secret service would be in his best interest to protect himself? or was he worried that there was some nefarious activity going on in the secret service? he also was along with president trump, discussed some of those matters about whether or not mike pence could single-handedly -- the election i think only he can provide the firsthand testimony that the rules of evidence could required to get that testimony until talking to him is absolutely essential to making those cases. >> absolutely, and i think it was essential to the january six committee. barbara mcquade, thank you so, much appreciate your expertise. before we go to break, i want to play a little sound from republican senate candidate, herschel walker today. take a look.

>> and, at the same, time senator warnock either -- i took him to sue because he found out a lot of things that he didn't know and i would do the same thing with jordan reed anytime of the day. i think he was said on tv and the talk was easy to talk. but, i have been a man that worked my whole life, i've built companies, i signed the front of a paycheck, they've never done anything of that. they never done any of, that they don't know how to do, that i do. and i think anyone what you want to, debate you could show up here and i have to be, this or any subject him which he'd come out with, let's just go ahead -- >> okay herschel, come, on it's nothing but a short walk. seriously. we have reached out to your, team we will have you on the readout any day, and we can debate, just tell us when but i do want to make one thing clear, herschel. you cannot bring your friends, you see little friends there? you can bring them. you have to do this debate on

your own, but come on the doors are the church and open like the pastor said. and, we'll be right back. e right back detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is for some adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment or replacing their current hiv-1 regimen. detect this: no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. research shows people who take hiv treatment as prescribed and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit hiv through sex. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients, or if you take dofetilide. taking dovato with dofetilide can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. hepatitis b can become harder to treat while on dovato. don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor, as your hepatitis b may worsen or become life-threatening. serious or life-threatening side effects can occur,

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award winning filmmaker, ken burns, has been one of our countries preeminent historian. in his latest book, are america, a photographic history, burns presents a collection of his favorite photos that is described as embodying nearly 200 years of the american

experiment. in his most recent pbs documentary, burns examined a difficult period of that experiment. turning his lands on the american response, leading up to and during the holocaust. >> we are challenges for americans, to think about what we would've done, what we could've done, what we should have done. >> in our better moments, we are very good people. but that is not all there is to the story. >> and, ken burns joins me now. it is always such a treat to talk to you. the guru for all of us want to be documentarian, thank you so much for being here. >> it's great to be with you, thank you so much for having me. >> so, there's so much to talked, about i want to talk about this, but let me show, to you it's fabulous, i love, it a coffee table book. and it's beautiful, fabulous images of america. tell us what are we going to see in this volume and what are we going to experience? >> so, it has been a labor of

love for 15 years, joy, i have worked on nights and weekends on it while it was doing my thumb and i'm rooted in photography but the basic -- was an amateur, still photographer, my mentor was a film photographer, jerome, who was photographed in 1949, graces the cover of the book. and, so i want to go, back i've been thinking about this for years and just try to return full value to photograph. so there's 250 of, them one to a, page minimum caption you look at, them you don't, didn't it's all of us, good, bad difficult as you were saying about the hala scott. joy, -ish, funny floors, peace, natural beauty the whole story of us is there. all the things we're talking about today, indian schools in carlisle, the capital building in its earlier architectural version. inaugurations and peaceful transfers of power. the statue of liberty. and the meaning of liberty.

jewish immigration. all of that thing is there. i mean, really to be honest it's my. america i think that there is too much of that divisional. and we have a website called ken burns.com which is trying to sort of take the evergreen beans of america. and try to have a conversation with people. and celebrate what we share in common, what i've learned, if i've learned anything over more than four decades is that there is only us and there's not them. and never, anyone as you are the, you are in big trouble in just one way. you know, you've revealed from the civil war to your latest documentary which i thoroughly enjoyed, it was so good but you confront issues that are difficult to talk about in this country. now that the holocaust arrive hours and their children tell me that they feel like they're in a sort of 1930s moment in

this country, where there's an openness to fascism, they haven't seen since the era. what do you make of americans resistance to understanding the difficult parts of our history such that we won't repeat them? >> you know, that such a wonderful question and it goes to the heart of all of my work, history doesn't repeat itself but as mark twain supposedly said, firearms. and so, all of the films that i do, seemingly, safely in the distant pass aren't safe. you know there's an america first committee, what does trump have? we're always on precipice, and we see all of this flirtation with authoritarianism as you put it. and, in fact, the new york times about a month ago when a piece about how people are concerned about democracy but its way down on the list of the midterm stuff. well the midterms are passed and we're sort of taking a sigh of relief. the battle isn't over.

but what it said is that that concern about the fragility of our institutions [interpreter] we had three courses, the civil war, the depression and world war ii. but never where things like a free and fair election or the peaceful transfer of power, or the independents at the judiciary question. but now they're questioned in the middle of the pandemic and all sorts of bullying and division. and so i would urge people to look at this. when marcellus said, in my guesting, sometimes a thing and the opposite of a things are true at the same time. you can actually appreciate this if you are married, if you have children, if you have good friends. you understand, it's not absolute. i have stormed a great progressive writer and was asked in a sort of disappointing fashion by an acolyte, why he liked thomas jefferson. clearly, i suppose, because of his ownership of slaves. and stunned said is because history is in melodrama. it's a tragedy, which means, to me that in melodrama every

violent is perfectly villainous. every heroes perfectly virtuous. but life, and history, which is reported life. is it like that and so we have to figure out a way to understand each other. the book is an attempt to do. that all of the films have attempted to do that. and nothing is ever achieved if you run away and put your head in the sand and don't confront the really tough stuff. >> it's so brilliant. it's so brilliantly said. no one is perfectly good, no one is perfectly evil. but there is a factor in this country that is demanding that, for instance, the founding fathers beeper to that's perfectly good. otherwise, they won't allow anything else to be taught in schools. >> if we assume that we're the most exceptional country on earth, why wouldn't we be harder on ourselves than anything? and it's not harder. it's just too. you want to look at this fact, the guy who articulated to still a century of enlightenment thinking, into one sentence we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal on

600 human beings in the lifetime. didn't see the hopoca contradiction. and that is the story. that's interesting. that's who we are. and,. if you want to sort of bury race you basically essentially said we want to advocate our position as the best country on earth. that is to say, we want not to be the best, we want to be ordinary. we want to be needed this. we want to stare and have our head in the sand and the ostrich is. so, have at it, but a lot of this is political posture. i mean there's more than half of one political party in the country that believes that the other political party are paris and sucked the blood of young children. and you're going, this is just a two party system in which we often disagree with each other about whatever. but we don't demonize the other people into some subhuman thing. it's just a function of an

out-of-control kind of media environment in which the aid of everyone is a lot to do. and the ego, and the super ego that keeps us and check. but our elections just said, you know what, we don't want election deniers. we don't want these people who think that these fabulous stories are true. maybe it's compelling, it gets a good laugh a, rallies but we basically want our democracy to continue. and we want to have, at least, a two party system. and we want to respect people who we disagree with just as we hoped they would respect us. so, my work has always been about telling a complex story that doesn't throw the baby out of the bathwater isn't so ravaging -- everybody's a villain. that's the same melodrama as the other end of the scale. and he just says, you have to be honest. >> yes, well ken burns, you're not a pastor but that was a sermon. and, i'm just gonna go ahead and say amen and have a great. >> amen. >> ken burns, thank you so much,

and up next, congress, be sure to tune, and by the way, on friday for more of my interview with the great ken burns. and, up next, congress finally moves to address at least one of the many injustices inflicted by european settlers on americas indigenous citizens. we'll be right back. right back. fit together with away things. ♪ ♪ that's our thing. ♪ ♪ let's dive in! but what about your back? it's fineeeeeeee! ugh! advil dual action fights pain two ways. advil targets pain at the source, acetaminophen blocks pain signals. advil dual action. thanksgiving is a wonderful

holiday for many reasons. i mean, it's a food holiday. come on but that doesn't mean that we should buy into the whitewash history. our kids are taught about the so-called, wonderful meals shared between the pilgrims and the native americans. typically left out is the fact that the tribe was nearly wiped out within a generation of that lovely get together because of the pilgrims. what's also glossed over, more so now, with republicans

rewriting american history is the other discriminatory and often violent actions taken against the indigenous people of this country. that includes treaties between the united states and the various tribes, almost always being violated. but now, this congress is finally taking steps to make amends for at least one of those broken promises made nearly 200 years ago. in 1835, the united states signed the treaty of new a quota, with the cherokee nation that led to an estimated 16,000 members forced off their lands in the selves. ultimately, leading to the trail of tears, the 1200 mile journey to what is now oklahoma. about 400 turkeys died on that trip. part of the treaty, included the promise that the cherokee nation shall be entitled to a delicate in the house of representatives of the united states whenever congress shall make provision for the state. and, of, course that never happened. but, last, week the house rules committee held a hearing in a new effort to allow kim tv, long time turkey nation official to be seated us a nonvoting delicate in the

house. she would be the first delegate from a tribal nation to ever serve there. >> far too long, indian tribes have not had as many champions. we have a few. and they are dynamic. so this treaty right would give us another seat at the table. whenever formulating policies and laws that impact us. so, addressing infrastructure, housing, health care, public safety but also uniquely supporting things that speak to our culture and how we are uniquely, such as protecting our native language. >> there are still a number of steps to be taken before this one unfulfilled promise to the indigenous people of this country can be fulfilled. , and it would truly be something that we can all be thankful for. and that is tonight's read out. have a happy thanksgiving. all in with chris >> tonight on all in. hayes starts right now. >> the presidents words were reckless. .