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well, this is it. this is where it all happened. imagine that. my garage door made history. this is where the big press conference took place. i don't even know how to explain 2020. it was a crazy, crazy year. >> bad things happen in philadelphia. bad things. >> former vice president joe biden will become the 46th president of the united states. >> i had no idea what we would be in for. >> i thought it was a failure.

i thought my friends were messing with me. >> a philadelphia landscaping company has been thrust into the national spot light. >> the entire thing was supposed to be anonymous. >> it put me in shock to see my name on the president's twitter. we probably got thousands of calls. >> you have 900 -- >> we had a lot. >> i remember, did we make a mistake? >> way too many trees. here's the other thing. and i think we'll discuss this with the board when we have zoom. >> my name's marie siravo. i'm 65, and i'm the president of four seasons total landscaping in north east philadelphia. we do grounds maintenance and irrigation, and seeding, flowers, snow removal, kind of boring. >> you have a phone call. >> i think the most challenging

part of starting the business and being in business is being woman-owned. nobody took you serious. >> you're on the property. you have powers. our other maintenance men on other properties, they connect with us. we help them, they help us. >> if i had a dollar for every time i got asked, did i have a husband. >> i have a wonderful husband. he just had his business, and i had mine. this is my life. other than my family, this is my entire life. >> we want to make sure that if we do purchase this, it's meeting our needs, and that we don't now also need another building. >> i have three boys. mike was the youngest. mike took on the general manager role. i had to let go a little bit, because i want my hands in everything. >> how many people get the chance to go to work every day with their mother? >> the first thing we do is fix

everything with food. this is port of our italian culture. >> some days are like phenomenal. and some days, she can't figure out how to use the printer and it's frustrating. >> mike, i need some help. >> we have some days where we lock and he forgets i'm still his boss but i try not to use that card because i need him to learn everything that is in my head. >> i started from the bottom, being a laborer of everything to basically working under the supervisor and shadowing him, and i pretty much worked from the ground up to where i am now. get, it ground up? [ laughter ] >> other than that, that's not scheduled work. >> so basically, mike and shawn, they run the daily operations. >> i really do depend on mike. we're wart ners with his mother in this business. shawn and i met when we were in college. and he was an upper class men. i looked up to him as like a

role model. he was almost like a big brother to me. >> mike and i have been through a lot together. both personally and professionally. we are both in recovery, which is a big thing we have in common. >> if you can do it with somebody else who has the same goals as you do, to become a better person on a daily basis, it makes it easier. >> they're like two old souls, they work together so well. i know they both have the company's best interests at heart. sometimes it takes a little, i just have to back off, and he comes around. so is this what people want to hear about in this documentary? >> the rafts white house has been called for pennsylvania. >> confusing pennsylvania. >> president trump is still leading in that state by 108,000 votes. >> today's election, it wasn't clear and it is like everybody wanted to know. >> philadelphia became kind of ground zero for the election battle.

>> the convention center in the center, it is where all of the votes get counted. crowds started gathering outside. trump supporters gathering outside. biden supporters. and they're facing off against each other across the state. >> people were dretsing up as the constitution. people were dressing up as mailboxes. holding signs saying we the people. progressive, the conservative, in one place, literally two streets outside the convention center. >> trump's legal team composed of corey lewandowski and pam, pam goes to address the crowd, and the count every votes protest, which is right across the street, turn up the music really, really loud. ♪ >> so you cannot hear a word that pam says because it is completely overwhelmed by the sounds of beyonce. >> everybody was fighting at each other. every posting, tweet, and instagram you saw, people were arguing, and it just was very

uneasy. and then the phone call. >> my phone rang around 8:45 a.m. i was in a men's bible study in doylestown, pennsylvania. >> hello? >> so i didn't answer, and then my phone immediately rang again. so i excused myself and walked outside. and it was a trump staffer. they were asking if we would be amenable to them having a press conference at four seasons total landscaping. i just thought why not? >> by about 9:45, the deal was sealed. it's just insane. out of all places, it's here. >> we're a landscaping company. we're experts in ground maintenance, irrigation, seeding, planting, not press conferences. co nferences. an. ♪wow, uh-huh♪ advantage: me!

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suddenly this tweet comes through from donald trump, lawyer's press conference at four seasons philadelphia, 11:00 axe. i sprang into action, gathered all my stuff, made vocals to the editor. >> i jump in my car and go to the four seasons hotel in downtown philadelphia. >> at the door, when the second tweet came through, four seasons landscaping. philadelphia. i think my initial reaction was one of utter confusion. >> like of course it's there, there's landscaping there, so i said oh, yes, it's the four seasons hotel, it's the entrance area, with the landscaping. >> my assumption was that he mushed key pad somehow and said landscaping. >> are they coming to you or are they coming to me. >> trump deletes the second tweet and a third tweet comes in and it says big press conference today in philadelphia at four seasons total landscaping.

>> why the president wants to hold a press conference at a landscaping company. >> this story starts with donald trump tweeting there would be a press conference saturday morning at the four seasons in philadelphia. no, not the hotel. but the four seasons total landscaping. it remains unclear whether the trump campaign booked the whole thing in error or not. >> why did you book this place? it was just a head scratcher. this was just the beginning of how surreal this event was. it's not prominent. why is it here? i mean you had more questions than you could possibly have answered. with trump, it is always difficult to get answers about the truth. sometimes it was because people didn't know the answers, often it was because they were lying, and i spent weeks and weeks interviewing everybody i could, and hitting dead end after dead end after dead end. >> nobody really knew how they ended up at a land scaping place. in the part of town that, you know, normally is not where

campaigns host these things. and i set out to try to answer what i thought was a simple question, what happened, and the longer i dug into it, the crazier and crazier it was. >> they held a press conference at the loading dock of the land scaper. here's what it looked like. that's quite an image. projects power. obviously, they screwed up. they called the wrong place. and they just said let's go with it. >> we are in an industrial strip. with a crematorium across the street, and an adult video and book store up the street. there was a level of excitement among our staff that we would be hosting the president's campaign staff here. but that was quickly followed by dread. >> an obvious screw-up in booking but they all played along, pretended that was the master plan. >> there are two different theories really that i had, and

that other people had as well, one, i thought that maybe they had someone, someone thought that they could book the four seasons hotel, someone on the campaign made the president think that it was a possibility that it would be held there, and that, you know, once you tweeted that, they googled around and found that the closest thing called four seasons to the four seasons philadelphia happened to be this land scaping place. the other theory i had was a perfect storm of minor screw-ups from various people at various levels of the campaign, and somehow, maybe through a connection, or an accident, they ended up here. >> i met the campaign staff here at about 9:30. it was a pretty quick setup, obviously you saw what was on tv. i'm pretty proud of the space that we were able to create in such a small amount of time. i mean it was a landscaping construction yard. >> normally, you might have police outside on the perimeter

but it was just private security. and they asked us to put our news organizations down on a clipboard and then they would call us in. and they made us look like it might be exclusive. like we night not all get called in. every time they called a news organization, the six to eight trump supporters would boo. >> we request that the republican information -- >> i think the biggest part for me was seeing giuliani like pull up in two black suburbans and i thought i was dreaming. nobody famous has ever been here. and it was almost like in slow motion. like him walking into the office. >> i actually wasn't going to come here and i got a phone call from my son anthony and he said mom, this is bigger than we think, and he sends me a picture while i'm talking to him. and rudy is sitting at my desk and the plaque in front of my desk says boss laddie.

and i looked at my husband, and i said we got to get over here. >> we demand a fair election. >> there was a crowd of people, both biden and trump supporters were there. they were going back and forth with each other. and then the cops showed up and the entire front road was shut down. that's when it kind of got like very nerve-wracking for me. >> it was just overwhelming. so i just looked around, i looked at everybody, i tried to figure out who everybody was, the press conference was about to start, i stood on top of the trailer so i could see, and i just watched. >> in the final weeks of the trump campaign, officials told me that keeping rudy busy became like a full time job, they had to device places to send him, specific aides to keep with him, and that would make it so that

he was not kind of running wild, creating whack problems for them. >> rudy giuliani is undermining the confidence in the american election system. and therefore undermying our national security. >> rudy giuliani was considered to be a great force of law and order. he was one of the heroes of 9/11 and i think that is why it was so suburbing to watch him unraffle, and to watch him to debase himself in support of this guy who he thought he was better than. >> by the way do you have any idea that the state department -- >> the law -- >> shut up, you don't know what you're talking about. you don't know what you're talking about, idiot. >> he is kind of a mess. but he was always and. and he was always lawyer and that was the only thing that seemed to matter to the president >> he he is a great guy. he knows this is a witch hunt. that's what he knows. he's seen a lot of them. >> rudy followed the press coverage very closely and he was very aware of what the view of him was in mainstream circles.

>> he was not nothing but respectful -- he was nothing but respectful to us when he was here, shook our hands, took the pictures, greeted all of the cops but you know, i think going on tv, i don't know if, you know, something changes. >> he once told me, my view of my legacy is, quote, fuck it. >> wow, what beautiful day, thank you. thank you for coming. so i'm here on behalf of the, on behalf of the trump campaign, as an attorney for the president, to describe to you the first part of a situation that is extremely, extremely troubling. >> so rudy giuliani comes out and launches into this speech about how the election was stolen, and how there are very grave allegations of fraud. he has witnesses behind him. >> people who have seen alleged

fraud, people who will be testifying in lawsuits, he presents this guy darryl brooks, and we learned that he exposed himself to children underaged. >> it came clear quickly that there was nothing there, there was no big revelation, he wasn't exposing something that took place in philadelphia, the election wasn't stolen. >> while rudy was speaking, i was out off to the side with mike and marie and we looked at each other and in awe of how long this is going on. >> i know you won't accept it because of your hateful biases but let's see if you can start thinking rationally. could some of those ballots been manufactured in advance by the democratic machine in philadelphia? it wouldn't be the first time he did it. >> i didn't think anybody took this really serious. >> how could i possibly tell you if there is fraud or no fraud. >> and somebody says, yells out, you know they've called the election for biden.

>> who was it called by? >> all of it. oh, my goodness. all of the networks. wow. all of the networks. >> all the networks. when did the net works decide the election? something to that effect. and we're thinking all the time. networks call the elections all the time. >> you can see the ripple around the crowd of journalists as they try to figure out what to do and i'm standing here thinking the same thing, do i have to stands here and listen to rudy giuliani, or go back to philadelphia where people are celebrating the election and people start to pack up their stuff. >> many of them had to leave. because the primary story wasn't that rudy giuliani was challenging the election results, the story was that biden had just won the presidency. if somebody asked me, where were you, when they called the election for joe biden, i say, well, i was in the parking lot

of four seasons total land scaping. >> thank you. >> the president's lawyer left, as the news came in that joe biden had been declared the victor. perhaps this is why they chose the industrial estate. they wouldn't have been heard or welcomed here in downtown philadelphia. a city in a state which delivered donald trump the white house four years ago, pennsylvania is now the state that pushed joe biden over the line. >> i just thought, sure, we said yes, and it was going to be over. period. >> we would have done this for either political campaign. we just wanted to be helpful. >> and we just had no idea what we were in for. >> did you see my press conference today? it was at the four seasons. >> yes. >> but it was a landscaping company called four seasons. was that a mistake? >> what? no. >> we heard from all different

types of media outlets, and people wanting to know more about what happened. >> i got calls from the "washington post." >> chicago times. >> "the new york times." >> "usa today". >> yahoo news. >> netflix. >> hul zbluchld business insider. >> nbc. >> nbc. >> fox. >> cnn. >> the b bc. started seeing that this was further and it was going into europe. >> german newspapers, irish newspapers, you name it, they were all calling. >> my email has not stopped. are you getting emails request? >> nonstop. >> you are? >> yeah, it's insane. >> it was supposed to be anonymous. >> that's why i said yes. >> otherwise, if i thought it was turning into this, i would have thought twice. >> on the day after the press conference, it was nothing but chaos. we couldn't even use the office phone for two weeks because it never stopped ringing. >> you couldn't even get a thought process, let alone answer them. >> you have 1,010 new messages

of which three are urgent. >> four seasons total landscaping, i understand there is a press conference. >> deleted. >> thank for being a part of our democracy. >> deleted. >> deleted. >> you are a traitor. >> deleted. >> new message, 39. >> the things they're saying about us is amazing. i just, i can't even believe this. okay, guys, wait until you hear this one. there's a big conspiracy theory, we're burning ballots across the street at the crematorium. people's minds, they're just delusional. >> that was one of the hardest parts, i never had to deal with that level of hate. i'm talking hundreds and hundreds of emails. i just got. basically saying to go f yourself, going to burn down

your building, it created a lot of fear of what the future holds for four seasons total landscaping. >> it's frightening. because 28 years could go down the tubes. i remember asking my husband joe, are we going to survive this? are we going to get out of this in one piece? people don't get it, being in business is not a picnic. i remember them coming to take my car in the middle of the night, bringing a generator home because they shut my electric off, because i couldn't cash my checks, i had a tough time borrowing money, when i bought this building, i had to put my whole self through the bank to get the mortgage so i had a shot of losing both places. >> do i want to see something that she built just disappear? or was i going to keep the legacy going? >> trying to operate a business through all of this, i don't

even know what word to use to describe this. >> people were taunting us. laughing at us. mocking us. and we needed to figure out a way to let them all know that we were in on the joke, and that we were laughing, too. >> oh, the networks. >> when you surround yourself with good people, good things happen. i think it started to turn when michael and sean started to run with this on instagram and facebook, and they made a joke out of everything, because it was funny to us, after, that they picked us, out of everybody in the world, they picked our place. >> if this whole thing blew up, i would recover from it. i would go and work somewhere else. but a family business that was 28 years in the making might not recover from something like this. and i felt responsible because these people are my family. >> understanding the joke and being in on it, there's just like almost a water fall of memes. >> we got put into a corner and we used our humor to get us out

of it. we were making thousands of people laugh all over the entire, not only nation, but world. >> it went from being majority negative and getting hate to then the total opposite overnight. >> they ended up doing this in kind of a rinky dink parking lot, no offense to the landscaping company, the real winner wasn't the campaign, who got to use it for free, it is the total landscaping company which has come out on top, ownering social media over the last month. >> like entrepreneurs, true entrepreneurs, we wanted to capitalize on this international attention and sell t-shirts. >> we went from being a landscaper to selling merchandise. we just started filling orders day and night. >> we had done approximately $1.5 million in sales revenue. that's a lot of t-shirts. we have been getting a lot of fan mail, people have been sending us christmas cards with our zoom background on them. >> can you believe somebody made

this? they made us our own lego set. >> there was a i don't ramma of our company in berlin, that amazed me. who would want this? >> somebody made a virtual reality four seasons. we had people showing up on our doorstep, knocking, asking for t-shirts, we even had one employee that was leaving and somebody offered them $50 for the stained sweaty t-shirt off their back. >> we had hundreds of visitors coming in the first couple of days following our social media revamp. >> suddenly, we had fans. it was surreal. >> would you look at all of these people out here. >> this is every day. this is insane. >> people have referred to us as a philly landmark. we've had so many families out front -- >> we even had two sister, one lived in bethlehem pennsylvania, the other in new york city, and they met here with a blanket and a picnic basket, and had their

thanksgiving dinner together here. i really think that the four seasons hotel thing was a blessing for us. if our name had been marie's landscaping, none of this would have happened. >> well, the team at four seasons total landscaping appears to have taken this in stride, go online now, and you can buy a range of make america rake again, and lawn and order merchandise. >> i was september to the four seasons hotel, my reporting concluded that nobody from the trump campaign or anybody from the trump campaign had reached out to the four seasons hotel about hosting any kind of event. >> i love the narrative that it was a mistake and they meant to book the four seasons hotel. >> there was no amazing, this is exactly where the press conference was supposed to be. >> they had surveyed some areas along the i-95 corridor, and our site was one of the ones that they determined would be secure with quick access on and off the highway. >> and it was free. that's another important thing. the trump campaign blew through

$1.1 billion. they were near broke. before the presidential election. they didn't have any money. and that's why it couldn't have been at the four seasons hotel. they would have charged them. >> that is why it was at four seasons total landscaping. it was a side track. because they didn't want to do it anywhere else. >> this has given me something that i can't even explain to you. it is worth more than money. this was not about money. at all. this was about our story. >> it's an american underdog story. i think we were able to turn something that appeared to be disastrous for a small business into something positive. >> before the press conference, four seasons total land scaping was struggling. almost like living from like pay check to paycheck. going from just being a local city landscaping company, to now being globally recognized, it's

amazing. but we're just honored to be able to give back. being able to help the next person out. we did a toy drive this christmas with toys for tots. me and sean went in ourselves to deliver at the hospital. >> thank you, ladies, so much. i really appreciate it. >> for them to get that joy, that was the best part for me. you know. i'm very proud of myself for that. >> i want you to take over this. >> yes, i got it. >> we're at the end of the line for me and my career. but i know when i hand the keys over to michael, he's got it. he's proved himself. michael has shown every day how much he's grown as an individual, as a father, as a husband, as a son. >> she's a phenomenal mother. she's always there to support me. it is like always having somebody with their hand on your

back pushing you to greatness. >> for him to step into my shoes and take over my role, i have so much faith in him. i know he can do anything. >> my distinguished guests, my fellow americans, this is america's day. this is democracy's day. a day of history and hope, renewal and resolve. a crucible for the ages. america's attested to the new. and america has risen to the challenge. . the challenge. the most amazing thing in my life has happened. i'm in a super bowl commercial. >> looks good, guys. success. the right place, the right time.

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conferences. >> why would the president want to hold a press conference at a landscaping company? >> it was a pretty quick setup. you obviously saw what was on tv. it was a landscape construction yard. >> wow, what a beautiful day. thank you. >> we just had no idea what we were in for. >> oh, my goodness. >> all the networks. >> i remember asking, did we make a mistake? >> we have a lot of haters. >> you have 1,010 new messages. >> it created a lot of fear of what the future holds for four seasons total landscaping. >> we got put into a corner and we used our humor to get us out of it. >> oh, the networks. >> we made a joke out of everything, because it was funny to us. >> it's an american underdog story. on the morning of november 7th, 2020, then president donald trump sent out a series of tweets announcing that his campaign would be holding a press conference at the four seasons in philadelphia. not the four seasons hotel.

but four seasons total landscaping. the family-owned business located in north philadelphia industrial park, just off of i-95. it became host to one of the most surreal moments of the 2020 election, and the subject of the four seasons total documentary. the director of that documentary, christopher statute, the owner of four seasons total land scaping, marie siravo and her son and director of operations, michael, all joining us now. it is good to have all of you with us. . this was an absolutely incredible documentary. i cried, i laughed, i felt sorry for you, i was rooting for you at the end, and i am so happy to finally have the ability to talk to you. marie, i just wanted to start with you and see how you're doing in all of this. how has the journey been for you? how is the business and family doing now? >> everybody is doing great and i'll be honest with you, this was the ride 6 of a lifetime. i'm at the end of my career, and i'm happy that i made the decision i made, while we were

in, you know, when we were initially called to, you know, to hold the press conference here, and i never could have imagined that it would have turned out like this, but it has been such a year for us, because we have had one thing after another has happened. people have, they have embraced us around the country, and around the world, and messages we've gotten, i couldn't be happier, and then to, you know, to get to a year and have a documentary is, it's just amazing for us. we're thrilled. >> chris, let's talk about that documentary for a moment. how did you decide on doing a documentary about this? how did you connect with the family? and how did you manage to get through to them with all of the thousands of phone calls and messages that they were receiving on any given day? >> well, obviously, the whole world wanted to know the mystery. union, why did the president's

lawyer hold a press conference at a land scaping company. so clearly, this was this big question, the million dollar question that needed to be solved. and yes, outlets from all over the world were reaching out to them, but actually had sort of an inside track. as it turned out, a friends of mine, is brothers with sean middleton, the director of sales at four seasons, and so i actually was able to get on the phone with them, before anyone else did, and when we got on the phone together, i got the sense that every outlet wanted to know, you know, why did this happen, why was the press conference held there, and for me, i was a lot more interested in actually getting to know them as people, and seeing how their experience has been, just having their world turned upside down. i mean they were such a fish out of water. and for me, the conflict just called to me as a film maker, you know, what the hell happened? >> michael, i wanted to play for you this clip from the documentary, just after the

press conference, with rudy giuliani. watch this moment. >> that was one of the hardest parts for me. i never had to deal with that level of hate. i'm talking hundreds and hundreds of emails. i just got. basically saying to go f yourself, we're going to burn down your building. it created a lot of fear of what the future holds for four seasons total landscaping. >> so michael, the future has played out a little bit. tell us, are you still getting messages like that? how do you handle the messages if at all that you're receiving now? >> complete opposite messages. they're filled with like love and appreciation, for the the way that we spun this, and making it almost comedic. basically, if anybody comes, stops through here, we hand them stickers, t-shirts, whatever we can, because it's crazy to each think that there's, for us, that there's fans, you know, that's the hardest part for me, it's

just like there's actual fans of a philadelphia-based landscaping company here, you know, it's just hard, it's still hard for me to grasp, but i always tell people, if you're in the area, stop through, we'll take pictures, we'll do what we can if we have time, i love it. >> christopher, you had such an intimate insight into making this documentary. what surprised you the most while you were making this film? >> i mean i think to mike's point, the thing that surprised me the most was this outpouring of love that four seasons received after the press conference. i mean they sold $1.5 million worth of t-shirts. i mean that's just incredible. you can actually still buy those t-shirts now. people were making christmas cards, featuring the garage doors, the zoom background, and you know, the two sisters that came to four seasons, to have their thanksgiving there, clearly, this moment resonated with people, and it created just

such an outpouring of love, and suddenly, four seasons total landscaping sort of meant something to people, and it became this meme that people could actually share with, together, and it kind of created this online community. >> i'm going to go out on a limb and say there is probably going to be some wedding proposal there at some point. let me ask you really quickly, marie, let me ask you about, let me ask you just though, because it has become such an iconic location, has any other political party or political campaign reached out to you to hold a political event there? and if so, what would you say? >> unfortunately, no other political campaign has approached us, but we would have said yes. because, you know, knowing where it got us here, and all of the excitement that we've had, we'd do it again, we would do it again. the outpouring, i mean, and the embracing that we've had, the way people have treated us, the end result was just, it may not

have been business enhancing but the treatment that we got, and truthfully, everywhere we go, somebody knows us, you know. it's exciting. it's really exciting. you work your whole life, and what a way to go out, you know, i'm at the end of my career, and this is just amazing to me that people stop me and say, you look like the girl from, the lady from four seasons. i am the lady from four seasons. and it's just funny. it is just, you know, it's amazing. >> michael, i know the feature of this company is so important to you, and your family, we heard christopher there talk about how you turned this bad situation in a positive one with the merchandise. have you given any thought about the future of the company and what you can do if you even plan on expanding it from beyond just doing landscaping, and now the merchandise, you know, perhaps even becoming an event space one day? >> yeah, i think like the main goal for me is to obviously create more jobs, keep running to the next level, that was

always my plan from prior to all of this excitement, and the conference. our niche is landscaping. it probably always will be. i'll do the same thing that i did the first time around, it is just take one day at a time, one week at a time and just kind of go from there. if something gets put in our opportunity to do something, yeah, i don't see why not. >> we're going to be rooting for you, for whatever you guys decide to do in the future. christopher stout, and michael and marie sivavo, thank you so much for this absolutely brilliant and wonderful documentary. up next, how the election initiative pushed by rudy giuliani at four seasons total landscaping became a defining belief among republican voters. the growth of the big lie, coming up next. n voters the growth of the big lie, coming up next maybe it's perfecting that special place that you want to keep in the family... ...or passing down the family business...

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this is a gross miscarriage of the process that would assure that these ballots are not

fraudulent. it's a fraud. an absolute fraud. >> i think there is a corrupt stolen election. >> i've never seen this amount of voter irregularity. >> the election is being stolen. the evidence is overwhelming. >> i'm not sure that every vote was counted, not in the right way. >> they say i lost. i think it was the election was rigged. >> how does anybody trust the election results? >> so the election lies pushed by the trump campaign at four seasons total landscaping in november of 2020 have only kept growing ever since. and joining me now to talk about that, one of the producers on four seasons total documentary, olivia neuce, the washington correspondent for new york magazine along with msnbc political analyst kimberly atkins, columnist for the boston globe. >> olivia, when we look at that time that rudy giuliani was standing there, peddling the allegations of voter fraud and that the election was stolen, just as the networks were calling the election for joe

biden, it almost seems comical, and you want to laugh at what you were seeing there, but given how this has now resonated among republicans, what does that moment in time mean for us as a country? >> one way to look at it is a break with reality, where people talk about, they were talking about the wheels being off of the trump white house, like there were wheels? so four seasons was not a breaking point. because things had been insane. if the election had been all about conspiracies for a long time. the administration had been about conspiracies. donald trump's entire political career was about conspiracies. but it was this kind of formal moment where they officially made conspiracies and insanity their strategy going forward.

and what was following, what followed that was the insurrection. so even though this was a hilariously weird historic event at this land scaping company, by mistake, or planning, there is still kind of a grimness to the whole thing, knowing that, you know, what came after. >> so kimberly, to that point, when you look at where the polling is today on this, you know, some polls suggest as much as 68% of republicans believe the election was stolen, they believe the big lie, it is even higher for people who use fox news as their main source of information, or who trust it, i think it's like in the low 80s, how do you begin to even counter the big lie, when you have that many people buying into it? >> it's difficult. and to be sure, this was amplified by donald trump and his campaign, but it goes back so much farther. we have to remember that this, the idea of the big lie, and why it was able to take hold, is because decades, lawmakers,

particularly republicans, have used this, this idea of protecting against fraud, fraud that's never existed, that's never been proven, in order to make voting more difficult, to pass laws with everything but, from stripping voters' names from polls, from requiring i.t. requirements where we know it is more difficult for black people, brown people, poor people to get them and they tend to vote democratic, that's been happening for a long time. you have the stripping of the voting rights act, where it happened even more. so it was sort of that, that was the kid ling, where donald trump's big lie was able to set afire and really lead to this. so it is a slow buildup. and that's why it is so much harder to fight back against now. >> and in the months leading up to this fateful day at four seasons total landscaping, the trump campaign was, trump was sort of throwing out different reasons why he would eventually lose, and once it became clear to him, i remember talking to advisers in the white house, and

the campaign, once he started to accept that it was a possibility, which took a really long time, given what the polls said, and how things were going in the country, with the coronavirus, he started to kind of amp things up with spitballing, things that were going wrong, who was taking the election from him, the fact that fraud was forthcoming basically, to give himself an excuse in the event that he did lose. >> and you talk about conspiracy theories, there was this one moment in the documentary that i think is very foreshadowing. let me play it for you. it is when marie starts receiving phone calls and messages and one of them was a conspiracy theory. watch. >> the things they're saying about us is like amazing. i just, i can't even believe this. okay, guys, wait until you hear this one. there's a big conspiracy theory. we're burning ballots across the street at the crematory. >> that seems like a harbinger of the conspiracy theory that we

are now inundated with around this election, because of moments like that. >> absolutely. i mean when there's no uniform source of information, information sources are diversified and when so much misinformation is just being fueled into this election, and the past several elections, that's exactly what happens. people believe what they want to believe. they believe even far-fetched things, as long as it confirms their own biases. and that's where you see that sort of thing run wild. and we're still seeing that today. people sort of dug in to their corners and believing whatever, whatever supports their side. >> kimberly atkins stohr, olivia nuzzi. thank you very much. we're keeping the conversation going online, use the hashtag four seasons total. so please join in. i'm ayman mohyeldin. good night.