i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to know how much their accident case is worth. let our injury attorneys help you get the best result possible. ♪ the barnes firm injury attorneys ♪ ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ happy friday. hope had a great holiday. whether you and yours gathered around the thanksgiving table

yesterday or maybe you're still gathered or gathering again around the leftovers, this is the time to give thanks and reflect on what we are grateful for. at the top of many of our lists this year democracy an of the defeat of scores of trump's hand-picked conspiracy-minded election de-ifying candidate in the mid terms. but what about the disgraced twice-impeached ex-president himselfle? what is he grateful for this year? it's hard to say. we know donald trump's big announcement that he's making a third run for president was met with a collective national shrug and groan at boast and then there's the early christmas president from attorney general merrick gar larngsd jack smith hard at work overseeing not one but two criminal investigations into the twice-impeached ex-president including trump's mishandling of classified materials at mar-a-lago. she spent more than 30 years at

heist levels of the intelligence community. she has briefed every american president since ronald reagan. shortly after the deadly insurrection, sue gordon made an extraordinary recommendation, cut off donald trump's intelligence briefings once he leaves office. she argued that trump simply posed too great of a national security threat. it was an unprecedented warning at the time, and thankfully the biden administration heed it had, so the news broke that trump had been hoarding highly classified documents in random are places in mar-a-lago we called in none other than sue gordon. >> what was donald trump like around classified documents? >> so it's a great question. listen, he was -- i think the first thing you need to know is the intelligence community always treated him as the president which meant we shared with him any and all information that we believed the president needed regardless of

classification so that's step number one. step number two is i think he was an interested consumer. he did not come into office nor during his time in office as i observed develop any particular understanding of the craft and discipline of intelligence, in other words, what is special about it. how does it differ from what you rode in "the washington post" and "new york times," as remarkable as those journalistic publications, are so he had access to it all. we briefed him all. he have was the president. he had his duties to carry out, but it was my experience that he didn't appreciate the particular nature of the discipline of intelligence so that made him not understand what was being protected, and i guess, any koeshlg the thing would i just say that is lost here is you can't tell what's classified or

important just by look at it. you can see something sensational, and that can be something that is openly vainly, an can you seat most mundane sentence and it is singularly indicative of some intention or some action, and so this idea that anyone can just casually assume what is really classified is just false, and the same thing would i say would go for the president. i just don't think that he acquired that appreciation. >> you said a bunch really important things. i want to try to unpack them. not understanding the craft, what he said publicly went beyond not understanding the crafts, and i assume by that you mean the -- the professionalism and the way all of the product is curated and culled and vetted before anything is presented to him, the partnerships and alipsz and people who risk their lives that create that informationful

of. that craft was lost on him. >> and how long it takes and who risks their lives in order to give us the information we need in order to provide both national and global security. you know, intelligence isn't opinion. intelligence is the discipline by which you take fundamentally uncertain information and work it so that the decision-makers can deal with it with a kind of certainty, but within each sentence there are untold years, untold risks and untold relationships that are buried within, and that in addition to the particular piece of information is what you're protecting, so when you don't understand that and you say, ah, i think that this is something that i can share and you've got to understand that you are potentially unraveling networks that have taken years to build and are at the cornerstone of

global security. >> were you ever involved in having to do a spill assessment based on concerns that he shared something? i know the one that is really public-facing is this oval office meeting with sergei lavrov and h.r. mcmaster, ran did not walk that he had not endangered allied sources and methods with lavrov flu were other incidents, he would tweet out photos. he was constantly trying to push sensitive information into the public domain where it served him. >> so any time information was shared outside the channels that would normally be used to control it, we routinely assessed what the impact of that would be. now it is true that a sitting president does have many authorities to make decisions in

his role about national security, and, nicole, i just think that this is one of the things that gets so lost. we have access to classified information to serve of the nation's interests. individuals when they have access to that, and especially when they have access to classified and declassified things as the president did, as i did and some others, you are a steward of the nation's interests, and so you need to be considering those interests when you make every decision, all right. so when a sitting president makes those decisions, that is in his role as the president a decision about what's in the nation's interests. that's a entirely different role when you're a private citizen as he is and i am now. that doesn't mean that at some point the nation couldn't say, gosh, we need the former president or, gosh, we need sue gordon to have access to

information anew, but when you're no longer in office you're no longer the keeper of the nation's interests an cops keptly your responsibility changes. >> sue, he's clearly talking about declassification in the context of personal criminal liability, not 9 context that you're describing, a state interest, right? >> yeah. so there's just no -- you know, the act of declassifying is not a personal act. it's not an act for preference. it's not an act because i want to or because i want to do something. it's because it serves either the national or the public interest, and it's a process that you go through that you work with expert to say if i declassify this, what will the impact be, and can we bear it? it isn't something casually done regardless of whether you have the authority to do so or not, and it isn't in order to protect yourself or to ariana grandized yourself. it's an entirely different thing, and so this discussion about authority to declassify,

it is not for personal reasons even if it temporarily resides in a person ever. >> and that's the only way it's being discussed. he couldn't have broken the law because he had the authority. no one in the national security, not even establishment, but no one ever touched a national security volinterested whether you have the authority or not they interest in what has been jeopardized, and they wonder when you ride -- and not just the picture for the shock value, but when you read the programs that may have been jeopardized. can you take us inside what averill haines is likely to undertake doing ate settlement if you were still there? >> the act of the class fug system has some specific guidelines. it's all about the value and

special physical tie and/or the sources and methods used to acquire it, and those have levels of -- protections implied depending on how exquisite either the information or the access is, so i'm sure that team is going through every document, making sure that it understands which pieces of it represent that kind of classified information and then looking at the impact of loss that usually comes down to what advantage are we deriving from it whether it's in partnership in method ol which have or in the information itself, and they are breaking it down. they are breaking it down by paragraph. this is not going to be an exercise where they just blanket overclassify something. they will look at each piece of information. there are professionals who look at classification and

classification levels and they will be coming through this. >> the other thing and they know that i don't think i'm talking about much. our adversaries and competitors have a voice in this. don't be mistaken. foreign threat acorthowho "now" that information that we people important has been, was recently in an unsecured location. they had the wherewithal an interesting in going that and they will be looking as that two so we're talking about it just -- the reap why we have the rules and the reason i rote the op-ed is you don't evenly has to

be a going offer an individual that that -- and that our adversaries and competitors will take any advantage that is a much lover. >> when you wrote the op i had with the warning, lou did you know that he would be a national security risk. i think part was how important it is that you understand that people will be coming after you, and they are pretty slirks and you don't even have to conspire with them in order for them to be able to work magic to try to get your information, so we had

a president that had access to everything, who had in my estimation not a really complete understanding of what he was protecting, and his engagements works he works with, you know. the fact that he has foreign businesses knowing that he would be in situations where he could be bumped by adversaries who would want the information he had. i mean, you just would do that, and all you had to do was apply the need to n.o.w. know and is apolite -- and the remarkable thing about this game is if the nation decided they needed to know, there would be nothing that would provely keep him from improperly receiving the

information that he's been storing. >> i know and have spoken with someone who has worked with you, a former u.s. intelligence official who said if he were a normal president and he said i need thinks things, can you build me a skiff and accepted down a briefer so that i can stay current on these topics, that might very well have been arranged for him. he may have committed egregious crimes. i don't know if you've -- it's clear that everything that you're talking about is in the national security bucket, but the questions only when you read through how hard they tried and how many lawyers who may not face charges for lying to the fbi and who lied for him? when you try to profile the motive of that, what explanations do you come up with? >> okay so the first thing i say there is zero defense, i cannot

imagine a defense for the situation in which we find ourselves. there's just -- there's just none. >> wow. >> there's no justification, no excuse, no defense, zero, from a national security and from a person involved. motivation are is a much harder thing to ascribe, and i'm usually loathe to say what i think other people are thinking. my experience is that the former has his agenda, and he will use whatever is at his dispose al to chance that.

p he has had at his disposal for a lock period of time information that if he used that information to advance an agenda item, it could have devastating cons concerns to national security, but i -- i can't think of a simpler way to say why i think that this moment is so difficult, and that's because there's no justification hand knowing who he is and that he doesn't fully understand but he may not decide to protect if he wanted to doing is. i'm glad we've hard, so far to recover the information but i feel like it's been essentially in the public domain for a long time. >> what you were describing is absolutely hair-raising and i

want to make sure that i understand it. the "new york times" is reporting that he packed the boxes and even if he didn't understand it he was interested in what he was interested in. what you're laying out is the cop duct and recklessness which has come of the most secret classified firlts, not because of what and if his agenda is served by jeopardizing those thing, he will pursue it? >> i would hope, and i always hope. that the president understands the responsibility that he carries and one of the responsibilities is the protection of national security information, so i will hope that as he conducts the rest his life he understands the responsibility that he he to

protect that energies. but i don't know, no why -- for an period of time the opportunity existed if he forgot the responsibility that he has for the rest his life to protect the information that he has access to. i would hope that he does, but the circumstance is wore com. >> did you see him wrestle with those two things trying to remember the office that he held and trying to pursue his own agendas? >> i don't know that i ever thought about it in those terms, but i think where i start when i say i think the intelligence commit always briefed him responsibly and what i mean by that is he was the president of the united states and we treated

him as such. the assumption is always that the president of the united states -- united states understands his sponks ant taking and what i'm going do with that information that i hope that it kicks in again. >> do you feel that what you've read in the affidavit and the filing are the first time you've seen him as a threat to u.s. national security and the intelligence community? >> everyone that has access to special information and holds position is a target. anyone who forgets that and acts outside the security are rules that are set up in order to help them protect that presents a threat whether it's a purposeful

one or whether it's an inadvertent up. so if you forget that you're a target and the you don't follow the rules, you've opened yourself and consequently us up. >> did trump see him as a target, sump police due to what he just accessed, having accuracies to our most sensitive see yet and programs? >> again. i'm always hesitant to say how someone thinks about themselves. i believe the president thought that he was above a lot of rules because he didn't need them, but -- but i also would never presume to know what was in someone's heart >> when you read that he traveled with boxes of

classified materials on foreign trips and they were carted from hotel to hotel room. i traveled the world with his national security veras and i had a stroke when i rode this. it's another case when you take a foreign trip and the technology was totally different. we didn't always have our blackberries at every so much. what were -- >> in his official capacity he had a lot of rungs of professionals around him to kept him element, to protect the information that he possesses.

know go back to what i said, nicole, there's a rone why you held your remember is that our adversaries -- our adversaries recognize the value of not only individual but what the individual has and especially physical documents, and you always worry, and they are sophisticated services with lots of ways, technical and human, to go after things, so i -- i just think anyone who suggests that this situation of highly classified documents being out of a security facility relatively unprotected for a long period of type. just didn't understand that there are actually people out

there who would do us harm and it actually doesn't take complicity on the part of the actor in order to provide that opening for that damage, and so when i say this problem and lack of understanding is -- i think you need to be extremely vigilant. >> vinl violent not a word you would ascribe to donald trump when it comes to protecting classified documents. coming up, my conversation with one of the key members of the january 6th select committee adam kickeder and what lies ahead for fellow republican kevin mccarthy hand what the january 6 select committee still has up its sleeve. don't go anywhere. ll has up its sleeve. don't go anywhere. it was just claire and i. she was still recovering from her brain surgery. and side effects of that surgery meant that she had to relearn how to walk and how to speak. ♪♪

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freezes and eliminates treated fat for good. no needles, no incisions. discuss coolsculpting with your provider. some common side effects include temporary numbness, discomfort and swelling. you've come this far... coolsculpting takes you further. visit coolsculpting.com it was a headline that certainly got our attention around here. quote, donald trump has proven himself woefully unfit to hold office that he sullied and has shown that he cannot be trusted to put the american's people

interests ahead of his open. that is from an op-ed written by congressman adam kinzinger, one of the key members of the january 6th select committee. i had the opportunity and privilege speaking with adam kinzinger about speaking with president trump and husband kroips and the red wave that failed to materialize in the mid terms. tell me what you make of the results on tuesday and if you have any -- you know, i know you don't look back very much, but do you wish you had stayed in the ring? was this election result different than what you thought it might have been when you decided to retire? >> let me say first the wishing side of things. i want to be very clear. i got drawn out of my district by democrats in illinois. they drew me out. now that said, i'm not sure i was going to run again anywoman. i've been in congress for 12 years, and that's a long time, and i'm really passionate about focusing on this fight broader more nationwide because when you're in the house you're dealing, you know, every day the -- the messaging votes and

all this kind of stuff. now in terms of the results though, it was fantastic. i mine -- we all expected or i -- that this was going to be a red wave on anything like that, the january 6th issue kind of popped the bubble and i think the paul pelosi attack and the dobbs agreement and gen-z turned out and we had a little defensive democracy. the bottom line is we have to think differently in how to defend democracy. i'm talking about an uncomfortable alliance. republicans and democrats you might have to actually be friends a little bit to defend democracy here. it doesn't mean that you have to agree on everything, but let's think outside of the box. secretary of state races, those were the front lines hand will be the front lines in defensing

democracy in 2024. every candidate i endorsed won. i think only one of donald trump's won. we worked on the madison cawthorn race and other race saying luke live in a republican district. if it's one of those it's ryan red vote in the republican primary and vote for somebody who believes in democracy and we turned out 4,000, 5,000 people in that race so that's how we have to think, nicole. outside of the -- but what are the areas we can target that will make a difference? it understands that trump crossed lays for you and liz daini. i has happy to fight alongside democrats to protect them.

why do you think vp people feel that he didn't cross. part of it is it -- if someone says you have had enough of donald trump you get kiksd out and then the anti-trumpers versus the democrats is saying i'm not going to deal with, and the other thing on a moral sper perspective, you can convince yourself. >> nor to one again and i think it's sheer cowardice. i remember i had just gotten out of iraq and it was in 201. i remember skiing if i'm going

to have -- i needed to take care -- it sounds innovative but it's so truth. he swear an eat to the tonight and the every time my district says -- my oat is not to my district. it's to the constitution, and sometimes that's going to be hard and everybody forgets that, unfortunately. >> including kevin mccarthy. liz cheney seemed to have a special hatred of how he has betrayed his oath. do you share that? >> oh -- i'm going to till. kevin is the biggest disappointment probably of any friend i've ever had. he was a friend, you know. before the election i started to-ins he was defensing donald trump more than he was defensing his own members of congress, but he is the guy, he is the entire rone donald trump is still a

political figure because if the caucus, in the republican caucus after leave it 26 there this was going to go and the second geffen mccarthy showed up to many bag low if i guess we're doing this donald trump is staying. kevin cab for think because -- history will not be kind to sflim what do you think the intervening event was that he said to you on the tapes and the impaempt wasn't fast enough? he was an advocate of the 25th amendment because it would get rid of him faster and that single-handedly revived trump. >> it's all money. he'll even say that it's all money -- i say we, the ten of us who voted for impeachment. we've kind of made our little

group, right, and somebody sent a picture at mar-a-lago the second this thing popped and said what is he doing? immediately there was a fund-raising thing up and all it came down to it's about raising money, and he always wants to become speaker. great, you may get the title, kevin, congratulations, it's going to be mid. >> how. he's going to be completely hostage. marjorie taylor greene says she doesn't kay knit and she heat kind of blm. if he gets to 218, we don't know what the majority will be and any pun of those people can did

i -- putting -- i call them the freedom club. the question is, motley. the puns who are west. p troutfully as moderates, we generally wanted to get along. we wanted to govern so it's aanfernee hardawayer for them to do it. the freedom club just wants to burn it all down. >> let that sink in. they want to burn it all down. more of my conversation with congressman adam kingszor -- kinzinger after the break and how dangerous cassidy hutchinson could be to the disgraced former president. we will be right back. be to ther president. we will be right back. by treating my skin and joints. along with significantly clearer skin, skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness,

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with donald trump blowing off the january 6th select committee subpoena and former vice president mike pence saying congress quote has no right, no right to his testimony, all eyes are on the house select committee as we wait for their final report, and on doj. i asked congressman kinzinger about that. i want to turn to some of the committee's work and your work on the committee. you guys got him. you had him. you tied him to the violence. >> yeah. >> you revealed if i called it, you know, three to you, you know, witness after witness after witness after witness in a testified to his knowledge that

he had bench defeated on election next night, witness after witness after witness that testified that the fake electors plot was illegal and that witness after witness after witness who testified to the specific knowledge of the insurrection being armed and dangerous and hum wanting to be there. what should doj do with all of that evidence? >> oh, look, i mean, so from the committee perspective the difficulty we always had is, you know, we have a limited time. we could probably investigate this for two more years and it's like what is kind of the end state of what the committee does. i think in my personal opinion going into the hearings even i was nervous. are people going to listen? do they care? we blew away my own expectations and we told the story that donald trump is responsible and knots just for the day of january 6th. that's a minor point. all the stuff leading up to it and the fact that nothing is changed since. he didn't sit in his office for 187 minutes on the 6th. he intentionally resisted

pressure to stop, it so what can we do? we're probably going to look at criminal referrals even though i'll be very clear those are pointless but it sends an important message if they do them. doj has the torch and the american people. the american people vote for people that actually honor their oath. that's what we're going to give you. that's your charge. the doj, they have more time, more tools, and they can enforce more things than we could, and i'm fairly certain -- i'm fairly certain that they are going to find some stuff whether it's this, whether georgia has something or down with the secret documents that he didn't have but he did. >> cassidy hutchinson was one of the committee's most important witnesses, and she today is testifying in the georgia investments how dangerous is she to donald trump? p. >> she's very dangerous. i mean, she came forward with, as you saw and specifically in

the hearings that we had and the hearing where she was solo, she was able to give us a lot of insight, that you know, people like steve bannon could have, you know, people that wouldn't come and talk to us, mark meadows still goes off and cassidy hutchinson will go down as the most important point in this and whether it is a her or people like alyssa fair yeah, would i even say my wife who worked in this administration, these republican women who worked for donald trump, each one of them have more courage than -- the men that work for donald trump are unwilling to speak out. if they do -- there's a like that we can't cross, that's

amazing at how courageous some of these young people are, and i don't think donald trump will skate too much from this stuff. >> why do you think it is that the women are more will to out his corruption and potential criminality? >> i don't know. you know, is it -- is it because, you know, the -- the men in his administration had still trying to plot and scheme and, you know, sop of these women can't do it. i don't know what it is but i just know that it is, but i know that they have a, normal claurify and vice president person, i'm he did what his job was and i just wonder for two years why didn't you speak out.

why -- you know what i think having served in the military. he left his men on the field, and they are all men and i've never seen that about. he left his most senior staff, you know, to their own devices with the witty and he doesn't show up. how do you evaluate that? >> i mean, look, i think trump is. you think will president pens i think -- he can kind of walk the nuance people who are anti-trump and awink and nod at them. remind them of january 6th. i'm not going to ask them to come sit before the committee. i'm sure that everything that the vice president knows we now know pause it is came through his nokes, but he obviously wants to run for prnts and, nicole, here's the interesting thing for me. if he would have fully divorced donald trump on january 7th and

then just had this moral clarity of that day, put out a new -- for the party, i think he would be the ron desantis. i think people would see him as terrorism enough nouch my disappointment. in this version of the republican party he could have inherit it had all. let me just remind you because you said your committee, you have no right to his testimony. do you have reaction to that? >> our committee is not ours. our committee is the american people's committee and we happen to be the nine members of congress plus our staff and this can't testimony for adam kizinger or the american people and frankly if you want to be doing this, it's up to you.

and for all those who say january 6th was nothing your kid and grand kid will not believe that. i'm going to guarantee you they will not believe, that and there's going to be a lot of people from running from they 3w4r50ed it in the first place. you captain lie to your kid when you never believed it. in it a way i file bad for these people because it's going to be embarrassing. >> you can not lie to your kids about january 6th. coming up for us,s in extremism, cleanse and crazy comparesy. comparesy.

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when we present our full findings, well recommend changes to laws and policies to guard against another january 6th. the reason that's imperative is that the forces donald trump ignited that day have not gone away. the militant, intolerant ideologies, the militias, the alienation and days next, the weird fantasies and disinformation, they are all still out there ready to go. disinformation, they are all still out there ready to go. >> we're back with republican congressman adam kinzinger i want to ask you about the weird fantasies and the alienation and the extremism and i wonder whether you think a

counterextremism approach to that can be successful without the republican party's >> i mean, in terms of, like, how to push back and things along that ndline, i mean, looki think what needs to happen -- and this is from the democratic perspective. i recognize i'm not a democrat. but you have to guard against the temptation tou say, well, donald trump is an authoritarian and republicans are authoritarian, we're going to also w be authoritarian or we'rt going to fight back with the same kind of fire. you k guys are better than that. trust me. buttr secondarily, when it come tose things like the qanon, thi idea that there is, you know, a cult drinking babies' blood, which is binuts, or that everyby that disagrees with you has to be a pedophile, we have to call that stuff out. i think one of theth things we learned as qanon grew, i actually spoke about -- i was thebo first member of congress speak out, at least republican.

and people were like, oh, you're just giving it oxygen. that was the old days. the oldas days when there were three television networks, you didn't want to give it oxygen. today, it was already out there huge. today we have toad counter that pushback with truth and also recognize thatut some people honestly know the truth and just don'ttr want to hear something different. or they knowhe -- they just -- they want to stay in their tribe. and it's going to take a psychologist, i think, to kind of teach t us how to get people out of that moment. >>pl you said you crossed the bridge when you came to -- if trump defied the subpoena, it feels like we're at the bridge. what's the decision for the committee? will you refer him? >> e?yeah, i don't want to get front of the committee's announcement on this. obviously we're aware. it's something we're taking very seriously. we've got to go through all the questions. i mean, he's e the former president of the united states. we have a limited time left on the committee becausete our charter basically ends at the end of this congress. so, we're working through that and we'll come forward with whatever that takes.

but look, i think it should be very important to beho noted, otherta presidents have come before congressional committees before. and donald trump said he'd be happy to come'd in. so, come on in. tell us what you think. >> what -- what is the new evidence that's been developed on the secret service? the committee, in its final public hearing, seemed to accuse two members of the secret service of lying. have those lies been cleared up? any referrals for them under consideration? >> yeah. again, i don't want to get out in front of what the committee is about to announce or going to announce or what are not announced because we're putting all this stuff together. i will tell you, the interesting thing is even as we're putting together our report, parts of the report, everything else, we are continuing this investigative line. i even was on a -- listened in on a deposition even today. there is somebody lying at the secret service. let's be very clear. there is some really kind of interesting goings on at least

with some of the people, and we're not going to let that go. the other thing, too, keep in mind, iske even whenever we can finish on the committee, if it is criminal in nature, doj could take d that or could, you know, see the report we put out and make a decision to go forward from there. >> our thanks to congressman adam kinzinger. quick break for us. we'll be right back. amnger quick break for us we'll be right back. mckenzie: eliza, she's the little ray of sunshine. her laugh is full of joy and love. i'm so blessed to be her parent.

brennon: i think she's the most beautiful girl in the world. you know i love her with everything in me and she's so tough. mckenzie: eliza is diagnosed with bilateral retinoblastoma at four months. it's cancer of the eyes. it's aggressive and it's fast growing and as a mom hearing that, i still cry, because you want to take away all of the pain and you don't want your kid to be sick, obviously. brennon: it just breaks you. and with what we've been going through, i don't know how we would have made it without st. jude. - st. jude children's research hospital works day after day to find cures and save the lives of children with cancer and other life threatening diseases.

mckenzie: the care that she's gotten at st. jude, it's seriously saved her life. - good job. mckenzie: and it's amazing that we don't receive any bills from st. jude. we only have to worry about eliza. we are so thankful that there are people out there who care and who give to st. jude so that we can care for our baby girl. - join with your debit or credit card right now and we'll send you this st. jude t-shirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. brennon: st. jude has given us hope. we're going to grow with her, and laugh with her, and make so many memories with her. and the people that donate money each and every month to st. jude, it's all because of them. - please call or go online and become a st. jude partner in hope right now. it is thanksgiving weekend, and so many of you are embracing

that age old holiday tradition of going to the movies. i had the pleasure of sitting down with my dear friend, whoopi goldberg, to talk about a film she spent years willing into existence. it is called "till," and it is the powerful heartbreaking story of emmett till and how his mom, maimmy, took the tragedy, the horror of her son's brutal murder. the conversation after the break. murder the conversation after the break. to a child, this is what conflict looks like. children in ukraine are caught in the crossfire of war, forced to flee their homes. a steady stream of refugees has been coming across all day. it's basically cold. lacking clean water and sanitation. exposed to injury, hunger. exhausted and shell shocked from what they've been through. every dollar you give can help bring a meal, a blanket, or simply hope

to a child living in conflict. please call or go online to givenowtosave.org today with your gift of $10 a month, that's just $0.33 a day. we cannot forget the children in places like syria, born in refugee camps, playing in refugee camps, thinking of the camps as home. please call or go online to givenowtosave.org today. with your gift of $10 a month, your gift can help children like ara in afghanistan, where nearly 20 years of conflict have forced the people into extreme poverty weakened and unable to hold herself up, ara was brought to a save the children's center, where she was diagnosed and treated for severe malnutrition. every dollar helps. please call or go online to givenowtosave.org today. with your gift of $10 a month, just $0.33 a day. and thanks to special government

grants that are available now, every dollar you give can multiply up to ten times the impact. and when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special save the children tote bag to show you won't forget the children who are living their lives in conflict. every war is a war against children. please give now.

it is one of the darkest chapters in our country's history, the brutal murder of a

beautiful 14-year-old boy, emmett till in mississippi. the year was 1955. till was kidnapped, tortured. he was lynched after being accused of whistling at a white woman in a grocery store. his murder stunned the nation. it ignited the civil rights movement in part, thanks to his mom, mamie, who made the gut-wrenching decision in her grief to hold an open casket funeral so the nation and the world could bear witness to this savagery of her son's murderers. she spent the rest of her life seeking justice for her beloved boy. she called him bo. mamie's story has largely been lost to history until right now, thanks to the extraordinary new film "till." simply put, it is a masterpiece. it is already generating lots and lots of oscar buzz. it is essential viewing. my dear friend, academy award

winner, whoopy goldberg, executive produced the movie. she also stars in it. since i've known you, you've been willing this into being. >> yeah, you know, it's a story black america has known because it's now we send our children off to go see grandparents and aunts and uncles down south. don't forget what happened to emmett. this is how you need to behave when you're down there. and for me, this is -- emmett's story is really the culmination of what institutional racism looks like. this is what institutional racism allows. it allows people to come in your house and take your kids. it allows people to get away with murdering your kids. it allows people to talk to you as though you don't have any value in the world. and given all that's happening, all of the things that we're

seeing, i really want to make sure that we told this in a way that everyone could see. i tell people, you can bring your 12-year-old to see this, you know? you need to be -- if you're going to erase the history that is already been put out there, then we need to put it in a film so you can see what this will look like if you don't stop it now. >> you're in the movie. you're mamie's mom. >> yeah. >> you're glorious as her mom. but it starts out as this conversation. i mean, mamie tells her boy, bo, be small. >> yeah. >> they have a different set of rules for negros down there. are you listening? >> yes. >> you have to be extra careful with white people. you can't risk looking at them the wrong way. >> i know. >> bo, be small down there. >> like this.

>> does that still happen? >> yeah. listen, you know, because racism is so volatile, you have to really sort of let people know. and it's still -- i mean, it's not like it doesn't happen now. we've seen it over and over and over. and the fact that this story is 67 years old, you know, 68 years old, means that we haven't gotten it through to people. this is not to make anybody feel anything other than, you don't ever want this to happen again. because if it happens with us, it's going to happen to you. if you're lgbtq kid, if you're a white woman, these issues are yours too. it goes from racism to all the

other -isms. and that's what you don't want. -isms come to your door at some point. people say, we don't like this happened. we want to do everything we can to make sure it doesn't happen again. that's my hippy pipe dream. but i believe the more people who see it, the more people who won't forget it. and they'll recognize it. >> we see her send her boy off, and then we see the most universal piece of maternal intuition. she knows something's wrong. >> yeah. >> what's wrong, mamie? >> we've never been apart this long. >> he's just going to see his cousins. it's not a bad thing for him to know where he come from. >> chicago is all he needs to know. i don't want him seeing himself the way those people are seen

down there. >> those people like me? >> even you left mississippi, mama. >> there's so many moments like that that you want to just jump through the screen and tell her to listen to her wisdom, to go get her boy. >> yeah. yeah. but, you know, this is -- that happens to ordinary people. this is an ordinary family. you know, there was nothing special about them. they were just a mother and son. you know? and they were thrust into extraordinary circumstances, circumstances that none of us, who have children, ever want to be in, ever. >> talk about the first excruciating thing she does for her boy when she gets him back. >> well, i mean, she -- when the coffin comes off that train -- >> that scene. >> -- the sound, that's a mother's anguish. that's a mother's gut-wrenching

knowledge of what's happened, you know? and that feeling takes us through the next several scenes, which are some of the most gut wrenching scenes ever. and it's shot beautifully, and it's shot the way it is so that you, the viewer, can stand next to mamie, as she is about to make this decision of what to do for this funeral. >> it seems that she carried him with her her whole life. >> her whole life until she passed away. this was -- you know, the fact that it was so easily done to not just her boy, but a child, that they had no compunction about doing this to a child. and it's -- again, it's a place you don't want to be.

and it's a thing that none of us, as parents, want to be in the middle of. your kids want to go see their family. they want to go and they want to have fun. you don't want to be the one to say, don't do it, i'm scared. you want them to have some freedom. and sometimes horrible things can happen, you know? so, what do you do? you try to pay as much homage to your child so that people don't ever forget his name. >> there's a thing that's so today in her wanting to see with their eyes because truth was already in a struggle with the deception and the lies of racism. >> if you think back to all the loss that we, as a nation, have had with the loss of race, what racism brings out and all the people we've lost and what they could have done with their lives. you think of all the people, the trayvon martins.

you think of anyone who has lost their life because someone didn't think you looked right, you know? >> conversation is about emmett till, but it's central to the conversations people still don't want to have today. >> well, you don't have a choice. you know, here's the thing. if you got rid of racism, you wouldn't have to talk about it. but if you stay in it, it's going to continue to be a conversation because people are always going to say, this is a right. racism is a right. it doesn't matter what race it is. it doesn't matter what your belief system. it's not right. and it's not okay. and as long as this remains america, people are going to fight to eradicate racism because it's inherent in our society, unfortunately. >> and she becomes -- she becomes a messenger for all of

that. but is that what she wants to do? >> no. >> and she becomes central. >> it was her child. >> she wants her baby back. but she becomes someone that everyone wants to see and meet because of the decisions she makes that the country will bear witness to the savagery that her son endured. >> did you caution your son how to conduct themselves and behave himself while he was down here. >> several times. >> several times. >> do tell us how. >> i will give you a literal description of what i told him, how coming down here, he would have to adapt himself to a different way of life, be very careful about how he spoke and to whom he spoke, and to always remember to say yes, sir and no, ma'am. i told him that if ever an incident should arise where there would be any trouble of any kind with white people, that if it got to the point where he needed to go down on his knees before him, well, i told him not to hesitate to do so. like if he bumped into somebody on the street and they might get

belligerent or something, well, i told him to go ahead and humble himself so as not to get into any trouble. but -- >> but what? >> well, i raised him with love for 14 years. my warnings about hate weren't going to get through. >> the film makes clear that through actions, she changes the conversation. and then through words, she joins the movement. >> yeah. >> what did she hope for? >> well, i think she hoped that we would not have to sit through anything like this again. i think her major hope was that this would never happen to another child. you know, that no other mother would have to go through what she goes through. that was her initial feel. and in the bigger picture was to say to people, you have a voice. you can stop things like this. if you pay attention, if you recognize that i am you and you

are me, we can do something. and, you know, progress happens slowly, but it can happen. we've seen it. you know, we made all kinds of changes. we've seen all kinds of amazing things happen. and now we're seeing it slip backwards. >> what do you think the regression is rooted in? >> well, you don't want me to say it. i think it's him. it's that man whose name i won't say. >> he obviously tapped into it -- >> he tapped into it. >> let me just say this. you said in 2015 -- i'll never forget this. he's your president, y'all. you knew that he was tapping into something. it's a call and an answer with him. >> it's not just that. when you're saying to people, you know, you're professing so run companies and run businesses and you're this zillionaire and you're on television, people believe that was his off. they don't know it was a set. they don't know it was a set. he had a good talk and he knew

how to talk on tv. and he's a good communicator, you know? but because i watched people say, you know, he knows how to run companies and he knows how to make money and he knows how to make us better, you know, he was aspirational. >> to them. >> for them. yeah. and i think that when people believe that you can fly -- when you get people to believe that you are part of the second coming, people are desperate. he's not god. he hasn't walked on any water. he got sick like everybody else. but because of his job, he was given a way to get well quicker. he is as human as i am, and he doesn't have any answers. and getting rid of history books and changing the way history is

told is not going to change the fact that people are still going to be here. native americans are here. black people are here. women are here. gay people are here. you're not getting rid of them by getting rid of the history books. we'll just put it on film. >> that's what this movie does. >> this movie is the same way i learned about anne frank. you watch the movie, say, oh, my god, this had -- i don't like that. if you can't get it in the history book, get it from the film. if you don't get it from the film, you get it from the oral conversation. but the conversation's not stopping. you're not going to stop the conversation. and you can't deny, we have a checkered history. this is america. this is what happened. but if we don't stop it from happening, it's going to continue. and if you stop talking about it and not pointing it out, it is going to continue. yeah, are we perfect? no. this is never going to be a

perfect country. no one candidate is ever going to give you everything you want, but we can do better than we're doing. >> quick break for us. we'll be right back. doing. >> quick break for us. we'll be right back.

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mamie, bo is growing up. you're going to have to let him go. all right. i know that face. that is the face of, mama, mind your business and go home with my pocketbook. >> mm-hm, right here. >> oh, there it is. >> you play mamie's mom. and when you have the scene where it's your grief as her mom because you were for bo going down to see his family, i also thought you mentioned trayvon martin. i thought of these large rings of grief. when this happens, it's not -- you know, every person whose world is destroyed is a world unto themselves. it was these giant circles of grief. and all of his cousins and his aunts, their lives are destroyed. it was this incredible blast radius of grief that this movie tells so beautifully. and we also, i think, in the news, we cover it, but you can get numb to so many stories. >> yeah.

>> and i thought the movie returned the conversation to the vastness of the grief. >> yeah, i mean, talk to eric garner's mom or talk to trayvon's mom or talk to george floyd's mom, i mean, these women are swimming in this grief. and they kept -- >> forever. >> yep, forever, you know? and the key is to remember that it's not just us. it's not just us. this is happening to little children all over the country. too many guns? are we not paying any attention. we're not paying attention, you know? and we've got to really get our act together because, man, if we go down that other slippery slope, who are we then? if you want to see what that end game of putting all those people in looks like, go see "till,"

and know that you could be next. this could be your life. is that what you really want? >> the film is glorious in its grace and in its ability to just cut through. what is it about -- you know, we talk about the news every day for our day jobs. why can't we cut through the way this beautiful film can? >> we had one story to tell, and that's what we're telling. you know, journalists have lots of stories they have to tell. talking heads don't have any of those. they can talk about whatever and put any spin they want to on it. so, you know, we, as a nation, have to say, okay, you know what? talking heads are over here. journalist people, you're still held to this kind of -- you're still held up here. but the fcc can say, you know what? those laws that we had place that said, you have to be on point, you must tell the truth,

you have to have three or four things to back it up, that's back in play. >> standard. >> and if you don't have it, you don't talk. you don't report. you can't do this job. >> so, not platforming both sides. >> yeah, yeah. >> if you're telling a lie, you don't get a spot on the conversation. >> yeah. you know, and there will continue to be lies, you know, because you have all these different platforms where people can write whatever. so, you just have to be smarter. and it's a lot harder work to swim through the -- >> bill barr's favorite word. >> the bs. but, you know, we may be past all of that now. maybe we're past trying to clean this up. i don't think it can be cleaned up. i think we have to start from scratch. >> are you optimistic that we can do it? >> always. always. >> how? >> because i've seen it. i've seen people pivot. >> you still believe in the power of voting and the sanctity

of our vote? >> i do. too many people died for this. too many people in my life died for the right to vote. so, i believe in it. i believe that when you're born in america, that's the only gift they give you. >> the only thing you get for free. >> that's the only thing you get, and it's yours. you know, it's yours to do with as you please. so, i don't want to lose that because if you lose the right to make change, we are so boned it's not even funny. >> i mean, the film -- i don't want to spoil things, but it does end with how long it took to pass the emmett till anti-lynching act. it passed this year, 67 years after his murder. >> yeah. >> so, to both sides of your point, it works, but it takes a very long time. >> but it doesn't have to. it could go so many faster if

people would just cop to the fact that, yes, this exists, yes, we can do something about it, and yes, i understand that you're equal to me. those three things. >> that's it? >> yes, it exists. yes, we can do something about it. and yes, you are my equal and thus want to be treated as such. i want you to treat me the way you want to be treated. we do those three things, we would be flying. >> do you have a sense of what you sort of -- what you've done with this film? >> well, i think we all -- the director and barbara broccoli and fred zolo and keith and michael, we all know -- we know what we wanted to do and we feel like we've gotten that done. it is my hope that enough people see it and also see the movie aspect of it because the young lady that plays his mother, her

name is danielle -- it's stunning. it's a stunning performance. >> every scene, her eyes are everything. they're her grief. they're her boy. you've seen her boy on her face because he's always in her eyes. everything she does is about her baby. >> yeah. >> and the universality of that, of a mother's story, is just the most -- >> that's what it is. >> -- exquisite thing i've seen on film. >> it's a mother's story. when you see it, you see ordinary people, an ordinary 14-year-old boy going to see his cousins. he's in his room, you know? this is how everybody lived. we lived as well as we could with what we had. so, these are important things to know, that this is our story. it's your story. it's her story. it's his story. it's all of our story. these are our children. if you have children, this is your story. if you're a mother, this is your story. if you're a dad, this is your

story. but we are talking about the mother because that is how the world worked for emmett and his mother. it was the two of them. and this is their story. and her story of how she honored her son to the second that she died. and all she wanted was for somebody to give him justice. so, will we get justice with the movie? no. but maybe she'll have to answer some questions, the woman on the other side of this. i just want her to answer some questions. that's all. there has to be a consequence for this. not taking her life away, what's left of it, but having to say out loud in front of people, yes, this happened because of me and i am devastated. >> you want her to see the

movie? >> yeah. i would like her to see the movie. >> and we will be right back. wik ♪ ♪ it's what sanctuary could look like... feel like... sound like... even smell like. more on that soon. ♪ ♪ the best part? the prequel is pretty sweet too. ♪ ♪ to a child, this is what conflict looks like. children in ukraine are caught in the crossfire of war, forced to flee their homes. a steady stream of refugees has been coming across all day. it's basically cold. lacking clean water and sanitation. exposed to injury, hunger. exhausted

and shell shocked from what they've been through. every dollar you give can help bring a meal, a blanket, or simply hope to a child living in conflict. please call or go online to givenowtosave.org today with your gift of $10 a month, that's just $0.33 a day. we cannot forget the children in places like syria, born in refugee camps, playing in refugee camps, thinking of the camps as home. please call or go online to givenowtosave.org today. with your gift of $10 a month, your gift can help children like ara in afghanistan, where nearly 20 years of conflict have forced the people into extreme poverty weakened and unable to hold herself up, ara was brought to a save the children's center, where she was diagnosed and treated for severe malnutrition. every dollar helps. please call or go online to givenowtosave.org

today. with your gift of $10 a month, just $0.33 a day. and thanks to special government grants that are available now, every dollar you give can multiply up to ten times the impact. and when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special save the children tote bag to show you won't forget the children who are living their lives in conflict. every war is a war against children. please give now.

we remain in awe of your courage to find purpose through your pain, to find purpose through your pain. but the law is not just about the past. it's about the present and our future as well. >> that was president joe biden in the rose garden this year

after signing the emmett till antilynching act, officially 67 years, making lynching a federal hate crime. but it took that long to make that happen is shocking. along with the fact that three republicans voted against the measure. joining our conversation, chair of the department of african american studies at princeton university and msnbc political analyst. we'll get with all that is broken. but we should start with the divine. i know you've seen "till" as well and had a chance to talk to folks involved in making the movie. i watched it tuesday night. and i'm still wrecked. and it took me a minute to get myself together to talk to whoopi about it. just tell me your thoughts on the movie. >> it took me a long time to get myself together actually,

nicolel. it's just extraordinary in her performance. what did we see? we saw the murder of innocence. but we also saw what? emmett till's courage, her conviction, and her faith. and those three things in so many ways gave birth to the modern civil rights movement. in some ways, the murder, the lynching of mehmet till was the south's answer to brown v. board of education. and the response to emmett till's murder was the mass mobilization of everyday people. it's an extraordinary film. >> it's so horrific to see a mother put her baby boy on a train and tell him to be small. and it's just the first of the horrors she goes through. the second, and whoopi and i talked about it, is her primal scream when her baby comes home

in a casket, in a wood box. and some of what we've covered together, i think, is this sort of collective primal scream at what feels like regression and going back, that there are unsanctioned moments of flagrant racism from sitting republican senators, mr. tuberville, that aren't -- they don't have the consequence of a political price. if anything, they have political elevation. and i watched this movie in horror and in awe but also in deep fear that we're just going back in the wrong direction. >> and you remember in the film, nicole, ms. till had a premonition. she knew her baby wasn't going to come home. she knew if she sent him south, something bad was going to home to happen him. on that moment in the coroner's room where she takes her hands

and runs her fingers across every part of her body and cries a deep guttural cry. and then to the aunt who was in mississippi, who felt like she couldn't look at the body. she says, no, we have to look. we have to look. we're talking about this in the context -- i just received a mailer from stephen miller's organization talking about biden and the radical left are discriminating against white americans and asian americans. i mean, just blatant racism, nicole. and then i'm thinking about the fact that emmett till's memorial marker has had to be replaced four times in mississippi. the first one was thrown into the river. the second and third was riddled with bullets. the last one they had to put up -- i'm talking about right now, nicole. they had to put up a bullet proof memorial. when you talk about the present nature of this, there's a line. there's a line really quickly

from william faulkner in 1955 in response to the murder of emmett till. he said, if we in america have reached a point in our desperate culture when we must murder children, we won't survive. and probably shouldn't. >> let me say really quick, i get nervous. you don't have to be really quick with us. i want to -- you know, the film -- wrecked the is only word i can think of. and it cracks you open. but the most shocking thing is when the black screen comes up and you see that the antilynching act passed this year. took us 67 years to pass federal anti-lynching legislation. and i remember covering at the time and being aware of that. but putting it all out there in this moment just feels really, really important. >> yeah, you know, we've never really grappled with, i think, fundamentally with our debt in this regard.

and one of the horrors -- i remember as we've talked about this over the trials and tribulations over these last few years, i felt so angry because it feels as if sometimes the country just runs over our dead, just runs past them, plays fast and loose. so, the fact that it took 67 years and we still don't have -- made a slight mistake. carolyn brian said that she did not lie. she didn't say that. she hasn't admitted it. and we still don't have justice. in some ways, the film tries to in some ways vindicate this young man, that he did not play a role in his murder, because some people think he did. so, you know, the fact that we've waited this long shows how corrupt we are when it comes to this matter, how corrosive it is, how monstrous we have been, and how monstrous we can be, it seems. >> so, i had a really long conversation with whoopi, and we're going to show as much of it as we can here.

i'd love you to be part of those conversations. maybe we'll put it all together somewhere because it's really important. and your perspectives are really important to me. thank you so much for spending some time with us today. >> thank you. quick break for us. we'll be right back. quick bs we'll be right back. research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's one that'll really take you back. it's customized home insurance from liberty mutual!!! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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forward, along comes "till," the new film by my dear friend whoopi goldberg. for whoopi and her coproducer, this was a labor of love, a passion project that was many years in the making. i had the chance to speak with mr. -- whose journey began making a documentary in 2005, in which we hear from the real mamie till about her gut wrenching decision to hold an open casket funeral for her only son, a decision that would change history. >> i looked at mr. raynor, and mr. raynor wanted to know was i going to have the casket opened. i said, oh, yes, we're going to open the casket. he said, well, ms. bradley, do you want me to do something for

the face? you want me to try to fix it up? i said, no. let the people see what i see. i said, i want the world to see this. >> extraordinary, extraordinary woman. so, the men who conducted an interview with mamie was documentary filmmaker keith bow shont. he along with whoopi goldberg willed this film into being. he joins me now. also joining us the reverend al sharpton, host of "politics nation" and president of the national action network. keith, i said this to whoopi yesterday. i'll say it to you. the film is a masterpiece. it wrecks me to watch the film and then to see mamie. just tell me your story of how you came to make the movie. >> well, the movie itself has taken me 29 years, close to 20 years with fred, zolo, barbara,

and whoopi goldberg. this is something that she was trying to do before he passed away. in fact, in 1955, '56, she did have two movie deals. but the film was never made. so, throughout her 47 year of struggle, fighting to get justice for her son, she had also tried to get this film made. and so i can honestly tell you, it's quite rewarding to be able to fulfill this particular promise that was given to her before she passed away, that we would do all that we can to make sure that this story has a broader platform so the world could be awakened again by the murder and the legacy of emmett till. >> something i talked to whoopi about yesterday was this clarity that she has in everything that she does. her decision to go to mississippi for the trial, her decision to do what she's telling you there in the doc,

have the casket open. the time when she says, leave us alone, and she's talking about her and her son in the coroner's office. and then she spends that time with him, describes touching every part of him. and then she goes out and she brings the cameras in because she wants people to believe what they see with their own eyes. t how much do you feel that message is needed today, keith? >> well, i think we're seeing it today. you know, in particular the george floyd case, the young lady who had her cell phone and decided to make this courageous decision to film what she saw. that was an extension of the work of mother mogley. and we see this time and time again. we've been seeing this unfortunately recently. it is not natural for us to see death in real time. but think about this. if this young lady did not take out her phone to film what was going on with george floyd,

would we have ever known of his story? and so when you think about what has happened in this country and how technology has, of course, evolved over the years, what we're seeing today is nothing different from what we saw back in 1955 with mother mogley made the courageous decision to allow photographers in to the coroner's office to actually take pictures of emmett till's corpse. so, i'm truly overwhelmed by the response we've been receiving about this film. but this is what mother mogley wanted. she wanted the world to be awakened once again to the atrocities that we are continuing to face in this country today. >> rev, something we talked about yesterday is moms don't ever want this to become their life's work. they don't ever want this to be what they're doing instead of raising their sons or daughters.

but in a lot of of ways, many moms have followed in their footsteps, and you know all of them. your thoughts? >> yeah, i do know just about all of them, including the george floyd family. but i also got to know mamie, the mother of emmett till. i was only one year old when it happened. but through her continued involvement, she came to the national action network several times, one time to comfort the family of james byrd jr., who was dragged to death in jasper, texas. i can say that she totally trusted and believed that keith would one day get this out. i remember doing things with keith. keith was like her son. in many ways i guess he was almost like what emmett would have been. so, i'm so proud of him as well

as whoopi and them for getting it out. because i was able in the years i got to know mamie and work with all of her cousins at the foundation, to know how important this was to her. and one thing i remember, nicole, and i shared this with keith is when i was a teenager and joined the movement, civil rights movement in the north, rosa parks said when she sat in front of the bus a year after emmett till and they told her to get up, she said she thought about getting up, but she couldn't get up. she thought about emmett till. that's how significant mamie till mogley opening that casket letting the world see what they did to her. it was the direct reason rosa parks didn't get up off that bus. it took all these years. thank god for people like keith and for mamie. it didn't start with george floyd. it continued with george floyd. it started with a courageous

woman opened that congress, starting to expose what we have to deal with and why we have to deal with racism in this country. the story can't be told without the story of mamie till mogley. >> it made me cry when he said that. how do you feel when he says that, that she thought of you like a son? >> you know, it was -- you know, i was very young when mother mogley and i was together. she was my mentor for eight and a half years, until she took her last breath. and this, you know, this is a sense of fulfillment. i'm battling a lot of emotions right now because we lost a lot of people along the way. a lot of the witnesses that i interviewed for "the untold story of emmett lewis till" have passed on. so, you have that question in your head, are you doing the right thing, are you second guessing why you're here, going through all those emotions. the one thing i know for sure is that it is very important that we continue to tell emmett's

story as mother mogley would say, until man's consciousness is risen. because only then that would mean justice for emmett till. >> what was watching this film like for you? you knew her. you know the story. the film is -- it transports you. and even if you are familiar with it, i wonder what that was like. >> it reminded me of how we had to be of two minds in this country. i was born and raised in brooklyn, new york, but my mother was from alabama. and when we would visit her folks in alabama, we literally, as mamie till mogley had to do, be taught how to act down there. can you imagine the pain and humiliation of a mother having to tell their child that you have to act a certain way to accommodate people's hatred of you? and the pain that must be inside of them to have to tell their

child, don't act normal. you have to accommodate other people's ugliness. and i think for them to put it in the movie is so important for people to understand how you broke people's spirit to where they had to treat their kids a certain way to accommodate being treated in an inhumane way. that is a very, very strong and awesome burden that people had to carry, but they did. and mamie represented that. >> keith, what do you want people to take from the experience of watching this film? >> well, i would like for people who go out to see this film to understand that this is not just a movie. it's a movement. it's a movement to done in our past when it comes to civil rights in this country. look, the family and i are still fighting for justice for emmett. that hasn't been talked about as much as it should be. and now that, you know, there's one person who was still

remaining who could be held accountable for the kidnapping and murder of emmett louis till, i think we need to exhaust every avenue to make sure that happens. emmett was the catalyst that sparked the american civil rights movement, and i think he deserved a lot more than just us seeing his story on television or seeing this story in the movie theaters. i think we need to uphold the legacy of the late mrs. mamie till-mobley and continue this ongoing fight that she actually started, not only with seeking justice for the lynching of her son but, of course, all the wrongs that has been done in this country. we need to expose them, and they need to be corrected. >> keith beauchamp, reverend al sharpton, i hope this is a conversation that we can continue over many, many months, and congratulations, keith, on the film. it is exquisite. >> thank you. >> "till" is in theaters right now. a quick break for us. we will be right back.

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oh, that day will live in infamy so far as i'm concerned. i got up that morning and for some reason we couldn't get out of that house. we were supposed to meet moses down at 12th street station. we could hear the whistl blowing as we got to the steps. he tore up the steps. i said, wait a minute. i said, you didn't kiss me goodbye. where are you going? how do i know i'll ever see you again? and he said, oh, mama -- he really scolded me. and i wondered why i said a dumb thing like that. but he turned around, came back. he gave me the kiss, and then gave me his watch. he said, here, take this watch. i won't need it where i'm going. >> that was the real mamie till-mobley describing that fateful day when she puts her

son emmett on a train to mississippi to visit his cousins. it would be the last time she saw her beautiful boy alive. hug your loved ones tight. our thanks to my friend whoopi goldberg, one of the stars and one of the producers of the important new film "till," out in theaters now. thank you for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. from all of us here at "deadline" white house," we wish you a peaceful holiday weekend. are starting hiv-1 treatment o or replacing their current hiv-1 regimen. detect this: no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. research shows people who take hiv treatment as prescribed and get to and stay undetectable

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