maryland, and texas. >> we had some pretty crazy sightings, but we look into them. we had sightings in new york city. from a very credible person. and the visual did look like mr. gricar but it wasn't him. >> maybe one day, they will be able to unlock the secrets of that damage hard drive. >> do you hold any hopes that at some point they will allow you to -- >> i'm hoping maybe in a couple of years. >> for now, the mystery of ray gricar disappearance indoors. and so does the wait for answers. >> do you still hold out hope that you are going to get a definitive answer? >> always. we're always gonna have that question that is never going away. >> that's all for this edition of dateline, i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching! thank you for watching >> welcome to a special

thanksgiving edition of the show, to what i'm calling the mehdi hasan book club, eat your heart out oprah! books and authors have been a mainstay of the show, given me a chance to dive deep into a subjects that both segments, book interviews help me understand the -- of the relentless news cycle. so we'll revisit our conversation with authors this year about how the media needs to cover elections, when one party is campaigning against democracy. how those like marjorie taylor greene have gone from the, fringe to the center of the republican party. and how our speaker, nancy pelosi, one of the most consequential features of our lifetimes, may have bought the chance to impeach and convict president donald trump. we start about the debate about books, particularly the endless stream of tell-all books about donald trump. what was perhaps most notable about all of them was not the white, but the when. that is. why did authors sit on so many crucial revelations and wait for a book publishing date?

>> i want to show you an old news we cover from almost 40 years ago, exclusive, the untold story of campaign 1984. and there, you can read the magazine fly on the wall reporting from -- presidential race including the scope, that president reagan's advisers were planning attacks take after the election that they had not even told reagan. about a looming tax hike does seem like something voters would have wanted to know about. so definitely worth a $2.30 new stand price for the magazine. but here's the thing, that issue of newsweek did not come out until after the election. part of the week for the news deal reporters was to get that access, that they would keep it under until -- a couple of journalists at the time were unsurprisingly mad at newsweek saying it was an ethical breach to withhold such important information. but the tempest passed. fast forward to today, where we've been getting books from d.c.'s top political reporters that revealed startling new

details about the trump white house, and alleged crimes. about clearly unpresidential behavior and more in 2020. it was bob windward's work revealing trump knew how serious covid was while he downplayed it to the american public. we had the president on tape from early february that chose not to disclose, until's book rage came out in september. it's gotten even worse since the 2020 election, one book, one bombshell revelation after another. about the former president and his various lies, scandals, and abuses of power. maggie haberman, the famed new york times trump whisper, she sometimes called. for the past seven, years is finally out with her new trump book, it is called confidence man. and it is out this week. and it to reveal some info that might be useful to know a long time ago. like how donald trump may have stolen government documents! he may have stolen government

documents when he left office in january. 2021. this is from the epilogue of confidence man, he demurred when i asked if he had taken any documents of note upon departing the white house. nothing of great urgency, no. he said. before mentioning the letters that kim jong-un had sent him, which he showed off to so many oval office visitors that advisers were concerned he was being careless with sensitive material. you are able to take those with? you i asked. he kept talking, seeming to have registered my surprise and said, no i think that's in the archives, but, most of the is in the archives. but the kim jong-un letters, we have incredible things. seems kind of important now, that conversation with trump almost a year before the fbi search at mar-a-lago. haberman's is just the latest trump look to raise the question, why do so many dc journalists either set on huge revelations, especially trump related revelations, until they are published in the book? instead of putting them out immediately? newspapers are dying, faith in

the media is at an all-time low, and the best position journalists are holding their cards until the lucrative book launch? that's how it looks and sounds to. many there is been a lot of scrutiny on haberman, and it has an added dimension, her years of access to trump. and her report. sometimes sympathetic, sometimes devastating. has gotten a lot of criticism from liberals and conservatives alike. according to gop strategist, steve schmidt, who cofounder the trump project. it is a single totem of corruption. just like trump chasing money over justice. that's nonsense, and bc columnist, and former democratic speech writer, michael. cohen. he said that none of this info was especially groundbreaking, and he adds that reporters actually get that info by sources, by promising that they will wait to publish it. they asked them, if a reporter tells them one thing, and does another. who will trust them in the future? so in the unprecedented age of division, distrust, and disinformation. how should they navigate their

obligations to their sources, their bosses, and to you, the american public? joining me now, steve schmidt, the former adviser to -- and john mccain presidential campaigns. also cofounded of the lincoln project and the warning newsletter on substack. and michael cohen. and miss nbc columnist and -- an author of the truth and consequences news letter on substack. thank you both for joining me. steve, lay out your case for what you think reporters are doing wrong with their books and why. and if they were really holding back from the publications that they were. would we be hearing it from their top editors? >> i think that when this argument evolves into whether reporters writing a book is a good thing or not, it is evidence that we are in fact living in an mediocrity. this is what the issue is. the reporter, what is their responsibility when we're talking about the top political reporters in society? and what i would argue is, that

you need to hold government accountable. and in essence what they are self declaring the power to do, is to take information and harvest it. like nuggets. and ultimately to commoditizes. it commoditizing information. putting it. some of that information is available for released tomorrow. for the public. some of it is withheld for the book later. who gets to decide that? now, the new york times specifically. in this case. calls itself the paper record. now, the new york times as an institution. judge against the collapse of trust, faith, and belief in the news. in the media companies. the fact that it is a powerful billion dollar company. that haberman as a celebrity, million dollar a year journalist reporter.

are these people immunized from any public criticism? i see an inherent conflict of interest. i also see a conflict when you have a reporter who is referred to by president xi's covering as his psychiatry. and what she did on a daily basis. what happens every day is the best moment of anonymous sourcing of people that she knows to be not credible in the white house. everybody knew that the president read the new york times about him. and what the white house officials dated was jockey their favor with haberman in a broad treating of information and tidbits. that are, as i just said, later commoditized. and i think that all of it adds to a collapse of trust and faith and believe in media. which fuels the political instability in the country. >> okay. case made. michael, let's hear you respond to some of that.

>> i just, i don't know what to say about that. i mean have the things, the bad things that we know about donald trump. we know because of maggie haberman in the new york times. the washington post. and other believed media sources. i think it's a crazy notion to say that she is holding material in track for her book. when, in so many stories of the past 70 years about trump. were broken by haberman at the time reporters. and the thing about the story that i find so bizarre is that they tweeted something about her keeping quiet. the fact that trump said that he did not want to leave office. he told them i'm not gonna leave office. but when did she know that? we don't know when she knew that. if she knew that in november of 2020. i'm sure she would've reported that. it's a major news story. when she founded out after january 2021. it's not a big news story. because we saw that take place. so most of what has come out from her book. that i've seen so far, is, i don't want to say that it's gossip. i don't want to reduce what is written. i know it's wonderful. but there is nothing to tell us what we already knew. there's something about trump

miss identifying democratic congressional aides that were african american in respect. as being waiters. donald trump's a racist? knock us over with a feather. we know this about donald trump. >> let me jump in and ask you a quick question. because i get your point. and there has been an argument about. when did they find out this information? when would have mattered? let me give you an hypothetical where you stand on principle. if roger sauter, the daily beast, says that herschel walker paid for an abortion from the deniers. huge story this week. if he held that back until after the senate election for the biography of herschel walker. would you be okay with that? raphy of h>> well now. why would you do that. every reporter wants the scope. and that scoop frankly, and he's got an amazing scoops. herschel walker. will eventually lead to a vote down the road for him. i don't get the incentive here to keep the stuff quiet. maggie is not gonna sell books two years after the fact because she, you know, reveal that donald trump said in

november of 2020 that he wanted to not leave the white house. everybody knows that. but they're buying the buck because she has a special insights into trump, that's when nobody else has. and that's what makes her an effective. reporter >> you are very critical of the new york times a moment ago i. i just had peter baker on this show on tuesday, him and his wife. just wrote their own big trump of. that reveals lots of things. like he wanted to trade puerto rican for greenland. why people are worried about his mental health. i asked them about the criticism of reporters holding back for the books. have a look at what he said. steve >> well, first of all i would say all the reporting new in this book was went after he left office? we weren't holding back when people needed to say before the election. so any revelations before the election was gonna change his outcome before he was. if he did. lose now there is this urgency that he we have. we do put that in the newspaper. we don't call that. back >> steve is he wrong? >> i think that each cases

situation. all that you cannot apply, you cannot apply generalized under two different cases. in the cases of haberman. i think that you are talking about the believed white house correspondent for the new york times. and who gets to decide what information is commoditized for later. so, we began that segment by looking at maggie haberman standing in front of photo op signs. celeb are fighting. if that is a word. the launch of the book. the motive for it is obviously. if you package a book. so some of this old news for example. where she is a contributor at cnn. is bill as breaking news on cnn. even though the news is years old. and what i'm saying is, it is not on the level. the collapse of trust and faith and belief in the media in america is a very real thing. the fact that people do not

believe. >> steve. when you talk about trust steve. i'm just gonna jump in and ask you steve. when you talk about trust, you worked on multiple campaigns. did you ever do deals with reporters on the side saying i'll give you this. you can't report it yet. >> absolutely. i negotiated all the time. and every conceivable status with reporters off the record, background, deep background, so on and so forth. and all of the reporters that were writing books about campaigns or magazine journalist that we're doing it. most of them had an understanding. hey very specifically, i am writing for a book later. i am not reporting news data day. there is no confusion about what their role was. my thing is. this >> weight. >> information is valuable. it's valuable because there is a commercial product at the and that is marketed as such. >> okay. we are out of time seen. i want to give michael the last

word of this. michael 30 seconds. the floors. yours >> i wrote a book called game-changer thoughts of revelations, they also covered raised on a day-to-day basis. and i think with what epitomizes justice in journalists is these attacks. people don't understand how journalism works. there's no evidence that maggie haberman took secrets to sell a. there is no -- >> maggie haberman. >> well we'll have to -- this is a great conversation. i wish we had more time. but we are out of time. which is very frustrating. steve schmidt, michael, cohen thank you for coming and having this discussion. appreciate you both. appreciate you both. ference with downy.

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sigh of relief for democracy after the midterms. but around 150 elections and there is still one seat, in the house and beyond. and they're gonna dominate kevin mccarthy, should he even become a speaker of the house. awaits, and this guy, the one who incited a insurrection on the nation's capital is running for president again. so how should the media be covering this anti-democratic movement? have we learned anything after six years? well a new memoir by former washington post -- margaret sullivan, called news room confidential, lessons from an ink stained life provides plenty of of -- >> margaret thank you for

coming back on the show, congratulations on the. book in a washington post he's adapted from a new memoir, you, wrote and i quote, trump was a deeply abnormal candidates. but the news made a could not communicate that frequently, or -- why was that the case? oren hasn't gotten better or worse in your view? in my view it's gotten worse. >> you know, i do see some progress. but i also am very disheartened at times. the reason for, it i think, that was trump was seen with is this sort of circus that we covered in a sort of, oh gosh, isn't this interesting. isn't this wild way. to get people very interested. he himself called himself a ratings machine. and for once, he was telling the truth. you know, but what we didn't do is really communicate the consequences and the meaning of trump as president, and it took us a long, long time to even do simple things like call ally ally.

or call a racist statement a recent statement. . >> you have trump right now, obviously in his legal battle, still claiming that he won the election. trying to make a come back in a couple of years time. and yet, the media gets very easily distracted in a very short memory. and i look at some of these debates that have been happening, ahead of the midterms. some of the questions seem bizarre to me. just in the last two weeks we have seen multiple debate monitors, in my, view trump the ball and give back face candidates of past. whether it's a monitor in journalism asking whether -- it is -- or whether it's in florida. have a listen. >> yes or no ron. will you serve a full four-year term if you're reelected as governor of florida? it's not a quick question. it's a fair question. he won't tell you. >> we did not agree on the candidates asking each other, questions governor. it is your turn. >> i'm amazed at a germinal's can see it happening, and not as rhonda sanchez the news's question of the night.

are our tv debates, and tv moderator is letting us down in this crucial political moment? giving right wing candidates as a pass, by bold sizing everything? >> that's a problem. the news media wants to bc, and desperately wants to be seen as fair. and unbiased. and impartial. and those are good aims. but in order to get there, they are overly responsive to criticism from the right. and they keep moving over to try to make it seem like they are fair. and in fact, they are actually just taking things down the middle that shouldn't be taken down the middle. democracy and anti-democracy are not equal things. and they should not be treated as such. >> barry well put. several news are this came out very hard on john fetterman's post-debate performance. he did fumble a few words. but he didn't fumble any more words and herschel walker, or donald, trump who didn't have strokes as far as we know. when a republican manages to come off as semi polished, they

get a gold star for beating expectations. but when a democrat stumble slightly, they are unfit for office. why do we continue to great republicans on occurs? why do we do that? >> it reminds me when trump would actually stay on script. or stay, or get through a press conference or rally without saying something completely off the rails, and outrageous. and it would be like, we see he is becoming presidential now. you know, i think it is the same reason that this grading on the curve misses. it's the same reason because we are so terrified. we, in the mainstream media, are so terrified of being branded as liberal. that we bend over backwards and go too far in the direction of giving supposed fair treatment of things that do not deserve it. >> so it is worse than just fair treatment, it is almost tilting to the right, seeing that the right is coming back into office and the media wanting to have access, a lot

of problems as the daily beast con in this is making this point. they have many journalists who don't want to lose access to one of the two main political parties. especially the majority in congress. and you see that they're hiring, not just -- but former trump officials to give -- mick mulvaney, to comment on politics. the comments on. trump it is absolutely bonkers. and yet, i feel like it is to do with access. >> you're right, i agree with that. the well a nation from no vainly being hired was indeed, we need to retain access. because mick mulvaney was going to provide access of some value. that's not even a case i do not. think and this is the very guy who says, yeah, you know what, that was actually a quid pro quo. we do that kind of thing. i mean, how he gets hired as a

legit pundit on cbs is beyond being. and i wrote a blistering column about that. >> he also claimed that the pandemic was over when it wasn't over, so there would be a peaceful transition of power. so they are obviously not hiring him for us at the analysis. margaret, last question, we see the recent strain of books from prominent journalists like maggie haberman, peter baker. about the trump white house. and many have criticize those reporters for seemingly holding back information for the books, rather than reporting them out in realtime. a classic example from the haberman book was, trump told him from some of the documents that they had taken out of the white house. and we only found out about that more recently. but she was told about that a while ago. that's one of the criticisms, what are your thoughts about this, all of, this do you see an ethical dilemma for white house correspondent in the book business? >> my bottom line belief is that journalist, when they discover new information, that is important to the public should get it out there as quickly as possible. i know that maggie haberman, certainly says that she was in

contact with her editors. she was reviewing with them whether things needed to be put out in realtime. and you know, that sounds legit to me. i believe that if i were the public editor at the new york times, which i was, at one time, i would dig into what was held back for how long. did that make sense. so i cannot comment on the specifics. but internal, i think that it is really important to tell the news when we have. it and that includes bob woodward. who was criticized for the same thing. >> well, let's forget about all of those other books. your book is called newsroom confidential, lessons and worries from insane, life i urge everyone to get hold of a copy. my get, thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> when we come back, what was once the french. has become the full front. how did marjorie taylor greene become the heart and soul of the modern gop? that is the story told in robert troopers nubuck, what becomes of mass delusion! don't go away! n't go away! deep into the tooth to help actively repair acid-weakened enamel. i recommend pronamel repair to my patients.

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hillary clinton murdered a -- and suggested that many now and governments are actively worshipping satan. and elsewhere in her conspiracy field university, she could declare that thousands of pedophiles and child traffickers have been arrested since trump was sworn in. and that is global evil was being funded by the saudi rivals, with jewish billionaires and the rothschild family. just totally wackadoodles, deranged of. why am i telling you about some random conspiracy nut? well. although the messages were first written under the pseudonym elizabeth camp. her great grandmother's name, she was posing under her own name, marjorie greene. yes, that marjorie greene. marjorie taylor greene. the north georgia crossfit gym owner, and mother of three, by 2019 had traded in the anonymity of keyboard, to the

lawmakers in person. that was wandering the corridors of capitol hill, and yelling outside of the doors of ocasio-cortez's office, in a since deleted video that was gone by cnn's kfile. take a. watch gone by cnn's kfile. take a watc we will see, we will go vit alexandria cortez your cortes, crazy, eyes crazy, eyes hang with, us alexandria or casey oh cortez, i am an american citizen, i pay your salary with the taxes that you collect from me through the irs because i'm a tax banks citizen of the united states. you need to stop being a baby, stop blocking your door, and come out and face the american systems that you serve. if you want to be a big girl, you need to get rid of your diaper, and come out and be able to talk to the american citizens instead of us having to use a little flap. sad. >> childish, abusive, and let's be honest unhinged.

in another video from that time period, greene said that aoc's fellow member -- is not really a member of congress because you took an oath on the quran, the gop leadership in 2020 could not back her when she decided of course to run for congress for georgia as deep red 14th district. republican leader kevin mccarthy's office that her comments were appalling and he had no tolerance for them. house minority -- her discussed in of like the values of equality and decency that make our country great. he backed her primary opponent. as extreme as you think trump was, as extreme as you think the republican party was in 2020, marjorie taylor greene was way more extreme. but is that still the case. sadly, shockingly, far from it. that is that the system a book but new york times robert draper who's meticulous reporting shows it is not as if

greene has gravitated towards the gop in congress over the past 18 months. as much as the elected republican party has shifted towards greene, who's closer to the republican base than probably anyone else. just look at our fund raising record, with more than $3 million in her first quarter in office, a staggering sum for a freshman. look at how everyone in the party wants their seal of approval, robert draper tweets that earlier this week, kevin mccarthy was fundraising with marjorie taylor greene. she will be on the campaign trail with kari lake and j.d. vance later this month. in fact, if republicans take back the house, she expects to be back on committees having been stopped by democrats of her committee assignments, for extremist behavior, and often antisemitic rhetoric. but she often expects a lot more, power and influence or else, i think to be the best speaker of the house, to please the base, mccarthy is going to give me a lot of power, a lot of leeway she predicted in a flat unemotional voice robert

draper writes. if he doesn't, they will be very unhappy about it i think that is the best way to read that. i just think that is reality. but forget the bright light of the oversight committee is hearing room as it carries out baseless investigations, is there anything more high-profile for a trump acolyte than standing in the side as those vice president, quote, i would be honored she told jaipur revealing that trump is apparently considering her as a running mate in 2024 although also acknowledging that gop advisers would urge trump to think twice about a candidate as divisive as herself. i think the last person the rnc or national -- 's me as his running mate. here's the thing, green has become a laughing stock for liberals and leftist which is understandable because she says and does a lot of them and laughable things. just this past week, the georgia -- confederacy by posting photos of herself on trump's social media platform, at the wild brigade monument in georgia,

one tiny problem with, that the brigade wasn't infantry unit in the union army, you know, the patriots who won the civil war, not the traders who lost it and greene apparently wanted to honor. so sure, on the one hand, it was just the latest embarrassment of money for the jewish space lasering gazpacho policed many chuck from georgia, but it's a mistake to laugh at, her or dismiss her, this is a woman who commensurate influence on the american right as robert draper noted in his new book, and who says outrageous inflammatory insightful things, like this just the other week. >> democrats want republicans dead, and they have already started the killings. >> you cannot, you cannot ignore that kind of dangerous, and, yes fetishistic rhetoric. genocide scholars often color and accusation in the mirror, democrats are killing republicans? that is not a french voice on

the right, i wonder who, in today's gop marjorie taylor greene is the main attraction. the book is called weapons of mass delusion, when the republican party lost its mind, by robert draper. a writer for the new york times magazine. if you are all curious just how much power it once french figure like marjorie taylor greene is about the yield within the next republican-controlled house, the book is a must read. up next, we turn our attention to the leadership of the democratic party and how they actually botched donald trump's impeachment. don't go away. think you're not at risk? wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. at fidelity, your dedicated advisor will help you create a comprehensive wealth plan for your full financial picture. with the right balance of risk and reward. so you can enjoy more of...this. this is the planning effect.

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nancy pelosi was the most consequential speaker of our lifetimes, millions of americans now have health insurance largely to her efforts to get the affordable care act passed a decade, ago but she was also not without her shortcomings. despite her images of

resistance, the truth is she slowed walked both trump impeachments. that if they count told in a new book unchecked, the untold story behind congresses botched impeachment of donald trump. i spoke to the co-office in this -- rachael bag, both on capitol hill for the washington post during the trump, years now pentagon correspondent for the, post and rachel is a coauthor of political playbook. thank you both for joining me. congratulations on the book. rachel, let me start with, you there is a common argument from democrats that it wouldn't have mattered what they did in any impeachment procedure, you never would have gotten enough for senate republicans 17 to convict. but your book complicates that narrative. what did you find, especially when it comes to the second impeachment was nancy pelosi could have started on the morning of january the 7th? if you're on a serious including republicans, but didn't. >> i mean this notion that democrats argue that nothing would have changed no matter what they did that is a sellout

and our book shows that in great detail. amateur a publican from washington state we can make you figure in the first impeachment she and other moderate republicans had serious problems with trump was doing in terms of the pro quo with ukraine. at that meeting, shame presser publican leaders washington tie vote for anything and the way they got her back on board was to point to a lot of procedural issues democrats were having -- looked their marketing due process to the president they are not letting you see certain documents that are a news that we are pro against the whole inquiry. the same thing happened with -- conservative from florida he actually approached pelosi and vote to impose john bolton and

take the time to fight with her testimony in court. but, she said no, she wanted to get the impeachment over and lost just there in the first impeachment do opportunities. >> yeah, democrats are always in a rush on both impeachments, i remember -- for valentine's day. republicans don't come off well in your book either, especially -- republican house judiciary committee who report used some dirty checks, may have attempted to even obstruct, justice will have been there? >> well the document basically was trying to convince the white house to actually play ball with the investigation. at the same time, he is defending the white house's decision to block congress to -- its job in public. so this shows in realtime how there was a conscious effort that republicans knew the line they were delivering to the public or say hypocritical, and was not actually good for congress, or good for the country. as they were doing trump's

bidding anyway. following these players, it is not just him jordan and the document happening with kevin mccarthy, through the second impeachment as well, the document happening with mitchell o'connor we have snow stood up after the stigma quidel and said there is no question in my mind that trump is responsible for this but there is a procedural problem. we show back room meetings where he told people including his own staff this feels like an off, ramp it feels like an excuse, it is a way to get out of a difficult situation but it anyway. that kind of shows there were these moments where the gop was not thinking with such a calculation where on january six mitch mcconnell was approaching the democrats in their lockdown, and thing we have to work together, not, trump there's no way he can helpless, and you are referring to the opportunity to impeach trump the second time on your, six or the morning, had he gone with that. that is one of those moments where, you don't give the gop time to think about their political calculations, because when they start to think about, them they start to act in a two faced way.

but we shall have the principles there basically had this not seeing the actually far and the two sides of that happening at the same time. >> so, rachel, in your introduction you have a remarkable sentence, quote, when asked about our reporting some senior democratic's -- and in the case of policy, disengage from the book entirely learning about discoveries a preferred narrative. were you -- media threatening them, throwing tantrums with this book seems to struck a nerve with democratic's, they seem to be acutely aware and a sensitive to their failures in those impeachments, do they not? >> look, they like their preferred narrative other surrounding these impeachments, that is what they did everything they can to show the country that trump was dangerous, but the reality, if they didn't. pelosi as he said in your intro put in the first impeachment on a timeline, she ignored a lot of investigative threats that other democrats including jamie raskin who was a hero in the thinking to putin if a democratic party, what his advice was to broaden and go

after corruption and i want to go back to your first question because you are asking about some of these missed opportunities and particularly you are interested in the second impeachment. even after january six, pelosi shut down an effort to impeach trump that very night we report in our book. even though she says she wanted but some in the, face she pulled her constitutional punches that night, and there was pressure from chuck schumer, from the white house on jamie raskin's team to move on in the second impeachment, and to just throw the cards, throw in the cards. and, that sort of, what would have happened you have to think if they had used that moment to really call subpoenas, and chase things down. could they have connected to trump. >> nobody likes to question there, harris this is part of the problem. people who back the intent the democrats had in going after these two times do not want to look and say that they make mistakes? because it is difficult to do that. it requires self examination. it is easier to just blame the other side. by our reporting shows --

not just the reporting, the january six committee who wrapped up its hearings, they are covering the same ground of subject matter as impeachment as well. look how differently they are doing. they are going after subpoenas, fighting them in court, they are pulling republican witnesses, doing everything they did not do the first time. and, here we are. except for the fact that when the difference though is that they have a friendly president right now, and a friendly administration. so not actually a complete course correction because we don't know if congressional oversight is going to hold up the next time against the precedent who would rather squish without. >> we also don't know what the incoming impeachment of a republican house would look like. rachel bag, thank you both, thank you for writing a book that allows me to say i told you so. it is called unchecked, the untold story behind congresses botched impeachment of donald trump, and it is out now. and it is out now

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senior u.s. editor for the ust summer magazine, and author of the 2020 book the influence of soros. emily, thank you so much for coming back on the show. we are talking about jewish american identity, i don't want to talk about donald trump just yet let's talk about you interviewed hundreds of people for this work, and you write about how many of them predicated what they said by identifying themselves as, quote unquote, bad jews. you seem to sympathize with that. is self doubt at the core of jewish identity in america? >> i wouldn't say that if that the court jewish identity in america, but i would say that this idea that we are not jewish enough, that we are doing it wrong, that somehow we are not upholding this traditions in the right way, that has been core to many people's experience as american jews. i don't think this is necessarily any to american jews, i think everybody has an identity, and whatever your identity is, especially if it's a minority in this country you grapple with wraps at some

point. but i do think this questioning and debating and this throwing a label across the political aisle at each other, and holding it ourselves that that has been a constant in the american jewish experience. >> and, emily, only -- first jewish member of congress later found at the anti immigrant know nothing party, and the first jewish cabinet was in the confederate cabinet. clearly these questions of jewish identity are not new ones in america. >> no, exactly, that is why worth the book because we are in this moment right now where you have trump making the comments he, is where you have as i said, you have people sort of saying, this is what it means to live out you just values but in fact american jews have for the entirety of this country's history trying to figure out what it means to be juicier, and disagreed over it. >> so, we are in a place now where conservatives like donald

trump and mike lee can suggested often crystals that liberal jewish americans, or choose living in israel or the bad news, how dangerous is that? how dangerous are we? >> i think it is extremely dangerous moment. i think first of all in one hand it is offensive that they would say this, because they are not jewish, and who are they to decide that i'm a good shoe or bad due. on the other hand it is pretty meaningless as it is not up to them, but i think what we really need to remember is that american jews are americans, and putting some sort of loyalty test to another country, or a political party, that in and of itself, that is, to me that it's antisemitic right, and it basically requires us to pass some test before we can be using full participants in this country and i think that is really wrong. and to your point, we are in

this moment of rhetoric of antisemitism, it does not feel good to live in that political climate. >> what advice do you have four people in the media covering both american jewish communities, and the state of israel because on the one hand, we all want to avoid antisemitic tropes or make choose our list of being responsible for israel, a foreign country does, and the other hand manuscripts themselves heavily focused on defending israel, undermining non shows that most americans should consider themselves to be -- so how do you bust navigate that without causing the -- or pushing tropes? >> i would say two things, american jews are not responsible for the actions of the israeli government, most second of all i think it is really important that the american media, people often say treat israel like any other country, that means israeli government policy, israeli military, that is open to reporting and criticism and analysis and that reporting on

those basis, that is not antisemitism. and, finally, i would just say that members of the media today, this is speaking for myself there is no comparison between the scale of antisemitism on the left and right in american politics today. yes antisemitism has no one political home, yes it across a exist across the spectrum. but if you look at what is coming up across the republican party today, there is no comparison. it is the threateningly to make, enthused by our democracy, because antisemitism is a conspiracy, it allows paranoia to fester, it often works in concert with other hatred, so not just jews, muslims, black americans, refugees, migrants, and it is important that we don't, -- as you say i am lean left so, the is my own perception, most american jews also see -- say that they feel antisemitism on the right is a bigger threat. it is also important that we not for the sake of seeing

where part of cimarron fair that there is a political -- >> we will have to leave it there. the book is called bad to, say history of american jewish politics and identities, it is up now, emily, thank you so much for your time. that does it for the many kherson, showing us anytime on facebook, twitter, instagram, and tiktok. for now, for, me goodbye and happy thanksgiving. wayfair's black friday sale is here! save on mattresses & bedding up to 70% off. living room seating up to 65% off. and get free shipping on everything! search, shop, and save at wayfair! ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪

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