i' >> tonight on trump dines with a white nationalist.

how republicans are reacting. plus, the justice department broadens its investigation into trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. and i will speak with the new president of human rights campaign about how to fight hate speech in the weight of the lgbtq nightclub shooting in colorado springs. let's get started. so republicans are in the midst of a new firestorm right now, and it's all thanks to, you guessed, it donald trump. this week trump posted to far-right figures in his florida home. nick fuentes, an unabashed racist and hollow cost an ire, and kanye, west under fire for recent antisemitic comments. trump says he didn't know who the white supremacist was before he done with a, but the back flash shows that he's in full damage control. one longtime trump advisor described it as an effing

nightmare. here's biden's reaction today. >> mister president, why do you think of donald trump having dinner with a white nationalist? >> what do you think of, that sir? >> i do actually want to hear what he has to say, but look, even before dining with a white nationalist, trump has struggled to reclaim the excitement he once had as he announced his 2024 presidential bread. a quinnipiac poll found the 57% of americans think trump running for president in 2024 is a bad thing. another poll found that since his campaign announcement, support for trump is actually slightly decreased among republicans and right-leaning independents. meanwhile all the math for kevin mccarthy to become speaker in january continues to get harder. it's something he wasn't expecting. right now the republican leader is fighting for his political life, struggling to secure the 218 votes he needs to be

elected speaker of the house in january. five house republicans have already signaled they will not support his bid, setting up a kind of floor fight we haven't seen in a century. according to nbc news. think about it. if this is the kind of turmoil the republican party has brought upon itself in the two weeks since the midterms, we have to ask, what will the next two weeks look like? let's discuss with democratic congressman-elect wiley nickel of north carolina. congressman alike, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> thanks so much for having. me >> of course congressman when you think of the chaos at all these different conversations, what do you make of it? >> i take a big sigh. that's really where i am. the thing i fall back on is i was one of six republican held seats that we flipped and we flipped my seat because of this issue. you know, we had pro democracy republicans and independents who said they were tired of it.

and that's a big reason why i'm going to congress. so, i think that message is something that's really important here for folks all around the country. >> of course, and you are headed into congress at a time, where as you've seen, it's a very divided house of representatives. what do you want to accomplish for your constituents, but then also, how would you actually be able to deliver on that? >> you know, i really continue what i've done as a state senator, you know, working across the aisle to deliver results. and the reality is, you know, we need, you know, 60 votes in the senate to pass a bill. and, you know, to get it to president biden's desk. so, we're gonna have to work across the aisle in the senate and the house. so, i'm encouraged by, you know, the opportunism we have to do that. that's what the message, i think, from this election was. the voters want people, you know, solving problems, and not playing partisan little games.

that's what we hear about so much on the republican side, and you know, i'm just putting my head down, and focusing on things i can do to help my constituents. >> yeah, the people also want changes, right? i think it's especially in light of the awful mass shootings and a tragedy and the pain that we continue to witness. you heard president biden, right? saying that he wants to ban assault weapon rifles. where do you that's gonna go? >> yeah, i hope we're gonna pass a bill. we need to. you know, the time for thoughts and prayers is over. we need more action. we passed a bipartisan bill we passed in the last congress, we've got to get past the gun lobby. that's the real problem here. and you know, there are a lot of republicans in the house that they won seats that they probably shouldn't have. this is an issue that's important if they want to get reelected. so i'm hopeful that we are able to reach across the aisle, continue delivering on common sense gun safety solutions. >> of course, sir, you beat out

republican beau hines earlier this month. and we all remember one of the many reasons why you made headlines among other things. he pushed for, quote, community level review, panels to decide whether survivors of rape and/or incest could have access to an abortion. do you believe, now that you've had some time, you know, to look back, do you believe that, you know, your success is due in some part to that extremism? >> i mean, that was a big part of our campaign. you know, he talked about this specific case issue a bunch during the campaign. and you know, we have a far-right extremist, and you know, by winning this race, and literally out of 435 seats, our seat was exactly in the middle. so, you know, we've got to send a message that you stand on the wrong side of women's rights, and stand on the wrong side of, you know, the issue of choice, you're gonna lose. that was the message for our election. and i hope, you know, everybody who runs in the 50/50 seat like

ours, you know, knows that if you have those far-right views, the voters are gonna hold you accountable. >> and what do you think democrats should be doing at the federal level to protect abortion rights? >> the bill i hoped would be the first bill i would vote for, would be able to codify the protections of roe v. wade. we fell a few votes short in the house, and it looks like one vote short in the senate. i'm still optimistic. you know, we still need to continue pushing on this issue, because women all across the country are losing their rights. you know, we are seeing in state legislatures, you know, i expect that the house republicans will try to pass a bill that can, you know, take away women's rights and ban abortion on a federal level. they will not succeed in this congress, but they're certainly gonna try. and we need to continue talking about this issue, pushing on it. and the voters deserve to get some results. >> and before we go, i want to ask you about where you are

right now, right? you are in north carolina. you're representing the people in north carolina. and i think in many ways, that state is a microcosm of the country, right? it's a state that barack obama won in 2008. of course, you're well aware of that. it's the state that donald trump won the last two presidential elections. and it's a state where, you know, even though republicans continue to have a big presence there, your party made significant inroads. so, what do you think that tells you for 2024? like, what's the type of thinking that your constituents are going through right now? >> yeah, north carolina is where the rubber meets the road in the next presidential election. it is a state, you know, if you want to be president, you've got to win north carolina. that's very clear. i think they get our attention. you know, we are a 50/50 state. we are a purple state. we have a great governor, roy cooper, who provides a good example about how to stand up

to republicans when they're wrong, but also to work with them when that helps our state. i think we're gonna have a lot of, you know -- we will be certainly a very important state. and you know, and this last election, we sent seven republicans and seven democrats to congress. you know, that's what districts like ours should do and i think that's a good sign for the next election. >> congressman-elect wiley nickel, thank you so much for being with me tonight. coming up, the justice department's newest target in its january six investigation. mike pence, we've got the details, next. ♪ ♪ ♪ and get free shipping on everything! search, shop, and save at wayfair! ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪

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is going to the top of the trump world food chain. according to the new york times, doj officials want to question mike pence and the january six investigation. pence, of course, had intimate knowledge of trump's efforts to remain in power, after losing the 2020 election. the times report pence, at

least for a moment, is open to considering the investigator's request. that's a change that can signal something. nbc news has not independently verified that finding. let's bring in our legal panel to discuss all of this and a whole lot more. we have bradley moss, national security attorney. lisa rubin, legal analyst for the rachel maddow show. and charles coleman, of course, msnbc legal analyst. thank you all so much for joining me tonight. i really, really appreciate it. bradley, i want to start with you. so, sources tell the new york times that mike pence recognizes the doj's criminal investigation as, quote, seemingly different from the january six committee's question, right? and investigations. of course, he's refused to participate in that. can you tell me a little bit about the significance of pence actually following through on this and speaking to the doj? what would that mean? >> sure, no, that would be hugely significant. and there's a considerable distinction, to mike pence's credit, between doj seeking his testimony versus congress.

there was an obvious separation of powers issue with congress doing it, it's not a criminal inquiry. this is the justice department. it's run by a special counsel in terms of president trump's particular criminal exposure. this is a criminal investigation. there's established precedent that allows the justice department to require to these matters, even if there's executive privilege that would otherwise be validly invoked. this is why having mike pence possibly testifying, could be extremely damaging to donald trump. there are things only mike pence knows, because as we heard from other individuals, from some of his former staffers and lawyers, he kicked people out of the room when he held some of the calls at the end with donald trump. he and he alone knows what he said to donald trump and what donald trump said to him. and so, he can provide some very interesting information that with sort of fill in the gaps in this, you know, larger january 6th inquiry. >> right, lisa, bradley said it best. he and he alone knows exactly what happened. so what you want to hear from mike pence? what do you think he can actually contribute to the doj 's investigation? >> well, as bradley said, there

are certain conversations that mike pence had with trump alone. we know about two of those conversations from prior public recordings, as well as from pence's own book. one of those conversations occurred on january 6th, between the two of them in the oval office. the second happened on the morning of january 6th by telephone. trump said that conversation was overheard by people in the oval office. but as bradley just said, pence had people leave the room. and when he came back, he did not share what happened during that phone call with greg jacob, or marc short, or others who were in the room. so the first thing i want to hear from him, paola, it is what, specifically, he discussed with the president, when no one else did in the room. >> charles, i want to shift to another doj investigation involving trump. this week, three federal appeal courts judges in atlanta, two of whom were of course appointed by trump, were highly skeptical of trump's arguments for a special master review, for the documents seized by the

fbi at mar-a-lago. one of those trump appointees, judge brett grant said trump, quote, hasn't really made much of an effort to show specific need. what's your reaction to that? >> well, paola, i'm not surprised. i think anyone who is following this from the outside and read the actual opinion in the order that granted the special master to the beginning had a very difficult time following the judge's logic. and i think that when you actually objectively, regardless of whose side you're on or regardless of who appointed you, it's very clear that this judge has not made a strong case for that. and so, when i read this opinion, and i start to hear about how these judges are responding through the review of the original order, it comes as no surprise that they're tearing this apart. and basically saying that the trump campaign did not -- show an adequate need to have a special master. >> broadly, jack smith, obviously, like his name is coming up constantly.

there's been a lot of mixed reaction to his appointment. he's of course the new special counsel appointed, and obviously his investigations. what do you make of it, right? what do you make of all of this noise that we're hearing from republicans? >> yeah, so right now it's just noise. i mean, look, in the end, i personally didn't necessarily think being a special counsel was necessary. i understand why merrick garland did it. i kept it. there are certain optics, reasons to do so. but in the end, whether it was through jack smith, as a special counsel, or through the normal line prosecutors who were running this originally, if there's gonna be an indictment of donald j trump, it's gonna be made by merrick garland, it's not gonna be by the prosecution. and jack smith, if he's gonna do it now, he's gonna bring that to merrick garland first, to basically say if you want to overrule me, speak now, or forever hold your peace. it's a bureaucratic issue at this point. it doesn't change anything. it's gonna be an indictment. it doesn't matter who's running it at this point. >> lisa, do you have a similar opinion. i mean, what do you make of smith's role in all of this?

>> i think as bradley just said, smith's role is really to play senior department leadership with respect to the running of the day to day investigation. but that the end of the day, and the special counsel regulations for this prerogative to the attorney general, at the end of the day, the attorney general has the right to know what recommendations are being made and to refuse them. he also has the right to preview any report that the special counsel wants to release to congress. so, it doesn't remove merrick garland entirely from the chain of command. what it really does is remove him and others who've been within the circle of who needs to know so far from this sphere of day to day management of this case. and to that extent, that it may be helpful with the american public, in believing that this is as true a nonpartisan investigation as it possibly can be at this point. >> and i think this is also a

time where a lot of americans are looking at the past, right? they're looking at mueller to see what could happen. former mueller prosecutor andrew weizmann brought up this week, advising special counsel jack smith, on what to learn from the mueller probe. what do you hope jackson mid would be able to learn from the mueller probe? >> well, i think there are a couple of lessons to be gleaned from that, and the essay that you just cited definitely hit on a few of them. number one, trump is no longer a sitting president. so, some of the precautions and constraints that mueller approached his investigation with do not apply in the situation with jack smith and what he's trying to do. one of the other things that i felt was a very poignant point that came out during that essay was the notion of how you engage the public narrative. mueller was very, very quiet about it from the standpoint of we are talking about a current sitting president, and anything that had been revealed about the investigation in his findings prematurely could have really rocked democracy at its core. now that you are talking about someone who is no longer an

office, it's very important that jackson be savvy enough, along with merrick garland, as to how to engage the public narrative around this thing, because trump's team is out in full force, trying to shape the narrative. he doesn't have, jack smith, doesn't have the same constraints that mueller did, when president trump was the actual president. so, he also has to learn how to do that dance as well, around what the public narrative is, around this investigation, and potential prosecution. >> so much to unpack. thank you for all of you. please, stick around. next, our trump legal coverage continues, with a new reexamination of a years-old case by the manhattan district attorney's office. ♪ ♪ ♪ . i recommend pronamel repair to my patients. laundry truths: the bargain jug. ♪♪ that's a huge jug of detergent. yeah, isn't it a bargain? you know that bargain detergent is 85% water, right? really?

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investigation into trump, breathing new life into a probe that was believed to have reached a dead end. under the new da, alvin bragg, prosecutors have returned to the long running investigations original focus, you may remember, the 2016 hush money payment to stormy daniels, the woman who said she had an affair with trump years earlier. so, let's bring back our legal panel. bradley, i want to start with you. what do you make of this move from the manhattan da's office? >> yeah, some almost a little bit confused here as to where they think they can go with this. and not necessarily on the merits, but just because of timing. there's a statute of limitations in which they would have had to bring charges. this conduct happened in 2016, that is six years ago. most of the relevance, extra provisions, the statute of limitations would have run at least after three years, if not five. there's a potential for them to extend it, if they could bring a larger conspiracy charge. but my concern here, you know, just from a what are they doing exactly at this point, you know,

at this stage? how do have the authority to bring a charge if you can at this stage? i don't know that they can anymore. i think that ship has unfortunately sailed, if there was going to be something along those lines. >> lisa, what do you make of it, right? like is it fair to say what are they doing, they tried it once before, they failed. so what, and their mind, is making it believe that they can do with this time? >> a very specific peculiarity of new york law. so i was a new york practitioner, and here is where we got around what bradley just said. in new york, if you are a nonresident defendant, the statute of limitations which ordinarily is at most, five years, unless we're talking about a civil conspiracy, it gets paused for every day that you spend outside new york. you remember that in september of 2019, donald trump changed his residence from new york to florida. most people at the time understood that he was doing that for tax purposes. unfortunately, by trying to save himself a few bucks in respect to taxes, he also extended the statute of limitations for some years, with respect to new york.

that means that the district attorney is fully within his rights to reopen the hush money charge, and potentially, other charges that folks like bradley, me, and charles, would have otherwise thought would be timed out. >> that's fascinating. so you thought he was gonna getting away with something, and then actually, it's backfiring. >> correct. >> i mean, yeah, he wasn't thinking about that. let's talk about the other case in manhattan, charles. prosecutors rested their case this week in the trump organization's tax fraud trial, and did so without calling donald bender, a formal outside accounted for trump, as a witness, despite initially planning to do so. the times says that's skipping mentor on the witness list indicates that prosecutors believe that their case has been made. do you agree with that? >> well, speaking as a former prosecutor, the only reason that you leave any witness on the table who could be helpful, is if you feel they're not gonna have anything. so, what has come out through

the duration of this trial has already told us that allen weisselberg is very clear on being the fall guy for whatever reason, and showing an undying loyalty to both donald trump and the trump organization. at the beginning of this, i predicted along with a number of people, you know, weisselberg was really a pawn the manhattan da's office was attempting to squeeze him into flipping, and to bring a provocative witness. while the latter did not happen, so in these situations, you see someone go forward and be prosecuted. and that's what you saw, when weisselberg was put on the stand, when weisselberg had been named, indicted, and moved forward. and that's what's happened. so, ultimately, without any additional information, he's basically played a game of chicken with the prosecutor's office, and the prosecutor's office has said, well, we're gonna prosecute you, then. well, that's gonna happen, now that the trial has concluded, i expect the conviction to be coming down the pipe very shortly. >> so bradley, on weisselberg, he obviously admitted in court that he committed tax fraud crimes to achieve his personal

gain. so now that we know that, it's it's out in the open, those are his words, what are the consequences that he may face, and also, what potential consequences can the trump organization face? >> sure, allen weisselberg already pled guilty. he'll face very likely jail time here. the question is how much. one, there's the issue of his age, lack of criminal background, and the fact that he did testify in support of the prosecution, sort of as their key witness here. that will play to his benefit when he gets the sentencing. but i think there was an expectation he'll do some minimal, at least, prison time. that's gonna be difficult for a man of his stature and age, and what he's become accustomed to. for the organization, for the trump organization, you can't put an organization in jail, obviously. and this is a trial that would end the trump organization as a business entity. it's a civil trial, possibly, doing that later on through the attorney general. but it will certainly cause an issue of monetary fines. it will cause a problem for them with any remaining financial institutions that want to lend to them. that's something they'll take

into consideration. no one trusts their books. we know that they kept two pairs of books that they defraud people, do you want to loan money to this organization going forward? >> as you said, no matter how you see it, this was not a good week for trump, right? it doesn't matter how you see it. so let's look at yet another legal loss for trump. the supreme court, right? the supreme court rejected his request to block the release of his tax records to the house ways and means committee, meaning that theoretically, democrats on that committee could potentially obtain trump 's tax returns before republicans take over. what do you expect? i mean, is that a realistic expectation? >> i'm somewhat surprised it hasn't happened already, and here's why. when the biden administration came in, and there was a settlement of prior litigation between the house ways and means committee and the treasury department, which had previously been at odds with one another as to whether or not that committee was entitled to trust access.

there's a specific level statute that allows the ways and means committee on the house side, and a different committee on the senate side to request that information with respect to individual taxpayers. now that it's been over, and now that we know that the treasury department and the house ways and means are in the same place, it shouldn't take all that long for them to take possession of it. whether it's happened yet or not, we don't know, and the treasury department was certainly close in the last week, saying they received the ruling, and you know, they'll let the public know when they have more to report. so i am optimistic, paola, as i'm sure you and charles and bradley are. >> charles, what do you think about that? >> i think the same thing. i think the only thing about the releasing of these tax documents that i find to be unfortunate is that this decision puts the house ways and means in a very different, and a very difficult buying, with respect to the amount of time that they'll have to

review them. the decision about making it public, and trying to keep the clock, turnover in january, and this discussion is likely disbanded. this only happened earlier, i think all of us could have benefited, practically the public in general, a lot more from what it is that maybe in those tax documents. but it remains to be seen how quickly the ways and means committee will be able to go through them. >> and bradley, final question to you, right? if you take a step back, and you look at the landscape, and all the different legal troubles that trump is facing right now, which one do you think is most likely to result in actual charges, of any? >> as far as i'm concerned, the documents case. i think that is the most clear cut, and most simple case to actually bring. you know, he took documents. he obstructed the investigation to get them back. he had people lying, sworn statements. that's a pretty clear cut case in my view. the january 6th case is gonna get tied up and all kinds of issues about executive privilege, and you know, power as the incumbent president. the georgia case has got issues of how much he really said to people, how much it was false fake electors doing things. those are gonna have different

kinds of prompts. i think the documents case is his biggest, criminal exposure, but we'll have to wait and see, and the special counsel's gonna let us know, one way or another, at some point here. >> yeah, only time will tell, but if you are trump, and you're looking at this list that we saw, you're not feeling good. bradley moss, lisa rubin, charles coleman, thank you also much for joining me. >> coming up, hate speech continues unabated, and a week of mass shooting at an lgbtq nightclub in colorado springs. ♪ ♪ ♪ and get free shipping on everything! search, shop, and save at wayfair! ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ among my patients, i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend. dove invited women who wanted their damaged hair trimmed. yes, i need a trim. i just want to be able to cut the damage. we tried dove instead. so, still need that trim?

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piece together last week's shooting in club q, a colorado springs lgbtq nightclub, a shooting that left five people dead and at least 18 injured, lgbtq rights groups have said there is an increased state of fear and panic within their community that began well before the shooting. colorado springs locals and national activists are outraged, attributing that fear is fear and panic to the wake of anti-lgbtq bills proposed by conservative representatives in dozens of states, to a rise in anti-trans violence, and the failure by some of the media to accurately report on it all. and, sadly, prominent figures on the right aren't stopping, right? they are doubling and tripling down on inflammatory anti-lgbtq rhetoric, and part in a wild and very dangerous attempt to defend their words and actions before the shooting. joining me now is kelly robinson, the president of the human rights campaign. kelly, i am so, so excited to be able to talk to you tonight. thank you so much for joining me. >> thanks for having me. >> so i feel like there's two

parallel worlds out there, right? there's a world in which there is progress, right? in which as, you know, we, queer people, live better. but then, there is a world in which the hate speech is just proliferating and getting worse, right? what's at the root cause of that second world, what's making that hate speech just continue to bubble up? >> these things are related. and i don't want to take away from the fact that, as you've said, there has been incredible progress for lgbtq+ people in this country. if you look back for two years, there were so many ways that we've grown that we've may change, that's not by accident. and that's because we are people, people have fought, they've put their lives on the line to get to that sort of change. and at the same time, we are seeing an immense backlash from our opposition. they are trying to dehumanize us. they are trying to take away our very existence. and we see that through the rhetoric, this anti-lgbtq rhetoric that's got increasingly violent and cruel, even attacking our children,

all the way through to the political attacks that are happening in state legislatures all across this country. anyone watching should be frightened for the state of our families right now. anyone watching should be in fear. and anyone watching should also know that this isn't moral. it's not who we stand for as americans. we need to change the course of this rhetoric in our country to make sure that we are standing up for all people and all families. >> i know that you've said that we are in a state of crisis right now. and i think that has reinforced, when you hear tucker carlson, when you hear matt walsh, when you hear you know, libs of tiktok. not, you know, tending to moderate their language with the opposite, doubling down, sort of justifying the hate that is out there. why do you think that is? is it because there is a lack of accountability? is it because they simply don't care, they've seen that this is a strategy that works? why do you think it's happening? >> you know, i think fear is at the root of it all, fear and power. and at the end of the day, what

we are seeing is an extremist minority of people who are trying to push their viewpoints on everyone. at the end of the day, the issue of the livelihood of lgbtq+ people is beyond politics, it's beyond party, it's beyond where you live. 80% of folks in this country support nondiscrimination policies for lgbtq+ people. over 70% support same-sex marriage equality in this country. the folks who are pushing this rhetoric and pushing this violent cruel language are out of step with where people are, and they're doing everything and anything that they can to cling on to power, and the way that's not about people, it's only about advancing their own agendas. and what we are seeing, the hopeful side of this, people are pushing back. this past election cycle is a great example of where folks across the country stood up and said no to this rash of extremism that we are seeing. we are here for love, for heart, for soul, for our communities. there is a hopeful part here

but what we're seeing right now is really a dangerous and ugly backlash. >> you mentioned we are here for love, right? love is something that so many of us have found in safe places, and in safe spaces, right? like club q, tell me a little bit about, you know, the importance of those spaces, and what it means to suddenly wake up one day and not have them anymore, because we're too scared to go into them? like, what does that mean emotionally, psychologically, for a lot of people? >> you know, there are really no words for it. and every time you hear the testimony and statements of people that were at club q, you can understand that, right? the places where we go to feel safe, to feel whole, to feel celebrated in a world that can sometimes be so cruel. and look, at the end of the day, like, yes, i'm the president of a human rights campaign, but i come home, and i'm a mom. i'm a wife, you know, i'm somebody's daughter. i'm looking to experience the same type of joy in my life that everyone else does, to feel safe, to feel community, to feel loved. and that's what was taken away from so many people at club q

and our community at large. many of us are still mourning pulse. many of us are still trying to win this strategy when there was another shooting at walmart a few days later. this is a tragic moment that we're in right now, and i hope folks don't look away, but instead we see this moment for what it is, a crisis point where we can do something different. >> i remember my club q. i remember being a teenager, and having those places, do you have one? do you remember yours? >> oh, yes. it was sopko nightclub in columbia, missouri. and yeah, it's that place where i went to feel free in a way that didn't feel in any other part of my life. it's a place that i discovered who i truly was, and that has been taken away, and it is just devastating in a way that i can't explain, you know, for so many of us, it's like church, you know, it's that base where we feel connected and whole and grounded. >> of course, and at the end, the hope, you know, the light

that we see, it's people like you. you are about to become the first black queer woman to lead the nation's largest civil rights lgbtq organization, right? that is joyful. that is hopeful. that is giving a lot of us, you know, the type of light we need right now. how are you feeling? and what is the significance of this moment for you? >> yeah, i'm incredibly proud, but i'm also so humbled. i know that the only reason that i'm standing here, or sitting here, about to take on this incredible role is because i'm standing on the shoulders of giants. so many people from civil rights leaders, to leaders in the lgbtq plus movement, to leaders in the reproductive rights movement have fought for us to get this very place in history where we've got the political urgency, but also, the power to make big generational change. it's gonna make a difference for my kid, a difference for the next generation. i'm so proud to be a part of that, and grateful to all of the people that are part of this big and incredible movement. >> kelly, we cannot wait to see you lead, truly. thank you so much for joining me tonight.

>> thank you. >> next, young voters are rejecting the far-right. and the far-right doesn't know what to do about it. ♪ ♪ ♪ even easier than those dances your grandkids love doing with you. ok, i got it. (laughs) start medicare shopping today with walgreens find rx coverage. ♪♪ plus, find low-cost copays. it's not too late to talk medicare. walgreens, is here. ♪♪ ♪♪ walgreens. >> young people turned out in

droves during the midterms, enough for republicans, that was the story. young voters had the second highest level of youth participation, in at least 30 years, some 63% of voters under 30 cast ballots for democrats in house races, with young people of color, voting democratic at even higher rates. but while young voters are rejecting the gop's far-right turn, republicans either don't care, or aren't paying attention, case in point. the dinner that donald trump just had with white supremacist nick fuentes.

my next guest is the author of raising them right: the untold story of america's ultraconservative youth movement and it's plot for power. kyle spencer joins me right now. thank you so much, kyle, for being with me tonight. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> let's start with what just happened. you have donald trump, right? the leader of the republican party having dinner with nick fuentes, what do you make of that? >> i make of it that donald trump is probably not aware who is having dinner with, which is a problem in and of itself -- >> you think he has no idea? >> i think he probably didn't have a really, really clear idea who he was, and probably didn't have people around him who knew exactly who this guy was. but i think he learned very quickly who he was, and i think there is no question at all that once that guy sat down, he knew this guy was an antisemite, he knew this guy was a right-wing activist, and a very dangerous fellow. and he did have a problem with it. and nick fuentes then went online and bragged on his tv show that donald trump loved him, that donald trump called him a very smart guy.

i think it shows our total lack of having his finger on the pulse as far as it relates to donald trump and the people around him. >> right, the other people that didn't really have a finger on the pulse were, you know, these far-right youth groups that you've obviously written about. this is your area of expertise. but they were so convinced, right? that they would be organizing on college campuses. that they would be talking to young college students, and it's something would happen. but then, you have the midterm elections and the opposite happened, right? the majority of young people rejected that right wing extremist ideology. what do you think is behind that rejection? >> i believe the far-right's hate campaign has come back to haunt them. people, young people may have issues with the democrats at times. young people may sometimes be less connected to the party. they may wonder whether the democratic party is helping them as much as they want. but at the end of the day, young people are closer,

they're not hateful. they're more empathetic than any generation before them. they're more interested in a lot of people to live the lives they want to live, and are appreciative of difference. and i think for some reason, right young activists lost the yard. they lost the message. and they've worked so hard and a kind of echo chamber to push their ideas forward, that what ended up happening was once they actually got viral with all of their videos, got prominent display on college campuses, had hundreds and hundreds and thousands of people coming to their conferences, the more people learning about what these people actually believed in, they said, no, thanks. you're scaring the heck out of me. we don't want that. that's not who we are about. so it's a victim of their own success. >> yeah, so the more people saw it, the more they walked away from it. so, if you get in the head and the brain of someone like charlie -- charlie kirk, right? one of the leaders of turning point usa. if you can get in their minds, what are they talking about

right now, right? they saw that the candidates that they supported, like kari lake, blake masters in arizona, lost. they saw the way that their own generations are rejecting them, so what's their plan, moving forward? >> well, i think first of all they're dumbfounded. because for those of us who were watching kari lake when that campaign, riding her finger at the cameras, and threatening to disperse to destroy the press if she was elected, and to destroy the fair and free elections, if she was elected. they were so out of touch that they saw that a lot of people would be fired up and excited about that, whereas voters, particularly young voters, said no, we don't want that. first and foremost, they're dumbfounded. they obviously don't understand how young people think, and they don't understand how people thought in arizona and other states. and so now, they're trying to figure out, well, what does this mean? does this mean we have to keep messaging even louder? or does it mean that we need to dial back some of our extreme messaging? and one of the things that some of the folks in charlie kirk's

group have said to me is they think that maybe the country isn't just ready for their radical ideas, and that they ought to dial it back, not that they don't want to push these things forward, and push these candidates forward, but maybe they were wrong to think that they should try to get so many people behind a radical, you know, anti lgbtq, christian nationalism rhetoric. maybe they ought to try steps behind the scenes, like they've done in the past, and not try to convert as many people. >> okay, so they're not giving up. so, that's why you see turning point, that set to have their annual conference in arizona just next month. you're gonna hear from people like steve bannon, marjorie taylor greene is gonna be there among other people. so, you know, clearly, they are continuing with this strategy. have republicans not understood that this type of branding hurts them? like, why is this happening after this major loss that they just saw? >> yeah, i think what's going to happen is that they are going to continue this very harsh and really nasty and hateful rhetoric with their

base. and they'll do it with these kinds of conferences. and you'll see, steve bannon, kendis owens, benny johnson, some very angry, very hateful people are going to be at that conference, talking to the base. i think they're gonna talk about is how to talk to these people who don't understand that. how do we talk to these people who don't understand our ideas are good ideas. they're gonna talk at these conferences about how to soft pedal some of this hate. so, we should continue to be very, very scared of these people. they have a tremendous amount of money. they have donors that pump millions and millions of dollars into their organizations every year. they do a tremendous amount on social media to get their message across. so, i think they're gonna spend some time trying to figure out how to pass some of this off as less radical, and to tone down the rhetoric, but to continue to hold these very dangerous ideas. >> i know, kyle, you know, that sets a straightforward message. we need to continue to be scared of these people. i know you've had conversations with ayman before the midterm elections, and you had various

conversations about this, sounding the alarm, you know, telling us to look what the future could potentially look like. if these people continue to gain steam. after the results, and after everything we're seeing, you still feel the same? do you feel as secured as you are three weeks ago? >> i do, but i think something unbelievable and wonderful is happening right now. i think we are seeing it all over the place. the college democrats today posted something online where they talked about how excited they were about the future and about supporting democrats, and how much young voters mattered in these recent midterms. you are seeing a lot of these youth groups getting more and more support from democratic donors, and from democratic candidates. i think joe biden is showing himself to carry tremendous amount of what young voters think. i think we are seeing a sea change. i think that we saw in these midterms that young people have to get the support, young activists have to get the support of the party. and that we need to build our own turning points, and our own

activist groups that can spread the democratic message of a equality and equity for all. >> kyle, thank you so much. the book is called raising the right: america's ultraconservative youth movement and it's plot for power. and it is out right now. thank you again, kyle. up next, a world cup record that has nothing to do with scoring goals. ♪ ♪ ♪ asthma, or smoking. even if symptoms feel mild, these factors can increase your risk of covid-19 turning severe. so, if you're at high risk and test positive, don't wait. ask your healthcare provider right away if an authorized oral treatment is right for you. ♪ ♪ ask your healthcare provider right away no two dreams are the same. but there is one van equipped to handle them all. for over 120 years, mercedes-benz vans have

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