putin is focused on the center of gravity for him, which is russian mothers. he televised a sort of stunned russian mothers, i'm here from you. if he loses the russian mothers, he'll lose momentum for manpower. >> clint watts, we greatly appreciate it, and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. i know as u.s. attorney in arkansas, you personally prosecuted white supremacist groups. what's your reaction to seeing a former u.s. president associate with someone like that? >> i hope some day we won't have to be responding to what former president trump has said or done. and this instance, it's important to respond. >> and that is what it all boils down to, republicans in a position, again, to have to

respond to donald trump's embrace of white supremacists and anti-semites. we're going to break down the controversial dinner at mar-a-lago as the republican party finds itself in a familiar spot with former president donald trump. >> you know, the thing is, really quickly. i mean, governor hutchinson who's spoken out time and again in very important ways. he goes back to a familiar refrain about what republicans and always saying, why do we have to respond to this. why do you always ask me questions about donald trump. >> he's the leader of your party. >> i'm not speaking to asa here because he does speak out. but to republicans, he's the leader of the party. he had dinner over thanksgiving weekend with not only a white supremacist, a neo-nazi, who said some of the most vile things about jews, and other americans, with kanye who has

said one anti-semitic remark after another, and so why do they have to respond to that? because he's still the leader of their party. and it's very easy for kevin mccarthy to say he should not be sitting down with white supremacists. but it's not easy because kevin mccarthy may owe his speakership to people who also hang out with white supremacists, where there are groups of white supremacists and give speeches. so, you know, trump's actions spoke volumes, but it's a reality. it's a truth that unfortunately we have all had to absorb a long time ago, and the republican silence, well, that speaks volumes too. it's a cowardice, unfortunately, that we have seen for five, six years. but this actually takes it to yet another level. trump goes even lower here.

and if republicans are looking around and trying to figure out why they had everything lined up for the biggest red tsunami since 2010, since 1994. a year i know something about. i mean, it was lined up, should have had a massive, like kevin mccarthy said, they should have picked up 60 seats is what he said. they are going to pick up 60 seats. you don't know why that's not happening because you just won't look into a camera and say we denounce white supremacy. donald trump should never have had dinner with those two people, and he owes us all an apology. just say that. it's over. then you can go back and talk about hunter biden's laptop or whatever you want to talk about, which i guarantee you, most of america who decides elections don't want you to talk about. if you want to talk about hunter

biden's laptop, go to it, first you have to condemn your nazi in your midst sitting down with the president of the united states. >> we'll have more on the question why they won't and the crazy dinner at mar-a-lago. former vice president mike pence refused to sit down with the january 6th committee, but is he willing to speak with justice department investigators looking into efforts to overturn the 2020 election. we're going to have new reporting on that, and that would be quite something. >> well, actually, yeah, it would be very significant. >> that would be more than the committee. the committee get disbanded. and early voting is -- >> can you believe the number of people out there? >> long lines. they're playing the ad from senator rafael warnock where he lets his opponent, herschel walker do most of the talking in the entire ad. >> in politics it's pretty smart

not to hand the microphone to your opponent. not in this case. in this case, please, buy herschel walker a lot of microphones. let him talk. and basically destroy himself politically. >> the ad is incredible. we'll show it to you. we'll go live to beijing amid major protests and calls for china's president to step down over the country's constant covid lockdowns. and after being trapped for seven hours, a pilot and passenger have finally been rescued after a small plane crashed into power lines in maryland. we'll have the latest on that incredible rescue. all right. former president and current presidential candidate. >> and leader of the republican party. >> donald trump is distancing himself from a known white nationalist after hosting him for dinner at mar-a-lago last week. he had dinner at his club. on tuesday, trump welcomed

anti-semite nicholas fuentes to his palm beach estate. that's where the documents are. also there was kanye west who has recently faced backlash for anti-semitic comments of his own, as well as a former trump campaign staffer. a source tells nbc news that trump was very impressive with fuentes, a holocaust denier who the former president now claims he did not know beforehand. >> just like he didn't know david duke beforehand, jake tapper, i don't know anything about the ku klux klan. you want me to criticize groups i know nothing about. he knew david duke. he condemned david duke for 20 years before that, and now he's claiming he doesn't know. do people just wander in to mar-a-lago without secret service. >> that would be very bad with

classified documents there. >> without secret service there. this isn't like they walked into an arby's. it's not like kanye walked into an arby's, sat down, there's donald trump. no, it's not an arby's, it's a place that's very secure, all planned out. they've got secret service there. they know everybody who's coming. this whole idea, hey, he just showed up. i'm at arby's, and they hand me a sandwich. no, no, they knew all along. >> as for west, nbc news has learned that trump became angry when -- >> this is a good point. >> when the rapper asked the 2024 presidential candidate to serve as his running mate. for west's own newly announced presidential run. according to a source. and west himself, trump began insulting west's ex-wife, kim

kardashian. >> this is a reality too. >> this is what happens in donald trump's world. it's great for headlines, but republicans, this is why you lose elections. >> this is your guy. >> this is why you lost in 2017. this is why you lost in 2018. this is why you lost in 2019. this is why you lost in 2020. this is why you lost in 2022. instead of picking up 60 seats, you barely squeak in because the new york assembly doesn't know how to redistrict. that's really it. >> apparently trump got really mad and was shouting at kanye. ye. his opponent, his 2024 opponent. this is what you got. telling him quote you can't beat me. >> this is your republican party, guys, gals. >> it's comedy. >> it's why you keep losing elections. i'm trying to help you.

i'm trying to help you. this is why you keep losing elections. >> it's true, actually. you have been trying to help them. >> i have been trying to help them out. >> what am i doing here. >> please don't put your hand on the hot stove. 2017. 2018, please, don't put your hand on -- >> again, and again and again. >> how many times do you have to put your hand on the stove before you realize donald trump burned you. you lose elections because of donald trump. you lose elections because you listen to extremists and whackos back in your district instead of middle class americans, main street republicans. independents. swing voters. people that want you to work together with everybody in washington, d.c. >> this dinner, i do think, was new level for trump republicans who might have been like, i'm not that comfortable, but i like them. i don't think the images from

that dinner -- >> with the nazi? >> i think it's a little too much. i think that might even cause some real extremists to, you know, obsessing about hunter biden and think joe biden is a criminal, i think even them it's too much. >> getting in the way of doing people's business, investigating hunter biden's laptop. >> you got the guy who's going to be from kentucky. the hunter biden laptop guy who's going to be running judiciary, which i'm sure, yeah, the judiciary committee was created so people could investigate hunter biden's laptop. but he said, when asked over the weekend on cnn. >> we'll show it. >> he said, no, i don't want to talk about the nazi and the fascist, and the neo-nazi and fascist. i want to talk about hunter biden's laptop. could you imagine that. >> it's not judiciary, it's oversight. >> even better.

could you imagine that. i don't want to talk about the guy who's eating with nazis, and fascists and white supremacists and neo-nazis for dinner. i want to talk about hunter biden's laptop. can you imagine. that's the world view of the people who are now running the house of representatives. good luck republicans, good luck american. >> the trump team is doing damage control in the wake of last week's dinner, now trying to put some distance between the white nationalist and the former president. >> holocaust denier. >> trump took hours before acknowledging the dinner, and writing quote kanye west called me to have dinner at mar-a-lago. shortly thereafter he unexpectedly showed up with three of his friends whom i know nothing about. >> that is not true. you can't get close to donald trump at mar-a-lago without the

secret service knowing everybody who's coming in. >> however, three sources familiar with the dinner tell nbc news that trump at the very least knew one of the three friends brought to mar-a-lago by west. karen giarno was the trump campaign's florida director in 2016. those sources say trump knows her by name and sight. trump later corrected himself in another post acknowledging he knew at least one of the people brought to dinner, and added that west is a seriously troubled man. >> because he wants to run against him. not because he's been spewing anti-semitic remarks. >> and here's the thing, let's try and believe his words. >> no. >> and a white supremacist walks into mar-a-lago for dinner, and you don't think someone whispered --

>> a white supremacist walks into mar-a-lago, it's not a joke. of course they did. >> the minute you find out who it is, i'm sorry, sir, you need to leave. that would have been a good thing to do, especially with a white supremacist. >> hugo lowell reports while the trump team urged the former president to denounce fuentes, the former president made clear he does not want to criticize him for fear of antagonizing a devoted part of his base. >> he will not criticize a holocaust denier. he will not criticize a guy who has said some of the most heinous, anti-semitic remarks, anti-jewish slurs. he won't do that because he doesn't want to offend some of his supporters. i was about to ask a question, who thinks that way? but we know who thinks that way,

and it's why he keeps losing elections and why his party keeps losing elections. let's bring in marc caputo. founder of the conservative web site, the bulwark. and the host of msnbc's politics nation, and the president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. charlie sykes. our former tribe, what say you? how horrible, huh? >> as you point out, we have been here before, haven't we? this feels very very familiar. the thing about nick fuentes is he's not your garden variety bigot. he is a holocaust denier who has compared jews who were murdered by the nazis to burned cookies. what is interesting, of course, is the two points you just made. number one, the silence of republicans who have this muscle

memory of acquiescence, don't dare criticize, you know, the former guy. but again, look, they have done this again and again. it's sort of baked in, right, if you support donald trump, you look the other way from charlottesville, you look the other way when he hung out with notorious bigots. it's also interesting that donald trump does not want to criticize nick fuentes, who is so reranged that people like michael lindell goes that guy is crazy. he's so far out there. donald trump does not want to criticize this white supremacist, white nationalist, holocaust denying neo-nazi because he understands and he has been playing this game, this winking, you know, wink wink game with the alt right, the extreme right that he does think is part of his base. republicans have to decide, you know, do they want to continue

to -- do they want to continue to be complicit in all of this because they have decided this over and over and over again. it's not just about winning. it's also a fundamental test of morality. what do you stand for? who are you? >> charlie, this is what i don't understand. they failed that a long time ago. they failed the basic test of political morality a long time ago. >> right. >> when they went along with this guy and his muslim ban. they went along with this guy post charlottesville. we could go down the list. so i'm kind of like, i don't really care why people are converted. i want them converted, you know, when they play just as i am, 18th verse, if you're walking down on the first verse. this is what i don't understand, though. we know they failed that test. we know that paul ryan, a guy that you and i both have known a long time love, respect, respected politically before,

i'm speaking for myself here, on one day, he says trump's a racist. on the next day, he edorses him, right? we got that. they lose on the morality front. they like paul now, they would go, wait a second, we can't win when this guy is leading the way. he can't win when we're silent in the face of white supremacy, and the face of anti-semitism. >> old habits are hard to break. >> the question is they lose in 2017, post charlottesville. they lose in 2018. they lose in 2019, governorships in louisiana and kentucky. they lose in 2020. everything. they lose in 2022. so you know my next question, okay. you're not going to be converted for the right reason, when are you going to be converted for the wrong reason because you're going to stay out of power. i thought republicans were supposed to be sinister and smart and know how to play this

game. >> basically they're sitting around waiting for somebody else to take care of this for them. they're hoping something is going to come along. you go first, you do this. if you want an interesting historical tidbit about the failure, one of the new republicans that spoke out against this over the weekend, chris christie, by the way, congratulations to the former governor, but if you look at the video of donald trump lying and denying that he knew who david duke was, guess who's standing right behind him. so there's a lot of history here that now that we're losing, we might speak out, but there are very very few, and i guess this is the habit, the fear, the assumption that, you know what, if he keeps going this way, he'll implode. don't help him by saying anything about him. it's extraordinary, members of congress, his rivals for the 2024 nomination. i want to stress that also this is, and i think you mentioned

this before, this is a little bit next level because nick fuentes is an over neo-nazi. it's also next level because there are a lot of people in maga world who know who nick fuentes is, who despise him. he's a very divisive figure. the notion that donald trump does not know who this was or understand what he's doing is incredibly naive. >> it would be hard for anyone to believe that at this point. what do we know, marc caputo, about this dinner, about any interaction trump had from nick fuentes. >> milo, a far right provocateur from 2016 is the de facto campaign manager for kanye west's not yet existent and maybe never existent presidential campaign. he was the one who set this up. he had this adviser of trump's from 2016 pick up kanye west,

nick fuentes and a third person from the miami international airport, drive them to this dinner. at that point, they talked their way in according to them. kanye was on the list. the three others weren't. at the dinner, things got heated as you described earlier when kanye west decided to troll the troll and tell donald trump that he should be his running mate. that made trump rather angry. from what we understand, nick fuentes did impressive donald trump, they didn't discuss anti-semitism, racism or the like. instead fuentes laid it on kind of thick and praised donald trump as his hero. said he loved donald trump, but he thought donald trump was erring and too much now a product of the establishment, and so this kanye faction allegedly showed up with the idea that they wanted to bring donald trump back to the donald trump of 2016. not the plastic donald trump of the establishment that they say

he's now become. so it was a really sort of bizarre dinner. probably one of those things all of us wish we could have witnessed in some way, shape or form, and eventually ended as you noted with donald trump sort of yelling at kanye west and nick fuentes saying you're a smart guy, you're working for kanye. there's no way he can beat me, and wound up insulting kim kardashian when kanye west objected to as well. >> the best way to avoid having dinner with an anti-semite you don't know is to avoid having dinner with an anti-semite you do know. which kanye west is, which donald trump knew who he was, and believes all sort of abhorrent things. this is a familiar pattern from donald trump where it's not just david duke, it's the proud boys, qanon, where he claims to have no knowledge of a group that espouses hateful rhetoric because he doesn't want to condemn them because he knows a

lot of their members support him. how worried are you, though, that he's giving another platform to hateful, terrible violent rhetoric at a time when we see hate crimes on the rise. >> what concerns me is that the republican party has not just unequivocally across the board denounced donald trump for doing this. you have to look at the fact that i've had gatherings, dinners, get togethers with former presidents and bill clinton, barack obama, and george wright. you can't get in their presence without being cleared. i don't care if you showed up and they cleared you an hour after you showed up or not, there are signals given. he knew who he was meeting with. the fact that this guy could sigh i admire donald trump, and he's a neo-nazi. why did he admire donald trump? and i want to bring him back to 2016, so who was the 2016 donald trump in this guy's mind, and here we are, what, two, three

days later, donald trump has yet to denounce this guy, yet to denounce what the guy stands for, yet to denounce anti-semitism or racism. how much does the republican party need. i'm talking about those that we considered mainstream republicans. what kind of evidence do they need before they denounce this kind of open bigotry and bias. that's what concerns me. we know who donald trump is. we know who kanye or ye or whoever he is today, we know who he is but who is the republican party? i think that's the question that we have to ask as they now become this slim majority of the house of representatives. >> all right. we'll return to conversation but we want to get a look at some of the other headlines making news this morning. now to an update on last week's deadly mass shooting inside a walmart in virginia. the fbi and chesapeake police finished processing the crime scene over the weekend. authorities say it's up to

walmart to determine what comes next for the store. six employees were shot and killed on tuesday night inside a break room by a supervisor at the store. the youngest victim was 16 years old. police say the shooter bought the handgun the morning of the shooting. he also left a note writing that he was led by satan and planned to target some employees. coworkers have said the shooter was a difficult person to work with, and known for being hostile with employees. two people were rescued early this morning from a small plane stuck roughly 100 feet above the ground after it struck a high voltage transmission tower near gaithersburg, maryland. they suffered serious but nonlife threatening injuries. they were rushed to trauma care. the single engine plane crashed last night, leaving thousands without power. the rescue was difficult because

each power line near the plane had to be tested to ensure it wouldn't harm anyone. first responders, especially, or the two people on board the plane. >> unbelievable. and comedian jay leno returned to the stage for the first time since suffering serious burns to his face. the 72-year-old performed at the southern california comedy club for a sold out show last night. weeks after being burned in a car fire. the avid car collector was seriously burned on november 12th in his los angeles garage when a vintage car he was working on erupted into flames. the former tonight show host spent ten days at a burn center where he was treated for second and third degree burns to his face, chest, and hands. jay leno lets everyone know he's okay. back on stage. >> and still ahead on "morning joe." chinese president xi jinping is facing significant criticism for continuing his zero covid

policy. we'll have a live report over protests over new lockdowns. >> really surprising images out of china, all across china. also ahead, republican governor calls out the rnc chairwoman for disappointing results in the midterms. a flop. we'll play for you those comments. plus, the january 6th committee is wrapping up its work ahead of a change in power in the house. but it appears not everybody is happy with chairwoman liz cheney's influence over the final report. that new reporting is straight ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. d. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's one that'll really take you back. wow! what'd you get, ryan?

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half past the hour, a rare scene in china, major protests erupted over president xi, and the government over lock downs. in shanghai the situation has escalated. large crowds gathered in roadways across multiple cities calling for an end to continuous lock downs for repeated covid-19 testing. some are demanding that president xi jinping and communist party leaders step down. critics of china's zero covid policy argue the social and economic toll of extreme lock downs are more costly than the benefit of trying to contain the virus. joining us now is nbc news correspondent janis mackey frayer. >> thank you so much for being with us. "the new york times" article this morning is fascinating. it talks about how xi and the government, they have been so successful at being able to

block off channels that would usually lead to collective engagement. what they have done with their covid lock down, they have united farmers with students, with entrepreneurs, with everybody across the country. how serious is this? >> reporter: well, it's effectively, it puts everybody in the same covid boat. whether they're a migrant worker from the northeast or a financier in shanghai. after nearly three years of pandemic rules, everybody is feeling worn out by this, and there was the expectation that things would get better, that things would ease, that china would open up even a little bit after the 20th congress, once the communist party had its leadership established, and that hasn't happened. if anything, the attempts to ease the covid rules have led to them bearing down even more. we're in, effectively a lock

down here in beijing. restaurants are closed, businesses are being closed. my kid is off school again for the third school year, and people are fed up with this. this has been building over months. what it needed was a catalyst. there was this deadly fire that killed ten people. people saw that as a reason to take to the streets and they're calling for an end to these restrictions. they want freedom from it. they want to be able to live normal lives. they see the rest of the world doing it. it's at the point that state television is having to cut away to different scenes at the world cup broadcast. they don't want to make people angry at the fact that all of the fans in the crowds aren't wearing masks anymore. there is widespread discontent, and that is now spilling out into the streets. people want change, and xi jinping has some hard choices to

make, and they're going to need to be made soon. the unrest is showing no signs of slowing down and could very well spread. >> and just truly remarkable these pictures here, amid some of the protesters calling for xi to step down. what has been the chinese government response to these protests? have they said anything, done anything? >> silence doesn't exist on chinese internet. state media has not said anything, except propping up the zero covid policy saying it is the path to successfully defeating the virus. the leadership has not said anything today. the regular ministry of foreign affairs briefing, officials who are evasive and not directly addressing the protests or the growing anger against the zero covid policy. i was at the protests in beijing last night. it went until 2:30 in the

morning. people were holding up the pieces of paper as a protest against censorship. they were singing the national anthem, and i'm not sure if you'll recall but during the shanghai lock down, the national anthem became such a rallying cry for people during the lock down that sensors banned some of the lyrics from the country's own national anthem. calling on people to rise up if they do not wish to be slaves. arise, arise, arise. all of these themes are coming to the surface, and people really feeling a sense of unity, no matter what corner of the country they're in, that they want to do what they can with their voices, with this sense of action to try and get some of these restrictions reduced. and i just want to make one more quick point. when we talk about zero covid here, what we're talking about is when there's the quarantines, the mask testing, the limits on

mobility, but in china when you get covid, you don't take a few days off work and ride it out at home. when you get covid here, they track you down, and come and take you to a hospital, and take your family to a quarantine center, the shipping container camps that we're seeing being built at a frantic rate. you stay in the system until the system says you can leave. this is what people are frustrated with as well. it's all of the limits on mobility. it's businesses being forced to close down. people losing money. people losing their jobs, but it's this sense of a loss of freedom that comes with this policy and people saying enough is enough. that it's got to change. >> nbc's janis mackey frayer, thank you very much for your reporting. we appreciate it. and joining us now, the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass, and nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons joins us as well. >> richard, you and i have been

having this conversation for some time. it started three years ago on the front of your journal. it was the most exclusive journal. >> foreign affairs is what you're searching for, joe. >> yeah, kind of important. >> which you never let me write an article for. >> you have to subscribe first. >> i've got to pay my dues first, and then subscribe. exactly. so we joked about you had put the authoritarians on the cover. i said, richard, that's going to be like sport illustrated. it took four years, but you and i have been talking over the past six months that authoritarianism actually after having this moment three years ago is on the decline, and you tweeted last night something beautiful that sort of encapsulates a lot of what we have been saying. a month ago if you would have predicted that joe biden would

face fewer and less significant domestic challenges than his opposite number in china, russia and japan. we have a great deal to work on still but you are right. right now, the authoritarians are on the run, aren't they? >> they are on the run. in part, they're the targets of what you might call populism and anti-status quo-ism around the world. they are victims of what they're doing. china is the perfect example. the zero covid policy is failing and it's not going to succeed. this rejection of the mrna vaccines, this is xi jinping's policy. and you have a society that's increasingly fed up. there's no way out. the word dilemma is overused. what he has too is increasingly repress the people.

if he does this also, you're not only going to have protests, the economy is going to tank, but if he lets go, and he has to then admit he was wrong, and that's a precedent he's unwilling to say. if he's wrong here, where else might he be wrong, and if people say we protest other policies, we could get change too. he's actually created a real problem for himself, not just in the health sector, but more broadly politically. by the time you've consolidated as much power in your hands as he has, by the time you get an unprecedented third term, you forfeit the ability to blame circumstances or anyone else. this is now on him. >> and keir simmons, you look, one self-inflicted wound after another. this zero covid policy has been disastrous for china. the crackdown in hong kong where he effectively took what the british built up as the economic

hub of asia. over the past couple of years, xi has destroyed that. he's declared war on jack ma and entrepreneurs and the best and brightest in his own country. what entrepreneur wants to be successful there. we could talk about the uyghurs, human rights, it's been one self-inflicted wound after the other. it's been staggering. yet, the more mistakes he makes, the more power he accumulates. >> yeah, and i think you could borrow from the clinton era, it's the economy, stupid. in the end, china, those 1.4 billion people have ridden a wave of economic growth, and that has allowed the chinese communist party to continue to hold on to power in a way that it has. i think back to a visit i made in shinjiang, and the message from chinese officials, we are

bringing economic prosperity. that was the answer about the huge question of the treatment of uyghurs, we are bringing economic growth. we are pulling people out of poverty. the trouble for china and xi jinping, if the economy is slowing down, potentially driven by this covid policy, what do you do then? what do you say to your people then? and richard is exactly right, effectively what xi has done is he's taken all of the responsibility on himself which means of course that anything that goes wrong, the law of unintended consequences, anything that goes wrong, you know, reflects on him. there's more to the challenge that he faces too because half of the people over 80 in china have not had a vaccine, have not had a booster. so if he chooses to open up the implications for older folks in china, particularly in rural areas is really serious, and in some ways, i think what's

happening in china, you can see as a social battle between urbanites, between generations. it's an enormous challenge for the chinese communist party. >> jonathan lemire, i remember speaking to john huntsman, sat down and had a one on one with him. i said mr. ambassador, what is it that the chinese communist party wants. this was at a time when everybody was saying, you know, china is growing. they're going to overtake the united states. much has changed since then. i said what do the communists want there. he said 9% growth. because if they can grow the economy at 9% every year, they don't have to worry as much about unrest across the country. he said this ten years ago. but if it falls to 3, 4, 5%, everything's up in the air, and they know it.

>> yeah, and that's the issue for them right now is that the covid policy as just documented here has tested the patient of its citizens. they were willing to put up with it because of the economic growth. it's a series of bad decisions and bet on the wrong horse in the russia, ukrainian war. they are being supportive of russia's efforts, and they're paying potentially the economic price and risks sanctions from the west. i want to turn to one of the other countries, another site of massive protests right now, and that is iran. obviously no economic growth there, but give us a sense as to what you're seeing, and how worried is that regime over protests that are erupting across the country and have for weeks now, but we're also seeing some of it on the world stage at the world cup. >> they are worried. again, 40 years since their revolution, and you're getting a degree of public defiance. particularly from the women. they're not sure how to handle

that. unlike the chinese where the chinese response is to detain and use surveillance to basically almost do a decapitation of political movements, iran is much more brute force. the problem is how do you use brute force against women and not lose widespread popular support. they haven't figured it out. the economy is in shambles. you have a political succession slow motion taking place at the highest level with the supreme leader. you have a lot going on. the answer is they don't have an answer to put it bluntly. it's true of all of these authoritarian regimes. it's hard under pressure to adapt, very hard to compromise. the fear is we'll admit we're wrong and simply fan the flames of protests, reward protests, so they want to double down or triple down. that's what we see in china. that's what we see in iran. the question is whether they can get away with it. often they can at an enormous human cost, an enormous economic cost. it's not a policy solution and neither country, particularly in

iran, you don't have it. my guess is, jonathan, at some point, this iranian regime is going to try to invent the foreign crisis in order to discredit the opposition and to wrap themselves in the flag, two possibilities. we're seeing it with some of their neighbors, the antikurdish things, and azerbaijan or the nuclear program. they may hope that the israelis or americans or saudis or someone takes action because every day that goes by, we're not looking at it anymore, they are getting closer to having the prerequisite of a nuclear bomb. my hunch is they might not mind a foreign policy problem in order to distract attention from the streets. >> keir, let me ask a question, as a movement guy here in the states, i'm looking at what's going on in china. i'm looking at what's going on in iran. what i'm looking for, is there an organized movement? is there organized groups that could really bring this protest,

this upheaval, this content to a place where it becomes more permanent and not just a spontaneous reaction? because without that you can end up fighting the autocracy and be replaced by someone that is even worse and we've seen that in other places in the world. are there organized groups and movements to guide this fervor? >> i'd add to that russia too. i think it's hard to tell in these societies, these autocratic, totalitarian societies. there's that great quote from lennon. sometimes nothing happens for a decade, and then a decade happens in a week. that's the nature of these places. so the honest answer is we don't know. we don't know how things will shift, and i think it's a really good question because in the same way that the world has seemed to shift on an axis a number of times in recent years,

that can happen again. just what richard was talking about, you know, will we see a crisis with iran, will that mean for our relations with china, with russia, those alliances we're seeing built up. another issue here is the signs of tension and divisions within the alliances on our side, if you like. in europe, there is deep disquiet about the inflation reduction act here, about its seen as a populist move, it's seen as protectionism, and the europeans that i was talking to, some lawmakers in europe over the weekend kind of scratching their heads saying what do we do about this? we can't shift this because of the politics within washington and yet this is going to damage our economy at a time when we thought we had a solid alliance with the u.s. so this is a marathon that we're in right now. i think that's one of the things that president putin is banking on, for example.

certainly xi will be expecting this to be a long play, if you like, and we are running that marathon too, and in many ways, the question is who gets to the finish line to extend the metaphor. >> we shall see. keir simmons, thank you so much for being with us. richard haass, i would normally let you go. i want to keep you around. we're going to talk some nfl. maybe we can talk about the giants. >> and keir can't? >> keir, i need to ask, i need to ask you, keir, actually stay there, keir, i need to ask you about the world cup. >> the world cup i can do. >> see. >> the world cup. it's so funny, obviously i can't believe it. but everybody where we went, the restaurant we went to to watch the england, usa game, we were all cheering at the end for the

draw because we stayed alive. i would guess the cheers weren't quite as loud in britain, were they? >> no, i stayed at home, and watched it at home, and i was glad i did. it wasn't the best day for us honestly. and trouble for england is of course we expect so much from our soccer team. we have wales next week. i'm going to be here in the u.s. i'm going to miss it. hopefully that bodes well for the result. i think we're going to qualify, but, you know, it's the world cup. one of the great things about the world cup is the unexpected results. you never quite know what's going to happen. >> it's been crazy. by the way, as you know, i'm an anglo file. lemire sent me this text after the match. he goes england's all time record against the united states, revolutionary war, lost. the war of 1812, draw. the 1950 world cup, lost.

2010 world cup, draw. s.e.c. championships, you wouldn't know what that is, 0-30 for usa. super bowls, 0-55 in the usa's favor. 2022 world cup, draw. it's irishman in him. >> you brought me on for this, didn't you. this moment. >> this is why you're here. >> you got it. all right. coming up, a live report from georgia where early voting is underway right now for the senate runoff election. plus, senator rafael warnock's latest campaign ad brings herschel walker's speeches having to the voters. we'll play their reactions straight ahead on "morning joe." >> look, there's your condo. n "" >> look, there's your condo.

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welcome back to "morning joe." there's a beautiful christmas shot of the white house. the white house occupied by a man who does not have dinner with white supremacists, fascists, nazis. >> isn't that nice? >> or holocaust deniers. >> it's a good thing to know. >> it's a nice change. >> it is a nice change. it is six minutes before the top of the hour. breathe. charlie sykes, we have developments in the fight over the future of the republican party for you. first, the house, where republican leader kevin mccarthy is struggling to secure the 218 votes needed to become speaker. his path is complicated by the gop's razor thin house majority and the small bloc of far right

members who say they oppose him. it could lead to the first floor fight for a house speaker in a century. >> charlie, this is why newt left town. he still had the majority of votes in 1998 inside the caucus, but there were five, six, seven of us who said we would never vote for him on the house floor. just had no choice but to leave. it looks like history may be repeating itself here. >> no, you think about how difficult the job is. newt gingrich had to leave, john boehner, paul ryan, and let's face it, kevin mccarthy is not a political genius. if you believe matt gaetz, big, you know, question mark there, he does not have 218 votes. so the question is, you know, how much does he have to give away to the marjorie taylor greene caucus and will he be able to bring along moderates. look, this is one of those moments where, be careful what you wish for because kevin mccarthy is about to enter a

world of hurt whether he wins this or whether he's cast aside. >> yeah, by the way, this caucus, white supremacists, she actually embraced this guy that went to the white house, and other republicans have as well. >> fawning all over him according to some reports. >> so the republican party itself is also at odds over its future. yesterday, south dakota governor kristi noem suggested rnc chair ronna mcdaniel should be replaced. >> how should the gop move forward? >> listen, sean, we need to win. that's just a fact. our kids' future depends on it, so, you know, we really all have a responsibility to message what republican policies bring to this country. and i don't know a party that can continue to lose like we have and keep their jobs. >> you know, here's the thing,

it's kind of cold but, you know, in the past if you lost in politics at the top level, you go off, write a book, give speeches. >> right. >> you know, maybe set up your library. that's it, and the losers are out. like why in the world would ronna mcdaniel. i say this because our republican friends, i guess they're slow. they lost in 2017, they lost in 2018, they lost in 2020, they lost in 2022. >> again. one, two, three, four. >> ronna mcdaniel has presided over one loss, another loss, why in the world would republicans say let's take her into 2024. >> i don't want to defend her, i think she's a deplorable failure, but as you pointed out, joe, she is not the republican party's main problem. the republican party is losing not because of ronna mcdaniel

but because of donald trump and the fact that she basically is a wholly owned subsidiary of mar-a-lago. the republican party ought to move on from somebody who has presided over all of these failures but the reality is they have a much bigger problem than ronna mcdaniel, and they won't solve their problem if they stick with trump, even if they get rid of it her. >> the problem is she sucked up to him nonstop, which you don't have the independent voice of the rnc. you don't have people protecting the party. it's a wholly owned subsidiary of donald trump, a guy who has been losing for most of his life. charlie sykes, thank you so much. we appreciate you being here, and i'll tell you this, charlie, because i love you, i'm going to spare you the packers highlights. >> too soon. the philadelphia, the eagles hosting the packers. jalen hurts ran his way to the record books setting a franchise mark for quarterbacks with 157

rushing yards in the game. and he threw for 153 yards and a pair of touchdowns for the 40-33 victory over green bay. meanwhile, packers qb, aaron rodgers left last night's match up with a rib injury as hi team slumped to a seventh loss in their last eight games. it's amazing how badly the packers are playing this year. the big touchdowns scored by winning teams across the nfl yesterday. >> a deep drop let's the routes develop. one of his first down field sacks. turns on the after burners, he's gone. touchdown jets. >> now, kareem hunt, this is schwartz, in for a browns touchdown. the bengals are in business,

burrows uncorks it, touchdown, higgins. >> allen pocket squeezes, able to get it out. the tight end, jordan aikens. miami with the recovery, powered, in for the touchdown. >> now a fake, find it deep. end zone, got a man, it's a touchdown, and washington regains the lead. >> 20 seconds to go. lawrence to the end zone, marvin jones. yes. they call it a touchdown. >> he'll have his choice, and touchdown. >> holmes a lot of time, now over the middle, he's got his man, kelce gets the block, inside the 5 and, he's in. touchdown, kansas city.

>> garoppolo, pressure, throws, deflected. jacobs right up the middle, jacobs is on his way. the raiders are going to win this game. >> the raiders win a game? it's shocking. jonathan lemire, there's so much to talk to you about here. i mean, you've got my falcons, you've got the rams just starting. just rams, horrible. just like the packers who would have seen that coming. you've got jacksonville. what a game that was yesterday. but i've got to take you to the lowly, lowly nfc south. tom brady, five and six. and yet in first place because it's not only the worst division this year, it's the worst division i think in the history of the nfl. >> they should probably disband the nfc south, we would be better off for it.

that was an annoying loss to the buccaneers, they jumped out to an early lead, sat on it for a while, gave up a late touchdown on a fourth down play with like ten seconds to go, and not only lost in overtime to a pretty terrible cleveland browns team but lost their best offensive lineman while they were at it. the bucs are still in first place but under .500. a lot of interesting stuff. jacksonville, how about the fact they got that touchdown, we showed it late, with a few seconds to go. that brought them within one. instead of kicking the point for the tie, they went for two for the win and got it. good for them. richard is upset as i am about our team's respective losses on thanksgiving. but we also see it's a strange and sort of down year for the nfl. aaron rodgers hurt, packers aren't very good this year. one exception being we showed it there at the end, patrick mahomes and the chiefs, they just keep right on rolling. >> really, i'll tell you what, we may be moving towards another

chief's 49ers super bowl. the 9ers looking good week in week out. richard, i know it was a bad weekend for you obviously. bad thanksgiving. i'm sure you were throwing the turkey. giants lost, but from what i heard, it was the most watched regular season game in nfl history. the numbers this year are just extraordinary. the nfl more popular than its ever been. speaking of new york teams, how about the jets, they keep winning too. >> jets are seriously competitive. have one of the best defenses in the league. it was a rough weekend. the giants were the only team in the nfl east to lose. but it's impressive division. i think, joe, by the way, relegation, might be an interesting innovation for the nfl, and you take certain teams and basically say the other listening to, a biblical

reference today, aaron drib or spencer tracy if you prefer. we can go with that if you like. >> richard haass, thank you. >> by the way, we talked about how badly the nfc south is. alex just told me the nfc east and the afc east, every team, winning records and what about, mika, this is what mika has been talking about. for people who said that tua wasn't an nfl quarterback, tua has proven you wrong again. isn't that what you said over thanksgiving? >> that was exactly what i said. >> did you hear that? they cut his mic. we'll get to a different type of sport now, a race, early voting, underway in georgia's senate runoff. voting again this weekend after the state's supreme court denied a republican bid to block voting on the saturday after thanksgiving. as many as 22 of the state's 159

counties let voters cast their ballots on saturday. the runoff between democratic senator rafael warnock and republican challenger herschel walker is next tuesday december 6th. meanwhile, senator warnock is out with a new ad that shows voters just simply reacting in realtime to herschel walker's puzzling campaign speeches. >> just handed him the mic, here, talk. take a look. >> here we go. >> you ever watch a stupid movie late at night, hope it's going to get better, and it don't get better, keep watching it anyway. the other night i was watching this movie called fright night freak night, some type of night, but it was about vampires. i don't know if you knew about that. >> what the hell is he talking about? >> is he serious?

is he for real. >> i'm going to tell you something i found out. a werewolf is kill a vampire. i don't want to be a vampire anymore. >> he's talking about vampires and werewolves right now. >> you all serious about this, right? >> i have been telling this other story about this bull out in the field. >> what on earth. and three of them are pregnant. >> there's no substance. there's nothing. >> you know you've got something going on. >> it makes me want to laugh, and it makes me think, we're in trouble. >> all he cared about is getting his nose against the fence, three other cows, all he had to do was eat grass. >> this video is ridiculous. that's 35 seconds of my life i'll never get back. >> why would i want someone like that leading the state of georgia. >> unbelievable. >> so their bad air got to move. >> it's all the same air. >> not only does it make no sense, i don't understand what he thinks he's saying. >> it moves on to our good air

states. and now we got to clean that back up. >> i sit and watch these on twitter, i'm like what the heck is this guy talking about. like literally, what is he talking about. >> he's completely unqualified for this really really serious job. >> no one is watching this and being like, oh, man, that guy has got it together. >> sometimes i read through the comment because i'm like is anybody actually understanding or are we just sitting here wasting time. >> it's embarrassing. let's call it what it is. it is embarrassing. >> they care about getting a yes man, somebody that will punch the button. >> i think it's a risk to me and millions of georgians to put this man in a position of power. >> let's call it what it is, embarrassing as hell. >> you know. >> oh, my god. so two great lines out of there. first of all, herschel's line, he talks about the three pregnant cows, not sure what that is. >> yucky. >> the one voter said i don't think he even understands what

he's saying. he doesn't. >> he can't. i think he's just -- keeps going. let's bring in political reporter for the "atlanta journal-constitution," greg bluestein, also member of the "new york times" editorial board, mara gay, and reverend al sharpton is still with us as well. >> greg, quite an ad, letting herschel walker's words try to speak for themselves. just going around in circles. man, the images this weekend from georgia, those lines were crazy. it looks like a lot of people very interested in this special election. what can you tell us? >> well, there's a turnout surge. senator warnock had half a dozen events over metro atlanta, rallying voters to the polls, and the turnout was huge, 156,000 voters cast ballots this weekend, mostly in metro atlanta and other democratic leaning areas. democrats are confident. meanwhile, herschel walker didn't have any public events, and that's why democrats are

confident, banking votes to give them a cushion. >> have you talked to republican leaders, republicans politicians in the state? is there any evidence? this isn't like a leading question for the msnbc crowd. i'm just generally curious. are republicans concerned about a lack of interest on their side while you have democrats obviously very excited about what happened a month ago, thinking, hey, we can get a 51st senator? >> without a doubt. the moment that democrats clinch control of the u.s. senate, it took away one of herschel walker's biggest arguments, to those skeptical voters, a vote for herschel walker was a vote for a check on president biden, a vote for senate. it's now that much harder for herschel walker to get the middle of the road skeptical republicans to come back out. many would vote for senator war knock or stay home.

>> when i was looking at the commercial that the warnock campaign put out on herschel, and i heard them kept saying, embarrassing, and there's one that you know has been involved in civil rights all my life, to think that we fought for representation and someone is clearly not qualified, just put there because he's black, he may be good at other things, i'm not taking that away from him. i mean, embarrassing, as someone looking at this, do you understand that some of the turnout we're seeing, and i'm hearing it from people i know in georgia that i work with is that we cannot change what we've achieved in terms of vote access. this is the state that martin luther king was born and buried in, by having representation that's clearly unqualified to serve in the senate. >> given what the republican party has come to stand for and stand against, which in part is

simply black people at this point and access to democracy and to citizenship, the idea that the republican party in 2022 would put forth a candidate who, among other things, is also a black man, to kind of usher in more voter repression and more of what the republican party stands for is cynical. the thing that makes it, though, really disturbing to me is just the overall message to voters, black and white, that one black man is just as good as another. one black man is the same as any black man. so it opportunity matter if you're barack obama. it doesn't matter if you're rafael warnock. it doesn't matter if you're herschel walker, they're all the same. you're all the same, and voters should see you that way. and it's also just an insult to black americans, but to all voters. >> yeah. >> that's the, i mean, sort of racist aspect of this is truly

insulting, but, greg, i just wonder, i mean, with this candidate who has now been on the national stage. he's gotten a lot of air time, ted cruz and lindsey graham sit on either side of him to help him get through interviews. it's very clear to, you know, a practical minded person that this is a mentally and intellectually impaired person. to say the least. there have been multiple women who have come out and said he's paid for abortions. he's lied about it. his adult children have come out vehemently against him, calling him a repetitive liar and womanizer. i just wonder, what is the common sense republican in georgia say about this candidate or feel about this candidate, and what are you hearing? >> there's generally three different blocks of republican voters. one are a group that doesn't believe any of these accusations, that believes it's all fake news and that's a significant portion of the republican party here. there's another that believes it

but doesn't care because they'll never vote for a democrat, and they'll always vote for the republican nominee. there's the third crucial block of voters that played the decisive role in the midterms. 200,000 voters backed governor kemp but did not support herschel walker. that was the difference between an outright republican win and the run we're in. senator warnock is making an appeal to them right now. >> it's so fascinating, this election. you know, before i said, you know, the republicans in georgia seem more reasonable. they still seem like main street republicans compared to those crazy republicans in arizona, then those crazy republicans in arizona ended up not being so crazy. they're like, wait a second, we will vote for republicans and they did. i mean, they voted for republicans up and down the ticket. they sent them to congress. they just didn't vote for the crazy ones, which i just -- i find fascinating that arizona

and georgia are still so much alike. both in '20 and in '22. what can you tell me? is there sort of a battle for the future of the republican party in georgia and i would just say as a former republican, are the main street republicans my sort of old faction, are they getting the upper hand right now? >> i would say there's been a civil war in the republican party in georgia for years. i would say right now the mainstream republicans in georgia are ascendant. brad raffensperger won. brian kemp won. all of these pro trump challengers with the exception of herschel walker, really, lost their statewide primary challenges or their statewide primaries, and so it's herschel walker who stands alone. in that sense, too, even without donald trump's endorsement, he could have very well emerged as the republican nominee because of his name recognition, his

ties to university of georgia football. because of all of those sort of intangible qualities he has. those stories you heard, we have had them on the campaign trail for weeks. these are not oneoffs. he has talked about the cow story over and over again. when voters hear them in person, did he really say that, is he really talking about that. >> he does it again and again. >> that's the challenge republicans have. >> does he know -- what's he saying with the cow story? a political reporter for the atlantic journal institution, greg bluestein, thank you very much. reverend al, we understand, preachers and politicians retell stories, but the cow story, gets three cows pregnant, he's got something going on. talking about pregnant cows and vampires and werewolves, you're thinking he just got out in

front of himself and didn't know where to land that plane in that story, but greg tells us this is part of his stick. >> the fact that he continues to do means he didn't just know how to land the plane the one time he was making the speech. he doesn't know how to operate the plan because he keeps bringing the plane back up that he doesn't know how to land, and a man accused of trying to get four women or persuading four women to get an abortion to be talking about cows and bulls and something's going on there. i mean, there's a disconnect here with reality that there's certain things he needs to try not even to imply or insinuate that would bring people back to his negatives. i mean, it's the most amazing display of political malfunction i have seen in the process.

to have a candidate like this is the ultimate cynical move that donald trump did. i'm going to just put a black guy out there well known against a black guy because all of them are the same, and it doesn't matter. he's got more name recognition than rafael warnock. that was the thinking, and the fact that the georgia republican party allowed donald trump to intimidate them into doing it, and now kemp is supporting it, is outright ridiculous. >> the celebrity thing, it's caused chaos in georgia. it lost the senate seat in pennsylvania with dr. oz. it lost in arizona where they've got a tv anchor that everybody in phoenix knows. they lost that race. i mean, the celebrity stuff has not worked well. >> no, and in arizona, the celebrity stuff, there was a real thought that it might work. it did not. former president and current presidential candidate donald trump is now distancing himself

from a known white nationalist after hosting him for dinner at mar-a-lago last week. on tuesday, trump welcomed anti-semite nicholas fuentes to his palm beach estate. also there, kanye west who has recently faced backlash for anti-semitic comments of his own, as well as a former trump campaign staffer. now, a source tells nbc news that trump was very impressed with fuentes, a holocaust denier who the former president now claims he did not know beforehand. >> it's crazy, maura, republicans have always been so self-righteous about their support for israel. and you'll hear donald trump asking the question, why don't more jews vote for us. they only get like 30, 35% of the jewish vote, republicans, usually in national elections. why don't more jewish people

vote for us. here's trump hugging an anti-semite who has gone out of his way even mocking adidas, i can say all the anti-semitic things i want to say, and you can't do anything about it. a holocaust denier, a guy who jokes about victims of the holocaust being burnt cookies. a guy who's an open fascist, neo-nazi, white supremacist, and he walks into the white house and republicans silent. for the most part, silent, and they wonder why they keep losing elections. >> that's right. i mean, a lot of attention is paid to parts of the jewish community that do actually support the republican party, and of course that's a very real phenomenon. but the reality is, and i don't have the numbers in front of me, that the majority of american jews do vote democratic, and when you see these pictures of donald trump with nick fuentes,

you know why. because every closed door, you have to wonder, what are people really thinking, what do they think about me, my people, whether you're black, whether you're jewish, and this is one of those icky moments where it was said out loud. it's extremely disturbing, and i'm also just embarrassed on the international stage, to have a former president paling around with these people. it's an embarrassment to all of us. >> it is. joining us political investigators reporter for the guardian, hugo lowell, and you have a new report that the former president made clear he does not want to criticize nick fuentes for fear of antagonizing a devoted part of his base. tell us more about that. >> that's right. we were hearing over the weekend that trump got calls from a number of aides in the wake of his dinner saying he really needed to denounce nick fuentes

because he's a problematic figure and the fact that he was having dinner with not just one anti-semite but two, he needed to do something to distance himself from the entire fare. they were giving him drafts of language, you know, really making it easy for trump to denounce nick fuentes, and he could not bring himself to do it. at some point he said, look, i'm not going to denounce nick fuentes. the best i'll do is say i don't know him. that was the bottom line and at some point aides gave up and said, we can take the horse to water but we can't make it drink. the fact that he would remove these lines out of statements, he would remove language saying nick fuentes is unashamedly a bad guy, that speaks volumes. and jonathan lemire, nothing new about this, by the way, following up on what mara was talking about. donald trump only got 30% of the jewish vote, 70% going to joe

biden in 2020. but jonathan lemire, again, this is nothing new. like, donald trump, people say, he's not a fascist, he refuses to condemn fascists. he refuses to condemn neo-nazis. chancemen say, oh, i don't know who david duke is, as you pointed out earlier, i don't know who david duke is. i don't know what the klan was. i don't know about the proud boys. i don't know about q, and now he's saying i don't know who nick fuentes is. oh, he does, he does, and he refuses to condemn this nazi. >> he refuses to condemn all the domestic folks as well as the likes of vladimir putin and kim jong un and fascists across the world stage. this is what he does. and certainly, hugo, this is in part as you have reported, he

doesn't want to alienate what he knows is part of his political base. this moment comes just two weeks or so after his rather lackluster announcement of his new presidential campaign. he is still the most powerful voice in the party. it is still his party. so let's take this with a grain of salt. there does seem to be republicans willing to step in and criticize what he's doing, republicans willing to mount their own presidential bid. how concerned are the people around trump that maybe this could fracture at least somewhat his gop support. >> i think there are two elements to concern about. the first thing is they're really alarmed at the fact that he will give such extraordinary deference of his base. nick fuentes is lucky to get 2,000 followers on his site. if he gives play to him, it will turn off more moderate maga republicans. because they really don't care

and they don't appreciate his extremist tendencies. the other thing they are looking at, though is the number of republicans that come out and condemn trump. you've got people like chris christie, you know, hitting on trump for having dinner with nick fuentes but you don't see anyone else yet. breathing a sigh of relief, look, we have been here before with trump making problematic comments, whether it was "access hollywood," the barometer is if a lot of congressional republicans, potential nominees start criticizing trump, that's a bad sign and that shows they're ready to start hitting trump, and that could be a problem for the convention. >> yes, it could, political investigations reporter for the guardian, hugo lowell, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> and still ahead on "morning joe," a community in idaho is still on edge more than two weeks after the killing of four college students. we'll have the latest in that murder mystery. plus, jay leno returns to

the stage following a fiery accident that left him hospitalized for ten days. and then we're turning to the world cup, and the massive match for the team usa coming up tomorrow in qatar. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. r. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. before we begin, i'd like to thank our sponsor, liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. and by switching, you could even save $652. thank you, liberty mutual. now, contestants ready? go! why? why?

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what if we wanted to electrify all of this... 100% carbon free... is it possible? ♪♪ aes has been leading energy transitions for decades... and is partnering with the worlds leading companies to decarbonize industries... cities, and nations. even the internet. is it possible? can we reliably power the things we love and green the planet at the same time? yes... aes. i'm a big fan of your show, and i always wonder why, when you and willie, joe, talk sports. i enjoy it. i'm not a sports guy. i don't care about sports. i like to know what's going on. and mika gets so upset with the two of you when you speak

sports. i start yelling, mika, either let them talk sports or let's eliminate sports from the show. there's a lot we have to work out. mika seems genuinely annoyed when you speak sports. >> that's real, yeah. >> howard stern is our producer now, alex. he says we should eliminate sports. thank you, howard. >> you have to either embrace it, right, or just let it go. >> practice acceptance. >> radical acceptance, i think, they call it. so let's practice it now. >> okay. >> let's see. i'm not going to tell you to smile. >> howard said eliminate it. >> no, he said you -- he said he likes it. >> he does. >> he doesn't really follow sports. >> he doesn't like my yammering. >> the grimacing every time. >> oh, sorry.

howard. okay. that's sort of a crusty the clown. >> it was. so anyway, we're going to do some more sports, mika. >> good. >> how are you doing? >> i actually love soccer, so. >> yesterday's action at the world cup saw a second team officially eliminated from the knockout contingent. oh, canada. i hated to see this. out of the competition after two matches in qatar following its opening loss to belgium with a 4-1 defeat against 2018 runner up croatia. germany came away with a 1-1 draw against spain yesterday. they're going to need to beat costa rica to avoid a second straight early elimination from the four-time world cup champion. that would be something. team usa will need to beat iran in a politically charged match tomorrow afternoon. a draw or a loss eliminates team usa. wales and england, two ties, no wins, but, hey, here's your consolation trophy. england, 4 points followed by

iran with 3, the u.s. with 2 and wales with 1. iran is a good team, and that should be pretty fascinating match tomorrow. let's bring in ceo of soccer, box.com, gary hopkins, also the author of the book, star spangled soccer. gary, it's always great to talk to you. you know, in the world cup, there are always surprises. while we're on the show today, cameroon coming back. you know, there's been one surprise after another, saudi arabia, morocco, it's been a really fascinating world cup, hasn't it? to a degree, it's been a shocking world cup. results that no one would really expect. to see germany lose, argentina lose, those are teams that don't lose at world cups. to see those happen has been remarkable this early in the game.

they have a chance to regroup, which is the beauty of it. they get a chance to see a second or third game. all of a sudden they'll be there at the end, near the end, both teams. the usa itself now has its biggest game for a long long time coming up tomorrow. they've played well against wales. they should have had the points, a great first half, and the game, they'll regret not winning, and they have the chances. the england game itself was remarkable. kids that play for the usa, they're not scared of england. they play juventus. they're not afraid of the sort of, you know, the stars of the england team. the england team is worth about 1.2 billion. the u.s. about 300 million. these kids, they're young, brave, they play week in, week out. in top leagues, champions leagues. when they face england now, it's not a big fear.

i think they showed it on friday. i thought they were very very unlucky. going to support the usa as well. have they taken their chances they would have. it's a tough group, but, you know, we have a runoff game now. >> the u.s. did so in front of a significant tv audience, about 20 million people watching. u.s. partial hosts of the nashua cup in four years. that's the future. the game tomorrow versus iran. obviously some significant geopolitical backdrop to this one, between these two countries. let's focus on the pitch. i think iran doesn't come to mind as a futbol power house. they did beat wales the other way after getting trounced by england, we should note. this seems like a pretty even matchup. >> iran are better than you think. usa has to take the three chances they're going to get tomorrow in the game. if they take them, they should go through, if they don't, it will be very very close. >> i was in the france in '98 when the usa played iran, and

iran beat them 2-1. i don't think that will happen again, but the u.s. needs to take the chances. an even game but u.s. 2-1 with a late goal. >> so let me ask you, gary, who's the cream of the crop? who's the best team right now? is it france? >> i think it's hard to look past france. brazil looks sharp. from everything i have seen so far, france has so much fire power, good going back, good going forward. can't look much farther than france. we have seen a work up of shocks. we'll see. i think france would be my favorite if i had to pick one. >> gary hopkins, so great to see you. thank you for being on the show this morning. and coming up, the fight for the future. i love soccer, my dad made us play soccer. >> your dad used to always watch the polish matches. i should have asked him about poland, a chance to get through

the group stage. your dad would have loved that. the fight for the future of the republican foreign policy and the run up to 2024, our next guest says the gop should look to ronald reagan. we'll explain straight ahead on "morning joe." reagan we'll explain straight ahead on "morning joe." you've put your dreams on hold. remember this? but i spoke to our advisor, and our vanguard investments are on track. “we got this, babe.” so go do what you love. thanks for being our superhero. only at vanguard, you're more than just an investor—you're an owner. giving you flexibility to follow your dreams. that's the value of ownership. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪things are getting clearer♪ ♪i feel free to bare my skin♪ ♪yeah, that's all me♪ ♪nothing and me go hand in hand♪ ♪nothing on my skin♪ ♪that's my new plan♪

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let us pray for the salvation of all of those who live in that totalitarian darkness, pray they will discover the joy of knowing god. but until they do, let us beware that while they preach the supremacy of the state, declare its omnipotence over individual man and domination over all people's on the earth, they are the focus of evil in the modern world. so in your discussions of the nuclear freeze proposals, i urge you to beware of the temptation of pride, temptation of declaring yourselves above it all, and label both sides equally at fault, to ignore the

facts of history and the aggressive impulses of an evil empire, to call the giant arms race a misunderstanding and remove yourself from the struggle of right and wrong and good and evil. >> my gosh, you could actually lift those words from ronald reagan's speech 40 years ago to today. where there are people in the republican party, ronald reagan's party, that are saying, oh, i'm cheering for russia or there's not really a difference between russia and ukraine or oh, the ukrainians are corrupt or why are we spending so much money trying to defend freedom against an invading russian force. i can't believe how relevant that speech is today. >> it really is. >> that was then president ronald reagan speaking at the national association of evangelicals in orlando, florida, back in 1983. it was the first time president reagan used the term evil empire

when referring -- >> people got spot when he called the soviet union the evil empire despite the fact they had killed tens of millions of their own people. >> he was referring to the soviet union before it would become one of the more well known phrases of the 20th century. joining us now, author william inbotten, his new book is quite ld "the peacemaker" ronald reagan, the cold war, you write this, above all, reagan sought to turn soviet strengths into liabilities. he believed that the massive red army, warsaw pact vessels, soviet support for the third world communist movements and the kremlin's control of its own people all displayed the soviet system's weakness rather than its power. reagan pursued a comprehensive cold war strategy that sought to

rebuild america's strengths and pose them against the soviet union across virtually every dimension, an alliance system built on choice versus the coerced policy of the warsaw pact, weapons systems that outmatched their soviet counter parts and opened society against a closed one, self-government against dictatorship, religious faith against atheism, freedom over tyranny. >> again, this is what richard haass and i were just talking about this morning, the headlines, william, coming out of iran, out of china, out of russia this morning could not line up more with your words there describing ronald reagan's core belief that in the end, freedom wins, dictatorships lose. >> absolutely. i'm struck as both of you are,

joe and mika, how we seem to be living through a moment of resurgent tyrannies with russia, china and iran, and people in those countries wanting their freedom, and looking to america for support. and this was of course president reagan's great insight that people fighting for their freedom are america's allies, and they need to welcome america's support, and that was the key to bringing the cold war to a peaceful victory. >> mow interesting. obviously he caught a lot of grief for the use of the term evil empire. he talked about peace through strength, and i was struck by the name of your book, the peacemaker. it reminded me of what ronald reagan called the mx missile, the peace keeper, which of course outraged many people on the left and of course a lot of people across europe because reagan kept talking about that the soviet union would only

collapse if we showed a strong hand. he, of course was proven right, wasn't he? >> yeah, he sure was. i'm glad you mentioned the title since i've got a lot of questions about that. the title comes from mikel gorbachev, when reagan died, he made the moving, surprising appearance at reagan's memorial and said he was a great peacemaker, and yet as you point out, reagan believed in peace through strength, not peace through surrender. and as you opened with stirring words of calling the soviet union an evil empire, it's important to remember that reagan was wildly criticized at the time for saying that. it was seen as brinksmanship, moralistic, too provocative. but we have wonderful testimonies from soviet dissidents in the gulag or in prison in the soviet union at the time, and when they heard reagan had called their captors, their oppressive government an evil empire, they felt overjoyed, finally someone would

tell the truth, and we'll have an advocate that would speak with moral clarity. tom clancy has a moving testimony about that. >> that is so fascinating, the words after the soviet union fell that came from dissidents who would get through one way or another, they would get the message that reagan was calling the soviet union what it really was. gave them hope to fight on. jonathan lemire, let's talk about the fight inside the republican party right now because you have republicans taking over the house. we certainly know where mitch mcconnell's senate is going to go. they're going to be on the side of ukraine, on the side of ukrainians, on the side of doing whatever they can to help the liberation of ukraine, based on mitch mcconnell's recently statements and others in the senate. not so much in the house. you have republicans in the house saying we need to turn our back on ronald reagan's legacy. we need to stop supporting this

freedom movement in ukraine. is there a possibility that they will hold up support of ukraine in their war against an invading russian force? >> there is a possibility, but a little less than it was a few weeks ago, when it looked like the republicans might win the house by a larger measure, and we should back up for a moment, and note that mccarthy, of course, about a month back said there wouldn't be a blank check for ukraine going forward, and that set off a really strong response from the white house, and a number of republicans, including mcconnell who said, whoa, this is important, we're going to keep sending kyiv the weapons and money it needs. since then, mccarthy has walked that back a little bit. only won the house by a couple of seats. therefore there's a sense they will keep the money going. white house is preparing, though, for it to change. they think the process is going

to slow down. they think less money will probably go from washington to ukraine. so it's not like the faucet is going to turn off as one white house aide put it to me in the last week or so, but they do think the amount of water coming out is going to slow down, joe, and that is a concern as that war really starts to lock into place here. it's a little bit of the muddy season ahead of the deep winter in ukraine. russia targeting ukrainian infrastructure, this war is not going anywhere and ukraine is going to keep needing the americans' help. >> our thanks to william imboden, thank you very much for coming on to talk about your new book. "the peacemaker, ronald reagan, the cold war and the world on the brink." >> reverend al, isn't it crazy, you hear those words, and you weren't in support of ronald reagan on all fronts. did james brown go in and meet ronald reagan, by the way?

>> he went in 1982, took me with him the first time i went to the white house. he liked ronald reagan. we used to argue about reagan and bush and lee atwater, he thought they were fine men. i was always outraged, but he liked reagan. >> always outraged. but what i saw going to say when i talk about reagan, and his view, a lot of democrats felt like reagan, dr. brzezinski was offered a job in the reagan administration, and he constantly consulted with them because a lot of democrats shared the same view that the evil empire needed to be stared down. so when i say this, i'm not just talking about reagan. though he certainly was the main champion of it, but amazing youd you lift his words and dr. brzezinski's word and say sam nun's words and other people's

words and so relevant to what's going on right now in russia, ukraine and china and iran. >> it is amazing when you listen to the view of iran on president reagan's speech how relevant it is today and what struck me is talking to evangelicals in orlando, florida. what happened to those evangelicals today? i'm looking at the setting that he is talking and what he is saying, i wouldn't have thought this way 30 years ago. we need that ronald reagan and those evangelicals today. >> i want to talk about this movement, this freedom movement and how remarkable it is, first of all you see what women did in america. i'm not comparing america to iran. america is great. everybody knows i like america

and believe in american exceptionalism. full stop. women were ignited this year in america and you see also young women in iran facing far worse circumstances in iran but young women in middle schools all across iran, women in ukraine. that story early on that woman saying that -- giving the russian soldier saying put this in the pocket so when you die and your body rots sun flowers will rise up. i'm not going to say this is the year of the woman but, man! it is pretty impressive. the freedom movements are supercharged by women. >> it is. it is a point of enormous hope and watching the iranian soccer

team pay homage to that. i thought that was special, too, because obviously women weren't on the field but there's a sense of solidarity there, as well. it is a point of enormous hope and when you see what's happening in ukraine thinking about the fight for american democracy. of course it is not apples to apples. we all understand that but across the world just as ronald reagan talked about still 40 years later what we are dealing with is a battle between good and evil and dock and those that want power for power's sake to keep it for themselves. i wish that wasn't so close to home here in the united states thinking about january 6, 2021. but the reality is that's a battle that we have to continue to fight and it is really reassuring to go back to listen

to ronald reagan, somebody certainly not a favorite in my household growing up but you can look back and we still had a sense of common purpose. let's come together and let's still fight for democracy and human rights. >> a sense of common purpose. >> absolutely. >> exciting. >> thank you very much for being on this morning. coming up, a next guest said if anyone had doubt about donald trump's embrace of bigotry and division it's clarifying to see him spend time openly with notorious anti-semites. the head of the anti-defamation league jons us at the top of the hour. "morning joe" will be right back. get refunds.com powered by innovation refunds can help your business get a payroll tax refund,

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all right. welcome back the "morning joe." it is two minutes before the top of the hour. time far look at the morning newspapers. "the arkansas gazette" covers the law enforcement units investigating voter fraud in the midterms. there's no indication of systemic problems or election fraud following the november election. according to "the atlanta journal constitution" the city leads the country in income inequality. experts say the racial disparities drive much of the income inequality. "the press and sun-bulletin" leads with pandemic fraud in new york. the results found that fraudsters ripped off $400 million of pandemic aid and unemployment benefits intended for new yorkers.

experts say pandemic fraud exceeds previous emergency aid including the aftermath of 9/11. and in iowa "the des moines register" covers the record setting black friday. shoppers spent more than $9 billion online shopping on friday representing about a 2% growth in spending compared to last year and surpasses the previous record set in 2020. back now to the top story. former president and current presidential candidate donald trump is trying to distance himself from a known white nationalist after having dinner with him hosting him at mar-a-lago. >> and despite the fact he won't criticize him because he doesn't want to offend him and the white nationalist followers. >> sort of trying to have it both ways. on tuesday trump welcomed

anti-semite niklas fuentes to the palm beach estate. a source says that trump was very impressed with fuentes who is a holocaust denier. >> he claimed he didn't know david duke and did. didn't know the proud boys were but he did. he didn't know -- go down the long list. didn't know what qanon was but he did. >> he did know kanye west was there and faced backlash. the former president trump and candidate is lying saying he has no idea who he had for dinner at mar-a-lago. he had secret service detail and also this club where the classified documents were found is pretty well organized.

not like someone just walks in there. while top republicans are noticeably silent, some members of the gop are speaking out against the meeting. congresswoman liz cheney tweeted that trump's actions were indefensible. ronna mcdaniel wrote white supremacy, hate speech and bigotry are dig gusting and do not have a home in the republican party. former new jersey governor chris christie a former member of trump's campaign team told "the new york times" this is just another example of an awful lack of judgment from drmpb which combined with his past poor judgments makes him an untenable general election candidate for the republican party in 2024.

trump's former secretary of state mike pompeo, another potential candidate for the 2024 gop nomination tweeted -- >> he can never bring himself to mention donald trump's name. such a coward. he won't call out donald trump. this continues. >> he says here anti-semitism is a cancer and stands with the jewish people. we also heard reaction from congressman james comber who could chair the house oversight committee and had this to say. >> well, certainly needs better judgment in who he dines with. he issued a statement and said he didn't know who those people were but my focus is going to be on investigating the current administration as the next chairman of the house oversight

committee to get a handle on the waste, fraud and abuse. i wouldn't take a meeting with that person or kanye west. >> there you go. joining us now the ceo and national director of the national anti-defamation league, jonathan greenblatt. >> thank you for being with us. donald trump found somebody that made kanye west's anti-semitism mild by comparison. as donald trump lies and says he doesn't know who this guy is he said the same thing about david duke. he won't criticize him not wanting to offend. the list goes on. i said to mika this weekend. i wonder if you agree that it's hard to ever say that trump will reach the bottom because he

keeps showing us that -- even by trumpian standards this dinner and refusal to condemn this nazi seems to have crossed the rubicon even for trump. >> this must feel like it is to be on d-list when you give career advice to west and i wake this morning and only thing that's surprising to me is anyone is still surprised. you went through the litany of things he's done. what i talked on the show before about the normalization of hate. and imagine that we're having this conversation when we are mourning the dead in colorado springs. five people gunned down because they're lgbtq.

last week a shooting averted when the nypd apprehended two men with an automatic gun, knives and bullets and going to attack a synagogue. this is what donald trump and with whom donald trump wants to spend his time. i mean -- i suppose every presidential season, right, we always have an outlier candidate. i think now we need to confront the reality that this season it's donald trump because when you spend your time as you said at the bottom of the barrel that's where the public and politician and the press should treat you. you don't deserve our time. >> "the wall street journal" editorial board has a piece writing in part quote donald

trump's presidential campaign is barely two weeks old and already it has the trademarks of bad company and bad judgment. mr. trump's failure to vet visitors is an example of his usual lack of organization and discipline and worse is that mr. trump hasn't admitted the mistake in hosting the men or distanced himself from the views of mr. fuentes. instead mr. trump portrays himself as an innocent taken avenue of by mr. west. this is all too typical of the behavior as president. he isn't going to change and the next two years will feature many more such damaging episodes. republicans who continue to go along for the ride with mr. trump are teeing themselves up for disaster in 2024. as they have for the past four -- >> 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022.

>> count them. >> add 2024? >> all so fun. >> we talk all the time you and i offline about how we have grown through the years. how we have had people that set us straight. mika sets me straight all the time. you talk about coretta scott king saying move faubd and made a huge difference. jonathan i know you want to go but it bears repeating that we have people that say no to them. donald trump doesn't have somebody that can even tell him go out and apologize for the dinner because you know this guy's an neo-nazi. >> absolutely. the people around you to say that can only say that if they are talking to you about who you really are so when a mrs. king

said to me, al, you can't use that language. i don't care if it's slang or unintended or if you're playing to the cheap seats. i'm not that and i don't want to come off as that. donald trump has no problem coming off as that. as we have had frank conversations about that in terms of me and others and jonathan and i have conversations. i'm talking about this jonathan greenblatt. has had -- jonathan would get flack. you do what al reverend and have to be straight up with jonathan. i was misunderstood. i should have done this. we grow in a relationship. that's why we can put a hate summit together at the white house. >> that's right. >> what i think is most disturbing is donald trump not only not denounced fuentes he

has denounced what he hands for and now he doesn't want to offend that part of the base so if your base is not seen like white supremacist what are we taking him seriously for? >> totally right. that's really funny. not bad dinner guests. right? this is another day in the life. yes, it is appalling and unconscionable and entirely in character for donald trump. the only thing to surprise is that anyone is surprised. listen to don bacon the congressman not seeking presidential spot in the cycle who condemned him. we need more republicans and people in public life without an agenda simply to say you can't meet with neo-nazis and expect

to be accepted in the public conversation. >> seems that in trump's truth social posts far more concerned that kanye west could beat him for the nomination than denouncing anything or views held by the people there. you alluded to violence or near violence and also just so much in the air because of people with big public profiles. kyrie irving was suspended now playing again for the nets. when's the last time it felt like this? >> seems like at every moment we reach a new crisis point. we have amazon continuing to platform and publish a horrific movie that irving got appropriately in trouble for. musk granting amnesty to the people who rejected from the

platform because they spew hate and making threats. so the normalization of hate is real. people are alarmed and the anxiety levels are higher than in memory. we have presidential candidates frolicking around with fascists. >> that would be difficult. ceo of the anti-defamation league, thank you. a couple of other news making headlines. the country's fourth large esz city under a boil order water order. it covers 2.2 million people in the houston area after a power outage at a treatment plant. this morning the mayor of houston tweeted they believe the water is safe but a state agency has to test the water before the order can be lifted. the mayor said the results may

not come until late tonight or tomorrow. for the second time in three months democrat mary peltola won the alaska at large seat. in august becoming the first native alaskan seated in congress after winning the special election to replace don young who died in march. in both elections she defeated 2008 vice presidential candidate sarah palin. meanwhile republican senator lisa murkowski won another term and handed another los to former president trump defeating the endorsed candidate. the results in both races delayed in part because of the state's new ranked choice voting system. >> a lot to talk about there. jonathan, a lot to talk about there. sarah palin losing i think in part because of the ranked

choice system but listening to sarah palin and campaigning saying positive things about the democratic opponent, saying that they were friends. really shows that ranked voting which i think other state wills start adopting, really discourages the rhetorical flame throwing because you are not just playing to a small base. there's a ranked voting. don't want to go out and say these people are evil. that group is bad. so it certainly looked -- one part of the story. second part is lisa murkowski. >> hello. >> like, the tea partiers tried to get rid of her. they lost. trump tried to get rid of heifer. he lost. it is praetd remarchible that murkowski keeps winning against

the odds. >> you are right to identify the ranked choice system prevents the overt negative. we saw the same in new york city for the mayor's race a year or so ago and this does seem like it perhaps ends sarah palin's political career after the two losses this cycle. but mush murkowski is a great point. she is a survivor and wins despite working across party lines. a republican in the senate known to work with democrats on a number of important issues. she has been freed perhaps because of the independence of alaska to criticize donald trump as as much as trump does have a hold on a lot of the party we see states like mitt romney in

utah and murkowski in alaska and mar-a-lago in another scandal with the meeting free up to more republicans feel like hey we can take a chance to alienate trump's supporters and condemn what he did? department of justice is reportedly looking to question mike pence about trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election and the former vice president may cooperate. "the new york times" reports pence could agree to meet with the doj despite rejecting a similar meeting with the house january 6 select committee. "the times" quotes complicating the situation is whether mr. trump tries to invoke executive privilege to stop him or limit the testimony, a step taken with limited success so far with other former officials.

>> u.s. supreme court said no many times to donald trump. >> speaking to the doj would be very interesting. an ongoing investigation. okay. so it's now been more than two weeks since four university of idaho students stabbed to death in their home. gabe gutierrez has more on the unanswered questions that are shaking a small community to its core. >> reporter: this morning what would typically be a bustling college campus with students returning from break is instead shaken. it's been more than two weeks since four university of idaho students stabbed to death blocks from campus inside a rental house. police say two others who lived there apparently slept through the attack. still no suspect and no arrests.

steve is desperate for information about his daughter's murder. >> kind of just telling me that they can't tell me much which is frustrating. >> reporter: investigators say they have already processed more than 1,000 tips but caution the case is complex and are crowd sourcing information from the community of moscow, idaho. so far the fbi which is assisting the investigation says it received more than 480 digital media submissions and the governor set aside up to $1 million for state emergency funds and questions whether the murders could be linked to previous crimes in the region but police said there does not appear to be evidence of a connection in oregon and washington. still the university of idaho is allowing students that fear for their safety to finish the semester remotely.

some have returned to school for finals. they made plans to take extra precautions to stay safe. anxious a killer is still on the loose. >> it is not finished and still a threat in my opinion. so that's what's caused me to be most apprehensive. i have always been a very independent person and this has shaken that for me. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez with that report. still ahead on "morning joe," an update on the deadly mass shooting at a walmart including when the suspect purchased the gun used in the massacre. a direct challenge to xi jinping's zero covid policy. people in china are fighting back against another round of extreme covid lockdowns. also ahead an update on how things are going in ukraine from the country's former president

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now an update on the deadly mass shooting inside a walmart in virginia. the fbi and chesapeake police finished processing the crime scene over the weekend. authorities say it is up to walmart to demonstrate what is next for the store. six employees were shot and killed by a supervisor at the store. the youngest victim was 16 years old. police say the shooter legally bought the handgun he bought the morning of the shooting and led by satan and planned to target co-workers. he was known for being hostile with employees. two people were rescued this morning from a small plane stuck roughly feet above the ground

after it struck a high voltage tower. they suffered serious injuries and rushed to care. the single engine plane crashed into the tower last night leighing thousands without power. each power line had to ensure it wouldn't harm anyone. >> unbelievable. comedian jay leno returned to the stage first time since suffering serious burns to his face. he performed for a sold out show last night weeks after being burned in a car fire. he was seriously burned november 12 in the los angeles garage when a vintage car he was working on erupted in flames. he spent ten days at a burn

center to be treated for second and third-degree burns to face, chest and hands. still ahead on "morning joe," chinese president xi is facing significant criticism for continuing the zero covid policy. we'll have a report from beijing amid mass protests over new lockdowns. >> really surprising images out of china, all across china. >> we'll be back with much more "morning joe." oll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee, even if you got ppp. and all it takes is eight minutes to find out. then we'll work with you to fill out your forms and submit the application. that easy. innovation refunds has helped businesses like yours claim over $1 billion in payroll tax refunds. but it's only available for a limited time. go to innovationrefunds.com to learn more. ♪♪

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a rare scene in china where major protests erupted over the weekend over pandemic lockdowns. in shanghai the situation escalated where police were seen at times shoving demonstrators, large crowds gathered in

roadways across multiple cities calling for an end to continue wous lockdowns for repeated covid-19 testing. some demand that president xi jinping and communist party leaders step down. critics of the zero covid policy argue the toll of extreme lockdowns are more costly than the benefit of trying to contain the virus. joining us from beijing is nbc news correspondent janis mackey frayer. >> thank you for being with us. "the new york times" article this morning is fascinating talking about how xi and the government so successful at being able to block off channels to lead to -- they united farmers with students with entrepreneur. how serious is this?

>> reporter: it's effectively putting everyone in the same covid boat, a migrant worker from the northeast or financier in shanghai. after nearly three years of pandemic rules everybody is feeling worn out by this and an expectation things would get better and ease and china open up a little bit after the 20th congress once they had the leadership established and that's not happened. if anything the attempts to ease the covid rules have led to them bearing down more. we're in effectively a lockdown here in beijing. restaurants are closed. businesses are closed. people are told to work from home. my kid is off school again for the third school year. people are fed up with this. this is building over months. what it needed was a catalyst.

there was a deadly fire that killed ten people and people saw that as a reason to take to the streets and calling for an end to these restrictions. they want freedom from it, to be able to live normal lives. they see the world doing it. state television is having to cut away to different scenes at the world cup broadcast because they don't want to make people angry that the fans aren't wearing masks anymore so there's widespread discontent and spilling out into the streets. people want change and xi jinping has hard choices to make and need to be made soon. the unrest is showing no signs of slowing down and could spread. >> truly remarkable the pictures amid some calling for xi to step

down. what's been the chinese government response to the protests? have they said or done anything? >> reporter: silence. doesn't exist on chinese internet. media just propping up the zero covid policy to defeating the virus. the leadership did not say anything at the regular ministry of foreign affairs conference. i was at the protest in beijing going until 2:30 in the morning. people were holding up the pieces of paper as a protest against censorship. singing the national anthem and i'm not sure if you recall but in the shanghai lockdown the national anthem became such a

rallying cry for people in the lockdown that they banned some of the lyrics from the country's national anthem calling on people to arise up if they don't want to be slaves. the themes are coming the surface and people really feeling a sense of unity no matter the corner of the country in to do what they can with the voices and with this sense of action to try and get some of these restrictions reduces. when we talk about zero covid here what we are talking about is when there is the quarantines, the mass testing, there's the limits on mobility. but in china when you get covid you don't take a few days off work. when you get covid they track you down and take you to a hospital and they take your family to a quarantine center.

those shipping container camps built at a frantic rate and stay in the system until the system says you can leave. it is the limits on mobility. businesses forced to close down. people losing money and the jobs but a sense of a loss of freedom that comes with this policy and people saying enough is enough and got to change. >> nbc's janis mackey frayer, thank you very much for your reporting. coming up, from china to iran another country where protesters are giving the ruling regime problems. around the world next on "morning joe." find your beat your moment of calm find your potential then own it support your immune system with a potent blend of nutrients and emerge your best every day with emergen-c

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news chief international correspondent keir simmons joins us, as well. >> we have been having this conversation for sometime starting three years ago when on the front of your journal, most exclusive journal -- >> fourn affairs is what you are searching for. >> kind of important but all right. >> never let me write an article for. >> anyway -- >> talk about fans. >> i have to pay the dues first and then subscribe. we joked about you had put authoritarians on the cover. i said that's like "sports illustrated" jinx. took three, four years but we have been talking about the fact that authoritarianism after having this moment three years ago is on the decline. you tweeted last night something

beautiful. a month ago if you would have predicted that joe biden would face fewer and less significant domestic challenges than in china, russia and iran. you say of course we have a great deal to work on here still but you are right. right now the authoritarians are on the run, aren't they? >> they are. the targets of populism around the world but also victims of their own doing why china's the perfect example. this zero covid policy is failing and it is not going to succeed. this rejection of the mrna vaccines is xi jinping's policy and a society increasingly fed up. there's no way out. the wordy lemm ma is overused. he has a deal dilemma. he doubles down on the policy

and then increasingly repress the people. but if he does this, also, not only going to have protests, the economy will tank. but letting go and then has to admit he was wrong and a precedent he is unwilling to say. where else he might be wrong? people might say if we protest another policy we can get some change, too. he created a real problem for himself not just in the health sector. but the time you consolidate the power that he has when you get an unprecedented third term you can't blame circumstances. this is now on him. >> keir simmons, you look. a self inflicted wound after another. zero covid policy is disastrous for china.

the crackdown in hong kong and took what the british built urn as the economic hub of asia. xi's destroyed that. declared war on jack ma and entrepreneurs in his country. what entrepreneur wants to be successful there? we could talk about the uighurs. it's been staggering. yet the more mistakes he makes the more power he accumulates. >> yeah. i think you could borrow. it is the economy, stupid. the 1.4 billion people ridden a wave of economic growth allowing the chinese communist party to hold on to power but i think of a visit before covid reporting on the uighurs and the message from chinese officials there are

we are bringing economic prosperity. that's the answer to the questions about treatment. pulling people out of poverty. the problem for china and xi is if the economy is slowing down potentially driven by the covid policy what do you do then and say to the people then? richard is exactly right that effectively what xi has done is taken the responsibility on himself and anything that goes wrong and as the law of unintended consequences anything that goes wrong reflects on him. but there's more to the challenge that he faces, too, because half of the people over 80 in china have not had further vaccine, not had a booster. if he chooses to open up the

implications for older folks in china is serious and what i think is happening in china is you can see as a social battle between urbanites and generations. it is a challenge for the chinese communist party. >> jonathan, i remember talking to jon huntingman as ambassador to china. sat down and has a one on one with him. i said, mr. ambassador, what is it that the chinese communist party wants? at that time people saying that china is growing. they're going to overtake the united states. what i said what do the communists want there? he said 9% growth. because if they can grow the economy at 9% every year they don't have to worry as much about unrest across the country. he said this ten years ago.

falling to three, four, 5%, everything is up in the air and they know it. >> that's the issue right now is that the covid policy as just documented here tested the citizens. they have been on the wrong horse in the russia/ukraine war. not condemning them and paying the potential economic price and risking real sanctions from the west. richard, you mentioned a site of protest and that is iran. no economic growth there. give us a sense what you are seeing and how worried is that regime over protests across the country and have for weeks now? >> they are worried. 40 years since the revolution

and getting public defiance from the women. the chinese method is to detain iran is much more brute force. problem is how do you use brute force against women and not loss support? the economy is in a shambles. political succession taking place. the answer is they don't have an answer to put it bluntly. it's very hard under pressure to adapt. very hard to compromise because the fear is admit we'll wrong and fan the flames of protests. so they want to double or triple down and that's what we see in china and iran. the question is whether they can get away with it. often they can at an enormous

human cost and enormous economic cost but it is not a policy solution. particularly in iran you don't have it. my guess is some point this regime tries to invent a foreign crisis to discredit the opposition and wrap themselves in the flag. we see with the neighbors or the nuclear program. they may hope that the israelis or the americans or the saudis takes action because every day that goes by they get closer to having the prerequisites of a nuclear bomb and might not mind a foreign policy problem to distract from the streets. >> keir, let me ask a question as a movement guy here in the states. i'm looking at what's going on in china and what's going on in iran and what i'm looking for, is there an organized movement?

is there organized groups in either that could really bring the protest, this upheaval, this content to a place where it becomes more permanent and not just a spontaneous reaction? because without that you can end up fighting the autocracy and replaced by someone that is even worse and we have seen that other places in the world. are there organized groups and movements to guide this? >> to that add russia, too. it is hard to tell in the autocratic and totalitarian societys. there's a great quote from lennin sometimes nothing happens in a decade and it happens in a week. that's the nature of these places and the honest answer is we don't know. we don't know how things will shift and i think it's a really

good question because in the same way that the world has seemed to shift on an axis a number of times in recent years that can happen again. just what richard was talking about. will we see a crisis for iran, what will that mean for our relations with china and russia. i think another issue here is the signs of tension and divisions within the alliances on our side, if you like. in europe there is deep disquiet about the inflation reduction act here. it's seen as a populist move. it's seen as something like protectionism and the europeans that i was talking about some lawmakers in europe over the weekend scratching their head saying what do we do about this? we can't shift. we can't shift this because of the politics within washington and yet this is going to damage our economy at a time when we thought we had a solid alliance with the u.s. so this is -- this is a merison,

the women right now. that's what president putin is banking on. she will expect this to be a long play, if you like and we are running that marathon, too, and in many ways the question is who gets to the finish line? >> still ahead, an update from the war in ukraine from that country's former president. petro poroshenko is our guest when "morning joe" comes right back. r guest when "morning joe" comes right back

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of the hour, severe weather is complicating post-thanksgiving travel for thousands across the country. nbc news correspondent sam brock has the details. >> the post-holiday travel exodus getting off to a very soggy start with rain and thunderstorms impacting millions of americans just trying to get home after thanksgiving. >> we made sure that we left about three hours ahead of time. a sunday soaker in the eastern half of the country. at long airport lines on one of the busiest travel days of the year. there were less than 200 flights canceled, but more than 6,000 delayed. >> if we get out of here on time we'll be lucky. >> packed everything yesterday and woke these kids up right before go time and jumped in the car, grabbed some coffee and go. >> this is nothing compared to the misery the americans experienced since the summer. >> i think you've seen airlines actually pass with flying colorses when it comes to the

thanksgiving travel period. >> of the more than 55 million people traveling this holiday, the vast majority did sell from behind the wheel that and all that wet weather in the mid atlantic and many popular highways turned into parking lots. >> we were expecting six and a half hours and now gps says about nine. so a few accidents along the way. >> drivers did receive some unexpected holiday cheer at the pump while higher than a year ago, gas prices dropping significantly from a month ago. >> we were okay. it was fun for the kids also and it's a good family time. >> nbc's sam brock with that report, and we're going to roll right now into the fourth hour of "morning joe." >> awesome. >> just before 6:00 a.m. on the west coast and just before 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. in a moment we will go live to georgia where voters waited in long lines over the weekend after the state supreme court

allowed early voting on the saturday after thanksgiving. we'll tell you where things stand ahead of next week's runoff election and play the new ad from senator raphael warnock that features the speeches of his opponent herschel walker. he just lets him talk, you know? >> the most powerful thing you do is use your opponent's words against him. >> but first, donald trump is in damage control mode after meeting with a white supremacist and an anti-semite at mar-a-lago. >> and a holocaust denier. >> "the wall street journal" editorial board means they will fail if they keep moving along with the former president. trump welcomed nicholas fuentes, anti-semite and holocaust denier at mar-a-lago, and he ate dinner with him! >> along with kanye west.

>> another anti-semite. >> a source tells nbc news that trump was very impressed with fuentes who he claims he did not know beforehand. >> he's a type of defense for trump when trying to escape accountability. >> he's done this. >> remember in 2016 during his campaign for president trump said he didn't know david duke and the kkk when he was asked to denounce the hate group. >> i don't know what group you're talking about. you wouldn't want me to condemn a group that i know nothing about. i would take a look. if you send me a list of the groups i would disavow them. >> the you can ku klux klan. >> i don't know david duke. >> really?