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♪♪ hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york. what do we do with a political party in which the guardrails have completely come off in terms of the views it is willing to harbor and further and tolerate? it is the central question in american political life at this hour given that the man who is arguably the front runner to be the republican presidential nominee in 2024 has decided to spend his time with known white supremacists and anti-semites. the new york post reports former president trump on tuesday night had dinner with nick fuentes, outspoken anti-semite and white supremacist at trump's private club in florida. advisers to trump conceded on friday. also at the dinner was the performer kanye west who has also been denounced for making

anti-semitism statements. west traveled to meet with trump at mar-a-lago and brought fuentes along the adviser said. in statements posted on his platform truth social trump claims that he, quote, knew nothing, nothing about fuentes. this is who he is, though, according to the "new york times," quote n recent years fuentes 2024 has developed a high profile on the far right, forged ties with marjorie taylor greene of georgia and paul gosar of arizona. largely through his leadership of an annual white supremacist event called the america first conference. he is a holocaust denier, he openly uses hateful language on his podcast, calling for the military to be sent into black neighborhoods and demanding that jews leave the country. those are views that clearly have no place in american civic life, in our politics or in our society, but the guy who well komtd fuentes and kanye is after

all donald trump. the same person who back in '16 could not bring himself to condemn ex kkk leader david duke. >> i don't know what group you are talking about. you wouldn't want me to condemn a group that i know nothing about. >> the ku klux klan. >> you could have groups in there that could be totally fair. >> i i'm just talking about david tubing and the ku klux klan. >> honestly i don't know david duke. >> i don't know anything about them. i'm in a group of white nationalists including nick fuentes marched through the streets of charlottesville, virginia, members of the group chanting, quote, jews will not replace us, this is what trump said. >> you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. >> yeah. and then when he was asked to disavow a white supremacist group at the one and only

presidential debate that took place before the 2020 election he lost he said this -- >> who would you like me to condemn? >> white supremacist. >> proud boys, stand by and stand by. >> which they took as a call to arms and literally wear that slogan on their t-shirts. all culminated and led up to the january 6 insurrection when a mob filled to the brim with white supremacists includes mick fuentes went to washington and proceeded to storm the u.s. capitol chanting "hang mike pence." at every single step of the way, right, all those flash points republican leaders woke up in the morning and had a choice, right? kiss their kids good-bye, looked in the mirror and to say this is not what i stand for, they could say no more with this guy trump,

send him out to pasture, a man who over the course of a few years cost them mightily, politically, cost the republicans the house, the senate, the white house, cost them the senate a second time in these midterms. he has left an indelible stain on the republican party in the view of voters. curtain number two, they could just stay silent. and that's what they keep doing. including over this dinner, most of them. axios reports this on the reaction from the republican party or lack thereof. to donald trump's dinner with fuentes and kanye west, quote, republican lawmakers have largely remained silent in the wake of former president trump's dinner reviving a tactic they frequently relied on touring thinks presidency. task force forces focused on judaism or anti-semitism or sponsors of legislation that would combat anti-semitic hate

crimes none responded to request for comment. the gop's galling and dangerous silence in the wake of its de facto leader dining with anti-semites is where we have to start today. jake sherman is here for us, also senator claire mccaskill plus former republican congressman david jolly and with me at the table beb rhodes national security adviser to president obama, all msnbc contributors. jake, before you get to, oh, but the race to be speaker what's wrong with kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell, why isn't this a bridge too far? i know cassidy and collins criticized the dinner, but where are the leaders? >> so they're back today both of them are back in the capitol today where they will no longer be able to dodge, you know, dodge comment through spokesmen or through whatever means they want. i mean, the senate is back in session as of about a couple minutes ago. will be voting tonight. i have to imagine mitch

mcconnell is going to want to address this. having not spoke ton either of them about this issue or about any issue because they are just coming back into session, i imagine mcconnell will come out pretty forcefully against this because that's been in his nature to do. mccarthy i don't know. i honestly have no idea, he's obviously in a very tricky battle for speaker. let me just be perfectly clear here, and i will get off my soap box in about three seconds. this is not actually a partisan issue. this is actually a neo-nazi and donald trump is an adult and personally i'm sick -- i'm sick of people saying, well, he didn't know. i mean, like if you don't know that's a big enough problem. we are not going to dinners with neo-nazis. so i think there has to be like a baseline of like something here where we have to take responsibility for our actions. i don't end up at dinners with

neo-nazis, you don't, nicolle. i just think, you know, i've made my point and i will try not to get too exercised. >> i like you on your soap box. i like t let me ask you a follow-up question and i'm going to ask you to stay on the soap box for this. >> oh, no. >> you know, jonathan greenblatt of adl sat right here and it was after trump tweeted anti-systematic rants and i said did you call mcconnell or mccarthy and he wouldn't reveal the substance of their conversations z as he pleaded with them as the two leaders of the republican party when they refused to condemn trump's anti-semitic. he said, listen, they didn't condemn it but mcconnell wouldn't condemn racist attacks against his wife what do you expect? are you sure mcconnell is going

to condemn this? >> no, i'm not sure. i'm not sure about anything. mcconnell's general -- and i will offer the bare case here, mcconnell's general position on trump is to pretend he doesn't exist and say nothing about him no matter what he does or says for the most part with a few exceptions. so i'm not at all confident, but i would say, nicolle, this isn't somebody, nick fuentes, who is dancing around anti-semitism, this is somebody who is hope openly and outwardly anti-semitic. i can't understand how -- there is no gray area here with this person so i don't -- and frankly by the way, nicolle, there is no gray area with kanye west at the moment, either. >> right. and he did know he was having dinner with kanye west and kanye west has been openly anti-semitic over the last couple weeks. my last point here, ben shapiro who is probably not often quoted

on this network or many networks as saying something that a lot of people will agree with, he said the best way to not have a dinner with an anti-semite you don't know is to not have a dinner with an anti-semite you do know. i thought that was a useful point. >> it was a good tweet but it goes in the category, claire mccaskill of how bad is it? it's so bad that that that guy attacked you. >> yeah. i mean, there is a deafening chorus of silence in the face of evil in the republican party and it is speaking very, very loudly right now. you know, i'd like to bring up an organization that i think ought to get involved right now. most americans don't know what apac is. apac is a very powerful jewish organization that gives millions of dollars to incumbent u.s. senators and incumbent members

of congress who have cast favorable votes helping israel. they have been bipartisan in the past, favoring incumbents. they give huge money, nicolle. i think it's time for apac and maybe be bibi netanyahu as a sed act to stand up and say we will no longer tolerate this. and if apac is continuing to give money to members of congress who are refusing to stand up to this kind of evil, a man who referred to holocaust survivors as burnt cookies, trump's own grandchildren, jewish grandchildren, caught in this hateful spittle from this man, it's now time for organizations to take steps against the republicans who are too afraid to speak out against evil. >> i don't disagree with you, but it's sort of like expecting merrick garland to clean up the

criminality and corruption of the twice impeached ex-president donald trump because republican senators didn't have the cajones to impeach him either time. apac should pull money from everyone who refuses to disavow an out of the closet anti-semitic and is white supremacist but they shouldn't have to. how many -- i mean, part of me wants them to keep it up, keep it up, stay stay silent when nick fuentes flops his anti-semitic rear end in donald trumps chair and eats cheeseburgers. keep it up. why did independent voters not vote for you? why is the red wave that some people thought would happen never come to shore? because of you. because rob portman and mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy and richard burr and all these people we didn't think were like donald trump on the inside kept their mouth shut when his rotten

core showed on the outside. what is just the cold calculation on a political front to their silence? >> well, i think up until now it's just pure cowardice. you know, that they want power. >> afraid of what? he is the biggest electoral loser the republican party has known since, i don't know who. >> but i think david jolly will agree with me on that, there is a huge swath of the republican base that remains incredibly loyal to this jerk. you know, and i'm like you, nicolle, i have said this before on the air, i have the angel and the devil on my shoulder here and the angel wants them to clean up this act and do the right thing for the country, the devil says keep it up because we will win more elections. but i'm not sure i'm completely comfortable with winning election on the backs of a man who is so devoid of anything other than his own

self-importance that he could get back in a position of power. i mean, it's going to take organizations and republicans stopping this man. he could win the republican primary for president based on the loyal group of extremists within the republican party. let's not kid ourselves about that. >> yeah, i mean, david, look, to me this actually isn't a trump story or a kanye story or fuentes story, this is the rot inside the republican party story and it's the same story that we covered when after, you know, grab them in the you know what, rudy giuliani, chris christie, all these establishment republicans refused to withdraw their support for his candidacy. we would learn later that reince pre bus wanted to flip the ticket and put pence on. no he be walked away. it's the same rot that kept them on board on those comments i

made, i would come to this table and say where is the republican party? honestly in 2015 it broke my flipping heart to see people that i had known and in some ways aided politically say and do nothing after grab them in the bleep, after good people on both sides, after david duke who i'm not familiar with the kkk, but now we are ten train stops past that. this is who they are and what does that campaign look like in '24, david jolly? >> nicolle, thank you so much for that. this is a republican story. this is the story of today's republican party, not a donald trump a former president simply having dinner with anti-semitic and other actors of hate. this moment was created by today's republican party. this is what the republican party has given the country over the last six years by elevating and celebrating the man donald trump. donald trump if he had never

been elevated by today's republican party would be some shady business guy who had dinner with anti-semites and we wouldn't be talking about it. this is a moment of today's republicanism and i don't even like the word trumpism anymore because it assigns donald trump's personal beliefs to the party. this is the party. this is it. this is mitch mcconnell, this is kevin mccarthy, this is marco rubio, this is richard burr, ted cruz, ron desantis, mike pompeo, nikki haley, kristi noem. this is their moment. they created this. when we talk about who will be the next person that takes the party past donald trump, that's not even an accurate question because whoever is the next person will be the person that gave us this moment as well. so their silence obviously affirms that narrative. i don't think we will hear kevin mccarthy say much at all, it's easy to condemn anti-semitism, maybe that's the quote he will give jake but he's not going to condemn donald trump bus he is this this corrupt bargain of trying to get the 218 votes to be speaker of the house because

he, too, is a leading republican. this is their moment right now and so in 2024 this is the republican brand. it is a brand that embraces and gives harbor to anti-semitism, to white nationalism, to white supremacist and to hate. this is today's gop. >> and it's really hard to get to this point, right? and i think that -- i think that the january 6 committee's focus on donald trump was necessary but i think the more important piece of what they revealed is, you know, this he got him. they tied trump to knowing he lost, they made it abundantly clear, they layered ten layers of evidence. they got trump on knowing the eastman plan was illegal, they layered ten layers of witness testimony and they got him on the violence, right, about six pieces of direct witness testimony that he knew about the violence and wanted to be there for it. but the story is that it didn't bring any republicans around to think there's anything wrong

with him. >> nicolle, maybe it's because we're coming out of the holiday, maybe it's because of the shock of just how brazen this is but if you step back as you i think appropriately have done so far, you know, this is a man donald trump who got his surge in republican politics by saying my former boss, the first black president was born in africa. he launched his campaign by calling mexicans rapists. calling for a muslim ban, he called jews good negotiators in front of a jewish audience, i think it was at apac actually. if it looks like a white supremacist, talks like a white supremacist and hangs out with white supremacists, donald trump with a white supremacist. that's the base of the republican party today and the problem is some of these people are just not showing political courage, for some of these people it's who they are. marjorie taylor greene, some of these people that we saw standing in elections in the last midterms that were thankfully rejected by the american people, the harder truth of january 6 is who were

the foot soldiers on january 6? it was the proud boys, it was keep like nick fuentes, it was white supremacists. we don't just a donald trump problem in this country, we have a white supremacy problem in this country and it has infected the republican party like a virus, it's been turbo charged by social media, we see donald trump not just having these kinds of dinners, we see him tweeting out qanon which is a deeply strange and divisive and destructive conspiracy theory. the detox fiction that has to happen, the moment of reckoning that's happening now in our politics is profoundly important for the future of not just the next election but what kind of country we want to choose to be and republicans do i think have to ultimately be a part of reject that go and detoxifying what has been allowed to spread within their own ranks. >> jake, what does that sound like? what is the question, then? i guess it's not do you disavow donald trump or his dinner with nick fuentes and whatever kanye wants to be called now, but it's

do you agree with the tenets of white supremacy? do you agree with the replacement theory and if you don't what are you going to do about it? >> i think if you are asking me what i would do -- what i will do, i guess, is, i mean -- the first question is -- i mean, what do you think of this? the basic answer here, nicolle is there isn't actually be a sliver of daylight. this is not an issue where this is somebody who has views marginally outside the mainstream of what our country stands for. this is someone who hates jews, has said so in the past and has made comments like senator mccaskill said about the holocaust and has denied the holocaust. i mean, this is not somebody who should be anywhere near american public policy or politics. i mean, so if there's any sliver of, well, the president didn't

know, like that's not going to stand, right? this is a grown person. this isn't my 5-year-old who didn't know he should spill his orange juice on the ground. this is a grown man who has been president. so like i actually don't have very much tolerance for the he didn't know and he disavowed. it's his responsibility to know. like if you go out and meet with a terrorist, is it okay because you didn't know he was a terrorist? so like i don't have much patience for that. on the question of whether they hold these views, i would say i actually don't know what to say on that. i mean, i think that that is a question that needs to be asked. i don't think anyone would cop to the fact that they are a -- and if they are a white supremacist in congress. i'm not sure if anybody would -- is in touch with themselves and knows that they are or they aren't, but i'm almost at a loss for what the next step is in this public discourse because it's so disheartening and crazy

that it's difficult to grapple with. >> and i guess all i would say, jake, is that marjorie taylor greene and paul gosar seem to agree with them. >> i'm not putting them in that bucket. they've spoken -- >> kevin mccarthy seems hellbent on elevating them and making them the face of this caucus. so i think it's a legitimate -- i don't know what's in kevin mccarthy's heart other than, you know, selecting out the starburst flavors that trump likes and elevating the known white supremacists in his quack can you say. we're just getting started. when we come back much more on this gop complicity in these most toxic and dangerous ideologies of anti-semitism and white supremacy. we will talk about how the party's leader in the house as we've been discussing is right now as we are having this conversation running around, scurrying around really to do anything to become the speaker. plus the january 6th committee's final report is in the works. members are defending the scope

of their work, disagreeing a little bit about it. news today, they are still interviewing former aides to the ex-president. later in the show americans voted in huge numbers this thanksgiving weekend in the state of georgia. a look at the still very important senate runoff race there. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. k break. don't go anywhere today. ♪♪ hmmm. tryna catch me ridin' ...thirty. ♪ they see me rollin' they hatin' ♪ ♪ patrollin' and tryna catch me ridin' thirty ♪ the 30-day money back guarantee. that's car buying reimagined. only from carmax. ♪ ridin' thirty ♪ ever leave your clothes in the dryer and find a wrinkled mess? thanksgiving weekend in the fabric softene thanksgiving weekend in the wrinkle guard penetrates deep into fibers, leaving clothes so soft, wrinkles don't want to stick around. make mornings smoother with downy wrinkle guard fabric softener.

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create your own ultimate feast is here. choose 4 of 10, like new cheddar bay shrimp. welcome to fun dining. we're back with everybody, the commercial break did nothing to calm everybody down over this. i want to show all of you what congressman adam schiff had to say about this conversation you

and i were having ahead of the break. >> mccarthy's problem is not with what i've said about russia, mccarthy's problem is he can't get to 218 without marjorie taylor greene and paul fwoe sar and matt gaetz so he will do whatever they ask. right now they're asking for me to be removed from my committees and he's willing to do it, willing to do anything they ask and that's the problem. kevin mccarthy has no ideology, he has no core set of beliefs, it's hard to get to 218 that way, it's even more difficult to keep 218. that's his problem. he will misrepresent my record, misrepresent derek swalwell or ilhan omar, whatever he needs to do to get the votes of the qanon caucus within his conference. >> so i played that because i think it answers the question that jake and i were wrestling with, what kevin mccarthy -- just about the dinner will he disavow the ideology. my guess he will not do either.

>> he macon dem anti-semitism in rote language. >> are you sure? i'm asking the same question i asked jake. are you sure? >> i think that's an easy place to go. >> only two republicans have gone there today susan collins and -- >> here is what kevin mccarthy has sometimes done in the past, by the time he's done he's attacking ilhan omar, a black woman and a muslim, right? so he tries to thread this needle but in doing that, you know, he raises questions over why are you attacking this person over here? it's what congressman schiff was saying, he picks an enemy on the democratic side and just tries to hold together his 218 by attacking them without even asking questions because he's kevin mccarthy and there is not a lot of depth there, not a lot of questions being asked about why are you demonizing this woman of color in order to hold your caucus together. i'm getting ahead of myself, but we've seen him to this in the past with ilhan omar. it begs the question, on one end

we have marjorie taylor greene and paul so he far who are qanon types. on the other hand you may have kevin mccarthy who believe nothing but the pursuit of power so they will make any accommodation. in the middle there are all kinds of people here. the choices that you make as leaders those choices have a big difference -- >> but i would argue if you let those two get away with beings out of the closet white supremacists it doesn't matter. >> at what point can you say i'm a country club republican and not like these crazy people but we're going to let please crazy people do whatever they want. it has real impacts. white supremacists across the country are being empowered by what happened at mar-a-lago, they're being empowered by what marjorie taylor greene is going to do in congress. that means they're being empowered by kevin mccarthy because every time he elevates marijuana ri taylor green he is elevating a certain viewpoint, putting it forward to the nation and in the u.s. capitol.

kevin mccarthy is equally culpable here whatever is in his heart. he is the one facilitating this if he allows people like paul gosar and marjorie taylor greene to set the agenda of his caucus. >> david jolly, i have gone back and i didn't mean to put jake sherman on the spot, i've gone back and sort of looked at how i grappled with covering the beginning of the trump presidency and i made a mistake of thinking what was in anyone's heart was the point. it's not the point. it's what you do and say and at the end of the day none of them ever did or said anything after any of those moments that i showed you. so i guess my question to you, david jolly, is how do we move the conversation to the moment we're actually in not the one we want to be in? >> that's a great question. look, it is a hard moment to try to judge what is in somebody else's heart but we can judge them by their actions, their tolerance, their refusal to distance themselves, their refusal to try to eject the bad

actors like donald trump, paul gosar and others. i think there is a nuance here that we should approach and should be an issue in 2024 which is what we have not talked about is the implicit bias in much of the republican agenda, including among country club republicans. we noesh nael refer to culture war issues as though they are benign. they are not benign. culture war issues are put in front of the country by republicans largely in defense of white straight christian america. and an attempt to return to that and it is an implicit rejection of diversity, multiculturalism and appreciation for people from all walks of life be they migrants of a different race, be they the lgbt community that happens to be your neighbor. it is a rejection of any of that diversity and it is a raw defense, a raw defense of white christian straight america. so does that mean that somebody is raist in their heart?

everybody can make their own judgment but what we know is today's republican platform is seeking to disavow the inclusion of what america really looks like and instead return to what it was hundreds of years ago. >> and i guess, claire, my point in this line of questioning is wouldn't it be great for the country if they all came out and said what they were for? i think that i have spent six years looking for republicans to disavow what is, you know, objectively heinous, right, objectively heinous the things trump did as president, and i died holding my breath waiting for people to disavow him. i mean torques david jolly's point, maybe it would be more revealing and more honest to get them on the record in terms of what they're for. in your view would that be a bunch of republicans coming out for the things david jolly is talking about? what would that sound like? >> well, it's scary to me, i have no idea. >> and you know them. >> and i know them. but, you know, i've got a good

idea, we need five republicans that have been elected to the house, five, just five, five republicans need to get in a room and save their party and even though it may not help my party, i'm okay with that, and find a republican that they could support for speaker. maybe it's david jolly, maybe it's barbara comstock, maybe it's a former u.s. senator that is a republican. there are a lot of republicans out there that could do a great job as speaker. they don't have to be a member of congress. five republicans could join with the democrats and elect a republican speaker that would reject the hate, the toxic mix of guns and hate that is now the essence of the republican party. i could probably -- i mean, david and i could probably sit in a room and probably think of the five people that would be most likely to do it, but that could happen.

now, that's a christmas miracle i'm asking for, but it's the season of miracles, right? >> it is. listen, i mean, back to sort of the politics of this, jake, which i think your reporting and others bears out that there are no breaks on the moral compass, that there is a little bit of political angst and my question for you is does that not work anymore, either? i mean, he cost them the senate twice, right, and the house and the presidency and they're still in a defensive crouch for the guy -- i mean, and the reason these three losers had dinner together is because they are all underemployed/unemployed. they're covering up for them? what? >> yeah, i've been surprised -- not surprised, i've been taken aback maybe is the best term that they still have the grip on the republican party that they -- that they have. i've been -- like you i've been

waiting for that to break because he's clearly not -- even if you are able to remove all of the substantive issues with this, which i clearly am not, he's not been a -- donald trump -- since 2016 has not been a political positive. you just look at the pure politics. >> a winner. he hasn't won. he hasn't won anything. >> lost the white house, lost the senate, you know, lost the house. so, yeah, that's been surprising to me. i will say, though, i don't know if kevin mccarthy is going to be speaker, but to senator mccaskill's point here, there is a way that five republicans with a stiff spine can control the outcome. now, moderates based on my, you know, decade plus of experience reporting on republicans on capitol hill they generally aren't the people to do that. they just -- it just -- it has

not been the case. right now you're seeing five people on the hard right do it. it's a staring contest at this point to see if mccarthy is going to be speaker. i don't know how that's going to turn out. they are pretty confident they are going to be speaker but the general baseline point with what schiff said and what you're saying now is he is going to be a prisoner of sorts to that hard right. now, he has taken away -- the house has taken away the ability for the chamber to boot a speaker, to get rid of a speaker in the middle of a term except under very extreme circumstances. so that helps ease the pressure a little bit, but five people have the keys right now, you know, so i think that's -- that's the dynamic. >> jake sherman, we love you on your soap box, thank you so much. david jolly, we love you ji m., especially in front of those christmas trees that you've got. thank you. ben and claire are sticking around for the hour with us. when we come back january 6

select committee members promising to release all of their evidence to the public when they wrap up their work next month including work that's in place today, meeting with kellyanne conway. the latest reporting is next. llkeyanne conway the latest reporting is next shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today.

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first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. even walking was tough. i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. cosentyx can help you move, look, and feel better... by treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting...get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections some serious... and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms... or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms... develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. i would like to see our report be as broad and inclusive as possible. we are discussing as a committee among the members what belongs

in the body of the report, what belongs in the appendices of the report. i think her role on the committee has been indispensable, i have tremendous respect for her and adam kinzinger, they've shown a lot of courage and backbone, something in short supply in the gop these days. the committee would not have been the same without both of their participation. congressman adam schiff, one of many members of the january 6th select committee to defend the committee's work and specifically republican vice chair liz cheney's contributions after reporting revealed more than a dozen former and current committee staff members are angry about her push to make the ex-president the primary focus of their final report when that comes out next month. "washington post" reports several committee staff members were floored earlier this month when they were told that a draft report would focus almost entirely on trump and the work of the committee's gold team. excluding reams of other investigative work. cheney's team telling the

"washington post" why in her view it's so important to keep the focus on him, quote, donald trump is the first president in american history to attempt to overturn an election and prevent the peaceful transfer of power so damn right liz is prioritizing what he did and how he did it and ensuring it never happens again. for those watching closely quint he evenings liz cheney. joining us now one of the reporters on that piece "washington post" congressional investigations reporter jackie alamini. harriet lebman joins the conversation as well. jackie, this was amazing reports. liz cheney basically says, yeah, you know, yeah, right that's -- her staffer, yes, what she reported is true. take us through what you're reporting. >> yeah, nicolle, basically the operating thesis of our reporting is the schism that has

emerged in the committee after a year and a half of quite intense work being done by lawmakers and the investigative staff who all serve at the behest of these lawmakers and who actually are the people doing the fact-finding, the depositions, scouring all over the place for any evidence possible regarding the former president's efforts to overturn the election, but there has been sort of a faction of staff who feel like liz cheney has taken this report in too narrow of a direction and there are people who -- i'm sorry, of course the dog always chooses now to speak. >> we love the dog. >> liz cheney has two narrowly focused on trump and there was a feeling that during the hearings it made sense to focus on trump. they wanted to draw on as many viewers as possible. they wanted to tell a cohesive narrative story, sort of show the arc of the efforts to

overturn the results of the election, which is also just in general a pretty confusing story for people to understand. but for the final report it would be a little bit more well-rounded and include some of the evidence from other teams that were doing investigative work around donald trump like the military and intelligence failures with following the money trail, the green teams and the blue teams as they've called it that it would eventually be included in the final report, but once it became very clear that it wasn't going to that some of the draft chapters that were put together extends -- we've been told that their extensive chapters would be left on the cutting room floor, staffers were really dismayed and worried and felt like it's going to ultimately be a disservice to the american public to shelf these chapters. adam kinzinger -- sorry, adam schiff went on "the sunday show"

yesterday to say that all these transcripts and a lot of the original source materials ultimately is going to be released to the general public, but what these lawmakers are skimming over are these chapters that have been drafted by the teams that might not make it into the final report or may ultimately just make it into the appendix. either way they are being deprioritized and relegated and there were sources who spoke with us, 15 actually current and former committee staff who felt like this was all sort of a part of more of a liz cheney political operation as opposed to the fact-finding mission that they all initially signed up for and left their -- their -- in some cases high-paying private law jobs or powerful jobs in other parts of the country all to come to d.c. to do this

important work. >> jackie, it's a truly extraordinary story and whenever you have staffers like this who are the people doing a lot of the work clearly talking to the "washington post," people like you, it's because they're frustrated that they are not getting something lieu their own leadership on this committee. the question i had for you is there are two ways of looking at this, one is it's a real estate question, how much time are we spending on the report on different things and liz cheney wants to focus on certain things because she's obviously focused on trump. another is this is an ideological choice by the committee because spending more time on things like the financing of january 6 or some of the foot soldiers of january 6 or maybe some of the other republican members of congress casts a bigger net that's bigger than trump and, you know, might draw on other uncomfortable aspects of the republican party that liz cheney is not focused on n your reporting how much do you see this as a question of real estate versus a question of ideological focus by the committee? >> yeah, ben, that's a really great question and it's something i veered away from in

my first answer, but i think it is the latter. there are two different schools of thought here that i think actually as a broader issue and faction when people look at trump, there are some people who view trump as the problem, trump as the rot in the republican party, that he can be sort of carved out and that the republican party can be made whole again if he simply disappears, and then there are the people many of these staffers, for example, who feel that trump as one person told me he lit the fuse but that he's irrelevant now. it doesn't matter if he runs for president, but at the end of the day these organized militia types, lone wolf attackers and domestic terrorist threats are still going to be a problem in five to ten years, long past trump, and that cheney at the end of the day has a different

audience that she's talking to. she is trying to talk to the republican party without offending the party writ large and she has been trying to, you know, straddle this fine line for some time now and i think staffers have obviously sort of had their fill. >> you know, harry, i think -- and i want to understand exactly what she wants to leave on the cutting room floor. i think two things, one, the trump portfolio is being picked up by the newly appointed special counsel so that evidence when they turn everything over will be with the hands of investigators. that is the legacy of the trump part, but to the conversation we've been having for 45 minutes, the domestic violent extremism threat in the united states of america is enabled and furthered and made worse by the green lighting of domestic violent extremist language and

rhetoric and white supremacy and white supremacist and anti-semitism on the right. it seems in terms of a product -- and this is why i'd want to understand very clearly what liz doesn't want included -- the product that can help secure the homeland right now is all the evidence gathered about the domestic violent extremism threat in america and its ties to the current republican party. >> all true and not to be ignored, but first to your question what does she want to leave? there are these four teams, the gold team which is trump and then there's also a team having to do with funding, a team having to do with the continued threat of terrorism and one of -- national terrorism, one other which will come to me in a moment. look, i think of this as a quintessential d.c. story. there are people who did leave their jobs, had worked late, had a lot of takeout pizza and wrote things they thought would be part of a historical document and lo and behold actually the

members of congress, especially cheney, are deciding. it strikes me as less a republican and democratic issue than maybe it does others, and this is our only shot as a nation at some kind of official historical document about the most i'd say still alarming and striking thing that happened which is the attempt by a president of the united states to actually keep the peaceful transition in democracy from happening. and that i think, you know, is what's behind the push and the pull. it's really true, you have very frustrated, understandably frustrated staffers, and this other stuff, oh, of course the other thing is the intelligence failures. three very important points that shouldn't be is should they be front and center in the report, in the appendices of the report, or otherwise handled? it complicates things that the republicans are taking over in the house. but the notion that this would be a trump-driven report i find

both understandable and kind of the call of the members, not the staff. >> all right. we're just getting started on this front. everyone sticks around. up next, we will talk about the special counsel with doj's criminal investigations zooming ahead of the thanksgiving holidays. we'll tell you about what you missed. don't go anywhere. where. if your business kept on employees through the pandemic, innovation refunds could qualify it for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee. all it takes is eight minutes to find out. then work with highly qualified professionals to fill out your forms and submit the application. go to innovationrefunds.com to learn more.

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special counsel's first work products, if you will. this was from a filing on thanksgiving day. he wrote this, or under his signature it said this. "that is incorrect. as plaintiff recognizes, the court did not enjoin the government. instead the government itself volunteered that approach. moreover, the records there were seized from an attorney's office. the review was conducted on a rolling basis. and the case did not involve the separate civil proceeding invoking a district court's" -- anyway, none of this is -- i didn't set up what this was specifically about. but the point is the tone that we're able to get from jack smith. he signs it yours truly. clearly not messing around. and absolutely zero patience or tolerance for donald trump's clearly designed delay tactics. >> the tone and the fact of it. they made a misrepresentation of what a case stood for. it's the kind of thing, you're new to the case, maybe people would say, you know, don't jump in here, jack. show that you're prudent.

don't want to look too combative, jack smith. uh-uh. he came right back with that paragraph that sounded around the world, not just in that court, holding their feet to the fire. and he's got a reputation for being aggressive. this was an aggressive move. they were wrong but he could have thought the court will figure it out, don't come in guns ablazing. he did, however. and i think it's a real indication of the kind of special counsel he's going to be. >> claire, you have been unafraid to call balls and strikes with merrick garland and doj. what are your thoughts on special counsel jack smith? >> i got on the phone after he was appointed and called around to some people who have worked at doj. and i think harry would agree with me that he has an incredibly strong reputation. and this is a guy who is a slave to the law, period. just the law. not any of the political machinations that we like to talk about on this show.

and he's a real prosecutor. he actually -- i don't mean to besmirch my friends in the feds, but many of them don't have a lot of experience up close and personal with juries. they do a lot on paper but they don't do as much courtroom work. but jack smith is the real deal. and i think he's going to do a great job. but i've got to circle back just a minute to the last segment because i just was dying, nicolle. and i know you'll forgive me because we're that good of friends. jackie's reporting was amazing. but this was the biggest washington whiner story i have ever read. her reporting was great. but this was all about staff members who think they're really important and they're not going to get chapter 2 or chapter 3 and give me a break. they want to say it's because liz cheney is trying to further her political career? she ruined her political career. she gave up her political career to do this. so with all due respect to all

the people who worked hard on this, the story is donald trump. that's what the story is. he did it. he himself did it. now, there's other stuff they can put out -- >> hear hear. >> -- in the report but if they don't make this all about donald trump they are losing a very important battlefront in terms of the messaging war. and liz cheney is exactly right and the staffers just need to quit whining. >> and these times make amazing bedfellows, right? you've got claire coming to liz cheney's defense. i love it. jackie al many, thank you for the reporting. harry litman, claire mccaskill, ben rhodes. thank you all for spending time with us today. pitching gears for us, the 2022 political season as you all know is not over yet. a new ad you have to see featuring herschel walker in his own words. you don't want to miss this. don't go anywhere. s. don't go anywhere.

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i vote because i have the right to and democracy is on the line for me. >> people are passionate in georgia. georgia's an important state in the whole united states. and i think that people will really vote, turn out and vote. >> i could watch a whole hour of that. people voting. hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. this weekend after the turkey, mashed potatoes and apple pie we're eating, many georgians took part in another american tradition. voting. one week from tomorrow senator raphael warnock faces off against trump-backed herschel walker in a runoff for warnock's senate seat. it's a race that won't determine which party controls the u.s. senate. the democrats will. but it could cushion the democratic party's razor-thin majority in the senate. if senator raphael warnock wins re-election. due to early voting many ballots have already been cast which was triggered because neither candidate won 50% of the vote in the general election. according to the georgia secretary of state's office as of 3:30 p.m. right before we

came on the air over 207,000 georgians had cast votes today, which could be the biggest early volting day in the state's election history. early voters turned out in huge numbers over the weekend as well. the "atlanta journal-constitution" reports this -- "it was also the biggest single sunday of early voting in all recent statewide elections. the electorate was disproportionately black. the core constituency of georgia's democratic coalition. voters in democratic strongholds showed up in large numbers. more than 30,000 ballots were cast in dekalb and gwinnett counties while more than 40,000 voters cast ballots in fulton county. wait times at some polling sites stretched more than two hours." and when it came to the early voting on saturday that was only possible after senator warnock filed a lawsuit saying that the state rule that prohibited voting two days after a holiday did not apply during runoff elections. the georgia supreme court sided with him, with senator warnock. and as we saw from the long lines outside polling places,

voters took full advantage of that day to vote. this is senator warnock's second time running and his second runoff for this seat in two years. in the home stretch of this race he's making the case that his opponent is unfit to serve. take a look at senator warnock's latest ad. he has real georgians responding to real speeches given by the real herschel walker. >> because the other night, the other night i was watching this movie. i was watching this movie called "fright night." freak night or some type of night. but it was about vampires. i don't know if you know this, they're cool people. >> what the hell is he talking about? >> is he serious? is he for real? >> but all he cared about is kept his nose against the fence looking at three other cows that didn't belong to him. now all he had to do is eat grass -- >> this video is ridiculous. that's 35 seconds of my life i'll never get back. >> why would i want someone like that leading the state of georgia? >> china has bad air.

>> unbelievable. >> so when china gets our good air their bad air got to move. >> it's all the same air. >> not only does it make no sense, i don't even understand what he thinks he's saying. >> i think it's a risk to me and millions of georgians to put this man in a position of power. >> let's call it what it is. [ bleep ] is embarrassing as hell. >> well, you know. >> i like the guy that said 35 seconds i'll never get back in my life. a closer look at the ever-important upcoming georgia senate runoff is where we begin this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. "atlanta journal-constitution" political reporter and msnbc contributor, friend of should th show greg bluestein is here. also joining us former democratic congresswoman and msnbc contributor donna edwards is back. and tara setmayer is here, senior adviser to the lincoln project and resident scholar at uva's center of politics. greg bluestein, take me inside

the holiday weekend of voting. >> well, we had a huge number of early voters this week. more than 150,000 people voted, mostly in heavily democratic areas in metro atlanta. this tends to favor senator warnock's campaign in a big way. so they feel like they've built a early cushion of votes throughout this week. we're seeing another explosion of early votes today, the first day where all 159 counties are offering early votes. we'll see what the numbers bear out. but it's a record-setting pace so far here in georgia. >> greg, you have some great reporting you've put out in a tweet. it says this. "roughly 200,000 voters backed kemp in the november midterms but wouldn't and didn't support walker. those split decisions were the biggest reason the senate race went into overtime and will play a decisive role in the december 6th runoff." is there a history in runoffs where if the candidate no matter the party didn't get over the line in the general that the turnout goes up in a runoff?

>> no. and usually we see candidates running in runoffs basically play to their bases. the lowest hanging fruit. the most likely supporters getting them to come back out. but in this race it's very different. that ad we just watched was a clear way to not just energize core democratic supporters but also go after those split ticket voters using the case that senator warnock has made all along. he's been trying to build the argument that herschel walker is unfit to serve. and in that ad we just watched it shows regular georgia voters reacting to herschel walker's stump speech. and these voters are basically making warnock's case for him. >> donna edwards, i want to show you, president obama is heading back to campaign for senator raphael warnock. let me show you his message in the state ahead of the election. >> we have to fight for this. democracy is not self-executing. it depends on us working,

nurturing, caring for it. not just on election day but every day in between. it depends on us as citizens saying this matters. so if you're scared, don't put your head under the covers. if you're anxious, don't put your head in the sand. if you're frustrated right now, don't complain. don't tune out. don't get bamboozled and fall for the okey-doke that nothing that you say matters. i need you to get off your couch and vote! >> this worked once. this was president obama's midterm message. everywhere he delivered it democrats exceeded expectations, including by democrats. he's heading back into the state. what are you expecting him to sort of emphasize as he heads in for senator warnock? >> well, i hope it's more of the

same because i think as has been pointed out the key to winning this runoff election for senator warnock is to boost turnout. and i think that if you look back at 2020 that was exactly the same thing he had to do in order to run up the score. and i think that is true for the runoff election. you can see by the turnout we've already had in early vote, especially in some of those key democratic precincts that that means that people are getting the message. and having obama as your surrogate for get out the vote could not be better than right now at this time because there are some voters who might be reluctant for whatever reason, they're not ready for a runoff election after the holidays to stay at home, and so anything that can churn those extra voters i think is really important. and you know, i think the message that obama has going into this, that president obama has, is to generate that

turnout. >> i want to talk about senator warnock's campaign, tara, both in the general and in the special. he is above the fray. some of his general election ads were about his bipartisan legislative achievements. and he seemed to grapple for a minute with what to do with someone so fundamentally and clearly unfit to serve as anything, especially in the u.s. senate. but he's landed on this brilliant strategy, i won't say it, let them say it. there are entire tv shows, right? where there are people who see things on the street. just voters listening to -- this wasn't an attack ad. this was herschel walker in his own words. and the reaction from georgians is priceless. >> yes. this is a brilliant strategy. because by now voters are sick and tired of campaign ads, the same ones. they've been inundated with these ads for months and months. now it's the holidays and ginning up support and getting voters out there. the last thing they want to do is hear another, you know,

campaign -- negative campaign ad. this is brilliant because it's actual voters. and it lets them listen, react, and see herschel walker in his unmitigated ignorance and they go you've got to be kidding me, not this guy. because the one benefit of having the runoff now is that the focus is 100% on this race. it's not distracted by other races, there's no governor's race, there's nothing else going on. they can focus now on this. and we see what the result is. i feel very confident that raphael warnock will be able to pull this out. i was a little concerned that they weren't aggressive enough. you know, us at the lincoln project, we go right for the jugular. you cannot mess around with these people. and thank god we exist. and that's okay. but for reverend warnock he's by the skin of his teeth here was not able to make it over 50%. and part of that was because there were split ticket voters with brian kemp. there were those republicans, what we call at the lincoln

project, the voters who -- the 3% to 7% of republicans who said we're not going to do this with herschel walker and split ticket voted. that's what's carried warnock this far and i think it's those voters that will come out again when they see someone who is just so unbelievably ignorant and unqualified, who's not even a real georgian at this point. he lives in texas apparently. so he's a carpetbagger on top of being ignorant. he doesn't even go here. so the voters i think are going to get that. >> and there's been so much -- i mean, the mess that is the herschel walker campaign i think can go down as sort of the most undignified foray into electoral politics. what his family seems to have gone through. the revelations about his personal life. wherever you stand on any issue, it has been i think sort of an appalling thing to have to witness. what is the sort of exhaustion factor, greg, around the walker

candidacy? >> well, there is a scandal every week, it seemed for a little while there. there was a lot of voters who ignored it all and said they were going to support herschel walker no matter what. there were some who didn't ignore it but still said they were going to support herschel walker. and there's that group of voters we were just talking about, the middle of the road republican leaning voters, it turned out to be 200,000 of them, who voted for brian kemp and did not vote for herschel walker and they played the decisive role in this election as we just talked about earlier. they're the reason why senator warnock is still in this ball game and actually came out first. didn't win, of course, outright but came out ahead of herschel walker. and that's who he's appealing to. he's trying to give those voters basically safe harbor, telling those middle of the road voters you can vote for me without having to go and say you're supporting all sorts of, you know, liberal policies because he's not emphasizing those on the campaign trail right now. >> donna, there's something weird about the way herschel walker appears with republicans, one or two, shoulder to

shoulder. i don't know if anybody has seen any of this. it's mostly on fox news. but ted cruz did an interview sitting shoulder to shoulder with him. lindsey graham, i think and ted cruz in an interview together with him. and he's in the middle of two of the most unlikable politicians our country has at the moment in either party. i think there are other republicans who sat next to him. there's been sort of an infantilizing of the walker candidacy and candidate that is stunning. what do you think that's about? >> well, what choice do they have? i mean, they're signature side by side with somebody who can barely speak a complete sentence. it is embarrassing to watch and to listen to herschel walker. and i think in some ways that's an effort to make him look senatorial. unfortunately, it's not enough. it's not going to work for voters. and i think i've listened to the ad that you played earlier with the voters without the sound on,

and the expressions on their faces says it all when it comes to responding to herschel walker. and no amount of being in between these two senators to try to make him look senatorial is going to work. >> you know, tara, who am i to -- i worked for sarah palin. so who am i to talk about candidates who say dumb things? but just looking at the voters' faces when he's talking about the air. i wrote down "it's all the same air." there is a point where you outdo the "snl" spoof. you outdo what lorne michaels and his brilliant writers could ever write for you. and herschel walker feels like he's like ten stops past that. >> yeah. i mean, they're tokenizing him is actually what they're doing. and lindsey graham said it himself to the point of absurdity. and it's insulting. it's insulting to people of color that this is who they are trotting out there and this is who they are heralding as someone qualified to be a

senator. it is really -- it just shows you what the republican party thinks of people of color, that this is the best this eph? how insulting is that? and then to have ted cruz and lindsey graham sit there and babysit him, clearly that didn't work. we saw what came out of his mouth that day. it was a disaster. it's just the mockery of it all is something that i guess we kind of sit back and go, can you believe it? but this guy came within a percentage point of winning. we need to understand that. even though we're laughing at this as the absurdity of it. but the point is that he even had a shot, that he's even this close, we need to be careful that we don't cast aside the seriousness of these types of candidates. a lot of those types of candidates came very razor thin close to winning. i think that says something also about the republican base and what republican elected officials are willing to tolerate. they're willing to tokenize an ignorant -- a person of color

because it checks the box for them and negative partisanship works and they're also willing to stay silent when they have the former president of the united states, now presidential candidate again, palling around with racist anti-semites. what does that say? that's today's republican party in a bow right there. >> and greg, to the degree that ted cruz and lindsey graham are in the state trying to boost his candidacy, is it working? >> we'll find out. we have not seen a surge of turnout in republican-leaning areas. but we've also only had a few days of early voting counting the weekend voting. but certainly they've been on the campaign trail with him. so has rick scott. so have other big-time, big name republican officials. where senator warnock, he's playing a very different game here. he's not bringing in -- other than former president obama he's not bringing in lots of big national democratic surrogates. in fact, maybe the biggest other than obama, the biggest surrogate he has is coming tonight, is dave matthews band. >> oh, wow. >> he's again making that clear pitch for swing voters. >> that's amazing.

all right, greg. this is the time when we need you to be our eyes and ears in the state. thank you so much for joining us today. tara setmayer, thank you for starting us off this hour. donna sticks around for the hour. when we come back, much more on the story we brought you at the top of the last hour. the twice impeached disgraced ex-president's dinner at mar-a-lago with an anti-semitic white supremacist, two of them. we've only just begun to scratch the surface of what actually happened at the dinner, who said what to whom, and lucky for us the reporter who broke the story will be our next guest. also ahead, retired army lieutenant colonel alexander vindman facing vile threats from far right extremists after being attacked on twitter by the one and only elon musk. colonel vindman will join us later in the hour with his response. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. continues after a quick break. n't go anywhere. ♪ ...i'm over 45. ♪ ♪ i realize i'm no spring chicken. ♪ ♪ i know what's right for me. ♪ ♪ i've got a plan to which i'm sticking. ♪ ♪ my doc wrote me the script. ♪ ♪ box came by mail. ♪ ♪ showed up on friday. ♪

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when it comes to understanding the political and domestic security implications of today's top story, the twice-impeached, disgraced ex-president hosting for dinner a well-known white supremacist, we have a bevy of fair and honest reporting to credit. at the top of the list for inside information and understanding our friends at axios who've gathered such a complete look at what went on behind closed doors. joining us now, axios national political reporter jonathan swan. jonathan, thank you for being here. we went back and looked at your interview with trump and the line of questioning you pursued with him, and i want to start with this. >> how do you think history will remember john lewis? >> i don't know. i really don't know. i don't know.

i don't know john lewis. he chose not to come to my inauguration. he chose -- i don't -- i never met john lewis, actually. i don't believe. >> do you find him impressive? >> i can't say one way or the other. i find a lot of people impressive. i find many people not impressive. no. but -- >> do you find his story impressive? >> he didn't come to my inauguration. he didn't come to my state of the union speeches. and that's okay. that's his right. and again, nobody has done more for black americans than i have. >> i understand. >> he should have come. >> i think he made a big mistake. >> taking your relationship with him out of it, do you find his story impressive, what he's done for this country? >> he was a person that devoted a lot of energy and a lot of heart to civil rights. but there were many others also. >> we watched that because we pulled the tape of what he said about david duke and it's literally the same words. "i don't know john lewis."

"i don't know david duke." does he have any aversion to racism or racists in him that you've detected? >> sorry, any what? >> does donald trump have any aversion or disgust for racists or racism in him that you've detected? >> oh. so none that i've detected because the duke incident where he would not on air really lean in to condemn him is quite similar to what we've seen now with nick fuentes. even now he's put out something like three or four statements about this dinner, as outrage builds and builds and builds. in none of them has he condemned nick fuentes. and i've talked to several of his advisers over the months and years about this. because it's not the first time this has happened. and the most common answer i've received is that he will not condemn somebody who says nice things about him and who

supports him. because they're someone who supports him. it's really not more complicated than that. and you saw -- it was interesting you pulled up that clip of lewis because that's the precise reverse of it. it doesn't matter what you do in life, whether you are heroic in your civil rights, you get beaten by cops, you know, you risk your life. if you've said nasty things about donald trump, you cannot be a hero in american life. it's actually the direct -- directly the same phenomenon. you just pulled both sides of it there. >> i guess i remember hearing from someone involved in trump's debate prep the morning after. i was driving, and i'll never forget. i pulled over because i was so aghast. about the "stand back and stand by." and i said what do you think he was saying? and he said what you just said, he wants everybody's vote including those of the proud boys. but i wonder if we need to push through that. and if it's more than just he wants everyone's vote, he wants

everyone, the g.o. tv and he doesn't want them to mail their absentee ballot, he wants whatever they do on election day, show up and/or patrol the drop boxes. but is it a shared ideology when trump has a lot of time on his hands. he could have anyone to mar-a-lago. i don't know if any of us would go, but he could have anyone. and he has kanye west and nick fuentes? i mean, is it -- does he see that sort of slice of this country, which is tragically sizable, as his political future, do you think? >> i don't because like -- donald trump, if he actually followed nick fuentes's ideology, nick fuentes believes that america is being subverted by jews and that revenge needs to be taken against the jewish people and that women should not have the right to vote and you go down the list of things. i do think trump recognizes that

that is a fringe ideology and that -- advised any of those things. i think. i haven't talked to him about this. but i think that this would not -- this would not be something that would even get him -- electorate -- >> jonathan, we're going to fine-tune your audio. you glitched out a little bit. i want to come back to you on that. donna, when you hear -- to jonathan's point, the exact same quote about david duke. "i don't know john lewis." "i don't know david duke." what do we lay over him in terms of what we think he actually would usher in if he were anywhere, as liz cheney said, anywhere near the oval office again? >> well, i think it's a through line. i think it isn't just about i don't know them. but clearly he knew who david duke was. he knows who nick fuentes is.

and certainly he knows kanye west and others. and then you go back to charlottesville and, you know, what he said there. i think that there is an absolute through line of racism and xenophobia and anti-semitism that trends right through donald trump. it isn't just that he's afraid of alienating a part of his base by not saying anything about it but i think it is because they represent at least a part of his views. otherways, it would be easy not to have dinner with someone, not to embrace them, not to talk about them, not to invite them into your political home. so i think that this is part of who donald trump is and we should not be surprised because it's who he revealed before the election, it's who he revealed during the -- during his presidency, and now it is what he continues to reveal in his post-presidency.

>> jonathan, you have some incredible reporting about the silence of the republicans in the wake of donald trump's dinner with avowed white supremacist nick fuentes and whatever kanye is called now. tell me about the republican reaction. >> it's been very muted. you've seen a few come out in the last day or two a little bit more strongly. you know, chris christie was quite strong about it. now you're seeing a few more statements kind of dribble out. but in terms of republican leaders and prominent figures in the party like governor ron desantis of florida or kevin mccarthy, who is trying to be the republican speaker of the house, you have not seen condemnations. and that tells me that there's still a lot of fear out there about alienating donald trump's supporters and that he still does have a lot of power in the party and, you know, there's a

reason why most of the quotes that people publish that are critical of him or saying that, you know, his best days are behind him are still attributed to anonymous people and we're just still not seeing the kind of unified condemnation across the leadership of elected republicans in washington. it just hasn't -- it hasn't transpired. >> jonathan swan, to your understanding, and you're the best on this beat, to what do republicans attribute their defeats in the midterms? they obviously were hoping for and expecting a red wave with the challenging economic climate and with president biden's approval ratings. to what do they attribute their catastrophic showing in the senate races? >> well, mitch mcconnell and his advisers attribute it to a large extent to donald trump. the fact that he supported in their view candidates who were

unacceptable, who did -- who underperformed what a republican in such a favorable political environment would perform normally. people in their mind like dr. oz in pennsylvania and blake masters in arizona. but i don't think that even mcconnell, who has this view, you don't see him coming out -- this is what i was getting at before. you don't see him coming out and publicly condemning donald trump like liz cheney is. i remember when i interviewed mitch mcconnell earlier in year and sort of pressed him on the fact that straight after january 6th he condemned donald trump, gave this very emotional speech on the floor where he said donald trump was morally and practically responsible for the insurrection. two weeks later he went on tv and said that he would support donald trump if he was the nominee in 2024. and mcconnell's response to me was, well, i don't think it's

any great surprise that the leader of the republican party in the senate would support the republican nominee. i said i think it's astonishing after saying that you would then say that. so he hasn't changed. he hasn't changed, though. that's been his approach, is to try to ignore trump away. and he's sort of almost -- contempt is probably too strong a word. but certainly strongly disagrees with the liz cheney approach, which is to frontally confront donald trump, vocally confront donald trump. so even the people who most blame donald trump for -- >> it's stunning. >> -- the loss of republicans are not necessarily saying that publicly. >> it's just stunning. and i hope donald trump continues to cost republicans control of the senate. but it's amazing that mitch mcconnell does too. jonathan swan, thank you so much for being here and for indulging us. we played some of your interview there with trump. when we come back, retired army lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, who risked his reputation and career to stand up for the truth against the

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when twitter was taken over by elon musk just a little over a month ago there were all sorts of questions that all of us had about how musk, who describes himself as a free speech

absolutist, would manage the platform. not just for others but as a user. it serves as a sort of virtual town square online for many. it didn't take long for musk to make abundantly clear what kind of platform he would allow and participate in. within weeks of taking the helm, musk reinstated the twitter accounts of both kanye west and the twice impeached disgraced ex-president among many others. accounts that were suspended for failing to comply with twitter's old rules on abuse and hate speech. and in the former president's case fears of inciting more deadly violence in the wake of january 6th insurrection. now, the danger that musk poses to the company became more apparent this weekend when twitter's ceo embraced right-wing accounts, engaging in a spat with a good friend of this program, lieutenant colonel alexander vindman. over the weekend splaind was one of many twitter users who

criticized musk for his handling on the app and of the app suggesting it was too much power for one person to wield. when another user pointed it out to musk he tweeted this in response. "vindman is both puppet and puppeteer. question is who pulls his strings." in the aftermath of the tweet vindman was subject to an onslaught of tweets and messages from right-wing accounts spewing more hate speech and anti-semitism against vindman and leading him to tweet that he had "never" received something like this. joining us now retired u.s. army lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, former director of european affairs for the national security council. so i hate twitter, and i can't wait for musk to burn it all down so we never have to be there anymore. but what i thought was so striking was before i knew you there was a segment over on fox news hosted by laura ingraham in which she and john yu and i think the trump lawyer alan dershowitz were basically asking these same questions musk is asking, who is he working for,

who are his loyalties? and i called them chicken shit on the air. i just did it again there. for questioning your loyalties. but musk has picked that up. and it evoked a torrential outpouring of hatred. i don't want to play all of what they said about you but i wonder, one, to what do you attribute to t., and two, what do you think we should do about twitter if any of us are on it? >> you know, it's interesting. this is the nature of musky twitter. this is the way he intends to run this platform into the ground. i don't know how he gets anything done. he's tweeting at 1:30, 1:50 in the morning on another tirade on a non-profit i worked with, kind of keeping to donald trump's schedule, i guess staying up, drinking cokes at night, not working throughout the day. so i'm not sure how he intends to run it. i know what the intent is. it's intimidation. i think the whole idea is to use his megaphone, it's his platform, to try to shout people

down, intimidate them. this is straight out of the authoritarian handbook. this is how authoritarian leaders around the world would potentially deal, dispense with critics, raising some concerns about how they're moderating the 21st century public square. i don't know. i've got to take this with a bit of a light heart, though. i've now triggered the most powerful man in the world, formerly president donald trump, and most wealthy man in the world. i think i'm okay as long as it's not the -- as long as it's not the strongest man in the world i'll be okay. >> will you stay on twitter? >> i -- you know, i'm not going to be intimidated off twitter. i've now kind of signed on to this new platform called post that looks good. appearancewise it looks good. it looks like it's going to be well managed. but twitter, i've amassed a large following, almost a million people, and it's a way for me to get a message out

about what's going on with regards to geopolitics, what's going on with regards to our relationship with russia and the war that russia's waging on ukraine. it's a way for me to influence people. it's a way for me to influence policy makers. it's a way for me to generate news. and i think it's important, as long as there's a demand for me to contribute in that way i'm happy to continue to serve in that regard. i'm not going to be scared off. but i am hedging. i'm looking for other opportunities to be able to, you know, look for the demise of twitter, there are other platforms out there to continue to evangelize for american national security and democracy. and also to frankly hold folks accountable. trump and musk have something in common. they do not want to be held accountable. they believe they can act with impunity. that's not going to happen with me. if i see them behaving beyond the pale, engaging in race

baiting, in hate, in anti-semitism, i will call them out and i'll bring attention to them. it must feel uncomfortable for somebody like musk, who spent $44 billion on this platform as a ego boost, to then have, you know, somebody like me, regular american really, call him out on it and get hundreds of thousands of people to weigh in, have my commentary seen by millions of people and really frankly kind of mock him a little bit for the kind of person he is. >> what do you -- i mean, you're right. you do trigger trump and musk in a unique way. why do you think that is? >> yeah. and my wife and my brothers probably also. but seriously, i think some of that has to do with the fact that they don't understand somebody like me. they don't understand a career public servant that's basically committed to something that's bigger than myself, something that's bigger than even the

institution of the army. it's the idea of the fact that i'm contributing to the defense and the prosperity and building the more perfect union that's the united states. they don't understand that. they're in it for the dollar. they're in it for glory. they're in it -- and i think that kind of thing, you know, being measured up in that regard to somebody that has a completely different worldview, that really doesn't care about making billions of dollars, i think that is a reflection on them. it shines a late on who they are and their own kind of shortfalls for themselves. at least i hope so. that would be a reflective kind of thought about, you know -- that maybe there's a reflection that they can do better. but maybe it's something more base. it's they're narcissists and they don't care about anything of that nature and just want to use their platform to belittle and berate people like donald

trump and elon musk have done countless times now. >> lieutenant colonel alexander vindman is staying with us. we want to talk to you about ukraine and all the developments there. we will put to colonel vindman and donna questions about what it will take for ukraine to continue to rack up victories on the battlefield, all the while sustaining brutal terrorist attacks against civilians. quick break for us. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like: just stop. go for a run. go for 10 runs!

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for months we've heard and covered the warnings winter is coming to ukraine and with it brutal conditions for the ukrainian people. with snow falling in the capital city of kyiv for the first time millions in and around the city are now getting their first taste of what the next phase of this war will look like and feel like. ukraine's energy grid struggled to hold after the latest round of russian air strikes, leaving many without power and heat. ukraine's president zelenskyy warns that more strikes from russia are on the way. we're back with alexander vindman and donna edwards. one thing about twitter that is important, colonel vindman, is the ukrainian experience. people there are able to get the word out and the message out and we have a little granular understanding of what putin's war there looks like. and it is clear now that he is carrying out a campaign of terrorist attacks against the civilian population. just talk about what ukraine faces right now and what they need. >> yeah, i've got to say the

social media impact for this war has been amazing to keep people engaged and united around support for ukraine. you know, what's clear to me is that this will be a very tough winter for the civilian population. there will be intermittent utility blackouts, whether that's power, water, thermal because they have centralized heating. i think those are going to be the case for the coming weeks at least, maybe a month or so, although russia's stocks of these strike capabilities, these cruise missiles have gone so low where the russians are taking soviet-era cruise missiles that were armed with nuclear warheads, removing the nuclear warheads, adding ballast and striking targets in ukraine because they've run so low on these only systems that can threaten the civilian population. so they're just going to run out eventually. but it's going to be a tough winter. it's going to be a tough winter for the military, ukrainian military. but what ukraine's military benefits from is that there is a

care for human life. folks will be rotated off the front lines. they'll get the warm gear that they need. it's going to be a brutal winter for the russian soldiers. thousands and thousands will die. we will see pictures of thousands freezing to death. because the russians are callous with their personnel. they're callous with human life. and folks will just freeze in their foxholes. and the ukrainians are going to get the upper hand, as they have at various phases almost consistently through this war and find vulnerabilities to exploit and liberate more territory. this is not going to be a static, completely static war. there might be lulls in various points of time but the ukrainians will continue to conduct combat operations, continue to keep the russians off balance and continue to make headway. but it will be a tough winter. it's but it's going to be a tough winter. we're going to watch it on our screens, and we're going to see people that are suffering. and what we could do as a country and as the u.s. government is provide ukraine with resources they need, whether that's warm weather gear -- correct, cold weather

gear or resources in terms of military personnel to make sure it doesn't last another winter tom make sure they're successful in liberating territory, not contracting a war that could spiral in who knows what directions, and that's what we should be doing the next several months. >> donna, the midterms told us a lot, but also told us that president biden's strategy of standing with president zelenskyy in seeking and in a good faith effort to give him what he and his country need is in line with our country's values. what do you make of the space he has after the midterms and how, as colonel vindman is talk about, how biden can bolster against the military through the windter. >> i do think president biden has a lot of running room with the american people when it comes to supporting ukraine.

i worry the republicans coming in control in january have already threatened support for the effort in ukraine, and that concerns me. but i do think there's still a lot of strong bipartisan support in the senate, even if it doesn't fully exist in the house. but it's really encumbent on us to provide these supplies both through this winter, but the material that colonel vindman talked about, it's going to be important for them to wage this fight, and the fight against russia is our fight. it is a fight for democracy and the rule of law. it's out of fight. and i think the american people recognize that. look, i was in ukraine in december three years ago, and it was cold then with heat. and so i think that we have to pay attention to the suffering of the ukrainian people and give them what they need. >> lieutenant colonel alexander vindman who says he's staying on twitter for now, and donna

edwards. thanks so much to both of you for spending time with us today. quick break. we'll be right back. k. we'll be right back. from santa claus, indiana to snowflake, arizona. from garland, texas to north pole, new york and everywhere in between. we're holiday ready with fast and reliable delivery, serving every address in america. the united states postal service. for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're so grateful. "the beat" with ari melber back in the chair start right now. hi, ari. >> good to be back. happy