this 25-year-old floridian, youngest member of the house, organizer of color as he says himself. two quick hints, president biden called him on election night to congratulate him, and there was a welcome meal for new members of congress, and who was sitting next to speaker pelosi, max frost. >> the headline says georgia's gen z closer. mike allen, thank you so much, have a great weekend. and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this friday morning. we hope you have a wonderful weekend too. stick around, "morning joe" starts right now. since the last time i was here, mr. walker has been talking about issues that are of great importance to the people of georgia. like whether it's better to be a vampire or a werewolf. this is a debate that i must

confess i once had myself when i was 7. in case you're wondering, by the way, mr. walker decided he wanted to be a werewolf, which is great as far as i'm concerned he can be anything he wants to be except for a united states senator. >> wow. former president barack obama, the hits keep coming with him, campaigning for the reelection of senator rafael warnock ahead of tuesday's runoff. we're going to play more from that event. he was on fire. plus -- >> that's a great line, though. michael steele, it's a debate i had myself one time, when i was 7. >> i chose vampire. >> plus, michigan in, iowa out. president biden calls for a major shakeup in the way democrats choose their presidential nominee.

we'll have the latest on that. also, another legal defeat for donald trump. after an appeal's court overturns the appointment of a special master in the mar-a-lago documents case, we'll explain what this means for the investigation going forward. and congress masses last minute legislation to keep railways moving. so what happened to the request from workers concerning paid sick leave? we'll have the latest on that. >> were you thinking about calling out for sick leave today? >> i was. we were out very late last night. >> for us, late. >> we're never out and we were out late. >> for watching wheel of fortune, and then going to sleep. >> it was a lovely evening at the state dinner with french president emmanuel macron, and it was just beautiful. and i kind of can't remember an event like this at the white house for about six years, really. given covid and then obviously the trump years but it was very

joyful. >> it was joyful. it was great to have everybody back. i mean, it was a little late for my tastes. i mean, mika, i got to tell you, george, mika, she tricked me into going. she said we were going to a steak dinner. i was like, okay, we'll go to quincys i'll be back by 6:30. she said it's the good quincy's, not the one you usually go to. it was fantastic. i will say, though. michael, when they got up and gave the speech, it was a real moment. it was another one of those surreal moments where for a second you stop and say wait a second, we're in an extraordinary time. joe biden gets up, talks about the sort of things that all presidents have talked about, but really hasn't had the residence, because you've heard it so many times. freedom, thankful for liberal

democracy. he talked about all of these values, and then macron got up, basically reiterated it, and said i'm holding in my hand the constitution, and talks about liberal democracy. it's not just a fight in ukraine. it's not just a fight across parts of europe. it's a fight in our own countries. and he held it up and he said, we the people, we the people. >> and everybody started clapping. >> that's a good party trick. >> it was incredible. >> you like to get outside of a room like that, so everybody can see how democracies work. >> in english, right, he spoke in english. >> in english, and the fact that he said we the people at a time when the united states had i

think against most odds from what i expected, the united states rejected, the american people rejected every significant election denier. said, no, not you. whacko secretary of state. not you, bizarre, you know, gubernatorial candidate. not you, conspiracy theorist freak. we the people. we the people. it was very moving. >> it was a beautiful night. with us here in washington, we have former chairman of the republican national committee. >> i stop you for a second. >> you're interrupting me, can you believe this. >> i want to give everybody a tip, for young reporters, when somebody throws an opinion at you and you're a reporter, you don't have to respond. did you see what elizabeth just did? >> nothing. >> a polite smile. >> she's the most elegant reporter in washington. she said that's your opinion and maybe i agree with you and maybe i don't, i'm just going to smile. >> you don't have to talk. >> that's power right there.

>> you don't have to tweet. you don't have to respond. >> this is actually a really good point. >> thank you, dear. >> elizabeth miller is here. attorney and contributing columnist for "the washington post," george conway is with us, and congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post" jackie alemany. >> they're all going to nod and smile this morning. you have to give your opinion. >> i'm going to nod and smile. i'm exhausted, i don't know if i can make it through the four hours. is this show four hours? are we certifiable. >> and we have jonathan lemire. it's very interesting. we have prince william and princess kate. >> how did we get here. >> up in boston today, they're going to be meeting the president. you and barnicle and everybody else in boston are talking about one thing, how their reiterate is going to impact a part of boston. what was it? >> first of all, i should that you both looked great last

night. cleaned up very nicely. my invitation perhaps lost in the mail. mr. barnicle and i are concerned about the prince and princess of wales being up in boston particularly ahead of celtics and bruins games. they attended a celtics game the other night, and let's hope they stick around, joe, to saturday morning to watch in boston team usa in their do or die world cup game against the netherlands. >> you're not concerned about market basket? >> so market basket is a beloved new england chain of grocery stores, knock it basket, it's called there. i spent a year working at the high school. mike barnicle spends most mornings there, unclear what he's doing. there was, though, a very amusing social media post where the king, the prince and princess are going to be at the

one in summerville, and people were concerned deeply about the traffic, that they would have a hard time getting to the market basket because of the traffic. and now the president is coming too. get your groceries early this morning, you won't be able to later. >> somebody tweeting the most boston thing ever. here you have the future king and queen in a picture, and everybody in boston is complaining about parking for the market basket. >> i see mike barnicle later. >> another loss for former president donald trump. this stings and certainly stings for a certain district court judge in florida who really made a fool of herself pretty early in here career. >> yes, a federal appeals court ruled yesterday that a judge's order appointing a special master to review documents seized from trump's mar-a-lago home and club over the summer

should be dismissed. the ruling made by a three judge panel of the 11th circuit court of appeals lifts earlier restrictions on the justice department's examination of classified documents and other records, and allows investigators to proceed with the probe more quickly. we all were surprised by that decision, and now here we are. >> insane decision. >> the panel stated that u.s. district judge aileen cannon's order to appoint a special master and prevent the government from using the trove of documents that were retrieved with a search warrant from mar-a-lago on august 8th was incorrect. in september, judge cannon, a trump appointee selected judge raymond dearie to review the materials retrieved from mar-a-lago. >> we'll politely call him a skeptic. >> after trump team's argued it couldn't rely on the filter team at the doj to set aside any privileges documents. in a separate order, the three-judge panel up of two

judges appointed by trump, and one appointed by former president george w. bush stated its ruling will take effect in seven days barring any intervention by the supreme court. >> donald trump could appeal, and just a couple of things, george. as you know, i revere the rule of law. i don't like speaking ill of any federal judges because i'm not there. as you know, just like a jury. try not to second guess juries. this was obvious from the beginning from legal scholars on the left and right that this woman was being a hack, a political hack for donald trump. she was making a fool of herself. she had no basis in law for anything that she was doing, and what a validation, the bigger story here is once again, the rule of law holds in the united states of america, what a validation that you have the 11th circuit, a very conservative circuit but also no nonsense. >> absolutely. and they shut her down. again, the supreme court as

well. >> he doesn't have a snowball's chance in the supreme court. he has lost all of his personal cases at the supreme court, essentially. this judge is an exception. that's the point we need to remember. there was a lot of suggestion that oh, my gosh, it's going to go up to the 11th circuit with all of these trump appointees, this decision never had a chance. it was based upon a legal complaint by trump that even his own former attorney bill barr said was a crock of -- i won't use the word. and, you know, her decision was even worse because it went even farther than trump did. what's great, you mentioned two of the court of appeals judges on the panel were appointed by trump. the first one is a great judge from alabama, appointed by george w. bush. bill pryor who was actually one of the names that trump floated during the 2016 campaign as

those he was going to choose from. and the opinion was just brutal. >> oh, it was blistering. >> it just eviscerated her, and basically said we had three choices, one is to follow the law, the second is to make a rule that basically says that every drug dealer who gets found in his basement can delay things with the special master or special rule for ex-presidents. >> can trump delay this by appeal something. >> no. >> so what's the time line moving forward. >> the time line is going to be the time line of the justice department. it's controlled by the justice department. it was already controlled by the justice department because trump essentially lost the case on a stay application with three earlier judges on a different panel than the 11th circuit. also dominated by republicans. basically the restrictions

placed on the justice department were already lifted. >> isn't amazing, everything. in my opinion, you cut it any way you want to, but so many losses from donald trump legally have come from republican judges, republican judges. republican supervisors of elections. republican secretary of states, republican governors, and listen, i've got problems with my former party. so many problems with my former party. i do think once in a while in the age of twitter, we should draw a deep breath and say wait a second a very conservative supreme court has said no to trump time and time again. a very conservative 11th circuit, no. the secretary of state of georgia will probably in the end be the person responsible for donald trump being indicted in the state. there have been republicans that have held the line for democracy, and we can't ever overlook that fact.

>> this is just another loss for trump on all fronts. i mean, we can go on and on about the senate candidates of his who lost, the investigations are heating up, especially the documents investigation at the justice department. there is -- and then, you know, republican officials who are now denouncing him, so his republican party is shrinking and shrinking and shrinking. we had a piece this morning about peter baker about how trump's republican party is shrinking to the far right extreme, and there's a sense of the only way for him to get momentum is to reach out to the intense, tiny, you know, anti-semitic in many cases minority. look what happened last night. he sent a video to a fundraiser for the families of the defendants in january 6th. he sent a supportive video.

this is three or four days after stewart rhodes was convicted of sedition. he is now in the most extreme corner of the republican party. i don't see where this goes in 2024. >> michael steele, he does continue to shrink the party, and unfortunately for a lot of republicans who want to start winning elections, i'll put newt gingrich in that category. i don't know if you saw newt's column yesterday, but he said republicans keep making the same mistake. they keep underestimating joe biden. what joe biden has done with a small majority has been nothing short of awe inspiring. he should be compared to reagan and eisenhower, and if they want to keep making fun of his memory or the way he walks or talks. they can do that. joe biden will just keep beating

them. you add to that, donald trump's insanity, his association with kanye. let's not even get started with that. >> let's set that aside. there's more there. >> the extremism of the republicans. we could say for four years, we're not going to say marjorie taylor greene's name on this show, why give back the -- and you look at judiciary committee, still a tweet up praising kanye west. >> they deleted it. >> oh, did they delete that last night? >> finally. >> after he went on --. >> a swastika. >> after he made those comments about hitler. >> so they finally deleted it. >> took praise of adolph hitler to get them to do this and a swastika. >> here's my take away on all of this at this point, we've got past donald trump. i think people kind of appreciate that now. >> do you think that?

>> well, let me explain how. it's not -- you know, the media and others still want to focus on the man and, you know, what he's trying to do, what he's trying to say. we're past that. i'm now looking at where the party leadership is trying to move itself. and the more telling thing for me was not the dinner that donald trump had with fuentes and kanye. it was the lack of response from political want to bes, who want to be president, the governor of florida, which i still don't think he's put a statement out on that. >> wow. >> the leadership of the party, oh, we don't like anti-semitism without saying that the anti-semitic former president is the case to be made against. >> and is not fit. >> and to draw that very bright line and say this is not who we are, nor is it who we want to be. >> right.

>> i have not heard it, and you won't. for the very reasons you said. that small fraction of the party still has political, financial, and other sway and control over the leadership. marjorie taylor greene will be the most powerful speaker of the house because she will have the opportunity to control what comes out of kevin's mouth around the things that matter to that small cadre. >> you're saying she's going to be the speaker? >> i just call the thing what it is, you call it shadow. i call it the thing. it's the job. because what you can't make that separation, when she is -- you're dragging her to your events and propping her up, telling her we're going to put you back in committee, we're going to give you a powerful leadership role. come on. >> i'm going to make a bumper sticker out of this and put it

on my prius, does anybody here think i have a prius. i call the thing what it is. just call the thing what it is. that's it. >> that's what he meant. okay. >> i mean, marjorie taylor greene has more twitter followers, facebook followers, bigger social media following than any republican in the house. james comer told us in an interview a few weeks ago that she was going to be an asset to the committee because of that reason. >> because of her twitter following. >> being able to elevate their message of what they're doing from an investigative perspective was going to be helpful for him no matter what. this is exactly the game that trump played all four years that other republicans are mimicking, condemning something just enough for people to sort of say, okay, he denounced it, and that allows other republicans to say, the media is splitting hairs. when you say it wasn't a forceful enough condemnation, you know, and that's what's

happening right now with people like kevin mccarthy who, you know, you had his allies trotted out around shows all this past week defending him saying that he denounced trump forcefully. he didn't, and that is a game that he is playing so he can become speaker of the house, and get the remaining house speaker caucus votes, and it's a game presidential candidates are going to continue to play until they're the nominee. >> it's funny, they say the media is splitting hairs. they're the ones splitting hairs. i can play you joni ernst's condemnation. she wasn't splitting hairs, mitt romney's condemnation. he wasn't splitting hairs. there's some people that aren't splitting hairs. so jonathan lemire, what's so fascinating it's so hilarious that there's somebody trusted with the voting card that believes that power and

influence is -- and standing that would help a political party is connected to how many extremists somebody has following them on twitter. this is the mistake that donald trump that be making, the republican party has been making for six years now, for every extremist that marjorie taylor greene brings to a cause, she offends five, you know, ten, maybe a hundred suburban voters in atlanta, and suburbs of philly. all over the country. again, this is a losing proposition. and i said it yesterday, it's not like i didn't have these extremists when i was at town hall meetings. you're sitting there talking about an issue and somebody screams they're going to have to pull the -- you're laughing because you know. pull the gun out of my cold dead hands. so if you end that capital

gains, too, you don't go over and hug them and say come on up and talk. you talk about capital gains and keep walking on. but they're running to that, and again, for my dear former republican colleagues, i say this to help you. for every person you pick up with marjorie taylor greene, you lose ten to joe biden in '24. this is basic math. they can't figure that out, and jonathan, i don't know if you saw the newt gingrich op-ed yesterday, it was remarkable. talk about a guy who's actually finally telling the republican party the truth about what they're up against, and why they keep losing. >> mike allen and i discussed that column earlier on "way too early," and beginning rich says he was watching thanksgiving football, had a clarifying moment about winning versus losing, and he's like, joe biden is winning, and we are losing. >> can i just ask a question.

>> sure. >> if you lose in 2017, if you lose in 2018, if you lose the governorships and lose in louisiana, and kentucky in 2019, i mean, if you lose 2020 the house and the senate, i mean, and you lose -- >> joe. >> in '22, it's like that geico commercial, where those kids are running away from the ax murderers and they keep running toward him. at some point -- >> if i said this -- go ahead, jonathan. >> you can mention all of those losses, but for newt gingrich, it's when the giants lost to the cowboys, to clarify, it's winning and losing. this debate you're having around the table about whether to elevate the rhetoric of these extremists, the marjorie taylor greene's, that's the same debate in the west wing over the last

few weeks. the republicans are poised to take control of the house of representatives next month, and they made a decision. they're going to. they for the first year of the biden presidency, remember he would barely mention donald trump's name. they would ignore the back benchers. they have decided now they're going to put a light on what they're saying, extremists believing they could effectively make the marjorie taylor greene's of the republican party as the face of the party. they think that will turn off the swing voters and the biden white house will be doing so. >> can i tell you how republicans used to be? >> how was that? >> i got elected in '94. i wasn't supposed to get elected. '96, 100 million in ads, we were going to destroy medicare. we were kind of worried, a lot of freshman loss in '96. i get 73%. next morning my dad says, hey, let me pick you up, we'll drive

around and pick up the signs, you know, so declutter. we're driving around listening to wcco, and in the congressional race, joe scarborough won a massive landslide, 73-27%, my dad, his hands start shaking and he turns off the radio. who the hell were those 27%, and i swear to god, that's how we thought. how i still think. just how do the republicans put up with all of this. i'm not saying they're losers as people, but how do you put up with so much. i couldn't deal with only getting 73%. how do they deal with losing year after year after year after

year. >> four times in a row. >> for a failed reality tv host. this is a legitimate question. this is not how we think. >> that's not how we think. >> in fact, when i became chairman in 2009, what animated my chairmanship was we had just lost the midterms in '06 and the presidential in '08, and the party was on the ropes for that, and the question became how do we reimagine the party for the american people. and to your point, like you did as a congressional candidate in '94, as we did with our congressional team and our statewide team in 2010, we were on the ground talking to voters and putting forth in front of voters what we believed in. of course the big debate was health care, so we had a political/policy conversation. where does the party go when it has no platform? where does the party go when the

best, biggest ideas, gee, let's convene a meeting and we're going to do a review of what? you lost. the evidence is obvious and why you lost, mitch mcconnell already told you, quality of candidates, the lack of a message. these things do matter still in politics, and newt gingrich is exactly right. joe biden, despite all the hiccups and problems was able to pivot off that in a way, cut through that and resonate with the voters. >> one of the gerrymandered republican districts, if you're jim jordan, it's a matter of your own survival. there's enough districts, i'm not suggesting it's the right thing but it motivates them, and they still need trump's base. >> those gerrymandered districts have gotten you a four-seat majority in the house, so so much for that. >> and there's one in new york that wouldn't have happened. >> and colorado is still out. we'll see. >> they're not even win, kevin

mccarthy thought they were going to get 60 votes. again, george, it's the antithesis of what i thought republicans were about, which was winning. people would ask me my strategy, we're going to burn their campaign to the ground and salt the earth so nothing ever grows there again. what does that mean? we're going to beat them so bad their dog is embarrassed to walk down the street. we got to win. >> that's what's happening to them. >> we can't do anything if we don't win elections and they just keep losing. and it's the voters also in senate races, not just gerrymandered house races. i want answers. i don't understand my old party. >> it's simple. it's simple. they're hostage to a 20, 30, 40% of the party that is completely high on this toxic fox news propaganda and with trump still.

that's the problem, as elizabeth just pointed out is that you cannot -- you cannot piss these people off. you're going to get primaried and lose this election. that's why you see this lack of courage. you're a congressman in one of these districts. you don't care. you want to win your race. you don't want to get primaried and it doesn't matter what happens in the swing districts, and the other thing is we have this former president who's going to run again. who is running again, announced he's running again, who's going to be indicted, at least once, probably two or three times. and he's going to get the nomination. because the only way he can be beaten is one on one. all of these people, i mean, there was something about asa hutchinon going to iowa or somewhere in new hampshire, if all of these people run, trump's going to win with 30 or 40%. >> if you got an indicted presidential candidate, you

think that is -- >> it's possible. >> and that is -- >> it's not going to stop. >> the indictment is going to come down before the primary. >> right. and those people are going to say, they're picking on him, and i will show them. i'm going to vote for donald trump. >> that's true. that will happen. >> and the vote gets split. ten other ways. five other ways. >> we'll see. still ahead, everybody stay right here, because you guys are keeping us awake. this is good. thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," president biden leaves the door open to a potential meeting with russian president vladimir putin. we'll show you his new comments about that specifically. plus, as republicans argue amongst themselves over continued support of ukraine, former president george w. bush weighs in on the ongoing war, what he's saying about u.s. involvement there. also this morning, we'll be joined by majority whip jim clyburn who just survived a

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the new england patriots, newt gingrich realized losing is back. >> that's funny. >> the bills, we won't talk about the patriots. it as new era. the bills and josh allen, it's interesting, probably one of the three best teams in the league, and they've got nothing but, i can't say the s word, nothing but garbage, crap, the whole season, oh, josh allen, he doesn't play well in the clutch, oh, the bills. no, they're playing in a great conference. they're going to be there at the end. he looked great last night again. >> he had been battling an injury for a few weeks. you couldn't have told last night. he was great with both his arms and legs. the patriots were out classed. the less about them, the better. the bills are good. let's remember they lost their heartbreaker to the chiefs in the playoffs. they're playing well, but they have stumbled here or there. and they do, the miami dolphins and tua at qb are explosive.

that's going to be a great race to win that division, and kansas city losing out west. that's probably the three best teams in the afc, a year that feels wide open. there's no overwhelming favorite. >> are you a ravens fan? >> ravens and commanders. >> that's really something. >> you like the commanders. do you really? >> yeah. now, just hold on. >> they're writing negative articles about dan snyder for decades, is he going to leave? >> i think that footprint is being created for him. the fact that he made the statement that he did. >> he just needs to leave. >> the fact that he made the statement about getting bank of america involved in the search or finding the financing for sale tells you there's a lot of pressure internally inside the

nfl ownership. there's certainly a lot of pressure externally when there are more of the opponent's fans in the stands. the writing is on the wall. never say never. never change the name. never going to sell. well, we've changed the name. >> needed that. >> for people that haven't been around, that weren't around washington before dan snyder took the team over. it's hard to explain. i'm not an enough guy. i'm an s.e.c. football guy, but it's hard to explain. you get the morning people would pick you up. you'd go to rfk, people would be jumping up and down. the entire stadium would be moving. it was really the most exciting nfl games i have ever been to in my entire life, and then snider takes it over. they build a mausoleum in maryland. it's hard to explain.

then redskins games brought this entire community together. every sunday. it was incredible. >> the jack cook years. >> the stadium -- they wanted something big built before he passed and that's what they got out in largo. the reality for the commanders, then redskins was that was a franchise that had a waiting list, a 35-year waiting list of people who wanted season tickets. that's all gone. fan base is broken. >> you need to send jeff bezos a commanders jersey. >> more than one at this point. a lot of folks like the bezos opportunity here. we'll see if that's put together in a way that brings minority ownership to the table. and works for the city. because remember, the goal is to put a new footprint over at the rfk stadium. that's where they want the new

stadium to go. the city wants the new stadium to go there but not until there's probably a change in ownership. jackie, talking about switching gears quickly, but not because we're talking about washington from washington football to state dinner to the rail strike. a lot of talk last night. a lot of chatter how they really, white house, really averted disaster yesterday by getting that deal done. >> and even got republican support. we saw a bernie sanders and ted cruz exchange a fist bump. >> dogs and cats. >> that right there makes my eyes hurt. okay. we'll take it. >> but another example of what newt gingrich was saying about joe biden's ability while criticized for maybe his style

and not so artful way of speaking, the way he's able to navigate these situations, which i think if there was potentially a republican majority in the house and the senate would cause some sort of melt down. >> the big issue was paid sick leave, one of them, and they didn't really get exactly everything they wanted. >> no, they didn't. >> but it does, i think, open up a potentially national conversation for this going forward. >> and i think that's the plan from people i have spoken to, it's not over. that they, you know, averted disaster yesterday, but those issues are not dead. >> seven days of paid sick leave. >> if you're a worker, you cannot get paid time off to go to a doctor's appointment, this is nuts. >> that's just ridiculous. >> which is why you had progressives voting against it,

along with republicans. it was an interesting meeting of people who were opposed to it as well on both sides, so. >> but you're right, i mean, that's something that i think every american would agree, seven days sick leave to go to a doctor's appointment, they deserve that. they need that. >> in the end, it's still a win for joe biden to newt gingrich's point, you know, he averted going into the holiday christmas season, something that would further disrupt the supply chain and create a lot of hardship for families across the country. >> this goes to the fact that this guy knows how to win even when it hurts, even when it hurts him. there's a lot of union representation last night at the state dinner. >> there was. >> that's his base. and he had to go against his base, but you know what, when you've been around long enough, people trust you, that you'll go back and make things right, and here's another example of how,

you know, he said he can make things work. he said he could pass legislation. he said he could work with both sides. people were skeptical of that on the right. the media was skeptical of that. you have a lot of democrats, a lot of progresses that early on were saying the he will -- hell with the republicans. he keeps, as newt gingrich said, winning, as republicans keep losing. >> it's a win that pained the president. you could tell. he spoke candidly about this yesterday in his news conference with emanuel macron ahead of the dinner. he knows these are his people, his base. he's a trained guy and also a labor guy, a union guy, and the white house has prided itself on being the most pro labor in generations. there were a lot of workers unhappy this morning about how this went down, but there is a sense to jackie's point that may have opened up a national conversation. this could be revisited sooner

than later but the president spoke about how paid sick leave is something that should happen. he knew this deal wasn't perfect. but he wasn't going to let perfect be the enemy of good. sometimes being president is about making tough decisions. he agonized but recognized it had to be done. the economic impact of a strike, particularly now before the holidays as the nation grapples with supply chain issues and inflation would be too devastating. he had to make the call even though he wasn't all that happy about it. >> you have to get to 60 in the senate. he couldn't get to 60. you know, he could have shut down a good chunk of the economy, or taken the deal that was in front of him and he did what responsible presidents would do. >> jackie alemany always good to have you on with us. >> we just found out about jackie's coffee habits. >> sugar problem. if my dad is watching, it comes from him. >> is he a sugar guy too. >> dunkin' donuts, he gets like five pumps of caramel.

>> five pumps of caramel. >> and they put so much cream. >> and you four of. >> three to four of mocha. >> she's wide awake. . >> that will keep you going in the morning. >> coming up, the biden administration is pushing for a change to the primary calendar. we'll tell you which state it wants first, and how lawmakers are responding. but up next is another win or go home game for team usa. we'll have a preview of tomorrow's big match versus the netherlands. "morning joe" will be right back. netherlands. "morning joe" will be right back nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like: just stop. go for a run. go for 10 runs! run a marathon.

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just making a big run. it's meant for him. des snuck in behind. scores. and as the ball comes across, it's captain america to the rescue for the united states, and he runs right into the goal keeper at the end of this, but lays it all on the line for his team and for his country. and gets his moment. >> what did it feel to you now that you have that forever moment? because a lot of talk is about that goal against nigeria, and now you had your moment, your first big moment. how do you feel about that? >> it feels great to score in a world cup. timmy knows what that's like. i think -- i'm hoping i haven't had that moment yet, to be honest, i'm hoping it's in front of me. feels great to be where we're at right now, but there's still more to come. >> wow, okay.

that's american soccer star christian pulisic, the goal that send him directly to the hospital. >> he's okay. >> for a what contusion? >> pelvic contusion. >> now, don't focus on this. it's early in the morning. >> it's hard for some of us guys not to focus on it. >> it's all good. >> the united states is going to play in a must win match against the netherlands, kick off at 10:00 a.m. coverage. streaming on peacock. the knockout round continued to take place yesterday in qatar. unbelievable. it's not going to include germany. how many times have they won? four? two. >> three times. >> no. >> we really don't know. you're supposed to be the expert. >> three stars on there. >> we'll see. >> alex, figure out how many and

make it sound smart. they were eliminated. this is the second time they have been eliminated in the past 40 years from the group stage. despite a 4-2 win over costa rica. of the four-time champion, maybe i should read the script. japan, i love watching japan play the beautiful game. they claim the top spot in group b with a 2-1 win over spain. though spain still advances, runner up based on superior goal differential. belgium could not find the net in a scoreless draw against croatia. i'm tired of reading scripts. let's talk. so first of all, why don't we start with belgium. >> yeah. >> they're a great team. >> yeah. >> this is frankfort, by the way, staff writer at the atlantic. >> also with us -- >> i read how soccer explains the world. and also staff writer at the new

republic, alex shepherd, wrote an extraordinary piece on team usa and spoke for all of us when they said, they never really seemed like they belonged in the past. this team, belgium, first of all, out. a shock. >> they were the number two ranked team according to fifa's rankings. those are kind of bogus rankings. they had this golden generation, the cliche you hear applied to this team constantly. kevin, one of the greatest players in the game, and yet they couldn't put it together. they played reasonable well yesterday against croatia, but the beauty of these last games in the group stage is that you have these teams that are hanging on for dear life. >> by the way, a great example of that, i have never seen anybody -- you look in the

webster's dictionary next year, winning ugly, next to it will the polish men's football team. that was the ugliest, let's stall for 80 minutes, hope we don't get eviscerated by messi, and hope something good happens on the other side of qatar. >> just throw our bodies on the line, and yeah, so that's the way you play if you're in one of these games, and you have these banana moments like yesterday where there was this possibility that both germany and spain would have been eliminated from the tournament. >> unbelievable. and, alex, by the way, anytime we have vo of people hitting balls, pitches, we can put that up. japan, i have always loved watching japan play. they are just so precise. but japan, who would have believed yesterday they'd of almost gotten spain and germany out of the tournament, the same day. >> it's extraordinary.

they won with 22% of possession. they also lost to costa rica, the team who lost the first game to the spanish team they lost game. in the games against spain and germany, they were clinical. barely had the ball. when they did, they were perfect. the goal they're showing right now, the 99.5% of the ball goes over the line, that sums it all up. when it mattered, they got it done. >> yeah. so it's the ball over the line. play to the whistle. >> just because part of the ball is not over the line maybe the over hang, the little far part is over the line. >> alex, was the ball over the line? >> it was not over the line. the ball was still in play. it was very much still in play. >> it's great. let's talk about team usa. alex, again, you talked about

how you were mary magdalene in jesus christ superstar. i don't know how to love him. if you spend our weekends as we do watching premier league football, sometimes it's been painful watching americans play the sport on the biggest stage. that's not the case this year. you kind of feel like we have finally come into our own, and we've got a team that belongs on the big stage. >> in the past, there are moments where i would watch the group stage where the round of 16, the u.s. team, through my hands, just absolutely abject, particularly defensively. it was never clear what the tactical plan was or if they didn't have the players to execute it. this time it's clear that they have a plan and they have the players to execute it. the midfield in particular is extraordinary. it's a funny thing to say about

a team that scored two goals in the world cup. they're fun, dynamic, always moving. and greg burhalter, a coach i had doubts about has laid out pretty clear tactical master classes in the first three games. i can't believe i'm saying this but i'm confident with the u.s. playing the dutch. >> can i ask a question, so what has changed over the years for u.s. soccer that the u.s. team has come to this moment? how has this changed over the decade, for example? >> it used to be we'd have maybe one player that would play on a top team in europe, now suddenly you're calling out one of the best players from chelsea, one of the best players from leads, one of the best players. >> you have a generation of guys who have gone over and joined the most elite european soccer academies at a very young age, and so there's -- they're

tutored at how to play at the highest level. they play in the champions league week in and week out, so they have proven themselves already in europe. >> we can play more on the competitive level. we have more guys that are playing against the best in the world and they know how to move. they see the lanes. one of the biggest problems is, oh, you have 320 million people, every star, it seems that you hear about, tyler adams, and i remember hearing the same thing about clint dempsey. he woke up, he had to drive four hours to an academy here, and four hours back every day. our guys still have to go far too far, you know, to get training. the great ones are in, you know, rural parts of the country, and they have to drive. >> american youth soccer, much of american youth sports is a total racket. it's run for profit by people who don't have necessarily the best interest of the game at heart. and so that's something they

think. >> we got to go. really quickly, u.s. win, did they have a shot. >> they definitely have a shot. holland is one of the royalty. they have a storied coach. they have van dyke. >> amazing. >> alex, what do you think? >> i think the u.s. wins 2-1. i think this is not the dutch team. >> he's very clear. >> yeah. >> he's decisive. >> looking good. but it's the only proven goal scorer on this team right now. >> you know what, the converted has a certain tenacity. i love it. >> this bodes well for the future of soccer in the u.s. with this u.s. team. >> it does. women's soccer too. >> and the new republic's alex shepherd, "new york times" washington bureau elizabeth bumiller, we'll see you all again soon in washington, and still ahead former president obama on the campaign trail in georgia explaining why it is not

time for the party to rest with four days until the runoff election. plus, we'll be joined by house majority whip jim clyburn after the south carolina democrat secured another leadership role in the next congress. "morning joe" will be right back. congress "morning joe" will be right back

70s wasn't tired. i got no excuses, i can't be tired. and if i'm not tired, you can't be tired. if the men and women who had to endure the stink of discrimination, the smack of belly clubs weren't tired. if the folks who had to fight the early fights.

those were the tough fights for union rights and voting rights and gay rights and women's rights, if they didn't get tired, you can't be tired. so you got to go out there and keep working. you have to stay focused. because if you do, if you put everything you've got into the next few days, if you vote, if you get your friend to vote, and your neighbors to vote, if you do all that, not only will we reelect rafael warnock, not only will we keep georgia and america on a path to a better future, but we will be setting an example for a 4-year-old right here and laying a foundation for him to build on and that 1-year-old over there, and i know i saw a 3-month-old here, they're watching right now to

see if we're going to get tired, and i'm going to tell them right now, we're not going to get tired. we're going to bring it on home. let's make this happen, georgia, i love you. god bless you. let's finish the job. >> all right. former president obama campaigning for senator rafael warnock yesterday in atlanta. welcome back to "morning joe." >> by the way, he was on fire yesterday. >> he was on fire. did you see the clip where he was talking about werewolves, he said, yeah, he's doing that great debate about whether you would be a werewolf or a vampire, i did that myself when i was 7. so joining us at the table here in washington is former chief of staff to the dccc, adrienne elrod, staff writer at the atlantic, anne applebaum joins us, former policy director for the mitt romney presidential campaign, lonnie chen, and u.s. national editor at the financial

times ed luce, and jonathan lemire is holding down the fort in new york just in case joe and i fall asleep. we're staying awake. we're doing it. four hours. >> we have been talking this morning about -- we don't usually talk about newt gingrich's columns, over the last six years, have been blindly pro trump and owning the libs. i don't know if you saw it or not, but yesterday he said, okay, this guy, he's accomplishing a lot of stuff with a very small majority. he's like eisenhower, he's like reagan, he beats his opponents by being underestimated and we have to change our approach or he's going to keep beating us. it was one of the only clear eyed views of joe biden that i have seen since biden's walk in the white house from democrats or republicans because they got it. newt got it right about biden.

he's been under estimated his entire life by republicans, by democrats. you know, listen, our friend david axle rod loves trashing joe biden. goes out of his way to trash joe biden. he does all the time. i like david. he's a friend of mine. it's nonstep. he has been trashing biden. i've heard from obama people, clinton people, oh, this guy is not up to being president of the united states, this guy is not up to this. i swear to god, it's just like reagan. everybody said reagan was stupid his entire life it seemed on the left and media, until he died, and suddenly, he always read and he would write on the plane. they're making the same mistake with biden. >> facts are facts, you look at the accomplishments of the administration, and you look at what happened in the midterm elections, the clearest articulation of the challenge that republicans face right now. the lack of an agenda, the lack of a real effort to speak about

what the alternative is. and it is in opposition to the president, but i don't think that's enough. and i think that's the challenge that they're seeing right now. and i do think it's the case that the president has accomplished a lot, notwithstanding the fact that the critique of him is that, you know, somehow he's a bumbling guy, and doesn't really get that much done. i think that image is probably very different from the reality of what's actually happening under the surface. >> by the way, what you just said is exactly what my mom said about eisenhower. they always made fun of eisenhower, he was a bumbler, and at the end of the day, he was an extraordinary president, and same thing with reagan, constantly, people making fun of how stupid reagan was, and he out witted them every time. >> i think in washington what is under rated is getting stuff. there's a different word you can use. getting stuff done, and at the end of the day, getting stuff

done is what should matter for the american people, and it's what does matter to the american people. i think we saw that in the election. >> and when i was coming of age was around the time of reagan's election in 1980. and you had all of these think tanks popping up, the heritage foundation, and a lot of others, and just ideas. i mean, they built a world view, whether you liked it or not, there was a world view. there was an approach. they had a theory of the case. and that's what drove the republican party from reagan's victory in '80 to the republicans taking over in '94. that's just completely gone away with donald trump. they didn't even have a platform in 2020. they still haven't come up with an alternative to health care. to obama care. 12 years later, it is a party void of ideas, which i guess allows a personality cult to

fill that void. >> you're absolutely right. one of the strange things about the conservative movement such as it is or was at the moment. you can see it trying to catch up to trump, justify trump or find a way to create a post ideology for trump. otherwise they can't explain it. most of what drives the conservative party or the conservative movement right now is what has been called angertainment television, getting people angry, making people mad, getting them to own the libs. that's not a policy. that's not a strategy. that doesn't tell you how to govern, and so, you know, people don't trust them to govern, no wonder. >> and it hasn't brought people to the polls as they thought it would. >> it gets some people angry, makes some people vote. it's not a useless strategy. doesn't seem to be a majority strategy. >> you know what we used to say, not other conservatives at the

table. what i used to say is while liberals were out marching in the streets, and screaming. we republicans were going to work. and we weren't paying attention to the noise. we weren't paying attention. we were just working and that's why we would win. everything has flipped. it is now the republican party that is trying to undermine institutions. this is trump wing, they constantly attack the u.s. military. turn on fox news and prime time. constantly attack. look at senators. constantly attacking the united states military, attacking the fbi. attacking the ciw. we would wine about the church commission for decades. republicans eviscerate military heroes who fought and got blown up in afghanistan and iraq, and talk about helicopters in afghanistan that are going to be used against american citizens here. they've lost their freaking

minds. and so now they speak to this dwindling crowd and what happens? the rest of the vote, people like my parents, when they were alive. i always said, my dad, like crazy never wins, my dad only voted republican, but he did not vote for crazy republicans. and these are the people who are either staying home, saying the hell with it, or voting for an independent or even voting for a democrat. i mean, because these people, they're talking to themselves now, and it is now joe biden that's figured out how to connect the independent voters, swing voters, people that actually win elections. >> i think, you know, with biden, it often strikes me that we overestimate the power of oratory, just how important it is. we in the media think of a ted sorenson kind of presidency as being the way -- excuse me.

>> noble. >> not poetic on the campaign trail, maybe prosaic when they govern, and biden is proof that most don't think about oratory. >> and so is trump. >> so is trump. >> john major underestimated a prime minister, not particularly articulate. again and again, we assume what we value is what voters listen to, and biden sounds authentic. fetterman came across as authentic, and obviously not soaring oratory, but so many people could identify with. i think that causes us routinely to under estimate. with regard to trump, you know, this is a horrible analogy, but you read about people with porn addiction and it gets harder and harder and harder to get the same kick ahocking. he can't replay 2016. >> and now you have him kind of

doubling down or continuing with the crazy with this kanye, nick fuentes visit, which, i think, i don't know, the porn addiction is a great analogy, actually, and some people are going to be like, you know, that's too much. that's too much. >> i mean, the republican jewish committee, you know, condemned west, condemned alex jones, condemned nick fuentes, but still hasn't condemned trump. >> are you serious? the guy who brought those two, what he calls the southern white house. >> and they went on alex jones and did full blown holocaust denial, and condemned alex jones, and these two reprehensible guests but not trump. they can't bring themselves to condemn trump. >> and that's why the party keeps losing, adrienne, they don't have ideas. they have a personality cult. they will not stand up to a man who lost for them in 2017, 2018,

2019, 2020, and 2022. you know, we're talking about newt getting it. but how many times do you have to lose and why do you have to be watching a giants cowboys game to figure out, wait a second, donald trump is really bad for the republican party. >> a win or a loss is a win or a loss, no matter if you lose by .5 percentage points or 10 percentage points, the republicans that are bad midterm this cycle. you know, look, i think something that anne was saying about, you know, getting some big hits on twitter or social media, i think republicans in washington oftentimes forget that most americans are not on twitter, not on social media. they want effective government. that's what we talked about in the 2022 midterms. kate bedingfield, now white house communications director constantly drilled that we are not going to win or lose this

campaign, we're not going to find out the issues that matter to the american people on twitter. we're just simply not going to. and that's exactly what you saw play out in 2022. in the midterms. i think oftentimes republicans think that somebody at least in washington think that a lot of the debates, whatever you call them are happening on social media. americans just want government to work for them, and that's exactly what we saw play out. >> and jonathan lemire, what works on twitter does not work in general elections. you know, ron desantis, shipping migrants to martha's vineyard, that's a made for twitter, own the libs moment. i guarantee if my parents were alive, they would say, what's he doing, why is he wasting tax dollars on that. there's got to be something better than that. and yet you see politicians,

following what anne said that are focussed and obsessed on twitter, and on social media. that's just not where, that's not where independent voters are. that's not where swing voters are. we're all in a very big bubble discussing politics. if we think that twitter. and you actually saw in the democratic, the first democratic debates way back in 2019. where you could tell that everybody but joe biden, again, talking points off twitter, and everybody but joe biden was afraid what would be said about them on twitter afterwards, and everybody but joe biden ended up losing. >> one of the theories of the case for the biden campaign is that twitter is not real life. they ignored it, they steadfastly refused to engage with it. they recognized that's not what voters wanted. they brought that ethos into the white house, and they have tried to make deals. sometimes as we discussed earlier with the rail strike,

sometimes even painful deals. it's about moving the ball forward. it's about getting things done. conversely on the other side of the party, the other side of the aisle, the republicans seem to be talking to a smaller and smaller group. an echo chamber unable to expand. so online or regurgitating the talking points echoed by fox prime time opinion hosts, and it's hard for that to even penetrate to your average american who has no idea what they're talking about and frankly doesn't care. and to be in bed with connecting to the events of the last few weeks with kanye west and nick fuentes who have been emboldened on social media, though kanye finally kicked off now, off twitter, it is just this hateful speech that is surely turning off ten times the amount of voters that it would attract. >> and also add to this, the economy. there's so many different positive pieces of news. i'm not saying, you know, the

u.s. economy is out of the woods. there are a lot of things globally that could impact it and turn the tide, there are key indicators headed in the right direction. again, another sort of positive glow around this president. >> well, the economy is a challenge, and presidents always get credit and they get attacked. >> credit they don't deserve. >> credit they don't deserve and attacks they don't deserve. so you think about what is the single biggest concern we have about the economy is probably what's happening in china. and supply chains going into christmas, and is consumption going to be where it usually is, where it probably is coming out challenge.d of we don't know, right? we don't know, who knows what's going to happen in china. who knows how many people have covid in china, who knows what's going on there. these are the kinds of things that administrations worry about. >> and the war in ukraine as well. >> the war in ukraine, obviously

the economy impact of that is beyond biden's control. although, the fact that biden has so competently made his points there, that he has been supporting the ukrainians, that he's been clear also that the sanctions are not directed at ordinary russians. they're not even directed at ordinary people around the world. they're focused on stopping the war. i mean, i think his rhetoric about it has shown that he's in charge of that situation even if, you know, if the economic side effects are unpredictable. >> and ed, you talked about this in the financial times. speaking softly serves america surprisingly well. teddy roosevelt suggested the u.s. should speak softly and carry a big stick. what stuck out was the first half of roosevelt's stick, since it was so at odds with the character of a nation, then aimed to remake the world in its image, the unintended impact of putin's assault on ukraine is to

bring out america at its pragmatic best. though biden would be wise to avoid the infamous phrase, leading by behind, that is what they are doing. america has played the role of chief quaprovider and diplomatic cheer leader. though in practice, the u.s. will have a decisive say, and you are right, it's sort of been the invisible hand, but there's no doubt from the weapons to something that i don't think we talk enough about, the training, host 2014, those ukrainian fight ergs. >> -- fighters, they're fighting the way americans fight wars, not the way russians fight wars. they got great training. and even conservatives are now saying biden has handled this war exceptionally well. it's been a beautiful moment for

me that i actually believe in bipartisanship. it's been beautiful to see mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer shoulder to shoulder along with joe biden. this has been -- i think this has been america at its best. >> interesting and, i'll say you were talking about newt gingrich, he gave biden an a grade on handling ukraine. the point i'm trying to make is this wasn't in biden's plan. he wanted to pivot to asia, focus on china, had that summit in geneva with putin where he bent over backwards to call russia a great power. this was a few months after biden became president and a few months before putin invaded. this was not in the planned confrontation with russia. russia then, putin, misinterpreted the withdrawal from afghanistan as a sign of collapsing american resolve thought that he'd get the same

response. >> can i just ask, i'm just curious. it's not like we weren't all saying in america that biden had been wanting to get out of afghanistan since 2009. i understand how it looked in the media, i'm just always shocked that countries still misinterpret the united states events. how many people are dead today, world leaders, dictators that have underestimated the united states, saying oh, they're so divided. they'll never be able to -- how many people have called us a paper tiger. and ended up dead in the ground. i'm just -- i don't mean to be blunt about it. but it's getting so boring. >> and i think that -- >> to just keep doing it. >> it is getting boring and repetitive. i think the lesson from ukraine is that leading from behind is not a good phrase. >> it's more of the invisible hand. >> it's more of an invisible hand, and it's coordinating, and

it's actually extremely effective leadership, whatever you call it. but this wasn't in the plan. america's pragmatic response to the situation, very consistent, very quiet sense of resolve is not the swagger that you associated with post 9/11. it's not the catastrophe we associate with vietnam. this is america responding, rather than initiating. responding to he or she it willties, and that's the america the world really likes. i was just in bucharest in romania for the nato foreign ministers summit. this is an america that was unrecognizable to me, the turns in which leaders and others were talking about america, unrecognizable to me in the post iraq war years, the sort of sense of cynicism about the cowboy swaggering america that would go in and shoot first and ask questions later. this is not a shoot first ask questions later america.

this is a very consistently quietly resolute, pragmatic and effective america. it's a very different model, ukraine, to the iraq situation and others. >> and dare i say it, oh, my god, experience matters. in the age of populism, experience matters. i slept better at night knowing that joe biden and president xi had a long running relationship and knew each other when they were both number twos. and, you know, so i knew that they had that relationship just like biden had a relationship with afghanistan that made him decide very unpopular decision, this place is never going to get fixed, and we've got to pull the rip cord at one point or another. >> speaking to members of the french delegation last night, they were so impressed with his range on the issues in discussions behind the scenes

about ukraine. they were just blown away by the experience and the knowledge that he brings to the table. didn't leave to other people. >> which, they were, the french delegation was talking about this. very interesting, just like george w. bush. george w. bush, his people would do a press conference and say something really stupid, and walk off stage and say to his staff, boy i really screwed that up. and people would meet him one on one, and go oh, my god, he's so much better one on one in person. that's what we're hearing from the french delegation, you watch him on tv and you're not sure. they were really surprised by his command of all of the issues and very sharp, very positive, very direct back and forth engagement last night or during the day. it was very positive, but yeah,

again, going to biden always being under estimated. >> yeah, that's right. i mean, you know, of course, joe, he was the chair of the senate foreign relations committee for aong time in the senate. and turns out that experience matters. he has these deep relationships, as you mentioned. president xi, other foreign leaders, world leaders who maybe were the number twos and number threes at that point, they're now the number ones, and those deep relationships matter. they're not always driving headlines every day. not always something that you, you know, are reading about in your local newspaper. when it comes to america's stability in the world, our global leadership and our presence, they do matter, and i think you guys saw it last night firsthand speaking to members of the french delegation saying my goodness, we're so glad that somebody like joe biden, competent, effective leader, deep foreign policy experience is sitting in the white house instead of his predecessor. >> and let's talk about the europeans, too, because i've got to say, we certainly are so glad

that this has been a bipartisan effort, but i know in the first weeks of the war it was wonderful hearing how so many european countries, obviously the french stepping up, but germany and other european countries really stepping up saying we have to do more than we've done in the past. this requires us to spend more on defense. this requires us to do more than just sit back and wait for the united states to help us out. talk about the transformation. >> that's absolutely true. >> and still shoulder to shoulder with us. >> it's true that inside almost every european country, there is some kind of divide. their pro putin parties, the russians have been spending money on campaigns, and on, you know, buying politicians for years and years, so there is some conflict about it. overall, we have been very lucky that we have a cohort of european leaders who understood immediately that when you see tanks driving across field in

ukraine, fields in ukraine, it's funny, it's one of the things that i knew was going to happen before the war started, people were saying, what will the germans do, how will they react? you know, once the germans saw it, once they understood what was happening, what was at stake, they changed their policy, and germany had, you know, they've got a name for it the zeingenda, shift in policy, spending more on defense. they are thinking about changing the way their army works. they aren't 100% there yet, and the ukrainians are frustrated by them not giving tanks and other pieces of weaponry, and sometimes their rhetoric isn't the way that everybody would like to hear it, but they have made a mental shift. the british have made the shift. the french have made the shift as you probably heard last night, and people are beginning to understand that russia is not some kind of normal player on the world stage, but it's actually a country that

threatens them, and they're willing to now be very much a part of the nato alliance. >> and lonnie, it looks like, sound like we're starting to move into a new phase. we heard yesterday joe biden saying that talks with obviously between putin and zelenskyy and us were a possibility. and there was talk last night among a lot of people that this war in the winter months is going to move from world war ii to world war i, and everybody's going to be sort of stuck in the ice, stuck in the mud, and this is going to be indiscriminate killing along the lines with little movement. and the suggestion that maybe now may not be the time to negotiate for peace, but come february, march, it may be time to start negotiating. and is already vetoing that idea. >> really?

>> but it does seem, does it not, that we may be headed this in that direction? >> the awful realities of the . i think the reality is what this demonstrates is the importance of quiet progress in foreign policy. foreign policy is not always made in the "new york times," it's not made in the public. itst made in the little overtures, the interactions between individuals. over the next several months that's what's going to have to happen to bring this to a revolution. this is not going to be a splashy detente, where we wake up one morning and it's done. the next couple of months are going to be really hard. i do unfortunately foresee a fair amount of human suffering, and that's unfortunate. all brought by the decisions made by vladimir putin, and let's not forget the culpability for this, and where the culpability sits. >> since you were saying no to negotiations, what's the end

game? >> it's too early to talk about negotiations. if you really want the war to end, to be over, it won't start again, the russians won't rearm and attack again next spring, the russians have to experience a sense of loss. they have to understand that the war was a mistake. >> haven't they lost 150,000 troops? >> they have. i think we need to get to the point where the ukrainians have taken back at the very least the territory occupied by february. then we can begin to negotiate. obviously the war will end with negotiation and i want it to be sooner than later. if we talk too early, we risk a cease fire that's nothing but a pause, allowing the russians to regroup, and rearm, and buy more weapons from iran. we need to wait until we get to the next page. >> anne applebaum, lanhee chen, ed luce.

>> can i ask quickly about england. >> set a goal on sunday. >> feeling good? >> i've lost faith in predicting england because it depends which side of the bed they get out of. one morning, they can be a good team, and another against the u.s., not to down play how well the u.s. is. >> sounds like you are. >> did very well, and i was in a bout with a lot of american military, watching the great satan play iran on tuesday night in bucharest. that was quite an experience. >> wow, that's cool. >> england, wales, there was no tension, but u.s., iran, that was a game. more on president obama's rally in georgia last night, including his remarks about the importance of expanding democrats' majority to 51 seats instead of 50. also, what republican governor brian kemp is saying about his support for herschel

walker and a potential white house run in 2024. plus, there's a new effort to change the presidential primary schedule ahead of 2024. iowa currently holds the first in the nation caucus, but the white house wants to change that. >> what that means is it's going to be changed. michigan, michigan, michigan. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. 're watchin joe. we'll be right back.

in 3 seconds, this couple will share a perfect moment. oh, wow. but we got to sell our houses. well, almost perfect. don't worry. just sell directly to opendoor. close in a matter of days. get your free offer at opendoor.com welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at fort lauderdale this morning as the sun comes up over the east coast. more than 1.1 million ballots have already been cast ahead of

next week's closely watched georgia senate runoff. here's more from president obama's rally with democratic incumbent rafael warnock last night in atlanta. >> i don't mind giving credit where credit is due. herschel walker was an amazing athlete, an amazing football player. created a lot of energy at the university of georgia. he was an amazing running back. and come next tuesday, we're going to send him running back to texas. >> some folks are asking, well, if democrats already have control of the senate, why does this matter? what's the difference between 50 and 51? the answer is a lot. an extra senator gives democrats more breathing room on important

bills. it prevents one person from holding up everything. and it also puts us in a better position a couple of years from now when you've got another election but the senate map is going to be tilted in the favor of republicans. but you know what, there's one more reason. and it's the biggest reason. 51 is better than 50 because it means reverend warnock will keep representing you in washington. that's the best reason. that's the number one reason. he was wondering if i was going to get to that. come on, reverend, you know i got your back. joining us now from marietta, georgia, is nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard, and you spoke with governor

brian kemp about this senate runoff and his own political future. what did you hear? >> reporter: yeah, look, i mean, brian kemp is sort of this unique american political figure right now. he is the one statewide republican around the country who stood up to donald trump in the aftermath of the 2020 election, and then went on to roundly win a trump-backed competitive primary in which he beat david perdue by 52 percentage points back in may, and then he went and roundly defeated stacey abrams by 8 percentage points. something is working for brian kemp here in the state of georgia just two years after he voted for democratic u.s. senators and voted for joe biden. so i sat down with brian kemp, why, in large part he's trying to play the role of savior for herschel walker here. the two did not campaign for each other leading up to the general election, now, instead of donald trump coming on the

campaign trail for herschel walker, it's brian kemp, and there's a television ad around the state of georgia that brian kemp is making the case that herschel walker should be a republican partner up on capitol hill that he can work with. but then that naturally turns to the conversation of to what extent should he be a voice. brian kemp for the republican party of the future, and could that mean a potential 2024 run for himself against the likes of donald trump. take a listen to part of our conversation. >> are you considering running for president in 2024? >> i'm focused on the next five days of getting herschel walker elected to the united states senate and having a normal christmas with my family. we have been through a tremendous amount over the last four years. i'm not focused on 2024. >> there is one man, a former president of the united states who has announced a run for president of the united states, so i think for good reason here, the country is looking at what is the future of this republican party, and you are the one here standing with herschel walker, not donald trump. >> i would tell people that for

the good of the country, they should stay focused on this run off and not worry about 2024 like i'm doing. >> just to set the record straight, you're not ruling out your own 2024 run. >> i have not thought about 2024. >> i find that hard to believe, but i'll take you at your word. >> it ended in chuckles as the governor walked out of the office. i think i tried five, six, maybe seven times here, but the big question is what republican is going to ever decide to take on donald trump, and brian kemp has shown a willingness to resist the man, but could this potentially mean something even larger? we'll have to see. for now, he wants the focus to be on herschel walker, and you know, you got four days left. i told him we would be back next week to ask him again. >> nbc's vaughn hillyard keeping at it, thank you very much for being on this morning. let's bring in msnbc host, symone sanders townsend, she has a new special streaming on peacock, focusing on the georgia

senate runoff. and former spokesman for the house oversight committee, kurt bardella, now a strategist for the dnc and dccc, good to have you both with us this morning. >> you look at everything that has happened over the past month, and you would think this is senator warnock's race to lose. >> you would think. >> you would think. but the polls are still very very close. what's your best read on georgia? >> i think we're seeing democrats really taking run at the early vote in this special that's airing on peacock, airing through december 6th. i talked to republican strategist, brian robinson, and we had a conversation why republicans have not made a play for early votes. these are the blue counties turning out. republicans are going to turn out on election day. it's not necessarily sure. there are counties like green, republicans are showing up.

less pop list counties, cobb county, a democratic stronghold, which went blue in 2016, and has been trending blue since then. i think this is a turnout game. that's why you saw president obama there on thursday. today is the last day of early vote in georgia. there is no early vote on saturday. there's no sunday vote and the next opportunity people have street is on election day after today. i think democrats are, they are concerned enough to spend real money in this state, more millions and millions of dollars have poured into this runoff election. you've got organizations like the new georgia project action fund, who have been knocking on millions of doors across the state. they're trying to pull out. and the numbers we should be watching for the people that vote in the runoff but did not vote in the general election. there's a large swath of individuals and predominantly younger black folks. >> kurt, it's interesting, democrats have had a year that

exceeded expectations. if republicans can win in georgia, and say we easily won the governor's race, we kicked out an incumbent, really changes the way things look over the next couple of years as far as a swing state. whereas democrats win in georgia. and they pick up one in the senate, means they have done well in the new swing state of georgia. they did great in arizona in the major races. did extraordinarily well in michigan, took over legislatures in, what, minnesota, and i think pennsylvania, they have a great story to tell, but they kind of need to win georgia to keep that momentum going, right? >> that's the thing. momentum is the word here, and like in sports, when you are on a winning streak, continuing that streak is the most effective thing you can do to

get your agenda forward. the last thing we need for democrats, to now give them a win of any kind. we have them on the ropes. they are on the defensive. they spent the last few days talking about things from defending white supremacy, and trying to denounce naziism, and they want to change the conversation so desperately, the only way that can happen is if they get a victory. >> you talk about in the "l.a. times" how it's groundhog day for the republicans again. we have been talking about newt gingrich's piece all morning. it's fascinating. he has moved beyond sort of defend trump at all costs, now saying joe biden is beating us. he's beating us at every turn. he's an eisenhower figure. he's a reaganesque figure, underestimate him at your own risk. because this guy is going to keep beating you. i thought it was fascinating. and it sounds like for gingrich

who's now saying enough of all the cultural issues, maybe we get back to the basics of conservatism, budgets, taxes, regulations. >> what republicans stand for. >> it's quite a shift. >> used to. >> it's taken too long, but he's one of the few republicans in this trumpist wing that's now saying enough, we're just going to keep losing. >> it's something to finally see a republican, yeah, i'm tired of losing, and understanding the root causes and the reasons for why they are losing. that's part of what i write about in the l.a. times, the rnc just ordered this autopsy again, you know, you could just dust off the one -- >> it's not that hard. >> the autopsy back in 2013. >> i had nothing to do with that. they ignored it anyway, what's the point, a million dollars down the drain. >> the question i have is do you think that this ye or what is his name kanye west, fuentes thing, do you think that this is

sort of like circling the bottom of the toilet like maybe it will all go down at some point? for people, for trump supporters in areas that have many trump supporters, you know, i mean, is that just too much for them? too weird? too disturbing? >> i don't see in the observable evidence to the contrary that folks are, you know, wanting to move off of him. >> in your gut, when you saw that, and then you see kanye on info wars, defending hitler. >> but it was consistent. it's part of a consistent narrative. i go back to what i have said before, all of this for me, all of the performative part of this when you have some dinner with a nazi. and my question is, okay, so what does the leadership have to say, joe? you were in the house, what do you think the leadership in '94

would have said about the head of the party, the president, former president, having dinner with nazis? >> all we have to do is see what they did, who's the iowa congressman who they stripped of his party, king. >> steve king. >> that wasn't so long ago. >> this goes back to the question, though, to your original answer that, oh, i haven't seen the evidence. the reason the leadership has not rebutted former president trump is the grass roots, the voters still seem to be with him in many respects. i think that's something we need to contend with. a million people voted for the election denier in arizona. >> again, back to your original question, winning georgia for democrats, putting another nail in a coffin of one of donald trump's hand picked candidates is important, and keeping that momentum, and keeping that story line going and giving it life. listen, when you look at the democrat run that we have had now, a lot of that started with the special election win last time down in january of 2021. doing that again, and starting

the near with another win here, momentum. >> and the interesting thing. >> that's the one thing i want to point out too. one of the most important parts going forward, at the committee level, having 51 gives us more members on that dias. those committees are going to be vital in helping push back against the avalanche of republican-led investigations. we're going to need to show while the house is doing their kangaroo court, senate democrats with control of congress can do something too. >> you know, republicans have been so obsessed with owning the libs and they think they own the libs by nominating donald trump or voting for donald trump. they just don't understand that all they're doing is electing the libs and democrats. all they're doing is turning off swing voters.

you're right. we shouldn't be talking about leaders in washington but the base that still want to vote for the loser. still wants to vote for the guy that made them lose in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022. if they think for a second the biden white house is going, oh no, we'll have to run against donald trump. oh my god! that's their dream. run against donald trump in 2022. >> so damaged. >> biden's walking to another four years. >> look. we certainly remember in 2016 they said he is our guy. he is the party's nominee. and going to lean into him. we'll become like donald trump and create a maga wing of the party which have expanding. now it is doing what we thought it would do.

the pendulum is swinging back and republicans were going to regret leaning in to trump because now they are stuck and can't live with him and can't live without him. they need the base to within some crazy primaries an ento have a shot in an election but not enough. they won't get the independents. >> they are not. diminishing. >> how do you break the infection? how do they break this infection? in order for you to heal you must want to heal. you must want to improve from the condition you are in. the question for the party and those that remain inside -- i have two friends who are former party members, who sort of create that path. the question is how do we begin

this process? >> it is unfixable. you're a perfect example. >> we have to get a break soon. >> talking about governor sometime ago. people pressuring you to run in maryland. you said the base just isn't there. they could have gotten you and would have been a close race. instead they pick a clown and lose by 30 points? >> yes. >> keep making those self defeating decisions. >> yep. >> no. they do. i get all of that but the question then becomes -- look. you goat a door and either is locked or go in the room. right now that door is locked. does it ever open again? what does the party look like and the future going to be? does it go away? and something else replace it? if that's the case what is that? >> we need more republicans like

michael steele. i think we need two strong political parties and how do you break the fever? people need to stand up to what is right against what is wrong and when you have republicans who are dancing around a dinner with someone who's spewing anti-semitic and we are at the bottom. >> hitler -- >> the hitler comments were -- even for the people defending kanye west. they're not there for that. i want to say this point. we talk about annuity gingrich says leave the culture wars alone. that's the playbook for the republican party apparatus for a long time. that's been the playbook. republicans are not running an economic plan in this midterm plan. herschel walker is not running

on the economy in georgia. >> not running away from the narrative on crt or transgender narrative because it does the thing they need to have done and that is the animated spa us to get that base out. and the problem is -- >> they lose. >> they do. >> look at. 2012 primary, richard murdoch,ed to akin. 2022. look at what happened with oz. look at arizona. what probably will happen in georgia. it's been ten years having this conversation about electing lunatics in primaries that lose very winnable races. claire mccaskill doesn't win if they don't put up -- it's not a glitch. it's a feature. they're not changing.

>> thank you very much for being on this morning. great to have you. coming up on "morning joe," democrats campaigned on protecting democracy so how are americans feeling about the issue now weeks after election day? we will have the latest polling on that. also ahead, south carolina congressman james clyburn joins us. he is assistant leader in the next congress. >> barnacle is there. doesn't look worse for wear. >> a bad night at the white house. >> his wife pushed him over in the east room. >> we'll have that, as well. also, what's going on in the trump organization? fraud trial as that case is going to the jury. we'll be right back. so, you're 45. that's the perfect age to see some old friends, explore new worlds, and to start screening for colon cancer. yep. with colon cancer rising in adults under 50,

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welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at the white house.

it is the top of the third hour of "morning joe" on this friday. >> when did you leave last night? >> are you okay? i need to know. >> your wife pushed you over. >> major altercation at the white house last night. i turned around. seriously, i heard this huge thing. mike barnacle is on his back. >> on the ground. >> literally. >> down goes frazier. >> i ran to try to save him. a lot of people -- >> there's the culprit, ann. bank of america's. >> well -- >> pushed you over. >> do you want to come to probate court with me? >> he looks beaten up. will you be okay? >> that remains to be seen. >> we had a great time. >> still in negotiating phase right now. >> otherwise you all were very elegant. >> she made an offer.

it's not enough. >> he will be okay. >> representing him? >> ann's fault. >> going for public humiliation. >> it's incredible. hit the ground. bounced right back up. >> he was like -- >> leaning over i guess to fix the shoe and the christmas shoe. >> mike was not watching and paying attention. >> i was wearing shoes. i haven't worn shoes in about four years. >> blaming it on the shoes now. that's an admission. >> he told me not to say anything. >> joining the conversation is national reporter for "the washington post." good to have you back on the show. and congressman james clyburn of south carolina! just elected assistant

democratic leader in the next congress. it's great to have you all with us. >> thank you very much. >> congratulations. >> thank you. >> you would be -- i have to say i love a good challenge. i really do. you would be the last person i would ever run against. the guy who elects presidents. >> you just go do that. >> kingmaker. >> we like david. who would challenge you? >> not smart. >> i don't know. he said he wanted an issue to be discussed and brought to the table and i think we'll discuss the issue. >> what issue? what issue? >> oh lgbtq community. >> okay. >> and -- >> all right. >> i think is a legitimate thing. i'm the guy that put together the matthew shepard issue and -- >> you did, yeah.

>> speaker pelosi brought a separate issue forward. brought his mother to the capitol and we did it. i guess this is a reward you get. >> okay. >> as my mother would say all the time -- no good deed goes unpunished. >> exactly. >> we saw nancy last night. >> so beautiful. >> the speaker. what's it going to be like? a house without nancy pelosi running it? >> she will be giving sage advice on occasion. they've had discussions and jeffries said he is comfortable with her looking over his shoulder. she is most consequential speaker i think of all time. i think having her there will be

great. >> it is hard. biden wents with small margins and you have to go back, maybe back to sam rayburn the find a speaker able to do more than nancy pelosi. >> oh, maybe further than that. >> she is historic. >> what she managed to accomplish in two terms as speaker is incredible. especially the last two years. the total package of accomplishments. were talking about this before. historic. in this political environment it is historic. an item we talked about is kevin mccarthy was there last night with his mother. splendid, wonderful woman. he looked like he would rather

be having a root canal than be there. within the house of representatives how do you go forward when the other side, the majority side, the republicans lead with rage and anger almost every day? >> it's a little tough. i had hoped after this election which i thought was very definitive that the other side would see the value of trying to come to the middle, trying to find common ground. i talked with steve scalise last night and always gotten along well. >> steve was there talking to speaker, everybody. very warm and engaging, yeah. >> kevin and i talk every now and then but i think he has a certain posture around certain people in order to maintain

credibility. i think though that if you're going to lead you have to lead. you can't just be pushed or pulled but have to get out front and lead. right now i don't know that he is going what's required to lead. >> you got to be able to talk with -- i was considered one of the most conservative guys in 94 congress. >> i don't know how i got along with you. >> i talked to democrats. go straight to the democratic side. it is amazing when you talk to the other side you get things done that you want to get done. right? i don't understand this us against them stuff and i never have. >> sitting on the democratic side. a congressman from massachusetts two years before he found out joe was a republican.

>> by the way, i had a 95% acu rating. one of the most conservative people there. every day you work to build alliances with people on the other party because sometimes they help you out. i love what you said about ted kennedy and orrin hatch. if somebody came to kennedy and needed something fixed that he couldn't do as a liberal from massachusetts, i can't help you out, but orrin can. let me give him a call and align you guys and he can help you out. actually things got done. >> absolutely. i take credit for heritage corridor. it was orrin hatch that got that done for me. i went to him and i told him what it meant and he says, give me a couple days and we got it. >> so great. >> jonathan, we have been

talking this morning about joe biden getting things done. progressives early on said he shouldn't talk to republicans and try to make deals with republicans. you look at the bipartisan legislation which has passed and the piece of legislation of marriage equality. something that no one would have imagined passing ten years ago with progressives in the white house pushing back on joe biden recognizing marriage equality. but the vote got, what, 61 votes? look at the bipartisan legislation that happened and go wait a second, this guy said he can make washington work again. he is getting legislation done. they kept the railways open yesterday. he knows how to count votes and

get things done. >> there have been days biden accused by democrats of being out of step talking about working across the aisle with republicans. there have been a number of real bipartisan triumphs. we know we had also the bipartisan infrastructure deal which just now the into place country. the president himself and the white house have now struck a balancing act where they do try to work across the aisle when they can. they are embrace the idea of calling out republican extremism. but they also take a look and can do the math and the republican margin is sonar row

in the house the democrats feel like they will have a hard time getting things done and can get bipartisan legislation through. >> you talk about republican governors understanding the importance of working with both sides. a republican governor in massachusetts leaving office. a republican governor in maryland leaving office with a 70% approval rating. republican governor in vermont 70% approval rating. a republican governor in new hampshire that refused to come to the senate not wanting to get in the middle of the ideological wars. a 70% plus approval rating. not a single republican can get to congress because they are still reading off donald trump's

playbook. a fascinating thing that came out yesterday in the pomp and circumstance of the french president being here is joe biden saying he will talk to vladimir putin. not now but he will talk to him. sort of got a sense last night talking to leaders that they say not now but the possibility of maybe starting to negotiate for peace. >> with conditions. >> quite a few conditions. he said -- he started the answer by saying let me think about this carefully. he said if vladimir putin shows a serious willingness to make concessions, he has always said nothing about ukraine without ukraine. if president zelenskyy doesn't want to come to the table they won't force them but he said if vladimir putin under kates a

seriousness and a willingness to make concessions to cede territory back to the ukrainians he said he would speak to him. i don't know if it's several months or a year from now. vladimir putin escalated the war and bombing civilian infrastructure. in the middle of a difficult winter. >> going to be brutal. >> every time russians leave a territory there's evidence of war crimes. >> just the impact on both countries. the russians have lost up to 150,000 troops. killed or wounded. ukrainians as much or more. we're going into conditions that people are telling us, we are moving from a world war ii battlefield to a world war i

battlefield. things will only get more gruesome. >> if it's possible. >> i think there's a little bit of anticipation to slow down a little bit in the winter with the muddy season in ukraine making it more difficult to move but the ukrainians have shown no sign of wanting to give up. they kept up the resolve i think longer than people anticipated. i think even saw macron who people have been worried about pushing ukraine for concessions say yesterday it's totally valid for zelenskyy to say the conditions are not met for negotiations. we won't do anything if ukraine is not ready. he put to bed the concerns i thought yesterday. >> president biden is expected to meet with the prince of wales today in boston.

the white house and british officials are finalizing the details. the royal couple arrived in boston to announce the winners of the effort shot prize. joining us now from boston is the british ambassador to the united states, karen pierce. it is really good to have you on the show. what can we expect when the two leaders meet today in boston? >> i think there might be some jokes about football, about soccer. fundamentally prince william and the president share a very deep commitment to tackling climate change. i think the prince will want to brief the president on the earth shot prides. i think the president will tell the prince about the climate work. the prince was very impressed by what's in the inflation reduction act and i think having

a good conversation about that and other world affairs including ukraine. they have met before. the prince met the president at the queen's funeral and met in cornwall and the meeting in scotland. >> ambassador pierce, the other evening the prince and his wife attended a boston celtics basketball game. do you have any reports -- that's a raucous crowd there. any reports, were either hospitalized briefly after? >> did they survive the garden? >> although this is largely an official visit the prince and princess did enjoy that game. they were sitting on the bench. they were able talk some to the players and ask about the rules.

they stayed longer than was in the official program. they did enjoy it and i think that's obvious from the graphs. they really liked meeting people from all walks of life. they had a great program yesterday on climate and also people who work with disadvantaged young people in the community but they really enjoyed the celtics game. >> nice. >> madame ambassador, jayson tatum said he tried to put on a show for the royals there. to a more serious note want your take on what we heard yesterday at the white house from both president biden and french president macron about the war in ukraine and this idea of potentially talking to russian president vladimir putin. the united states president said some conditions would have to be part of that. nato allies would have to sign on to the conversation. is that something you think nato

allies like the one you represent would be into? >> i think a thing that characterized the western approach is transatlantic unity and held up far longer than mr. putin thought it would and than some skeptical people in the media thought it would. what you saw yesterday from president biden and president macron is an example of that unity. we the uk talk to the u.s., france all the time about the way ahead and you will have seen nato foreign ministers meeting in romania pledge to support ukraine for as long as it takes. that's the twin approach. we are open but we support ukraine and supply ukraine with defensive equipment. >> all right.

we will be watching the meeting between the president and the prince. thank you for being on the show this morning. >> a thing we didn't discuss was the president macron's concerns about the inflation reduction act. any word about how that got hammered out yesterday? >> when macron landed before the pomp and circumstance of yesterday he was really quite critical and unusual saying it could fracture the west and worried about the impact on europe and the chips act to curb china's influence and then does impact europe and then in the press conference struck a conciliatory tone saying the u.s. is looking out for the u.s. and europe needs to look out for europe. we will work this out.

there's a separate task force between the u.s. and the european union to try to resolve this. president biden said the u.s. makes no apologies. there's no sort of tangible outcome of the meetings but did seem at least publicly committed to find resolution. what that looks like is unclear but worked out in a separate task force. >> something europeans have been doing for quite sometime. >> this is an interesting and very important meeting between the two men. one thing about the president, we were talking about him earlier, the president is around this international track many, many, many times. and he is aware of the fact that this theater of war on stage that's been sadly too used to

war. they have lived with war over 100 years. since 1918. now the president comes to this war knowing that the opponent vladimir putin, that he has troops who need two things. they need munitions and they need the will to fight. they do not have the will to fight but this president, president biden knows that while the ukrainians need munitions they have the will to fight and he also -- this is something we talked about earlier. people underestimate how tough joe biden is. >> absolutely. >> don't you think? >> absolutely. i think that if you watched the way he worked his legislative program going back to the rescue plan, coming down through the infrastructure bill, chips and

science, inflation reduction, nothing has been close to this since 1965. nothing. and though i was not a member of congress in 1965 i was around. >> the white house is pronouncing major changes to the nominating schedule including doing away with the iowa caucuses altogether. sources confirm to nbc news that president biden has asked democratic national committee changes to shake up the calendar to enhance the influence of nonwhite voters. in the current format the iowa caucuses kick things off followed by new hampshire, nevada and south carolina but calls for south carolina to start with new hampshire and nevada on the same day and then michigan. iowa see the caucuses replaced

with a traditional primary. >> we were in new hampshire next to joe biden crushed in iowa, crushed in new hampshire. everybody declared the candidacy over. wrote an op-ed in "the washington post" saying let me get this straight. we're letting white woke voters decide the nominee? we won't give black voters a say? the base of the most loyal important base of the democratic party? it was always bizarre for iowa and new hampshire to be first. you endorse him. off to the races. you are from south carolina so it is self serving. doesn't this make sense to start

with a group of voters that reflect the diversity of the democratic party? >> absolutely. try out the messages in a way that won't cost them too much. not just as we usually think black versus white or brown. it is about the people of south carolina that you know. manufacturing. the mid lands with the institutions. you can come into the state and look back on the history of it. the person that's won the south carolina primary has gone on to win with one exception the general election. that's on both sides of coin. george w. bush out of it getting

south carolina. won south carolina and became president of the united states. it is the best laboratory. i would say to my friends in new hampshire as well as iowa, let's do what's best for the party. let's do what we can to deliver the best candidate. if we were to do that i think it would allow president biden once again understanding this so well, this is the way he thinks will serve our party best. >> yeah. michael, iowa had its time. we loved going to iowa. java joe's. >> no, we didn't. >> michael steele. >> we love iowa. at the same time the time passed. the last two caucuses were such a mess. you didn't know who won the things. >> it's been around 50 years in

this prime position. >> elected jimmy carter. >> set itself off to the races. i was charged by the 2008 convention to looking at the 2012 primary process and working with then chairman of the dnc tim kaine. we brought nevada to the table. we had iowa, new hampshire and south carolina. added nevada to balance. the democrats leading on this transformative opportunity in the primary system which i am on the record should be abolished. did a disservice to the political process because it plays to the edges. not to the country. it is very narrowly focused and not fixed in law or constitution and can be changed. second important point i think

is that it gives, a thing i articulated which i was resoundly defeated on, is to open the process so it's a rotating system. if you don't like south carolina first your state goes first in the next cycle. got to be ways to look to bring more voters to the primary process instead of having the nominee selected by 20% of the base. >> i will speak for the congressman. south carolina's first. we at this table are dead set against any rotating scheme to only confuse voters. south carolina today. south carolina tomorrow. south carolina forever. >> absolutely! >> do the show there. >> we start every primary season

off now. >> that's exactly right. come on down. >> my mouth is watering already. congressman jim clyburn, thank you. >> thank you. >> jasmine, thank you for coming on. come back soon. mikecl watch yourself. i don't know if you'll be invited back to the white house. >> can i respond to that? >> yes. you can. he'll be back. >> he advised me not to say anything more. >> zip it. >> strong case. still ahead on "morning joe," another loss of donald trump. a federal appeals court dismisses the special master review of. we will have the latest on the legal fight. the senate avoiding a major railroad shutdown. how things played out in kronk and what happens next.

also this hour jim pasons with a look at his latest movie "spoiler alert." after a long week of telling people how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. showtime. whoo! i'm on fire tonight. (limu squawks) yes! limu, you're a natural. we're not counting that. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

well, we fell in love through gaming. only pay for what you need. but now the internet lags and it throws the whole thing off. when did you first discover this lag? i signed us up for t-mobile home internet. ugh! but, we found other interests. i guess we have. [both] finch! let's go! oh yeah! it's not the same. what could you do to solve the problem? we could get xfinity? that's actually super adult of you to suggest. i can't wait to squad up. i love it when you talk nerdy to me. guy, guys, guys, we're still in session. and i don't know what the heck you're talking about. xfinity rewards is a program whose sole purpose is to say thank you with experiences big, small, and once in a lifetime. sometimes it's about cheering hard enough to shake the stadium. let's go! -haha, woo! sometimes it's as simple as movie night right here at home, on us. you mean the world to us.

so we're bringing you closer to what you love. kinda like this- welcome to 30 rock! join xfinity rewards for free on the xfinity app today. our thanks. your rewards. we have another -- major -- we have another major legal loss for former president trump. this stings for a district court judge in florida who made a fool of hirs. >> yes. a judge's order awarding a special master should be dismissed. the ruling made by a three-judge panel of the court of appeals

lift it is restrictions on the justice department's examination of records and allows investigators to proceed with the probe more quickly. we all were surprised by that decision. >> insane decision. >> the panel stated that u.s. district judge's order to apoint a special master retrieved with a search warrant from mar-a-lago was incorrect. in september the judge a trump appointee selected judge deary to review the materials from mar-a-lago. >> call him a skeptic. >> after the trump team said they couldn't trust the filter team at the doj. the three-judge panel with two judges appointed donald trump stated the ruling to take effect

in seven days barring intervention by the supreme court. >> donald trump could appeal. a couple things. as you know i revere the rule of law. i don't like speaking ill of any federal judges because i'm not there. it is like a jury. here this is obvious from the beginning, from legal scholars on the left and right this woman was being a political hack for donald trump. making a fool of herself. had no basis in law for anything she was doing. once again the rule of law holds. what a validation. then the 11th circuit which is conservative and no nonsense and shot her down. the supreme court will as well. >> he doesn't have a snowball's chance in supreme court. he lost the personal cases at

the supreme court essentially. this judge is an exception. that's the point to remember. there was a lot of suggestion to go to the trump appointees. this decision never had a chance based on a legal complaint by trump that bill barr said was a crock of -- i won't use the word. the decision is worse because it went further than trump did. you mentioned two judges were appointed by trump. one is a great jump from alabama appointed by george w. bush, a name that donald trump floated to choose from. this was just an opinion just

brutal. eviscerated her. basically said three choices. follow the law. the second is to make a rule that basically says that every drug dealer who has stuff found in the basement can delay or a sperm rule for ex-presidents. that was the end of it. >> can trump delay this by appealing? what's the timeline? >> just going to be the timeline of the justice department. it was already controlled by the justice department. he lost on a stay application with three earlier judges in a different panel dominated by republicans. basically what the restrictions placed on the justice department already lifted. >> isn't it amazing, elizabeth, in my opinion. you just say it any way you want

but so many losses from donald trump legally have come from republican judges. >> everything. >> republican judges. republican supervisors of elections. republican secretary of states. republican governors. listen. i have so many problems with my former party. i think we should draw a deep breath and say, wait a second. a very conservative supreme court said no time to trump time and time again. a conservative 11th circuit. the judge in florida will probably be responsible for -- there have been republicans that held the line for democracy. >> this is just another loss for trump. we can go on about the

republican candidates of his that lost. the investigations are heating up. especially at the justice department. and then all the republican officials now denouncing him. his republican party is shrinking and shrinking. we had a piece by peter baker about the trump republican party is going to the far right extreme and a sense to get momentum going into 2024 is to reach out to the intense, tiny anti-semitic cases in many places. he sent a supportive video to the -- january 6. so he is now in the most extreme

corner of the republican party. going live to new york courthouse where jurors will soon decide if donald trump's family business is guilty of fraud. an update on the closing arguments straight ahead on "morning joe." when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis persists... put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when uc got unpredictable,... i got rapid symptom relief with rinvoq. check. when uc held me back... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc got the upper hand... rinvoq helped visibly repair the colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief. lasting, steroid-free remission. and a chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check. check. and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred.

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xfinity customers, on us. so you get more of the speed you need for day and night streaming. more speed you need when you're work from homeing. and more speed you need as your family keeps growing. check in on your current speed through the xfinity app today. last night talking about switching gears quickly. really not. we are all talking about washington. from washington football to state dinner to the rail strike. a lot of talk last night, chatter how the white house and capitol hill averted disaster yesterday getting that deal done. >> and even got republican

support. we saw bernie sanders and ted cruz exchange a fist bump which i think -- >> dogs and cats living together. >> that right there makes my eyes hurt. >> we'll take it. >> we'll take it. >> another example of what annuity gingrich was saying about joe biden's ability while criticized for style and his not so artful way of speaking, the way he is able to navigate the situations that i think if there's potentially a republican majority in the house and the senate would cause some sort of meltdown. >> the big issue was paid sick leave. they didn't get exactly everything they wanted. >> i think it opens up a potentially national conversation for this going forward. >> i think that's the plan.

from people that i have spoken to it is not over. they averted disaster yesterday but the issues are not met. >> if you are a worker you cannot get paid time off for a doctor's appointment and why you had progressives and republicans voting against it. opposed to it on both sides. >> you are right. i think something that every american agrees. they deserve that and need that. >> still a win for joe biden. gingrich's point. averted into the holiday christmas season. averted something to disrupt supply chain and create a lot of hardship for families across the

country. >> jonathan, this guy knows how to win even when it hurts and hurts him. there's union representation last night at the state dinner. that's his base and went against his base. when you are around long enough people trust you to make things right. here's another example of how he said he can make things work and pass legislation, work with both sides. people skeptical on the right. the media skeptical of that. you have democrats and progressives saying the hell with the republicans. don't deal with the republicans. this guy kept the head down and he keeps his -- gingrich said winning while republicans lose. >> the president spoke about this yesterday at the news

conference ahead of the dinner. he knows that these are his people and base. a train guy but a union guy and the white house prided itself on being pro labor in generations. there is a sense to jackie's point that may have opened up a national conversation. there were good things for workers, too. the president talked about paid sick leave should happen. wouldn't let perfect being the enemy of good. aides tell me he agonized over this and recognized it needs to be done because the economic impact of a strike as the nation still grapples with supply chain issues and inflation would be too devastated. he had to make that call even though he wasn't that happy about it. >> have to get to 60 in the senate. he couldn't.

so you know, could have shut down a good chunk of the economy or taken the deal and did what the responsible presidents will do. coming up, speaking about the democrats' change in leadership. what she says the new generation brings to the party and the country. that's next on "morning joe." in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention.

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♪♪ >> okay. you can come out now. >> tah-dah! our very first christmas tree decorated by yours truly. >> aha. yes. it's a lot of tinsel. >> there's tinsel there, yes. >> and i see a smurf or two. >> there are some smurfs. >> and an entire solar system. >> that's a pretty star. you hate it. come here.

get down here. >> what are we doing? >> get under the tree. >> is this part of the decorating of the tree? is this part of tradition? >> every year when i was young i would lay under the tree for hours listening to my parents moving around, getting everything ready for the holidays. what? what? >> your love of christmas is -- >> inspiring? >> yeah. let's call it inspiring. >> that's what i thought you were going to say. >> that was a scene from "spoiler alert," a new movie produced by and starring jim parsons based on a memoir of the same name, "spoiler alert" tells the love story of journalist michael and his husband, kit, who tragically passed away from cancer in 2015. the four-time emmy award winner joins us now. jim, welcome to the show. it's great to have you on. >> it's very nice to be here. >> i can't wait to talk about "spoiler alert." but i want to first talk about

your personal connection to this. you were connected to this story before even the book came out. >> yeah. the author, michael, asked me to go to barnes & noble with him and i said sure, that's great. a few weeks later i read the book with my husband, todd, and he watched me and watched me sob through it. he said do you think it would be a good movie? i said i don't know. he read it and he said i think it would. he accosted michael at the q&a and said we'd like to option this to make a film of it if possible. >> right then and there. amazing. >> it was a little awkward but it worked, so thank you. >> the question you didn't know the answer, did it make a good movie. tell us about the movie and what compelled you to drive forward with this project. >> yeah. the movie, it's's very funny. it did make a beautiful movie and it was a beautiful process in making it because the

privilege of walking through the shoes of this intense and traumatic journey these two guys went on together really helped me see the ways -- i responded to this in the book, but i felt it as we did it the ways in which going through this really difficult thing together opened their eyes to all the ways in which they had to love fearlessly, love fearlessly. it took away so much of the b.s. that covered so many aspects of their lives. and they learned to love in a better and fuller way, live in a better and fuller way than they would have ever known without going through this. >> i want to talk about how they changed and had different approaches to their love in just a moment. but first let's, you know, make it very clear, this is base on a true story. >> yes. >> a true life experience. >> yes. >> i'm going to show another scene from the movie. >> okay. >> frustration boils over as michael pleads with doctors to treat his husband's cancer. take a look.

>> we've promised a bed. >> all the beds are occupied. >> i don't care if you have to drive to ikea or general convertibles, get my husband a bed! >> okay, sir. okay. we'll find your husband a bed. >> thank you. >> well, that was oscar worthy. >> if it weren't for shirley maclaine. >> i wonder what are some of the messages you hope viewers will take away from this movie. >> oh, there are a lot, and, you know, i think there's so many things people could take in their own personal life from it. again, i would go back to what came so clearly to me through it was just that the way your eyes can open when you're faced with the loss of somebody that you

love so deeply and the clarity that can bring, not just about your love for them but your love for yourself and the bravery it takes to risk having your heart broken in order to live your life as fully as you intend to, as your god intended you to as it were. you know, it's a tragedy with a major silver lining that the gift of being able to see the ways in which maybe you're not living your life as fully as possible. and perhaps it will provide people a little of that view without having to go through their own tragedy. that would be nice it's really kind of a life-affirming, love-affirming tale of what it is to be human and to allow other humans to love you and to love you back. >> the movie goes through ups and downs, love and loss of a gay couple, something we don't see enough of. >> right. >> tell us why that's important

to you, what you think viewer will get from this. >> for me, and i didn't realize this until we were making it, but i was being allowed to act in scenes with another actor that were in some ways similar to the movies i had grown up loving and connecting to. and as a gay person. and i saw straight people doing this and i was very moved by it, but there was part of me that never really believed i would be able to act in the same kind of scenes as a gay person. and the way we're able to show such a full world view of this gay couple, it's not rose colored, it shows their full ups and downs, and i don't even just mean the tragedy, just a long-term relationship and the things that go on in there. >> yeah. >> it was so gratifying to do and it feels so special to get to send that out to the world. >> the final months of kit's

life, mike took to social media. >> yes. >> that is another area where their relationship and everything they were going through was able to help a lot of people and opened a lot of eyes. >> yes. it did. and he obviously -- i believe that was the impetus to where a book editor asked him if he would like to put this in book form because it was affecting so many people, so the book expands upon all of that. yeah. you know, the social media thing, after i became attached to this, i knew michael, obviously, from being interviewed by him and him asking me to do q&a. it was a little eerie and side in a way the way life goes to look back at all these photos i had taken with him that i had no idea this was going on in his life. that tale that you never know what's going on with somebody else completely, you don't know what's going on behind the scenes that may be forming their

day. that was interesting. not part of the movie, but part of my experience with him. >> it's a human experience. >> yes. >> you never know what the pain is that people are going through. jim parsons, thank you so much. >> thank you, mika. >> great to have you on. >> good to see you. >> "spoiler alert" is playing in select theaters and will be out nationwide next friday. up next, good news for the workforce is bad news on wall street. the markets are tanking following a better-than-expected jobs report. stephanie ruhle explains why that's the case. plus, lawmakers want to add $45 billion to president biden's defense budget, but some republicans are threatening to block it. we'll get more insight on the bill from u.s. navy veteran and member of the house armed services committee, mikie sherrill joinings us. and president biden will

deliver remarks and sign a resolution averting a rail strike. we'll have live coverage. if your business kept on employees through the pandemic, innovation refunds could qualify it for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee, even if you got ppp. and all it takes is eight minutes to find out. then we'll work with you to fill out your forms and submit the application. that easy. innovation refunds has helped businesses like yours claim over $1 billion in payroll tax refunds. but it's only available for a limited time. go to innovationrefunds.com to learn more. ♪♪