all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to 60% a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. >> thanks for watching the katie phang show. i will be back next saturday and sunday at 7 am eastern. you can also catch original episodes of the katie phang show on the msnbc hub on peacock every thursday and friday. velshi starts right now. >> today on velshi, why we can't look away from the spectacle of a twice impeached ex president who is now openly calling for the termination of the constitution while actively campaigning for office again.

i will talk to the first openly gay member ever elected to the united states senate about the historic passage of the respect for marriage act, and more. senator tammy baldwin of wisconsin joined through later on the show, in record numbers of georgia voters, turning out to vote early in the u.s. senate runoff race between senator raphael warnock and herschel walker, including tens of thousands who did not vote in the midterm elections. we will dig into what is driving this record turnout and what to expect on election day on tuesday. then, what is happening to twitter under elon musk? the rise of hate speech on the platform and what is at stake, if it surrenders to extremists. velshi starts now. good morning. it is sunday, december 4th. i am ali velshi. around noon on january 20th, every four years, the newly elected president stands before the chief justice of the supreme court, at the front of the united states capitol. he places his left hand on the bible, and recites the presidential oath of office.

quote, i do solemnly swear but i will faithfully execute the office of president of the united states, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the united states. article two, section one of the constitution mandates that every president must take that oath upon taking office, including donald j trump, who recites it during his inauguration in 2017. but less than two weeks after having dinner at his home with an antisemite and a racist white nationalist holocaust denier, the twice impeached ex president, whose lies inspired a mob of his supporters to attack the capital, in order to overturn the outcome of an election that he lost, is now suggesting that quote, all rules, regulations and articles, including those in the constitution should be terminated. that is a quote from trump's latest post untruth social, his own deceptively named social media platform. unsurprisingly, his suggestion to terminate the constitution

is his latest attempt to get reinstated into office, after losing the election, more than two years ago. he continues to lie about that election, to falsely claim that it was stolen from him. but no matter how loud or often he lies, the facts have never supported any of his or his supporters claims. and after a disastrous start to his 2024 presidential campaign, suspending the constitution might be the only way that trump can become president again. his divisive politics has often vile behavior, makes it nearly impossible for him to appeal to americans beyond his strong but rabid fan base. that is why the past three election cycles have been so disappointing for the republican party. he has even tried to violate the constitution once before, with that violent coup, but fortunately failed on january six, and even's attempt to get election denying loyalists elected to secretary of state, in this year's midterms fell short. donald trump has spent years testing the limits of our

democracy. but fortunately, ineptitude, safeguards and some well-placed good people have prevented him from succeeding and convicting complete control of the american government and dismantling democracy. but it is not like he ever had any respect or understanding of the constitution. as president, he once claimed that the constitution gave him quote, the right to do whatever i want, and quote. he has frequently exhibited contempt for the freedom of the press, he calls coverage he does not like fake news. he spent years repeatedly attacking the media as an institution, as well as individual journalists, directly. a number of democrats were quick to criticize donald trump 's post, including the white house which issued a statement that said, the american constitution is a sacrosanct document that for over 200 years has guaranteed that freedom and the rule of law prevail in our great country. the constitution brings the american people together -- regardless of party -- and elected leaders swear to uphold it. it is the ultimate monument to

all of the americans who have given their lives to defeat self serving despots that abused their power and trampled on fundamental rights. attacking the constitution and all that it stands for is anathema to the soul of our nation, and should be universally condemned. you cannot only love america when you win. end quote. the leaders of the republican party, the party that is often so quick to invoke and defend the first and second amendment of the constitution, any chance they get are yet to weigh in. joining me now is ruth ben-ghiat, professor of history at new york university, and author of the elusive newsletter, which focuses on threats to democracy, and author of the book strongman -- -- from mussolini to the present. ruth ben-ghiat, good to see this morning. i will say, the reason why this is an important conversation this morning is because there are lots of people, possibly those watching us right now who say, i don't listen to donald trump, i don't care about what he says, i don't pay attention to him, he is off the rails. but you can't not pay attention

to a former president of the united states running for president of the united states who is now actually called for ignoring the constitution of the united states. this is kind of how it ends? >> well, absolutely. you know, donald trump has multiple lows right now. he is subject to multiple criminal and civil investigations. and part of the gop is turning away from him, which means donors are turning away from him. and this sets up a key dynamic for the strongman personality. the more they feel threatened and humiliated, the more that they go for the extremes. this is his attempt to say he is willing to burn it all down. because you know, we have been covering his dinner with nick fuentes, and he is not just a holocaust denier, he calls for dictatorship. and you know, trump's helper, michael flynn, another reason we need to pay attention.

remember that after the loss of the election, november, 2020, flynn called for the constitution to be suspended and martial law to be declared, so the election could be quote, rerun. flynn is still out there, having his reawaken american doctor nation tour. these people are not necessarily just fringe anymore. they are important people, with large followings. and that is a huge problem. >> you cite good examples of nick fuentes calling for a dictatorship, of michael flynn calling for the things he called for. but is there a line that gets crossed when donald trump actually posts that rules, regulations and articles, even those found in the constitution should be terminated, and he should be reinstated as the winner of the election, is that in line, when you are sworn to protect the constitution, and now you call for the constitution to be terminated? i don't mean legally, but in

your studies of dictators, where is that line? where do you go from being off of the rails to really dangerous because you have actually said the quiet part out loud? >> yes. in your set up, he said in the constitution, in his mind, it allows him to do anything he wants. this is someone with an autocratic personality. the irony is that a lot of actual dictators, including mussolini and hitler did not suspend or terminated the constitution, they kept it in place, in theory, or they found a workaround. like hitler passed the enabling act, so he could passed laws without parliamentary approval. and you know, pinochet read the constitution in 1980, they are still trying to revise it. but this is donald trump, signaling in theory he will stop at nothing to get back into power, and he will respect no laws, other than his own

power. so he is very frustrated right now. this is why he is dangerous, because he never cared about the gop, those kind of situations. he would be very happy to destroy everything that he feels has wrongs him, and he has the power to incite violence again. this is a red flag. >> to what degree, is what we know as gaslighting working? donald trump, as we said, as of the constitution, they say can do whatever he wants, using the same defense of mar-a-lago this, he could classify things, because he could take any documents he wants. maybe he believes this, maybe he just knows it is effective. but it seems to resonate with his base. he says it enough times and they believed it to be true, despite the fact there is actually a constitution, there are actually a body of law that says, that is just not imperatively true. the president is not free to do

whatever they want, nobody in this country is free to dismantle the constitution, which is why we saw some people, charged, convicted of seditious conspiracy this week because you can't actually do that. >> yes. i am glad you mentioned that, ali. because the secret, but not so secret appeal of authoritarianism, is someone with absolute power, and can get away with anything. so when donald trump, like all strong, then he has a proprietary notion of power, that is why he can take documents, very typical, they found he was storing highly classified documents in mar-a-lago, along with family photos and golf balls, they are all his. this mania of everything being his, and he could do anything he wants, he is omnipotent, that is what personality cults are for, they are for gaslighting, they are depicting the leader as a man more powerful than any other man. and that is very appealing, it

goes with this idea that, i can fix it, i will say if you. i so these have been mechanisms, psychological, political mechanisms which have worked for 100 years. and we can predict that he will be using that more and more now as his troubles grow. >> ruth, good to see you again, thank you for your analysis as always. ruth ben-ghiat, professor of history at nyu, author of the book strongman, from mussolini to the president, and author of lucid newsletter. i'm joined at the top of the hour by democratic senator tammy baldwin, a history making united states senator herself, who led the effort to protect marriage equality in the senate. plus, one may look no further than the war in ukraine to understand that the future of warfare is here. what does this mean for this particular war for the united states and the world? and election day in the georgia runoff, between rafael warnock and the interesting herschel walker is just a few days away, we talk more about where they stand, you are watching velshi on msnbc.

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the hotly watched senate runoff in georgia. but because of early voting, more than 1.8 million votes are already in. early vote turnout has been historic. georgia has broken two single day voting records in the last week. let us take a look at who has voted so far in this runoff, this list compiled by msnbc news and from target smart.

we have the breakdown by race. white voters make up nearly 55% of early voters. 32% of early voters are black. latinos and asian americans account for less than 2% of the total, each. let's look at the gender breakdown. 56% of the early vote has come from women, 44% from men in georgia, and of that early runoff vote, 92% came from in person voting, only 8% of early voting came in by mail. when you look at it by party, we see the democrats are outpacing republicans quite a bit. 52% to 39%, plus an additional 39% of the early vote came from people with other political affiliations. i should note historically, democrats vote early more often than republicans do. so this is entirely on trend. republican voters generally turn our big on election day. the last midterm election, we saw herschel walker got more election day votes than raphael warnock did. as the new york times point out,

going into november 8th, warnock was ahead by 255,000 votes, but walker won election day voters by nearly 220,000 votes. here is one stat we found particularly interesting. of the 1.8 million early voters in georgia, more than 76,000 of them say they did not participate in the 2022 general election last month, according to georgia votes.com, which is a sight that uses public data to analyze voting trends. joining me now is maya king, a politics reporter for the new york times. she is from florida, she covers politics from the south. she has been talking to voters in georgia which led her to write her latest piece titled, in georgia, a heated senate race stirs mixed emotions in black voters. maya, good morning to you. thank you for joining us. >> hello, good morning, ali. thank you for having me. >> i want to hone in on the 76,000 voters, in the grand scheme of 4 million ballots which will be cast or, more, it's not that big. but typically, fewer people vote in runoff elections because they don't have the same energy around them another

midterms do, or elections do. in some cases, more people are showing up to vote, that means something, i do not know what, what do you think? >> i see this as a reflection of the turnout, the get out the vote efforts that democrats and republicans have employed. we see on both sides, the casting of this race, in existential terms. even though control of the united states senate has already been decided, both democrats and republicans have put forth a message to their voters, which says, you need to get back out to the polls, to be a check on joe biden's legislative agenda in the senate, or to expand democrats role as a majority in the senate. it also cannot be discounted how different both of these candidates are. herschel walker of course is an untested candidate, has a lot of scandals in his background. and democrats have flooded the airwaves with that very message. i would not be surprised to see if those 76,000 voters, perhaps not all of them but a good chunk may have been receptive and say, i did not cast my

ballot in the general election, but i should go out of this time and make sure my voice is heard. >> you have done a lot of reporting on the different in style between rafael warnock and herschel walker. yesterday, raphael walker was at an event and he said this about herschel walker, let's take a listen. >> now, i am not mad that he does not know what he is talking about, i am mad that he doesn't know what he's talking about and things he ought to be a united states senator. he is running for senate, he's not just her uncle talking at the family reunion! georgia deserve a senator who actually knows what he is talking about! >> let's -- of course, that was raphael warnock talking about herschel walker, you've written about this. on one, hand this is a real show of a black power for black voters, two black candidates in a state where the system is designed to keep black people from winning with the runoff system. but a lot of black voters you spoke to said herschel walker's campaign has marred this moment which should be one of great pride for black people, a two

black men will run and one will definitely win. >> you know, black voters are very sophisticated in the way that they assess races. although this is a very historic race in terms of representation, having two black men running for federal office like the united states senate, it's often elusive to black candidates, the black voters that i and my colleagues spoke to said that does not really matter when you look at how different these candidates are, and the policies that both of them represent. black voters tend to be the base, the most loyal constituency in the democratic party, so it should not come as a huge surprise that black voters overwhelmingly support raphael warnock. but that is even more compounded by the fact that black voters who we spoke to told us that we feel like herschel walker represents conservative interests that run counter to anything that we would like to achieve. but even the things he says, the policies he claims to support would be more hurtful to black voters in georgia than

they would be helpful. it is just another example here of how black voters have assessed politics in the past. this is no longer a vote for history, again, it has been cast in terms of survival, and which candidate is going to do the best job in the united states senate, representing their interests and making sure that they have the things they need. by and large, the black voters we spoke to in many places across georgia, for this story, felt like that was senator warnock. >> that will be a compelling election to watch on tuesday night, and into wednesday morning. we will be covering it live. maya, thanks for that, fantastic reporting, maya king, a reporter for new york times. msnbc will have live, extensive coverage and analysis of the georgia senate runoff on tuesday night into wednesday morning. it will likely be a close race. if you go to sleep too early, you might miss the results! so stay up, tune in, we will be there to bring you the results. with each passing day of russia's brutal invasion of ukraine, it continues to be made clear we are seeing the future of warfare play out in

realtime. i will explain how, and why, unmanned drones, things many of us have, not the military kind, are being used to deadly effect on and off the battlefield. but is next, on velshi. but is next, on velshi kevin! kevin? oh nice. kevin, where are you... kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. i'm gonna cashback on a gingerbread house! oooh, it's got little people inside! and a snowglobe. oh, i wished i lived in there. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! that it is! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. ♪ did you know if you turn to cold with tide you can save up to $150 a year on your energy bill? how? the lower the temp, the lower your bill. tide cleans great in cold and saves money? i am so in. save $150 when you turn to cold with tide. nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like: i am so in. just stop.

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equipment right outside of kyiv. it was the first indication of massive logistical shortcomings, and strategic ineptitude, which have plagued russia throughout its invasion. but despite the world war i style trenches that mark the front in the eastern, in eastern ukraine, this is actually very much a modern or, a major technological turning point in the style of warfare, offering the glimpse of the battlefields of the future. more so than any other major battle before both ukraine and russia have been successfully using drones for both offensive and defensive purposes, using them not only for reconnaissance, which with you are familiar, but for active attacks. now joining me is the retired u.s. army major john spencer, chair of the urban warfare studies program at madison policy form, the coauthor of an important new book called understanding urban warfare. john, good to see you, thank you for being with us. let's talk about drones. my audience might know them about the kind used for

photography, you stick your phone in and take pictures, or we know them as surveillance things. airplane sized things, used for surveillance, sometimes, attack. we are talking about a whole new universe of drones in ukraine. these so-called switchblade drones which are very, very small. they can target an individual or a truck. there are big drones which carry ordinance. but they are being used in a way we have not seen before. >> yes, absolutely, ali. a defining character of the current wars around the world is this spectrum of drones, and the enabling functions they provide on the battlefield, whether you are in the defense or the offense, surprise, which sun said is the most important thing in war, like that 40-mile -long convoy. no surprise, anyone knew where it was coming from. all the other functions, to be able to attack, to put fear in your enemies soldiers, the

ability not to hide your key weapon systems, which we have seen. it's not just that the ukrainians use of western weapons but to find targets on the battlefield, so this, like urban warfare, the fact that any future battles, conflict will be fought in urban areas, for urban areas, the presence of drones from things we could buy at walmart, to the highest end tb ii drone that can destroy tanks, is the future. >> the drone you just mentioned is, it is a turkish made drones, become sort of popular culture in ukraine because of the effect of it. both sides are using drones right now. i guess when you talk about the fact that battles are fought in cities, something we learned obviously in iraq and battles since then, how do drones work on both the offensive side and defensive side? what is the way in which it works in a place where you think you can only infantry or

people you have them in the streets of the city to win it over? >> so of course you still need trained motivated soldiers to move forward and take urban terrain, to hold urban terrain. but this changes everything in the aspect of how you see the battlefield, whether it is close in front of you look around the street corner, or 40 miles away from you so you can't be surprised. but also, the ability of how to integrate fire into your plan to defend or attack, you can put precision fires, in places you could not ever do before, because of this omnipresent, all seeing eye, that you can put on the battlefield. by you i mean everybody from a civilian helping in the battle, to you know, you are version of the pentagon, to allocate strategic resources, even if you don't have this. that's what we saw in the beginning of the war ukraine, had some of the bayraktar, and

i brought back basically a bayraktar stuffed animal, to my kids, when i came back from kyiv. it is synonymous with their power to stop such as powerful military, that powerful military cannot hide. >> good to talk to you, we appreciate your expertise and your amazing new book. thank you for being with us this morning. retired army major john spencer is the chair of the urban warfare studies program at the madison policy form, the author of a great new book called urban warfare, understanding urban or fair. what was a cold, cold night in kyiv when the war began in february, it is cold there once again. and those bitter temperatures will only continue to drop. the weather is now playing into russia's strategy of trying to break the will of the ukrainian people, a strategy that is felt at this point, live on the ground in kyiv, that report is next. next and décor up to 50% off. plus get fast and free shipping on everything!

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arrived in ukraine between harsh, freezing temperatures and weeks of russian bombing their energy sources, leaving them without heat or light. ukrainians will face their most difficult winter since world war ii. now joining me is msnbc's barber, live in kyiv. alison, thank you for joining us. what is it like on the ground over there? we are seeing these images across the country, the ukrainians working hard to repair them. but it is bad? >> yes, this is an everyday situation for ukrainians. if it is not a massive blackout because of a large-scale missile strike, which we have seen happening here on energy infrastructure, at least since october. if it is not that, then the previous large-scale missile strikes on energy infrastructure has put such a strain on the electrical grid over here that civilians are dealing with just rolling, scheduled power outages. and it is not just uncomfortable, with temperatures like the ones we are experiencing here, with people living in homes that might have been damaged, particularly in the early days

and weeks of war. it is not just an uncomfortable situation, it is life-threatening for a lot of people. watch. >> in ukraine, winter is here. but so are the memories of last winter. when russian forces occupied this village, she was hit in her cramped basement. [speaking non-english] her daughter helped her escape. when she came back, the place she called home for more than 50 years was hardly livable. >> what was it like when you came back and saw your home, your neighborhood like this? [speaking non-english] [speaking non-english]

[speaking non-english] >> with the help of her daughter, she tried to rebuild, but she is 87 years old. she needed more help. the >> we have been through so much. >> and it is finally here. the united nations high commissioner for refugees is partnering with 17 non governmental organizations to try and help ukrainians survive the winter months. she is one recipient. there are thousands like her, wondering how, if they can survive the below freezing temperatures. >> we are really racing against the clock. >> she is the representative in ukraine. >> there are hundreds of thousands of people who have had their homes destroyed or damaged through this or. >> ukraine's ministry of energy tells abc news, russian airstrikes have damaged 50% of

the country's infrastructure as of this week. in addition to structural repairs, the un is providing basic supplies at distribution centers throughout the country. but >> the power just went out here, the only source of light. there is a line of people coming in, waiting to get supplies for winter. the people here, ngos, the un staff, they are still working to get it to people even though it is now dark. >> from shoes, blankets, to solar lights, two windows, tarps, to dry wall. it is difficult to quantify the level of need. but one thing is clear. every blackout, every snowfall, and another hurdle to surviving the war. these attacks on ukraine's energy >> infrastructure, they are not changing, not changing anything on the frontlines. in fact, since these have begun, we have seen russia lose ground in kherson in the east, in bakhmut, where there's been some of the fiercest battles,

they barely gained any territory at all. what this is doing is making life very difficult for ukrainian civilians, and you's ministry of defence said this is likely the first implementation of a concept that is in part of russian military doctrine in recent years, where the idea is that they go into what they consider enemy states, and target that nations critical national infrastructure rather than the military forces, hoping it will demoralize the population, and then force that states leader to capitulate to demands. it is making life very hard for ukrainians here. we spent a lot of time talking with people, one thing they tell us here is in some ways, they think it makes them stronger because it is forcing them to come together, to create warming centers and find ways to survive. ali? >> and they thought ukrainian spirit would be crushed in the first weeks of this war, which also started in winter, and that did not happen. you might be betting against something that will not happening, if not --

if you're trying to cross the soul of the ukrainian people. thank you for that great reporting, alison barber live in kyiv, ukraine. coming up next, new york's mail unveiling a new plan to call what he calls the city's mental health crisis, but it is a simple solution almost nobody believes will solve a very complex problem. complex problem. re. seriously? one up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains. any further questions? uh uh! one up the power of liquid with tide pods ultra oxi. (vo) businesses nationwide are switching to verizon business internet. (woman) it's a perfect fit for my small business. (vo) verizon has business internet solutions nationwide. (man) for our not-so-small business too. (vo) get internet that keeps your business ready for anything. from verizon. nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like: just stop. go for a run. go for 10 runs! run a marathon. instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette. we all have a purpose in life - a “why.”

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association. in it, it tells the story of two young, women college students in the midwest, who stood on a busy street corner for. hours staring at each other's up in a trance. there, was of course, no law gets people staring at each other but their bizarre behavior caused confuse spectators, who called the police and eventually took the two women atrocity for questioning. if you're the p police, stationed the two woman refused to speak and continue to start one another. a police were confused, i'm sure, about the situation. state law allows people to be held for psychiatric evaluation only if they were a danger to themselves or others. the woman's behavior was unusual but they did not appear to be dangerous or in danger, the police police to. them 30 hours later, i had suicide in the campus and one woman survived. the other died. dr. dared trafford, he makes the point to protect basic human freedoms. the psychiatrist points out that he created a legal climate

in which mentally ill patients and sometimes those around them are dying with their lights on. he was articulating the idea that as it pertains to the risks of mental illness, all lost focus too much on protecting the rights of an individual at the expense of their safety. there should be, he suggests, some have media between protecting somebody's basic freedoms and preserving their physical and mental well-being. when it comes to treating severely mentally ill patients, we as a society of never really gotten to that point. over the, years the civilian has contribute to the mental health crisis of homelessness, incarceration, drug addiction and other illnesses have gotten mistreated or undiagnosed. if you need a case study on the mental illness crisis, looking for the new york city, and in particular how it manifests in homelessness for the mentally ill. homelessness has been an issue in manhattan for decades. but it really became a visible problem in the 19 80s. many mayors have tried and failed to get it under control and now eric adams is giving it

a shot. he came out with a plan this week to involuntarily hospitalized mentally ill people on the street or in the subways, against their will. this comes from people who may be a danger to themselves but not necessarily to bother us and it puts the responsibility on police officers to determine if and when a person needs to be hospitalized. the social workers without the necessary training to deal with mental health emergencies. now, having police deal with mentally ill people is fraught. election database shows that 21% of deadly police shootings involving a person with a mental illness. police without proper training tend not to want or be well prepared for interactions with the mentally ill and mayor adams plan may institutionalize more people. whether that is a good thing or bad luck as a matter of perspective. ironically, one of the reasons we are in this position today in new york and many other major cities is because of a nationwide push to de-institutionalize mentally

ill patients. this started in the 1950s as it is celebrating the 19 80s as a result of public policy that drove severely mentally ill patients from hospitals and out into the community. it shuttered institutions across the country. when psychiatric hospitals close patients were discharged with nowhere to go. and more often than not the end of the police in the streets. two forces drove this movement. one, they hope the new antipsychotic medication could cure mental illness. the, second was to save money. in 1954 the fda approved the use of an anti psychotic drug that could to treat schizophrenia and bride polar disorder. it's led to the police that specialty inpatient psychiatric hospitals were no longer needed because patients could apparently be cured with a pill. we would not need the kind of intense around the clock supervised care that was provided by psychiatric of spittle's. almost ten years later, president john f. kennedy signed a law that replaced custodial mental institutions with community mental health

centers. allowing patients to live and receive care within their communities. it was, in fact, they last bill the jfk ever seen before being assassinated. a shift from patient to patient psychiatric care was expedited by the creation of medicaid in the 1965. a key part of that legislation was that the government would not pay for inpatient care at psychiatric institutions. this pushed yet more patients into a patient community mental health centers. except only half of those proposed centers were ever built and it did not provide enough funds to keep them open for long term. so instead of getting the care they needed, more mentally ill patients into the on the streets of major cities like los angeles and seattle and new york city. deinstitutionalization's was essentially the largest social experiments in american history an argument of its biggest failures. but it did prove one thing. that's a treating mental health is complicated. there was no one size fits all solution. mayor eric adams is trying so

far. people new yorkers become scared of the real and perceived violence for mentally ill people. but the real solution lies of things being done for illegal people, not to. them involuntarily off possible icing mentally ill homeless people is like a band-aid for something that needs surgery. mayor adams, for his part, has defied himself against criticism of the issue by arguing that he is determined to tackle the problem that others before him have punted off. some years back i volunteered with a program called the streets to home program operated manhattan for the center for community urban services. we went around new york city in the very early morning before the sun rose, working to identify and assist the long term homeless to get them out. almost all of our clients suffered for both addiction and mental illness and all had spent at least two years living on new york streets even in the frigid winters. i was a volunteer, but my colleagues were trained caseworkers. no law enforcement. we were the first line of offense from vulnerable people and we did not help any of them

but not enough. i don't have a solution here and i do not know what the right is. but rounding up mentally all people from the streets and throwing them into the system might just freak them out. this is not feeling a solution. it just feels like a vicious cycle. kevin? oh nice. kevin, where are you... kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. i'm gonna cashback on a gingerbread house! oooh, it's got little people inside! and a snowglobe. oh, i wished i lived in there. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! that it is! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. ♪ [sfx: stomach gurgling] it's nothing... sounds like something. ♪ when you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion, ♪ ♪ upset stomach, diarrhea. ♪ pepto bismol coats and soothes for fast relief... when you need it most. nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. pepto bismol coats and soo you get advice like:..

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about merrick adams controversial plan to it and

stop a mental health crisis in the city. he started police in first responders to remove those showing severe systems citizen mental illness from the city's streets, and take them to care. joining me -- is at the school social welfare. she's an expert on mental health crisis response. also with me is sonia cruz who has previously served as a captain for the montgomery county maryland police department. she's a founder of the black -- experience good morning to both of you and thank you for being with us. emily, let me start with you. this is a question, i try to identify in my introduction, and which i don't know what the answer is. and there are people who legitimately think that derek adams is trying to fix a problem. people are scared of mentally ill people in mentally hill people on the subways and the streets are often endangered themselves. people in the other side are saying this is not the underlying problem here. when we are dealing with a mental health crisis. when we dealing with here -- >> there is a problem that needs to be addressed. i just think that the approach

forcing more interactions between police and pieper with mental illness is not the answer. it could be very harmful on many levels. but we do have other approaches. so really it is addressing how do we engage people. how do we support people to get them into housing? certainly forcing more of these confrontations with police could be really harmful. >> captain brook i cannot imagine this with so many police officers are saying i'm looking for this. it is not the police officers cannot be trained to do this but generally in your state in maryland there are some advanced programs where they do trained police for interactions with mentally ill people. was places don't. >> that is correct. but what is most concerning to me is not the fact that the police are going to be interacting with people who are already at a disadvantage. that has been a common police scene. but is usually in these

situations if that person is a serious harm to themselves or others. what is really concerning for me right now is the greater objectification of a people. you come into contact with them, they are already perhaps in crisis. and the police officer, you are thinking, i have to do my job. it may not be seen as a human being, and considering things in that way. and then there is also the fourth amendment. taking away the rights of a people just to be a people in crisis, that is not against the law. and, so there are those concessions. and i -- think >> we have a bit of a problem with this in new york city, where there is an uproar about safety issues and then we have a mayor. in, this case the mayor is a former police officer who, says people have got to feel safe in the subways of new york and the streets of new york. so we've got to take. action as captain pruitt, said the two were not hand-in-hand. peoples rights into the care

for their mental health may not -- do not go hand-in-hand. what is a good solution look like? >> i think a good solution looks like this by expanding some of those resources. new york city has some programs doing outreach. alternative response models. if having outreach to build trust with people, and not coming in, basically, it would be people off the streets, and bringing them to emergency rooms that aren't prepared to address our needs, either. so i think it is a longer term, more involved and more complex approach that really could. work there is evidence from some of the alternative response models that they could be effective for addressing things with police. there is evidence on supporting housing programs, housing first approaches. so we know some things are to do work. so, expanding those programs really could have a better

impact. i also think you are kind of, the mayors approach kind of further exacerbates this perception that people with serious mental illness are all violent as there is a small percentage of people that may be violent during certain periods and there are certain things that if somebody is really experiencing crisis and they are feeling vulnerable and police close in on them, but could escalate into a problematic situation that did not need to happen. with a different approach. so again, i think it is a much more complex problem. and you don't think police or the answer to this. one thing >> they want, to captain pruitt, in new york like many major cities there are concerns about crime. whether real or perceived. you will get off the subway, i was doing the other day, and in front of every subway car there was a police officer posted. just as a show of force. if the police have to be the first on the fence in these instances because people call 9-1-1 when there was somebody on the train or somebody doing something that frightens them,

can we adequately trained police to handle this? in maryland we've seen some success in this, where police are trained to do -- you do not approach somebody who is suffering from mental illness, and exacerbate the situation. >> i like what professor watson just said about trust. and i feel like if you are going to have the approach, there should be some other training. i don't know if you can train or humanize someone. but that is what we need. we need for people to be able to trust the police. and for those people around house to be able to trust that the police are not just coming to criminalize them. i have heard the mayor say, no more destroy whatever you want. those days are over. that is not in gender trust. that causes division. it makes people think, okay, there is them in their's office. those people over here are

criminals because they will not get off the subway. they are just riding around all night. i think there needs to be a multi level approach and backup approach to talking about what it is like to be a human. charles wilson said something that i love. what did i have to operate with right now? an absence of empathy and understanding our -- and i think that is what is missing. we cannot just make this a policy to be criminalized people who do not have a place to stay. >> right. and by the way even if you do what the mayor suggests there is not enough psychiatric beds in the city and nobody wants more people in jail. so it is a complicated issue and i appreciate the -- nuance you bring to it. amy watson is a professor social work at the university of wisconsin. sonia pruitt is a retired police captain with the montgomery police department and a founder of the black police experience. don't go anywhere, straight ahead the democratic senator involvement of wisconsin helps us understand the latest in the

january six investigation. the passing of the respect for marriage act in the senate, and what she expects in the next congress. another hour of velshi begins right now. right now. and good, morning it is sunny summer fourth i am ali velshi. we are a month away from the beginning of the new congressional term, which could usher in a new era on capitol hill. house democrats are set to get fresh start in the new year but the younger generation is taking over leadership of the group on wednesday. new york congressman hakeem jeffries is being elected as the user marketed leader of the house. he will become the first black lawmaker to lead a caucus in either chamber of congress. succeeding and see pelosi, he was the first woman to become speaker of the house. massachusetts congresswoman -- clark will become the new democratic whip, and will represent pete ocular. -- we'll be taking over jeffries opposition is chairman of the democratic congress. republican, leadership however, is a little more uncertain at this point. the current house