involvement of wisconsin helps us understand the latest in the january six investigation. the passing of the respect for marriage act in the senate, and what she expects in the next congress. another hour of velshi begins right now. right now. and good, morning it is sunny summer fourth i am ali velshi. we are a month away from the beginning of the new congressional term, which could usher in a new era on capitol hill. house democrats are set to get fresh start in the new year but the younger generation is taking over leadership of the group on wednesday. new york congressman hakeem jeffries is being elected as the user marketed leader of the house. he will become the first black lawmaker to lead a caucus in either chamber of congress. succeeding and see pelosi, he was the first woman to become speaker of the house. massachusetts congresswoman -- clark will become the new democratic whip, and will represent pete ocular. -- we'll be taking over jeffries opposition is chairman of the democratic congress. republican, leadership however,

is a little more uncertain at this point. the current house minority leader, kevin mccarthy, was able to secure enough votes from his republican colleagues to win the nomination for house speaker. that is not the election. in order to make that official, he has to earn 218 votes. half of them pulling congress for the full house of representatives when it convenes next year. that might get, tricky because republicans only have a slim majority in the house. and factionalism is developing within the party. making it difficult for mccarthy to secure enough votes to become the speaker. that is just one of the loose threads that republicans will need to resolve in the coming months and right now the effect leader of their party is more of a liability than ever before. just a week after republicans face the disappointing outcome in this year's midterm elections, trump announced his candidacy for the 2024 presidential election. and the two and a half weeks since have been -- in that time the twice impeached insurrectionist likes president invited over in dined with kanye west who now goes by the name ye, and he has been

saying antisemitic comments. next to it was nick fuentes, a holocaust denier. trump is becoming the positionally in 2024 actually push to publicly that the constitution should be terminated. trump isn't his rhetoric as he remains the focus of ongoing criminal investigations that continue to close in on him. additionally, the house select committee investigating the january six insurrection is also expected to issue its final report in the coming days or weeks. sometime before christmas. it is expected to focus heavily on trump's central role in fomenting the insurrection. republicans are set to take over the house soon in january six committee is expected to be disbanded at the end of this year. that is only going to be the beginning of the investigation. or publicans have says that once they took control of the house, state create a committee that will scrutinize the work of the january six committee. they also expected to begin an

investigation of hunter biden. because his son, who has become a favorite target on the right. while there may be some rocky times ahead in congress in the past week it essentially proved to be productive. on tuesday, the senate passed the respect for marriage act. it is a landmark bill that is going to establish several protections for same-sex and interracial marriage with 12 republican senators who join democrats in passing the bill which will now go back to the house for final passage before president biden's task which where will certainly be signed. importantly the bill does not fully quantify the constitutional rights to marriage equality which was established by the supreme court in 2015. there is more on that distinction later in the show. that was not the only piece of legislation that received a bipartisan vote this week. congress passed a bill that would help the country avoid a major rail strike just weeks before christmas. which could have been devastating to the economy. we're not sure about that right now. the democratic senator baldwin of wisconsin is the first openly gay politician elected to the senate and was

instrumental in bringing together a bipartisan group of senators for the passage of the respect for marriage act. some of, they're good to see you again. always a pleasure to have you on the show. >> it is great to join you. >> in a sign of the times, you when i talk often and we rarely talk about the history making senator that you are. because often doesn't seem like a saying that there is an openly gay senator. but in fact this is one of those moments where your history is important to this discussion. because you were a leader of this legislation. >> we've got a bunch of republican votes in the senate which i don't know if you can get republican votes in the senate to agree to two days on sunday so how did this happen? why was there this relatively good consensus in the senate about this bill? ? >> it is interesting to see how opinions change and how that is reflected in the elections in that state. sonnets we know that since the u.s. supreme court decided the

case in obergefell v. hodges in 2015 that that was the marriage equality case that's public opinion on same-sex marriage has changed dramatically. today, over 70% of all americans and all wisconsinites favor protecting same-sex marriage. and i think that at this point in time there is not a u.s. senator who does not know someone who is in a same-sex marriage. whether that is a relative or a friend or somebody you go to church with or somebody on their staff. many of my colleagues have even attended celebrations of same-sex marriages. and so i think that changes the way they approach an issue like this. of course, this would not have come up as an issue as to the supreme court not made the decision to overturn roe versus wade nearly 50 years of

precedent. in the same sort of constitutional and legal theories that would have led to the reversal of obergefell and several other cases of fundamental rights. and so, the respect for marriage act firms of certainty that marriage quality will remain the law of the land even if the supreme court works to revisit the obergefell decision. >> which would be a great solution to the abortion conundrum because as you said, what would already for an support gay marriage they also support abortion rights. and yet that is not reflected in the, senate so the senate has involved a change in someone gave marriage, but can this work for abortion, or not? >> you know, hopefully we will get to a point where we can move forward in the states. i would say on the respect for marriage and replace many of the same challenges that the

reversal of roe v. wade poses and that is that it refers to the states. let me just explain that right now, 35 states in america either ban same marriage by virtue of the statute or constitution. wisconsin is a key example. in 2000 and, six the voters of my state voted to define marriage as a relationship between one man and one woman. if obergefell were to be overturned by the supreme court than the governance of these matters would fall to the states. but now that we have passed the respect for marriage act, what that does is says if you have a valid marriage license if you're the marriage that was valid, where entered and when, entered every state has to respect that. including a state like wisconsin. this is exactly the same sort

of way we are going to have to challenge and earn right back. which is to change the laws in the states. and that is going to be a cumbersome and long process. but one that is very important for us to do. >> this is going to be a commerce in the long process for you as well. but it has paid off and we are a little further ahead in our perfect union. senator, good to see you again. thank you so much for the work that we've done in advance in our democracy. democratic senator tammy of wisconsin. i'm joined now by jennifer reuben, writer for the washington post in msnbc political. analyst author of resistance. how woman take democracy from donald trump. i'm also msnbc political analyst. jennifer, good morning to. you we have no reason to have you on today about the comments you had written this week about a maga side of things. there's a link in the republican party.

, then donald trump owes to that thing yesterday about calling it suspending the constitution. it was worse than that. it was just ignoring the constitution. i sort of felt like that was a turning point for us. even for people who like to ignore donald, trump think he is off the rails, this is it more serious. >> it certainly is more. serious this is an abject, really, declaration. that the whole of 2020 was just the beginning. he has to do this again. he is incapable of overtaking the oval office which convinced one to uphold the constitution. and he now stands for something that is entirely outside the democracy constitutional system that we have. or not to see, now, whether republicans finally declare that he is unfit for office. and we will see the next few days i have my suspicions that the science is going to be deafening.

but what he tells the average voter, and what should tell republican donors. what it should tell republican activists is that this man can never be president and he is entirely unfit. if the republican party were for some reason to nominate him that he would be destroyed in the general election. now look inside what they are going to do. are they going to keep this person a position where he basically calls the tone for the entire party or they're going to finally shut him off the stage? listen i have my doubts they are gonna have the nerve to get rid of him. they haven't, today it. >> michael field made the point yesterday that went everybody -- when trump had dinner with ye and nick fuentes he came up with these generalized statements about how he hated white supremacist and it has no home has no place in the republican party. many say that donald trump has no home in the republican party. they did not name him because nobody ever wants to name donald trump was pretty by having dinner with --

and holocaust incentives and white supremacists and talking about not using the constitution or ignoring the constitution. or canceling the constitution. it is really bad. at what point is it enough? at one point is enough republicans to do what you say they need to do? >> it is such a great point. republicans tend to do one of three things went on from comes up with something like this. one, they pretend they never heard it so they go wow i never heard of the context of this. the second thing they do is describe it as unwise. like, it is a strategy. that is not a clever thing for people to do. somebody wants to be president should not be able to do that. and the, third as you say, is these general statements that simply acknowledge the underlying offense but without saying, and by the way somebody who says this is unfit to hold a position. i think two things are going on. one, the republican party at this point has its fingers crossed. that linda and jack smith and

phony willis, the prosecutor in fulton county, kind of release themselves of this problem. well and i think donald trump. and that means all. happen a second thing, i think, is that somebody is alone right. now their eyes on ron desantis. governor of florida. people can have shipped their allegiance. that remains to be seen, whether they will do that. the underlying problem here is that donald trump does not get the nomination, he can bring the party down. -- is a third party or he tells his people to stay home. the chickens are coming home to roost, this is what republicans get for not having impeachment. twice and for having taller than him so long. right, now they have a heck of a big problem. >> and not only is he prepared to bring the party down, but as somebody named dr. kay on twitter just reminded me, he didn't say ignore the constitution he said to terminate the constitution. which means he is prepared to bring the country down along

with the republican party. thank, you as, always for your insight. jennifer reuben is an opinion writer at the washington post. still ahead on velshi as i mentioned earlier, many members of the lgbtq+ community say they respect your marriage act does not go far enough. we'll go deeper on that with our misc colleague jonathan cuban in just a moment. plus, there are lots of dark corners of the internet filled with, hate racism, homophobia and antisemitism. and we are certainly one of. them especially in the era of elon musk. we'll talk about he means by free, speech when he misunderstood what the first amendment, and what is at stake if twitter is abandoned and is left to the extremists. also, major news out of iran, the notorious morality police have been disbanded after months of protests. that does not mean things are not getting. better will have the report on the inside. the all-electric 2023 chevy bolt euv. 247 miles of range on a full charge. america's most affordable ev. evs for everyone, everywhere.

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out of iran. what into reports from erroneous state media the attorney general this morning claims that the morality police's been disbanded. this comes after a monumental into government protests in iran which were initially and they back in september, when 22-year-old nasa amini died after being arrested by iran's morality police for allegedly failing to cover her hair, defying the strict dress codes for women. this takes place amid a massive an extremely violent crackdown. which is led to more than 15,000 arrests according to the

united nations. more than 400 deaths, according to iran human rights organizations. , additionally multiple protesters have been sentenced to death for the crimes, of quote, and if he against gone. and corruption owner. according to iranian state media. , when i told my good friend nbc's ali rosa reports to nbc from inside iran, he only left the country yesterday, he tells me that the situation in iran is coming apart. society collapsed with people chanting things like death to the dictator, every night. gun violence across the country. even before the report disband of the morality police, ali told me that the majority of when you see in the country have not been wearing head covers. and police were not enforcing. the even at the, airport normally a highly restricted place, when i first saw the morality police when i landed in around a few years ago, latest reports yesterday did about 70% of the woman in the airport were not wearing head coverings. nbc news forced correspondent

raf sanchez reports. what we've been hearing on the latest from around? >> it was our colleague ali rishi has been, reporting iran's infinite infamous morality police or disappeared in the last couple of years, release you to call and other major cities. what they've said is not a formal declaration. instead, the prosecutor general of iran was attending a religious conference, and was asked that conference, why have the morality police been shut down? and he did not take issue with the premise of that question. instead, he said about the morality police, the same institution that established it has now abolished it. we should be really clear. the prosecutor general is not in charge of the morality police and. ali, as you know, nothing in iran's final until iran's supreme leader, ayatollah khamenei, says it is. but this is a very significant moment. this is a very senior iranian

official, who appeared to say that the morality police have been abolished. and that times with the lived experience of iranians, women are walking around and gets her call right now without the job and we're couple of months ago they would have been instantly pounced on by the morality police, they say they are largely being left alone. also worth noting, the prosecutor general said the legislation that makes the job mandatory and iran is being reviewed by both the judiciary and the parliament. he said this is going to be a 15-day review, and we don't know what is going to come out of. it but ali as you were saying, the morality police have been the focus of so much public anger in iran over the last couple of weeks. it was, like morality police that stopped mass amini before her death. and it is possible that this slightly roundabout way of that the iranian regime appears to have made this announcement is there a way of making a

concession to the protesters, without appearing to make a concession. in the same with it and trying to the government appears to be one issue away from the zero covid policy. after the protests in the last ten days, but it will not acknowledge that they are giving into the demands of the protesters. like i, said not official. declaration we have not yet heard from the supreme leader of iran. but this does appear to be a very significant turning point in the islamic republic. after these months and months of protest. >> you make a very interesting, point it's hard to figure with this. is was this official statement? was it coming from the government. was it just. happening iran, they were seen, there does not appear to have any particular compliment. this is the night six appreciates. thanks for being on the. story raf sanchez in -- following the story very. closely up, next updates on the brutal war in ukraine. i will talk to a man who says he knows his country to be occupied by neighbor. country -- joins me after this.

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committed more than 19 billion dollars to ukraine since russia invaded back in february. despite consistent concerns that the incoming republican-led house of representatives will cut ukraine funding, the majority of lawmakers on both sides of the aisle and in both chambers are very much in favor of the united states helping to fund ukraine's defense. speaking of the white house alongside emmanuel macron has taken up somewhat controversial positions by continuing to try to engage in talks with vladimir putin amid his brutal invasion of ukraine. president biden reiterated the importance of that for ukraine. >> putin thinks that he can crush the will of all those who -- his imperial ambitions but attacking civilian infrastructure in ukraine unchoking often into europe, to drive up prices an exasperate food prices, that is hurting

very vulnerable people, not just in ukraine but around the world. and he's not going to succeed. he's paying a very heavy price and inflicting incredible carnage. in the civilian population of ukraine. bombing nurseries and hospitals and children's homes. it is sick. >> biden did say that he was open to meeting with putin in the near future to discuss ways of ending the invasion. an offer that russia has rejected by saying the talks can only start when the four territories in ukraine which putin claims are not part of russia, are internationally recognized as such. notably, russia does not control any of those four territories. luhansk, donetsk, zaporizhzhia and kherson. really not even close, as you can see. and it continues losing territory all of them with active frontline fighting still going on. joining me now, somebody is a lot of expertise. the former president of

estonia. a country which knows all too well the horrors coming from being occupied by its neighbor to. these, present is good to. see you thank you for turning us this morning. there is a lot going on, here and that is this blackmail that russia has. that these provinces of ukraine are ours. we have taken the territory, we have held referendum. it has showed that everybody supported joining. russia and until the arrest recognizes, we're not even talking. with the right thing to do here? the approach of engaging, russia or dividing -- of not recognizing where your territory for still another country? >> we have to understand that this action, they're not the first by russia, basically blows up the post-world war ii consensus that you did not have aggression. you cannot change borders -- this is what kept the peace

even during the cold war. what we have observed now in its most brutal form is an outright invasion. we've seen similar behavior already in 2014, with the annexation of crimea. which you see there on the map. before, that with the invasion of georgia in 2008. now, we have to understand that if we agree to changes in borders thanks to a war started by someone then we are back in the 1939. that looks pretty great, they're not season vaping poland. that is the first point. and in terms of the most recent proposal by president macron that the west provides security guarantees to to russia, i just wonder libra's. our y is not even an issue? putin himself has said that the

reason for the invasion has nothing to do with nato and largely with -- rather that ukrainians aren't ukrainians and if you look at the massive war crimes and atrocities that been committed then i find it's utterly bizarre that someone would say we have to take into account the concerns of the russians. ultimately, maybe. but first, we need reparations to rebuild the country that russia has destroyed and moreover we need to have all of the people who are responsible for what it really amounts to, genocide, another war crimes, massive rapes and killings of civilians. indiscriminate bottling of civilian areas and infrastructure. all of that must be addressed before we even start talking about security guarantees for

russia. >> what is your valuation where things are right? now it's somewhat there's a question of losing ground in this war but winter is a remarkable weapon for russia, which has been targeting civilian energy targets. which you just cannot beat, considering issues of war when you are targeting kyiv in lviv but they are doing it and i've heard to freeze ukrainians out. >> well, from looking at opinion polls versus not having the desired effect that no one is clamoring now to get into russia. and as far as winter is concerned their experts on war that i have seen who basically argue that the disadvantages for the russian side with the poor equipment and their inability to actually supply their troops. ukraine really is much more in

the finish winter war. of 1930, nine and 1840. when, with a massive invasion by stalin's troops, leap lucky fans nonetheless have leave far viewer people held off this onslaught. , where in fact, winter did not determine in the least. so i think that the winter part may affect russia quite a bit simply because of the problems they are having from my understanding. for my reading, basically, of military experts and scenes that ukrainians did lack the major disadvantage. >> president elvis, good to see you as always. thank you for. supporting the former president of estonia. still, ahead respect for marriage act as a step in the right direction. but not as big of a step as you might think. my friend and colleague jonathan capehart joins me next

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about the miracle of bipartisanship they got the respect for marriage act over the finish line in the u.s. senate. the bill provides historic federal protections for same-sex and interracial marriage. something that somebody felt like was a crucial priority after the supreme court justice clarence thomas used his concurring opinion in the case which overturned abortion rights to target the case that legalized same sex marriage. and while they respect for marriage act is a key victory and a bipartisan one it is causing big -- my msnbc colleague jonathan capehart really calling this week for the washington post titled, gee, thanks for the tiny step to protect my same-sex marriage. and we should point out that while the bill does require states to recognize same sex marriages before legally in other states it still does not require them to issue marriage licenses themselves.

so if the supreme court can used in the past that clarence thomas would like them to go, statewide same-sex marriages which are in place in about 37 states could still be legal once again. jonathan joins me now is the host of the sunday show here on msnbc it is an important distinction jonathan. very celebrating as they should have been a bipartisan victory in the senate, about something that we believe that 70% plus americans believe should be a right. you pointed out that it is not all there yet. >> it is not all there. and you laid out why perfectly in your intro there, ali. the key thing here to remember is, think of the respect for marriage act as insurance. not comprehensive insurance but insurance in case of disaster strikes. and a disaster would be the supreme court re-considering the ruling that many same-sex marriages a constitutional right in this country. if obergefell, that is the name of the decision, were to be overturned, what would happen

in this country is akin to what happened when dom's overturned roe v. wade. which is that there are a bunch of states that still have bans on same sex marriage on their books. it is either a -- or constitutional amendment. obergefell goes, away suddenly marriage is no longer legal in 35 states. but the weather respect for marriage act does is it says that those states must recognize those marriages. unfortunately if, say, my husband and i moved back to north dakota where they do not have same-sex marriage it is not legal on the books in terms of law and constitutional amendment, if we had friends who lived there they would have to leave the state, come to washington or go to new york, where you are, to get married. and then returned home and have the state recognize their marriage. it is unfair financial burden it is also ridiculous. >> it is ridiculous and it is a basic right.

a little seven the right direction i'm glad you pointed out the shortcomings, my friend. jonathan kaye part is the host of the sunday show and stay tuned right after velshi's the sunday show starts at 10 am eastern. he's a special guest congressman david cicilline and democrat of rhode island. right after the, break unabashedly homophobic, racist, antisemitic tweets are on the rise all in the name of free speech. we're gonna talk about that, next. next and juicy steak. let's get some more analysis on that, chuck. mmm. pepper jack. tender steak. very insightful, guys. the new subway series. what's your pick? if your business kept on employees through the pandemic, innovation refunds could qualify it for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee. all it takes is eight minutes to find out. then work with highly qualified professionals to fill out your forms and submit the application. go to innovationrefunds.com to learn more. when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis persists... put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when uc got unpredictable,...

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takeover of, twitter many users have complained about the collapse of civility on the side. they are not. wrong recent data blacks are observations. soon after musk acquired the platform, which hosts around 450 million active monthly users, he shared a gentle and to see the restored hunters of accounts with far-right figures, white nationalists and qanon adherence. you can imagine what happened next. here it is in the numbers. slurs against black americans increased by 202% after musk took over according to the new york times. it gets game and it spiked by 58, percent in antisemitic post a score before the 61% in a two weeks after musk acquired the site. musk also brought back a controversial far-right figures like the neo-nazi and your england in the end of the daily store room and openly racist and fascist publications. for mask, who calls himself a free speech absolutist, the october scoring previously restricted accounts is some kind of crusade to free big

tech from imaginary control by the political left. to assert this, point just this week, he released a deliberation from 2020 which included the decision that twitter took to limit a new york post news piece related to hunter biden's laptop. responding to a document where twitter employee indicated that the site had handled certain posts at the request of somebody from the biden campaign. musk tweeted, quote, if this is not a violation of the constitution first amendment, what it is? twitter acting by itself to suppress free speech is not a first amendment violation. but acting under orders from the government suppressed free speech with no judicial review, is. and quote. this is what we in the cable business like to call a hot. take it reveals elon musk's profound ignorance of the first amendment. it includes government contact. actors like twitter, and in musk's example not only was the biden campaign not part of the government, but the ultimate decision to actually agree to

honor the request to came from a fundamentally -- private decision taken by private company. the biden campaign is not the government. as it stands, social media platforms like twitter are free to limit as much or as little free speech as they want, barring a few exceptions. ultimately, any limits imposed will be defined by the company's own values and the sudden deluge of dangerous -- on twitter arguably or flex the values of a new owners. a toxic atmosphere he is unleashed his already led numerous high-profile figures to quit to the site in protest. the new yorkers jelani, cobb for instance, says he is getting twitter because it now subsidize a billionaire who understands free speech is synonymous with the right to abuse others. and quote. others, however, like my next guests, have chosen to stay. also we are not the protest. karen as he explains her reason for staying in this piece. , quote for, years via, twitter black women have been sounding the alarm about having targets on our blacks. we have protested in resisted.

it took mosque in the rise of blatant antisemitism man, feeling uncomfortable, to finally prompt more widespread protests. and now an exodus. twitter is probably the only platform where elite institutions and powerful individuals share space with marginalized people. people on the right know well how to exploit every instrument of social and cultural power. sadly the west seems not to a figure this. out liberal inaction and retrieves do not bode well for anti racist allyship, or resistance. karen atia will join me with. -- bosnia who's been closely monitoring the changes on. twitter right after this. ter this go for a run. go for 10 runs! run a marathon. instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette. ♪♪ subway's drafting 12 new subs for the all-new subway series menu

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well, we fell in love through gaming. earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. but now the internet lags and it throws the whole thing off. when did you first discover this lag? i signed us up for t-mobile home internet. ugh! but, we found other interests. i guess we have. [both] finch! let's go! oh yeah! it's not the same. what could you do to solve the problem? we could get xfinity? that's actually super adult of you to suggest. i can't wait to squad up. i love it when you talk nerdy to me. guy, guys, guys, we're still in session. >> i want to welcome karen and i don't know what the heck you're talking about.

okita, washington post columnist running an international affairs culture and human rights issues. also with us as my friend brandy whereas nominee who covers extremism and the internet. welcome to both of you. brandi, you and i had a conversation about this on friday night about the fact that this is really bearing out. there are things happening on twitter in which some people are leaving the platform. more people who were otherwise banned i thought it was a biased plot for joining. it and whatever happens to twitter into the end, there seems to be an ideological shift going on. you might better explanation than mine. tell us a bit of what is actually happening. >> well, yes, good morning.

elon musk has bought twitter and he has spent his time reversing these policies and practices that made twitter one porto what takes. was which is that they're driven off the charts, teams that once did this work, of content moderation. veteran and safety, were general security, stuff like that. this is having an. effect we looked itself to be the users. because of the policy reversals on, changes twitter does seem to be a place where white nationalists are allowed, and where each are including lgbtq hate speech is appreciated. harassment is normalize. advocates have led the platform. because they put these huge incentives. they have to keep in mind for advertisers, and regular users, just in the past, week some of the trends last week included the names of neo-nazis, terms

like swastika, and what the people want to be part of in the community like, that or conversations like, that we're gonna wait and see. >> let me quote from a peace deal published on, wednesday saying that if there is a group that should be fleeing twitter, when we think it should be black. women at this one in my, career i've been threatened with rape and called the n-word more thompson i can. can i had authoritarian supposedly liberal government attack me online. and that does not include the tweets from professional blue check mark twitters, which contended me and belittled my work and expertise. twitter has always been a snake catering to the worst of human impulses. despite all of, that karen, you have decided for now at least you are saying. >> yeah. i am not going anywhere. and still the twitter ship. thanks, again twitter has always been a risky and dangerous, place particularly for black women. there was a study done by amnesty international saying that black women were 84% more

tweets containing abuse then why tom and anyone else on the platform. and so the court used to operating in hospital spaces, and i'm not sure quite love the idea that all the sudden, just because elon musk brought this platform, but it was some kind of utopia before. for me, and for a lot of, people and frankly for a lot of black people, this is been a tool that has been used to organize community. people use twitter from particularly marginalized spaces to fund-raise for medical bills. to direct attention on the stories that otherwise get mainstream attention. so, for me, this idea that we should abandon or be a platform that can, be yes, a tool of abuse and hate, for the band in

the platform that has actually been able to do so much for good. for black lives matter, i, think was the largest civil rights protest in the history of this world. and it probably was not have been possible but for the amplification of the platform like twitter. and so i just don't really see the justification. of completely abandoning a. tool that is so powerful. >> brandi, i think this is an issue taken out of our political journalistic view, for a moment. and realize that in the rest of the world, social media platforms, twitter in particular, but facebook and others, people see them differently. people who are fighting for democracy, people fighting the government. governments see the, differently by the way. they are try in both china and iran, to limit peoples access to these things. because they think that it is a threat. do we need to think about that for marginalized movements? for people who are otherwise not in power? social media gives them the

power that they have not had before. even if twitter is filled with hate speech. >> absolutely, it is a double edged sword, though. the thing that makes it so powerful and such a power for good in the world's than it does amplify marginalized voices. and it does get out messages. it is also the danger, of it right? we can amplify voices of neo-nazis, that is a problem. , also when we talk about other, areas we see what happens when twitter or facebook, social media platforms, do not have a robust team and other parts of the world. to deal with hate speech, or deal with what happens with governments, when they launch specific campaigns against journalists are against marginalized people, or against people who are fighting for democracy. that could be a very dangerous thing, indeed. so we want these platforms but we want them also to be guided by some sort of north star. and apparently only north star

into the right now is elon musk. >> but karen, elon musk would say that his north star as freedom of speech. his north star as the first amendment. his north star as a public square in which things are really discussed and debated. i would actually be with him on that but he doesn't seem to understand the first amendment and he doesn't is about anything that twitter monitoring its context is somehow -- with the first amendment. how do you square? that how do you explain to him and people that twitter as a company can be a town, swear can moderate content, and still, yet, not be a platform that amplifies hate and indignity? >> elon's north star is himself and him wanting to be the main character and the chaos agent. he literally has up tweets talking about being the voice of the people in the voice of god. he wants to be the voice of god

on twitter. so i don't, again. the fact that the owner of twitter who has the potential to put his thumb on the scale when it comes to amplifying content, this is not something they want to dismiss at all and i hope people are not making that this way. that being said -- and i also want people to be safe obviously and to take precautions. because it is not just about abuse or hate speech but also about impersonation and digital security and so i do agree that these things need to be taken into account. however, i think that twitter has always resided in twitter users and in the people and so we are the products. we are the platform. and this notion about sharing space with fascist neo-nazis is frankly a feature of a society

and a democracy where speech is valued and it doesn't mean that fascism is baked into the societal system where the potential for justice and progress exists. and i think that is just a part of our society. again, however, i see this as look, if it wasn't for twitter, so much of our language and our culture in the words that we use coming from black twitter, would not be here. so i think that for me personally i see it as a form of resistance and a form of survival. to remain where my people are. and frankly, like, where we are talking about this. and frankly block twitter is still blocked whether we are still on here sharing things about the world cup. this is how the world is there are awards running right ukraine.

soccer loves and hates. and things like that. and i think that is the beauty and the terrorof twitter. i guess that for me personally i learned to embrace that and survive that for now at least. >> for now i will stick around until there with you, karen. it is compelling. arguments i appreciated. but let me tell, you randi, i'm sure you feel it more than some of us but there are warnings when i get up when i'm like i do not have an issue to tweet to these damn things. high blood pressure. thanks to both of, you very meaningful conversation. -- is a columnist for the washington post. -- is it excellent nbc news senior reporter covering information extremism and the internet. with all that being, said as i said, i still use twitter. a lot, as you know. and i try to engage with you as much as possible. i'm deeply appreciative for those of you who sent me information and criticism. for those of you who are migrating for several tours, you can find me there. to my handle on nooses at velshi. a masters on i'm velshi as a master dog dot world.

you can see on the screen. i'm also on facebook, instagram, and linkedin. we have a velshi banned book club feature select, a new york times bestselling novel extremely lies incredibly close by john got in -- the book is narrated by nine year old oscar. he was on a hunt for answers and closure after his father's death in a 9/11 terrorist attack. it has been, begged a lot. senator questions and comments. and your reactions to my story at velshi dot com. that is my story it's velshi .com. that does it for, we thank you for watching. velshi next saturday and sunday morning it's 10 am, eastern velshi is also available for broadcasts. you can listen to the entire show on the go. anytime subscribe and listen for free where you get your podcasts. right, we won the sunday show with jonathan capehart begins right now. right now. all eyes on georgia. a big conversation in -- about the senate runoff between rafael warnock and herschel

walker in just two days, and