happened yet. they're going to want to be able to make a strong case to a jury that there's real damage here. if the documents were in a basement, that's a less persuasive case. >> they better get a conviction as well. we know the political ramifications on both parties when this comes down. the new yorker's david rohde. thank you to all of us for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. we'll send it over to "morning joe" which starts right now. the election is this tuesday, they have already started counting votes by mail. >> you got to remember, they have to count votes by female. >> in the final push, let's lay low and focus on the message. >> exactly. just like kanye. >> no, no. on the issues people care about, inflation, crime. >> vampires, werewolves, that scarey little geico gecko. we going to be looking into all of that. >> "saturday night live" on

herschel walker, ahead of tomorrow's runoff election in georgia. turnout continues to break records. we'll tell you where things stand right now. and attention all constitutional conservatives, do you have anything to say about donald trump's latest assault on democracy? this is the line, folks. calling for the united states constitution to be terminated. will top republican leaders speak out or will they follow their party down the drain. we'll also play what incoming israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu had to say about the former president's embrace of anti-semites and white nationalists. he's trumping all over our values and now spitting on our constitution. really? how far does he need to go or how far do you need to go before you are no longer a republican? that might be the question republicans want to ask themselves this morning. no, it is.

good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, december 5th. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, the host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay, and the founder of the conservative web site the bulwark, charlie sykes joins us today. great to have you all on board. joe is off. now have him calling for the constitution to be terminated. it came after twitter owner elon musk promised to expose how the company suppressed free speech by blocking the "new york post's" story about hunter biden in the 2020 election. the twitter files were released on friday but failed to show evidence that democrats or the government pressured twitter

into suppressing the story. still, trump tweeted this on saturday. with the revelation of massive and widespread fraud and deception and working chosely with big tech companies, the dnc and the democrat party do throw the presidential election results of 2020 out and declare the rightful winner or do you have a new election. a massive fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations and articles. even though found in the constitution. democrats were quick to condemn the remarks. the white house released the following statement, the american constitution is a sacrosanct document that for over 200 years has guaranteed that freedom and the rule of law prevail in our country. the constitution brings american people together regardless of party, and elected leaders swear

to uphold it. it's the ultimate monument to all of the americans who have given their lives to defeat self-serving despots and abuse their power and trampled on fundamental rights, attacking the constitution and all it stands for is anathema to the soul of our nation and should be universally condemned. you can not only love america when you win. most top republicans have so far been silent. republican congressman adam kinzinger tweeted this. with the former president calling to throw aside the constitution, not a single conservative can legitimately support him and not a single supporter can be called a conservative. this is insane. trump hates the constitution. he then called on top republican house members, kevin mccarthy, elise stefanik and jim jordan to

respond. former trump national security adviser john bolton tweeted all real conservatives must oppose trump's reelection bid, and here is former chief of staff to vice president mike pence on "meet the press." >> i don't think it's a good platform for a presidential campaign to say that we should set the constitution aside, and i feel like we've seen this continue since january 6th, and as far as putting the constitution aside, i candidly think that's what he asked the vice president to do two years ago when he asked the vice president to overturn the election results. i think unfortunately this has been a consistent trend. >> and there was this exchange involving the top republican on the house intelligence committee, mike turner. >> should the starld bearer for the republican party, the front runner for the presidency, for your party in 2024 say this? >> well, you know, first of all,

i vehemently disagree with the statement that trump has made. trump has made, you know, a thousand statements in which i disagree. there is a political process that has to go forward before anybody -- >> constitutional conservatives are pretty clear about where they value the constitution. >> right. exactly. is there any scenario -- >> you get the pick the questions, i do get to pick my answer. >> i'm trying to get you to answer the question i'm asking. >> there's a political process to go forward before anybody is a front runner or anybody is even the candidate for the party. >> do you condemn him -- >> absolutely. and i believe, answering your question, that people are going to take into consideration a statement like this as they evaluate a candidate. >> really? you have to evaluate that. you have to evaluate that, so you have to evaluate racism, you have to evaluate anti-semitism, core values of our country. you have to evaluate when they

are trumped on, and you have to evaluate terminating the constitution. there is no republican. there is no one who can call themselves a conservative. quite frankly, there's no one who can call themselves an american and still support donald trump. it's pretty simple. and republicans, you know this, you're in a corner. he's put you in there. you are squished into that corner. the question is, are you going to man up and step out. donald trump has now told us, charlie sykes, that he's a traitor to the u.s. constitution. he's a traitor to america. okay. in his words. i don't think there's any other way to put it. i don't know what else you need. i don't know what middle ground there is, and any answer to any question about this, but an unequivocal rejection of donald trump. we've watched our values get flouted, mocked over the past several weeks even, throughout

his entire presidency, but come on, what more do you need, but who are you because you're not a republican, not you, charlie, but people like kevin mccarthy and jim jordan, and elise stefanik, and other leaders in this party who can't claim to actually, even mike pence can't really come close to saying it. he's getting closer, god bless him, better late than never. but the constitution of the united states of america, he stated he wants to terminate the united states constitution. this the done. >> he put it in writing. this is the extraordinary -- i feel like we're in some sort of an insane alternative reality simulation here. in the last two weeks, you had donald trump pledge solidarity for the january 6th rioters. he has dinner with an actual neo-nazi and a notorious anti-semite and fan of adolph

hitler, and calls for terminating the laws, including the articles of the constitution, and the republican party, you know, the fact that they cannot draw the line here is really extraordinary, although perhaps not new. it is as if donald trump has gone full troll. how far can he push this. how much can he get them to swallow? you know, on tuesday we had a federal jury find the oath keeper leaders guilty of seditious conspiracy. four days later, the former president of the united states says seditious conspiracy, hold my beer, i'm going to put out a call to terminate the constitution so i can be restored. >> oh, lost charlie there. we'll get his audio back. but bottom line is it's not just what he can get republicans to swallow. he's making complete fools of you and everything you stand for and everything you've ever worked for in your life, but he's a danger to our country.

these are dangerous statements. he is telling you what he wants to do. believe him. okay. like how much does this country have to go through? how much division, how much hatred? how much pressure on our system, how much law enforcement, the fbi, the department of justice, police officers anybody who's in donald trump's sights, how much does this country have to go through? how much stress on our system and on our democracy do we need to endure before we see that this man is a fascist, and that he has very very bad intentions and republicans, you are helping him by not stepping up and manning up and saying what is right and who you are and what you really are, what you stand for, and if you're not a republican, and you're not a conservative, then you can go follow after donald trump. but if you are, then you need to

walk away loudly. today. "the washington post's" ruth marcus has a post called trump's call for suspending the constitution is too dangerous to ignore, and writes in part the former and would be future president has suggested suspending the constitution in support of his deranged belief that he won the election and that its results are subject to change. by the way, guys, he knows he lost. he is doing what he's doing, which is fascism. a man who took an oath to preserve, protect and defend the constitution now has hi jacked our great founders in the service of his megalow mania. nothing, and not imaginary fraud allows for the termination of constitutional guarantees. trump is laying the ground work for a coup. the mere willingness to

entertain and encourage extra constitutional action is alarming coming from a man who is seeking to return to office. hello. we do not want to give him oxygen, yet there are times we dare not ignore him. this is one. it should be neither excused nor forgotten. and jonathan lemire, it is important to put a frame around what donald trump said, and ask every republican to tell us where they stand on this. >> charlie ticked off the the last couple of weeks. now wants to terminate the constitution. that is quite the campaign kickoff for donald trump's 2024 bid, and the silence from republicans is telling. and a few that have been willing to talk off the record have said, well, you know, trump doesn't mean it. he says things. he exaggerates. we have been here before. trump, yes, he says a lot of things, but that same attitude, rev is what got us to january 6th. this idea, we all remember the days after the 2020 elections and republicans were saying one

quote in the "washington post" saying, well, let's give him a few days. he hasn't conceded yet, but what's the harm in letting him rant and rave a little bit. we know what the harm is. an assault on american democracy and insurrection at the u.s. capitol. and now he's suggesting he wants to go even further, but is there anything outside of the usual voices of kinzinger, cheney, and romney, is there anything that gives you any hope that this time will be any different than for any other republican. >> i don't have hope it will be different because we're now several days since he wrote it, and we have not seen the kind of uproar from the republican leadership we should have seen. let's be real clear. many of us, i personally have known donald trump for years, and felt he was on the wrong side, and we fought and at times even marched on him, disagreed with him. he has become unhinged.

he's only going to get worse. his narcissism has become deadly in terms of what he's encouraging. this is way over the top, and i think that it will only get worse unless he's stopped. i mean, for him to within the same week, the founders of the oath keepers are convicted to call for the constitution to be set aside is a guy that's not even putting caution in his own way. he is outright advocating, i'm with this, i'm for the overthrowing of the government, and i dare you to stop me, and that dare goes to the leaders of the republican party. not by the people like me, but by donald trump. >> exactly. and i would just do one tweak. he hasn't become. this is who he is. >> it's who he is. >> this is who he's always been, and it took everybody and, you know, ourselves included to really realize how bad this was. we realized early on in his presidency, but it was too damn late.

are we going to do this again? the question is for republican leaders, are you going to face that this is who he is or are you going to continue to walk with him because you, right now, stand between possibly our country and our democracy becoming irreparably damaged or not. do you stand up for democracy, katty kay? the question should be asked to every republican, every minute of every day by every reporter that can get in the presence of a republican leader because these people have a chance to lead, and quite frankly guide their supporters on the importance of the constitution. on the very framework of this democracy that got them elected can sometimes there is leading that needs to be done, and the question is will they -- they seem so weak, and simple minded, and quite frankly, as if their

brain has been washed by donald trump. >> if you want to look at a picture of republican awkwardness, you only had to look at the sunday shows, and played some of the clips. there was also republican congressman david joist being interviewed by george stephanopoulos. he was asked, are you going to say that you would support a candidate who is in favor of doing away with the u.s. constitution. in the end, all the congressman could say, you know, he says a lot of things. >> no. >> they are pushed into a corner with this one, but i wonder whether there isn't something of desperation about donald trump on this and whether actually, you know, he's looking at the recent polls that have ron desantis ahead of him on a one on one match up in the primaries, have ron desantis beating trump, have ron desantis beating biden even in polls that are coming out. and i can imagine this is causing trump an awful lot of consternation, and he tried that moderated rollout, and you know,

tepid kind of low energy rollout of his campaign announcement, and it didn't get him very far, and got him criticism from his base. is he trying to ramp up his extremism. i don't know, charlie, you look at republican politics, does this smack to you what you're seeing from trump? i don't know how to get people excited about my candidacy, i tried the normal guy thing, and that didn't work. now i'm going to do something completely crazy and extreme on the political spectrum and suggest throwing out the u.s. constitution. i don't know. i'm looking at the polls and the way he's reacting and there seems to be a correlation. >> it does feel completely unhinged. essentially what he's saying, damn right i tried a coup and i'm going to do it again. for leading republicans to come out, and not just answer questions from the media but give major speeches saying this

crosses the line. sedition, and calling for the termination of the constitution. this seems to be the ultimate bright line. january 6th should have been the ultimate bright line, the big lie should have been the ultimate bright line. the extortion of ukraine should have been the bright line, but this seems unambiguous, and so the question is will they do all of this? and i don't know. they have had many chances to take an off ramp, but you could certainly imagine someone like a mike pence, mitch mcconnell, you know, coming out and saying that, look, we are all americans. we are all conservatives. we are republicans who believe in the rule of law and the constitution. and this is just too far, we cannot allow this to happen. but, yeah, donald trump does seem to be throwing things up against the wall, and again, you know, i want to just emphasize that this is extremely dangerous

that he's doing this. but it is also dangerous if republicans stay silent and by their silence acquiesce and normalize this. what we have seen is the way these crazy ideas become normalized and accepted in the mainstream. if republicans do not take the off ramp, if they do not push back against this, in some ways, this is just as dangerous as donald trump's tweet because they will be accepting the fact that, oh, yes, talking about throwing out the constitution and having an actual coup is just, well, that's just politics these days. that's just the way things are, and that's going to be very difficult to unwind. >> jonathan lemire, i'm not surprised at all that donald trump said something like this, and you saw it coming, however can he go, how low can he go to get the attention on him. he's so desperate for it.

he is fascist, a person with fascist tendencies, there's no argument here. not going to even waste my time with it. i don't care about him. i care about republicans. my question is it naive to think that at this moment, it could be a moment where they could step up in defense of our democracy and actually turn this around for them and rid themselves of this cultist scourge on their party. >> they have had those moments before and never took them. >> and passed them up. what's wrong with them. >> the most egregious example is after january 6th, where two weeks it looked like trump was in the wilderness. kevin mccarthy went to florida, needed his support for the house speaker bid, and that began the reconciliation bid. you'll hear probably from mitch mcconnell who has taken himself as a person to condemn some of trump's more outrageous statements but probably won't hear from a ron desantis, who could so easily. it's a political layup. you have an event this week, you

condemn the dinner with a nazi, and the efforts to terminate the constitution. that would be a bright line to say that's too much. we're not going to be as a republican party with that. there's to sense of that coming up. trump, another effort to live in the past. this was spurred by this twitter nonsense of hunter biden. >> this is a very dangerous man. it is election eve in georgia in the runoff race between senator raphael warnock and his republican challenger, herschel walker, and nearly 2 million georgians have voted. the massive turnout breaking multiple single day records. the early vote total is expected to continue to rise as absentee ballots come in. the party balance favors the incumbent, senator warnock with hatch of early voters being democrats. according to georgiavotes.com, 75,000 early voters did not cast

a ballot in november. either way, tomorrow's race will make history as georgia's first senatorial election with two black candidates. let's bring in political reporter from the atlanta constitution, greg bluestein. give us a lay of the land in terms of where things stand now, and why this race very much matters. i know in terms of the balance, the dems have the number, but it would be good to get georgia for dems. >> to your latter question first, this is still a consequential race, right. senate control is not on the line, but it's a 51st senator for democrats. more leverage, more leeway. more insulation, joe manchin, and kyrsten sinema from defecting on an issue and rips up the power sharing in the house committees. and for republicans, that seat puts them at 50/50 and puts them

one seat closer on the cusp of taking over the u.s. senate in case something happens. the first question, the lay of the land in georgia, democrats are really optimistic. more than 1.8 million people have voted as you said, and the balance is tilting in democrats' favor. it's because a disproportionately high number of black voters and republican strongholds have voted. there's a caveat. republicans tend to do well on election day on tuesday itself, and that's why democrats are optimistic, but they're cautiously optimistic because they know a surge of turnout could end up tilting the balance in herschel walker's favor. >> one of the things you keep highlighting, 75,000 people voting in the early runoff that did not vote in november. i have talked to people on the ground, people on my radio show comes on all over georgia in a

syndicated radio show. i have offices of the national action network there, and i'm hearing people saying they're voting now because they did not think it was possible for herschel walker to win. and after seeing how close it was unexpectedly in their minds in november, they wanted to come out and make sure they did not end up with herschel walker as their senator. are you hearing any reason from your vantage point and from the paper you represent that people are giving, what motivated them to vote in the runoff when they didn't vote in november in the general election. >> i think there were a lot of voters who were november election was their wake up call. some were governor. some thought brian kemp would pull herschel walker across the finish line. i can tell you that, you know, democrats were preparing for a

potential runoff for a very long time, so this was no shock to them. although in herschel walker's case, there were some aides of his that were expecting him to outright win, and they were despondent that we're in a four-week runoff. and senator warnock and jon ossoff won the runoff. i think one of the things that has helped newer voters get to the polls was the republican effort to restrict saturday effort about ten days ago. that really backfired and led to a turbo charged turnout for the democrats over the last week. >> greg makes a good point. stakes are high for the senate race, including committee chairs. if the democrats get to 51. the majority is no longer up for grabs. we talked about how republicans don't seem willing to cut ties

with donald trump just yet. what's your assessment here? are there some republicans in the state of georgia who held their nose and voted for herschel walker despite his obvious lack of qualifications. now that the majority is not at stake, do we think some of those folks stay home, and they want to turn the page? >> well, look, in a year of many many flawed candidates is there anybody even remotely in herschel walker's league as being unqualified for the united states senate. the only real rationalization for voting for herschel walker was the control of the senate, so i think you have two things, at least what i can glean sitting up here in wisconsin. you had a lot of voters that came out to vote for other offices, including governor brian kemp, who may not turn out, and you have others who would have voted for herschel

walker if they thought it was for control of the senate. without the senate being in play, is a bridge too far. and virtually every day, herschel walker reminds voters how absurd and crazy it is to think that he should be in the united states senate. that "saturday night live" skit was hilarious because, in fact, it actually captures who he was. and i thought president obama's speech last week just highlighted the ultimate absurdity of herschel walker's candidacy, and the only reason we're having this discussion is because donald trump decided to intervene in this, and this was his hand picked celebrity maga candidate. and of course afterwards, it's going to be fallout. how much losing do republicans want to do with donald trump with the sedition, the crazy and the defeat. >> you know, herschel walker,

charlie is unfit for the job, it's embarrassing and seems racist and condescending this a million different ways. he is unmoored. he seems to have a lot of problems, but just intellectually, he's not even remotely close to being up for the job. completely unfit. i would argue at this point that any republican that can't say what donald trump said is wrong and i stand up for american values and for our democracy and our constitution, and i reject what donald trump said and i reject the values and the comments that he is bringing to the table, and i reject him as a candidate. if they can't do that, they are equally as unfit as herschel walker. >> yeah, i completely agree with that, as you know, but as jonathan pointed out a few minutes ago. republicans have had this challenge and this opportunity many times in the past. and they have failed over and

over and over again. >> scary. >> so i agree that this is uniquely dangerous, but it feels naive to think that republicans will suddenly recapture their conscience. now, however, if they suffer another defeat, we've seen that republicans do respond to losing elections. that may be the variable but we are in a uniquely dangerous moment. >> very. really quick, reverend. >> i think that, again, we cannot let ron desantis off the hook here. >> no. >> you know, because that's what happened -- that's how donald trump -- >> any republican. >> we did not hold him accountable for his craziness leading in. we are allowing ron desantis to have political laryngitis in the middle of an anti-semite and holocaust denier, having dinner with trump in desantis's state and he has not said anything. now he's calling for the suspension of the constitution from his state.

why are we talking about desantis could beat trump in the polls like there's some difference between the two. if there's a difference, desantis need to come out and say there's a difference. if not, we put him over there with trump. >> charlie sykes, thank you very much, political reporter for the "atlanta journal-constitution," greg bluestein thank you as well. a lot more still ahead on "morning joe." the latest from iran where there is new confusion about the state of the country's so called morality police following months of protests. we'll get a live report on that. plus, what minority leader kevin mccarthy is saying about his fight to become the next house speaker. also ahead, paul pelosi makes his first public appearance following a brutal attack inside his san francisco home in october. and never before heard conversations from prisoner to president, nelson mandela, rick

stengle joins us with a look at his brand new podcast. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. dct. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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academy award winner, george clooney, the empress of soul, gladys knight, christian pop star, amy grant, composer, tonya leon, and four members of the irish rock super group u2. also in attendance, house speaker nancy pelosi, and her husband paul who is making his first public appearance following the attack that happened inside his home. he's still recovering from the injuries he sustained during the home invasion in san francisco on october 28th. and wore a hat to cover his bandages, but he was there, speaking at the event, president biden highlighted the theme of we the people, and praised each honoree for their remarkable work and impact they have had on the world. >> u2 spoke about a song of the unspeakable, cost of hate, anger

and division, the pain, suffering, denial of freedom, senseless loss of life and the inhumanity we inflict on each other, all flowing from division that for all of us is visible, manifestations lie first and foremost in our hearts. at a moment when there's too much hate, too much anger, too much division here in america, and quite frankly around the world, we have to remember today as our song goes, we are one. but we're not the same. we get to carry each other. >> it's so good to see paul pelosi up and moving about, and nancy says he's doing fine. they're so strong. coming up, democrats campaigned on protecting democracy leading up to the midterms. so how are americans feeling about the issue now weeks after election day? we'll have the latest polling on that. new elected chair of the

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welcome back. 41 past the hour. after more than two months of protests across iran, there's some confusion and skepticism this morning about possible changes to women's rights there. according to iranian media, the country's attorney general said on saturday that iran had disbanded its so-called morality police, and is considering altering the requirement that women cover their heads in public. this claim has not been officially confirmed by iran's government. nationwide protests were sparked in september by the death of 22-year-old mahsa amini who died in a hospital three days after being taken into custody by iran's morality police.

amini was detained over an alleged violation of the conservative dress code for women. according to human rights groups and "the washington post," more than 400 people have been killed, and more than 15,000 arrested in the country's crack down on the demonstrations and protests that have followed. iranian officials say 200 people have died in those protests including security services and there are many reports of women being abused and men, while in custody. this is a disastrous situation in iran. joining us now. nbc news teheran bureau chief, ali arouzi. he's live in london. where does this go from here. how do we find out if there's any truth to what the attorney general said versus what the government will live up to. >> good morning, mika, yes, there is confusion about what the attorney general said. let me shed light on it. what seems to be emerging is that they want to get rid of the

physical presence of the morality police on the streets of iran. and quite frankly, they haven't really been around since the death of mahsa amini. rather than having physical police, arresting women on the streets and seeing horrible scenes we have seen all too often over the decades, they want to control it remotely by surveillance camera, facial recognition, so if a woman isn't wearing her hijab, she wouldn't be allowed to go to a bank or lose social privileges. the reason they're doing this, mika, and this is the most important part is because they simply can't enforce the hijab anymore. since the death of mahsa amini, 60% of the women walk around without a hijab. if they're not in a protest, then the police leave them alone. the face of teheran has changed.

for the first time in decades, you're seeing women's hair on the streets. you're seeing graffiti all over the wall, which the municipality paint over the next day, and then protesters put back on. so this is why they're doing it because they simply can't enforce it. the airport i came out of is a high security zone. most of the women not only weren't wearing a head scarf, they weren't wearing the mandatory loose fitting coat that doesn't reveal your figure. they have gotten rid of that themselves because they just can't enforce it anymore. it's totally changed. a lot of people ask me, a lot of these violence and protests bring about change? it already has. women have shed the head scarf and it would be very difficult to see how the government would enforce that again. again, the trajectory of what's going to happen next is unclear. the government saying they will have some review of the head scarf. they're not going to get rid of it. it's a pillar of the islamic

republic, and if they got rid of it, it would be a slippery slope. >> if women by protesting and men as well have de facto changed that element of restriction, what they now seem to be asking for is something more than the hi jab. it's just a symbol of the repression they want to get rid of. in a sense, if the government allows people not to wear head scarves, is it a slippery slope that they then have to start listening to all of the other cries for change as well? >> that's exactly the case. i mean, the hi jab was just the tip of the iceberg, and you hear that now. people are saying, listen, we have gotten rid of the hijab, and there's a lot more to sort out for ourselves. women want equal rights with men which they don't enjoy in iran. women's testimony in court is worth half of a man's. women's rights are much less

than those of men. and they want complete equality and you just see the chasm between the ruling system and the people. the ruling system refused to even call these protests. they call them riots, and the protesters refuse to call these riots, they call it a revolution. the only two things they can agree on is these are not protests. the government wants to play it down and the people on the streets want to play it up. they are miles apart from each other, and the hijab is one of many things people want changed in iran. >> ali arouzi, thank you very much for your insight. and joining us in new york, former under secretary of state, rick stengel. we have a lot to talk to you about. good to see you again. >> great to see you. >> especially your new podcast with the lost tapes as you call it with nelson mandela, your interviews with him. i want to talk to you about that in a moment. first, if we could start with iran, i mean, if you really read

deeply into what's happening there and try and get the most information, the situation is out of control, and there are horrendous reports of brutality happening to female protesters, male protesters in custody, let alone those who have died. where does this go from here? >> it's hard to know. i commend the protesters, they're doing it at great risk to themselves. >> they certainly are. one of the things i have thought is odd about iran that people don't realize, they have the most progressive group of citizens in the middle east, the most repressive government. people are progressive. i was there ten years ago, and women wore the hijab but let their hair show. they wore form fitting garments. it's a very progressive society. they will not be satisfied with some of the same kind of give-ins that the government would do in sunni nations.

they want a complete small d democracy, and by the way, i think it would actually work there. >> right. it's sort of hard to put the tooth paste back in the tube. the younger generation has seen how the rest of the world looks. i know they try and contain what you have seen. but once you've seen freedom and a sense of how your life could be, for these young people, i don't think they want to go back living literally covered up, but where does it go in terms of how dangerous this gets for the society as a whole, and then the global implications? >> yes, the danger is, and i hesitate to even say this word, a kind of a civil war because the ayatollahs, the military forces that are aligned with the government, they're not going to give in. and the people are very progressive, and so i don't know that there's some kind of compromise that could really happen. remember, we saw the green

revolution in teheran in 2008, which was the first time that people were on social media and showing their protests and that almost was a tipping point, we could have something like that again as well. >> rick, let's turn our attention to ukraine for a minute. we know the fighting has sort of slowed down as winter starts to set in. u.s. officials offering an optimistic assessment of where things stand, believing ukraine will be in a good position this spring to launch a real counter offensive. there's interesting headlines out this morning. russian authorities say there have been two explosions and air bases deep within russia that have killed people, deeper than the ukrainians seemed to have weapons to hit. what do we think is going on here. kyiv has hinted in recent days they perhaps would have the ability to strike deeper into russia, nato and the west nervous about this. they don't want the war to escalate into russia, as much as they're sympathetic to ukraine hitting back. could this be the start of a new chapter here?

>> it's a shadow war, the sense that the russians have basically halted their main movements in ukraine, and are using drones and missiles to distract people from what is going on on the ground. i think the ukrainians are responding in kind. they're launching attacks deep within russia, and that puts russia on the back foot, and they don't know what to do. the other thing is, remember, the ukrainians have been brilliant at public relations. they want the russians to start to understand there's sacrifices here, young boys, women, families are losing young men every day, 100,000 or more. they want russians to understand that, and i think if public opinion starts to change in russia, then the russians will have to really negotiate. >> so let's talk about mandela, the lost tapes, the reason you're here. you spent 70 hours interviewing the south african leader in 1993. so that's, what, how many years

ago. >> 30 years ago. >> so tell us about what we're going to hear in this podcast, and why it's important to hear this now? >> i was hired to work with mandela on his autobiography. he had just been out of prison far year or so. he had been in prison for 27 years. i was hired by the american publisher. i was 36 years old. i had never actually met him before, and so, in fact, i spent much more time with him than 70 hours. i basically asked if i could hang around with him and be kind of his mascot. we had a job to do, which was to create long walk to freedom. the reason i think this is so important now is because of all -- yeah. >> look how young you are. >> and that's mandela holding my oldest son, gabriel, whose middle name is mandela's real first name. and my youngest son anton whose middle name is mandiba. >> how special. >> the reason it's so important

is everything you have been talking about on the show for the last six years. there's a democratic recession around the world. he's one of the greatest democratic, he brought democracy to tens of thousands who didn't have it. that was the focus of his entire life and immense sacrifice. we have to sacrifice for democracy, not spend 27 years in prison like he did, but the fact is it's something that has to be achieved and earned. at the same time he's an icon as the reverend knows, and one of the things that you hear in the tapes is you hear the man there. you hear him, you know, ask why don't i have any sugar in my tea, why he needs to have sugar in his tea. he spells out every word, broccoli, two c's, one l, it's kind of fascinating. you get a real sense of what he's like as a person. i don't take him off a pedestal. it's a human being on the pedestal. not a statue. rev, i want you to take it next,

but let's play his voice. rare recordings detailing the turning points of mandela's life, key moments that shaped a revolution, and the man who helped bring freedom to his nation. take a listen. >> if a man can challenge a law and go to jail and come out, that man is not likely to be intimidated. >> it was that simple and it was that profound. he saw wrong and tried to right it. and he did. i never heard him talk about god or heaven or the after life. he wanted justice. i'm just, i don't want to take a break. he wanted justice in this lifetime. >> i had arevolver, which was unlicensed and i just took it out and put it in between the seats.

>> that's nelson mandela. he's talking about the time he was driving down a hill with a gun, and got stopped by the south african security police. >> and at one time i thought i could open the door fast and roll down, but i didn't know how long, you know, this bank was and what was there. >> when that ford v8 pulled in front of his car outside of howick falls, south africa, mandela knew instantly what had happened. he was caught. >> rick, you know, with these tapes coming out, as you know, i was around mandela maybe seven, eight times. >> we were with him a couple of times together. >> that's right. but there was always a sense of he was a great man, and there was like a presence about him. but he was not pretentious. it wasn't like he was trying to prove himself to anyone.

he was just nelson mandela, and you just saw him as that. does any of that come out in the tape because i remember when he came to speak at the u.n. to tell them to lift the sanctions on south africa, and he met with some of the civil rights leaders, and he was as regular as you could be, but he was still regal. there was some mixture you wouldn't explain. >> he was regal. he was raised by a royal family, the son of a chief, he was raised by the king of the tembu people, and he was also, as you know, a magnificent man physically. he was 6'2", he was handsome, he had been a boxer. he had that presence, which we have always associated with leadership throughout time. but he also had this incredibly even temperament, and you couldn't ruffle him at all, and i think that was achieved by all of those years in prison. prison was a crucible that

melted away any impurities in his character. in the lost tapes, you talk about what he was like before prison. you wouldn't recognize that man. i was radical, used high flown hang, i pushed people off the podium. that young man went away during prison. that was one of the questions you hear me ask him over and over. how did you change from 1962 when you were 42 years old, when you came out in 1991 at 72 and in the beginning, he resisted the question, a politician doesn't want to say they changed and one day in frustration, he said to me, i came out mature, and that word mature is so powerful. it means self-control. it means you don't fly off the handle. and he earned it through all of those years in prison. >> absolutely fascinating. rick stengel, thank you very much. rick's new podcast, mandela, the lost tapes, is now available

exclusively on audible. thank you, rick, for bringing it to us. still ahead, new york magazine's new reasons to love new york. we'll get a preview of the upcoming issue and find out what those reasons are. i love new york. plus, elon musk was named person of the year by "time" magazine in 2021. we'll get a look at this year's short list ahead of the big reveal. how about that. "morning joe" will be right back. how about that "morning joe" will be right back nd i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome

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you'd support a candidate who's come out for suspending the constitution? >> he says a lot of things. you have to take him in context, and right now, i have to worry about making sure his republican governance group in the republican majority, we make things work for the american people, and i can't be really chasing every one of these crazy statements that come out from any of these candidates at the moment. >> but that's an extraordinary statement, you can't come out against someone who's for suspending the constitution? >> first off, he has no ability to suspend the constitution. >> he says he's for it. >> well, you know, he says a lot of things. but that doesn't mean that it's ever going to happen. so you got to accept fact from fantasy. >> it's so painful. it's so painful. it's truly disturbing and disgraceful that these republicans cannot say what needs to be said at this moment. that our country really needs to hear it. here's the thing.

like for republicans. like, let's get a -- let's spell it out for you. i'm going to help you out here. do my best. you're walking into the capitol, reporters are approaching you, there's kasie hunt. there's lemire. they're coming up to you, and they get a mic in your face, and they say, what do you think of donald trump wanting to terminate the constitution. here's your moment, the biggest softball of your life. this is your moment, and here you go, why don't you write this down. to terminate the constitution is to terminate america. donald trump is wrong and i can no longer support him at all as a presidential candidate, as an american citizen. you can't be an american citizen and want to terminate the constitution. you can do it. write it down. it's easy. and it's important. welcome back to "morning joe." it's monday, december 5th. jonathan lemire, reverend al sharpton, and katty kay are

still with us, and joining the conversation, cohost of show time's "the circus," john heilemann, and senior columnist for the daily beast, matt lewis is with us this morning. good to have you all. former president donald trump's false claims about the 2020 election have him calling for the constitution to be terminated. it came after twitter owner, elon musk promised to expose how the company suppressed free speech by blocking the "new york post" story about hundred dollarer biden in the runup to the 2020 election. the so called twitter files were released on friday. but failed to show any evidence that democrats or the government pressured twitter into suppressing the story. still, trump tweeted this on saturday. with the revelation of massive and widespread fraud and deception and working closely with big tech companies, the dnc, the democrat party, do you

throw the presidential election results of 2020 out and declare the rightful winner or do you have a new election, a massive fraud of this type and mag tuesday allows for the termination of all rules, regulation, and articles even though found in the constitution. in response, former trump national security adviser john bolton tweeted all real conservatives must oppose trump's reelection bid. hello, good advice. but most top republican senators, members of congress and governors have so far been silent. john heilemann, why can't they just say it? >> you know, mika, i don't know, good morning. i liked everything about the scenario, except the lemire as a reporter. >> he's good at that. >> there's lemire, there's lots

of reporters out there, they got the mic in your face. >> i can do it. i'll ask you tough questions in a minute. >> shiver me timbers. >> it's clearly not easy for them. >> why? i don't want to know why, i don't care about donald trump. this is about them now. >> we have been having this conversation for six years. >> no, no, this is different. terminating the conversation. let me give you a two-week scenario, john heilemann, anti-semitism, kanye, nick fuentes, january 6th, do you need like a story board to help you understand, are core values getting spit on week by week, month by month, day by day by this sick, cruel, fascist, and then he talks about terminating our constitution, john heilemann, and these republicans have their moment. they're in a corner. are they going to step out of it? >> no, this is my point. the point i'm trying to make is i have watched the show for the

last six years. donald trump, this point has been made. i know it's bad. for me, at least, i'm aware how bad the last two weeks have been. there was an insurrection that happened two years ago, and that was also a way of asking to have the constitution thrown out, only there was a violent mob assembled to do it for him. republicans didn't watch away then. we've said this for a long time. to me, the question is this, what has been demonstrated consistently time and time again over the course o. last six -- course of the last six years, there's no bottom for republicans. they would never do it on principle because it's wrong, because they thought trump had done something so bad they couldn't tolerate it. there's no red line over which trump can step. the only question throughout all of it was would there ever come a point that trump was so politically toxic that they would see their political selves, imperilled.

that would be the thing. not principle, pure pragmatic. they were going to lose. let me finish. >> oh, really, okay. >> if they were going to lose, and now i think we have the answer to that, too, mika, which is it doesn't matter. he is politically toxic, and they are going to lose because of trump. so there is no bottom. >> how about this, how about if it garrett haake and run up to the microphone, mr. jordan, elise stefanik, who went to harvard, i think she's got a brain. i think she does read. we could start there, and say miss stefanik, congressman stefanik, or congressman jordan, do we want to go back to january 6th, do we want to go back to s hole countries, do we want to go back to muslim bans. do we want to go to charlottesville. you only have a short-term memory, do we want to go back to january 6th. do we really want to go back to

that. your guy is talking about terminating the constitution. can you denounce it? >> he's private citizen, he says a lot of things. >> can you support him as a presidential candidate. >> he's not going to be a presidential candidate, mika. >> denounce. >> when the voters speak, i'll make that determination later. >> what does that make people who can not say to terminate the constitution is to terminate america, and we cannot support. >> mika, you and your left wing agenda as you attack me. >> i'm for american democracy. i'm for our constitution. that's what we're arguing here. >> the former president talked about terminating the constitution. there's nothing left about this. >> are we being ourselves. >> you're still one of those loser republicans who have no backbone who want to go down the toilet with the country as donald trump tries to demolish everything we have built.

>> i've always had a lot of faith in the republican voters. as of right now, that the man, he doesn't hold any official position in the republican party. he's not the head of the party. he's not an elected official. he's a retiree in florida. republican voters, i have a lot of faith in them. >> john heilemann does that better than the republicans. i think it would work if they did it like john heilemann did. >> am i missing something? >> i do think and this will be a controversial statement. i give ron desantis a little leeway because i think he is the chance republicans have to defeat donald trump. and so ron desantis has to play this game. i give him some leeway. everybody else, i think not only

does it not -- is it not morally courageous, is it unpatriotic, i just think it doesn't work. if you go back and i think it was congressman joyce's interview with george steph -- stephanopoulos. the republican congressman sounds smart, moderate, thoughtful. he's getting tripped up, trying to have it both ways. trying to be a thoughtful serious conservative, but also he won't actually condemn donald trump when donald trump wants to overthrow the constitution. and my advice to republicans is it just doesn't work. you either -- donald trump will not allow you to live in this space. there is a space that they try to walk. they try to walk the fine line of being -- i'm going to condemn what trump says but also defend his policies. marc short did that on "meet the press" yesterday as well. it doesn't work.

it's impossible. donald trump will not allow you to live in that space. and so don't try to be cute. don't try to have it both ways. you can't. you try to please everybody, you'll please nobody. you have to condemn donald trump. and what he said, because it's obviously indefensible. >> matt, i agree, you can't give him any leeway, he being donald trump, but why are you saying that you give ron desantis a pass? let's remember now, ron desantis has governor of florida is the one that wants to ban certain books, wants critical race theory out of education, even though it's not in education, in florida. lgbtq. he can stan up on all of these issues but can't stand up to a man in his state who has dinner

with an anti-semite and holocaust denier. how will he be an alternative if he can stand up to everybody else but can't stand up to donald trump. he becomes this power house of people in culture wars and a punk to donald trump. >> i think the question is do you believe that donald trump is uniquely bad or do you believe ron desantis would be a more efficient, competent authoritarian? i think there's room for debate there. there's one person in my lifetime that's tried to overturn an election, and tried to stop a free and fair election and the peaceful transfer of power. that one person is donald trump. i view trump as a unique threat. i also think that it's not enough to say, well, joe biden or kamala harris is going to stop donald trump in the general election. there could be a -- you know,

joe biden could trip the week before the election. there could be a recession the week before the 2024 general election. not only do i want to take back the republican party but i also want to stop trump from getting one step away from being the president again. how do we do that? to be honest with you, i would love a world where liz cheney could be our republican nominee, where i could support liz cheney. henry olson, a columnist at "the washington post" did a piece last week where he broke down the republican electorate. 30% maga, people who will vote for trump no matter what, 30% trump adjacent. it's about 30% old school, old guard, and 10% never trumper. i'm somewhere in the never trump old guard category i would imagine. i think when you do the math, what you come up with is liz cheney can't win. larry hogan can't win.

asa hutchinson can't win. one or two people might stop donald trump from being the republican nominee. glenn youngkin has an outside chance but ron desantis is clearly the front runner for that, so based on all of that. it's a long answer and i apologize. this is a strategic decision. >> i think it's a really important moment in our history. and this is what we have seen over the past six years. that actually matters. we have experience with this person who has exhibited fascist tendencies over and over again, and we have seen the result of that. we have witnessed it. and i feel like jonathan lemire, every republican needs to be put on the record about this, exactly about how they feel about donald trump's comments on terminating parts of the constitution. >> whether it be presidential candidates or incoming members of the soon to be majority, and

mitch mcconnell should be asked would you vote for him in 2024, and he said he would, even though he has condemned things he's done since that. katty kay you spent a lot of time on the road talking to maga voters. do you think anything would have changed for them in the wake of the dinner with the nazi, and do you think they're hearing about it through the right wing media. as of last week, fox news wasn't talking about the kanye west dinner. >> a lot of people i spoke to don't watch fox anymore. for them, fox is part of the mainstream media, and they don't trust what they hear on fox. they're getting all of their information from internet sites that, you know, they share amongst each other. facebook posts they share amongst each other. it's not clear how much they

heard about any of this. as for throwing out the constitution, that will be the new thing in that 30%. they will want to throw out the constitution. but there was certainly supporters of former president trump who were more open to listening to other ideas and would have been put off, as mika says, it's been two weeks of intensity. two weeks of kanye west, nick fuentes throwing out the constitution. it's been a lot. and for some of them, that level of drama is what they would like to avoid, and they would look to somebody like desantis, and you have the losses from the midterm elections. there are people focused on winning, and i think the message that trump doesn't win is actually the most powerful for those people who are trump adjacent. >> there's new polling that shows voters from both major parties are in agreement on something. and our country's democracy is under attack. for those numbers, let's bring

in long time campaign strategist, and executive director of georgetown's director of public service, mola lenghi, what are you finding, given the story, a question of civility versus division. >> it's fascinating and the story is a great example of this. americans -- our poll reinforces a bunch of other polls on that fact. but where we are seeing more and more division is why. and we're seeing a correlation between partisanship, where people get their information, and why they think democracy might be under attack. there are a couple of reasons. we tested a number of reasons why people say democracy is being threatened. a couple of them people

overwhelmingly agree is a bad thing for democracy, like an increasing threat of political violence, an erosion of civility and respect in politics. people agree across ideological spectrum. but maybe one of the most stark examples of this is the conversation over voting. democrats overwhelmingly believe that voter suppression and intimidation is a threat to democracy. republicans not so much. on the flip side, rens overwhelmingly believe that voter fraud is a huge threat to democracy. democrats and independents don't really see that. and so what we're seeing is that while everyone believes democracy is under threat. they tend to blame the other side. they tend to not agree on why.

our argument is until we truly understand some of the distinctions, we're going to have trouble reestablishing trust in our institutions. >> mo it's john heilemann here. i'm looking at the poll, and the extreme threats to democracy. playing on the same theme. increasing violent behavior, 74%. i'm going to bet that's over weighted towards overwhelmingly driven by democrats who say violent behaviors on the part of right wing nationalists,age -- agitators. and biassed news coverage, 67%. i'm going to hold up the "new york post." there's hunter biden. this is the story that we're talking about in another way. donald trump talking about collusion between big tech, the mainstream media, and the democrats and the biden crime

family, in particular as he likes to call it. that's what the right sees. they think the threat to democracy, at least very high on the list is us, basically, we're the problem. how the liberals think about that issue, and what do we do with that problem when you have something that's a very high ranking threat to democracy, and both sides agree but don't agree what the substance of the threat is. >> it's interesting. when you break down the cross tabs on the question, when we tested two different questions that we thought was really interesting. 2/3 of the country thinks that's a serious threat to democracy. it's driven by high numbers among republicans, and pretty high numbers among independents, a little bit less than democrats. democrats think it's a problem but not nearly to the same extent that republicans do. on the flip side, we asked how big of a problem do you think

social media that reinforces what people believe is. how big of a threat is that to democracy. pretty significant. almost 2/3 of the country believe that that is a serious threat to democracy. but that is driven primarily by overwhelming numbers by democrats, and some independents, and still a majority, but far less a majority of republicans. again, people are not only breaking down along partisan lines but where they get their information. how they get their information. again, bloefg that not only are the sources of information biassed, but then accepting the biases of the concerns they already have. >> georgetown university's mo elathe, thank you very much. and the sources of information, people who are out there in the

media world with a very large voice. you write right wing hosts saving kanye, but he's too far gone. give us a sense of where we are in terms of the conversation out there, given the fact that kanye west has done what he's done, and there were those who still trying to save him, and he doubles down on hitler. >> this happened twice in the last week or so. he was on a podcasters show, a guy named tim poole, and tim poole started off trying to sort of agree with kanye in the sense, he said, i think they're out to get you, you know, and kanye said what do you mean, they. and tim poole said i think they are the establishment media, and of course kanye wanted him to say it was the globalists, the jewish cabal that kanye

believes. and tim poole refused to take the bait. and kanye goes on alex jones' show, a guy who said the newtown massacre didn't happen. he has said horrific things, and he's trying to throw kanye a lifeline. i know you don't really mean that you're a nazi. i know you done like hitler, you like the hugo boss outfits. those uniforms were pretty sharp. and kanye is like, i really do like the guy, and so it is unbelievable. when alex jones is the voice of reason, when alex jones is trying to throw you a lifeline. when the guy who thinks this mass shooting didn't happen is trying to help you, and you say, no, no, no, hold my beer, i'm going to go even further, you may have gone to another level,

and just to put it in context, of course, kanye west is now someone who has had dinner the other week with donald trump at mar-a-lago, and donald trump, you know, is running for president, so just to underscore how crazy things are and, you know, of course obviously the serious normalization. kanye west is or was a billionaire, an incredibly famous hip hop artist. he's mainstreaming and normalizing anti-semitism, and donald trump is also doing it by virtue of helping to give him a platform. the new incoming prime minister of israel was on the "meet the press," and he talked about the kanye west comments and also the dinner at mar-a-lago. take a look. >> you don't praise hitler. how can you praise hitler? hitler was the greatest mass killer of all time. anybody who praises him is wrong. and anybody who gives him legitimacy, and i've said as

much, and i'll continue to say it. >> let me say president trump did great things for israel. he recognized jerusalem as our capital, long overdue since king david proclaimed it as such 3,000 years old. he recognized sovereignty of the goland heights, got out of the disastrous iran deal, which would have paved iran with gold. he has done great things and i appreciate it, and i remain appreciative. on this matter on kanye west and that other unacceptable guest, i think it's not unacceptable. it's just wrong, and i hope he sees his way to staying out of it, and condemning it. >> i mean, rev, at least he could do that. >> the least he could do is that. mad, when i look at your column, the point that sticks out to me, i have been a minister all my

life. you can't help somebody that doesn't want help or doesn't think they need help. kanye doesn't think what he is saying is wrong. he thinks he needs to help us, and then that is reinforced by donald trump and others that have the mainstream, and he was president of the united states, giving him an audience, and he went to meet with donald trump to ask donald trump to run as his vice president on his ticket. kanye west said you ought to run with me on my ticket. don't we have to have somebody that wants help. praising adolph hitler. adolph hitler advocated white aryan. he's wrong no matter what. we're talking about somebody that's way beyond wanting to seek help here. >> that's right. i think donald trump and elon musk and kanye west all fit into

this category of people who have been wildly rich and successful for decades now. i don't know when the last time is someone told them no, no, you can't do that, and was able to stop them from doing something. absolutely power corrupts, absolutely. and i think we have now these people who have convinced themselves that because they're brilliant in one area. people think kanye is a genius in the music realm. because you're great in one area doesn't mean you know everything else, including politics. they have reinforced over and over, nobody tells them no, and they get these radical, crazy ideas, and it's so irresponsible. with great power comes great authority. thech a major platform, and they

are very influential, and i think that sadly with kanye specifically, the anti-semitism, there will be people that say, this is okay now. it's cool now. it no longer stigmatized. we can go there. it invites other people who want to go there too. it's incredibly dangerous, and other than kanye getting back on his meds, i don't know what the answer is. deprive him of oxygen. this is a legitimate story. part of it is maybe a media story. >> matt lewis, thank you very much for being on this morning. and we still got to get to georgia. still ahead on "morning joe," it's the eve of georgia's high stakes senate runoff, and early voting has smashed records. we're breaking down where the race stands ahead of tomorrow's election. plus, a look at the impact young voters had on the 2022 midterms, and how democrats can seize on the momentum ahead of

2024. and diversity, culture, and entertainment. there's a lot to love about new york city. new york magazine has been keeping track for 18 years now. we'll talk to the magazine's editor and chief about this year's edition. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ching "morn" we'll be right back. the freestyle libre 2 system. with a painless, one-second scan, i know my glucose numbers without fingersticks. now, i'm managing my diabetes better, and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. take the mystery out of managing your diabetes and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free at freestylelibre.us

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find your beat talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. your moment of calm find your potential then own it support your immune system with a potent blend of nutrients and emerge your best every day with emergen-c it's watson, he can fly. he can fly to the end zone, touchdown, green bay. >> it's third down, is it jefferson time. cousins throws, caught. jefferson, touchdown minnesota. >> a couple pumps, going deep for a.j. brown. he has got it. touchdown philadelphia. >> what a punt here. breaks a couple of tackles. jones still going, maintains his balance, it's a foot race.

peoples, jones will jersey shore. the fake, rolls right, for the end zone, it is caught. metcalf. >> tua tagovailoa, it is a touchdown. >> bottom of the screen. going the other way, and higgins, and he dives for the touchdown. he is in the zone, and he is feeling it. >> fleet flicker. going to throw it deep. has a man open. devonte adams, touchdown. >> and those were some of the biggest touchdowns scored by winning teams across the nfl yesterday. sunday night football featured the cowboys hosting the indianapolis colts. the cowboys turned a close game into a blow out with 33 unanswered points scored if the final quarter, leading by just three, entering the fourth.

quarterback dak prescott tossed his third touchdown of the game and four dallas take aways all turned into touchdowns. the cowboys beat the colts, 54-19. elsewhere in the nfc east, the new york giants and washington commanders finished in a 20-20 tie. the giants' performance might not land them on the list of the biggest reasons to love new york. let's find out what the other reasons are as highlighted by the new edition of new york magazine, the 18th annual reasons to love new york issue with the over arching theme of the city's comeback following the devastating covid pandemic. joining us now, editor and chief of new york magazine, david haskell. we haven't seen each other since before covid. i guess that makes sense. what's topping the list of the reasons to love new york.

>> though in many ways, we're a national magazine. once a year we decide in december to put this issue out. it's a special issue. an 18th edition. somewhat of a love letter to the city or holiday card, and a way to look back on how the city has fared throughout the year. two years ago we did it different. we called it reasons we love new york, and it was a very somber wake basically for 500, we tracked down 500 businesses, restaurants, bars, gyms that had closed throughout the pandemic and gave little tributes to them. we were making the issue in our bedrooms and closets and figuring our way through a completely remote close, and it seemed to us this year, a mark of how far we are in our experience in this pandemic that overwhelming feeling was of busyness, jostling, bustling

city, and so starting with the cover, it's sometimes difficult to wrangle a celebrity to be on the cover but we decided to do here was to invite 72 notable new yorkers to join us on the cover. and the concept was the feeling that feels specific to new york, walking down the street with a friend and crossing an intersection, hey, isn't that, and maybe it's you or maybe it's chuck schumer. we invited many people to an intersection in the meat packing district, and a phenomenal photographer stationed above on the high line. he spent the day. there were black cars bringing in one new yorker after another. and photographed them bouncing from one part of the intersection to the other. and our director of photography and her whole team were traffic policing, and the way this photographer works, he layers images on top of others.

this was shot seven days ago, and took about seven days of post production work to make sure we're placing paul rudd in the right spot, and alex cass and spike lee in the right spot. >> there's an interesting tone. i'm looking at some of new york magazine's top reasons to love new york, for discussion, and you wrote we started treating the subway like our living room again. no matter where you live, new yorkers can help you get an abortion and pay for it too. >> it's always important to look at politics and social issues, and the role the city plays in the national context. we are often writing stories that are fairly urgent stories about immigration and social issues. guy issues, abortion issues and so the two that were the most moving to us this year were that story of how meaningful the city has been in a national context

for people looking to get an abortion that couldn't get it elsewhere and the amount of grass roots local support to help make that happen, and there's a touching story about a woman who has been working with bussed in migrants and having no idea where to go, and she has been basically adopting them into her home, and it was just really us an interesting slice of life. not just at the policy level but a kind, decent new yorker helping them get a leg up on a new city. >> this is the 18th edition of the this list. in any previous year, had you said this, you would have been deemed insane, even laguardia, talk about the evolution of the airport, all new yorkers have loved to hate. >> have you been? >> it's nicer now it's pretty

interesting. i guess we landed on ritsy, glamorous felt too much. but serviceable. >> an upgrade from what it was. >> you can move around it pretty well. >> if you're used to the old laguardia, it's small. >> it was important to point out just the engineering marvel. they didn't shut it down when they built on top of it a new one. >> that is a marvel. >> and you can see driving by the last couple of years, it was sort of like working in ground zero keeping the one train running. it's incredible how the city manages public works projects. >> this started in 2005. right i was at the magazine then, and part of the reason it started, in some ways, a magazine feature could be a big service feature. a list of things. but the other thing that was happening then, and this leads to my question about what's happening now, it was very much

i thought when it was first when adam and the team who were around even then thought this up, it was new york had gone, come through 9/11, and the notion of there was a larger story behind reasons to love, which was like people kind of the city teetered at 9/11, and then there was this burst of energy, and some of it was the return of finance. some of it was the lake shore east side rock scene, meet me in the bathroom era. the city's comeback was kind of encapsulated in that. i wonder, as the editor of a thing like this. clever, interesting things to point out about what's going on in the city. is there a bigger story of what's happening to new york in the post pandemic era. people thought, new york could be dead. what does this add up to and the big theme of it all. >> it starts right there, and says that the city is just so

far from dead. it is alive. what does that mean, though, it really does not look like mike bloom berg city, and i think we might find in a historical way, de blasio city was sort of a transition. what we live in right now is a little bit dirtier a little bit more confusing, you have a sort of, you know, high energy rambunctious, hard to keep track of where his head is at mayor, a lot of sort of tawdry tabloid scandals. it feels to me in a lot of ways, a new york city i grew up in, not the one i spent my career editing in. but to me, what i think is valuable about taking stock in a year like this, and just say look around. it's, you know, just absurd to imagine the city had somehow failed to survive the pandemic years. it will evolve, and just as, you know, there are conversations about we will never build

skyscrapers after 9/11, and i felt a little bit of that as we were talking about midtown, and you know, of course there are some office jobs that have turned remote or hybrid. you walk around the blocks we're at right now, and it's just clear to me that this is a place that many people want to be, and that plays out in really kind of weird and often high friction ways, and that's a lot of what new york's about. >> new york magazine's 18th annual reasons to love new york issue is out now. editor-in-chief david haskell. good to see you again. haven't seen you since precovid. we are looking at the leadership race for house republicans as a handful of gop members are threatening to block kevin mccarthy's bid to become speaker. and we'll be joined by the former u.s. ambassador to finland who just got a firsthand look at the dire situation for ukrainians and what they face heading into winter. we'll also update the

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once you get past the winter, the question is what will the counter offensive look like potentially in the spring and in march in that area. we expect that frankly both militaries are going to be in a situation where they're going to be looking to try to refit, resupply, in a sense reconstitute so that they're kind of prepared for that counter offensive but we actually have a fair amount of skepticism as to whether or not the russians will be, in fact, prepared to do that. and i think, yeah, more optimistically for the ukrainians in that time frame. >> that is the director of national intelligence avril haynes. russia is running at a reduced tempo in its war in ukraine, and added that ukrainian forces could have brighter prospects in the coming months.

for several weeks, russia has focused on attacking ukraine's key infrastructure which has led to wide scale blackouts and a lack of access to heat and clean water for civilians. katty kay, the one other thing, though, that might be so, well, will be unbelievably difficult for ukrainians is the winter ahead. >> yeah. i mean, especially with, you know, it's getting cold. they don't have much supplies of energy. the russians are hitting their critical infrastructure in terms of energy supply. they are facing these blackouts. look, it's very difficult for ukrainians at the moment, but i thought avril haines comments were interesting. she knows everyone listens carefully to every word the head of dni says, for her to say she feels more optimistic about ukrainians' chances compared to the russian chances is significant. the other thing she said that i thought was interesting, they are getting intelligence, the u.s. is getting intelligence that vladimir putin is actually getting a more clear picture now

of what is happening and how bad it is for his troops on the front line. he was kind of protected from that early on in the stages of war. the yes men around him were telling him only good news, but avril haines was saying, no, we think now he's getting a real picture of that, and you're seeing british intelligence over the weekend saying, look, they are getting indications that the russian public is very quickly losing its support for this war. they're losing patience with the war. you can see from combining what the british intelligence are saying, the american intelligence are saying over this weekend that vladimir putin is under a lot of pressure, and how that impacts the war, we don't know exactly, but it's interesting to hear that she feels it's more optimistic looking forward ukrainians come the spring. >> this is part of the front with the intelligence and the assessment. they did in the days before the war. they have throughout. also interesting the sources i speak to echoed what the dni

said that they feel like winter will slow down the fighting and the ukrainian military has the upper hand and in good position for the spring which is part of the reason why there's preliminary conversations about eventual negotiations with vladimir putin. president biden hinted at that last week and said nato allies need to be consulted and putin needs to be there to talk peace and see a path perhaps springtime when the conversations could begin. a lot straight ahead on "morning joe" including the developing story from moor county, north carolina, where schools are closed and the fbi and state authorities investigate gun attacks on two energy substations that could leave residents without power for days. "morning joe" will be right back. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment

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time far lookal the morning papers. in maryland "the daily times" reporting the governor will make a decision next month whether he will run for president in 2024. he launched a political action committee and raising money. he said next year i will talk to my family, my friends and determine how i can best serve our great nation. in georgia, "the ledger inquirer" covering the surge of covid-19 cases. hospitalizations last week reached the highest levels in three months with more than 35,000 patients treated across the country. nearly every state reported an increase in cases last week. battle creek reports on michigan state university's effort to address the teacher shortage. reducing the length of the

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still seeing a new interview with him every day? also, explain the 80-foot christmas tree outside of nbc. >> there is that. welcome back to "morning joe." it's nice. we'll get into the christmas spirit. >> we are. >> are we? yeah? do you like the republican role playing? >> nothing better playing stefanik. >> plays it too well. >> scary. >> great way to start the week. >> okay. welcome back to "morning joe." monday, december 5th. jonathan, reverend al, john. georgia, early record voting in the runoff. the battle between incumbent democrat warnock and challenger walker will be decided tomorrow. peter alexander has the latest.

>> reporter: in georgia hours to go before the nation's final midterm election. >> are you read to win this election? >> reporter: with tworm's critical runoff between democratic senator warnock and his republican challenger herschel walker. >> got to do it together and that's how we're going to win. >> reporter: neither candidate reached the threshold with warnock winning by 37,000 votes. out of nearly 4 million cast. georgians shattered early voting records. including more than 77,000 who did not vote in november's contest. it is a chaotic campaign with walker facing new allegations of domestic abuse. in an interview sheryl said she had a five-year relationship with walker alleging he attacked

her in 2005. >> had his hand on my throat and chest and then he leaned back to throw a punch and luckily i was able to avoid that. >> reporter: asked why she decided to come forward now -- >> i have to say what i know. i have to tell the herschel i know. >> reporter: nbc news spoke with three individuals who say she told them about that episode in the past before walker was a candidate for senate. the campaign has not responded to nbc news's request for comment and walker ignored questions over the weekend but faced other domestic abuse allegations from ex-wife and son and said he threatened to kill them. the campaign denied the allegations. walker acknowledged suffering from mental health issues. warnock tried to capitalize on

the momentum with high-profile events appearing with former president obama. >> we'll bring it on home. let's make this happen, georgia. >> that was peter alexander reporting. so, john heilemann, the early voting looks strong. hard to tell which way this will go. it seems like herschel walker at least might be growing on some people in the state of georgia that he is unfit and might be cases where they can't vote for him. >> yeah. without predicting, there's no question that when nevada ended up in the democratic hands and the senate got locked in for democrats that the concern and people in warnock's world was that if the stakes were not -- the senate was not on the line that they would have a problem with turnout and the challenge has been how do we make sure to

get the turnout especially with black voters with democrats having control of the senate. warnock campaign two years ago and a good campaign in this period of trying to hammer this point about -- you would think we're like walker is not qualified but voters i think shrugged and assumed that somehow either would win and the stakes are no longer the united states senate per se but someone in office who is not qualified and the biggest stat this morning is that it is not just the democrats overrepresented in the early vote but statistic that of people that are coming out now and persuaded by the warnock campaign.

maybe not all of them but this focus on this is how bad this guy is. are you going to put him in the united states senate. seems to have worked. we don't know. we'll see what happens with the turnout on election day but seems like a strong position to close this thing out. >> rev, talk to me about african american vote in georgia. i feel like even with biden running for president was like let's let the people of south carolina tell america what they think of the candidates and went very differently but these candidates could not be more different. one with two far right white guys next to him propping him up and then you have another who's very different. >> no. clearly they're very different but i think that it is very important to look at what the

warnock campaign did and that is they let herschel walker be exposed to who and what he was. aside from the scandals, putt that aside, just his inability to deal with issues, articulate policy became embarrassing and stand him between two very conservative white guys and can't deliver a good message there with coaching. i do a syndicated radio show and get calls from georgia. >> yeah. what are you hearing it? >> hearing it from the ground. people saying this is embarrassing. can you imagine this man on the senate floor? yes, we disagree with tim scott who's a black republican but at least he is somebody that feel understands the legislation and understands the policy. you don't think herschel even

understands what we're talking about. we can't afford this. i'm getting this all over the place. >> if walker were to lose, another piece of damage on the republican party by trump. >> like you need more? >> trump is so unpopular in georgia he won't campaign there. >> "morning joe" reporter went to atlanta over the weekend to talk about the key issues for them. take a look. >> i feel like my vote counts because i understand the gravity of the situation. >> 50-50. sometimes people may feel like this is never going to change so i don't want to try to change it. >> reporter: do you feel like your vote makes a difference? >> i definitely do. >> past two election cycles and shows how close and important my vote does matter. >> 100 years my grandmother could not vote. we understand that voting is a

privilege and something to exercise and encourage others. >> reporter: do you feel like the vote counts? >> i think so. >> reporter: what are the issues you go to the ballot box and find important that affect you and the community? >> people that has been falling to gun violence and victims of it. >> due to violence in the city. >> reporter: what are the issues you find important? >> women's reproduction rights. affordable housing. student debt relief. criminal justice reform. >> recession is a factor. i go to the grocery store and buying ten items and $150. the money we make isn't increasing but the expenses are. and people putting the groceries on payment plans. that's insane. >> the way that police treat minorities. >> we believe like for me reproductive justice is a

most -- an issue that drove me out to the ballot and that was a borderline issue for some peers but like guns and the economy is still kind of moderate on the issues. >> at the top of the list i say a women's right to choose. >> reporter: is that why you're voting for? >> absolutely. that's in front of my mind. i think that's a fundamental right that women should have and protected. >> it is important that every woman remains their right to abortions. >> reporter: will you vote in the runoff? >> i am. this is an intense election here and i -- this isn't the presidential election and know electric ral college involved so every vote does count. >> reporter: what can candidates be doing better? >> i think like doing what you guys are doing. coming into areas, talking to people. letting them know what they are about. anything. i haven't seen a candidate ever

since i've been in georgia. >> reporter: never seen a candidate. >> like come to a local place and do a -- >> reporter: you voted in the midterms? >> yes. >> reporter: voted for warnock? >> yes. >> reporter: what about the governor race? >> abrams. >> reporter: you seem excited to go. >> i am. >> reporter: you are active in voting. part of an organization that actually gets people out to vote. but do you think that's a sentiment that people in the community also share? like, will people at your school, friends and family getting excited for this runoff election? is it something they feel like is important? >> my friends are voting and informed be going in the perimeter of the groups meeting people in other social circles

there isn't that passion. as someone that's black and queer there are not people that i relate to. people like walker's pro-life plans more and emboldened by the faith views. >> if you a democrat, republican, i never paid attention to the parties. i really was like whoever good fit for the country. >> i feel like i can definitely be swayed why it is a culture thing to go with what we usually go with. if there's someone in the republican party to make a change i feel like it. >> reporter: while the youth vote in atlanta swayed left the voters i spoke to are more focused on issues than party lines. >> thank you. let's bring in director of polls at harvard and author of

"fight." as we focus on georgia and this runoff election which will be decided tomorrow, you write that for young people stressed and sickened by the thoughts of democracy slipping away young americans across lines banded together to help save the democrats from what many foresaw as a sidible midterm defeat. have they turned out before to this degree? do you foresee the same thing happening in georgia? >> thank you. an excellent piece by daniella. i think the lesson from the piece and from the midterms a few weeks ago is that republicans can win elections without talking to young voters. democrats can't win without mobilizing young voters.

so much was on the line. when we had the difference that young people could see with trump in office. that with the mobilization of young people around parkland. that changed the game. we have seen 2018, 2020. and now this midterm election turnout we hadn't seen in 40 or 50 years. they are turning out in numbers we shouldn't be surprised anymore because it's a new era in 2018. >> the issues that we saw daniella talking to the young people about, it is right -- their lives. the rights. their future coming to climate change. issues like that seem to be actually motivating them to not only get to the polls in a major election but to know that the midterms exist and act on it. >> there's a new sense -- the first focus group i did this

year with the harvard opinion project included a number of young of color from georgia complaining that government wasn't moving as quickly as they would like. i said why vote? they said it's my responsibility. we need to vote. the only way to create change. what we found in the harvard polling on a national basis among young african americans, young blacks by 2 to 1 margin compared to whites they care about gun control and violence and student debt and cost of living so the piece is very much a lined with the youth electorate. i think president obama speaking in georgia also elevates the message in terms of the system can work. if younger people participate we can find the solutions to the

challenges that have been facing young people and of course the community for generations. >> i also saw in that piece and what you have been saying something reflected that i have been watching and voting among young people in the black community is they care about more than just racial issues because in the past black voters say i care about this, that and the other. continued inequality. young voters care about criminal justice and crime and gun violence and inflation and i think that it is evolving of the black community that we can talk in a post obama era we are concerned about a broad array of issues and talk as americans and coming through with the gen-z

african american community. >> i think so. one of the things that makes me so optimistic about this country is especially black folks and young people and historically black colleges around atlanta voting for themselves and those vulnerable than themselves. the young man to protect a women's right to choose. the young women voting because the grandmothers didn't have the right a couple generations ago. that's emblematic of gen-z. >> director of pollingal harvard institute of politics, thank you. we'll have you back to see what happens in georgia coming down to the wire. joining us is congressman pete aguilar of california elected by the colleagues last woo ek to serve in the next congress as chair of the house democratic caucus. the party's number three position. congratulations on the new position. jonathan lemire has the first

question for you. >> good morning. the new role and the new congress, let's start with a very busy lame deck session for the next few weeks. talk about the priorities here particularly on funding for covid. the white house has a $10 billion public health request and aid to ukraine before the republicans take control. >> thank you for having me. good to see you again. this is the important priority for december. we need to work with reasonable republicans to fund the government. that's what we can and should do. this is something that we have worked on for months. chair rosa delora did an amazing job but now we need action and republicans to work to set a top line number with us in the senate but we need to fund the government operations which

includes as you mentioned covid relief dollars as well as ukraine aid. that is an important piece and time and time again what we have heard recently where republicans want to condition ukraine aid. we need to do everything we can to stand up to the authoritarianism of russia and make sure that ukraine has the resources that they need. >> about the ukraine aid we did hear from kevin mccarthy that there would be no longer a blank check for the united states to kyiv as a terrible winter sets in there and civilians suffering so greatly. how will you push for funding that kyiv says they need? >> over $30 billion in aid that the administration requested this month. it is important that that becomes a priority and members on the other side of the aisle

supportive of this. he has his far flank that is telling him no never and won't help ukraine. maybe because they are supportive of the russians. i don't know. it is important that we get this work done this month working with reasonable republicans. if we can find them we'll work with them on funding government, macking sure that ukraine has the resources they need. >> this is john heilemann. congratulations. one of the things happening in as we headed to election day and the midterms was mounting concern among democrats about slippage with latino voters. i'm curious what you think in the aftermath of the election what the state of the party is in connection to that very important constituency and what

your appointment and election signals about the importance of that constituency to the party and to latinos to have you in there. >> from an electoral perspective we had amazing success and grounded in the reality that house democrats understand latino community is not a monolith. you can't use the same talking points but the political success was incredibly noteworthy. we have new members of congress elected in what was supposed to be the red wave in southern new mexico. these are new members. new members in areas where latinos have not had representation at the highest

levels of government. honored to have them come here and work with us as colleagues. broadly my story is very similar to millions of people across this country. my parents and grandparents grew up here. my dad shined shoes as a kid. sneaking out of the house on route 66 downtown san bernardino and shining shoes for a couple extra bucks. he put himself -- worked almost 40 years for a local utility. that's the american dream. my shoes can walk in the halls of congress. that's the story of this country and not unique to the latino community and millions of people working hard so the kids have an opportunity behind them. >> congressman pete aguilar of california, thank you so much for being on this morning. we appreciate it.

more on the fallout of donald trump calling to terminate the constitution. "the washington post" ruth marcus say it is comments are too dangerous to ignore. we'll read from her new piece. starting today a european union price cap on russian oil goes into effect. what that means for the price you pay at the pump. you are watching "morning joe."

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"the washington post" ruth marcus has a piece called "trump's call for suspended the constitution is too dangerous to ignore" and say he suggested suspending the constitution in the belief that he won the election and that its results are subject to change. by the way, guys, he knows he lost. he is doing what he is doing

which is fascism and took an oath to defend the constitution now has hijacked the great founders in the service of the mania. no. this is insurrectionism by social media. nothing and certainly not imaginary fraud capitalized or not allows for the termination of constitutional guarantees. trump is laying the groundwork for a coup. the mere willingness to entertain the action is alarming coming from a man seeking to return to office. hello. we don't want to give him oxygen yet we dare not ignore him. this is one. it should be neither excused or forgotten. it is important to put a frame around what donald trump said and ask every republican to tell us where they stand on this. >> now wants to termination the

constitution. that's a campaign kickoff. the silence from republicans is telling and a few that have been willing to talk off the record said trump just says things. he exaggerates. but we have been here before. trump says a lot of things but that same attitude is what got us to january 6. we all remember the days after the 2020 elections and republicans saying in "the washington post" let's give him a few days. what's the harm? we know the harm is. assault on american democracy and assault at the u.s. capitol and suggesting to go further. is there anything outside the usual voices that gives you hope that this time will be different for any other republican?

>> we are several days since he wrote it and not seen the uproar from the republican leadership but we should have seen. many of us i personally have known donald trump for years and felt he was on the wrong side and we disagreed with him and all and he is unhinged. he is only going to get worse. the narcissism has become deadly in terms of what he is encouraging. this is way over the top and i think only gets worse unless he is stopped. for him to within the same week the founders of oath keepers are convicted to call for the constitution to be set aside is a guy not even putting caution in his own way. he is outright advocating i'm with this and for the overthrow

of the government and the dare goes to the leaders of the republican party. >> exactly. i would do a tweak. this is who he is. who he's always been and took everybody and ourselves included to really realize how bad this was. it was too damn late. will we do this again? the question is for republican leaders. are you going to face that this is who he is or going to continue to walk with him because you right now stand between possibly our country and democracy becoming damaged or not. do you stand up for democracy? katty kay, the question should be asked to every republican, everybody minute of every day by every reporter to get in the presence of a republican leader

because these people have a chance to lead and quite frankly guide their supporters on the importance of the constitution, on the very framework of this democracy that got them elected and sometimes there is leading that needs to be done and they seem so weak and simple minded and quite frankly as if their brain has been washed by donald trump. >> if you want to look at a picture of republican awkwardness this weekend look at the sunday shows. there's also republican congressman joyce interviewed by george stephanopoulos and asked are you going to say you would support a candidate in favor of doing away with the u.s. constitution? all the congressman would say is he says a lot of things. they are -- >> no. >> pushed into a corner with this one.

i wonder if there isn't something about desperation on donald trump and looking at the polls with ron desantis ahead of him and beating trump, beating biden even in polls that are coming out and i imagine that this is causing trump a lot of consternation and tried that moderated rollout and tepid and low energy campaign announcement and got him criticism from the base and now trying to ramp up the extremism to get the base excited again? i don't know. does this smack to you what you see from trump as like i don't know how to get people excited about the candidacy. tried the normal guy thing and now i do something completely crazy and extreme on the political spectrum.

i don't know. i'm looking at the polls and the way he is reacting. >> it does feel completely unhinged. he is saying damn right i tried a coup and want to try it again have this will be the occasion for republicans to give major speeches saying this crosses the line. seditious. calling for the termination of the constitution. this seems to be the ultimate bright line. january 6 should have been. thee. this seems unambiguous. will they do all of this? i don't know. they have had many chances to take an off ramp but you could imagine someone like a mike

pence, mitch mcconnell, coming out saying that look we are all americans and conservatives. we are republicans who believe in the rule of law an constitution. this is too far. donald trump seems to be throwing stuff up against the wall and again i want to emphasize that this is extremely dangerous that he is doing this but it is also dangerous if republicans stay silent and by their silence acquiesce and normalize this kind of thought because we have seen the way the crazy ideas become normalized and accepted in the mainstream. if republicans do not take the off ranch and push back against this in some ways this is just as dangerous as donald trump's

tweet accepting and throwing out the constitution and having a coup is just -- well, that is just politic this is way and the way things are and that's going to be very difficult to unwind. coming up, when's in the run for "time's" person of the year when "morning joe" coming right back.

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president joe biden welcomed pop culture i kontos the white house to celebrated the 45th annual kennedy center honors including george clooney, gladys knight, amy grant, tonya leone and four members of the super

group u2 and also house speaker nancy pelosi was in attendance and husband paul making his first public appearance following the attack that happened inside his home and still recovering from the injures su stanned in the home invasion in san francisco october 28 and wore a hat to cover his bandages but there speaking at the event president biden highlighted the theme of we the people and praised each honore e for their work and impact on the world. >> u2 has spoke and sung about the unspeakable pain and suffering, denial of freedom and the inhumanity we inflict on one another as nations, people. all flowing from division that fo

manifestations lie in our hearts. at a moment when there's too much hate, too much anger here in america and around the world we have to remember today as their song goes, we are one but we are not the same. we goat carry each other. >> it is so good to see paul pelosi up and moving about and nancy says he is doing fine. they're so strong. live to atlanta next and the runoff could say a lot about the future of the republican party. "morning joe" is back in just a moment. trying to control my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪

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it can be seen as a dull knife, john. >> i would say oppressive. >> aren't you on tv, 11 or 12 hours a day? >> i don't know. what is it? welcome back to "morning joe," we're joining by award-winning actor bill nighy which plays a character in the new film "living." bill, you don't have to hear yourself. we have the same issue. and joe doesn't like to hear me, what's that? >> i'm not going -- >> let's move on. >> okay, with the conversation. bill, first of all, everybody, obviously he has an expansive multiaward-winning career and a lot of people know bill from "love actually." tell us about "living" and how it came about. >> "living" came about because i went to dinner with a wonderful producer steven worley with whom

i've made two films and the prize-winning novelist. he turned it into a british movie. and it must mean i was very, very good in a previous life. >> very good in a previous life. but also you've had such an incredible career. what drew you to the theme and this character. >> well, i was sort of presented to it, i'm drawn to it, it's about a couple things. it doesn't make it sound like it's a great night out, trust meer it's galvanizing. it's about procrastination. >> oh, avoidance. >> someone who procrastinates at an olympic level, i can put off anything you've got for as long as you've got. look at me. it's about somebody who dedicated his life in an institution designed to procrastinate. and he's given an ultimatum an do something about it. >> the key word,

procrastination, a lot of people practice avoidance in their lives. never getting to the heart of the matter of things that they need to do. and it can be crippling. jonathan lemire has the next question. >> i'll jump to it. i'll read the tag line. living asi story of a has been reduced to years of oppressive office regime to a shadow existence that turns his life into something wonderful. the idea, a japanese film, tell us what that means? >> well, they've obviously done something special. i don't watch it much, but it's caught fire. the film has caught fire. it's been released at home for a while in the united kingdom. you know, i get messages from people i went to school with, people i haven't heard from in 30 years, you know, you're in a hit. it's about -- i mean, what drew

me to it, having been presented with it, what i'm interested in, i'm interested the japanese and english, there have been parallels made they have a very complex system of manners which are very kind of overperformed. and in the 1950s it was even more extreme. you weren't really allowed to express anything. and you weren't supposed to trouble your fellow man with any troubles. therefore, you were in a kind of straitjacket in terms of behavior. i'm kind of interested in that. it means from an acting point of view you have to express in this film quite a lot with not very much. >> jonathan lemire, you can take the next question -- i mean heilemann. >> as noted, it's a repressive routine, it's a long show. >> he's the one that gets up for the 5:00 a.m. show that i refuse to be on. >> i'm curious, personally, why you don't like to see your own

work? is this another avoidance issue we need to address? >> almost certainly. i think it's a little late to address it. >> because it's such an amazing career, enough done so many incredible performances. why wouldn't you want to see that? >> right now, everything is fine, everybody seems to like it, if i watch it then -- >> you're superstitious. >> also, i have to go to work again. i have maybe an above-average difficulty of persuading myself. and there is no logic. and, you know, i'm -- i'm prepared to accept it as a form of dysmorphia. but whatever the weather, it's a practical, it's a practical thing. >> can't do it. >> there's one career choice, that rules out if you're obsessed with your own obsession, which is cable news. never able to be a cable news host. >> i'm sorry. >> that's fine. >> no, no, this table exempted,

i'm talking about others. >> well, we're kind of -- >> mika mentioned that, i've got to ask. 20th anniversary. >> oh, my gosh. >> it's right on the horizon. people are celebrating, there's going to be all kinds of people. >> i saw it for the first time last year, heilemann. >> and what did you think? >> i'm crying. >> there are people that loved this movie. people who find it odd that it's been such a -- >> yeah. >> there's a lot of darkness in it for kind of a holiday movie. what was the experience, did you expect -- working with richard curtis and people who have made films that resonated with people. but when you were making it did you realize it would have the cultural resonance it has. >> i don't know anyone is prepared for the language so much a part of christmas and people's lives. i think if i didn't mess it up, it would be i was in a hit,

because richard curtis had so many hits and the script was terrific. and world class jokes. and once i got into the pants, you know what i'm saying - so, bill -- >> the lycra pants. >> bill, i've got to ask you, for the 20th anniversary, are you going to watch "love actually." >> no. >> come on. >> depends how long it takes me to find the remote. you know what i mean, i do that. i scramble. no need for me to watch it. >> does it make you feel humble. you said you've done a lot of theater over time? >> yeah. >> are you more at home in the theater because it's not captured and then you go off? >> yeah, i like the fact that it

disappears directly ever the year. it's just so alarming. >> all right, final question to jonathan lemire. >> that's me. your next project "beautiful gains" a netflix film that centers around footballers who travel around to england to rome. >> beautiful game is called about the homeless world cup. it happens every year. 60 nations send a homeless team to the homeless world cup. one of the things about making the movie -- you can laugh, i play the coach of the english team. it's basically me and a bunch of maniacs in rome. all of the other, the japanese team, the canadian team, they've been homeless and they're rehabilitated and came i