presidency, after january six, but everything we've seen him do, after the indictments that are coming, january six committee report that's gonna come in two weeks, -- remind people just how bad he's been. they're not gonna do the right thing. why? because if he's denied the nomination, he may run as a third party candidate, which might hurt them in the general election. it just disabling yourself. you're inventing reasons not to do the right thing. and they're capable of doing that. of course, we've seen that over the last six, seven years. >> forget right thing. just self interest thing. i'm focusing on self interest here. bill crystal, thanks very much. appreciate it. >> thanks, chris. >> that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. >> good evening, chris. great shot tonight. >> you've got a big gust. excited to say. >> i do. he's on the set. but i'm not gonna reveal -- >> i'm not turning it! >> yeah. thank, you my friend. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. and what an hour at the shaping

up to be. tonight, we will be joined by my at indiana alvin brock who last year -- conviction of the trump on 17 counts. senator cory booker will be here to talk about senator raphael warnock's big win in georgia, and what it means for history and the democratic party. it will also be joined by former obama attorney general eric holder to discuss the once fringe legal theory that he says poses an existential threat to our democracy, it was argued today before the supreme court. but first, suits and swords and wrestling bouts. suits, swords, and wrestling about. stay with me here. when it comes to the swords, plural, i think we have a good idea which ones they were. most presidents make their first trips abroad to the countries that are physically closest to us, like canada or mexico. or, to get our closest allies, like the uk. but president trump backed that warm. he made the incredibly

unprecedented decision to make his debut trip abroad as president saudi arabia. and on his first day on that first trip, before attending a state dinner at a saudi royal palace, trump was greeted like these. with a ceremonial men only sword dance. it really is one of the best pieces of video to come out of the trump administration, and that's saying a lot. but it is also only -- we only photographic evidence we have of one of the sites that were gifted to president trump on that trip to saudi arabia. according to the official state department

>> he said he feels the case against the trump organization as, quote, one chapter in the book as far as this probe is concerned. joining us now is the man himself, alvin bragg. mr. district attorney, thank you for setting through the wrestling videos and the sword dances, but it was all of a piece, serving the point that you are one of the very few people in this country that have managed to hold mr. trump or at least his organizations accountable. >> thanks for having me. the wrestling video in particular was quite entertaining. >> well, we didn't shy away from playing it, shall we say that. what has stunned me in the case for which you got a jury to convict on all counts is the access of evidence that you have. can you tell me a little bit about some of these pieces that the viewing audience was treated to -- whoever when you specify. nevertheless, there is a memo signed an okayed by donald

trump reducing staffers salary by $72,000. one assumes, because he's gonna be getting other perks from the arctic denies asian. those checks for thousands of dollars signed with -- paying for the tuition of employees. are you surprised at the paper trail was this explicit? >> well, one of the great things about the jury trial, which is, you know, a centerpiece of our democracy, it's the laying bare of evidence and open court. so the public gets to see, in this instance, the inner workings of a 13-year scheme, which was no more than -- about greed, and cheating, all laid bare the inner workings of the trump organization. the rigor of the investigation -- was second to none. the public service that worked on this, built the case, certainly indebted to for what they brought. and lining up that evidence,

and presenting it in the court of law. leading to conviction. so, having worked on complex investigations for 20 plus years, we follow the facts, and that's what happened here. -- but not surprised and gratified that the genre sauce that we did -- in our workings of the trump organization on display. >> can you explain, as you understand it, what was the operating structure of this organization? >> well, fundamentally, the name is in the title. right? this is the trump organization. the true trump corporations that were on trial here. and, the core of the conduct was senior officials and the corporations being given benefits and not paying taxes on them, and the issue that the defense sort of really honed in

on was, okay, it's just those folks. this was not for the benefit of the corporation. that became a significant issue in the trial. muscling out so well, okay, who hired these folks? he went through the documents, and what was their level and very organization? these were high managerial -- and so, that, all of a piece put together, you know, obviously it wasn't in the jury room, but -- robotic the defense -- -- >> rogue cfo, someone who's reporting directly and literally in the -- >> isett yonder standing that it was effectively a culture of fraud that start from the top down? >> well, certainly in this instincts -- pettiness, that's quite a long period of time, and is engaged

in by people at the highest levels of the organization. so -- corporate liability -- a case against the corporations -- and so that's what this was about. we know at this point -- now we have a conviction. >> allen weisselberg was the star witness and all this. he's gonna face some jail time. he gave you a lot of information and exchange for a reduced jail sentence. can you tell us a little bit more detail about what his expected sentence is? and will he be serving in that rikers island? >> sure. having done this for sometime, something that i found to be really important, not essential, but important -- t -- >> as you said, he entered a plea of guilty, agreed to

testify -- those inner workings, to see it. the next step is to him. that is up to the judge, ultimately. but if you are sentenced to, in the city -- rikers is our city jail -- jail time -- you expect it will be -- and -- which is not known as a pleasant place to spend time. there has been a lot of -- and yet -- beginning of our segment, with his name on some of these documents. mr. weisselberg could actually be used as leverage. but he could be pushed

potentially even further in an investigation into -- himself. is that barking up the wrong tree, as it were? that's something that could happen? >> we follow the facts where they take us. the nature of the cooperation was to testify truthfully as to these accesses, this tax fraud. and it was limited there. it was something that, certainly, in cases i have done, there is broader cooperation. that is something that ultimately is up to mr. weisselberg. that decision, whether or not to share more, if in fact there is more for him to cheer. we will continue to follow the facts, as your league talked about. this is a chapter in the book. it's a consequential chapter and a conviction for corporations, founded by a former president. but it's a chapter. and we have had a -- stupendous team led by susan

hough -- in court. we've had other members of the team who were not in court, who have been continuing with broader investigations. so, we will go where the facts take us, and we have things that are of interest to us. we will certainly listen. >> what is your message to other people who are investigating the former president right now? there is a lot of swirl. people feel emboldened by the conviction that he won yesterday? >> i have no message. i have been doing this for about 20 plus years. i am a former federal prosecutor. your league talks about what the department of justice is doing. those are accomplished lawyers that are now -- it happens to be an alum of the manhattan's tricked attorney's office. they are doing their investigations, we are doing ours. -- -- and we are going to do our job. we are going to follow the

facts, as we apply the conduct in manhattan. and i had worked at the department of justice and the new york city attorney generals office. my understanding -- what i expect to happen is that others doing other investigations will follow the facts, where they take in their jurisdiction. >> that's what i do -- trump businesses accountable, a trump, whether it's an organization or a charity has been held accountable by you and the efforts of those in your office. so, congratulations. i think a lot of the american public is eager to know how this book that you are working on and. thank you so much for your time, mr. district attorney. >> thank you for having me. i appreciate it. >> coming, up former u.s. attorney general eric holder joins me to discuss a controversial legal -- democracy as we know it. but first, senator raphael warnock -- back in washington d.c. today after winning his insanely high stakes runoff election. senator cory booker weighs in on that victory right after the break. stay with us. with us

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was in 1934. it was the middle of franklin president franklin delano roosevelt's first term in office. fdr had already's signed into law much of the new deal. the economy was growing again for the first time since the

start of the great depression. and every incumbent democratic senator kept his seat. that kind of senate victory for the party in the white house never happened again until last night, when georgia senator raphael warnock won reelection. >> i am georgia. i am an example and an iteration of its history. all of its pain and its promise, its brutality and the possibility. but because this is america, because we always had a path to make our country greater against unspeakable odds, here we stand together. thank you, georgia. >> last night, georgia made history a couple times over.

in reelecting warnock, georgia elected its first full term black senator. and it ensured that all incumbent democratic senators kept their seats while expanding the democratic majority in the senate. today, senate majority leader chuck schumer welcomed senator warnock back to the capital, as a victory lap. from the top of the capitol hill steps -- announced, george did it again. earlier today, before he stood outside the capital, -- made clear why he thinks democrats were able to make history. maga republicans. -- had gone too far. but the january 6th hearings this summer, and the supreme court's ruling on dobbs, that those showed voters that that -- worry about. and the man who represented that branch of the party last night's runoff was, of course, longtime trump buddy herschel walker, who first entered the political arena during the 2020 republican national convention to deliver this very important

message about his friend. >> it hurt my soul -- the worst one is racist. i take it as a personal insult that people would think i have had a 37 year friendship with a racist. people who -- don't know what they are talking about. growing up in the deep south, i have seen racism up close. i know what it is. and it is not donald trump. >> that statement, from herschel walker, came two months after black lives matter protesters were -- on d.c.'s lafayette square just before trump made his way there for a photo op using the bible as a prop. it was the same summer trump incessantly called for law and order while racial justice protests spread nationwide. that is the person who endorsed walker and recently campaigned for him, which makes walker yet another one of trump's failed candidates. it also shows yet again the failings of the republican party on the whole. as the republican party has scrambled to sort out some kind of anti racist message, in a

party whose leader has been known to give white supremacy a seat at the table, quite literally, the reality is that the democratic party is sending back to the upper chamber the first black senator from the state of georgia. it is extending the tenure of the 11th back black senator in the chambers history and is solidifying a diverse coalition. the people who voted for raphael warnock, who stood in those hours long lines in a truncated one-off period, there were black, people they were mixed race people and asian people and hispanic people and white people. that is the coalition raphael warnock is representing. if raphael warnock is georgia, he is also the democratic party. and joining us now is one of the 11 black people ever to sit in the senate, who also is in the democratic party. our senator from new jersey, cory booker. senator booker, it's great to see you. thank you for being here, thank you for being with us to discuss this moment in american history. it really does feel like an inflection point, as we think

about these two parties. and i wonder what lesson you think people should take away from the events of last night, as it concerns democrats and republicans. >> there's not just one lesson. there is a lot of things that worked, in raphael warnock's favor from, as mitch mcconnell said, we have a candidate selection problem -- to the fact that we got so much done. here is a guy to use in the senate. and he was able to get extraordinary things done. and i joked with sherrod brown today. he said he got a call after he passed the child tax credit, the biggest middle class tax credit in all of american history that went to 90% of americans with children. and -- working on his whole career, rafael was joking -- with hey, i got it done in my first few months. so, he led a lot of big bills, bipartisan bills, and that's another thing that is really important. in addition to that, we have a nation that has been showing, state after state, that this right-wing maga overreach,

whether it's seen in the dobbs decision and the bans on abortion, even in cases of rape and incest, all the way to the insulting things that have been done to try to limit peoples access to voting -- and so, a lot of these things line up. but i think that, perhaps, the biggest one that i don't see being talked about enough is just how of on a maze in person that raphael warnock is. he is one of the 11 black people that served. but this institution has never seen someone like him. he is a pastor of martin luther king's church. he's the only of 100 of us that was arrested protesting in the senate for the expansion of health care. he is a moral leader first, not a politician. and i think that now that he has a full term, he's already had extraordinary first two years are going to seem to pale in comparison to the grandeur that he is going to bring at a

time that we are in a moral moment in america and need more moral leaders that can raise our voices and speak to the moral imagination of the country -- >> i think that that is so well said. and you are so right, that i don't think folks have really -- we have not spent enough time discussing the singularity of reverend warnock. i have to ask you, because race has been such -- an important, unspoken, over examined -- i mean, it's many different things in this race in a lot of different ways. but race has played very much into the georgia runoff, not just because there are two black men running for the seat and inevitably georgia was going to send a black man to the senate no matter who won. but it's because of the curious relationship, especially, between the republican party and its candidate. and i want to read an excerpt from just an absolutely searing indictment of the party that was published in the atlantic, written by caroline randall williams today. and i want to have your thoughts on it.

she writes, walker's candidacy is a fundamental assault by the republican party on the dignity of black americans. how dare they cynically use this buffoon as a shield for their obvious failings to meet the needs and expectations of black voters. they hold him up and say, see, our voters don't mind his race. we are not a racist party. we have black people on our side to. parading walk around leases like some kind of blue ribbon livestock does not mean you have black people on your side. what it means is that you are promoting a charlatan -- i'm and morally and intellectually bereft enough, blithely egomaniacal enough to -- on the world stage against his own best interest. is he in on the joke? does he know they picked him to save money on food black and burnt cork? is that fair? is that right? is that how the republican party should be held accountable for the herschel walker candidacy. >> there is a schism in our country. and i think the republican

party will either fall as a result of this or it is going to struggle to find redemption. and unfortunately, the last few years, as many people have left the republican party, i don't think it is rising to this moment in history. and that will be explicit. raphael warnock gave a great speech about being elected on january 5th and seeing this incredible moment, with the cradle of the confederacy -- the former cradle of the confederacy -- put the first ever black person and first-ever jewish person -- in the senate. he said he was feeling, good -- all these tv shows, because he had been sitting there, chewing with whoopi goldberg on the view on january 6th. but then the capitol was over one. and i was very aware on that day what so much of those folks that attacked the capitol whereabouts. because they were camp auschwitz t-shirt and had lately antisemitic symbols. they were calling black

officers the n-word repeatedly, if you talked to them and listen to the kind of insults and indignities heaped upon them, and the racist language that was used. and of course, the first image i saw, when i finally got to a safe location and turned on the tv was the confederate flag. and so you are seeing this far right extremism that is manifesting itself in this rise of hate crimes, the rise of antisemitic violence in our country, a rise in attacks on mosques and sikh temples and we are seeing citizens of hate. that's why warnock, to me, is the right leader in the right moment. because these lines, as w.e.b dubois said the problem of -- the century is the problem of the color line. -- we need to turn to each other and realize that yes there are powerful corps and threats of different racism's and

religions in our country. but ultimately, can we weave together one fabric and save ourselves. we are a nation in need of each other. yet, we -- heightening, folks that want to with requests under. and the republican parties being tested right now. and i fear that having a president that said there are good people on both sides, were not -- marching, fail that test. and those folks who have this allegiance to him, and that far maga ideals that don't -- at the same time, understand that racism like that is not a threat to black people, simply. it is a threat to the very idea of america, that we can rise and be a light for all nations as a truly multi cultural, multi religious democracy. >> one more question. raphael warnock will be back in the senate for six years. blessedly, the reverend does not have to run again for some

time. >> yeah. yes. >> you are going to have him as a compatriot in your caucus. but on the other side you are going to have the entrance of someone like j.d. vance. ron johnson got reelected. josh hawley is still there. when you talk about moderating the republican party, the idea that the republican party is facing a test, are you confident that lessons will be learned here? is there anything that people like you and raphael warnock can do to help moderate or show the republican party the light, as it were? when >> i think of the republican party, i don't see, often, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. they may be the elected representatives. but 70% of this country wants common sense things like roe v. wade. 70% of the country or more -- actually, 80 plus percent of nra members want common sense gun safety laws. i could go through all of these things, capping prescription drugs, which raphael warnock helped lead the $35 prerinse for insulin -- the majority of republicans want that. the child tax credit, wildly

popular with republicans. so, we as americans, the lines that divide us in congress, are not the lines that divide us in this nation. in fact, we have more ties that bind us then lines that divide us. and so this is a moment in america where i, for one, want the democratic party to begin to claim where most of america is on these issues. and i think that getting too obsessed with the members that you mentioned undermines the larger mission in this country, which is not just to herald the party, but is to achieve justice. and i am so happy that raphael warnock is one of these people that does not speak party verse. he speaks just, disgrace, mercy and redemption first, values that are just as much american values as they are human values. and as i teased him, he is historic. you said 11 back black senators -- that's since reconstruction.

i'm only the fourth popularly elected african american in the united states senate. before me, it was barack obama. but i was teasing warnock today because we saw fetterman won, mark kelly want to close election. raphael warnock. i'm surprised -- mention at all, that all of us are a bald man and that bold is back. i have to say that as well. >> [laughter] that should be the take away from this election men season. bald is back. senator cory booker, you wear it well, my friend. it's great to see you this evening. thank you, thank you. >> thank you. may we bring healing. may raphael warnock, who is a healer, bring healing to our nation. we have a lot of work to do. -- >> amen. coming up next, three conservative supreme court justices have -- currently being considered by the high court, when that could have major consequences for how elections are carried out in the u.s.. former attorney general eric holder will join me to discuss right after the break. e break.

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is considered congresses highest expression of national appreciation for distinguished achievements and contributions. yesterday, police officers who defended the capitol ungenerous six came to the capitol rotunda

to receive that very honor. you can see the family members of those officers, including the family of slain officer brian sicknick, you can see them shaking hands with chuck schumer and nancy pelosi has the exit the stage. and then -- then they get to the outstretched hands of mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy. and there are no handshakes given. we cannot know exactly what was running through these families minds. but the fact of the matter is that while republicans like mcconnell and mccarthy have sought to separate themselves from the anti democratic mob violence we saw on january 6th, they and their party are still very much champion anti democratic tactics, whether that's giving a platform to extremist who promote the big lie, or whether that is embracing anti-democratic theories to undermine illegitimate elections, that is what the republican party is doing right now. and today, the parties doing it with help from conservative justices, with senator mcconnell installed on the supreme court. today, the justices heard oral arguments in a case called more

moore v. harper. -- at the heart of the case is something called the independent state legislature doctrine. that's an obscure legal theory that would allow state legislators to override state court systems and our governors in order to create their own election rules. this fringe theory was the basis for a scheme concocted by trump lawyer john eastman who, was trying to get states to send false slates of electors to washington to overturn the results of the 2020 election. and now republican state legislators from north carolina are trying to get the courts to declare that extreme legal theory the law of the land. the case itself revolves around north carolina republicans attempts to gerrymander the congressional districts ahead of the 2022 midterms. the north carolina supreme court threw out republicans heavily gerrymandered maps. and normally, that would be the end of it. but north carolina republicans

decided to use the insurrectionists favorite fringe legal theory -- that would be the independence day legislature doctrine -- they say they did not have to listen to their states highest court. they were effectively saying, hey, under our state constitution, the north carolina supreme court has the final say. but under this legal theory, we do not have to listen to the courts, or the governor, or anybody, really. we can do whatever you want, checks and balances be damned. at least three supreme court justices -- alito, thomas and gorsuch -- have already signaled that they are open to turning that theory into legally binding precedent. and that would have massive implications, not just for gerrymandering, but for american democracy on the whole. under a muscular reading of this legal theory, republican controlled legislatures would be the ultimate authority, not just on gerrymandering, but on how elections themselves are decided. they could theoretically send fake slates of electors to congress or just refuse to certify an election altogether.

after watching this conservative dominated supreme court take extreme positions on everything from abortion to gun safety to environmental protections, how do we deal with the fact that they now hold the very fate of democracy in their hands. i will ask former u.s. attorney general eric holder that very question and a few more coming up next. ming up next. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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the harbor, egregious cases in a color that up and federal elections. it is an appeal of a case in which north carolina's supreme court found the states republican drawn conditional map was partisan and unconstitutional. at the heart of the case before the supreme court is the so-called independent state legislator theory. that's argues state legislators would have absolutely authority over federal elections and electoral maps. before the start of arguments this morning, former chinese general eric holder who now chairs the national democratic redistricting committee released a statement saying, in part, north carolina republicans are using a truly french legal theory to try to undermine our systems of checks and balances. an extreme and dangerous move in response to the north carolina supreme court decision that held them accountable for violating the state constitution. that should not be a difficult decision for the court in favor of the respondents. one that would protect voters against extreme efforts to manipulate federal elections. anything less than that is an

acceptable. joining us now is the man himself, eric holder, former u.s. attorney general under president barack obama. and now chair of the -- committee. mr. holder, thank you so much for being here even at the subject matter we are talking about should be ringing national alarm bells. what do you think it's gonna happen here on the court? it seems as if it is possible that they take a more minimalist ruling on this, but that sounds like it could still be fairly detrimental to u.s. elections. how do you see this unfolding? >> yeah, i don't think is any middle ground here. i don't think is any minimalist decision. this is a theory that had no basis in law, no basis in history, it is simply a tool that's gonna devised bipartisan, by republicans, to try to subvert the core part of our democratic system. that is our system of checks and balances. what in essence, they are saying, is that state legislators have the ability to gerrymander, to their hearts content, and do things that are

inconsistent with the state constitution -- in this case, north carolina. and not have courts the ability to look at that which they legislatures have done. and -- and called him on. it and force them to do as they did in north carolina. force them to draw new maps. i mean when they came up with the original map, they wanted to propose a map that's would have ten republicans, for democrats, and in the state roughly 50/50. when asked about it on one of the republicans said, well why did you do a ten format? well said we couldn't drop 11 to 3 map. so that gives you a sense of their mindset. supreme court says, that if this with the north carolina constitution, we draw the maps -- the maps i've done in a fair way. and what we get out of north carolina? a 7 to 7 split in the congressional delegation. that's something that they did not like and said, all, right we'll take that to the supreme court on this ridiculous, bogus, fringe theory. and the independent state doctrine. and for any member of the court to put his or her name behind a

decision, even if it's a dissenting opinion, to say that there is some validity to this theory. i think really calls into question you know, where that justice is coming from. >> yeah, well to that end, even if it's a narrow ruling, justice kagan today expressed concerns about it being used to fuel further conspiracies like the fake elector scheme. if the court does not stake out a very clear position on this, how concerned are you that it could be weaponized in elections down the line to support theories like the one proposed by john eastman? to allow states to send fake electors and to congress? >> but that's exactly the core point, we're not talk about something theoretical we only have to look at that which the january six committee has exposed that shows that john eastman wanted to use this very theory as a way to subvert the peaceful transfer of power. now, it is not --

this is the case for the court deals with gerrymandering in north carolina, in one state. but this theory could also be used in the way that john eastman proposed. and, so i think neil catale described it, the collateral damage that will be done by inappropriate decisions is pretty vast. our democracy could be harmed in extremely substantial ways. >> do you have a sense of dread, i mean for everyone who is watched what the court has done in the last year, i mean some people think it's a foregone conclusion that they're gonna support this in some way. do you have a similar amount of trepidation? >> i really don't. i think that this truly would be a bridge too far. you know, if you look at those who have come out against this independent state legislator nonsense, your former republican governors who have the conference states supreme court justices, you have conservative legal scholars

including one of the cofounders of the federalist society. your former republican judges conservative judges, all of the people who i think these folks would look up to and who they look to for guidance, for or the supporters. everybody is against this theory. only people on the french, and i really mean it, people understand that -- only people on the fringe are supportive of this extremely dangerous democracy threatening theory. >> because you mentioned january 6th and because you mentioned the french, and because you are a former attorney general, i have to ask you about comments made by january six member adam schiff today, saying that he said president trump believed -- let me get this correct, has committed a crime. now we know the january six committee is gonna be making criminal referrals to the doj, as someone who once worked at the doj. how much weight does something like this the genesis committees criminal referral

have? if they in fact refer, for example president trump for criminal indictment, how much weight would that carry at the doj? could you get perspective on that? >> yeah, i mean certainly something that would be taken into account. but i think the more important thing is for the justice department to get from the january 6th committee, all of the material that it has accumulated during the course of its acquirement. you know -- interview, tapes interviews, witness transcripts, any evidence that they have -- that they have gathered. that's the material of the justice department will use and making the determination of as to whether or not the former president should be indicted. but i -- i don't want to, you know in anyway minimize the importance of what the committee appears ready to do which is to make these criminal referrals. i think that is something that the american people in need to look at, need to examine, and other status greatness of -- all that acts. a committee, it bipartisan

committee of congress, and looking at all the material that they have accumulated, and presented to the american people, will have made a determination that some people should be held criminally -- criminally liable. that's a big thing! >> it is a big deal indeed! eric holder, former time general of the united states, now chairman of the national democratic redistricting committee. it's a pleasure to have you on the show, thank you so much for your time and wisdom! we'll be right back. we'll be right back.

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