angelina jolie, aka lara croft into murder. how about capac instill as saline and underworld. you can never forget hollyberry as catwoman, or to my thurman and kill bill. demi moore of course and ziyad chain, and the one and only hero of heroes, pam greer as the legendary foxy brown. now this next one was a tv show, not a movie, but i cannot leave out the most amazing linda carter as wonder woman. so what lauren said about women not starring in action movies before her is obviously not true, let's not overlook her main point, jennifer lawrence said quote, we were told boys and girls can both identify with a male lead, but boys they can identify with a female league. well, box office numbers over the years have shown, that is also not true.

we just laid out there a very long list of very successful female lead movies that prove it. so i say, let's keep these women leading and rolls in big movies, and lead roles in the boardroom. women can lead all day every day, yesterday, and tomorrow. and on that note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks that nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. >> a conviction of the trump organization on 17 counts. senator cory booker will be here to talk about raphael warnock's big win in georgia, and what it means for history

and the democratic party and i will also be joined by a former obama attorney general eric holder to discuss the once a fringe legal theory that he says poses an existential threat to our democracy and was argue today before the supreme court. but first, suits and sorts and wrestling belts. suits and swords and wrestling belts. stay with me here. when it comes to the swords, plural, i think we have a good idea which one they were. whilst presidents make their first trip abroad to the countries that are physically closest to us like canada or mexico, where they got our closest allies like the uk, but president trump bumped that norm, and he made the incredibly unprecedented decision to make his debut trip abroad as president to saudi arabia. and on his first day on that first trip, before attending a state dinner at the saudi royal palace, trump was greeted like this. with a ceremonial men only

sword dance, it really is one of the best pieces of video to come out of the trump administration, and that is saying a lot. but it is also one of the only photographic evidence we have one of the swords that were gifted to president trump on that trip to saudi arabia. according to the official state department record of -- three daggers one of which is described of made of pure silver with mother of pearl sheath, and three sorts. one of which is presumably the one we see president trump dancing awkwardly with right there in that video. we can keep playing the on loop, but we won't. we can say for certain, we could not find any of the records of the swords, so we think those are probably the sorts in question. then there's the matter of the wrestling belts. >> this is mike tyson's belt, this is -- from the world wrestling federation, this is shaquille

o'neal's shoe. >> presidential mess really likes collectors items, we know this. in addition to mike tyson's wealth and -- we also know that president trump was gifted this belt by a professional ufc fighter in 2018, and he was given this custom make america great again wrestling belt one point while he was in office. so we don't know exactly which wrestling belts are in question here, because donald trump simply owns too many of them. and, too many suits for that matter. but the reason we are talking about swords and suits and rustling belts, is because today the washington post was the first to report that law is for the former president trump afternoon up at least two classified documents in one of trump storage units in west palm beach florida. a unit filled with in addition to these classified documents, a unit filled with suits, swords, and wrestling belts. now these are on top of the

more than 300 classified documents we already knew president trump had taken with him when he left the white house. at some point around thanksgiving, and outside team hired by trump's lawyers searched mar-a-lago and trump tower in new york city, and trump's bedminster club in new jersey and this storage unit in florida. and now, almost two years after trump left office, after having been caught lying multiple times already about having returned all the classified documents he took, this team found two more, along with the swords and suits and wrestling belts. trump's lawyers only conducted this search after being scolded by a judge to do so. and of course there are more documents, of course he lied about, it of course there was -- sort of suits under wrestling belts. the question now is, what happens next? will trump actually be held accountable? what could determine that? who could determine that? so far, in all the numerous

investigations and scandals and inquiries and -- there's one person who has been able to successfully hold trump or at least his organizations accountable. but way of history here, specifically the belt trump got from former chair and ceo of the wwe -- in 2007, trump participated in a w w -- pay-per-view event called battle of the billionaires because of course he did. and that offense, trump famously tackled vince mcmahon. you are so lucky we are playing this videotape. there was a proxy wrestling match after that to settle a bet between trump and mcmahon. the loser of which would have to have his head shaven. it was quite a show. now of course, this was all staged. but, that is not what is bad about this, what is bad about this is how donald trump got paid. earlier this summer, in an investigation into mcmahon by it doubly the --

$5 million, but was not paid directly. the money was paid to trump's charity, the trump foundation. we have course know now that trump foundation was a fraud, and the words of the new york attorney general the foundations fraud was uncovered, the foundation function as little more than a checkbook to serve mr. trump's business and political interests. a checkbook that did not have to deal with pesky little things like taxes. of course, in the case of the trump foundation, trump has faced accountability. the foundation was required to pay two billion dollars to other charities and was then forced to dissolve, it no longer exists. new york's the tierney general decided to press charges, and one. and the person in charge of that investigation, who actually got accountability from donald trump, was alvin bragg. alvin bragg is now the district attorney of manhattan, and yesterday he managed to hold presidential countable once again. yesterday, president trump's company the trump organization

was convicted of tax fraud in the state of new york on all 17 counts it faced. alvin bragg ran that investigation as well, which was the first time the trump organization has been convicted of criminal conduct. the core of this case was that the trump organization had been systematically doing creative accounting, paying employees off the books with perks like tuition to private schools, more free rent and expensive apartments, all while avoiding paying taxes. something any normal citizen would be prosecuted for. in this case, trump's company was as well. in this case, gravity worked. and, it is not over. today, manhattan da alvin bragg described his office's investigation into president trump as quote, ongoing. he said he views the case against the trump organization as, quote, one chapter in the book as far as this probe is concerned. joining us now is the man himself, alvin bragg mr. district, attorney thank you for sitting through the

wrestling videos, and sore dances, but it was all of a peace serving the point that you are one of the very few people in this country who has managed to hold mr. trump, or at least his organizations accountable. >> thanks for having me. the wrestling video in particular was quite entertaining. >> well, we didn't shy away from playing it, shall we say that. what has stunned me in the case for which you got a jury to convict on all counts is the access of evidence that you have. can you tell me a little bit about some of these pieces that the viewing audience was treated to -- whoever when you specify. nevertheless, there is a memo signed an okayed by donald trump reducing staffers salary by $72,000. one assumes, because he's gonna be getting other perks from the arctic denies asian. those checks for thousands of dollars signed with -- paying for the tuition of employees. are you surprised at the paper trail was this explicit? >> well, one of the great things about the jury trial, which is, you know, a

centerpiece of our democracy, it's the laying bare of evidence and open court. so the public gets to see, in this instance, the inner workings of a 13-year scheme, which was no more than -- about greed, and cheating, all laid bare the inner workings of the trump organization. the rigor of the investigation -- was second to none. the public service that worked on this, built the case, certainly indebted to for what they brought. and lining up that evidence, and presenting it in the court of law. leading to conviction. so, having worked on complex investigations for 20 plus years, we follow the facts, and that's what happened here. -- but not surprised and gratified that the genre sauce that we did -- in our workings of the trump organization on display. >> can you explain, as you understand it, what was the operating structure of this

organization? >> well, fundamentally, the name is in the title. right? this is the trump organization. the true trump corporations that were on trial here. and, the core of the conduct was senior officials and the corporations being given benefits and not paying taxes on them, and the issue that the defense sort of really honed in on was, okay, it's just those folks. this was not for the benefit of the corporation. that became a significant issue in the trial. muscling out so well, okay, who hired these folks? he went through the documents, and what was their level and very organization? these were high managerial -- and so, that, all of a piece put together, you know, obviously it wasn't in the jury room, but -- robotic the defense -- -- >> rogue cfo, someone who's reporting directly and literally in the -- >> isett yonder standing that it was effectively a culture of

fraud that start from the top down? >> well, certainly in this instincts -- pettiness, that's quite a long period of time, and is engaged in by people at the highest levels of the organization. so -- corporate liability -- a case against the corporations -- and so that's what this was about. we know at this point -- now we have a conviction. >> allen weisselberg was the star witness and all this. he's gonna face some jail time. he gave you a lot of information and exchange for a reduced jail sentence. can you tell us a little bit more detail about what his expected sentence is? and will he be serving in that rikers island? >> sure. having done this for sometime, something that i found to be really important, not essential, but important -- >> as you said, he entered a plea of guilty, agreed to testify -- those inner workings, to see it. the next step is to him.

that is up to the judge, ultimately. but if you are sentenced to, in the city -- rikers is our city jail -- jail time -- you expect it will be -- and -- which is not known as a pleasant place to spend time. there has been a lot of -- and yet -- beginning of our segment, with his name on some of these documents. mr. weisselberg could actually be used as leverage. but he could be pushed potentially even further in an investigation into -- himself. is that barking up the wrong tree, as it were? that's something that could happen? >> we follow the facts where they take us. the nature of the cooperation was to testify truthfully as to these accesses, this tax fraud.

and it was limited there. it was something that, certainly, in cases i have done, there is broader cooperation. that is something that ultimately is up to mr. weisselberg. that decision, whether or not to share more, if in fact there is more for him to cheer. we will continue to follow the facts, as your league talked about. this is a chapter in the book. it's a consequential chapter and a conviction for corporations, founded by a former president. but it's a chapter. and we have had a -- stupendous team led by susan hough -- in court. we've had other members of the team who were not in court, who have been continuing with broader investigations. so, we will go where the facts take us, and we have things that are of interest to us. we will certainly listen. >> what is your message to

other people who are investigating the former president right now? there is a lot of swirl. people feel emboldened by the conviction that he won yesterday? >> i have no message. i have been doing this for about 20 plus years. i am a former federal prosecutor. your league talks about what the department of justice is doing. those are accomplished lawyers that are now -- it happens to be an alum of the manhattan's tricked attorney's office. they are doing their investigations, we are doing ours. -- -- and we are going to do our job. we are going to follow the facts, as we apply the conduct in manhattan. and i had worked at the department of justice and the new york city attorney generals

office. my understanding -- what i expect to happen is that others doing other investigations will follow the facts, where they take in their jurisdiction. >> that's what i do -- trump businesses accountable, a trump, whether it's an organization or a charity has been held accountable by you and the efforts of those in your office. so, congratulations. i think a lot of the american public is eager to know how this book that you are working on and. thank you so much for your time, mr. district attorney. >> thank you for having me. i appreciate it. >> coming, up former u.s.

attorney general eric holder joins me to discuss a controversial legal -- democracy as we know it. but first, senator raphael warnock -- back in washington d. c. today after winning his insanely high stakes runoff election. senator cory booker weighs in on that victory right after the break. stay with us. vicks vapostick. strong soothing... vapors. help comfort your loved ones. for chest, neck, and back. it goes on clear. no mess. just soothing comfort. try vicks vapostick.

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was in 1934. it was the middle of franklin

president franklin delano roosevelt's first term in office. fdr had already's signed into law much of the new deal. the economy was growing again for the first time since the start of the great depression. and every incumbent democratic senator kept his seat. that kind of senate victory for the party in the white house never happened again until last night, when georgia senator raphael warnock won reelection. >> i am georgia. i am an example and an iteration of its history. all of its pain and its promise, its brutality and the possibility. but because this is america, because we always had a path to make our country greater against unspeakable odds, here we stand together. thank you, georgia. >> last night, georgia made

history a couple times over. in reelecting warnock, georgia elected its first full term black senator. and it ensured that all incumbent democratic senators kept their seats while expanding the democratic majority in the senate. today, senate majority leader chuck schumer welcomed senator warnock back to the capital, as a victory lap. from the top of the capitol hill steps -- announced, george did it again. earlier today, before he stood outside the capital, -- made clear why he thinks democrats were able to make history. maga republicans. -- had gone too far. but the january 6th hearings this summer, and the supreme court's ruling on dobbs, that those showed voters that that --

worry about. and the man who represented that branch of the party last night's runoff was, of course, longtime trump buddy herschel walker, who first entered the political arena during the 2020 republican national convention to deliver this very important message about his friend. >> it hurt my soul -- the worst one is racist. i take it as a personal insult that people would think i have had a 37 year friendship with a racist. people who -- don't know what they are talking about. growing up in the deep south, i have seen racism up close. i know what it is. and it is not donald trump. >> that statement, from herschel walker, came two months after black lives matter protesters were -- on d. c.'s lafayette square just before trump made his way there for a photo op using the bible as a prop. it was the same summer trump incessantly called for law and order while racial justice protests spread nationwide. that is the person who endorsed walker and recently campaigned for him, which makes walker yet another one of trump's failed candidates. it also shows yet again the failings of the republican party on the whole.

as the republican party has scrambled to sort out some kind of anti racist message, in a party whose leader has been known to give white supremacy a seat at the table, quite literally, the reality is that the democratic party is sending back to the upper chamber the first black senator from the state of georgia. it is extending the tenure of the 11th back black senator in the chambers history and is solidifying a diverse coalition. the people who voted for raphael warnock, who stood in those hours long lines in a truncated one-off period, there were black, people they were mixed race people and asian people and hispanic people and white people. that is the coalition raphael warnock is representing. if raphael warnock is georgia, he is also the democratic party. and joining us now is one of the 11 black people ever to sit

in the senate, who also is in the democratic party. our senator from new jersey, cory booker. senator booker, it's great to see you. thank you for being here, thank you for being with us to discuss this moment in american history. it really does feel like an inflection point, as we think about these two parties. and i wonder what lesson you think people should take away from the events of last night, as it concerns democrats and republicans. >> there's not just one lesson. there is a lot of things that worked, in raphael warnock's favor from, as mitch mcconnell said, we have a candidate selection problem -- to the fact that we got so much done. here is a guy to use in the senate. and he was able to get extraordinary things done. and i joked with sherrod brown today. he said he got a call after he passed the child tax credit, the biggest middle class tax

credit in all of american history that went to 90% of americans with children. and -- working on his whole career, rafael was joking -- with hey, i got it done in my first few months. so, he led a lot of big bills, bipartisan bills, and that's another thing that is really important. in addition to that, we have a nation that has been showing, state after state, that this right-wing maga overreach, whether it's seen in the dobbs decision and the bans on abortion, even in cases of rape and incest, all the way to the insulting things that have been done to try to limit peoples access to voting -- and so, a lot of these things line up. but i think that, perhaps, the biggest one that i don't see being talked about enough is just how of on a maze in person that raphael warnock is. he is one of the 11 black people that served. but this institution has never seen someone like him. he is a pastor of martin luther king's church.

he's the only of 100 of us that was arrested protesting in the senate for the expansion of health care. he is a moral leader first, not a politician. and i think that now that he has a full term, he's already had extraordinary first two years are going to seem to pale in comparison to the grandeur that he is going to bring at a time that we are in a moral moment in america and need more moral leaders that can raise our voices and speak to the moral imagination of the country -- >> i think that that is so well said. and you are so right, that i don't think folks have really -- we have not spent enough time discussing the singularity of reverend warnock. i have to ask you, because race has been such -- an important, unspoken, over

examined -- i mean, it's many different things in this race in a lot of different ways. but race has played very much into the georgia runoff, not just because there are two black men running for the seat and inevitably georgia was going to send a black man to the senate no matter who won. but it's because of the curious relationship, especially, between the republican party and its candidate. and i want to read an excerpt from just an absolutely searing indictment of the party that was published in the atlantic, written by caroline randall williams today.

and i want to have your thoughts on it. she writes, walker's candidacy is a fundamental assault by the republican party on the dignity of black americans. how dare they cynically use this buffoon as a shield for their obvious failings to meet the needs and expectations of black voters. they hold him up and say, see, our voters don't mind his race. we are not a racist party. we have black people on our side to. parading walk around leases like some kind of blue ribbon livestock does not mean you have black people on your side. what it means is that you are promoting a charlatan -- i'm and morally and intellectually bereft enough, blithely egomaniacal enough to -- on the world stage against his own best interest. is he in on the joke? does he know they picked him to save money on food black and burnt cork? is that fair?

is that right? is that how the republican party should be held accountable for the herschel walker candidacy. >> there is a schism in our country. and i think the republican party will either fall as a result of this or it is going to struggle to find redemption. and unfortunately, the last few years, as many people have left the republican party, i don't think it is rising to this moment in history. and that will be explicit. raphael warnock gave a great speech about being elected on january 5th and seeing this incredible moment, with the cradle of the confederacy -- the former cradle of the confederacy -- put the first ever black person and first-ever jewish person -- in the senate. he said he was feeling, good --

all these tv shows, because he had been sitting there, chewing with whoopi goldberg on the view on january 6th. but then the capitol was over one. and i was very aware on that day what so much of those folks that attacked the capitol whereabouts. because they were camp auschwitz t-shirt and had lately antisemitic symbols. they were calling black officers the n-word repeatedly, if you talked to them and listen to the kind of insults and indignities heaped upon them, and the racist language that was used. and of course, the first image i saw, when i finally got to a safe location and turned on the tv was the confederate flag. and so you are seeing this far

right extremism that is manifesting itself in this rise of hate crimes, the rise of antisemitic violence in our country, a rise in attacks on mosques and sikh temples and we are seeing citizens of hate. that's why warnock, to me, is the right leader in the right moment. because these lines, as w. e. b dubois said the problem of -- the century is the problem of the color line. -- we need to turn to each other and realize that yes there are powerful corps and threats of different racism's and religions in our country. but ultimately, can we weave together one fabric and save ourselves. we are a nation in need of each other. yet, we -- heightening, folks that want to with requests under. and the republican parties being tested right now. and i fear that having a president that said there are good people on both sides, were not -- marching, fail that test. and those folks who have this allegiance to him, and that far maga ideals that don't -- at the same time, understand that racism like that is not a

threat to black people, simply. it is a threat to the very idea of america, that we can rise and be a light for all nations as a truly multi cultural, multi religious democracy. >> one more question. raphael warnock will be back in the senate for six years. blessedly, the reverend does not have to run again for some time. >> yeah. yes. >> you are going to have him as a compatriot in your caucus. but on the other side you are going to have the entrance of someone like j. d. vance. ron johnson got reelected. josh hawley is still there. when you talk about moderating the republican party, the idea that the republican party is facing a test, are you confident that lessons will be learned here? is there anything that people like you and raphael warnock can do to help moderate or show the republican party the light, as it were? when >> i think of the

republican party, i don't see, often, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. they may be the elected representatives. but 70% of this country wants common sense things like roe v. wade. 70% of the country or more -- actually, 80 plus percent of nra members want common sense gun safety laws. i could go through all of these things, capping prescription drugs, which raphael warnock helped lead the $35 prerinse for insulin -- the majority of republicans want that. the child tax credit, wildly popular with republicans. so, we as americans, the lines that divide us in congress, are not the lines that divide us in this nation. in fact, we have more ties that bind us then lines that divide us. and so this is a moment in america where i, for one, want the democratic party to begin to claim where most of america is on these issues. and i think that getting too obsessed with the members that you mentioned undermines the larger mission in this country, which is not just to herald the

party, but is to achieve justice. and i am so happy that raphael warnock is one of these people that does not speak party verse. he speaks just, disgrace, mercy and redemption first, values that are just as much american values as they are human values. and as i teased him, he is historic. you said 11 back black senators -- that's since reconstruction. i'm only the fourth popularly elected african american in the united states senate. before me, it was barack obama. but i was teasing warnock today because we saw fetterman won, mark kelly want to close election. raphael wi'm surprised -- back. emay we bring healing. nati-- coming up next, tconsidered by elections are carrie right after the break. ourt justices have -- currently being considered b the high court, when that coul have major consequences for ho elections are carried out in the u.s. former attorney general eric holder will join me to discuss right after the break. [coughing] hi, susan. honey.

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is considered congresses highest expression of national appreciation for distinguished achievements and contributions. yesterday, police officers exactly who defended the capitol ungenerous six came to the is capitol rotunda to receive that the fact very honor. of the you can see the family members matter of those officers, including is the wall the family of slain officer brian sicknick, you can see them shaking hands with chuck schumer and nancy pelosi has the exit the stage. republicans and then -- are then they get to the the person outstretched hands of mitch to separate themselves mcconnell and kevin mccarthy. from the anti-democratic and there are no handshakes violence given. that we saw on we cannot know exactly what january six was running through these they and their party is still very families minds. much championing but the fact of the matter is anti democratic that while republicans like tactics mcconnell and mccarthy have whether that's giving sought to separate themselves extremists to from the anti democratic mob wipe violence we saw on january 6th or whether, they and their

party are that is embracing anti-democratic series timberline legitimate still very much champion anti elections that democratic tactics, whether is what the republican party is that's giving a platform to doing right now and today the party is doing it with health conservative justices senator mcconnell installed extremist who promote the big today the justices lie, or whether that is heard arguments in a case embracing anti-democratic called wore the harbor this consecutive and american theories to undermine democracy as we illegitimate elections, that know the specific is what the republican party is cases something called the independent state doing right now. legislature doctrine that's and today, the parties doing an obscure illegal it with help from conservative theory that would allow state legislators to override justices, with senator their state court systems mcconnell installed on the and their supreme court. governors in order to create their own election that is today, the justices heard for mystery was the basis for skiing oral arguments in a case called concocted by trump more moore v. harper. lawyer john eastman -- was trying to get states and false slates at the heart of the case is of electors to something called the washington to overturn the results of the 2020 election independent state legislature now republican state doctrine. legislators from north carolina that's an obscure legal theory are trying to get the courts to declare that extreme legal that would allow state theory legislators to override state the law of the land court systems and our governors the keys itself of all in order to create their own around north carolina republicans election rules. attempt to gerrymander this fringe theory was the the congressional basis for a scheme concocted by districts

ahead of the 2022 in trump lawyer john eastman who, the north carolina was trying to get states to supreme court through about republicans heavily gerrymandered send false slates of electors maps and normally that would be in to washington to overturn the the north carolina results of the 2020 election. republicans decided and now republican state to use the legislators from north carolina insurrectionists are trying to get the courts to favorite declare that extreme legal fringe legal theory that would be the theory the law of the land. independent state the case itself revolves legislature back to say they didn't have to listen to their states around north carolina highest court they were effectively say under state republicans attempts to constitution that gerrymander the congressional north carolina districts ahead of the 2022 supreme court has a final say but under this legal midterms. theory we don't the north carolina supreme have to listen to the courts for the governor court threw out republicans for anybody heavily gerrymandered maps. really we can do whatever we want checks and and normally, that would be balances began the end of it. at least three supreme court justices believe that but north carolina republicans convalescent gorsuch already signaled that they are open decided to use the to turning this theory into people the binding insurrectionists favorite precedent and that fringe legal theory -- would have massive that would be the independence implications day legislature doctrine -- about this for gerrymandering that for american they say they did not have to democracy on listen to their states highest other court. muscular reading this they were effectively saying, legal theory republican hey, under our state-controlled legislators would be the ultimate constitution, the north authority here not carolina supreme court has the just ontario during but on how

final say. elections themselves but under this legal theory, are decided we do not have to listen to the they could theoretically courts, or the governor, or sent fake slates anybody, really. of electors to congress we can do whatever you want, or just refuse checks and balances be damned. refuse at least three supreme court to certify an election altogether justices -- after watching this conservative dominance of reporting alito, thomas and gorsuch -- extreme positions on everything from abortion gun safety to environmental protections how to deal with the fact that the now very have already signaled that faint of they are open to turning that democracy theory into legally binding in their hands precedent. all asked former u.s. attorney general eric and that would have massive holder that very question implications, not just for a few gerrymandering, but for more coming american democracy on the up whole. next under a muscular reading of this legal theory, republican controlled legislatures would be the ultimate authority, not just on gerrymandering, but on how elections themselves are decided. they could theoretically send fake slates of electors to congress or just refuse to certify an election altogether. after watching this conservative dominated supreme court take extreme positions on everything from abortion to gun safety to environmental protections, how do we deal with the fact that they now hold the very fate of democracy in their hands. i will ask former u.s. attorney general eric holder that very question and a few more

>> today the supreme court heard oral arguments in more of the harbor, egregious cases in a color that up and federal elections. it is an appeal of a case in which north carolina's supreme court found the states republican drawn conditional map was partisan and unconstitutional. at the heart of the case before the supreme court is the so-called independent state legislator theory. that's argues state legislators would have absolutely authority over federal elections and electoral maps. before the start of arguments this morning, former chinese general eric holder who now chairs the national democratic redistricting committee released a statement saying, in part, north carolina republicans are using a truly french legal theory to try to undermine our systems of checks and balances. an extreme and dangerous move in response to the north

carolina supreme court decision that held them accountable for violating the state constitution. that should not be a difficult decision for the court in favor of the respondents. one that would protect voters against extreme efforts to manipulate federal elections. anything less than that is an acceptable. joining us now is the man himself, eric holder, former u.s. attorney general under president barack obama. and now chair of the -- committee. mr. holder, thank you so much for being here even at the subject matter we are talking about should be ringing national alarm bells. what do you think it's gonna happen here on the court? it seems as if it is possible that they take a more

minimalist ruling on this, but that sounds like it could still be fairly detrimental to u.s. elections. how do you see this unfolding? >> yeah, i don't think is any middle ground here. i don't think is any minimalist decision. this is a theory that had no basis in law, no basis in history, it is simply a tool that's gonna devised bipartisan, by republicans, to try to subvert the core part of our democratic system. that is our system of checks and balances. what in essence, they are

saying, is that state legislators have the ability to gerrymander, to their hearts content, and do things that are inconsistent with the state constitution -- in this case, north carolina. and not have courts the ability to look at that which they legislatures have done. and -- and called him on. it and force them to do as they did in north carolina. force them to draw new maps. i mean when they came up with the original map, they wanted to propose a map that's would have ten republicans, for democrats, and in the state roughly 50/50. when asked about it on one of the republicans said, well why did you do a ten format? well said we couldn't drop 11 to 3 map. so that gives you a sense of their mindset. supreme court says, that if this with the north carolina constitution, we draw the maps -- the maps i've done in a fair

way. and what we get out of north carolina? a 7 to 7 split in the congressional delegation. that's something that they did not like and said, all, right we'll take that to the supreme court on this ridiculous, bogus, fringe theory. and the independent state doctrine. and for any member of the court to put his or her name behind a decision, even if it's a dissenting opinion, to say that there is some validity to this theory. i think really calls into question you know, where that justice is coming from. >> yeah, well to that end, even if it's a narrow ruling, justice kagan today expressed concerns about it being used to fuel further conspiracies like the fake elector scheme. if the court does not stake out a very clear position on this, how concerned are you that it could be weaponized in elections down the line to support theories like the one proposed by john eastman? to allow states to send fake electors and to congress? >> but that's exactly the core point, we're not talk about something theoretical we only have to look at that which the january six committee has exposed that shows that john eastman wanted to use this very theory as a way to subvert the peaceful transfer of power. now, it is not -- this is the case for the court deals with gerrymandering in north carolina, in one state. but this theory could also be used in the way that john eastman proposed. and, so i think neil catale described it, the collateral

damage that will be done by inappropriate decisions is pretty vast. our democracy could be harmed in extremely substantial ways. >> do you have a sense of dread, i mean for everyone who is watched what the court has done in the last year, i mean some people think it's a foregone conclusion that they're gonna support this in some way. do you have a similar amount of trepidation? >> i really don't. i think that this truly would be a bridge too far.

you know, if you look at those who have come out against this independent state legislator nonsense, your former republican governors who have the conference states supreme court justices, you have conservative legal scholars including one of the cofounders of the federalist society. your former republican judges conservative judges, all of the people who i think these folks

would look up to and who they look to for guidance, for or the supporters. everybody is against this theory. only people on the french, and i really mean it, people understand that -- only people on the fringe are supportive of this extremely dangerous democracy threatening theory. >> because you mentioned january 6th and because you mentioned the french, and because you are a former attorney general, i have to ask you about comments made by january six member adam schiff today, saying that he said president trump believed -- let me get this correct, has committed a crime. now we know the january six committee is gonna be making criminal referrals to the doj, as someone who once worked at the doj. how much weight does something like this the genesis committees criminal referral have? if they in fact refer, for example president trump for criminal indictment, how much weight would that carry at the doj? could you get perspective on that? >> yeah, i mean certainly something that would be taken into account. but i think the more important thing is for the justice department to get from the january 6th committee, all of the material that it has accumulated during the course of its acquirement. you know -- interview, tapes interviews, eviden look at, need to examine and riminal nat e american people in nto atus greatness of --, all that acts. mmittee of coness, andlooking aa at they have accumul presented to tmericapeople, wila deteinatioome people shoue heldlly --

criminal liable. thatig thing >> it is a big deal indeed eric holder, former time general of the united states now chairman of the national democratic redistricting committee. it's a pleasure to have you on the show, thank you so much fo your time and wisdom we'll be right back. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. ♪♪ when a cold comes on strong, knock it out with vicks dayquil severe. just one dose starts to relieve 9 of your worst cold and flu symptoms. to help take you from 9 to none. power through with vicks dayquil severe.

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