he's mindful how bad, they are going to the right thing. why? because if he has denied the nomination, might run as a third party candidate. i heard them in the general election. at that point, you are just so disabling yourself. you are inventing reasons to not do the right thing. and they're capable of doing that of course, we've seen that over the last six or seven years. >> just self interested, i'm focusing on self interest like a good organizer. look, christophe thank you very, much appreciated. >> thanks chris. >> that is all in on this wednesday night, alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening alex. >> good evening chris, great show. tonight >> thank you very much, you've got a big test, i'm excited to see. him >> i do, he's on the set, but i'm not going to reveal. who >> not ruining it. ot ruining it. and what an hour it is shaping up to be tonight we will be joined by manhattan da alvin brag who yesterday secured a conviction the trump organization a senator cory booker will be here to talk about senator warnock's

big win in georgia and what it means for history and the democratic party. and i'll also be joined by former obama attorney general eric holder to discuss the once fringe legal theory that poses a threat to our democracy and argued today before the supreme court. but first, suits and swords and wrestling belts. >> suits, swords, and wrestling belts. stay with me here. when it comes to the swords, plural, i think we have a good idea which ones they were. mostst presidents make trips abroad to the countries physicallyth closest to us like canada or tmexico. o are they go to our closest allies, the uk. but president trump bucked that norm and he made the incredibly unprecedented decision to make his debut trip abroad to saudi arabia. and on his first day on that first tripay before attending a state dinner at a saudi royal

palace, trump was greeted like this. with a ceremonial men only sword dance. really is one of the best pieces of video to come out of the trump administration. that's saying a lot. but it is also only maybe the only photographic evidence we have of one of the sword that's were gifted to president trump on that trip to saudi arabia. it had three daggers, one of which is described as made of pure silver and three swords. one of which is presumably the one we see president trump dancing awkwardly with right there in that video. we can keep playing that on at loop. but won't. we can't say for certain but we could not find any other records of swords. so we think those are probably the swords in question. then there is the matter of the wrestling belts. >> this is mike tyson's belt.

this is vince mcmahon from the world wrestling federation. this is shaquille o'neal's shoe. >> presidents trump really lika collector's items. we know this. in addition to mike tyson's belt and vince mcmahon's belt, we also know that president trump wasat gifted this belt by a professional ufc fighter in 2018. and he was given this custom make america great again wrestling belt at some point while in office. so we don't really know exactly which wrestling belts are in question behere. donald trump simply owns too many of them. and too many suits for that matter. but the reason we're talking about swordse and suits and wrestling belts is because today "the washington post" was the first to report that lawyers for the former president, president trump, have turned up at least twotu classified documents in o of trump's storage units in west palm beach, florida. a unit filled with, in addition to these classified documents, a unit filled with suits, swords,

and wrestling belts. now, these are on top of the more than 300 classified documents we knew president trump took with him. an outside team searched mar-a-lago and trump you tosi eastern trump's club in new jersey and then this storage unit in florida. and now almost two years after trump left office, after having been caught lying multiple time already about having returned all the classified documents he took, this team found two more. along with the swords, the suits, and the wrestling belts. trump's lawyers only conducted the search after being scolded by a judge to do so. and like, of course, there were more documents. of course he lied about. of course they were strewn in there with swords, suits, and wrestling belts. what happens next? will trump be held accountable?

what can determine that? who can determine that? so far in all the numerous investigations and scandals and inquires and all the rest, there is one person who has been able to successfully hold trump or his organizations accountable. let's go back to the wrestling belts. the belt he got from former chair and ceo of the wwe, vincent mcman. in trump participated in a wwe pay per view event called "battle of the billionaires." there was a proxy wrestling match after that to settle a bet between trump and mcman. the loser of which would have to have his head shaven. it was quite a show. now, of course, this was all staged. that is not what is bad about this. what is bad about this is how donald trump got paid. earlier this summer in an

investigation into mcmahon, they found that president trump was paid $5 million. the money was paid to trump's charity, the trump foundation. we, of course, know now that no trump's foundation was a fraud. and the words of the new york attorney general and the foundation fraud was uncovered, it was a checkbook to serve mr. trump's business and political interests. a checkbook that didn't have to deal with pesky little things like taxes. of course, in the case of the trump foundation, trump faced accountability. it was forced to dissolve. new york's attorney general pressed charge ands won. person in charge of that investigation and actually got accountability from donald trump was alvin brag. alvin brag is now the district attorney in manhattan. and yesterday he managed to hold president trump accountable once

again. yesterday president trump's company, the trump organization, was convicted of tax fraud in the state of new york on all 17 counts it faced. alvin brag ran that investigation too. which was the first time the trump organization has been convicted of criminal conduct. the core of this case was the trump organization had been systematically doing creative accounting, paying employees off the books with perks like tuition to private schools or free rent in expensive apartments, all while avoiding paying taxes. something any normal citizen would be prosecuted for n this ok, trump's company was too. in this case, gravity worked. and it is not over. today manhattan da alvin brag described his office's investigation into president trump and on going. he said he views the case against the trump organization as, quote, one chapter in the book as far as this probe is concerned. joining us now is the man

himself, alvin brag. mr. district, thank you for sitting through theri wrestling videos and sword dances. it is all of a piece serving to point that you're one of the very few people in this country that managed to hold mr. trump or at least his organizations accountable. >> thanks for having me.s the wrestling video in particular is interesting. >> well, you know, we didn't shy away from playing it. shall we say that? what stunned me in the case for which you got a jury to convict on all counts is the excess of evidence that you had. can you tell me a little bit about some of these pieces that the audience was treated to, the viewing audience, the jury, whoever you want to specify. there is a memo and letter ok'd reducing staffer salary by $72,000, one assumes because he's getting other perks from the organization? there is checks for thousands of dollars signed by president

trump to colombia grammar and prep school, paying the tuition of employees. were you surprised that the paper trailre was this explicit? >> well, you know, one great thing about a jury trial which is, you know, centerpiece of our democracy is the laying bear of evidence in court. the public gets to see the inner workings of a, you know, 13-year scheme which was no more than, you know, about greed and cheating and lying, all the inner workings ofal the trump organization. the rigor of the investigation was second to none.nd the public service that worked on this built the case certainly indebted to for what they brought and lining up that evidence and then presenting it in a court of law leading to the conviction. so having worked on complex investigations for 20 plus years, you know, we file the facts. and that's what happened here.

so not surprised of the things unfolded as we thought they would. in court. obviously the trial is always a little bit of a twist and turn. but not surprised. and gratified that, you know, u one, the jury saw it as we did and the broader public got to see the inner workings of the trump organization on wodisplay. >> can you explain what was the operating structure of this organization? >> well, look, fundamentally, i mean, the name is in the title, right? the trump organization, trump corporation that's were on trial here. and the core of the conduct was senior officials in corporations being given benefits and not paying taxes on them and issue that defense sort of really honed in on was okay, it's just those folks. this was not for the benefit of the corporation. so that became a significant issue in the trial. and, you know, laying out said,

okay, who hired these folks? who went through the documents? and what were their level and the organization, these were not mid level. these were high managerial agents as the law calls them. and so that, all of that and a piece put together, you know, obviously i wasn't in the jury room. we viewed that as essential. rebutting the claim from the defense that, you know, nothing to see, here. just a couple of rogue employees. it's hard to have a rogue cfo, you know, someone report directly in the c suite. >> it is your understanding it was a culture of fraud that started from the top down? >> certainly in this instance something that goes 13 years, quite a long period of time, and is engaged in by people at the highest levels of the organization, sufficient to and in this instance did happen for corporate liability. so this was a case against the

corporations. and certainly was sufficient the jury found so. and so that's what this was about. and we think we -- we know at this point now that we have a conviction. >> the star witness is going to face jail time. he gave you a lot of information in exchange for a reduced jail sentence. can you tell us a little bit more detail about what his expected sentence is and is he serving at ryker's island? >> having done this for some time, something that i found to be really important, not essential but important in handling this scheme is a narrator, an inside voice. so we thought that was important here. as you said, he entered a plea of guilty. agreed to testify truthfully. and he was a big piece of giving us sort of that inner workings so we could see it. you're right. he's now the next step is he's going to be sentenced. that's upgo to the judge.

but if you are sentenced to, you know, in the city, ryker's island is our city jail time. we expect it will be five months or six months. then that time with would be served in ryker's island. >> that is not a pleasant place. there is a lot of investigation into how inmates are treated at ryker's. this is something i'm sure he is not looking forward to. and, yet, there is some talk because your investigation thus far has not indicted president trump and because there is this evidence that we showed at the beginning of our segment with his name on the document that's mr. weiselburg could be pushed even further inld an investigatn into mr. trump himself. is that barking up the wrong tree as it were? if one thinks that is something that could happen?

>> we follow the facts where they take us. here the nature of the cooperation was testified truthfully as to the transactions this tax fraud. it was limited there. you know, it was something that certainly in other cases i've done broader cooperation. you know, that's something that ultimately is up to mr. weiselberg. that decision whether or not to share more. if there is more for him to share. we'll continue to follow the facts as your lead talked about. so this is a chapter in the book. a consequential book, conviction for corporation founded by a former president. you sue this stupendous team in court. we had other members of the team that are continuing the broader investigation.

we'll take where the facts take us. people have things of interest to us.in we'll certainly listen. >> what is your message to other people who are investigating the former president right now? there's a lot of swirl. should people feel embolden by the conviction you won? >> i have no message. i've been doing this for 20 plus years. i'm a former federal prosecutor. as your lead talks about with department of justice is doing, those are accomplished lawyers that are now we have a special counsel that happens to be an alum of the manhattan district attorney's office. but they're doing their investigations. we're doing ours. we'll proceed at pace. i'm sure they're doing what we're doing which is following the facts. as i understand, there are different pieces of conduct. and so we're going to do our job. we're going to follow the facts as they apply to conduct in manhattan. and having worked for the department of justice and the new york state attorney general's office, my understanding and what i would expect to happen is that others doing the investigations will

follow the facts where they take them in their jurisdiction. >> you have thus far managed to do something few have which is hold s the trump businesses accountable. a trump, whether it's an organization or charity, has been held accountable by you and those in your office. congratulations. i think the american public is eager to see how this book that you're working on ends. thank you so much for your time mr. district attorney. >> thank you for having me. appreciate it. >> coming up, former u.s. attorney general eric holder joins meey to discuss a controversial legal theory that could up end democracy as we know it. but first, senator rafael warnock was in washington, d.c., after winning his insanely high stakes runoff election. cory booker weighs in on that victory right after the break. stay with us. ryory right after . stay with us if you have diabetes, then getting on the dexcom g6 is the single most important thing you can do. it eliminates painful fingersticks, helps lower a1c, and it's covered by medicare.

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you are down to your last life. oh no. the legend tells of a wishing star. that star will get me my lives back. the wishing star is in the dark forest. 1, 2, after you. wait, what? dog, still alive? let's go find out. the last time it happened was in 1934. it was the middle of president roosevelt's first term in office. he had already signed in law much of the new deal, the economy was growing again for the first time since the start of the great depression. and everything incumbent democratic senator kept his seat. that kind of senate victory for the party in the white house never happened again. until last night. when georgia senator rafael

warnock won re-election. >> i am georgia. i am an example and an it rags -- iteration of its history and pain and promise of the brutality and the possibility. but because this is america, because we always have a path to make our country greater against unspeakable odds here we stand together. thank you, georgia. >> last night georgia made history a couple times over. and re-electing warnock, georgia elected the first full term black senator and ensured that all incumbent democratic senators kept their seats while expanding the democratic majority in the senate.

today senate majority leader chuck schumer welcomed senator warnock back to the capitol for a victory lap from the top of the capitol steps, he announced georgia did it again. earlier in the day, schumer made clear why he thinks democrats were able to make history. maga republicans. schumer argued that they thought that maga republicans had gone too far. that the january 6 hearings summer and supreme court rulings on dobbs that those showed voters that that wing of the republican party is something to worry about. and the man who represented that party was long time trump buddy herschel walker who first entered the political arena during the 2020 convention to deliver this very important message about his friend. >> it hurt my soul to hear the terrible names that people called donald. the worst one is racist. i take it as an insult that people think i've had a 37-year

friendship with a racist. people who think that don't know what they're talking about. growing up in the deep south, i've seen racism up close. i know what it is. it isn't donald trump. >> that statement from herschel walker came two months after black lives matter protesters were gassed out of d.c.'s lafayette square just before trump made his way there for a photo-op holding the bible as a prop. it was the same summer that trump called for law and order while racial justice protests spread nationwide. that is the person who endorsed walker and recently campaigned for him which makes walker yet another one of trump's failed cant dates and also shows yet again the failings of the republican party on whole. as the republican party has scrambled to sort out some kind of anti-racist message in a party who leader is known to give white sue supremacy a seat at the table, the reality is that democratic party is senting -- sending to the upper chamber first black senator from

georgia. and it is solidifying a diverse coalition. the people who voted for warnock who stood in those lines, they were black people, mixed race people and asian people and hispanic people and white people. that is the coalition warnock is representing. if warnock is georgia, he is also the democratic party. and joining us now is one of the 11 black people ever to sit in the senate who also is in the democratic party, our senator from new jersey, cory booker. senator booker, great to see you. thank you for being here. thank you for being with us to discuss this moment in american history. really does feel like an inflection point as we think about these two parties. i wonder what lesson you think people should take away from the events of last night as it concerns democrats and republicans? >> there is not just one lesson. there is a lot of things that

worked in warnock's favor from as mitch mcconnell said we have a candidate selection problem to the fact that we got so much done here is a guy two years in the senate and able to get extraordinary things done. as i joke with sharon brown today, he said he got a call after we passed the child tax credit, the biggest middle class tax credit in all of american history that went to 90% of americans with children and he had been working on his whole career. warnock said i got it done in a first few months. he led a lot of big bills. that's important. we have a nation showing state after state that this right-wing maga overreach whether it is seen in the dobbs decision and the bans on abortion, even in cases of rape and incest all the way to the insulting things that have been done to try to limit people's access to voting.

and so a lot of these things lined up. but i think perhaps the biggest one that i don't see being talked about enough is just how of an amazing person that rafael warnock is. he's one of the 11 black people that served. this institution has never seen someone like him. he is a pastor, martin luther king's church. i think he is only of 100 of us arrested protesting in the senate for the expansion of health care. he is a moral leader. first. not a politician. and i think that now that he is a full term, he's already extraordinary first two years are going to seem pale in comparison to the kind of grandeur that he's going to bring. we're in a moral moment in america and need more moral leaders that can raise our voices and speak to the moral imagination of a country. >> i think that is so well said. and you're so right.

i don't think folks have really haven't spent enough time discussing the singularity of reverend warnock. race has been such an important -- important unspoken -- it's many different things in this race in a lot of different ways. but race has played very much into the georgia runoff. not just because there are two black men running for the seat and georgia was going to send a black man to the senate no matter who won but for the curious relationship especially between the republican party and its candidate. i want to have your thoughts on it. she writes walker's candidacy is a fundamental assault by the republican party on the dignity of black americans. how dare they so cynically use this buffoon as a shield for the obvious failings to meet the needs and expectations of black

voters. they hold him up and say, see, our voters don't mind his race. we're not a racist party. we have black people on our side too. parading walker at rallies is some kind of blue ribbon livestock like some kind of blue ribbon livestock does not mean you have black people on your side. it means you're promoting a man willing to sing and dance on a world stage against his own best interests. is he in on the joke? does he know they picked him to save money on burnt pork? is that fair? is that how the republican party should be held accountable for the candidacy? >> there is a schism in this. they're going to struggle to find redemption. and unfortunately, the last few years as many people have left the republican party, i don't

think it's rising to this moment in history. and i'll be explicit. warnock gave a great speech about being elected on january 5th. and seeing this incredible moment where the former confederacy put forth the first ever black person and jewish person from georgia to represent the senate. he was feeling good and invited in all the tv shows and sitting there talking with whoopi goldberg on the view. but then the capitol was overrun. i was very aware on that day. what so much of those folks that attacked the capitol were about. they were calling the black officers the n word repeatedly if you talk to them and listen to the kind of insults and indignities heaped upon them, the racist language used. the first image i saw when i finally got to a safe location

and turned on the tv was the confederate flag. you see this far right extremism manifesting itself in this rise of hate crimes, rise of santy semitic violence in our country. and that's why warnock to me is the right leader in the right moment. because these lines as the voice said, the problem with the 20th century is the problem of a color line. we are at an inflection point instead environment turning against each other ahong racial lines, we need to turn to each other and realize, yes, there are powerful chords and threads of different races and religions. but ultimately, can we weave together one fabric and save

ourselves? and the republican party is being tested right now. and i fear that is having a president that said there are good people on both sides would not see marching failed that test and those folks who are -- have this allegiance to him and that far maga ideal that's don't yet at the same time understand that racism like that is not a threat to black people simply, it is a threat to the very idea of america. a truly multicultural and multireligious democracy. >> one more question. >> warnock will be in the senate for six years. he doesn't have to run again for some time. >> yeah. >> you are going to have him as a compatriot in your caucus and on the other side of the aisle going to have j.d. vance. when you talk about, you know, moderating the republican party,

the idea that the republican party is facing a test, are you confident that lessons will be learned here? is there anything that people like you and rafael warnock can do to help moderator show the republican party the light as it were? >> my colleagues may be the elect representatives, but 70% of this country wants common sense things like roe v wade. 70% of the country or more, actually 80% of nra members want common sense gun safety laws. capping prescription drugs which warnock led to $35 for insulin. the child tax credit, wildly popular with republicans. so we as americans, lines that divide us in congress are not the lives that divide us in this nation. and so this is moment in america

where i for one want the democratic party to begin to claim where most of america is on these issues. and i think that getting too obsessed with the sort of members that you mention undermines the larger mission in this country which is not just to harold the party but is to achieve justice. and i'm so happy that rafael warnock is one of the people that does not speak party first. he speaks justice, grace, mercy, and redemption first, values that are just as much p american values as they are human values. he is historic. you say 11 black senators. not only the fourth popularly lekted african american in the united states senate before me, it was obama. but i was teasing warnock today because we saw fetterman win,

warnock, i'm surprised you didn't mention at all that all of us are bald men and bald is back. i have to say that as well. >> that should be the take away from this election season. bald is back. senator cory booker, you wear it well, my friend. thank you for your time this evening. it's great to see you. >> thank you. may we bring healing. may rafael warnock bring healing to our nation. we have a lot of work to do. this is a moral moment. >> amen. coming up next, three conservative supreme court justices have signaled that they can accept a fringe legal theory being considered by the high court. one that could have major consequences for how elections are carried out in the u.s. former attorney general eric holder will join me to discuss right after the break. holder will join me to discuss right after the break. detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is for some adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment

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the congressional gold medal is considered congress' highest expression of national appreciation for distinguished achievements and contributions. yesterday police officers who defended the capitol on january 6 came to the capitol rotunda to receive that very honor. you can see the family members of those officers including the family of slain officer brie sicknick. and then -- and then ghet to the

outstretched hands of mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy. and there are no handshakes given. now we can't know exactly what was running through the family's minds. the fact of matter is that while republicans like mcconnell and mccarthy have sought to separate themselves from the anti-democratic mob violence that we saw on january 6th, they and the parties still very much champion anti-democratic tactics. whether that's giving a platform to extremists who promote the big lie or whether that is embracing anti-democratic theories to undermine legitimate elections, that is what the republican party is doing right now. today the party is doing it with help from the con seven servetive justices, senator mcconnell installed on the supreme court. today the justices heard oral arguments in moore v. harper. it is a case that could upend american democracy as we know it. at the heart of the case is the independent state doctrine, a theory that would allow state

legislatures to override the state court systems and governors in order to create their own election rules. now this fringe theory was concocted by john eastman trying to get states to send false slates of lektors to washington to overreturn the results of the 2020 election. and now republican state legislators from north carolina are trying to get the courts to declare that extreme legal theory the law of the land. the case itself revolves around north carolina republicans' attempt to gerrymandering. that would be the end of it normally. but north carolina republicans decided to use the insurrectionists favorite theory, the independent state legislature doctrine to say they didn't have to listen to their state's highest court. they were saying under our state constitution, the north carolina supreme court has a final say

but under this legal theory, we don't have to listen to the courts or the governor or anybody, really. we can do whatever we want. checks and balances be damned. at least three supreme court justices have already signaled that they are open to turning that theory into legally binding precedent. and that would have massive implications, not just for gerrymandering but for american democracy on whole. under a reading of the legal theory, republican controlled legislatures would be the ultimate authority here. not just on gerrymandering but on how elections are decided. they could theoretically send fake slates of electors to congress or just refuse to certificate fight an election altogether. after watching this conservative dominated supreme court take extreme positions on everything from abortion and gun safety how do he reveal that they hold democracy in their hands?

i'll ask former u.s. attorney general eric holder that very question and a few more coming up next. that very question and a few more coming up next. ♪ kevin! kevin! kevin? oh nice. kevin, where are you... kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. i'm gonna cashback on a gingerbread house! oooh, it's got little people inside! and a snowglobe. oh, i wished i lived in there. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! that it is! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. ♪

today the supreme court heard oral argue ams in a case that could uphend federal elections. it's the appeal of a case in which north carolina supreme court found the state's republican drawn congressional map is partisan and unconstitutional. at the heart of the case before the supreme court is the

so-called independent state legislature theory. that argues state legislatures have absolute authority over federal elections and electoral maps. before the start of oral arguments, eric holder now chairs the national democratic redistricting committee, released a statement saying in part, north carolina republicans are using a truly fringe legal theory to try to undermine our system of checks and balances, an extreme and dangerous move that held them accountable for violating the state constitution. that should not be a difficult decision for the court in favor of the respondents. one that would protect voters against extreme efforts to manipulate federal elections. anything less than that is unacceptable. joining us now is the man himself, eric holder, former u.s. attorney general and now chair of the democratic redistricting committee. mr. holder, thank you so much for being here even if the subject matter we're talking about should be ringing national

alarm bells. what do you think is going to happen here on the court? it seems as if it's possible that they take a more minimalist ruling on this. but that sounds like it could still be fairly detrimental to u.s. elections. how do you see this unfolding? >> yeah. i don't think will is any middle ground here. i don't think there is minimalist decision. this is a theory that has no basis in law, no basis in history. it is a tool devised bipartisans, by republicans to try to subvert a core part of our democratic system. that is our system of checks and balances. they're saying that state legislatures have the ability to gerrymander until their heart's content and do things inconsistent with the state constitution in this case north carolina and not have courts have the ability to look at that which the legislature has done and called them on. and force them to do as they did in north carolina. i mean when they came up with

their original map, they wanted to propose a map that would have ten republicans four democrats and a state that is roughly 50/50 when asked about it one of the republicans said why did you do a 10-4 map. he said because we couldn't draw a 11-3 map. supreme court says inconsistent with the north carolina constitution. we do the maps. the maps were done in a fairway. what do we get out of north carolina? a 7-7 split. that's something that they didn't like and they said all right. we'll take this to the supreme court on this ridiculous bogus fringe theory, the independent state legislature doctrine. and for any member of the court to put his or her name behind a decision even if it's a dissenting opinion to say there is some validity to this theory calls into question, you know, where that justice is coming from. >> yeah. to that end, i mean, even if

it's a narrow ruling, justice keegan today expressed concerns about it being used to fuel further conspiracies like the fake elector scheme. if the court does not stake out a very clear position on this, how concerned are you that it could be weaponized necessity elections down the line to support theories like the ones proposed by john eastman to allow states to send fake electors in to congress? >> but that's exactly the point. we're not talking about something theoretical. we only have to look at that which the january 6 committee exposed. it shows that john eastman wanted to use this very theory as way to subvert the peaceful transfer of power. this the case before the court deals with gerrymandering but it could be used in the way that john eastman proposed. i think as neil described it, he said the collateral damage that

could be done by an inappropriate decision here is pretty vast. our democracy could be harmed. >> do you have sans of dread? for everybody who watched what the court has done in the last year, i mean, some people think it's a forgone conclusion they're going to support this. do you have a similar amount of trepidation? >> i really don't. because i think this truly would be a bridge too far. in you look at those who came against this, you have former republican governors. you have the confidence of state supreme court justices. you have conservative legal scholars including one of the co-founders of the federalist society, former republican judges, conservative judges. all of the people who i think these folks would look up to and who they look to for guidance or

supporters. serve against this theory. even people on the fringe are supportive of this extremely dangerous democracy threatening theory. >> because you mentioned january 6 and because you mentioned the frinth, and because you are a former attorney general, i have to ask you about comments made by january 6 committee member adam shift today saying he believed that president trump, let me get this correct, has committed a crime. now we know the january 6 committee is going to be making criminal referrals to the doj as someone who wunts worked at the doj. how much weight does something like a january 6 committee's criminal referral have? if they refer president trump for criminal indictment, how much weight would that carry at the doj? >> yeah. i think it is certainly something taken into account. i think the more important thing

is for the justice department to get from the january 6 committee all of the material that it has accumulated during the course of inquiry. interviews, witness transcripts, any evidence they have gathered. that is the material that the justice department will use in making a determination as to whether or not the former president should be indicted. but i don't want to, you know, in any way minimize the importance of what the committee appears ready to do which is to make the criminal referrals. i think that is something that the american people need to look at, need to examine and understand the seriousness of that act. a committee, a bipartisan committee of congress looking at all of the material that they have accumulated and presented to the american people will have made a determination that some people should be held criminally liable. that is a big thing. >> it is a big deal indeed.

eric holder, former attorney general of the united states now chairman of the national democratic redistricting committee. pleasure to have you on the show. thank you for your time and wisdom. we'll be right back. for your ti wisdom we'll be right back. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're

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. >> that does it for us tonight. "way too early" is coming up next. georgia's high stakes senate runoff is over. the gop blame game is just getting started.

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