of those first two years, and we're seeing in how they're doing it, we're getting a look. five letters, five agencies, and republicans already saying -- signaling, some of their targets about internal deliberations already asking for specific e-mails. >> yeah, afghanistan. the border, hunter biden, and even the january 6th investigation. a look into that as well. just among many targets. >> origin of covid, how the justice department deals with school boards, lots of hot buttons. >> great to see you, my friend, and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. trump's legal team announced that they have completed a search of two of trump's properties. they searched his properties and did not find anymore classified documents. his team did find at least two classified documents in a storage locker had keeps in palm beach. according to a source, they

found the documents alongside suits, swords and wrestling belts. you know, it's a sad day when you realize your former president's storage unit and your 5-year-old son's christmas list are exactly the same. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it's thursday, december 8th. a lot to cover this morning. donald trump's legal team hands over more classified documents to the fbi. this time the items were reportedly found inside a storage unit, and was that jimmy kimmel, he was not joking when he said they were alongside swords, wrestling belts and other things like that. "the washington post's" jackie alemany is here to break down the new reporting on that. plus, republicans try to figure out where to place the blame after the latest senate loss in georgia. some, but not all of it, has landed on donald trump. we'll have the latest on that. and new reporting that the january 6th committee plans to vote on criminal referrals when

it releases its final report on the capital attack. >> and this morning we have a date for that. we'll tell you exactly when to expect that vote, along with joe, willie, and me, we have former chief of staff to the dccc, adrian elrod, white house editor for "politico," and the host of "way too early." the white house bureau chief at "politico," good to have you back. glad you're feeling better. see you soon. a lot has been happening in politics. georgia, the republicans, donald trump just has had the worst month ever, and baseball. >> aaron judge, xander, to san diego. >> i teed him up, i guess. >> i mean, it's just -- congratulations. what a great guy. aaron judge is such a great guy. congratulations to him. for us lowly red sox fans, you know, the mountain just keeps

getting harder to climb. xander to san diego. he apparently was insulted by the three coupons. all you can eat buffet in pensacola. did not think -- he thought he deserved a little more than that, and so there goes xander, just like everybody else. i'm telling you, it's a good buffet. if you drive through pensacola on i-10. take a right. barn hills, it's really good. obviously not enough to hold xander. he doesn't get down to pensacola that much. everybody is focusing on donald trump right now, and the fact that he's a historic loser. politically he's causing just historic losses, and a lot of republicans are figuring that out, but, you know, there's another story sort of below the surface that i really am fascinated by, and that's ron na

mcdaniel, the head of the rnc. she's lost every year. she lost in 2017. she lost in 2018. she lost in 2019. she lost in 2020. she lost in 2022. now, in washington where winning matters and losing is punished, you know, somebody like her would have survived one term. two terms. they would have said you've lost, you're out. but what's so fascinating is these trumpists, they came and they were talking about the swamp, and it being too clubby. stuff like this did not happen in clubby washington. if you lost six years in a row when you were running a party. you never get that chance. you were out. i find it remarkable that these trumpists are also clubby. it reminds me -- and i'm dead

serious, the university of alabama before nick saban came in. a bunch of old players, a bunch of rich alumni. they had their little organization. you're either on the inside or the outside. bear bryant either had touched you in passing or he hadn't. and alabama just kept losing. and finally they said, we're going to get a guy who knows how to win. and all that matters. and they got saban. and all of these other people were pushed to the side. all the nonsense was pushed to the side, and saban focused on what happened on the field. what i find remarkable with the swampy, and they are the swampiest of swamp creatures and the clubiest of club creatures is they're so swampy. and they're so clubby that they don't even notice that they've lost in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020,

2022. that they allowed joe biden to do something that no president had done since fdr. and they're still doing nothing about it. they're still not really speaking out. lindsey still won't speak out on donald trump. i haven't heard mitch use his name, saying trump can't be the person. there's a lot of generalities. the thing is he just keeps losing. at this point again, republicans have to understand, democrats want this guy to win the nomination in '24. they're praying this guy wins the republican nomination in '24 because he is -- literally, he is the biggest loser in american political history. worse than herbert hoover at this point now, and yet, isn't it fascinating, these people that cursed the swamp, the cursed the clubbiness of washington. they have become the swampiest

creatures, the clubiest creatures i have ever seen in washington in my life. >> remember, ronna mcdaniel got the job as rnc chair because of the allegiance she pledged to donald trump. now you're chaining yourself in ronna mcdaniel to someone who's going to stay with donald trump. he prizes loyalty, and that's why she has the job. there's talk of challengers. lee zeldin, ran a really good race in the state of new york, and almost pulled off an upset in the governor's race. he has bowed out of it. there was talk of the pillow guy. mr. pillow was going to be the head of the rnc. doesn't look like that's going to happen. busy shopping season with the shipments of the pillows. and you can say the same thing about rick scott who are pulled the impossible. handed the senate to democrats in a year where there's 8% inflation, all the historic challenges we have talked about

with the incumbent party in off year elections and somehow gave a seat to two democrats. it was a terrible midterm election right up to the end with herschel walker for the republican party who claims now to be soul searching but is it really if they won't unchain themselves from donald trump. >> all of trump's candidates except for j.d. vance lost. >> what's so fascinating is gerard baker yesterday in the "wall street journal" said, okay, now we're so afraid to tell the truth about donald trump we're going to say that joe biden is the greatest political genius of all time. we are now saying he has the genius of eisenhower, the genius of reagan, the genius of fdr, and we won't talk about the elephant that is in the room. and that is a guy that is absolute political poison to our party. they won't do it. it's amazing.

you just, again, it's breathtaking. he loses for the party in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, in georgia to left of center senators who would never, and i mean ever get elected in red state georgia. they're elected. they're elected two years ago, and now senator warnock's going to be there for six years, and so much of it is a reaction, again, to donald trump. they can't quit him and democrats right now are praying they don't quit him. because -- >> keep on keeping on. >> he's done more to destroy the republican party than anybody since fdr. >> we're going to have more on the blame game in just a moment, and boy is it a blame game. two more documents, though, with

classified markings were discovered at a florida storage facility not far from trump's mar-a-lago home and club following a search carried out at the direction of trump's attorneys. that's according to two people familiar with the documents who spoke to nbc news. they say the documents were turned over to the fbi confirming a report first published in the "washington post." but the nature of the documents was not revealed. the discovery comes nearly four months after fbi agents executed a search warrant at mar-a-lago and found more than 100 documents with classified markings, including some that were labeled top secret. the storage unit where the new documents were found is in west palm beach, run by the general services administration. one of the sources said trump had never been inside that storage facility himself. "the new york times" reports the discovery came after trump's lawyers hired an outside firm to

conduct a series of wider searches that were completed around thanksgiving at trump properties. those properties include trump's golf club in bedminster, new jersey. trump tower in new york, and a storage closet at mar-a-lago. the discovery of the new documents is further evidence that trump and his team did not fully comply with the grand jury subpoena issued in may, seeking all documents marked classified, still in their position. the fbi declined to commend. the justice department has been conducting what it has described as an active criminal investigation into whether the white house documents found at mar-a-lago were mishandled, as well as possible obstruction of justice. it seems like the doj, the fbi r best to give him a chance to hand over the documents. this is really quite remarkable. >> they have been very patient starting with the national

archives asking for a year and a half, could we get the documents, could we get the documents, and when they went and seized the documents, the government, are you sure there's not more, keep looking. let's bring in congressional reporter for "the washington post," jackie alemany, she is an msnbc contributor. good morning, what more can you tell us about this story? this was, as mika pointed out, this came from within trump's circle of lawyers. let's hire a firm to see if there's more stuff. mar-a-lago, trump tower in new york and let's go check out this storage unit. >> right, willie. that's exactly right but it also came at the behest of the d.c. circuit judge barrel howell and after multiple concerns were expressed by counter intelligence head jay brat. basically prosecutors, the doj, the fbi continually expressed concern that trump and his folks had yet to fully comply with that original grand jury

subpoena that was issued in may that requested and demanded that all classified documents, all documents with classified markings on them be turned back to the fbi and the doj. that included documents not just at mar-a-lago but at other locations, hence why you're now seeing after the judge instructed his lawyers to continue to search for these documents at all other trump properties. so, you know, most recently, we had the search happen at the life storage unit, which as mika noted is being paid for, was being paid for by the general services administration, and that was storing sort of a hodgepodge of materials that the former president had at the white house. and then transferred to florida after he left the white house. prior to that, during the week of thanksgiving, there was a search of trump tower where this outside team of lawyers attested

they didn't find classified documents and previously bedminster. at the life storage unit, they did find two documents or two items with classified markings, which i think really underscore not just sort of the break down of distrust between prosecutors and the trump legal team but the fact that the former president was not taking care of these classified documents that he didn't not just improperly take them back to mar-a-lago, but that he had in some instances, had completely lost track of where these were, and that they were not in any sort of proper storage unit. >> jackie, sam stein here, i want to pick up on that, the negligence element of it. i'm not a lawyer. i'm married to one, but not in this particular field of law. what kind of liability do you have for negligence in keeping these documents and storing them and not keeping track of them, and more broadly, the other question i have, we have seen the department of special

counsel. it's not necessarily for this case but could be. i wonder how these legal issues bleed together or if they are on separate tracks and what kind of vulnerability that means for trump? >> yeah a lot of good questions, sam, they are all on parallel tracks under jack smith's, the special counsel's purview, and actually the documents investigation is moving at a more rapid clip than the january 6th investigation. and there is some speculation that if the special counsel were to ultimately land on an indictment, that that would come first with the classified documents instance. as for the liability for the former president in really not caring and mishandling and inappropriately taking these documents and the liability he has for that, that's exactly what prosecutors are trying to discern right now. people have gone to jail for far less. sandy berger, and many others just go look at the national

archives web site. they've got a very long laundry list of people who have inappropriately taken classified information or presidential records throughout the years, and again, have faced criminal charges. but, you know, prosecutors want to get a rock solid case down. we have talked a lot about the espionage act and where this falls on the sliding scale of the severity on the espionage act, and as my colleagues, develin barrett and josh previously reported, right now prosecutors are viewing trump's motive as more -- less trying to sell state secrets and more motivated in the fact that he wanted to keep these documents. it was ego driven. he felt like these items, the letters from kim jong un and other high profile presidential items were his regardless of that, though, he still could face some very similar criminal charges. >> "washington post" jackie alemany digging deep on this

story. thank you so much, we appreciate it. with the midterm elections officially now in the rear view mirror after the result in georgia on tuesday night, a number of republican lawmakers yesterday directly blame former president donald trump for his party's shortcomings. >> president trump lost again, and i know a lot of people in our party love the president, former president, but he's, if you will, the kiss of death for someone who wants to win the general election. >> i think his obsession with the 2020 election he became an albatross and a real liability for people in swing states. >> i think he's less relevant all the time. again, even if you capture all of the trump voters, you may be able to win a primary, but you're not necessarily going to win a general election. >> those candidates most closely associated with former president trump underperformed. that is objective. and those who tended to have a

little more distance tended to do better. >> a collection of republicans blaming donald trump. not all were ready to go there. some pointed to the party's inability to earn more mail-in and early votes, ignoring the fact that donald trump has spent years dissuading republicans from using early and mail-in votes. >> is former president trump's endorsement the kiss of death as another republican senator said today. >> one thing, they did a better job with early votes, mail-in, and early voting. i think people vote based on what they think is important to them. they don't vote because one of us tells them to vote this way. >> i don't think this is a referendum on president trump. this is a referendum of us learning the cycle of how to run an election. we as republicans need to learn about getting people out to vote. cat's out of the bag with early voting. >> donald trump's presence was so significant. republicans are ready to embrace him in 2024 as a standard

bearer. >> i don't quite see it that way. the trump factor helped some and hurt some, depending where you're at. biden's not overly popular, but they won because i think their financing system is so much better than ours. >> yeah, i wonder when lindsey is going to actually step away like he did after january 6th. lindsey, buddy, i have known you for a long time. i just want to give you a hint here, give you a tip. when your hero is sitting down with somebody who says they like hitler, when he's sitting down with white nationalists, who he claims he doesn't know who he is, but he's lying, just like he said he doesn't know who david duke is. you know, at some point you have to walk away from him. this just doesn't get better. it keeps getting worse, when he says he wants to terminate the united states constitution.

just because he gives him truth social the next day, i didn't say that, the voters obviously, showed you in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, that they're not as dumb as you and other republicans think they are. in speaking of dumb, speaking of dumb, adrienne, a certain former auburn football coach who's now a republican senator said, well, the cat's out of the bag in early voting. i guess we got to figure that out. adrienne, i don't know, and see, here's the thing, okay. i'm such a patient man, but the stuff i have been saying about donald trump being bad for republicans, i have been saying for six years. i've been telling republicans for six years. i've been talking about this early vote thing forever.

how many times have you heard me say on this show, that we republicans used to own early voting. absentee ballots, we owned it. if i didn't get 85% of absentee ballots, i was pissed off on election night, and i would do everything to work those people. i would call people overseas that were in the military. i would say, we're sending you an absentee ballot. we worked it. the election was over by the time the polls closed in florida because i would be pulling down a huge number of absentee ballots. i don't know, i think i'm going to go over to apple bees and get some riblets because i've won this election. it's over. >> he's feeling better. >> it's all over but the riblets, and they're acting, this is 1994, and i ate a lot of riblets from '94 to 2001.

but that was a long time ago, and they're acting like this is something new. like they act like, again, they're like little babies. you play peekaboo, they cover their eyes and they think that if they cover their eyes because they can't see anybody, nobody can see them, we can see them. they're acting really stupid. and they're pretending that the realities of modern politics still don't apply to them. they're just going to keep losing, aren't they? >> they are, joe, and look, i mean, to the point you made, both democrats and republicans have been running early vote programs for as long as i can possibly remember, certainly as long as i have been working in politics. what i could not understand, joe, this cycle in particular was this, you know, lack of ability to motivate their own voters to vote early or saying, if you vote early, if you vote

absentee, it's fraudulent. they're doing this to themselves. it's only hurting themselves, and they are saying to their vote, candidates are saying, don't vote early, vote on election day. case in point, georgia, it was raining in most parts of georgia this past tuesday which i'm sure hurt turnout among republicans who waited because that's what their candidates told them to do. wait until election day. democrats, we have been running strong early vote campaigns for a long time. it's a tale as old as time, so there's a lot of reasons, joe, that i can't understand the republican party. this is one that bewilders me, it's a tactic they're criticizing which both democrats and republicans have utilized for a long time. if you vote early, you can track your voters more easily, you can track where the progress is, where you need to spend more money. tweak your campaign strategy around it. this one baffles me as much as it baffles me. >> long time gop strategist,

karl rove weighed in on georgia's senate runoff, and he argues that republicans lost because of poor candidate quality at the hands of former president trump. in an interview with fox news digital, rove said quote, we had a terrible candidate who was well meaning but plagued with a lot of scandal, and was not particularly good on the campaign trail. he added quote, we ought to realize that trump's endorsement is not an inducement to support that candidate but a warning to beware. and jonathan lemire, we're seeing republicans on different versions of fox news, fox business come around on this going what's going on with donald trump? >> yeah, trump put out a ridiculous statement. saying his endorsement is key to a lot of republican victories. by the numbers, he endorsed a lot of winners who were in deep red districts who would have won

anyway. there's an analysis of his endorsement on the competitive races, the swing races, most of his picks for governor lost. most of his picks for tough house seats lost. and in the senate, only one, j.d. vance won. his other five choices, including herschel walker the other day. they all lost, and the balance of control of the senate went to the democrats, largely in part because the republicans fielded bad candidates, bad candidates who were hand picked by donald trump. we are hearing some grumblings among republican analysts like karl rove, like some senate leaders saying, look, maybe this is a moment to pull away from donald trump. we'll see if the rest of the party is ready to do that. we have been here before. republicans have had a handful of moments, "access hollywood," january 6th, chief among them, where they could have stepped away from trump. they haven't. right now, not just that he's politically toxic, he seems to

be a political loser. could that change their thinking? we'll have to find out in the weeks ahead. >> willie, when i talk to certain people in the republican base, they say everybody around me still likes trump. everybody is still supporting donald trump. there may be some washington senators saying one thing, but the question is at what point do the rank and file republicans get tired of losing all the time? i guess, i don't know, i mean, my mama always taught me to hate losing, to hate it, to loathe it. i can't do it. i am not confident enough to lose and be cool with that. right? driven by self-hatred since 1963, baby, when it comes to winning and losing. >> let's do therapy. >> no, i don't want to do therapy.

i want to win. okay. so this is what i don't understand about republicans, the same people they grew up their whole life, kids, they get participation trophies. oh, the feminization of storage, oh, like these same are now going, like, there's a war on masculinity, it's so bad. and they still -- they don't care that they keep losing. how do you wake up in the morning and go, i lost again. that's cool. >> i know. >> at least i got donald trump to follow on truth social. who thinks that way. >> okay. it's all right. he got a steroid for his sinus infection. >> this is my tribe, willie.

they didn't used to be okay with losing. >> they lose a lot. >> now they lose all the time, and they're really cool with it . >> we got it. >> while we're talking, mika is whispering a diagnosis to me. >> ears have been on fire. steroids, poor guy. >> i'm roided out, baby, i'm roided out. >> maybe they should get roided out. again, i'm not cool with people being all right with losing. >> i think they're also being embarrassed by trump, like personally embarrassed and they're okay with it. that's what i don't get. >> it's a serious point, joe, and something we were talking about yesterday the morning after the election is the rationale for staying with donald trump is power. if we stay close to him, we get power, we keep his voters close by, we win elections. so we put up with hideous stuff

going back to a muslim ban, banning a religious group from coming into the country, all the way up to what we have seen terminate the constitution, inviting to his estate, holocaust deniers, and anti-semites, all the things we know about him. the deal was, the bargain was, we get to keep power if we're looking the other way. if you're losing the elections and not getting power out of the deal, that's the question now. >> and speaking of john mccain, how crazy, mika, that in arizona. >> yes. >> people actually thought attacking the father of a modern republican party in arizona and saying we don't want any of your people here get out, okay, yes, it was cruel. cruelty. that's what they do, okay? >> but i'm saying they thought

it was cool to do that. >> okay. but it's stupid. >> yeah. >> again, how many times do i have to say it, my god, politics is a game of addition, not subtraction. when you insult people, you subtract from your vote total. when you go around going, i want to own the libs, i want to own everybody that doesn't agree with me 100% of the time. and by the way, there's a war on masculinity, i'm really upset. missouri won't stand for it, when you do that, you lose voters. and again, this is about -- i can't believe i'm having to say this, this is about winning voters. this is about making people want to vote for you. and why in december of 2022, after six years of losing, don't the republican party understand that by now. >> yeah, it was a good question. i'm going to go to break now. >> thank you, dear.

>> still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> mika, are you worried about me, mika? >> just, you know, i thought if we didn't go to break, you might start talking about -- you know what, we're going to go to break now. >> that's too bad, let's take a break. senator gary peters will weigh in on his party's success in georgia, and what it could mean ahead of 2024. plus, russian president vladimir putin warns that the war in ukraine could go on for a long time. what that could mean for continued aid to ukraine from the u.s. and other allies. he also talks the potential for nuclear. a highly anticipated netflix documentary from prince harry and meghan markle was released overnight, and we're going to explain why some of the footage in it is not what it claims to be. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. u're watchi" we'll be right back.

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welcome back, it's 35 past the hour. the uk's daily star put it this way quote publicity shy couple share most intimate secrets with 8 billion people. nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons has more on the highly anticipated netflix documentary series from prince harry and meghan markle that was released overnight. >> are you putting money before family? >> duchess harry and meghan in new york ahead of their docuseries, receiving an award for fighting racism. the couple relaxed and joking. >> thank you for coming. >> thank you for bringing me on this very special date night. >> netflix will stream the first three episodes. >> there's a hierarchy in the

family. >> the rest of the royal family have only seen two one-minute trailers. >> it's a dirty game. the pain and suffering of women marrying into this institution. >> even supporters anxious. >> i don't want harry and meghan to get to a point of no return. where they say things that the royal family takes such exception to the relationships can't be repaired. >> doesn't it make more sense to hear our story from us. >> the trailers have caused questions. this image, depicting hungry paparazzi is from a harry potter premiere. >> there has been analysis and outrage about the trailer. >> that's nbc's keir simmons with the report. let's bring in financial times ed luce, our royal watcher. ed has been, along with athena brown for years. ed, there are like five or six instances where they said, oh,

the paparazzi were all after us, and it was an especially terrible time, and then they have -- then they go to a clip of a harry potter premiere from 2011. then there's another part where you're supposed to feel bad for them because people are spying on them and taking photos from above. then you find out it was a staged picture from inside, i think it was windsor or somewhere else where they had picked the pool reporters to take the pictures, one after another after another. and all of this from a woman who claims she had no idea, she had never read what she was getting into and how shocking it is, and we just want our privacy, and just want to be left alone, and ching ching, cashing in. and right after the queen passes, going against absolutely

everything the queen stood for in her 96 years. >> yeah, i mean, i would say i am -- i was going to come on and talk about the american working class. then the royal question, the british royal family will do as a substitute. and it's an interesting question. they're very good at monetizing this. i don't have any special insights into meghan and harry's motives beyond that, but what they went through, i can understand given harry's mother, you know, the end of diana, i can understand why he's pretty paranoid about the fate of women who marry into the family, why, you know, they might have left the family. i think, though, the fact that they invited oprah winfrey to their wedding, having never met her just suggests that there was a larger sort of -- there was a sort of larger ambition,

branding ambition, even before it went wrong. but as i say, you know, my royal watching is pretty limited. >> that was pretty good. >> that's pretty good. >> i don't think you'll get deep insights from me. >> let's go to willie. >> sure. >> again, this whole thing is like, we can't stand the glare, oprah would you come to our wedding. i can't stand the glare. oprah, let's do a long interview where we're going to drop some bomb shells and not prove the bomb shells, and harry is going to look as if he was shot out of a cannon, stunned by where the interview is going, and so shocked and scared, what do they do, go to santa barbara and this massive netflix deal. maybe they're taking down their family. >> i also invited oprah to my

wedding without having met her. it was a polite pass. again, i'm not an expert on this. i'm more interested in aaron judge and xander bogaerts, than meghan and harry. the idea that they get to tell their story. didn't they do that in the oprah interview. i think we did. we heard a lot of the story in great detail, so, look, they signed a huge deal with netflix when they moved to l.a. a couple of years ago. they had to produce something for netflix to justify all of that money, mika, and i guess this is it, a retelling of their story. >> and, joe, to your point, i think what we're going to find in this, and what we have heard so far, a lot of the editing is a little bit less than honest, you know, talking about not having privacy but potentially showing shots that were set up from inside the palace. so it's going to be a lot about how they put it together and

what they said, and why. >> and also, we don't like the invasion of privacy. can you bring the 500 cameras in the living room, and get the picture of me crying on the couch. how is the lighting, oh, i'm crying now. >> i know. >> so ed luce. >> he's a skeptic. >> let's talk about the american working class. it's apparently tough out there from santa barbara to the hollywood offices of netflix to working america. tell us your story that's not about the royals, who i promise we really care about it. >> i'm enjoying this sort of roller coaster ride through different demographics. well, what i have been writing about is the concern notwithstanding the fact that this was a good midterm election for democrats, that even then the shift of blue collar votes

of all races. we're not just talking about white working class. we're talking about hispanics, 40% of whom voted republican. the shift of the blue collar vote to the republican party is a flashing red warning sign for the democrats that has been a patent now over the last three cycles and the question is why this is happening and what they can do to stop it. the results last month were overwhelmingly powered by female graduate voters. by white cottage voters. the democrats are a party increasingly of higher education. they're of higher education and ethnic minorities. if the ethnic minorities, even african americans, one in five now, voting for -- african-american men voting for republicans. if they're shifting to the

republican party, away from what should be their natural home, the democratic party, that is a worrying signal that the party needs to do more to address, and it's -- i don't think it's being debated enough, frankly, much as i love talking about harry and meghan. >> the piece is entitled america's ship wrecked working glass. you write in part, it's been a bumpy 50 years for blue collar america, not only has labor share of u.s. national income steadily dropped barring a few brief patches, chiefly in the 1990s internet boom, but its life expectancy has also been falling. having secured the country's first avowedly pro union president since lyndon johnson, a turning of the corner ought to be in sight. the fact that it is not is less a reflection on how joe biden on the biases of the system he heads his party is never the last on the hook for its failure

to deliver by 2024. democrats will have controlled the white house for 20 out of 32 years, yet the federal minimum wage is stuck at 7.25 an hour. democratic rhetoric is strongly pro working class. the party's actions are another matter. working classes of all colors have been steadily drifting toward the republicans. more americans with household income below $50,000 voted republican than democratic last month. the pattern has become clearer in each of the past three elections, it expands all regional groups including african americans, and that is a weak spot for democrats, joe. >> it is, and back in '94 when i first ran, i remember we were all shocked that white working class voters, making under $30,000 at the time voted overwhelmingly for us, and that was something new. that was something people were

trying to figure out. adrienne, during the 2020 election, you and i had a lot of discussions about concerns inside the biden camp that especially among men, especially among black men and hispanic men that there were working class voters, people of color who were normally democrats that were starting to break toward the republican party. now, of course, on the other side, you have suburban women, suburban men, educated voters that are breaking strongly toward the democratic party, that have been republican their whole life. if people want to know, that's the offset, but there's no rule in american politics that you can't have both, so how do democrats hold on to these suburban voters who think a lot of republican views are retrograde on social policy issues and at the same time keep working class voters voting

democratic with policies? >> yeah, joe, i think it really comes down to messaging, and the thing that drives me crazy about being a democrat is that we are the ones who are passing the inflation reduction act which put more money in the pockets of middle class families. we are the ones that led the effort to pass a bipartisan infrastructure bill. we're the ones delivering for middle class, working class families. for some reason, there's a disconnect. a lot of it does have to do with the culture wars that trump elevated. >> can i ask you about that, adrienne, can i ask you about that really quickly? >> sure. >> wherever i go across the country, i hear people saying, i don't want everybody's head to explode, i know you hear it, too, adrienne, but i have people saying, you know, that desantis guy, i don't know what he's like, but i agree with him on that don't say gay bill. i don't want my second grader to be taught whatever. and then they all have a story about what's going on in

college. there are all of these social issues where it seems to me the 5% of the democratic party that's very progressive, their views have somehow been seen as balanced out and dominant in the entire democratic party. that is a real concern for working class voters. >> sure. absolutely. and, you know, i think an extent of what we saw in the midterm election, voters told us they want effective moderate goffer -- governance in many respects. they don't want to talk about the woke culture, they don't want to feel that they're going to be criticized for saying something that might be a little off or that they didn't mean to, you know, intentionally say, you know, is not being a productive part of the conversation, and i think, again, that's what we saw in this last election. we, you know, obviously a lot of trump-endorsed candidates lost,

and also candidates on the democratic side also lost. i think it's something we have to work on. >> people want to make more than 7.25 an hour or 50,000 a year. >> let's bring in the conversation, the president and ceo of the national urban like, marc morial. >> great to see you. >> ed's piece about working class americans, white, black, latino. in some places toward the republican party. >> interesting perspective. but what were the results of the election? >> in georgia. >> no, on a national basis. the democrats managed to do something they've not been able to do in a long time. which is to some extent, not lose ground in a midterm election. in a significant fashion. this election cycle was a win

for chuck schumer, for joe biden. notwithstanding that, i think the democrats managed to turn their vote out, when to the best of your knowledge out the vote in the midterm has historically been a systemic issue, back to clinton, to obama, even in the bush years, difficult to get the vote out in the midterm election. as to working class voters, i think you got to acknowledge a few things. the white working class is a shrinking component of the electorate. number two. to suggest that black men in large numbers voted for republicans is just not borne out by the facts. yes, blacks like any other group of folk varied in their political views, have different positions. here's what i think this election shows for democrats or republicans, you've got to build a coalition. you can't simply be idealogically in one place, and candidates that have the ability

to do that are ultimately going to be the ones who are going to be successful. >> let's talk specifically, mr. mayor, about what happened in georgia a couple of days ago. the operation that democrats built there over several years, the campaign that senator warnock ran there, not just focused on atlanta. not just focused on the suburbs where he cleaned up, but to your point, going to rural communities and talking about peanut farmers. >> a remarkable candidate, rafael warnock, a measured, disciplined candidate who said i'll talk to all voters. a candidate, a u.s. senator who said you know what, i'll sponsor legislation with ted cruz and marco rubio, and yet i'm going to maintain my basic values. an interesting model and maybe a pathway forward for candidates. i think in georgia what you had, guys, is something which is an on the ground grass roots self-propelled operation, which wasn't tied to the candidate or to the party.

just people really fighting to save democracy, who wanted to vote to send a message. >> and that is what happened and it is incredible and we can stay on that, but i think ed's piece in the financial times, joe, really nails it, because it looks at what democrats can work for for the next election, where the weak spots were. when you have all demographics making under 50k, voting predominantly republican, that's a sign that there's work that needs to be done. >> right. >> in the words -- >> voting predominantly republican. >> in the words of wb childers. i want all the money, i want all the votes. if you're trying to figure out how to nail that, and mr. mayor, you are right. this was a remarkable coalition, right, not just in georgia but across america where you have former republicans.

you have democratic moderates. you have the progressive base that's getting out there and pushing and charging so much. you've got swing voters. you've got independents. you have all of the trend lines moving in the right direction. i want to ask you, though, are you concerned about working class americans? saying it just doesn't make sense economically that they're going to the party of billionaires. that they're going to the party that gives the biggest tax cut in the history of this country, and more money to billionaires and multinational corporations and less money for medicaid, less money for medicare, they're promising to cut social security and medicare. they're promising to make poor and middle class people pay higher taxes. isn't this something the democratic party should be able to jump on and bring those working class voters home? >> you are absolutely right, joe, and with those voters, you've got to demonstrate you're fighting for them every day, for

the minimum wage, for the child tax credit. you're fighting for them every day. and you're pointing out that things like child tax credit and minimum wage couldn't get through the congress because of the senate filibuster. and mitch mcconnell's republican caucus, so i think you're right. you've got to demonstrate that you're working and fighting. you've got to connect, you've got to go into those communities, those neighborhoods, you've got to talk to voters. the idea that you only talk to those who you consider to be your supportive base is not what american democracy is about, i think people have to talk to your base, that we are learning now, back to an earlier message, you've got to build a coalition to win in american politics. the country is too dynamic, too varied, too, if you will, diverse in many many ways, that just fealty to a base or to a specific ideology is not going

to win on a national basis. >> jonathan. >> hey, ed, your piece is out, suggesting how democrats can better address them. what about the cultural issues the white working class have rallied around and are amplified by donald trump but also in the conservative media and places like fox news? >> there's clearly, you know, a racial component to trumpism and to the white working class's shift which has been more pronounced than other demographics to the republican party, and there's no disputing that. but the -- and i don't disagree with any of what's been said. the republican party economically offers nothing more than trickle down economics to blue collar america which amounts to really nothing in practice. if you do around america, whatever i do, and all of you know this better than me. and you find that blue collar

americans are economically populist, they would like better health care, parental and sick leave. they would like all the things the democratic party tries to get for them, and often fails to get for them. the appeals to them on that basis tend to rebound, tend to boomerang back on them. i think we underestimate the degree to which public safety and security on the streets is a concern of all groups, including african americans and the polls back this up strongly. african americans want to see police on the streets. they want to see police abuse dealt with, but they want to feel safe in their neighborhood, and so the idea that if we talk about crime, it's some kind of a racial dog whistle. we've got to get over that. not everything is fox news. >> u.s. national editor of the financial times and also our royal watcher, ed luce.

and president and ceo of the national urban league, marc morial, great to see you. and still ahead on "morning joe," a look at the morning papers, including the impact of the earliest spike of flu cases in recent memory. and later, a look at how the outbreak is driving a commonly treatments for children. and the committee that helped the democrats expand their senate majority, senator gary peters will be our guest on "morning joe" straight ahead. "morning joe" straight ahead my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

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it's the holiday season, and today in new york we got an early christmas gift. aaron judge is coming back to the yankees. yes. [ applause ] that's right. yankees superstar aaron judge has decided to stay in new york, agreeing to a nine-year, $360 million contract. when you heard that, babe ruth said, what the hell i got paid in peanuts and cracker jacks. >> welcome back to "morning joe," it is thursday, december 8th. oh, my gosh, we've got to get our christmas shopping done. are you done, willie? >> joe, are you done? i usually go out christmas eve. >> get good deals. >> adrienne elrod. >> i'm halfway done. >> jonathan lemire, are you

done? >> i made progress, but need to finish it off this weekend. >> sam stein, you're definitely done, right? >> i celebrate hanukkah, not christmas. >> oh, right. >> mika, how insensitive. good lord. >> sam, we're so sorry, mika will be writing you a note a little bit later, but how about -- >> eight notes, one a night, mika. the most general happiest of holidays to everybody out there in america. thank you. >> i'm just going to continue. as republicans struggle to figure out why -- >> wait a second, hold on. sam, what you're telling me is you don't buy your children christmas presents, right? >> well, it's complicated. >> no, it's not really complicated. if you're going to call out my wife on the show for asking if you've done christmas shopping. >> we buy a general holiday

season present, so mika is right, and i retract my snarkiness. >> on the packaging, you don't go where there's wrapping paper for christmas presents, you go to a store where there's general holiday wrapping and ribbon accessories. >> i choose the more generic wrapping paper. yeah. >> all right. so you guys don't ever say, merry christmas or you don't have, like, the christmas -- it's not christmas presents. here's your general holiday present. >> we light a menorah, as my people do. >> you should. you should, yes, definitely. >> we make, you know, pancakes. >> that's how it works. >> sweetie, i know that. i was just curious. you asked if he had bought any christmas presents and he called you out on national television.

>> the tone was wrong. >> fair enough. fair enough. the tone was wrong, and i apologize for that. and this year, we will be doing riblets, riblets for the kids, okay? >> somehow sam ended up apologizing. >> you should not apologize, know your value, sam. >> he's very polite. sam's very polite. >> i'm just trying to move this conversation along, if that's okay. >> i'll move it right along. >> you say you're getting riblets, though, i think that's good. >> for the kids. >> willie, are you guys going for your christmas eve? >> either there or chili's. i like to do my christmas shopping at cvs, an as seen on tv christmas aisle. >> it's very good. >> sam, thank you, i apologize.

and we move on. >> i apologize. >> i apologize, sam. as republicans struggle, speaking of no backbone, as republicans struggle to figure out why they didn't have a red wave, senate majority leader chuck schumer and democratic senatorial campaign committee chairman senator gary peters explained what they believed made the difference. >> in may and june the public began to realize how far right these maga republicans had gone. the dobbs decision was the crystallization of that, of course. when people said, wow, these maga republicans are serious about turning the clock all the way back. >> the contrast between them and their opponents was extreme. and one of the most powerful issues for us was the right to -- the choice issue. the abortion issue was clearly a motivating factor for our base

in all of our states. it got people out. >> and the turning point really occurred that summer, this summer, where we passed six major bills, five bipartisan, all of which affected people's lives. they were the things people wanted us to talk about, making the environment better, dealing with high cost of prescription drugs. helping our veterans. dealing with gun safety. getting american jobs here not in china with new industries in the c.h.i.p.s legislation. expanding health care. and they said, whoa, this democratic party is the party that i like. >> and democratic senator gary peters of michigan who you just saw there, joins us now. he is chairman of the democratic senatorial campaign committee. he also chairs the homeland security committee, and is a member of the armed services committee. senator peters, thanks for being with us this morning. i know you'll say today and maybe in the wake of the win in

georgia, yes, we knew this was going to happen, but can you say that you had some private moments over the last few months where you had deep concerns that you would not be sitting in this position and perhaps that republicans would control the senate? >> well, i'll say i don't know about deep concerns but obviously very cautious and understand that we had a lot of work to do. i was confident we could win as long as we continued to be focused on our messaging. you heard us talk about it in the opening there. there was a very clear contrast between where democrats were and what we were doing in the congress versus republicans. you know, in their ads they were talking about problems that everybody knew were problems. that wasn't new information, but they never talked about what they would do, whereas we were actually taking action from the inflation reduction act to reduce prescription costs to seniors, and while we were lowering the cost of seniors, every single republican was voting against that legislation. when it dealt with climate

change, dealt with standing up for veterans, when it stood up for making sure we were manufacturing in the united states with our c.h.i.p.s act. these were all positive concrete actions that we were taking as democrats to deal with the challenges that folks were dealing with. we saw that reflected in the numbers, but i was always very cautious about that. i knew these were going to be tight races, extremely tight in battleground races. it was going to go right down to the wire. i kept the faith, and we kept working and our candidates were able to clearly contrast where they were versus the extreme positions on the other side. as i mentioned in the opening there, the abortion issue was incredibly powerful, to motivate our base. people were angry about that. the only concrete action they saw from republicans were taking away fundamental rights from women, and that certainly inspire an awful lot of people to get out and vote. >> every incumbent senator won and you picked up a seat in

pennsylvania giving you the 51-49. and there was messaging that president biden was being too abstract, talking about democracy. we need to focus on pocketbook issues and abortion rights, but it did turn out people didn't like election denialism, people being put in office that might not honor that. how important was the foundational message about democracy? >> there's no question it was incredibly important, and i think it is -- it was a foundational issue, and that folks were really questioning, you had people running for office who were denying an election, which was clearly there are no facts to support, and folks are thinking, one, certainly that's a danger to our democracy, but do you really trust somebody who is just outright lying when it's very clear that there are no facts to support that position? you can't trust them on any

issue if they are able to do that on such an important fundamental issue. it helped paint the contrast when it came it our candidates, who were problem solvers, trying to address the issues people were facing, also making sure that democracy was strong and the great democratic republic of ours continues to flourish for years to come, versus the other candidates. it was a great opportunity for us to cut through a lot of the noise that you see on the campaign. >> a lot of people on the right now are writing columns that saying joe biden is actually underestimated and because joe biden is underestimated republicans have lost another election. and because he's underestimated, he has been able to pass the radical left wing agenda, of course. he's passed more bipartisan legislation along with you and other senators and members of the house over the past couple

of years than anybody probably since bill clinton. can you go through a list of some of the bipartisan accomplishments and, i'm doing this for a purpose because i keep reading about biden's quote radical agenda, and yet there's one bipartisan bill after another bipartisan bill after another bipartisan bill that is passed over the past two years when a lot of people in joe biden's own party said don't bother with republicans, they will never sign on to anything. in fact, a lot has been accomplished. >> i think that's a great point, and there's no question, president biden knows how to get things done. he knows how to bring people together and do it in a bipartisan way, and that's what we want to continue to do going forward into this next congress. but you mentioned some of those bills, infrastructure, for example, something that folks have been talking about for years. the former president talk about it the entire time he was in office, and could not get it

done. joe biden got it done. we got it done. we have substantial investments for bridges and highways and internet access in our rural areas or urban areas that don't have access to high speed internet can get it. basic infrastructure is important. that passed in a bipartisan way. the c.h.i.p.s act, that we're not dependent on foreign suppliers for critical components like computer chips which are in every product we use, passed in a bipartisan way. he was able to push through with us and working together in a bipartisan way on a veterans bill, some of the most significant support for our veterans who have gone into harm's way have come back with illnesses as a result of exposure to toxic substances. those veterans are being helped today because of those efforts by the president democrats working with republicans to pass bipartisan legislation, and i hope we can continue to do that in the next two years. >> senator, adrienne elrod here,

congratulations on, again, a great night on tuesday. i wanted to pivot to the georgia senate runoff. raphael warnock was able to get -- was able to make gains in i think 2/3 of the counties in georgia, and also the runoff was 90% of what it was in the general, which is, you know, a huge accomplishment given the fact that usually you have some dropoff. can you kind of explain how that happened, what tactics did the campaign use, to get so many people mobilized on a runoff election? >> well, first off, we had just an amazing candidate. rafael warnock is a great senator. and he was out there in the time that he was in the senate making a difference for people's lives in georgia, and he also localized that help. helping the port of savannah, for example, make sure that they were in a position to hire more folks in good paying jobs in savannah. working with some of the

military facilities in georgia to work in a bipartisan way to help a highway come into the state. so he was able to localize. he went out into all of those counties, all across georgia, and worked in a way to show people that he was making a difference. so that was incredibly important. we also had to put together the mechanics to make sure that voters knew what was at stake and make sure that they got out to vote, particularly when you have a runoff in december, people are not used to ever voting in december to make sure they understood what was happening, and to get them to the polls. georgia has been able to build a great ground operation over many years. stacey abrams had a great hand in all of that. but we leveraged that, and the dsec, and our focus throughout this campaign, has been focused on the ground operation. knowing that we were going to be in very close races. the difference in a close race is going to be your ability to get your voters out, to have an opportunity to touch people, and make sure that they're actually

getting out to vote. we invested more in our ground campaign this cycle than we ever have in history. in fact, for the first time, and this is a strategic decision that we made early, we put more money into ground operations than we did into tv and other types of media. i figured other people could do that. we needed to get our voters to the polls. >> senator gary peters of michigan, thank you very much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. "the new york times" examines former president trump's recent losing streak. in a new piece entitled donald trump and his terrible, horrible, no good, very bad three weeks. on the political side, there's his disastrous performance in the midterms, including the most recent defeat of his pick, herschel walker in georgia. >> that's bad. >> and the polls showing him trailing florida governor ron desantis for the next republican presidential nomination. >> that hurts. >> on the legal side, there is everything from the tax fraud conviction against the trump organization to losing court

battles over his tax returns, and the mar-a-lago documents case. >> wow. >> then in addition to his pre-thanksgiving dinner with an anti-semite and a white nationalist. >> that's really bad. >> not good. >> this is all horrible. >> came new photos of him posing with a prominent qanon conspiracy theorist at mar-a-lago on tuesday. what? >> yeah, the pizza gate person, right, i think. >> the piece in the times reads quote the losses and embarrassments are rapidly piling up aggravating long standing concerns among his fellow republicans that his 2016 victory may have been an aberration and his persistence with the comeback attempt could sink the party's hopes of reclaiming the white house in 2024. veteran republican strategist scott reid tells the "times" that trump's rushed 2024 announcement and his legal and political setbacks has

supporters and donors concerned adding quote abandonment has begun. a trump adviser dismissed concerns about the start of the campaign, saying quote, we're focused on building out the operation and putting in place a foundation to wage an overwhelming campaign. we're building out teams in early voting states and making sure we are positioned to win on all levels. and, joe, i see folks tiptoeing away, even on fox. i don't get my former boss, i don't want anything to do -- we have to take a listen. >> i don't understand what our former boss is doing. i love the guy, but i do not understand kanye west hanging out with white nationalists, hanging out anti-semitic people, talking about ending the constitution or postponing the constitution. i don't get it, i don't know why he's saying it. and if he says it, why hasn't he

given, you kno -- apologized for it or corrected the record or something, because he's losing support left and right. i hear it everywhere. >> i'm very concerned that there isn't a system in place where the president isn't button holed in sitting across the table at mar-a-lago, where you and i have been many times, having dinner with him, larry, folks are vetted and seated and there are no surprises at the last moment. he should completely distance himself from that. >> but he's got to make a statement, kellyanne, and he's also, this business about suspending the constitution because we learned there was, you know a free speech finagling with twitter. you don't suspend the constitution. he's got to get off 2020, he just has to. he gave a good speech when he declared for president. >> yes. >> although i think that was premature. it was a pretty good speech. since then, he has gone into a ditch. he'll never climb out of it. >> gone into a ditch. >> whoa. >> yeah, i mean, this is.

>> whoa. >> sam stein, obviously you're not just hearing this from larry kudlow, actually, we're starting to hear it from people that had been supporters of donald trump for quite some time. ben shapiro, before i think brit hume before the midterm, other loyalists were doing the same thing. it seems to be picking up. >> yeah, i agree with you. i think losing the way they did in the midterms on these critical races obviously does not feel good, and they want to -- they're out for a pound of flesh, but, look, i mean, trump has given them numerous off ramps over the course of several years, and they have not taken it. larry kudlow, you know, went to work for the guy after

charlottesville, after the muslim ban. brit hume has defended him through those as well. the dinner with nick fuentes. the dominant reaction was the dinner was quote ill advised, having an extra drink after a long night out. >> you were with a nazi. >> a dinner with a neo-nazi, that's not ill advised. i'm hesitant to say this is the breaking point, and they have finally gone over it, but if you look at it just objectively, the midterms were a disaster for trump. and this first month of his campaign, or, you know, three weeks whatever you want to call it, i can't recall a more problematic launch of a presidential campaign. the legal problems, he hasn't done a single event since that mar-a-lago speech. the fuentes dinner, the midterm stuff, the qanon stuff with pizza gate, what is going on

here, what is the theory for trump. i don't see it, and i think a lot of republicans don't see it either. i think they also kind of realized they're trapped in the vice with this guy because if you push away too hard, he takes 30 to 35% of your party with him. >> you know, willie, also, we always talk about the nazi guy that trump this dinner with. but kanye went on info wars and said that he liked hitler, right? mow, anybody else would distance themselves from a guy who said that he liked hitler, anybody else. but donald trump, oh, i didn't know that nick fuentes guy. of course he knew who he was. >> mm-hmm. >> and the question is, let's put the nazi to the side for a second and look at the other nazi who sold a lot of records. the guy who talks about hitler. the guy who wants to name his

last album hitler, loves hitler, hitler did all of these great things. donald trump has not moved to condemn kanye. he has not moved to condemn either of his dinner guests. there's no excuses. there's no way the republican party cannot be strapped with this going into the next election unless they push him over the side. >> donald trump's only rule is if you say nice things about me, you're good with me, even if you also say nice things about adolph hitler in public in the case of kanye. we were watching the clip, adrienne, of larry kudlow throwing our hands in the air, as if larry kudlow is shocked and stunned and saddened that donald trump might find favor with white supremacists and say outrageous things, and why won't he apologize for it? they're pretending this this

-- in this theater that they just met donald trump. it's been going on since we've known the guy. >> that's what's so comedic if you want to use that term to describe, you know, kellyanne, and kudlow, and other members. he's been saying things, doing crazy things. >> but they're doing it. the news is that this turn is happening because the other big question has been like, what is going to be the final straw, so for some, i understand the hypocrisy. >> sure. >> it's ridiculous. >> it's ridiculous, and look, i think the different factor here between, you know, these people disavowing him now, versus october 30th is that trump had a really bad night on election night, and now they're seeing some weakness. sam pointed out a really good point. they're walking the fine line, he still will have 30 to 35% of

the republican base, probably more than that, no matter who runs. they have to be very careful in terms of making sure they're not fracturing their own base of support, so it's interesting to watch. >> and let me just say again, we're in the convert business here. southern baptist just as i am, you play the invitational. if it takes them 16 stanzas to walk to the front, okay, we may be late in line at morrison's after church. maybe we go past 12:00, but we will take the people that are ready to move away from donald trump. that's not just good for the republican party. that's good for democracy. the question, though, right now, jonathan lemire, is are these republicans, are there party types that are going, wait a second, you know, donald trump may just run as an independent to spite us. at the end of the day, he made that threat to ronna mcdaniel after january 6th, after he left

office. is that a growing threat? is that why they're afraid to speak out against him? because he'll just take his people, run an independent campaign, split the vote, and elect joe biden again? >> there are some in the republican party who worry that could happen. we just discussed, he's got that solid floor of support that's not going anywhere. but i think most feel like it's still fairly unlikely. if he were to leave, wouldn't be raising money anymore, paying his legal bills. there are lots of reasons why he has tethered himself to the gop and would be difficult to separate himself at least to have any chance of winning and not having to spend a lot of his own money, which we know he is loathe to do. people around trump who i have spoken to in the last week or so are deeply frustrated. they're not surprised. he has backed himself into a corner. one of trump's cardinal rules, if you say nice things about me, i like you, i'm going to support you. another rule is never apologize,

never admit you were wrong. never say anything you did was a mistake, and he can't do that right now, even having dinner with kanye west, and nick fuentes, and he's fearful of alienated supporters. he knows deep down some of the people who share the hateful rhetoric are people who vote for donald trump. it's the same reason why he wouldn't distance himself from the proud boys and qanon. in recent rhetoric he embraced qanon rhetoric and their music. that's the fear here, he's not going to go anywhere, and yet also would be unelectable going forward and drag the rest of the party down with him. as much as party leaders have the concern, back to our earlier conversation, most of the party base, rank and file voters, at least for now are still with him. are still with trump. that's the thing that would have to change. >> to put a fine point on what john's saying about qanon, that

was not a chance meeting, the photograph, the pizza gate lady at mar-a-lago, that was an event she appeared, and they showed a documentary about sex trafficking in hollywood, which is at the core of the pizza gate argument. it's not like he bumped her into the patio. >> what you see and hear from donald trump, believe and you'll never get it wrong. still ahead on "morning joe," we're following several big headlines overseas. russian president vladimir putin weighs in on the ongoing war and warrants that the fighting might on for quite a while. plus, iran executes its first known prisoner in connection with the month long protests taking place across that country. we'll be right back. e across that country we'll be right back. ♪limu emu & doug♪ it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance

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iran has executed the first prisoner known for being convicted from an alleged crime in the ongoing nationwide protests in the country. the man had been accused by the regime of blocking a street and attacking a security force member with a knife. iran has been rocked by protests since september after 22-year-old mahsa amini died after she was detained by the country's so-called morality police. other detainees face possible death penalties for their involvement in the protests. joining us now, retired four star navy admiral, james stavridis, msnbc chief national and former supreme allied commander after nato. senior fellow at the carnegie endowment, kareemand former spokesperson for the united nation, hagal, she worked at the

nfc. good morning to you all. is this the beginning of something in that country. are we going to see more death sentences for protesters? >> the only tool that this regime has left in its play book is repression. they have no legitimacy left so they're simply trying to intimidate protesters into stopping. i would argue that iran's supreme leader is the longest serving dictator in the world, 83 years old, and he's now entering the classic dictators dilemma. if he doesn't offer prospects of change to his people, these protests are likely going to continue. they have been happening for three months now. but if he actually saturdays to apologize and maybe offer prospects for change that's not likely going to placate protesters either. it's likely going to embolden them. he's simply trying to repress his way out of it. >> he's not known for apologizing, as we were discussing in the break, can leaves oppression.

do you think the young protesters, most of them young in the streets will be discouraged and dissuaded in their efforts. >> this is a movement in iran, which reminds me, president zelenskyy in ukraine, and nelson mandela in south africa, it's a movement in iran which deeply realizes it's on the right side of history, and it's a regime on the wrong side of history. it can temporarily be delayed with repression but slogan of the protesters is we want to reclaim iran, it's a protest patriotism. >> we have seen movements, the green revolution in iran with some success, but always pushed down, repressed, is this time different the way you see it? >> it's certainly different for the people of iran. these protests span many socioeconomic classes. they are ongoing. they have been now three months, and there's no turning back for the iranian people. even when we hear banter that

the regime might be considering changes in the dress code or things of that nature, this is nothing more than survival mechanisms, survival tactics and, that's not going to appease the protesters at this point who want their freedom and dignity, and therefore the end of the regime. the thing that is a little concerning, the thing that -- the thing that you need to push this to the next level where the regime feels the pressure even more is a louder voice from the international community. and we're not seeing that including from our own government. >> jonathan. >> admiral stavridis, that's exactly where i wanted to go with you, what should the u.s. and west be doing right now? we have heard a little bit from president biden saying they support the protesters. to that just made point, has not been a loud voice yet. put this in a global context. what does this mean for the region, and what more should the west be doing? >> to take the first question

first. i think we, number one, have to publicize it, talk about it, shine the lights on it. when we get intelligence about what is happening, as we have done in ukraine, we ought to be sharing it. talking about it, shining a light, critical, important. number two, this is not the time to be negotiating a nuclear deal with iran. i think that ship has said, if you'll permit me a nautical met -- metaphor. this is a time for us in the united states to be working with our arab colleagues, so we're prepared for a dictator's move, in addition to karim's excellent points. the other move would be for them to take on a new lashing out, something that distracts the population. perhaps attacks throughout the region. so globally, we have to be prepared for that. and then final point i want to

make. it's important in this movement its protests, many of these are led by women and girls. this is quite remarkable in the span of history it's quite remarkable. i wouldn't bet against them. >> so karim, we saw extraordinary courage in the context of all of this at the world cup last week with the iranian men's team not singing the anthem. we heard the leader say this, calling for revolutionary reconstruction of the country's cultural system. so he's seeing this, he's hearing this. what does that mean exactly? is that just sort of we're going to change the name of the morality police? >> yeah, i mean, they are not going to change who they are. this is a system which is incapable of changing, and one of the lessons that ayatollah ha hamini learned from the collapse of the soviet union, it collapsed when gorbachev tried

to reform it. mika, i'm reminded of the wonderful book your father wrote "the grand transport," he called iran a pivotal country in the world. change in iran, we're talking about simply a change to the representative government or a government which prioritizes its national interests, this would be a geopolitical game changer for the united states and we would feel in russia and venezuela and north korea and elsewhere. henry kissinger said there are few nations in the world that the united states has more common interests and less reasons to quarrel than iran. admiral stavridis, do you agree with that? >> 100% agree with that. we tend to think of iran as this annoying mid level power in the middle east that is throwing sand in the gears. this is a nation that is the inheritor of the persian empire.

2,500 years ago, iranians, persians ruled over half the world's population. there is immense dna here, and i completely agree with karim, this would be an epic game changer to see a serious swing in iran. let us hope that occurs. and let's do what we can to support what is happening on the streets of teheran. >> so turning from iran to ukraine where vladimir putin's quote special military operation that was supposed to take mere days is now nearly ten full months. yesterday putin warned russian citizens to prepare for the war to drag on even longer. speaking at a council meeting of journalists and public figures, putin used the words long process to describe the nature of the war. the admission from the russian president is a far cry from the kremlin's rhetoric throughout the majority of the war. putin also said at this point

the kremlin will not conscript more troops adding quote there is no need. so many different sort of narratives going here. number one, how long can this war go into the winter until it gets to the point that both sides say, you know, this is ridiculous. this is just death happening here. we've got to talk. and also from watching putin's statements, he seems kind of not okay. not that he ever was, but something different. >> right. he's trying to make it seem like everything is okay. you've had two drone attacks from ukraine. >> more animated than usual. >> there are a lot of signs that, well, there have been signs for a few months now that things are fraying at the edgings. you have low morale, winter coming up. >> people turning on the war in russia. >> and the suffering is immense. the u.s. government came out to

say that the russian troops have suffered now over 100,000 deaths over injuries. and that's an immense amount, and the thing that putin is trying to make it seem to everybody, for example, the day after the drone attacks that came from ukraine, he was driving across the bridge to show that, look, it's being rebuilt, and he's trying to tell everybody, everything is fine. the thing is, you have a lot of concerning things here. on one hand, they're on the defense. russia now. but the problem is they have a lot of cards they haven't played yet, and it could get very ugly. they're pulling out what they can. they're striking ukraine with a barrage of missiles, which ukraine has gotten better at striking down but that doesn't mean it's not causing massive blackouts across the country, and massive suffering. that not only impacts the regular day-to-day of a ukrainian citizen but also their air defense systems. putin knows what he's doing. he hasn't pulled out yet, biochemical weapons, more

foreign mercenaries, possible nuclear weapons. when he gets desperate, he could very well turn to these things, which is why i continue to beat this drum about diplomatic negotiations, and i keep hearing over and over again, they're not ready. but they're going to massacre each other before they're ready. i always feel it's a silly argument to say that we can't go into diplomatic negotiations or push toward that because clearly he's ready to continue forever. >> admiral, what are you hearing putin's comments as a military commander yourself, do you hear desperation, do you hear resolve? what did you hear when you listened to putin yesterday? >> i hear a mixture, willie, and, you know, you always ought to be concerned when someone says we are not crazy here. that's what putin said yesterday. we are not mad as though he's not kind of mad king george with nuclear weapons. when someone has to reassure you what they're saying and they understand what a nuclear weapon is, you ought to be kind of concerned. on the other hand, i think putin is playing a very methodical,

straightforward game here, and i agree with hagar that it is time for us to be shaping the outline of a negotiation. here's the good news such as it is. after the winter plays out and putin sees that the europeans don't simply crack in the face of his energy embargo and after he continues to see defeat on the ground, and after he sees the ukrainian people continue to stand in great resolve in the face of this air campaign, after that plays out, i think putin will have to begin to consider how to negotiate at least an armistice here. on the ukrainian side, volodymyr zelenskyy, a man of immense courage, "time" man of the year, person of the year, i should say, as a result, he will

continue to go into those negotiations in a strong position. i think all of that may come together after the winter. could the russians continue to grind away at this? perhaps. but i think that the hand of cards that putin has is, in fact, beginning to dwindle. >> admiral james stavridis, thank you all very much for being on the show this morning. we appreciate it. and up next, sarah palin lost his most recent political battle but she did win the political war. "the new york times" reporter jeremy peters joins us with his look on how the party she helped transform has now moved past her. "morning joe" is coming right back. orning joe" is coming righ back i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪things are getting clearer♪ ♪i feel free to bare my skin♪ ♪yeah, that's all me♪ ♪nothing and me go hand in hand♪ ♪nothing on my skin♪ ♪that's my new plan♪

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one of the nation's key economic leaders making decisions affecting the finances of every american. a new book is taking a look at a fascinating closer look at treasury secretary janet yellen's impact on the economy, helping to steer the country through numerous and tumultuous economic twists and turns over the last two decades. and joining us now, senior writer for the "wall street journal," john hilsenrath, entitled of the book, yellen, the trail blazing economist who navigated the era of upheaval, there's so much to talk about, but i love what surprised you in your research. tell us about that. >> a love story. when she became treasury secretary, i said to myself, this is clearly a historic figure, the ruth baden ginsberg of economics but what makes it a story worth reading, the story

with her husband george who won a nobel prize and became janet yellen's traveling spouse. they med at the fed in 1976 and decided it was an equal partnership. >> just like everyone else. >> pretty heavy duty conversations at the dinner table, but it's a full-on partnership. >> and go further with that because this is actually, they're ahead of their time, and also it made many things possible for both of them. >> absolutely. certainly in terms of ahead of their time. this is why the relationship is so interesting. the husband, george, has always been ahead of his time in research, too, and they got married in the late 1970s, when, you know, women were just kind of first the workforce. people were figuring out how to do it. and they were figuring out how to do it. and they said from the very beginning this is an equal partnership. janet has kind of all the rights

and provisions of the workplace but also georges has the rights and privileges of being a parent. he would pick the son up from school very often. and when she got the jobs in washington, treasury secretary, federal reserve chair, chair of the white house council of economic advisers, all the top jobs, george said yeah, i'll come along and get dinner ready for you and you go do your job. >> and she is the first person in american history to have held all those positions you pointed out. so what is it about her, for people who don't know her story or expertise who makes her such a revered figure in washington and finance? >> one of the things i'd say is a difficult mother. in the sense that she had one. >> interesting. >> so one of the lessons from her work is do your homework. anyone who has kind of been in an internal debate knows that she is always going to be the most prepared person in the

room. even to this day, she gets 300 page briefing books on friday, takes them home, reads them and comes back with questions. her really ush p her mother reallyushed her to not only have her homework done every night, but it had to be done correctly before she turned it in. so that is one of the big lessons for me from her career. but the other is have a purpose. she got all these top jobs but she was never setting out to get the top job. she was always just setting out to do economics. and she's made some mistake. we're living through inflation right now, so i don't want to give her a free pass on some of the turbulence we've lived through, but she was always working to get her economics right and not to get the next best job. >> and you do mention in the book that she did receive some criticism for her support of the american rescue plan, $1.9 billion. some people thought that maybe that was a reason why inflation

became higher. can you sort of talk through that and how her confidence and experience really reinforced her strong endorsement of this important policy? >> yeah, this was really kind of an important and difficult episode in american history. and i think what happened was washington, not just yellen, but even before yellen, the trump administration was fighting the last war. so after the 2008 financial crisis, we went through high unemployment, people saying this is potentially the next great depression. and so they were afraid, policymakers in washington, were afraid we'd return to another period of high unemployment and they said we have to throw everything we can at this problem including the federal reserve. so she pushed interest rates very low, they did all kinds of promises that make wall street crazy every day. quantitative easing.

but they threw so much modern at the -- money at the economy. there were other factors, but it was one factor that led to this inflation and they were really guided by what had happened in the decade before that. there is this idea in psychology called bias wasted on what most recently happened to you. high unemployment, so they set out to end that. >> and the new book is entitled "yellen, the trailblazing economist who navigated an era of upheaval." great personal and professional stories about this impactful woman. jon, thank you very much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. and coming up, we'll get to the royal controversy following the release of a new netflix documentary from prince harry and meghan markell. the very latest on that is ahead on "morning joe."

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just a few minutes before the top of the hour. let's look at the morning papers now. the press and sun bulletin reports that new york's weekly number of reported flu cases has topped 27,000. some upstate regions report that just 5% of hospital beds available. historic flu spike comes as hospitals across the country face the worst flu season in 340r7b a decade which is still sxetsed to expected to get worse. and michigan reported nearly 12,000 new infections this week. and nearly 250 covid-related deaths. the new cases hiked the state's weekly average by over 30%. the atlanta journal constitution reports that eight people are

facing charges for conspiring to defraud the georgia department of labor out of tens of millions of dollars in federal funds. according to court documents, the claims resulted in at least $30 million in stolen benefits that were intended to help people struggling with unemployment during the covid-19 pandemic. and in connecticut, the news times covered a new grant program that aims to improve air quality in schools in the state. the new data shows that 130 school districts have applied for the $150 million school ventilation program. it is unclear at this time how many grants the state will distribute. it is now just about the top of the hour. joining the conversation, we have the co-founder and ceo of all in together, lauren leader. and also "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. how long has it been since we've seen each other in person? >> in person, probably about a year. >> he is author of the book

entitled "insurgency." how republicans got everything they wanted? did they? i don't know. >> i don't know. i mean, jeremy, again, this is part of the discussion right now. and the blame game has started. the question is, do republicans still like trump so much that they just don't care if they keep losing election after election after election after election. in your reporting do you see any evidence that some may be waking up going, oh, wait a second, we lose every time donald trump is part of the equation. >> there is almost something self defeating about certain trump supporters and voters in that they are happy to see the republican party lose if they believe that it is not being loyal enough to donald trump. that certainly is how donald trump feels. as somebody said to me when i

was reporting my book, donald trump has no interest in electing another republican president, he wants the next nominee to lose by 40 points as long as it is not him. i think, you know, you guys were talking about this earlier on the show, there is just no evidence of any type of widespread defection among republicans. that doesn't mean that donald trump is any stronger general election candidate than he was in 2020. it just means his hold on the republican party endures and it is going to endure until republicans see tangible signs that their voting base is slipping away from him. that is not happening. there are lots of republicans who have criticized him in recent days, but it is the same people. the same clips that we've been seeing over and over. mitt romney, john thune, john core then.

you could have suck a microphone in their face five years ago gou go and they were saying the same thing about "access hollywood." let's not forget, this is a guy who recently had dinner with a white supremacist and then he said a few days later that we should basically shred the constitution. >> had a qanon guest. >> it is like you guys had howard stern on last week, and it is funny because he i think made a pretty good obseration about all of this. of course trump said shred the constitution because he wants you to forget that he had dinner with kanye west. >> and i think that we need to believe him. but also he likes to deflect and try to control the message. but, wow, what a negative disgusting message. here are those republican lawmakers yesterday directly blaming former president donald trump for their party's poor

performance in the midterms. take a look. >> president trump lost again and i know a lot of people in our party love the president, former president, but he is full the kiss of death for someone who wants to win a general election. >> i think his obsession with the 2020 election became an albatross and a real liability for people. >> i think he's less relevant all the time. again, even if you capture all of the trump voters, you may be able to win a primary but you're not necessarily going to win the general election. >> thoses most closely associated with former president trump underperformed. that is objective. and those who had a little bit more distance tended do a little bit better. >> is former president trump's endorsement the kiss of death? >> they did a better job with early votes. mail-in and early voting.

i think people vote based on what they think is important to them. they don't vote because one of us tells them they should vote that way. >> i don't think this is any referendum on president trump. i think this is a referendum on us learning the cycle of how to run an election. we as republicans have to learn about getting people out to vote. cat's out of the bag with early voting. >> donald trump's presence was so significant here. republicans ready to embrace him in 2024? >> i don't quite see it that way. the trump factor helps some, hurts some depending on where you are at. biden is not overly popular, but they won because i think they their financing system is so much better than ours. >> so, joe, what does trump have on lindsey graham? what else could it be? >> it is nothing. no, no. what does he have on these

people? nothing. they shameless, they are afraid go to the voters. listen, i've known lindsey graham since '94. when it was cool for lindsey to be part of our group, he was first in line. he was the revolutionary's revolutionary. and then when suddenly that was not in vogue, suddenly he became john mccain's son, political son. and we were like what? how do you go from like running coups with us to being john mccain's son who senator mccain god bless him, i loved him, but he had very little use for us. and then how do you -- but john mccain was running for president. so lindsey ran to the power. i was blessed enough to have

quite a few meetings with senator mccain. and you know, at the end, he was just shaking his head. lindsey just loves spotlight, he loves golfing with the president too much. just sort of shook his head like poor lindsey, we've last him. so again, willie, we've talked -- >> jeremy. >> i tell you why, we have breaking news, alex was just talking in my ear. i'll tell you what, why don't you go with that breaking news. >> okay. is it official? okay. according to a senior administration official, brittney griner is free after 294 days in russian captivity. last months spent in one of russia's notoriously harsh penal colonies. she was traded for viktor bout

who vladimir putin has been trying to get back and who had served 11 years of a 25 year sentence in the u.s. president biden signed off on the trade even though it meant leaving another american businessman paul whelan behind. >> oh, dear lord. >> griner, a two time olympic gold medalist has been detained in russia since february when russian officials found two vape cartridges containing oil in her luggage. when she traveled to rejoin her russian pro basketball team. she was found guilty in august of trying to smuggle illegal narcotics into russia and sentenced to nine years. griner says she did not intend to smuggle narcotics into russia and her doctor had recommended the use of cannabis to treat pain from injuries. in may u.s. officials said ms. griner was wrongfully detained adding that they were working

aggressively to bring her home. brittney griner is free as part of a prisoner swap. and joe, of course there will be a lot of questions about paul whelan and a lot of questions about the swap itself. but brittney griner is coming home. >> that is certainly something that every american can celebrate. great news. the brittney griner is free, great news for her family, for her loved ones, for everyone who has known her through the years. let's bring in admiral, and we celebrate this and are so grateful and thankful that she is coming home. i can't help though and you can't and i'm sure every american can't help but put themselves in the position of paul whelan's family, an american who was improperly illegally jailed in russia and has been stuck in jail in horrific conditions since 2018. why in the hell wasn't he part

of this deal? >> we don't know and i think that we'll have to wait and hear from the white house. that is going to be question one at the press conference, to be honest. but yeah, let's just pause for a moment and say this is a good thing. we're getting an american back. her family, her wife, her friends, this is a very positive moment. but, yes, it is also the moment in which we need to keep the spotlight frankly not just on paul whelan, but also on a couple dozen other americans who are held under dubious circumstances around the world. what you can take away from this is that the white house, the administration, tony blinken and his core of diplomats, they can stand proud today having negotiated this. this is complicated stuff obviously working with the russians in the middle of the war in ukraine. so, joe, overall a wonderful day for brittney griner and her

family. more work to do. but we ought to feel good about getting one of our own home. >> great day. and of course the situation has been concerning, far more concerning even in recent weeks when we heard that she had been moved to more arduous difficult conditions. >> yeah, we're getting information right now from u.s. officials, this happened just a few moments ago. griner is now in u.s. officials. the swap took place in united emrates. it was one for one. fwriner is undergoing medical evaluation by u.s. doctors. already she's spoken to the president of the united states. president biden was in the oval office early this morning speaking with griner and her wife. vice president harris there also

per u.s. officials. we'll hear from the president at 8:30 on. so just a short time from now. we'll hear from him in the roosevelt room of the white house discussing the swap. this has been months in the making and talks picked up in recent weeks. jake sullivan a few weeks ago met with russian counter parts, first meets at that level in a while. there have been back channel conversations throughout despite the war. officials were periodically in touch on this. putin had made what u.s. officials thought were unreasonable demands, but now this agreement has been made. we'll learn a lot more in the next few minutes, we'll hear from the president again at 8:30. but brittney griner now with u.s. officials. she is out of russian custody. >> and she will be coming home, it is bittersweet, but very welcome news. let's talk now about the swap. viktor bout advice one of the most wanted men in the world

prior to his arrest in 2008. a former soviet air force officer, he is a convicted arms trafficker serving a 25 year prison sentence in the u.s. his exploits are so notorious that they inspired a holiday movie and led to the nickname the merchant of death. and what can you tell us about him and a swap like this? >> we studied viktor bout in graduate school almost 20 years ago. and this is a guy you studied as one of the most notorious criminals, the person who was fueling violence all over the world. horrific violence. and completely unapologetically selling arms all over the place. so listen, there is no prisoner swap that happened without its risks. it is a very difficult process. >> and the concession here is

this swap, number one, the merchant of death. and paul whelan is not coming home. >> yeah, i wasn't on the inside, so i can't say what cards we played or didn't play to not include name help. that just adds to the risk because what will it take on top of viktor bout to get paul out. we have to know our power in situations like that. so the risks you have with all prisoner swaps, you are sending the message around the world that americans can be taken for hostage and can be negotiated if you want money, if you want other prisoners who have been taken here in the united states, that an american who is kidnapped or detained unlawfully is now a bargaining chip for a terrorist organization or whatever. but the second is viktor bout himself. i'm not the trying to say that we should have done everything

to get brittney griner home. but we should also be getting all the other americas detained. and viktor bout has been in prison for over half his prison term. there are some experts who argue that letting him out now, being released now, doesn't really pose a major threat because he's been out of the game for about 13 years, that he has lost his networks, the game of arms sales very different now, he is going back to a country where the economy is shattered, where there are sanctions and so on. there is an element of that, but i don't want to be overly idealistic here. he will go back to his criminal ways. >> and the questions of the date will surrounds paul whelan and this man viktor bout. brittney griner though is coming home. and joe biden has somehow very pragmatically made this happen in the middle of a full-scale war. >> oh, yeah, which of course,

admiral, hard to believe that they were able to get this done in the middle of the full-scale war. you do though, you look at viktor bout, you lack look at the fact that we're trading an arms merchant, merchant of death, worst of the worst, for a wnba basketball player who vaped, and you are wondering is that good deal? like shouldn't we have been able to throw in this other guy, paul whelan, to get a two for one if you are actually giving up a merchant of death? >> yeah, the bottom line here is the united states is a compassionate nation that cares about all of its citizens. and is going to do everything it can to get them out. and sometimes that leads you to a situation like this which no one relishes, believe me, letting viktor bout go. when i was commander of u.s.

southern command, i worked every day with the d.e.a., they are the ones that caught this guy. and this is not a happy day in their headquarters, believe me. but here are the two big takeaways. number one, russia is a nation, pariah nation, and if you are an american citizen, my advice is don't go anywhere near russia, don't go to russia. and by the way, unsanctioned by the kremlin. and i wear that with a badge of honor. second point and it is a good point and you just made it, even in the midst of the war and these incredible massive disagreements, we can and frankly we must continue to keep open channels of communication, have a grain deal that gets the grain out of ukraine, continue the salt talk, strategic arms limitations talk. do this kind of hostage negotiation. we can't simply break off relations completely with

russia. we need to be smart about how we execute diplomacy. my hat is off to tony blinken and the state department this morning. >> well, big news. admiral, thank you very much. and let's go straight to cara lee who has gotten herself in position across the street from the white house. what can you tell us? >> i can tell that you according to a senior administration official the president and brittney griner's wife were in the oval office and had a conversation with brittney griner and then they had a private conversation. and so we're expecting to hear from the president at 8:30 this morning. and any moment now. and where he will address this. and this is a major achievement for the president, this is something that he has been working on for months, the administration officials have been working on, they put forward that proposal in july for a prisoner swap that went cold. talks were not advancing but

wesley picked up. we heard from the president after the november election that he hoped that vladimir putin would be willing to cut a deal now that the midterms were over. it is notable that this is happening after the midterms are really over following that georgia runoff. and this is something that an administration official tells me was a goal to get brittney griner home before christmas. and at the same time as you have been talking about, paul whelan is not a part of this. and that is something that you are already hearing from jonathan franks who is the head of bring our families home that represents a number of families wrongfully detained americans saying that he has been left behind, criticizing that aspect of this. so to the extent the president comes out and takes questions on this, that is going to be top of mind. >> all right. let's bring in andrea mitchell who has been working on breaking this story all night long on the phone. andrea, it is pretty incredible.

bittersweet but incredible news. and the swap is fascinating as well. >> in fact the swap was done in a middle east country. i've learned that it was in the united arab emirates. so the swap was done, she is on her way home and the president is about to announce that as carol has been reporting. the fact is tha paul wheelen whelan news is dismacing. his parents were very concerned because he had gotten out of touch. and then i learned last sunday and david whelan confirmed this with us on monday, that he was actually taken from the prison to the prison hospital even though he wasn't sick with no explanation on thanksgiving day so that he could not call home.

and of course the parents were terribly worried. and then taken the next day back to the prison. and according to david whelan and what paul later told the embassy in moscow, he was taken because the notorious mercenaries, the wagner group, were in that prison community trying to recruit inmates to go to ukraine. and they did not want the american hostage to see it will going on because they know that he is communicating back with washington. it is also cruel, so bizarre. what vladimir putin has been doing and now you've got the statement from the group coordinating and campaigning for all american hostages to be released saying that paul whelan deserves better from his government, he has already served four years there. and sentenced to 21 years. he deserves better from this government and encourage biden

to get his return using all tools available. brittney griner's news is tremendous for her wife and for all her fans, but i think that it is going to be difficult for the administration and they know this. the russians were demanding that russian spy be turned over in addition to viktor bout, the notorious arms dealer, and the u.s. position is they don't have any russian spies in captivity to turn over. initially the russians were demanding that man, a spygerman captivity, assassin actually, had to be turned over and u.s. said we can't ask the germans to turn someone over. so they said they had nothing to offer and the russians were demanding that if whelan was going to get out, they had to get someone labeled a spy and whelan is not a spy according to him, his family and the u.s. government. so bittersweet moment but certainly great news for brittney griner and her family

and fans. >> andrea, we appreciate your working so hard to bring this story to light. and president biden of course as you mentioned is set to speak in just a few minutes. he tweeted two photos from the oval office. here you see him on the phone surrounded by brittney griner's wife, vice president kamala harris and secretary of state antony blinken who of course was a key player in this. andrea, my gosh, i can't even imagine the relief for griner's family, the worry as well because of what she's endured. it wasn't really clear on just how bad the circumstances were but most of us knew they weren't good for brittney griner. >> absolutely. she went to the penal colony first week in november after losing her appeal and until then she was held in detention,

conditions were not good. but it was detention in the moscow area, the embassy could get to her very easily. she was then when she lost her appeal and it was a nine year sentence for less than a gram of cannabis oil which was medicinally prescribed and she pleaded guilty because she thought that would shorten the time she would spend in jail even though she had always said that she did not know that she was breaking any laws when she was arrested at the airport in moscow. and she's worked for years in the summer and this will interest you, mika, for years these athletes, these star athletes go to russia and other countries where they can make more money potentially in that season playing for russia than they make during the year because the wnba does not make the same dollars that the nba makes. >> this is a huge equal pay story, no joke. this is why -- because lot of people were like what was she

doing there. >> exactly. and she was a star in russia. she loved her there. so here she had all these russian and american teammates and for her to be treated this way, it was very clear according to secretary blinken and of course the president, russia has this policy of grabbing people off the street or the airport and holding them for ransom. >> and we can report indeed that the plane is wheels up heading back to the united states. she is on her way home. so significant news there. and yes, a lot of debate over paul whelan right now. but this alone, getting dwriner out after weeks and months of secret conversations, the ones that picked up in recent weeks after the midterms here, this can only be described as pretty significant diplomatic try umpg of for the biden, yes?

>> absolutely. and as i said a moment ago, tony blinken personally i think has his fingerprints all over this alongside the national security adviser jake sullivan. i know from conversations with both of them this has been top of mind for them for months and this is a very good moment for both of them. i want to go back to something we heard a moment ago from andrea, which is how could this happen to someone who is inside russia, beloved by the russians. boy is that good observation. and the takeaway is if you are an american, don't go to russia. i don't care whether they are paying you enough or a lot or a little, don't go to russia. you are subject to being scooped up on very shaky pretext and thrown into a jail as you see, the prisoners there actually stand in a courtroom in a jail cell. think about that for a minute.

what signal that sends to the judge perhaps. and ultimately it goes to the even larger point of russia emerging as a pariah state, that no one wants to do business with. every u.s. corporation has essentially pulled out of russia. we don't even encourage nations to deal with them in any way. i think all of that is going to be an object lesson, it is not going to help putin's efforts to keep his economy moving in the least. >> and so again, this is a very important conversation to have, certainly conversation the administration has been having, going to continue to have about the concerns whenever you negotiate with vladimir putin, when you negotiate with countries who have kidnapped americans. innocent americans. obviously the conversation about paul whelan will continue not only from his family but from

advocacy groups. but the one thing we can say at 8:27 on the east coast right now, extraordinary news, great news for brittney griner, for her family, for her loved ones, for her friends, for her fans, for all the people who have been suffering every day since she was first arrested. >> absolutely. and really can't take away anything from that. it is incredibly welcome news. and must have been an incredible moment in the oval office with her wife, her family desperately awaiting this news. and you see tony blinken there. it will be fascinating to read the history on this negotiation, to figure out how to free an american imprisoned in russia while russia is in the middle of a hot war with ukraine and committing atrocities by the day and losing the war, losing face,

vladimir putin, how joe biden and tony blinken were able to make this happen, what the different facets of this negotiation was will be absolutely fascinating. you will see there the podium at the white house. and again we'll be hearing from the president directly on the release of brittney griner who is wheels up. transfer took place in the uae and she is headed home. while we wait for the president, and i warn you i might have to interrupt you, but i want you to talk about the dynamics of brittney and what you just showed me. she was adored in russia, the basketball team was adored, but there are other things to consider. >> yeah, this is not just an nba star, this was a guy black woman detained in a country that actively represses the lgbtq

community. just two days ago putin signed a law banning any signs of lgbtq expression publicly. so she finds herself on the other side of this justice system. and that is a risk, it poses an immense risk to her and any treatment that the russian government will wield toward her. when i heard that she had been moved to a penal colony for example, again, a guy black woman in russia, it terrified me. so that relief in and of itself is enormous. on paul, having been on the other side of u.s. government, i know if they could have gotten paul whelan released they would have. >> and we have a statement from the russian foreign affairs ministry that says on december 8, 2022, the procedure for exchanging russian citizen viktor bout for u.s. citizen brittney griner who served their sentences in correctional institutions of the united states of america and the

russian federation respectively was successfully completed at abu dhabi airport. for a long time the russian federation has been negotiating with the united states on the release of v.a. bout. washington refused to engage in the exchange scheme but nevertheless the russian federation continued to actively work to rescue our compatriot. as a result of the effort, it was possible to agree with the american side on the organization of the exchange of v.a. bout for b. griner. the russian citizen has been returned to his homeland. meanwhile there is no statement on the deal from federal prosecutors. a spokesperson for the u.s. attorney's office for the southern district of new york declined to comment on the trade of viktor bout for brittney griner. at the time of his conviction,

then u.s. attorney general eric holder said today one of the world's most prolific arms dealers is being held accountable for his past. his armed trafficking and support of armed conflicts have been a source of concern around the globe for decades. today he faces the prospect of life in prison for selling weapons to terrorists for use in killing americans. this is the man being swapped for brittney griner. bout was convicted of conspiring to kill u.s. nationals, conspiring to kill u.s. officers and employees, conspiring to acquire and use anti-aircraft missile and conspiring to provide material to support a designated foreign terrorist organization. so this, joe, is the prisoner swap with brittney griner that has taken place. brittney griner is officially on

her way home. >> great news. admiral, you are right though, there will be questions about why it wasn't brittney griner and paul whelan. i mean, you look at viktor bout's resume of death, it is so expansive that there are going to be -- and of course we'd expect this, people shouldn't freak out. we need to ask questions so we can protect the next americans who may go to a country and get kidnapped. so this is a good time for people to ask questions about why it was a one-on-one swap and not a two on one swap. >> and one line that we heard from andrea about they moved paul whelan out of the prison because the russians were recruiting within the prison. wouldn't it be wonderful to

think that viktor bout may come back and end up on the front lines in ukraine where perhaps a drone could be arranged. in all seriousness, this is not someone we want to see going back to russia. and i will tell you, he certainly has his capabilities intact. he is not an old whitey bulger kind of figure. he still will be very dangerous. i would not be surprised to see viktor bout emerge in some fashion again. we may get another bite at that poisoned apple, we'll see. but bottom line, you said it correctly, for americans you was -- you have to be smart about where you go overseas. and i'll make kind of a broader geopolitical point here, which is don't forget that china and canada went through a very

similar dance a couple of years ago with several canadian businessmen who were being held in china while a senior chinese business woman was being held by the canadians in house arrest. ultimately that was resolved diplomatically as well. but you have to be smart and careful and number one on the don't go list would be russia. >> so jonathan, we're looking at the podium where we expect to see president biden in a few moments. we're hearing that griner will fly to san antonio to be checked out at a medical facility. what do you expect to hear from the president and especially to questions why paul whelan wasn't included here? >> yes, the press pool in the room right now. if he comes to the door of course we'll turnover the microphone to the president. but this is something months and weeks in the making.

talks between the u.s. and russia despite the war going on in ukraine, there still have been conversations periodic check-ins on this, there had been hopes u.s. officials had thought that the g-20 in indonesia about a month back that the president -- biden would not talk to putin about any of the war, but this is the one thing that he would have had discussions about, try to free brittney griner and paul whelan. but putin ducked had summit so no conversations to be had. but they continued on the staff level behind the scenes. jake sullivan talked to his russian counterparts recently and a deal was struck as reported earlier. they were hopeful that putin would be more amenable to this after the american midterms, those of course have come and gone. there will certainly be questions about paul whelan. there are reports that demands couldn't be met by u.s. officials. u.s. officials saying this morning they did everything they could. they are still hopeful of

arranging his release before too long. but they want this of course to be a good news story about brittney griner. someone now on her way home. the airplane highways left the uae where the swap occurred. she will be home well before christmas reunited with her family. >> there is just no question that that is such welcome news and such a relief in so many levels. we're awaiting president biden and others to come out. apparently they are clustered in a room and the door has opened. but we shall see what is happening here. this may just be a bit of a mic check here and some preps. but we're waiting to hear from president biden and also potentially to be joined by brittney griner's wife and secretary of state. we'll see what happens here. so carol lee, i go to you with the caveat that i may interrupt you, talk to us if you can, what

more do you know and about that incredible scene in the oval office this morning. >> yeah, we saw the president, the vice president, secretary of state and brittney griner's wife so the phone with brittney griner having a conversation. we're told the administration will fly griner's wife to san antonio to meet there at the medical facility. and we're also hearing from paul whelan's brother david for the first time saying that the administration this time gave him a head's up, the family got a head's up that paul would not be a part of this prisoner swap, congratulating the president and the administration on freeing brittney griner saying that they are happy for brittney griner and her family, at the same time noting obviously that paul whelan is not part of this and saying that they got a head's up. we're expecting to hear from the president any minute now and what we expect to hear is that this is a day to celebrate, that this is something that his

administration has worked really hard for and that brittney griner will be finally be home. it is notable that she was detained just a week before that russian invasion and the administration managed to hold these negotiations and secure her release amid this war where relations are at an all-time low. we expect that the president would address the fact that this is a one for one swap, it is not a broader prisoner swap as some had expected and that the u.s. had hoped. and perhaps learn some things about -- >> and carol, let me interrupt you because the president and brittney griner's wife have come out. >> good morning, folks. and it is a good morning. moments ago standing with her wife in the oval office, spoi i spoke with brittney griner. she is safe, she is on a plane on her way home after months of being unjustry detained, held

under intolerable circumstances. she will soon be back in the arms 6 her loved ones and she should have been there all along. this is a day we've worked toward for a long time. we never stopped pushing for her release. it took painstaking and intense negotiations and i want to thank all the hard working public servants across my administration who worked tirelessly to secure her release. i also want to thank the uae for helping facilitate brittney's return. these past few months have been hell for brittney and her entire family. people all across the country have learned about brittney's story, advocated for her release throughout the terrible ordeal. and i know that support meant a lot to her family. brittney is in good spirits, relieved to finally be heading

home and she's lost months of her life, experienced needless trauma. she tea serves space, privacy and time to recover and heal from her time being wrongfully detained. brittney is an incomparable athlete. two time olympic gold medalist for team usa. she endured mistreatment at a show trial in russia with grit and incredible dignity. she represents the best upon america, everything about her. she wrote to me back in july, she didn't ask for special treatment even though we'vebeen been, working on her release. she said please don't forget about me and the other american detainees. please do all you can to bring us home. we never for got about brittney. and we've not forgotten about paul whelan who has been unjustly detained in russia for years. this was not a choice of which

american to bring home. we brought home trevor reed when we had a chance earlier this year. sadly for illegitimate reasons russia is treating paul's case differently than brittney's. but we're not giving up. we will never give up. we remain in close touch with the whelan family and my thoughts and prayers are with them today. they have to have such mixed emotions today. and we'll keep negotiating in good faith for paul's release. i guarantee that. and i urge russia to do the same to ensure paul's health and humane treatment are maintained until we are able to bring him home. i don't want any american to sit wrongfully detained one extra day if we can bring that person home. our administration has now brought home dozens of americans who were held hostage abroad, many of whom have been held since before i took office. and today we also remember the

other americans that are being held hostage and wrongfully detained in russia or anywhere else in the world. reuniting americans with their loved ones remain as priority for our administration and every person in my administration involved in this. and we'll continue to work to bring home every american who continues to endure such an injustice. we also want to prevent any more american families from suffering this pain and separation and i strongly urge all americans to take precautions including reviewing the state department's travel advisories before they travel overseas, which now includes warnings about the risks of being wrongfully detained by a foreign government. make no mistake about it, this work is not easy. negotiations are always difficult. there are never any guarantees. but it is my job as president of the united states to make the hard calls and protect american citizens everywhere in the world. anywhere in the world. and i'm proud that today we have made one more family whole

again. so welcome home, brittney. and now i'd like to invite her wife to say a few words. of course she's not excited at all about this. it is all your, kid doe. congratulations. >> thank you.doe. congratulations. >> thank you. over the last nine months you all have been so privy to one of the darkest moments of my life. and so today i'm just standing here overwhelmed with emotions, but the most important emotion that i have is just sincere gratitude for president biden and his entire administration. he just mentioned this work is not easy and it has not been. there has been so many hands involved. and so i'd like to take a moment to specifically mention a few. vice president harris, secretary blinken, jake sullivan, national security council, roger cartson,

shown from the hostage invoice office, a special thank you to governor richardson, mercury players, wnba p.a. for your advocacy. and also you guys may not know this, but my family has been tremendously supported by bg's agent, just amazing for me and my family throughout this process. so today my family is whole, but as you all are aware, there are so many other families who are not whole. and so bg is not here to say this, but i will gladly speak on her behalf and say that bg and i will remain committed to the work of getting every american home, including paul, whose family is in our hearts today as we celebrate bg being home. we did understand that there are still people out here who are enduring what i endured the last nine months of missing tremendously their loved ones. so thank you everybody for your

support. and today it is just a happy day for me and my family. so i'm going to smile right now. thank you. >> thank you all very much. [ reporters yell out questions ] >> what do you say to the whelan family who say this is a catastrophe for paul, mr. president? >> we'll entering to them. >> how soon -- speaking with them. >> taking just a few questions as he closes the door about paul whelan. and he asked for 24 hours in terms of more information on that, but joe, pretty moving statement there from the wife brittney griner and also the swap that took place at the abu dhabi airport in the uae of notorious russian prisoner in

the u.s. for brittney griner who is coming home. >> it is remarkable, remarkable achievement. and president biden said -- just talked the reality of it. you know, every case is different. you negotiate the case that is in front of you. the russians obviously put paul whelan in a different category than brittney griner and others. and the president is right, they have gotten other prisoners out before. other administrations have. and you look for openings. you take that opening. he had an opening to get brittney griner out today and that is something -- again, we can do two things at once. this is such wonderful news for her, for her wife, for the family, friends, loved ones especially in this holiday season coming into the holiday season. what a joyous time for them. and at the same time, you heard

the questions asked, you heard the president, you heard everybody at that podium talking about the importance of remembering paul whelan, what the hell that their family has been going through for over four years now, that they continue to go through. but i am sure that based on what he said and what everybody has said, the president, the administration, still working on paul whelan. and waiting for that opportunity. they had an opportunity to bring brittney griner home and they took it. and now they have to look for the opportunity to bring paul whelan who has been there for four years, over four years, to bring him home as well. and looking at their track record, there is no reason to believe that they won't find a way to get him home as well. but again, the headline here, joyous news. brittney griner freed as part of a prisoner swap. she is coming home.

>> and the smile on the face of her wife told the whole story after nine, almost ten agonizing months for her. imagine what every waking moment must have felt like wondering without communication how your wife is doing. brittney griner is in a notorious penal colony, several hours outside moscow, where no one really knew what was going on there. so the fact that she is headed back to the united states is objectively great news. and we have new reporting from andrea mitchell. a senior u.s. official tells andrea they tried everything they could to get paul whelan out as part of this deal knowing that they had a big chip with viktor bout. but russia is treating whelan differently the source said. they say he is an espionage case and the choice was either one or none. so we either get griner home or you could have nobody home. that was the deal offered by

russia. paul whelan, the united states denies that he is a spy, that he is being held unlawfully. he is in the fourth year of a 16 year sentence. and heard from the president saying that we're talking to the family, we've not two for got ten. of course there is no perfect deal, but if you wanted brittney griner home, it sounds like they had to give up viktor bout or get nobody. >> and as the saying goes, the buck stops here, and these are hard calls. and i've watched presidents that i worked for over the years make very hard calls about hostages. sometimes by the way the choice is do you attempt to rescue them knowing that there could be could be consequences to hostages when they're being held by terrorists. a case like this where someone is being held by a government, even a despicable government run by vladimir putin, you can at least bring to bear those tools

of diplomacy that we saw tony blinken, our secretary of state, and jake sullivan, our national security adviser, wield so well. so, again, good news getting brittney home. still work to do. it's not just paul whelan. there are other cases that are out there. this is like the task of sisyphus in greek mythology, the boulder rolls down, just as you get it close to the top, another case pops out. i want to just close by saying i was really moved by shirelle. i thought she handled that big moment on an international stage perfectly. talked about pitch perfect, talk about someone who in my view at that moment deserves everything she has received. it's a nice moment for the country and a nice moment for her, and above all a nice moment if i can use her nickname, b.g.

>> let's bring in right now a man who has been working on this issue talking to the white house since the day that brittney griner was sent to jail in russia. that is reverend al sharpton. we've talked about this a good deal on and off the air. you would say the same thing, everyone's been saying the same thing this morning, our thoughts and prayers are certainly with the whelan family and paul whelan. they'll be going into their fifth christmas, holiday season, without paul home. so we keep them in our thoughts and prayers. at the same time, we celebrate this momentous moment that you've been working so hard for with other civil rights leaders. give me your thoughts right now. >> well, i'm very, very happy to

see brittney free. i'm so proud of shirelle. i must say that president biden and the state department worked on this even sometimes off the radar. we would be talking to them. they were very sincere about it. and they did what i think is important, because if we can't secure someone like brittney, who on really no real evidence was held, and i think became a political pawn of russia particularly after the ukraine war had started, i think that it would have undermined the ability of our country to do what we need to do to negotiate. so i am thinking this is a great breakthrough. but i also join you and the country in praying and supporting the whelan family in our joy, and we are certainly joyous today. we should not forget the whelans and others because i feel that

they are equally being held wrong, and we will continue to put whatever efforts we can to see their release. but i'm happy to see that brittney is on her way home. we raised this issues and others, but the white house from day one was responsive. and i want to also salute shirelle, who stood steadfast sometimes alone by brittney and let the whole world know who b.g. was. >> there is no equivalence in these two people released today. brittney griner was arrested at an airport with a vape cartridge with traces of cannabis. viktor bout is an angel of death. but these are the choices sometimes that have to be made. >> we have a saying in national security in the government you're choosing the least bad

option. it's always complicated, these deals. hearing now that it was brittney griner or nothing makes a lot of sense that you're going to take the deal to get brittney griner out, for her safety, because we want to show that we do everything to get americans out. one of the comments i made to mika was when we heard shirelle give her thanks and named all the people in the government that she wanted to thank, one of the things i thought of when i was working, and i have seen a lot of cases of kidnapping for ransom, especially by terrorist organizations when i worked at treasury, and the comment complaint under the biden administration at the same time was the families felt they weren't getting enough communication from the government, no point of contact, felt that no one was working on it even if they were. when i heard her list that, everybody she thanked i kept thinking to myself, that's a real lesson learned there. this administration and the trump administration have worked very hard at prioritizing the

release of americans and i'm so grateful that the president -- and admiral james stavridis said this, too, made a comment about warning americans before traveling not just to russia but to dictatorships and authoritarian countries all over the world. that is buried on those state department websites. but nobody visits those before traveling. for students and broader americans, that is a very important message. >> and they should be read for sure. >> yes. >> joe. >> mika, let me give you some details that i'm get e getting on what's happened with this prisoner exchange. the initial discussions about this prisoner exchange between the uae and vladimir putin happened in october, october 11th, 2022, when the president of the uae nbc as he's known, went over, traveled, and spoke

with vladimir putin. they spoke about many things, but this was on the top of the list. one of the issues on the top of the list trying to broker the deal between the united states and russia. brittney will be airborne in 20 to 30 minutes based on the information i have from someone at the airport right now. and the prisoner swap, the exchange i'm told by an official occurred -- the two planes landed and this person i spoke with said it was like a spy movie, both stopped off respective planes and walked toward the other planes crossing each other, looking straight ahead, got on the other planes

and right now those planes had moved in place. again, brittney griner's plane i'm told will be departing for the united states in the next 20 to 30 minutes. this deal brokered in part by uae's president nbc in a meeting in october with vladimir putin. >> it just can't be stated enough how remarkable that this was accomplished in the middle of the hot war with ukraine among many other things. here's what we're going to do. we're going to take a one-minute break only and reset for the fourth hour of "morning joe," reshuffle everything. we have major breaking news. brittney griner is on her way home. we'll be right back with much more.

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joe." we begin with that breaking news, a prisoner swap between the u.s. and russia has led to the release of wnba star brittney griner in exchange for russian arms dealer viktor bout, known as the merchant of death. the swap was done at the abu dhabi airport in the uae and griner is about to be on her way home. her first stop will be a medical facility in san antonio where newly released american prisoners are usually checked out. the other major part of this story is that this was a one-to-one swap. meaning american businessman and marine paul whelan has been left behind in russia. he was arrested in moscow in december of 2018 and convicted in 2020 on espionage charges. president biden tweeted two photos from the oval office this morning. they show him on the phone surrounded by