brittney griner back in the u.s. this weekend after being released from a russian prison. this in exchange for a russian arms dealer. earlier today, former cia director john brennan told msnbc what he feels it took nearly ten months to bring her home. when -- >> it's pretty clear that brittney griner's team -- as well as the national focus on her case made her, then russia's eyes, a very valuable negotiating tool. that's why they held out for exchange for someone like viktor bout. >> on capitol hill, arizona senator kyrsten sinema taking up the senate, announcing she is leaving the democratic party and switching to independent. seminal -- defending the move saying she will not defend her approach. >> my stands today is about joining the many americans, and lots of arizonans, in fact, the majority of voters, who don't believe any political party fits them perfectly. i don't think about issues

being democrat or republican. i don't think arizonans do either. >> speaking of arizona, some republican kari lake ray filed a lawsuit challenging her defeat in the arizona's governor race. the closer the. winner later this hour, the political panel react to that news and how her effort might end. first, let's go to the heart breaking news. popular american soccer journalist journalist grant wahl died last night while covering the world cup in qatar. the qatari government says he was covering the argentina netherlands match when he reportedly collapsed. he was 48 years old. nbc's megan this gerald in doha, qatar with the latest details. megan? >> it has been an incredible somber day in doha. across the u.s. soccer world. grant wall, arguably the world's most recognizable name and u.s. soccer, covering eight world cup tournaments. in fact, we were planning on interviewing him tonight to talk about the world cup. instead, colleagues, fans of his work, along with family and friends are mourning his death.

>> the sports world waking up to a devastating blow. sports writer grant wahl collapsing in the press box where he was covering the argentina and what netherlands match. cpi was administered for several minutes, but he did not make, it the qatari government saying in part, he received immediate emergency treatment on site, which continued as he was transferred by ambulance to hmong general hospital. the day before his death, wall, a longtime soccer writer for sports illustrated said on his podcast he had been feeling ill for the past two weeks. >> i took some time off myself. my body told me, even after the u.s. went out, dude, you are not sleeping enough. it rebelled on me. so i had a case of bronchitis this week. been to the medical clinic at the media center twice now, including today. >> his colleagues stand. >> he was incredibly hardworking, he was very, very confident. he was a really, really good

writer. a very hard nosed reporter. he went after stories with the confidence i definitely did not have. he believed in every word he wrote. >> he was not afraid to push boundaries, his final report a review of qatar's world cup organizers of their alleged mistreatment of migrant workers. he also made international headlines last month when he tweeted he was briefly detained by qatari security for wearing a rainbow shirt to a match supporting gay rights. >> this was an issue that he thought was really, really important for him. it was a very personal issue. he believes in it. >> this morning, athletes far and wide from lebron james. >> i mean, mayhew rest in paradise. >> to meghan repeat go expressing devastation. u.s. soccer releasing a statement that it was heartbroken. wall's wife, prominent doctor celine gounder says she was in complete shock. >> the u.s. state department is working with qatari authorities. at this moment, we are still

waiting for a cause of death. alex? >> ultimate, megan fitzgerald, thank you for that. joining me right now is michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia, an msnbc international affairs analyst. i'm glad to have you particularly on this breaking story. give me a sense of what diplomatic protocol is right now, and is there any heightened concern because this very journalist had been -- detained by qatari officials for wearing that rainbow shoe that you heard meghan reporting. >> right now, the state department, i'm assuming, is doing everything they can to help the family get his body back. there is, you know, in the press, including the soundly members some accusations that maybe he was killed. those are big accusations. that can only be resolved in a diplomatic way. there are people that need to remember that when things like this happen overseas, you don't have the same access to information that you would in the united states. i dealt with this when i was the ambassador from russia from

time to time. but, i don't see, this is a government that we have close relations with. my suspicion, my hope is that you will see cooperation between the two countries to make sure there is no lingering doubts about what happened. >> to that and, ambassador, what can, what might the u.s. officials do to look further into this. you said there have been allegations, of course, nothing proven, obviously. what is sent investigators by chance to qatar? or to rely on qatari officials for their inquiry and analysis of what exactly happened? >> i have seen it happen in different ways. some time to send our investigators in situations where we think crimes have been committed. sometimes we wait to do that when the body has been removed from that country. in the situation, i honestly have no idea what is happening right now. i think it's very important that we remember that this is a government that we have close relations with.

this is not like russia, who i was the ambassador, everything was contentious. my hope, an expectation is that we will have a co-operative procedure. i think everybody will want to know the truth of what happened in this tragic situation. >> 100%. very quickly, can his remains be returned quickly? repeat treated to the u.s.? or will have to go through some sort of red tape, if you will? >> there is red tape. yes, of course. i think the expectation is that his body shall be brought back home as soon as possible. and there are state department procedures to do that in a very precise way. >> okay, ambassador, thank you for that, you stay with us, we want to talk about what the next door in a moment as we get to everybody, wnba star brittney griner's first weekend in the u.s. in nearly ten months. priscilla thompson joining us outside of brooke army medical center in san antonio texas. priscilla, do you?

>> well, officials here say britney griner seem to be in good health when she stepped off that plane yesterday morning, if you really know the answer to, that that's why they brought her here. this is an army medical facility that is known to treat people who need to be debriefed, and who have gone through the types of traumatic incidents and may have sustained injuries from that. those injuries, as a reminder, may be physical, but can also be mental. >> brittney griner is waking up back on american soil for the first time in almost one year. touching down in texas early on friday. >> she wasn't very, very good spirit and she got off of the plane. and appeared to be, obviously, in good health. >> the two-time olympic gold medalist were taken to brooke army medical center for physical and mental health checks, where she reunited with her wife cherelle. no word yet on what injury griner of may have suffered, or when she may be released. >> those decisions are up to them and their families.

they will take as much time as they need. >> new video released by russian state media appears to show griner working in one of russia's most notoriously harsh pena colonies, we spent the past month or ten month long imprisonment. until thursday, one on a tarmac in abu dhabi, griner was exchanged for russian arms dealer victor bout. nicknamed the merchant of death, he served 11 years of the 25 year sentence in the u.s. for conspiring to kill americans among other charges. top republicans now slamming the president for not bringing fellow american captive paul whelan home as well. calling the exchange an equal. >> this as well, he left a marine behind. it has made as weak, or made putin stronger, and made americans more vulnerable. >> the biden administration said they made a national security assessment before signing off on his release. putin said more exchanges are possible. whelan's family says they are happy griner's home, but the inability to bring paul home remains difficult.

>> the choice really was either we bring brittany home and get one american released, or get none. we will keep working for paul whelan. >> alex, as for what comes next, we don't know how long brittney griner will be here. my colleague spoke to trevor rick spokesperson who said he was in the hospital for around 48 hours, but stayed on base doing reintegration for about two weeks. officials say that as the eye free woman on u.s. soil, brittney griner is free to leave whenever she chooses. alex? >> we will look forward to having her do that, thank you so much, priscilla. back to discuss the negotiations who brought griner back to the u.s., ambassador michael mcfaul. 's ambassador, you said this is an exchange you would have taken, trading griner for arms dealer victor bout. even the justice department raise questions, some republicans called it a threat to american lives. give me your sense of the deal,

and in perspective, some of the blow back. >> it's a hard call, right? this was not an easy decision. i know that, talking to biden administration officials. my assessment, my assumption is that they negotiated that they have been negotiating for a long time, obviously, they would've liked to give that all the americans. mark global, don't forget mark fogle, another american sitting in jail in russia for the same alleged crime that brittney griner, mark is a high school teacher that used to teach my son was i was the ambassador. there is a deeply intimately involved with our diplomatic community. but, you know, three innocent americans for one criminal would have been a good deal. but you get to the end of negotiations with the russians, i have been there many, many times. then you have to decide, do i take the deal in hand? or do i walk away? sometimes, we have to walk away. this was not the right time to walk away. i think they made the right decision to kick this deal now.

>> you make this three for one wish, you wish it would've happened. why do you think vladimir putin was so intent on getting viktor bout back to russia. moscow is running out of weapons, for example, for the war on ukraine. what comes to mind? could he help putin pure killer weapons that he needs? can he do things that putin can't? can he become the threats of the u.s. again on other fronts? >> you know, maybe, but i doubt it. remember, he has been in jail for 14, 15 years. when he was arrested in thailand, i can't imagine that he wants to go back into this business. he is a marked man. third, i think there is a different explanation. the different explanation is if you look at viktor bout and his bio, it looks a lot like, to me, he had a lot of interaction with russia intelligence, and maybe even was a russian intelligence officer. remember, vladimir putin is also a russian intelligence officer.

even when i was in the government many, many years ago, they were trying to get boot out because i think they were motivated to get one of their own back home. when britney griner was arrested, i think they figured out that they had somebody with all of the public attention, rightfully so, in my view, to be clear, that who just got that they might be able to treat for boot and ultimately they were successful. >> putin is also out of yesterday, other prisoner swaps are possible. russia is refusing to refuse this in the future. given, now what do you think this prospects are? a feeling, freeland, paul whelan, he has been jailed since 2018 on what u.s. officials say were baseless espionage charges. also your son's teacher. they were left behind. will something work in the future? >> of course i hope so. second, i have no doubt that the state department is focused on trying to get these people out. that is clear to me. third, i took putin's comments

as positive. our did not expect that. he has never talked about this before, remember it's. always our side talking about it. maybe there are future deals to be done. and i hope they will work as hard as possible. >> in terms of how this came about, you heard yesterday that the white house denied saudi crown prince -- and the united arab emirates presidents claims that they lead the mediation efforts that secured griner's release. this is coming days after the u.s. judge dismissed a lawsuit against him, claiming he conspired to kill jamal khashoggi. saying the crown prince was entitled to sovereign immunity. do you have any sense that the saudis played a role here? >> i don't think they did. maybe they did, they are very secret, you know, i asked the administration officials how it happened. they are being very quarry about talking about it. but from judging from other negotiations, including one that i was involved in 2010,

during the obama administration, that was a bilateral channel. i suspect, you know, facilitated the exchange of course other countries play that role. i think this is probably done in a very tightly held bilateral channel between americans and russians. >> your insights and candor, much appreciated as always, my friend. thank, you michael mcfaul. what the trump or conviction means for the former presidents brand. could it mean bankruptcy? michael cohen will give us his take on that. plus his two meetings with kanye west and what donald trump might really think about yay. might really thi ankbout yay. yay. meet three sisters. the drummer, the dribbler, and the day-dreamer... the dribbler's getting hands-on practice with her chase first banking debit card... the drummer's making savings simple with a tap... ...round of applause. and this dreamer, well, she's still learning how to budget, so mom keeps her alerts on full volume. hey! what? it's true! and that's all thanks to chase first banking. freedom for kids. control for parents.

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who have found the right way to lose weight >> as the fallout grows for and get healthier with golo. kanye west, over anti semitic statements, there's new reporting that donald trump is refusing to distance himself. rolling stone reports prominent jewish, and human rights leaders are circulating a leader to ask for president to

condemn kanye, that is going to three sources with knowledge of that matter. the trump advisor responded saying, quote, i seen, it and i do not care. joining me now is michael cohen, donald trump's former personal attorney, new york times bestselling author, host of the makeup of podcast, an author of the upcoming book revenge. how donald trump era when as the u.s. department of justice against his critics, my friend, glad to have you with, that the law to get into. >> that is for sure. >> you met with kanye west a couple of times. tell me what those meetings were like, what they were about, and how you're thinking about these hideous comments that he is making. anything about it? >> through my company, crosses x, october of last year. i spent about four months working with kanye, on personal matters. when it was resolved, it was resolved amicably. i never heard him make an antisemitic comment at all. he did make mention once or twice that he considered himself jewish. i try to explain to him that being jewish as more than saying your jewish, great? did you have a bat mitzvah?

were you circumcised by him oil? was the wedding with kim under a hope of? the answer to that was a no. but he considers himself to be jewish. i never heard him say that. when i heard these, i was not just upset about it as everybody else, i was kind of appalled by it. not 100% certain i could even figure out why he is doing to himself what he is doing. you told about a guy that is worth billions of dollars, that lost virtually everything now. sponsorships gone. it's a shame. he is talented for what he does. he's an icon in terms of music and fashion. he gave that up in order to make stupid comments of which he won't even apologize for. which makes no sense to me. >> we don't trump ever apologize for the time it is taken for him to put out, there which of course he has yet to do, will he ever condemn the statements. another question, this is maybe a family issue for him. his son-in-law, jared kushner

is jewish, and his daughter ivanka converted to judaism, he made here into, that cannot be going well. >> let me take the second part first. he does not care that ivanka mary jerod. he does not care that ivanka converted. in order to care about somebody 's religion, you have to care about your own religion. donald trump has no ruling, or conviction at all, and you said i was involved as a child with vince in norman peel, or norman vincent peel, once in his whole life, the guy never went to church. i mean, to corinthians, if this does not say it all. he does not care. that probably is a problem for him, or will be as a result of his grandchildren being jewish. modern orthodox. as far as, you know, again, when it comes to apologizing, did he apologize with a david duke in charlottesville? no. have you ever heard donald trump ever apologize? >> never. >> he didn't even apologize to

god. he never did anything wrong. i think every person watching this right now will acknowledge that now everybody that is something wrong in their life. i certainly acknowledge it. donald trump as well. the thought that he can't even acknowledge fault is why he will never apologize, ever. >> interesting. okay, trump organization convictions all 17 counts found guilty, talks fraud, other financial crimes against the organization this week falsifying business records, conspiracy, all of that. what does this do to donald trump's business. what is a due to his brand? there's ultimately, potentially, result in bankruptcy? >> it's not just a district attorney's case. we now also have the attorney general's case, the unsinkable attorney general, who ultimately, she is asking in her 220 plus-page lawsuit for a baseline of 200 and $50 million. i suspect it will be more like 750. as far as the brand is concerned, i think the brand is

over. except in one place, saudi arabia and the gulf coast. >> about that. >> this is where donald trump is running for his money. the same group of people that gave jerry two plus billion dollars for a fine, to which the jury is completely incompetent to run. even stated by the saudi investment authority finance committee. why are we giving him this money? same group of people that bailed out six, six, six fifth avenue. that talked about it, the family got bailed out for 1.1 billion dollars. the worst real estate deal in the history of america. >> you mentioned to james, does this conviction by the new york dea, does this help her case? does it, in any way, is associated in a way that will help bring that went to a slam dunk? >> it was a slam dunk before the alvin bragg determination. some her case being civil has a

different bar. >> it's lower. >> right. she has all the documents in which to prove the assertions, the allegations contained in that lawsuit. does this assist? it does not hurt. does it make her case? no. her case was made a long time ago. >> which of the many lawsuits that donald trump faces the you think is where he is most legally vulnerable? >> i think it is the one that jackson is working on right now, the mar-a-lago document. now that we found there are two additional documents that were found. i have been on so many shows, the station, many others. isa going back to august 31 on that tweet, i believe that the fbi needs to go to every single place that donald trump has been, it's going to be a where's waldo. truck every single place he has been, and you needed to get a search warrant for those locations. don's home, ivanka's home, his

fifth avenue property. eric's home. wherever he was, trump national in d.c. everywhere. why? i guarantee that there will be documents there. now all of a sudden, you find top secret documents in a storage facility. could you imagine if hypothetically, somebody forgot to make a payment, like a tv show storage wars, somebody says oh my god, there is medicine championship belt. if tom brady's helmet. there is top secret information on the nuclear silo locations, or wherever it might be. can you imagine what your talking about here? the thought the fact that you would put it in a storage facility, in my opinion, now goes to the mens rhea, his guilty mind, knowing they were stashing stuff in various different places. >> last question, with regard to the fact that no one on his defense team, none of his attorneys are willing to sign an affidavit or some sort of formal document that says, you've got everything. what does that tell you about what is happening in trump

world? >> i think it cooperate when i said, from august 31 tweet. look at what happened to, what is her name? christina wrap. he threw her under the bus. they turned around, this had people signed an affidavit, they lied to her, she relied upon their statement, she is in trouble, they are not, maybe they will be. at the end of the day, you cannot trust a word that comes out of donald trump's mouth. it's like what everybody always said. how do you know he is lying? his lips are moving. he will not tell you the truth. then he will ask you to attest to it under the penalties of perjury. that is what congress should do. they should make him sign a document attesting under the penalties of perjury that he is no longer in possession of any documents. that belonged janeiro. >> i have one more question, every time we speak, this always comes to mind. you said he would not run again in 2024. is there a distinction in your mind between announcing and actually running, and how do

you see it playing out? >> so far, as i say this so many people, all he hasn't is announced. who is his campaign manager? who is his finance chair? who is the press secretary who is, the schedule? or was anything? the answer, is he does not have a. he just files a piece of paper. does not mean anything. but to get a staff, let me see, all he is doing is grifting off of that announcement. i think he has taken in $30 million. what is wrong with these people. any of them that are watching the show, i don't think there are some. the maga supporters, stop giving your hard earned money to the man, he would not do anything for you, he won't do anything for you, in fact, he probably is not going to run. like i said. >> i will tell you something, you are standing by your word. i love, that see me again soon, my friend. donald trump apparently is a fantasy four races, ropes, and bizarre qanon believers. we will talk to mary trump on that in the next hour. meanwhile, a declaration of independence, jockeying for political position, the cinema scope of the senate.

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but that cough looks pretty bad. try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin. the only brand with real honeyand elderberry. >> you follow today as kirsten sinema cause of the senate shake up for democrats, the arizona senator announcing she is switching her party affiliation to become an independent, just days after democrats increase their senate majority with a victory in georgia. sinema defending the move to reporters on friday. >> my standard today is about joining the many americans, and lots of arizonans, in fact, the majority of registered voters who don't believe that any political party fixed and perfectly. but arizonans can expect me to go back to work and do what i've always done, which is put my head, down and deliver results for our community. >> joining me now is alexia

johnson, political strategist, and founder of ten 63 west for on, and shermichael singleton, political strategist, and host a screen here on peacock. welcome to you both, owns the, you first. she says she's not going to caucus with republicans, nothing will change. do you agree? will nothing change? wilson's party departure effect democrats ability to pass legislation? >> i don't think it's going to change too much in the thought that she has been an obstacle already for democrats. there were times where she voted on piece of the presidents agenda. but kyrsten sinema has been about herself, this move was not really surprising to a lot of her colleagues. so fortunately, we will still keep our majority. she will have the assignment that won't block some of the majority gains that we did, now that we have the. one however, folks are not surprised. hopefully kyrsten sinema will continue to, at least be a champion for some of the big

pieces of policy. but she is doing what we have seen her do before. make this about herself, make this a hard obstacle for us to -- of the social legislation that we need to. so, we will see what happens, hopefully in 2024, we can figure a way to challenger and get her out of the senate. >> that brings internet's question, for you, shermichael, does that allow sinema to avoid a potential democratic challenger? or to ellen's yes point, will there be a challenger, she was a for reelection in 2024. do you see this working in her favor in terms of reelection? >> i think from what i have read, alex, congressman rubin is planning to potentially run, i think he is, he seems to be putting together all of the key. >> reuben gaye. go >> to run for a larger office. with that said, i think the bigger question concerning here would be, if he does decide to run, which is independent, it's smart because more voters and

their home are becoming independent voters. does that give an opportunity for a moderate-leaning of the rate of republican candidate to potentially win that? that will be the greater concern. and is the greater risk for democrats overall. >> interesting. speaking of republicans, let's turn to this latest new a lawsuit filed by republican kari lake in her bid to overturn arizona's election. the lawsuit claims, quote, lake received the greatest number of votes and is entitled to be named the winner. ultimately, the election might be re-done in maricopa county to 11 at the effects of maladministration and illegal votes on the vote tally reported by maricopa county. this is all coming days after her defeat in the governor's race, it was actually certified, valencia. what do you make of this? did you learn anything from trump's failed election fraud claims? >> she did not learn anything. to be honest, this is the republican party playbook. when they, lose they threw a

lawsuit around a claim voter fraud, all of these things, when the reality, though maybe secretary of state have over the years, have tried the hardest to make the ballot box more secure. i'm not surprised, ultimately, that what she is doing in order to steal the election, she literally is taking trump's playbook. and aligning herself with them. we will see what happens when arizona. but listen, there is a governor that has been elected. >> what is the endgame, shermichael, for kari lake? is there any appetite for this among voters in arizona? how does this play out? it's almost laughable that she says, here is the deal,. >> no different than donald trump saying we should get rid of the constitution you should be appointed president, joe biden should be removed. this is the part of the playbook that she was dating.

alex, i have to tell you, i have a different view and perspective an overall assessment on this. i think it's a very good thing that this type of candidates continue to file these lawsuits, i tell you why, it gives voters the opportunity to see all of the evidence. it gives the voters opportunity to see the claims that are far and wide, and extreme out there as they may be. and the judge will review all of this. in many of these instances, those judges have been appointed by republicans. they are still against the republican candidates. i think, at least in my personal view, it completely knocked down and the minister the overall arguments of these widespread fraud or corruption, and the former president continue to articulate. i tell you, file all the lawsuits we want, the evidence is out there, and then a republican appointed judge can say, sorry, the evidence is not on your side. >> my glass half full friend, there you go. okay, let's turn to 2024. we have the new york times reporting during last week's

state dinner with francis emmanuel macron, the president and the first lady indicating they are ready for a 2024 campaign. the president, as you know, says he will make a formal decision on whether or not he runs after the holiday. alencia, you worked for plenty of presidential campaigns, including president biden. what do you make of this reporting of that toast indicating the sentiments? do you see a hit that he knows where he is going to do? do you expect he is going to run? >> absolutely see a hint of what he will do. let's think about the midterms. yes, the republican, at least one majority in the house, let's look at the historic midterm election that the president biden did not lose any -- he actually gain one. we have 51 seats in the united states senate. he is coming in on the this, feeling confident, feeling the american people are saying we, like the -- we like the biden agenda, we need to make sure we move forward progress.

i'm sure he is feeling good, i have not had any of these conversations yet. i would be surprised that we will run from reelection in 2024. he understands that the people who he needs are with him. young people, women voters, and people of color. >> quickly, shermichael, with the republican side, you have donald trump who announced his white house bid, he cleared the feud at all having done so that this will challenge him. if president biden announces, do you think he faces any serious primary challenges? >> no, not at all. i think president biden is perhaps one of the most successful midterms of any president in the past 40 or 50 years. i have even talked to the associates on the democratic side. some stores as a potentially ever, we will find out once the dust settles, of course. i think, you know, the president seems to be very favorable for the most part, if he is running against donald trump. i think there is a different republican challenger who can

articulate a different path forward. i think it could be potentially interesting. if trump is the nominee on the republican side, that i think president biden will have be have a second term. >> okay, thank you, julie noted on both of your parts. alicia, show michael, thank you. a new michael -- nickel in the legal battle. you might not have expected this one. le you might not have expecte this one this one in 99% of people over 50. and it could strike at any time. think you're not at risk? wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. ♪ ♪ this... is a glimpse into the no-too-distant future of lincoln. ♪ ♪ it's what sanctuary could look like... feel like... sound like... even smell like. more on that soon. ♪ ♪ the best part? the prequel is pretty sweet too. ♪ ♪

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trump's lawyers discovered more classified documents, in the former president possession, a rare but modest legal waited for the trump team after a roughly 90 minute secret meeting yesterday afternoon at a d.c. courthouse. it's top federal judge denied a doj request to hold the trump of this in contempt for failing to comply with the subpoena demanding the return of all documents and trump's possession. joining me now, harry lippman, former u.s. attorney, and host of the talking feds podcast. and hugo -- for the guardian. both good friends to us. glad you guys are here. hugo, you have been reporting on this. why were doj prosecutors keen to hold trump office in contempt at this stage of the investigation? >> yeah, it all comes back to the may subpoena, the grand jury subpoena, the doj is using to get the documents from donald trump, basically what had happened in the intervening

months is that trump, at one point over another, have essentially refused to designate a custodian on record to certify the doj once and for all that he has returned all of these classified documents to the government. in recent weeks, the justice department has gone before the chief u.s. judge and the district of columbia and asked that she hold donald trump's office in contempt of court, by not complying with the original subpoena. it all came down to a healing yesterday. essentially, the judge told doj, look, according to holding trump's office in the contempt of court is not the right move, you have to work it out yourselves. >> harry, the thought that no one on trump's team wants to be a custodian of records, do you get that? nobody will sign that it seems. >> it speaks volumes, it is totally unusual, alex. everybody, crime boss, is you always have a custodian of records. it will happen in may, as he was talking about, they gather some documents together, the

lone woman on the totem pole, he says you sign right here. she prudently added, i have not searched personally, but nevertheless, the state moves totally false, she is a criminal lawyer. now nobody wants to repeat that episode. why must to printer -- subpoena trump directly? a little wrinkle for one second, normally,, when you produce documents, even if they are bad for you, there is no fifth amendment problem. just the documents, there is nothing about producing them gets you are not water. here there, the very crime is the possesses these and he should not. he probably has what the lawyer calls an active production the against producing than himself. now there is literally no one to talk with. you would think a logical thing in that situation would be for the chief judge to say, all right, someone has to do something. and yesterday she said keep working it out. we are talking about two years

during which the department is not confident that all of the documents have been returned. remember, they are national security implications here. >> when you say that, were you surprised by the decision by the judge? and could she yet consider charging the office or the president herself with contempt at some point in the future? >> yeah, i think so. looks like she was the one that ordered them to do the search on their own that turned up the two stray documents. she might have been saying, you know, we are not there yet, or she might have been saying, it is just not appropriate. one note is, even if they don't get there, the fact that they have good evidence that trump still has documents, even if they don't know where so they can't do a search warrant, that substance of evidence of the underlying crime, they can still use that to build into the case. right now, you are in this checkmate situation. i was a little surprise that the chief judge did not want to break the law. but the judging a lot to do that, to tell the parties to go

back and work it out. >> okay, you got, the two documents were found in a west palm beach storage unit. what can you tell us about the documents? and just a broader search of his properties? >> yeah, look, we don't know exactly what the documents are. the storage unit from which the documents were found is also the same storage unit which trump's lawyers in january return two dozen boxes to the national archives. there is a storage unit in west palm beach about ten minutes drive from mar-a-lago inland. this is where a number of pallets of boxes are being held. as harry said, the judge effectively ordered trump's lawyers to do if the research to make sure they were in compliance with the subpoena, demanding the return of classified documents and they turned up two additional documents. we don't know the nature of them, that underscores the problem that trump lawyers have in this entire thing, and the

entire content case. the doj want all of the documents back. these trump lawyers are effectively saying, we want to certify all the classified documents because we don't know, there might be more documents out there. we don't know -- we have not had cause to be -- custody of the documents in the past two years, it's difficult for us to say conclusively and comprehensively that these documents to putin. >> i'm curious if all this exacerbates trump's legal troubles even further, you know he is under investigation with three potential crimes in the mar-a-lago case. mishandling of classified documents, obstruction, and obstruction of government records. we'll is the bar for the doj to charge him with at least one of these crimes? >> number one, i think it has been passed. number two, it gets higher on obstruction, which is basically, you have to demand to return things and you don't do it. in that sense, it may be a short term, as you say, modest victory. it surely has riled the doj up,

a situation you never want to have happen with federal prosecutors. i think it increases their resolve, if needed any increasing, to charge him on the mar-a-lago, something about the episode. i think it does go directly into here is someone, look, if they are still there, but he won't tell them, and of course to hugo's point, the reason no lawyer wants to do that is because they know they have a liar for a client, they can't trust. it may be, in the short term, they don't get every document. doctor in the longer term, it built a stronger case that he has not given every document back, which is the basic core of the obstruction base. >> let me pivot to what happens tomorrow on a sunday, i note, you go, with the 16 committee -- with the doj before releasing the report. that will happen on december 21st. who might be the target of those referrals? >> look, i think there are two

points with a meeting tomorrow. the first point is the committee's been meeting every day. they are scheduled to meet tomorrow and to discuss the issue of referrals, but they have been doing this the entire work so it's not clear the significance on the sunday meeting of the first and last friday's meeting with the subcommittee made the presentation. about what the recommendation was. >> time is running out, that is part of it, right? they only have so much time left. >> that's right. i think the committee is trying to tee this upset the referral comes at the same time as the final report as. and the final report publishing date is being pushed back to december 21st, or the week of december 21st. they are in a real crunch between that monday and christmas, they want to get the report out. talking of targets, i don't think anybody should be surprised that the principal target is going to be donald trump. it's going to be people -- i think several of us reported how john eastman, mark meadows or also in the committee sites.

it's quite clear that the committee wants to do referrals. i don't think they decided yet who they want to do it, and what crimes? >> here is what i want, to have you both back very soon. hugo and harry. gentlemen, thank you so much. meantime, new tips and a new lead in the ohio, writer, idaho murder mystery. murder mystery murder mystery music (“i swear”) plays ♪ jaycee tried gain flings for the first time the other day... and forgot where she was. [buzz] you can always spot a first timer. gain flings with oxi boost and febreze. meet leon the third... leon the second... and leon... the first of them all. three generations, who all bank differently with chase. leon's saving up for his first set of wheels... nice try. really? this leon's paying for his paint job on the spot... and this leon, as a chase private client, he's in the south of france, taking out cash with no atm fees. that's because this family of leons has chase. actually, it's león. ooh la la! one bank for now. for later. for life.

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