thanks for watching the katie phang show. i'll be back next. velshi is next. >> today on velshi, the january six committee is huddling this afternoon to discuss criminal referrals for donald trump and his allies. that's still might not be the most and medium blood school jeopardy facing the twice

impeached president. and his niece mary trump. plus, the case that corporate profits are actually a major driver of inflation. and, if you're a fan of very cool things you need to stick around to get an up close look at what's going to happen today when the artemis 1 orion capsule slashes down after its 25-day trip around the moon. months behind a mysterious attack on the power grid in north carolina. velshi starts now. lshi starts now. good morning. it is saturday december the 11th, i am ali velshi 20 days from now the january six committee will be a thing of the past. it's work will come to a close. the group will be dissolved. on december 31st, as required by statute. four of 89 members won't even be returning to capitol hill as members of congress when the new term begins in january. it is time as an investigative body may be winding down.

in its final days, the committee plans to lay out a path forward for how the justice department, and the country, can move forward and use the evidence that the committee has collected, this afternoon the committee will be meeting virtually to discuss this plan to issue criminal deferrals committee chairman, benny thompson, told reporters on capitol hill last week the question isn't if the committee will make criminal referrals but, how many. it is also uncertain right now who may be the subject of those criminal referrals. those are the important details that the committee will discuss, presumably during his meeting today. donald trump is an obvious target. the panel could also issue referrals for any of his associates whom it believes may have been involved in the planning and coordination of the attempted coup on january 6th. criminal referrals from congress hold no legal way the justice department has the sole power to file charges. but, criminal referrals offer the committee to chance to communicate why it thinks filing charges, criminal

charges, is not only important but necessary the fact that the committee had now decided to issue criminal referrals is an interesting development in enough itself some members of the committee previously expressed skepticism about the necessity of doing that. maryland congressman, jamie raskin, and member of the january six committee, said that members of the group, including himself, had been involved in the thinking of criminal referrals. he told politico, quote, i think that the rationale for doing them is when the magnitude and the gravity of the offenses compel congress to speak about what it has found. and quote. the public, you and, i will not be left out of the magnitude in the level of those offenses died there. december 21st, just ten days from now, the january six committee plans to release its long awaited final report detailing the findings of its 18 month long investigation of nature action of the capital. and the events that led up to. it and edition to the release of the report, chairman

thompson says the committee is planning a formal presentation of the report to the public. members will also make the public -- referring to criminal referrals on the same day. the final report is expected to be about 1000 pages long. take the 21st off and be ready to read it. on top of that, the committee also plans to release virtually all of the transcripts of interviews with the witnesses. joining me now is the democratic congressman-elect, daniel goldman of new york. come january, he will represent new york's tenth district. he is an attorney by trade. he has served as majority counsel for the highest impeachment inquiry for donald trump. he was an assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. dana, good morning to you. thank you for being with. us you and i have not talked since the election. graduation under victory. >> thank you very much, i appreciate that. >> let's talk about this, he worked as counsel to a committee doing this sort of work. if you are working with the january 6th committee on the

issue of these criminal referrals, how would you advise them? >> there are a couple of different categories. there is the first category which are potential crimes about which the department of justice would not know, such as witness intimidation. potential false statements. we did hear about some potential witness intimidation at one of the hearings over the summer. there's that category that is a more traditional referral that congress relays over to the department of justice. then there is the category of criminal referrals about the actual underlying conduct in connection to, and a potential conspiracy to overturn the election, which is really what the committee's hearings focused on. the question for the committee is less about whether the department of needs to learn about this conduct, because we know that the special counsel's

office is doing a pretty wide-ranging investigation into the same conduct. i think the real question is that the january six committee has been a historically remarkable committee. this investigation will go down as, probably, the most significant and best congressional investigation ever. d bestwhat i think the committee members are realizing is if this is really going to be a marker for the historical record, for future generations to study, then -- they do feel it is important for them to just make a statement about whether this conduct is potentially criminal or not. i don't think the referrals say this is a crime. whose as you mentioned the department of justice make that decision. but as senator raskin said, the committee feels compelled to

relay their views about potential criminal conduct to the department of justice so that everybody in the public and going forward they can understand the ultimate conclusions of the committee. >> that is some important legal analysis of what they did. one of the reasons to have you on this morning it because you, particularly now that you are a congressman-elect, you have a remarkable understanding of how the mechanics of this works. a situation now a special counsel, jack smith, he has taken over the department of justice is january six investigation. and the investigation into the documents that were found at mar-a-lago. so, what actually happens? december 21st the committee makes its referrals, they vote on. it what happens? do they get it? did they go to jack smith, the justice department? does it go to the top of the pile? ultimately, what is the mechanics of what happens? >> yes. there is an official document that will go over to the department of justice, probably through their legislative affairs office first.

ultimately it will go, by designation to the attorney general, most likely over to the special counsel. if it falls under the conduct of investigation of the special counsel -- i will say this, it is going to be very important for the department of justice, it is going to be last about the criminal referrals and much more about the transcripts that are going to be released because the department has not had access to those transcripts. it will be a very busy end of the year in january for the members of the special counsel's team to be combing through those transcripts. to make sure they have as much information as the january six committee does so that they can then focus and direct their investigation based on the outstanding investigation of the january 6th committee. >> we hear on news talk about this all the time. we'll be very excited undersecretary first read this. thing will take the thousand

pages, give it to ten people the each read 100 pages. is going to create an expectation amongst us in the news business, amongst our viewing public when they see these criminal referrals. does that have any influence on the department of justice? they are not looking at cable news to decide whether they should -- how can you weigh the reaction by the public when you describe an excellent investigation and what the department of justice actually decide to do about it? >> as i said, the category that they are unaware of, i think it will be very helpful. i think they will look at that very carefully. for the referrals that may come for individuals associated with donald trump, or who were involved in the conspiracy overturning the election, i think that the only real impact on the department of justice is they may feel compelled to respond to congress. to explain their decision, ultimately if they do not

charge these individuals. that happens with the mark meadows criminal contempt referral. the department of justice did feel compelled to explain to congress why they were not pursuing charges. i don't think it has an influence on whether or not they charge. there is some degree of transparency and responsiveness that the department feels towards congress. i do feel that that will ultimately be something that is important. you know, one other thing about this report ali i think it is very true especially about the public hearings we had. if, ultimately, jack smith charges donald trump, or others, with crimes, it will be in an indictment. it will be a lengthy document. it will not have video, it will not have a bunch of testimony included. based upon this report and the public hearings, the public really have a much better sense of what the conduct is

underlying that indictment. i think that is a real service. i think that will be a real help to the department of justice. as you know nothing in court can be videotaped. we will actually know until the trial what the testimony and evidence is. we will just have this indictment. because of the january six committee, we will have a clear picture of what the indictment alleges. >> congressman-elect, dan goldman, good to see you my friend. thank you for joining. the congressman elect is the former majority counsel for the house impeachment committee for donald trump. a former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. for more on this i'm joined by tim o'brien now, -- he is an msnbc political analyst. the author of the book trump nation, the art of being the donald. tim -- pardon me, i wanted to bring you in for the other side of the equation. donald trump of the equation. this guy, donald trump, for the

last few weeks has been staring down the barrel of the january six invigoration, jack smith booking of the january six investigation, the parallel department of justice investigation. mar-a-lago, his company is being found guilty in new york state, the georgia investigation. there is a lot of stuff closing in on donald trump today. he likes to pretend he doesn't care about this stuff. maybe part of the not caring is declaring he's gonna run for president. what is going on with donald trump right now? >> i think donald trump completely recognizes he has existential france in front of him, ali. i think there is this myth that has developed around rump that he is gave everything that he can't be touch he not only have nine lives but he has 18. the reality is he has never had these intense purposeful investigations on his door slept over multiple jurisdictions with very serious

consequences, attended to all of them. the manhattan district attorney's case, it may have other dimensions to it, but even if all we get out of that is this recent fraud conviction against the company, and a fine the company can easily digest, there still are these other titanic prosecution staring at him. the new york state attorney general could put the trumps out of business permanently in new york. the justice department, on criminal charges, he could end up in jail. do i think it will go there? i don't know. he is very wear of the. i think one of the reasons he continues to put himself in the public eye as a possible presidential candidate is he believes it will give him some insulation from the consequences of these investigations. in addition to being a fund raising tool, his own media addiction, he would not be acting this way if he wasn't

worried about the suits. >> does it give him some insulation? the gaslighting that he continues to engage in d'shawn polling. albeit he is getting last support than he ever had before. a lot of people he supported in the midterm elections did not win. fox has deserted him. the new york post test deserted him. bottom line is, lots and lots of americans and lots and lots of republicans still support him. does that provide any it's collation? the answer when it comes to criminal prosecution is no but it is something of value to him. >> i think it's a value to him, hallie, is the prosecutors are worried about indicting him creating a political firestorm. that they will be seen as political actors rather than law enforcement officials. i think that is why you've had a series of prosecutors dance very delicately across this. bob mueller, alvin bragg, merrick garland, all of them have had this seen in the back

of their minds. why be accused of over politicizing something. the reality now is the pattern of what he did in georgia, what he did at mar-a-lago. the evidence of the january six committee putting that into the public realm, it all shows a very deep evidence. very damning evidence of crimes. he should be held accountable for. i do not think it is a legal issue that will get in the way. i think it is people worried about the political ramifications. i don't think law enforcement should worry about that, ultimately. i think they should enforce the law. i think it's important that americans understand that no one, including the president, is above the rule of law. he does get instantly -- a political actor, polling around 30% of republican voters. >> tim, good to see you as always. senior analyst at bloomberg opinion an msnbc political analyst. author the author of, trump

nation the art of being the donald. ahead of the january 6th meeting today i will talk to two friends of the show who know the man at the senate in the investigation intimately. trump's former attorney michael cohen and his niece, mary trump. plus, russia's latest war tactic attacking ukraine's biograde and freezing out definitions. by definition, targeting civilian infrastructure constitutes a war crime. we will take a look at how russia can be held accountable. but first, they silenced her. -- a veteran palestinian american journalist was shot and killed by israeli forces. forces. at pfizer, we're driven by this impulse. we've reached hundreds of millions of lives with our covid-19 response. and we keep innovating. whatever comes next, we will respond fiercely. like family. ♪

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these are the words of the older brother of shireen abu aqleh. he and his daughter, lena, still to found of the international criminal court on tuesday with shireen's photo

pill to her the. piled his sister, shireen abu aqleh, devoted her life to reporting on abuses of palestine by israeli forces. that is until shireen abu aqleh found herself on the other side of the story. a journalist for al jazeera was covering an israeli raid on a palestinian refugee camp in the west bank back in may. shots right now, she was struck in the head. she died of her injuries. abu aqleh was wearing a protective helmet and of that clearly marked process. eyewitnesses, including a fellow journalist, say she was shot by israeli story. at first the israeli government denied all station. and usually blaming a palestinian government. then israel shifted its narrative. months later the israeli military concluded there is a, quote, high probability end quote that abu aqleh was quote, accidentally hit, end quote, by israeli fire. israel maintains that her death was unintentional. it will not hold the soldier

who shot shireen abu aqleh to account. al jazeera and the family of abu aqleh show that the shooting was not accidental. when abu aqleh was first killed, the american government seemed eager to help find accountability for her death. in may, the state department spokesperson said, quote, that those responsible for shireen's killing should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. that was then, this is. now apparently, the fullest extent of the law stopped that international law. now that abu aqleh's killing has been brought to the international court the united states seems to be pulling back with our call for accountability. on tuesday, al jazeera submitted a case against israeli forces at the icc. al jazeera's legal team conducted a six month investigation saying that they unearth new evidence into their killing. i'll just zero semen said in a statement quote, the new witness evidence and video footage clearly show that shireen are colleagues are

directly fired up by the israeli occupation forces. the claim by the israeli authorities that shireen was killed by mistake in an exchange of fire is completely unfounded. end quote abu aqleh's family commanded its own some complain to the icc in september. they say they have seen no meaningful action from the court. it is unlikely they will see any meaningful action at all. israel does not recognize the icc's authority. it refuses to conglomerate with any investigation into possible war crimes in the occupied territory. the prime minister jair lapid made it pretty clear in a statement. saying, no one will investigate israeli soldiers, and no one will preach to us about morals and warfare, certainly not al jazeera. the u.s. is also taking the position that the international criminal court is no place for israeli palestinian issues. >> when it comes to the icc, we maintain our long-standing

objections to the icc's investigation into the palestinian situation. and the position, the icc should focus on its core mission. the core mission of serving as a court of lassiter in punishing and deterring atrocity crimes. it is worth reiterating that shireen abu aqleh was an american citizen. the fbi had opened an investigation into abu aqleh's killing. according to al jazeera the u.s. justice department has not come from the israeli accounts, and the state department distance itself from the possible explanation saying that the move would be outside of its purview, end quote. putting aside the fact that a journalist was killed by the forces of the government, it is not the job of the fbi to investigate the killing of an american citizen. israeli refuses to investigate. it is not the purview of an international court either, how will shireen abu aqleh ever get justice? since the election of joe biden,

the united states has been a better ally to the palestinians. progress has certainly been made. it seems like every time things get a little too messy with america shiny relationship with israel risks getting tired -- shireen abu aqleh what is an american, shireen abu aqleh whether journalist. in the greatest tradition of her profession, placed herself on the ground in the line of fire to get the story. she was bearing witness. she never got to do the second part of her witness as a journalist. holding power to account. now it is time for the world, and america, to finish that job. ent, subaru retailers have supported over seventeen hundred hometown charities. (phil) have i witnessed and seen the impact of what we do? you bet i have. (kathryn) we have worked with so many amazing causes and made a difference. (vo) by the end of this year, subaru and our retailers will have donated over two hundred and fifty million dollars to charity. (brent) it's about more than just selling cars. (phil) the subaru share the love event going on now.

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russia. the first one looks at whether the invasion of ukraine was lawful to begin with. what is known as a crime of aggression under international law. dubbed the mother of all crimes, that offenses committed when one country attacks another without justification. the international criminal court is the usual vehicle for pursuing such claims. not in this case because russia is not a member of the international criminal court. and special threat beam is being proposed at the united nations level. the idea of an independent tribunal received a boost last week when they had of the eu commission backed the proposal. if launched, the tribunal would allow for the first international criminal trial on aggressions war since the aftermath of world war ii. the second path were holding russia's perpetrators of war criminally accountable has to do with investigating war crimes that have been committed during this conflict. this is an area where the icc does have the authority to investigate both russia and ukraine, since these

prosecutions only require ukraine's consent, regardless of whether or not russia is a member of the icc. war crimes include summary executions, torture, using starvation as a weapon, deploying banned weapons and deliberately attacking civilian targets. this brings us to russia's targeted attacks on ukraine's power grid. for nearly two months now, you russia has been pounding ukraine's energy grid. at one point leaving 10 million ukrainians without electricity or heat. just as winter arrives and temperatures drop below zero. almost half of ukraine's energy infrastructure have been destroyed. millions of people across the country face daily blackouts. the u.s. and amnesty international have called the attacks a war crime. russia has denied intentionally targeting civilian infrastructure. depicting the attacks as quote, legitimate military targets. even with an object can be deemed a legitimate military target, there are in fact still limits on how you can legally

be attacked. with more on this i'm joined by ona hathaway, upper fender of international law yale law school. former special counsel for the international -- she has just returned from a trip to the international criminal court at the hague. she made the case for the creation of an international tribunal for prosecution of russia. professor, good to see. you thank you for being with us again. >> thank you for having me. >> you and i have had lots of conversations, in february in march about the things, back then, looked like war crimes, that russia was committing in ukraine. much has changed since then, including the targeting of civilian power infrastructure. can you tell me how you think about this? power infrastructure in lviv which is very far from the front lines. kyiv, far from the actual battle lines between ukraine and russia. these are affecting civilians. how do we think about this when russia says those are legitimate military targets? >> you are absolutely right. it is very clear that russia is

not doing what it legally is required to do. distinguishing between military targets and civilians. this is one of the fundamental obligations of international humanitarian law. it is called the principle of distinction. russia has been violating it, left and right. targeting structures that are fundamentals disability ins. it allows them not only electricity but it's essential to managing hospitals, ensuring that people are able to stay warm during the winter. these have clearly been targets, direct targets, of russian military operation. >> what were you arguing for at the hague? what was a conversation about. the tribunal to look into these things? how is that different from the normal course of prosecuting war crimes? >> one of the challenges that we face is the international criminal court has jurisdiction over war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide. it does not have jurisdiction over the core crime, the crime

of launching these illegal war in the first place. russia is not a party to the statute that creates the international criminal court, that one crime cannot be brought against russia, or russians -- putin, lavrov, any of the leaders against the russian government. in order to charge them for this fundamental crime, you have to create a new tribunal. a special tribunal to trial the crime of aggression. there is an effort underway to do that. creating new court for this purpose, narrowly focused on the crime of aggression. the conversation now of how exactly to do that, where to center it. who is going to pay for it. there are a lot of details still to be worked out. >> where is the united states on this? does that matter? >> the united states has not come out with a clear position. in a way, that is a good thing. they have not come out strongly in favor, and have not come out

strongly against it. in some ways that is the best of all wars. the united states staying out of the conversation. the united states is not a party to the international criminal court. it participates in the meetings as an observer but not as a party member. i think it's best of other nations take the lead on this for now. the u.s. tend to be supportive by, in a sense, staying out of the conversation. indicate a willingness to see the court created. let other countries, european and african countries take the lead role in making this decision, rather than it necessarily coming from the united states. >> further my view are saying, why when we want the united states to take a strong position, as you and i have discussed, the united states have not always been where some of my viewers win and be the right place in this thing. i just sided with the investigation onto the death of shireen abu aqleh, taking a

strong position of the icc should not be involved. >> the u.s. has not always been the biggest fan of international justice. it put in place sanctions against judges and people who were responsible for running the international criminal court when the icc undertook an investigation of u.s. abuses in afghanistan. certainly we are hearing calls from those who say, why are we creating a special core here for ukraine? no one's ever looked into the possible illegality of the war in iraq. there are concerns about double standards. the united states, which has not always been on the right side of these questions, in some ways it is best for it to step back and let others take the lead on this. it is a question of whether to take -- >> professor hathaway thank you for joining us. it is important conversation i think we need to continue a lot of. front feather hathaway is a

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noon nasa's orion spacecraft is concluding its artemis 1 mission. set to splash down later today, right off the western coast of baja, california. near mexico. the orion was sent into the orbit for a series of tests to see how it systems operated in deep faith conditions. weather could withstand the 5000 degree fahrenheit temperatures that are generated upon re-temperature re--- nasa plans to follow up on the artemis 1 mission by sending four astronauts around the moon in the program second flight, artemis two, likely in 2024. nbc's lindsey reiser, as you know, has been covering this fender gaining. including the false starts that occurred. now, it's coming back. now what? >> it's so exciting, ali. we will show the video the launch. i was very kennedy space center. you predicted this, it felt different. the energy was palpable. people knew that they were witnessing history. this is the most powerful

rocket nasa has ever. bill they tested their sls system, it worked! it hoisted orion up into state. the booster and the core stage dropped off. and then orion was on a trajectory for space. let's go ahead and show the flight path to remind people where orion when. orion to the moon, first at a very close slab of the moon and then went into distant retrograde this is really neat because this tested the spacecraft for deep space. this is further than any vehicle before humans had ever been. 40,000 miles past the far side of the moon. then orion went close to the moon, about 75,000 miles again. we have incredible images that orion took out the moon. never before seen images, the detail! you can also see, in some of the images, the crescent earth. just incredible. coming home, orion use the gravity of the moon. a lunar gravity assists to

slingshot back to the earth. that is where orion it is right now. splash down supposed to be around 12:39. let's go ahead and show some navy teens here they have been practicing for this as well. orion it's going to have to go from 24,500 miles per hour to zero. it is going to be a test for those heat shields. these navy recovery teams have been practicing this. they are going to study the spacecraft want it splashes down. they will do above and below water imagery. it will take a couple of hours. then they will pull orion onto the deck of the uss portland. then, velshi, we can talk about artemis two in our mystery. >> that is amazing, so far a success. we will have to wait for those last few minutes to see what the splash down looks like. i have to ask you, you were there for the launch. this is the most powerful lockett. i have been at a launch, a shuttle launch. it's a less powerful thing. but, how did it feel? you can captured on tv but it feels like something else? >> it was the middle of the night. you never now. we all had so much adrenaline.

we could see, but we were about five miles away, as a profile. i was with tom passed a law no, i touch my show -- he was so powerful. >> they really feels like something. what an amazing thing you got to watch. great to see you, my friend. >> thank you so much. >> we are all feeling the effects of inflation, by the way. it is not just prices that are on the rise, corporate profits are up to. could that be driving inflation? we will discuss that after the break. he break. et it bad, it may be because they have a high-risk factor. such as heart disease, diabetes, being overweight, asthma, or smoking. even if symptoms feel mild, these factors can increase your risk of covid-19 turning severe. so, if you're at high risk and test positive, don't wait. ask your healthcare provider right away if an authorized oral treatment is right for you. ♪ from holiday hills, illinois to rudolph, wisconsin.

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into our newsroom right. now u.s. and scottish authorities say they have the locker be bombing suspect in custody. -- a libyan is accused of making the bomb destroyed a passenger plane over lockerbie scotland back in december 24th 1988. pan am 103 heading from london to new york exploded over

locker be scotland killing all 209 people aboard and another 111 on the ground. 111 killed were americans. this was the deadliest terror attack ever on british soil. this story is developing and we will have more on in the next hour. switching gears now let's talk about inflation according to movies analytic a typical u.s. household spends about $45 more each month in 2022 because of inflation, compared to last year. on the show we routinely dalvin to the various factors that drive inflation. the rise in the cost of law materials and. labor the cost of energy to make things. the cost of transport to ship them. supply chain issues, even the war in ukraine. there is another factor that is often overlooked. corporate profits. when inflation is high, companies may raise their prices to pass the increase prices that they paid to consumers without cutting into their own profits. that's understandable. sometimes, without us fully

registering that they are doing it customer -- high inflation by using it as a cover to market products even higher than what would be necessary to recoup the higher costs. for example, during an investor call, the ceo of kroger, the grocery store giant says, quote, we view a little bit of inflation is always good in our business. and we would expect a bill to pass that through. this isn't only happening in the food space it is widespread across industries. let's look at auto zone, a retailer that sold car parts and accessories. it's all earnings jumped 13% in the fourth quarter. during an investor call early this year, it's the four referred to inflation as, quote, a little bit of a friend in terms of what we see as retail pricing. procter & gamble, a essential good company from diapers to toothpaste raise goodbye 9% in the last quarter. why? because it can. according to the ceo of groundwork collaborative, a group that tracks corporate earnings, p&g admitted the strategy as --

corporate profits in the non financial sector hit record high this year following a two quarter dip in 2020. quarterly profits have surged over 80% ever since. not to mention the sheer number of high-profile mergers and acquisitions that we've seen in the past decades. in many sectors, consolidation of that magnitude means that companies have become so big that they no longer have to compete with one another. there is no incentive to keep prices low. journalists are not the only ones looking into this. congress is, as well. during a september hearing, representative kristen abortive, who serves as a chair of the economic subcommittee addressed inflation saying, in part, there are other factors that contribute to inflation that have not received enough consideration. one of those factors is extreme price-sized companies raising prices far higher than accounting for shifts in supply and demand. resulting in the highest profit

margins we have ever seen in the past 70 years. after the break, i will speak with sheila cohocton, our former staff analyst for the new yorker about the world that profitability has played on high inflation and what, if anything, can be done about it. be done about it ed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ever wonder why they call it the american dream... and not the american goal? announcer: derek jeter ...or plan? maybe... it's because in dreams, you can do anything. in dreams... you can hold your entire world in the palm of your hand. and turn time inside out... again and again. and you can do it all with your eyes wide open. research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia.

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driver of the inflation we are seeing today. or, at least a part of the. corporations charging more money for their products to services simply to increase their profits and bottom line under the cover of inflation. for more on the subject, i am joined by sheila cole hawk are a former hedge foot analyst, a staff writer for the new yorker and author of an important book, black edge inside dirty information and the quest to bring down the most wanted man on wall street is a great book it's about cohen and his companies. sheila this one is hard to pin. down yap to have information on why a company would have raised prices. we are seeing increased evidence that some companies are saying with the price of labor going up, while materials, oil, and shipping. everybody has got to head around the fact that there's inflation, but we just jack up prices a little bit more to protect to increase our profits? >> well, if you are running a company right now there are a lot of good excuses to raise prices. as you mentioned, costs of all sorts of materials have

increase, due to disruptions in supply chain. we have a war going on in ukraine. we are still dealing with the effects of a pandemic. then, of course, something's happen that we have been waiting for four years. wages for average worker start lead to go up. households have more money to spend. there are all these factors that make it really easy for a company ceo to say, you know what? look at all the things going on in the market we can raise prices. there's a lot of evidence that corporate prices are up many percentage points. one estimate 8% or more from a year before. the question then becomes, why do they have to raise prices quite so much, if they are really making 8% more money than they did last year, obviously they have covered their own cost set of increase to do their own inflationary pressures. then you have to look at the fact that, wow, we live in a capitalist as i any. most corporations think their only duty is to maximize returns for their shareholders. as long as they can do this

they will. really, the only solution is for people to stop buying so much stuff. >> that was amazing. he led it everywhere and needed it to go. it's there is no law is broken. this is not gouging. it's not selling water at a premium during a hurricane. the question is, what do we, as society, think it's fair? we are an accomplice aside. eight people have 401(k) s, they invest in these companies. it is fine if it is profitable. what duty do they have? how, as a consumer, do i make those decisions. i'll stop here because they are being fair about. they are passing on him either actual, legitimate, increased costs. every small business i do business with has got to do. that they have higher labor costs of things cost little bit more. i am fine with that. how do i distinguish between the companies fairly passing on their increased cost in those taking advantage of the idea that there is inflation to make more money off of me at this moment? >> households, even though many of them experienced increases

in wages, which have been long overdue for a lot of middle income american workers, they are feeling a lot of pressure right now as well. housing has increased, how, fuel have been way up. grocery bills are astronomical. what is ultimately going to have to happen is consumers have to reach their limit and become fed up. here this around me all the time. people are getting a little bit sick of the aggressive increases in pricing. it has become transparent that they are not all necessary. unless someone is delivering a really important good or service of extremely high quality, consumers are just gonna start refusing to pay. ultimately that is going to happen with not necessarily purchases. going out to restaurants for example. doing things that you don't absolutely need to do to survive. people are gonna start conserving the resources were really critical expenditures. we can hope that that will send a message to companies that

they have gone a little bit too far. they need to moderate their quest for profits through higher prices to match what is right, and what consumer demand actually expects of them. >> i wonder if it would work the other way? i wonder if there is a messaging opportunity from companies to be able to say, we are not increasing our profits at your expense right now. we know you are going through a tough time. we may have to pass on some increased costs. there may be company saying we will eat those increased costs. we aggregate people cannot make determinations on which company is doing it or isn't. i wonder if would be a neat marketing tool in 2023 to say, we're being fair to you. >> i'm surprised some communications strategist haven't suggested that. it might work. truthfully, i think that big corporations do not have a ton of credibility in the market right now. people have come to not trust them. as you mentioned earlier, there has been so many