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i'm yasmin vossoughian. if you're just joining us, welcome. if you're sticking with us, thank you for that. a crucial meeting today. the january six committee is considering criminal referrals as we get closer to their final report and we will also have the latest fallout on senator kyrsten sinema's decision to leave the democratic party. in a moment, i want to talk to our colleagues about what this means for democrats going forward. we are going to follow the breaking news in an arrest in the lockerbie bombing. we will have a very important guest today, a man who is turning his own experience with tragedy involving a downed plane into action it is the subject of a powerful new film. >> where is my daughter? she was supposed to be at the school in grade five. she is in the cemetery.

i want to know what happened to my wife and my daughter. >> the site of the disaster, the evidence is in iran. no one outside of iran has any direct access. >> but his grief is the fuel that he is using to take on the iranian regime. he will join me with the director of the documentary 752 was not a number. that's a conversation you don't want to amiss. that's not ahead. as they discuss their plans today to release the final report, which could include criminal referrals for former president trump and some of his top former allies as well. we are starting on capitol hill, following it all. let's start to the -- what can you tell us about the discussions they are having in the final report? when will we see it? >> yeah, look, yasmin. december 21st, that day that we are eyeing. committee members confirmed to us that is the day the

committee plans to present. they have an expansive public report, potentially including whether they have many decisions for criminal referrals. we know the meeting that is still underway, they are meeting virtually. they are talking right now about that question. it is one they have been grappling with for months. it's why they lead four members of the committee to create what they are calling a subcommittee to gather findings to see, whether all of the 1000 plus people the committee had interviewed, all the pages of documents they have collected, proving whether the committee needs to issue criminal referrals. even potentially those members of congress that republicans -- they have not heard back from that snow. let's listen to what adam schiff said earlier today. he, by the way, was part of that subcommittee in charge with presenting those findings to the rest of the committee to see whether or not they will

have to make those criminal referrals. take a listen. >> we are looking at what the quantum of evidence that we have against individuals is, what the impact of making a referral is. are we going to create some suggestions by referring that others that was not sufficient -- we don't know what evidence is in the position? we want to be very careful about how we do them. i think we are all certainly in agreement that there is evidence of criminality here. we want to make sure the justice department is aware. >> to be clear, yasmin, these referrals, if they do happen, are nothing more than symbolic. they are nothing more than messaging. it is perhaps messaging that committee is going to decide to make, especially as they close out in these final weeks. >> while i have you, if you could, talk to us about what you are hearing on capitol hill today, especially as senator sinema announced she was leaving the party. >> well, look. democrat, especially your colleagues, know they need to be careful not to alienate her

as she becomes an independent, the third senate independent. one of her fellow independents, bernie sanders, who does caucus with democrats, a step -- he had this to say about her earlier today. take a listen. >> i happen to suspect that it is probably a lot to do with politics back in arizona. i think the democrats there are not all that enthusiastic about someone who helps avatars some of the most important legislation that protects the interests of working families and voting rights and so forth. i think it really has to do with her political aspirations for the future in arizona. for us, i think nothing much has changed in terms of the functioning of the u.s. senate. she is a corporate democrat who has along with senator manchin sabotaged enormously important legislation. >> a snub there from senator

bernie sanders. like i mentioned, other democrats are being more careful than he was. there is no secret that she has voted against and stood in the way of key items. the important part here is that the democrats are saying that they will keep their 51 seat majority. senator sinema will keep her committee assignments as a democrat. >> julia tsirkin, we thank you. i want to bring in senator maisy moreno. thank you for joining me. can you pick up on where we left off with julie? what is your reaction to senator sinema leaving the democratic party? >> it is pretty clear that krysten sinema is pretty independent, but the main thing is that she is part of the 51 member democratic senate which is going to enable us to move forward. that is an important aspect of what is happening after this election. >> i have to say that senator schumer did not seem perturbed

by the announcement from senator sinema. is this the same dance that we saw before with joe lieberman way back when? he proved to be so integral to the passage of the affordable care act. >> this is why i don't think speculating as to krysten's political motivations, et cetera, that does not much good. she is part of a majority. we are going to proceed with the things that we need to do which will support working families. she's going to -- i would say, she's an independent minded person. that doesn't mean we agree on everything. i'm glad she's going to caucus with the democrats. >> all right, let's talk j six. we've been talking about this meeting. we're talking about possible criminal referrals. the final issues going to be issued in the coming weeks.

what criminals are you expecting here? why? what number are you expecting? what do you really want to come see out of this final report? >> the january 6th commission is going to refer to what they are going to refer, but at the same time, we have the justice department is proceeding with their own investigation with a special counsel. i expect that what is going to happen is that this former president is going to be accountable for what happened in january 6th. he has kept documents that he should never have had at mar-a-lago and wherever else he might have these documents. >> let me ask you this, senator hirono. is the senate inclined to pick up any outline investigations which still need to be wrapped up when it comes to january 6th if they feel like the investigations are not complete now that the republicans are taking over how schedule?

>> as i said, the justice department is proceeding with their own investigation. i think that's important to hold this ex president accountable. he is -- there is a lot for the senate to do. i think we are concerned about the leagues and the supreme court. we're concerned about bobby wright. i would call the extremist supreme court in the fact that they don't even have any kind of rules that they abide by. this is -- i have a feeling that they have hearings on things such as allowing the state legislature to determine -- we're talking about a court that is very -- not a biden with president. >> the senate plans to hold hearings on? >> i think so. last time i talked with dick

durbin -- we are concerned about what the supreme court is doing. as i said, they don't have a code of ethics, which would require them to -- the kinds of actions that other -- the supreme court does not. >> senator hirono, let's talk quickly about the split government. there are going to be investigations into the president, into the president's family as well in the house come january with a new session with republican control. how does the senate, how can the senate, i should say, counter act those investigations? is there any plan to do so? >> if the republicans in the house want to misuse their power by going after president biden and anyone else and totally misuse taxpayer money to do that, i think that they are going to find, especially after the indications of this past election and the turning

back of counter extremist candidates that were on the ballot that we are going to find that the republicans are going to lose a majority. they just recently won it. they didn't win it by much. >> senator mazie hirono -- >> they are digging a hole for themselves. you know it? i hope that in the senate we will proceed with the kinds of things that will support our working families and jim jordan can't continue to dig a hole for the republicans. they will soon lose the majority that they lost one. that's my view. >> senator mazie hirono, it is great to talk to you. thank you. straight ahead, more than 30 years after the lockerbie bombing, and you arrest. i will talk to a woman who lost her brother on pan am 103. a man who lost his wife and a daughter in another plain tragedy. using that paid to fight against the iranian regime. my interview with hamed esmaeilion is coming up. plus, a successful end to the

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let's talk about the breaking news about the lockerbie bombing suspect in u.s. custody after decades of frustration. the justice department said he is now being brought to the u.s. where he will appear before a district court in washington. the 1988 bombing of pan am flight over scotland killed 189 americans. we are following the story. i think the ultimate question here for so many individuals, so many years after this bombing in 88, how did they find this guy? >> yeah, that's right, yasmin. this guy is basically at large for 34 years. the initial investigation was not about the man who masterminded the attack,

al-megrahi. in 2017, u.s. officials had received an interview conducted by libyan a law enforcement knew that 2012. masud admitted to building the bomb, transporting the bomb. he said that it had been sanctioned by libyan intelligence. when the attack had finally been carried out, gaddafi thanked him and his other perpetrators for carrying out the attack. he still have not been found. about two years ago, the u.s. had issued a warrant for his arrest. they said he was the man who had built the bomb who was -- a militant group apparently kidnapped masud. they got in touch with americans, saying they could possibly give him for -- that's apparently what happened. he was handed over about one month ago, as you mentioned. he's on his way to the states. the families of the lockerbie bombing what a lot of answers

to what happened. how was the bomb exactly made? more importantly, they want to know why they did this to get some sort of closure on that heinous attack. that is the worst terrorist attack on british soil. >> up next, thank you, my friend. with us now is the president of the victims of pan am 103 and the sister of someone among the victims that day in scotland. thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. i know you were just 15 years old when your brother died. he was your older brother. so many years later, what is it like to hear this news? >> it's a long time coming. it's something that the families have fought for for over three decades to have all of those accountable, all of those responsible held

accountable. while there is another person, there still a great step toward holding all of those who murdered our loved ones accountable for this terrorist act. >> what do you want to know, kara? >> what do i want to know? gosh, you don't have enough time to know what i want to know. essentially, why, how -- all of the details. i mean, everything he can tell, us i want to know. >> can you tell me about your brother? >> he was here normal 20 year old kid. he had this way about him. he had a charisma about him that people wanted to be around. people were better for being around him, whether it be a kind word or a smile. people left feeling about themselves having been around

him. he had a wicked sense of humor. he was a great friend. he was real. he could adamant his weaknesses. he knew his strength. he was not afraid to challenge themself. he had a unique perspective about the world. who he was just the normal big brother that i miss very much. >> 30 plus years later, kara, when you learn of this newsmurdf your brother, does it take you back to that day that you found no? >> of course it does. i was 15. i had to tell my parents that my brothers plane was missing, had crashed. everything takes you back. it's a very little thing. it's not an easy thing. i'm coming full circle as i have a son about to graduate college. my youngest son is the same age i was why this happened.

he's a sophomore in high school. i and my parents -- there are 1000 things that can take you back to that day. yeah, a daylight a day, definitely, but this is a huge step. a lot of people have fought very hard for over three decades to make this happen. the families, the government officials, the investigators, it's a huge step. >> i hope you get the answers that you deserve. kara weipz, thank you for talking to us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> some other breaking news that we are following, everyone. u.s. forces killed to islamic state officials in eastern syria today. u.s. central command said a helicopter raid was conducted this morning after extensive planning. one of the ices members killed was a syrian province official involved in plotting and facilitation operations in eastern syria. the news comes nearly two weeks

after the leader of ice was killed by local syrian forces in october. up next, my interview with the man who lost everything when a ukrainian flight carrying his wife and daughter or shot down inside iran, including a look at the documentary exploring his search for justice and answers. his search for justice and answers. this is a nightmare for the families. this will be our nightmare forever. thinking about those moments. ng about those moments ng about those moments ♪ kevin! kevin! kevin? oh nice. kevin, where are you... kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. i'm gonna cashback on a gingerbread house! oooh, it's got little people inside! and a snowglobe. oh, i wished i lived in there. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! that it is! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. ♪

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all. it has continued to block a full investigation amongst the victims. the wife and nine-year-old daughter of iranian canadian dentist hamed esmaeilion. a new documentary, 752 is not a number, chronicles his quest for answers. >> where is my daughter? she was supposed to be at the school in grade five are now. she's in a cemetery. i want to know what happened to my wife and my daughter. >> the site of the disaster, the evidence in iran, no one outside of iran has any direct access. >> [speaking non-english] >> that is the director, babak payami. he is sitting right here as well along with hamed esmaeilion, both joining me now. welcome to you both. thank you for joining us. >> hamed, i know this is hard

for you. i'm sure there's a lot to talk about two years later. if you can, take me back to that day that you learned of the crash of this plane. >> yeah. the day, january 8th, that was a day that they were supposed to -- the plane was supposed to land in toronto. i was supposed to go to the airport. the night before, the time that they took off from the tehran airport, i was cleaning the house. i was putting gas in the car. i was making everything ready for them after 13 days of their trip. i heard that iran had attacked u.s. bases in iraq. i was in agony. i was very stressed. when i saw the plane took off, when i saw the plane close to

the borders, i said, okay, they are safe. that was just automatic. it was unreal. one hour later, i found eight missed calls. >> you started to figure out what happened? >> i realized what had happened. >> babak, the the film is incredible. so much about it is hamed seeking justice. why did you want to make this film? >> i did not set out to make a documentary. when this happened, everyone in the community got caught up in the story. i was called by some mutual friends. they told me that hamed it is going to -- there might be trouble. what can you do to help? it was a matter of emotional involvement. we started talking to the

government officials. once hamed came back after learning that the plane was shot down, he decided to return the remains of his wife and daughter to canada. once he came back, covid restrictions were hitting. we had the chance to sit down and really top face to face about justice, about what to do next. i was dealing with a person who justifiably was devastated. he's a writer and i am a filmmaker. one of the things that i could have done was to memorialize what he was going through. as an example of the 176 other families they were going through, by extension, and a whole nation is going through it. >> hamed, after you learned that your wife and daughter were killed, or murdered in the plane crash, you went back to iran, right? you were trying to seek answers, to bring them home, to bring them back to the hall where you

all lived together. you face roadblocks. he faced bureaucracy. you are not even able to attend the memorial and your wife's hometown. why was that? >> at the first place, my decision was to -- as soon as i learned that the republic of iran is the reason of the downplaying, that they shot down at least two missiles in the plane, the whole family decided to bring them to canada. we knew that the iranian government wanted to do that. they wanted to prove that all of the run on -- they were iranians that were buried here. there is no legal point here for other countries. i contacted our government in canada. they said, if you get arrested, we can't do anything.

you have to stay low profile. that is why i couldn't attend the memorials. it was a big fight to repatriate the remains. >> this might be a naive question, but how have you been able to survive? how have you been able to turn the tragedy for yourself into a fight for justice, to wake up every day, put your shoes on, work on this documentary having lost your wife and daughter? what drives you right now? >> i think after i realized what we have gone through after three years, you have to say that you have two options. option one is to stay home and go through depression, ptsd, and option two is to fight. i can't tell you the -- they will not give up. >> before we talk, i want to

play a little bit of what you said about your daughter and how you taught her to love iran in spite of everything that has happened. let's watch. >> [speaking non-english] >> what is so interesting to me -- eally resonated with me as an iranian american. i think so many people live in the space of loving the country that they are from culturally but also in ways despising it. it doesn't offer what they need. it seems to me that that is exactly what is going on. you taught your daughter to love your country. that country was of the country that killed your wife and daughter at the end. >> i can say that that country

's my homeland. i still love it. i don't blame the country for it. i blame the regime. i blame the government who runs that. >> in my opinion, the people of iran, they have been very, very sympathetic to us the whole three years, the first three days. they went to the street and they chanted against the islamic regime. even now, justice is not just for -- ps 752 his part of the movement and this revolution that is happening. this is the chain of the crimes that they have committed. those are for the three years. i think the people of iran what to seek justice in this fight that they have. >> what is the takeaway that you want people to hear from this documentary as they are watching it? >> well, i think the last

sentence spoken in the film that i will never give up, i think that is key. that is what inspired me to document this and to show the world. at the very beginning, we have this conversation going back to -- we have that but it's never going to happen. true justice is the fight to make sure it's not forgotten, the memories of the families are not forgotten, the truth is revealed. the real-y -- for me in both the aesthetics and conveying the sense of immediacy of this unfolding story, they are fighting not only out of self interest but they are fighting for a bigger cause which is ultimately the cause of the iranian people. >> babak and hamed are going to stick with me. we're talking about justice. we're going to talk about what justice looks like in light of

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serving every address in america. the united states postal service. all right, everyone. as we approach three months of these widespread protests in iran following the death of mahsa amini, we are reminded of similar protests back in 2020 when ukrainian flight ps 752 was shot down by iranian missiles shortly after taking off from tehran on january 8th. 176 people were on board. they were all killed. iran denied that it was one of their missiles at all. back with me now are babak payami and hamed esmaeilion, director and subject of the film 752 is not a number. amidst these widespread protests, i want to speak about the politics surrounding them. talk to me about how you have emerged as this voice, it

seems. you have expanded beyond the conversation of what happened to your wife and daughter to speak more about the ongoing protests in iran. why is that? what drives you? >> as i said, we see each other -- we see the ps 752 as a link in the chain of their crimes. after they down the plane, they did not stop committing crimes. they killed a wrestling champion. they killed a reporter. there was a crack down in the south of iran. when they killed maasai meaning, we could not stay silent. we saw that people -- the young generation in iran, the women as leaders of this revolution are in the streets and they are fighting with a regime. the only thing that we could do was to echo their voices to the politicians in the western countries and to the media.

we try to do our duty to echo the voice. >> i want to play a little bit of you at a rally. i believe it was in canada a couple of months ago. this was surrounding the protests which were happening outside of iran. >> listen and hear the rumblings of revolution in iran. this is the will of the iranian people. it will come to fruition. iranian people can never forgave the supporters and appeasers of their oppressors. the iranian people will bring to justice the murderers of their children. the iranian people will never forget nor shall they ever forgive. >> [applause] >> [speaking non-english] >> of course, everyone knows that check by now. women, life, freedom. did you expect hamed the activist to emerge from this documentary from what he has

been there over the last couple of years, seeing this progression that he has gone through and searching for justice on behalf of his wife and daughter? >> you can imagine once we set out to make the film, there was my personal attachment with hamed and the sense of kinship that we have. there was also to tell the story i had to identify who best would be the example to tell the bigger story. hamed's background along with the chemistry that we had together, i felt that i couldn't for the life of me imagine that he would become a world figure. i wanted to make sure that the world will not forget about him and the story. how history unfolds, sometimes sinema and history and reality sort of converge in amazing ways. what has happened for the families, the fight for justice that hamed and the families have relentlessly maintained

over the last few years against all odds was a perfect example and an inspiration for what is happening on a much broader scale inside iran. >> i was emotional watching some of that clip on youtube earlier today. i realized what you had been through to get there. you were only standing there because you lost your wife and daughter. hadn't i happened, you would not be standing there. so many people were there following, listening to you. when you look at what is happening inside of iran, what do you make of it? what does the global community -- you had some masks at that very rally. what does the global community need to do? >> we have had several demands. i think this is what the iranian people want. we hear from iran that, for example, they want the western countries to stop any negotiations with the islamic republic of iran. at the middle of this chaos, at the middle of this revolution, when they hang an innocent man

after 73 days and they hand him -- they had him three days ago. these 500 people that got killed by the islamic regime. we demand that these western countries, they expel the ambassadors of the iranian regime across the board. we want them to act against the iranian and islamic republic asians and oligarchs that are in western countries through the same thing that you did to the russian oligarchs. i mean, when people are getting killed in iran and the negotiations had no result for western countries, why are they continuing to negotiate with the islamic public at around? this is a big question out there. no one answers this question. >> what else needs to happen? >> the iranian people, they usually don't ask western

countries to interfere in their country. this is a proud nation. they can do things that are a very effective to help this revolution move forward. the islamic republic of iran is a safer place to do it. >> the film is up for oscar contention, babak, so congratulations on that. it is an incredible film. i know that, hamed, there's a court case happening right now in iran. do you have any expectations of justice coming out of the? >> no, no way. all of a sudden, out of the blue, they have sent invitation letters to the families yesterday that they are going to hold the court on this thursday, the 15th of december. in the absence of the concrete outcome for affected countries, the islamic republic is moving the narrative forward. we expect this country to come forward and take them to an international forum. at the same time, the islamic

republic tries to close the case in a sham trial. we need condemnation from the free world. we need reaction. we know that the families of iran, they won't be silent against this kind of sham trial. >> do you expect iran, babak, to go back to anything like it was three months ago? >> no. i think this is historic, the leadership of the iranian women handy iranian youth is inspiring to the world. i don't think that this is going to fizzle out as some may say. the iranian people have had it with this regime. i think the international community has to understand using ukraine and russia as an example, as a wake up call, that it's going to blow up in our face if we don't stand on the right side of history. that is what i have been trying to portray in this documentary about the struggles that the individual must go through and what justice means and diplomacy is not just about

negotiation. it is a multidimensional endeavor that human rights and justice and democratic values play as important of a role in the process as negotiations out of its expediency. i hope that ukraine and russia will be a good example for the world to understand how to deal with iran and the islamic public of iran and its oligarchs. >> hamed esmaeilion, thank you so much. babak payami, thank you as well. congratulations for your film being up for oscar nominations the documentary is called 752 is not a number. if you are in toronto, you can check it out right now. the film will be widely available on itunes on january 7th. my best to both of you. >> thank you. >> we will be are back. ou >> thank you >> we will be are back >> we will be are back put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when uc got unpredictable,... i got rapid symptom relief with rinvoq. check. when uc held me back... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq.

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when i first started golo and taking release, my cravings, they went away. and i was so surprised. you feel that your body is working and functioning the way it should be and you feel energized. golo has improved my life in so many ways. i'm able to stand and actually make dinner. i'm able to clean my house. i'm able to do just simple tasks that a lot of people call simple, but when you're extremely heavy they're not so simple. golo is real and when you take release in one word, how would you and follow the plan, it works. describe this new -- that system? >> predatory. >> why? >> because of the conditioning students face their entire lives that you must go to college in order to be successful. people are willing to pay whatever it takes to go to college. i'm convinced that the system was rigged to create the very

crisis we are in today. >> you're watching a clip from the new documentary airing tonight on msnbc. it is called -- takes a deep dive into the stations nations -- joins me now. thanks for joining us on this, blake. we appreciate it. i think there is this kind of misnomer about student debt where they think these are adults making bad decisions when in fact these are teenagers. these are young people who are just trying to get a leg up, right? go to college. and go to college, going to college is very expensive in this country. talk us through why eliminating student debt is good for everybody. >> listen, i think you hit the nail on the head right there. you tell people in this country young people, you say work hard, do the right thing, go to school, better yourself, right? and then they do that and many of them are handed these

enormous loan papers that say things like compounding interests, terms you don't teach 17 year olds in this country. they are told by gown guidance counselors and others you do this and you will get a great job when you graduate. the problem is they end up saddled with in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and that does not just hurt them, that hurts as, like you say. money they could be spending instead toward the economy it is now just that video will never pay back. that money could go towards shopping. if one person in the movie says, my couch is ripped up but i can't afford to get anyone because of my student loans. that local furniture company, when my sink isn't working, i can call the plumber, that hurts the plumber. that's money that should be going back into the economy. >> it's also rent. it could pay rent, buy food. buy food at the grocery store, especially now, with prices the way they are. can we talk about bankruptcy? when you talk about bank and bad decisions, you could

declare bankruptcy when it becomes -- when it comes to family, excessive shopping, and then you cannot declare bankruptcy with student loans. >> this is unbelievable. we talked about this in the film. there were two lines, two lines in a 1988 bill about 300 pages long. these two lines were snuck in at the last second that said you cannot discharge student debt and bankruptcy with very small -- and we went to reach out to the politician that put that in there to say, you know, 25 years later, do you still think this is a good idea and this is what really got me. no one would come up to it. no one put their name to it. we didn't even know who to talk to about it. the movie became a who done it. we spent years trying to track down who was responsible for this. we do find them and confront them and i think if people tune in tonight they will be really surprised by what they see. it's really stunning stuff. >> what's your biggest take away from this film as you travel the country talking to

folks? >> i just think that, you know i worked in politics for a while, in journalism for a while, i've never seen where an issue where there is such a really horrible impact on so many people. and it's people in power, policy makers, the media and so forth, people getting crushed by this and it's not just young people. it's also people who are older. there are people who should be getting social security that are still paying down student loans. they get the social security garnished, your wages garnished, your professional licenses removed. this is crushing so many people in this country. 45 million people have student debt in america. a total of almost two trillion dollars. if this doesn't affect you, it definitely affects someone you know. >> thanks, we thank you again. you can watch blake's film lone wolf's right here on msnbc and streaming on peacock tonight at ten p m eastern. finally, a muscles opener was all about the christmas season. a new musical number celebrating a time to forget about all the events in the world that are stressing us out. >> elon.

why does he own all the stuff? why does he have to run tesla and twitter? was outer space not enough? >> and hitler. since when did hitler come back? did we basically all agree years ago hitler should never come back? >> why are his new fans black? >> christmas. let's walk it all out for christmas. >> that wraps up for me everybody. i am yasmin this even, i will be back on the chair two p eastern. next saturday. simone starts right now. >> greetings, everyone. you are watching simone. it is decision day for the january six committee. what we are learning about their meeting this afternoon to decide who should be on the list of criminal