published its final report, which is expected to focus on the central role that donald trump played in the insurrection. the committee and its investigation has been a thorn in the twice in peach insurrectionist president side for most of the past 18 months as it publicly presented his findings. while the commission will be dissolved by years and, there are a number of other investigation for the disgraced ex president to worry about. let's start right here in new york, where donald trump's businesses have been under scrutiny in two separate investigations over the past two years. two days ago, the trump organization was convicted on 17 counts of criminal tax fraud, stemming from the company's practice of giving luxurious -- and paying no taxes on those benefits. then district attorney cyrus fan junior on the left of the screen. he decided not to run for reelection, he was succeeded by alvin bragg, who brought this

case to trial against the trump organization this fall. an important figure here is the trump organization's former chief financial officer, allen weissenberg. who was indicted on tax fraud charges last year. his case appears to be heading to trial. he reached a plea deal with prosecutors in august, which required him to give crucial testimony in back case against the trump organization. even though a conviction was reached in this case, it does not really affect donald trump, personally. rags cases against the trump organization, not against trump, the individual. sentencing is scheduled for january 13th. it is expected that the trump organization will be made to pay a financial penalty. because it is not a publicly traded company, the maximum penalty it faces one point $6 million. which is a drop in the bucket for the trumps. the other new york case could have other damaging consequences. in september, the new york state attorney general, letitia james, filed a civil lawsuit against donald trump, his three oldest children, don junior,

ivanka, and eric, and the trump organization. accusing them of fraud. deceiving lenders and insurers by routinely overwhelming their assets. james has been investigating the trump organization since back in 2019. she also deposed donald trump this summer during which he pled the fifth more than 400 times. she's seeking harsh penalties for the trumps, including seeking all four of them from running a business in new york state every jurgen. she also wants to outsource the trumps from their company with an independent monitor to monitor the company. she also wants to bear them from real estate for five years. let's go to georgia, district attorney stefani willis is conducting a grand jury investigation related to the effort to interfere and overturn the results of the 2020 election in georgia. willis began the investigation about two years ago, shortly after donald trump's infamous phone call the georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger. during that call, trump

implored raffensperger to find the 11,780 votes that he needed to win the state. witnesses investigation is also looking into the fake elector scheme in that state. that has made trump's personal attorney, rudy giuliani, a target of that vest again. paso awesomely john eastman and the pro trump republicans who served as a fickle actors. the grand jury in georgia has pursued the testimony of other key trump allies, like the -- senator lindsey graham, mark meadows, and former national adviser mark flynn. all of whom were ordered to participate in the investigation. it is unclear where exactly down trump fits into this case, but we will find that out soon. the grandeur is winding down its investigation. it is already began running its final report. which will bring us one step closer to finding out what charges finding willis might persevere. of course there is a house committee investigating the january 6th in direction, which states away from filing its own final report. days from now, the group will

hold its final hearing when it is expected to announce its decision on like to slated recommendation and criminal referrals. according to msnbc sources, the committee has not made any final decisions yet. they are actively considering recommending three criminal charges against a trump. one for conspiracy to defraud the government. one from obstruction of a official proceeding in congress. a third for inciting an insurrection. the january six committee is just an investigative group. whatever referrals they decide to issue hold no legal weight. ultimately the decision and the power to make indictments arrests in the department of justice, which is conducting its own separate, and parallel, investigation into the investigation. the attorney, merrick garland, has previously called that investigation the widest ranging investigation in the department's history. being led by special counsel, jack smith. smith is also involved of the criminal investigation into trump's improper handling of classified government documents.

the government, by the way, you'll recall, spent months trying to retrieve records from trump before the fbi conducted search mar-a-lago to discover dozens of documents -- in its search warrant, the espionage warrant, obstruction, and concealing a destroying government documents as the basic fourth of instigations. these, all of, these are the main investigations that we are going to continue to keep our eyes on. joining me now is andrew weissmann, the former chief of the criminal fraud section of the department of justice, and a former fbi general counsel. he was one of the senior prosecutors on the mueller investigation. he is currently a professor at nyu law school and an msnbc legal analyst. he is the author of the book, where law ends. inside the mall investigation. good morning to you, thank you for being with us. >> nice to be here. >> let's start with the january 6th, the things we are expecting in the next 18 hours. 24 hours. whatever the case may be. 18 hourswhat happens there? and as we pointed out, it doesn't hold legal weight.

the department of justice gets criminal referrals all of the time, many of which they entirely ignore. obviously this one is different. >> yes. one thing i would take issue with is, it doesn't happen all the time. it is fairly rare to get a criminal referral from the -- to the department of justice from congress. i received them when i worked on the enron case, when i worked with special counsel investigations. it is a pretty rare thing. you do take it seriously. -- here, of course, the department of justice is largely looking into this already. although we do not know exactly what will be referred. one of the things that i will be keeping my eye on is, whether there are referrals other than donald trump. mark meadows, other people who may have lied or obstructed justice in some way in

congress. there are still some unknowns here that could be very interesting to the department of justice in terms of other people to investigate, other potential leads, other potential corroborating witnesses. >> what i meant was criminal referrals from congress a rare, but criminal referrals to the permit of justice in a rare? >> that's true. i think it is still pretty rare to happen. to see a criminal referral. it doesn't mean -- your point though is absolutely correct. at the end of the day, it is still the department of justice that makes the ultimate decision. you can get a referral from congress, or some other body, if it has no merit than you don't proceed. still, when you get that you do take it quite seriously. you take quite a good look. more than if you just got some

crank letter from someone in the public who doesn't seem like they have any merit at all. >> let's talk about the things that we think the january six committee may refer to the department of justice. the insurrection one it's interesting to some people because they read it -- and especially if you read the 14th amendment of the constitution they read that as if you are convicted of that you can't run for office. there are other parts of the constitution that say you cannot limit someone running for office. is that the important thing to be thinking of with regard to the insurrection cause or is that a red herring? >> i would say that is somewhere in between. i do you think that if there were to be a conviction for that charge there is the potential that the department could argue that you cannot run for public office. there are constitutional problems with that because when you are talking about the president there could be an

argument that congressional statute cannot trump, no ton intended, the constitution of the united states. i do think the term, red herring, is kind of right. it is just so down the road and would involve so much legal wrangling it is more important to think about what is the referral? more importantly, what is the proof that congress is going to be turning over? one of the unusual things here is not only that there will be referrals on monday but on wednesday we anticipate that congress is going to turn over, publicly, all of the evidence it has amassed in the course of the that could really be a treasure trove. both for the government and for the potential defendants in terms of sifting through the evidence. what kind of leads are there for the government. what kind of weaknesses are there that defense could

exploit? >> you use some interesting words there. leads, proof, and a treasure trove. none of which constitute actual, usable, workable evidence that the justice department could take from the committee. but they would know who to interview, where to look, and they could figure out where there may be weaknesses. the january 6th investigation stand it will be different than what a department of justice charge would look like. >> absolutely the rules of evidence do not apply in the congressional investigation. the department of justice has to think about, how could you prove something a trial. what would witnesses be able to say through direct evidence about the former president, mark meadows, or whoever it is they are thinking of charging. on the defense side, one of the things i think if i were donald trump's lawyers or any of his allies is i would be looking for any inconsistencies. are there any false statements

that were made by potential government witnesses. for instance, cassidy hutchinson gave quite compelling testimony. i am confident that both the government and the defense are gonna be looking weather to see during the course of four full transcripts if there is anything inconsistent i could be used to discredit her, or to bolster what she has to say. , or tpeople are going to be log at this very, very, closely on both sides. >> jack smith, special counsel, this is something interesting, he is also now also looking into what donald trump did in georgia with the phone call to brad raffensperger. you point out, i think many people have been wondering, very interesting to see that that is being pursued. why is that different in the investigation? if you believe there was an effort to overturn the election, that would've been central to wear. you wouldn't you think it's important to jack smith is now considering that part of his investigation? >> absolutely!

one of the great things about the january 6th committee is they really pulled back then lands so that people thought about what was going on, not just on january 6th, but how that was a combination of a series of efforts by the former president to prevent the direct results of the election from occurring. perhaps the potential insurrection, seditious conspiracy, charges. when you look at it that way, the idea that he would separate out and not include an investigation into what happened in georgia with the fake electors scheme. the efforts to interfere with the department of justice investigation. pressuring mike pence. all of these different aspects of the scheme or part of the story that you would want to tell a jury if you are the government prosecutors. it never made sense to me that the fani willis piece of this was something that would be solely looked at by the state,

when it is an integral piece of the federal story, as well. i think it is pretty clear the jack smith would be the new subpoenas he issued is looking at it that way. looking at it holistically, in the way that they're in or a sixth rated, as well. >> we will be getting a lot of information. great to have a primer from you about this. the next few days is going to be busy for those of us looking to see what the next steps are. andrea, good to see you. as always. andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and an msnbc legal analyst. still to come, the incoming chair of the health labor pension committee the senator from vermont, bernie sanders, we will discuss what coming up -- how he plans to build bipartisan bridges, if he does. an important -- antisemitic rhetoric creeping its way into the public discourse. and while some forms of antisemitism seem to be taken less seriously. eriously

as americans, there's one thing we can all agree on. the promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online

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the show, you know that this year we took on any project. a project that is near and dear to my heart. we started the velshi banned book club, because the freedom to read and write as biblicist should be a human right. the surge of book banning in schools and libraries across the nation is a dangerous step towards authoritarianism. over the past year we have future books about lgbtq issues, race, and identity. we have interviewed authors and tackled tough topics like mental, sexual assault, and grief. we read the classics, modern literature, and graphic novel. as we turn the pages of children's books and young about titles. all of the books we read together this year are unique in their own science. they share one commonality, they have all faced bands or challenges, typically orchestrated by bad faith actors. on saturday, ten a.m., christmas eve, we are looking back at the best of the velshi banned book club, including some extended interviews that were not part of our original broadcast. tune in to hear from some your favorite authors including george m. johnson, jody peco,

margaret atwood, and many more. that is a full hour of the velshi banned book club next saturday starting at 10 am eastern. i will see there. ll see there what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with the tools and expertise you need to do incredible things. because we believe there's an innovator in all of us. [ melissa ] you hear about cancer. i just was afraid that i would lose my son. you think, why us? you know, why me? why my child?

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sanders, has led many crusades in his long political career, especially when it comes to health care and workers rights. fittingly, in the incoming congress, senator sanders is set to chair the prestigious health, education, labor, and pensions committee. it is known as the help committee. the assignment has gone and reaction from both sides of the aisle, another member of the committee, republican mitt romney, telling political, quote, heaven help us. wow democrat tim kaine said, quote, it is going to be interesting. joining me now is bernie sanders author of the upcoming book, it is okay to be angry about capitalism. he joins us by phone. we are having some technical difficulties on our side, senator. we apologize for that. good to have you back on the

show. >> good to be with you, ali. >> let's talk about this, one of the strong reaction, do you think to you're taking over the health committee? the health committee falls right into your bailiwick. >> i am very excited about the chairmanship of that committee. i clearly have a twofold approach. number one, we have to stay focused on the dysfunctionality of our health care system, our prescription drug system. you and i have discussed this, i know, in the past. the united states today we are spending twice as much, per capita, on health care than any other nation. 1300 dollars per person. 85 million people uninsured or under insured. 60,000 people a year die because they do not get to a doctor when they should because they don't have insurance, or they are under insured. meanwhile, we don't have enough doctors. that situation is getting worse. we have a major nursing crisis. we don't have enough --

in the midst of a major mental health epidemic we do certainly do not have enough mental health counselors. we have a dysfunctional system designed to make insurance companies very, very, wealthy. they are doing great. to make the pharmaceutical industry, very wealthy. they are doing great. our job now is to start focusing on those issues, to have the courage to take on the drug companies, the insurance companies. to do what every other major country on the country does -- guaranteeing health care for all people as a human right. >> you are right, you and i have talked about this an awful lot. i wish we could move the needle in these things. you told politico the other day that i will be walking a tightrope. i want to work with republicans on issues we can make progress. in other areas, they are not going to support me. i'm not going to give up on those issues. tell me how that math works? how do you make that progress. you are someone who ran for president with those kinds of issues as the basis for your

candidacy. how do you make progress as the chair of the committee in a recalcitrant congress? >> even the power of the insurance company, given the power of the pharmaceutical companies, given the conservative nature of the power of money in congress, we will not be able to in the next two years to bring medicare forward. this is where, i think, we can reach some common agreements with republicans. for example, whether you are a republican or democrat you know, the people know, that there is something profoundly wrong when in our country we pay ten times more for the same exact prescription drug sold in canada, mexico, or elsewhere. there was a poll that came out recently, republicans the number one issue of concern is the high cost of prescription drugs. can we work together to lower the cost of prescription drugs? i believe we can. i look forward to doing that. secondly, i'm not gonna be able to pass medicare for all. the power of the insurance companies is just too great right now.

too many republicans into many democrats. can we greatly expand primary health care? we have made some progress in recent years, for example, and increasing the number of community health centers all across the country. a wonderful program, 30 million americans have access to them. at least move to a position where every american, regardless of income, regardless of where you live, and walk into a doctor's office and get the primary health care that they need. can we do something on dental care? the cost of dental care is through the roof. millions and millions of people cannot of toward dental care. i want to see medicare expanded to cover dental care. hearing and vision. can we make progress on that? i can imagine -- >> we are not gonna make progress on the biggest things you want, including the universality of health care, in the next two years. what does that mean for 2024 and beyond?

are you a potential candidate for president again? >> i don't know. look, right now i am very much focused on being chairman of the health committee. i think as chairman it is important that we discuss the functionality of our current health care system, not only prescription drugs, but we are looking at labor. we haven't raised the minimum he age in 20 years. the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. you have major corporations now, starbucks, and was, on breaking the law every day making it impossible for workers to exercise their constitutional rights to form a union. to raise the minimum wage. can we do that? you're not gonna get it as high as we want. can we reach a compromise with republicans and at least get it to a reasonable level? i would hope so. can we take on starbucks and get the department to say, you know what? you cannot act illegally and deny workers the right to form unions. you have the whole educational issue. no one denies that our primary

care system in this country is absolutely broken. millions of working families cannot find decent quality childcare. on average it cost about $15,000 per child. we have workers fleeing the child care industry because the pay they receive our starvation wages. everybody knows -- one before the most seemed port and how do we strengthen childcare? regardless of income, regardless of where you live, all children able to get a decent start in their lives. >> you have been a big proponent of the fight for 15 dollar an hour minimum wages. by the way would get someone $30,000 a year for anybody who thinks this is runaway wages. we have seen in the last few years, because our low unemployment rate, that wages have organically gone up. $7.25 is the national minimum wage. we have seen higher wages in that. what is your sense of that? there seems to be a move towards higher wages that is

market driven in -- >> that's true. that is true but it's also been increases of minimum wage as a result to legislation, as well. i worked very hard a number of years ago to make sure that amazon rose their minimum wage to $15 an hour. it is now a lot higher than that. the market sources have to have a minimum wage. -- state after state, city after city, also raise the minimum wage. that has been significant. look, the bottom line here is that real inflation accounted for ways -- people to not talk about this very minute. they are today lower than they were 50 years ago in inflation adjusted for wages. you have an explosion in technology. workers in many ways are falling for their further behind. how many workers do you know her? not many. the rich are getting much richer. the middle class people are falling behind. those are some of the issues i

believe congress has got to tackle. me of thcan we saw them all in a two-year period? no. are we gonna to pay off the corporate world? yes, we will. i think we have to rally the american people and say, you know what? here is a logical idea. maybe we should have an economy in a government that works for everybody, not just millionaires. >> i wanna ask you about one thing. you had a resolution that would have ended most u.s. funding for saudi arabia, specifically in light of the war on yemen. set to be the world's biggest humanitarian disaster. now you withdrew that. tell me why? >> two reasons. number one, the biden administration was working very, very, hard against us. we did not have the votes to pass it. just before i went off to -- the resolution we got a call from the biden people wanting to talk about how we could bring peace to yemen. as you just indicated it is the

worst humanitarian situation on earth. it is a nightmare that is unspeakable for the people of that country. saudi arabia, in my view, has been absolutely disgusting government in terms of human rights. and their foreign policy. i do not want to see us -- i think we have to break off from their nepotism, their warmongering. this is an issue i will be working with the biden menstruation on. hopefully we can reach an agreement. >> senator, good to talk to you. good to join a star for the techno problems. when we're finished with this just turn north and say hello to my native land of canada. independent senator, bernie sanders, joining us this morning. following months of back and forth, of the trump immigration -- it's set to expire this. week what that means with asylum seekers from the south of the border means next on velshi.

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hundreds of thousands of migrants from seeking asylum at the southern border set to expire in days. after a d.c. court of appeals ruled against a group of 19 republican-leaning states on friday that wanted to maintain the trump era policy, known as title 42. the public health rule was implemented in march 2020 in response to the covid pandemic. since then, migrants have been turned away an estimated 2.5 million times. now, u.s. officials are bracing for a major influx as many as 10,000 people per day. unless the supreme court acts ahead of wednesdays deadline. >> the supreme court can choose to an issue and unpublished, short, unsigned ordered this week, on monday or tuesday, that would block the lifting of title 42. the supreme court also may choose not to act at this time. >> either way, the white house is stressing it will continue to fully enforce immigration laws and work to expand legal

pathways for migration, while discouraging disorderly an unsafe migrations. advocates on the ground concerned about the growing humanitarian crisis with migrant centers overwhelmed temperatures continue to drop. >> their numbers are just simply greater than the capacity to receive them and offer them hospitality while we assist them to make travel pans to move further into the u.s. where they may have family, relatives, friends. >> thank you to monica alba for that report coming up next, an important conversation on why some forms of antisemitism seem to be taken less seriously. why that might be the most dangerous kind of all. even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify. i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do. getrefunds.com has helped businesses get over a billion dollars

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discussion at the white house addressing the residency some to them. >> and there is an epidemic of hate facing our country. we are seeing a rapid rise in antisemitic rhetoric and acts. let me be clear, words matter. people are no longer saying the quiet part out loud. they're literally screaming them. >> last week, the biden ministration announced it was establishing a task force to address the increase in antisemitism in america after a bipartisan group of more than 125 lawmakers sent a letter to the president urging, quote, a unified national strategy to monitor and combat antisemitism, and quote. according to the most recent survey on hate crime about two third, six to 3% of religious hate crimes are motivated by antisemitism. last year reports of vandalism, harassment, violence targeting jewish people hit an all-time high according to data on the anti-defamation league which has been committing data on hate incidents in 1939.

the adl expects similar numbers in 2022. the record-breaking numbers are part of a consistent, steady, upswing in hate over the last six years. there was the deadly unite the right rally in charlottesville in 2016 a trio synagogue shootings in pittsburgh votes left 11 people dead. and thousands of other incidents since then in which jewish people have been targeted across the country. over the past few months, antisemitism has been pulled in the mainstream in ways we haven't seen since world war ii. yay, the rapper formerly known as kanye west has made headlines over notar since october he tweeted, he was going to death con three on jewish people. his consistency remove antisemitic remarks led to the rapper saying he loves hitler on the conspiracy theorists, alec joneses, talk show. that same week ye defended hitler and told jewish people they should, quote, move on from the holocaust and forgive hitler in an interview with the founder of the proud boys,

gavin mcguinness. that is just one of the emmy many anti-semitic things he said that month. donald trump, who has his own long rap sheet of antisemitic rhetoric had a sit-down dinner with the rapper formerly known as kanye west and the prominent white supremacist -- kyrie irving posted a link to a movie that promotes antisemitic insurgencies and denies that the holocaust ever happen. over the past few months, the anti jewish rhetoric from these highly influential people has materialized into actual anti jewish action. no one seems to be able to make a correlation of causation argument here. because ye and his views have been reference from into jewish hate crime defenders. a few days after want to yeas anti -- a huge banner was law, -- quote, kanye was right about the jews. promoting an anti jewish group calling the growing an anti-defense the. just this week, an elderly man

with brutally attacked right here in central park in new york by a man who shouted antisemitic slurs along with kanye, 2024. a reference to kanye's presidential expiration. a couple months ago on the show we talked about the term, stochastic terrorism. it is a concept through which a public demonization of a group or an individual, violence against that group or individual becomes statistically probable. at the time we talked about stochastic terrorism as a relates to political violence. but it applies here to. some people may find it easy to discount the things that ye says because he is just a rapper and provocateur. carrie irving is just a basketball tent. well, nick fuentes is just a white supremacist. donald trump is just the unhinged former president of the bandage tapes. it's almost as if they're celebrity and constant level of bombast makes them less harmful but these people have sway. they have millions of followers who take what they say to her. it might just three words right now, offensive rhetoric.

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josh jacobs, ceo of a robot a call for human rights. in rabbi michael knopf, the cofounder of richmond jews for justice and the rabbi at the temple bethel in richmond, virginia.

good morning to both of. you thank you for being with us. rabbi jacobs, welcome back to the show. both of you are known for being able to take social and political current issues and make them relevant to your congregates. which is why i wanted to talk to you about this. it becomes really clear after a tree of life shooting, or after charlottesville, the whole country comes together and says, this is absolutely wrong. things have been happening in the last few months that seem wrong but get discounted. they don't seem that serious. yet, as i was mentioning, they were said by people who influence millions of millions of other people. how do you treat this? how do you treat it, how do you talk to your congregates about it? how do you convince americans they have to fight this the same way they fight antisemitism that looks ugly in violent? >> first of all, thank you for having us both on. the first thing to know is people don't really understand antisemitism, in general, in america. you cannot fight antisemitism or any other bigotry unless you understand it.

that's why trump, who represents -- across the u.s. and canada is putting a lot of resources into putting training in antisemitism both inside and outside of the jewish community antisemitism -- very simply, is the hatred of and prejudice of jews as jews. it is a hatred that goes back thousands of years. it is manifested in different ways in different places. it is including restrictions on where jews can live, what kind of jobs cheese can have. and many of the places where jews have lived, it has led to forced expulsions, or conversions. or violence even to the point of genocide. contemporary america has been one of the most comfortable places for jews in all of our history. that is part of the reason why many people in america are surprised when they hear this antisemitic rhetoric. it is maybe not something that many of us are used to. for jews, seeped in the thousand-year history, it is all very familiar.

when we hear violent rhetoric, when we hear conspiracy theories circulating, certainly when we see the uptick in violent actions, we are terrified because we understand the long history of this kind of prejudice and the places where it can lead. >> rabbi knopf, how do you deal with this? you have a lot of young congregates. how do you deal with the fact that we do give celebrity a pass in america, even if you don't like the particular celebrity, it seems different, right? you can write people off because of their celebrity or you could not say it's at dangerous. this is people as the second gentleman said, screaming the quiet part out loud. what is your take? >> yeah, there is clearly a correlation between this rhetoric that we are hearing and actions. like you said, these celebrities have an incredible platform. tremendous reach! millions upon millions of followers. people listen to their words. whether they take them seriously, or not, as you said

they created permission structure for that sentiment to be out there in the world. i often tell my congregants that -- nature abhors a vacuum, as aristotle said. antisemitism loves one. i think we see that here. wherever there is empty space, wherever there is a void and we have rhetoric entering into philippe when it is not contested it festers and it grows. that means, i think, but this rhetoric has to be countered. it has to be denounced whenever it emerges. that particularly refers to other celebrities with influence and reach. also with politicians who have influence and power. they should be countering the rhetoric and these narratives. it also means there is work that we all have to do to make sure there is no vacuum in which antisemitism can flourish. that means working for a more

just society. that means standing up for jews who are targeted and threatened, even with rhetoric. -- that means that also former, rising in tandem which also rise in bigotry xenophobia, racism, islamophobia, we are seeing all of this happened, as well. >> both of you are involved in that both of you are people who decided that fighting injustice means fighting all injustice, which makes you very helpful voices in this conversation. rabbi jacob, it is kind of unfair to invite to rabbis on in how can we fight antisemitism? it doesn't fall on you, the problem is still generally speaking not within your community. as we said, we want to inform the tuition on jewish community and antisemitism, it is other people's work, right? not to be antisemitic? >> well, it is true that we all have to fight bigotry. it is important for white

people, for example, to fight racism and four men to fight sexism, et cetera segura. it took black people pointing out racism and sexism for people who are not in those communities to start to find it yes, absolutely the jewish community don't eat allies. we need allies who will call out antisemitism whenever they see it. unfortunately, in this moment, it does fall on the jewish community to explain antisemitism to explain about it because, as i said, it is a prejudice that is not well understood in this country. i wanted to say something to reinforce this idea that words do matter. there is a favorite line in proverb that says -- it is kind of the opposite of sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me pretty much every kid knows is not actually true. it is an acknowledgment that violent language never just stops a violent language if you have people with millions of millions of followers on social media her tweeting out while

language there is going to be somebody, as he said, who will take the next step who assume that violent language gives them permission to carry a violent. some of what we are seeing right now -- it is important for jews and non-jews to call out violent language when we see it. not just about antisemitism but all forms of bigotry -- in a particular before what we know it will lead, unfortunately, to violent acts. >> rabbi not, for the permission structure, that is what the issue is here, right? celebrities do things, people do things and it's not really called out, it provides a foundation for the next team to be said. as i said, the normalization of this issue. how do you inform your congregants on how to address antisemitism. and particularly the normalization of it. we don't have -- particularly with a synagogue

shooting, charlottesville, we have people who come out and say this is entirely unacceptable. we have not had the same thing happened with some of the things that have happened over the past few months. >> that is exactly right, people forget that the holocaust did not begin with the systematic murder 6 million jews. it began with hateful rhetoric. and the normalization of that rhetoric. the average person picked up on and ran with. it began with attacks on jewish individuals, businesses, and communities. they were perpetrated largely by citizens of the german public with permission given by the rhetoric that was on the rise. i think we do need to acknowledge that, as rabbi jacobs was saying, there is a clear connection between this language and attacks on jews that we ought not wait around for a charlottesville or a

pittsburgh, god forbid, to address these issues. i think relatives is also write that antisemitism is not very well understood. it requires being called au because not everyone is fully aware of what it looks like they have thing i will say is we cannot fix what we cannot face. within the jewish community and beyond there is a propensity to dismiss anti semitic rhetoric. to not terrell -- to try to not draw too much attention to it. to avoid talking about where it is actually coming from that is really dangerous. not only that it is coming from celebrities but celebrities that are endorsed by, in relationship with, incredibly

powerful figures. the former president refused to distance himself from that ideology he seemed to welcome it and embrace it. those who are their political allies are not doing, i think, a strong enough job of actually condemning and distancing themselves from those personalities and that rhetoric. we cannot fix what we cannot face. >> well said. thank you to both. you true soldiers in the battle for social justice. happy hanukkah. today is the first night of hanukkah. rabbi josh jacobs, ceo of t'ruah -- michael knobs is the rabbi at beth israel and the cofounder of richmond you prejudge. is that other for, me thank you for watching velshi stay right where you're on the sunday show with jonathan capehart begins right now. sunday sand game. the january six committee prepares for its final public