drive entirely but may be more difficult to get and slower. the ap's darlene superville, thank you so much for joining us this morning. happy holidays. it's a big day, of course the january 6th committee meeting for the final time, having their last public hearing later today. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. a jam packaged "morning joe" starts right now. >> semiretired maniac has launched various trading cards, cowboy, superhero, and most unbelievable of all, guy who didn't dodge the draft. i'm honestly relieved that he's wearing an american military uniform. >> good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, december 19th, there is a lot happening today starting on capitol hill as the

january 6th committee prepares to refer donald trump to the justice department for criminal prosecution. we'll have the exclusive new reporting on the exact charges the committee wants pursues. it is just part of what is shaping up to be a week of challenges for the ex-president as "the new york times" reports after more than five years of dramatic headlines about controversies, scandals and potential crimes surrounding former president donald j. trump, the coming week will be among the most consequential. we'll break down how the coming days will bring forward an avalanche of issues for him to face. plus, developing now is elon musk on the verge of stepping down as ceo of twitter. he launched an online poll asking that very question and pledged to abide by the results. with us we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, and the president of the

council on foreign relations, richard haass, and u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay is with us this morning as well. what a week ahead for the former president. i know there are other things going on as well. >> it's an incredible week. speaking of incredible. katty kay got her wish yesterday. >> yes, she did. >> the french, she called them the surrender monkeys, i'm deeply offended by that. the french lost yesterday. i don't know if you can even say lost, though, katty. that was without a doubt, and i think everybody agrees, the most extraordinary world cup final anybody's ever seen. i must say, it's probably the best football game i have ever seen played yesterday. messi and mbappe just two, there are no words. just two extraordinary talents.

they are the best of the best. >> i got so nervous at points during the game, i had to keep going into the kitchen to make a cup of tea. because i could not handle the stress and the pressure and the excitement. i think you're right, i was watching with a bunch of my kids' friend, all soccer nuts who have watched every single world cup game, many of them have been to them, and they said it was the most amazingly exciting game of football that they had ever seen. we expected great things from messi and mbappe. in the game against england, mbappe didn't show up very much. in this game, what is extraordinary about the french, they don't go for possession. argentinians had possession the whole time, and then just score when they need to. they don't need to go for possession because when they need to score, they do, but they were playing catch up. i think all the way through the game, argentina was slightly

ahead, and it was the french playing catch up. i think the result was fair. i don't know what you think, joe, but i do think the result reflected who the best team was on that day. >> argentina dominated the match for the first 80 minutes, just like they did against the dutch last week, and then, just extraordinary comeback by the dutch last week. extraordinary comeback by the french yesterday. and jonathan lemire, once again, you had a goal keeper who just plain out of his mind for argentina who seemed to guess every penalty kick. i will say, what's so extraordinary about mbappe, he guessed right on mbappe twice it didn't matter. he actually got his hands on the ball twice. next level stuff from mbappe, and i must say, i was cheering for the french because it was don who converted me to english football in 2006, but, jonathan

lemire, my god, you couldn't help but love this argentina team, the way they moved the ball up and down the field, and actually, thought they were going to come back about five times in extra time. >> argentina had this game won twice, and france came back both times. that 2-0 deficit, late in the regulation, and then of course after messi scores in the extra time, looks like they're going to win 3-2. mbappe would not be denied. the two best players in the world. and on the big stage, they both were at their best. hat trick from mbappe, two goals from messi, both convert their pks afterwards. they just played so well and this game was so tense and so extraordinary. my house was rooting for argentina. my two boys are diminutive soccer plays, shall we say. they identify with messi.

the game was so tense. we kept getting up and walking around. macron started the game in full suit. by the end, his jacket is gone, sleeves are rolled up. macron was just living through this game, and i will say, mbappe is wonderful, but a perfect career capstone for messi, finally getting the world cup title that eluded him. >> unbelievable. and what a goal there. unfortunately, it was a shot on open goal near the end, missed the opportunity to put it away, and actually, by the way, a perfect penalty kick there. earlier, right before the pent kicks, he had a chance to put it away, and unfortunately chose to kick it, unfortunately for the fridge, chose it kick it straight at the goal keeper. but there is no doubt, i mean, this is how you cap off the career of one of the greatest

players of all time. hollywood really couldn't have provided a better script. couldn't have provided a better ending, and now we leave the messi era with messi ending in a way that renaldo could only dream of. and now we are at the age of mbappe. it's time to look at this and try to figure out how we can patch back together britain and france because here we have katty kay, despite the fact that the falkans happened in her lifetime 30 years ago, she's doing everything she can to cheer against mbappe's frenchman. >> the winning team's capital yesterday, the scenes in buenos

aires, were unbelievable. the last half of the overtime period was the physically fluid soccer i had seen. both teams came close to goals. the second argentine goal might have been the purest, most beautiful football goal that any of us had ever seen. >> it was. >> you would use that, the spacing, the passing, it was just fantastic. >> one extraordinary pass after another, really, five perfect passes, i think you're right, richard, the build up. we're going to take you off golf and premierly football as the analyst. you bring up a great point. those four or five passes of course with messi in the middle of it all. some of the most beautiful set up that i've seen. we have a lot of news about

former president possibly being brought up on criminal charges. >> the referrals definitely. and so many other things happening. and by the way, i mean, you read "the washington post" article on what's happening right now. >> we have that. >> it is really kind of -- >> and the final scene, the final scene in that "washington post" article where the gates sort of swinging open. it's like the final scenes from gatsby, after the mansion's been abandoned and. >> let's just start with what is shaping up to be a major day on capitol hill, regarding the january 6th insurrection and former president donald trump. in just hours, the january 6th house select committee is set to meet publicly, likely for the last time after gathering yesterday to finalize its plans to issue at least three criminal referrals for former president trump. nbc news has learned this

exclusively. now, the referrals are expected to ask the justice department to pursue at least three criminal charges against a former president, all related to the capitol riot, obstructing an official proceeding. conspiracy to defraud the government, and inciting or assisting an insurrection. it's important to note, while this is huge, the criminal referrals carry no official legal weight. it's now up to the justice department to decide whether or not to charge trump or anyone else the committee might refer: committee member and democratic congressman adam schiff of california had this to say yesterday. >> i think that the evidence is there that donald trump committed criminal offenses in connection with his efforts to overturn the election, and viewing it as a former prosecutor, i think there's sufficient evidence to charge the president.

>> so when asked for a comment, a trump campaign spokesperson shared a statement from friday attacking the committee, adding the campaign will have more to say after the referrals are made public today. nbc news has also learned the committee discussed john eastman a conservative lawyer on trump's legal team who authored a memo outlining a theory of how trump could hold on to power on january 6th, 2021. >> and he actually pushed it. of course he pushed it. and was right in the middle of the planning and the plotting and the scheming for the insurrection, but he's been declining comment through his attorney. >> he has nothing to say before. >> he had a lot to say before january 6th and on january 6th about an insurrection. >> we're going to watch what happens today. in addition, nbc news has learned the committee plans to refer several republican members of congress to the house ethics

committee for their defiance of congressional subpoenas. committee member and democratic congressman jamie raskin of maryland said in part during the meeting overheard by nbc news, the committee is now referring four members of congress for appropriate sanction with the house ethics committee for failure to comply. all of this as the january 6th committee is winding down its work before the end of the year. rushing to file its findings into a lengthy eight chapter report that is set to be released to the public this wednesday. let's bring in political investigations reporter for the guardian, hugo lowell, what else can you tell us about this? >> look, the committee has been discussing criminal referrals for several weeks now, and you know, when we reported on friday, obstruction of a criminal proceeding were among the mix of statutes being considered, i don't think that came as a surprise to anyone, but, you know, we are now

learning, and we have since heard over the weekend the committee met to discuss additional possible statutes they might want to refer, and this is stuff we have reported previously, things like seditious conspiracy, inciting an insurrection, but, you know, this tracks the entirety of the investigation. these are the statutes that the committee is referring because it has judicial backing, you know, back in march, we had that ruling from judge in california, trump and eastman likely engaged in a conspiracy to defraud the government and this was a coup in search of a legal theory. this has been the baseline for a committee, building on these rulings from federal judges, and then also with the incitement of insurrection, they're building on a ruling from justice meta in d.c. who basically said there may be scope to read into trump engaging into a conspiracy to

incite insurrection. they all come with strong backing and i think this makes sense as a committee. >> jonathan lemire, you obviously wrote the book on january 6th and the big lie. your beat here. what have you learned? what can you tell us? >> it's important to not get caught in the weeds of the charges. recognize what a precedent this has set. this is remarkable. there could be criminal referrals against a former president of the united states. we have never been here before, and certainly we know this is largely symbolic. it's going to carry a lot of weight in the public consciousness and this is something that the trump world has been concerned about for a long time that they of course blast this as a witch hunt, as biassed. they are upset with kevin mccarthy all of thee months later for not cooperating with this and putting republicans on the panel itself. this is going to be a significant move, and hugo, i wanted to ask you about the road map this could provide for the department of justice. we know that doj has got its own parallel investigation that is really ramped up in recent

months, but once we hear from the committee today, and we get that report wednesday, just the preface alone to that report totaling well over 100 pages. we're going to see a lot of detail here. should this provide guidance for the doj, inform their thinking going forward? >> i think it will to tan extent. doj has its own evidence that has acued in the 16 months that the committee has been doing their investigation. when he look at the referrals it will give us a very good idea of where prosecutors might go, where jack smith, the special council might go with potential january 6th charges. look, a lot of these committee councils are former prosecutors. they're looking at this in the way that justice would look at these charges. when you see the referrals, the idea is that each of these are buttressed by evidence and interpretations of the statutes. that was cleared in march with the judge carter's rulings and judge meta as well. in terms of a road map what you're going to see is

effectively how the justice department will be thinking, and that will give us an idea of how the justice department will move if they investigate trump. >> anything to what house select committee, tomorrow, the house ways and means committee will neat to discuss trump's tax returns after it finally obtained. that committee could release six years of tax returns publicly, and on wednesday, january 6th, the committee is expected to release that report. as "the new york times" sums up. >> taken together, this week will point a spotlight on both mr. trump's refusal to cede power and the issue that he has most acutely guarded for decades, the actual size of his personal wealth and his sources of income. >> so over the past several months, richard, i have been talking about gravity returning to not only washington, d.c., but american public life. it had seemed that actually the

rules just didn't apply to certain people. you look at what's happening in the markets and billionaires losing tens of billions of dollars who have behaved badly, and i speak not just of elon musk but also mark zuckerberg who's lost $100 billion, info wars, the lies spread about sandy hook parents, the costs of that being bankruptcy. you look at one federal court after another, ruling against donald trump's worst instincts, and now you look at this. it seems that everything is crashing down around donald trump at the same time. after six years of all of us saying, well, the rules just don't seem to apply to all people equally, here we see and we have seen -- >> they may. >> over the past several months, that gravity does seem to be returning to politics as well, where every single election denier lost. >> in some ways it's an interesting statement about our democracy. that you still have

decentralized institutions. particularly the courts and the legal system. you have the media doing what it's doing, congress is doing what it's doing, and i think it's actually been something of a good revival, when you think about all of this together, going back to the midterms, joe, going back even before that with the january 6th committee. we're not out of the woods yet. we'll see what happens, even all of this probably won't phase the 35% of republicans who support mr. trump unconditionally. all things being equal, there's a bit of resilience is the word i would use with american democracy, and i actually take some comfort from that. we'll see how this plays out. but all in all, i actually think it's a pretty robust time for us. >>. >> and katty kay, of course the famous saying, the wheels of justice grind slowly, but they grind. very applicable here.

people kept waiting, when is he going to be brought to justice for all the things he's doing. the doj is taking its time. merrick garland is taking its time. the d.a. in fulton county, taking her time. the attorney general in new york state, taking her time. they are doing this step by step, building a case against him, brick by brick. and when it hits, it hits all at once. >> yeah, nobody wants to bring a case against a former president that then doesn't lead to a conviction, right? i mean, everybody is very wary of that. they're incredible aware, particularly merrick garland of the precedent of charging a former president. they want to make sure they have not just a case that leads to an indictment and actually sticks but also that it is a big enough case to seem to justify charging a former president. there will be enormous political

implications. the 37% of republicans who still -- of the country who still sticks very much by president trump are going to be incensed by these charges, as richard was alluding to. they have to bring charges amounting to something that is serious enough, not just things they might dismiss as trivial in a witch hunt, that is serious enough to merit the effort put into this. the other thing i would add of the courts, the media and the congress doing their jobs, american voters have also done their job. and we saw that in the midterms. the arc is being restored by what american voters did, looking at election deniers, that is not the way they want the country to go. >> we talked about republicans perhaps kind of pulling away. outgoing republican senator pat toomey had this to say about donald trump's influence on the republican party and his reelection campaign rollout. >> i think his influence was waning, not as quickly as i had

hoped it would, but i think it was waning, but the election outcome from last month, i think, dramatically accelerates the waning and frankly, his unbelievably terrible rollout of his reelection, well, his election campaign is also not helping him. >> and jonathan lemire, we're going to be hearing more and more of that in the coming weeks, i'm sure. because, yes, there still is 35, 36, 37% of americans that will defend donald trump, possibly to the bitter end. but many of those are hoping he'll quietly go away so they can get behind, i don't know, ron desantis, or maybe a republican candidate that will help the republicans stop losing elections every single year. >> yeah, this is the weakst donald trump has been since the morning of january 7th within the republican party. and we know that he's come back before, but this is a particularly tough moment.

it is, this launch of the campaign, this month or so, has been punctuated by a dinner with a white supremacist, a call to terminate the constitution, his business being found guilty in the state of new york, and now we're going to see this week, with the criminal referrals, the tax returns, the increasing legal pressure, but most damaging of all is that trump is going to be held responsible. this is the first time we're seeing this. he's building held responsible by other republicans for his failures at the ballot box. you frequently go through his losing streak since 2017, 2018, but he seems to have gotten away with most of those, among other republicans. this time does feel different, and i will say, joe, open chatter among people in the republican party, including those pretty close to trump himself, wondering if his heart is really into this campaign. does he view it as an effort to try to get out of criminal trouble when that may not be successful anyway, but he has done nothing. no events, no rallies, no speeches. we had great fun poking holes at

and mocking his nft release. those trading cards, which he had billed as a major announcement, and republicans are looking, going what is he doing here, is his heart in this. is he going to find an excuse to get out of the race. that's what they're wondering, and frankly, joe, many of them, that's what they're hoping for . >> the thing is, though, what's so fascinating, mika, if you read "the washington post" article yesterday, we're going to be having ashley parker on. he's isolated, alone down there, remains angry, disconnected. it seems to be another reality. he has created this reality around him, except all of his former advisers seem to be saying that he doesn't want to hear from anybody unless they're going to sit there and tell them, yes, all day. so there are no guardrails left, but also there's nobody there to

say don't put those down. you look like a fool. >> and it's sort of kind of like a little lala land that he's created for himself, and i say that, you know n a realistic way where he has created his own reality, and nobody, nobody around him, you know, they fear, actually, telling him the truth or bringing him bad news. we'll read from the piece a little later on. it's quite colorful in terms of what has happened to his life, this sort of strange world that he's created at mar-a-lago amidst all these legal challenges including let's not forget the documents case, which is a mess there. >> we were texting back and forth yesterday during, of course, the world cup, but also texting back some of the quotes from this "washington post" column. or this "washington post" article, a lot of great reporting there that you said matches up with everything that you're hearing.

but again, a very sad scene down there that even one person said he's trying to create his own sort of imaginary oval office above the function space at mar-a-lago and somebody said what was it that looked like barbie. >> barbie's dream house. >> yeah, that was very sad. >> sad indeed, and this does jive with a lot of what i have been hearing. it's a great piece. there's a sense he has created this reality. he won the 2020 election, he can't move past that and that he wants to be affirmed by aides, those he's still talking to and people very close to him who have been in contact with him post presidency say the calls have started to fade away, that he has become more reclusive and certainly those who thought a few months ago they could be getting a job on presidential campaign. everyone has gone silent, they don't know what's happening there. trump is isolated and alone, and

republicans who are eager to move beyond 2020, his refusal to do so might be the final straw at last. >> there are a lot of people hoping they don't get the calls for the invitation for dinner because the scene has gotten so sad and pathetic there. hugo, can you tell us before you go, is there a particular investigation, a particular criminal procedure moving forward, investigation moving forward, grand jury that trump and his lawyers and people close to him are most concerned about. is it the doj, georgia, anything happening in new york, is it the documents? >> without a doubt, it's the documents case. this was the breakdown described by the legal team. 80% of the time is spent on the documents case. 15% of the time is spent on the doj, and 5% is spent on georgia. i think it reflects the peril that he knows he has with the

documents case. he was able to stymie this investigation for about three months because of the special master proceedings, right, he had to give back the classified documents after the 11th circuit ruled but he managed to string out the injunction on unclassified documents for a very long time, until last week, and if you speak to national security lawyers, they say, look, the classified documents are important, but if you're going to prosecute this case, you have to also look at the unclassified documents because they are commingled with the classified documents. now that the doj has basically custody of all of the documents that were seized from mar-a-lago, i expect the criminal investigation on the documents case to move forward swiftly, and i think the trump lawyers are as well, and this is what they're really concerned about. of course they were in federal court last week or the week before even to try and get out of a contempt of court ruling. they managed that, but only just, and they're really going to have to figure out how they're going to get around this problem that no one on the legal

team wants to attest underoath that they have returned or classified documents. >> political investigations reporter for the guardian, hugo lowell, thank you very much. a few more stories making headlines this morning, president joe biden is expected to speak to the nation this week about what he sees as his major accomplishments since taking office. white house officials say the president is expected to emphasize unity and the bipartisan nature of key legislation he has signed. they said he will also discuss hope for more cooperation between democrats and republicans in the next congress. some of those accomplishments highlights by the white house include projects funded by the bipartisan infrastructure law and a provision in the democrats inflation reduction act that caps insulin at $35 a month for medicare recipients starting in january. >> i better read this one, mika. >> yeah?

>> 36 people were hurt, 11 seriously on a flight from phoenix to hawaii, due to turbulence. >> the hawaiian airlines flight carrying 278 passengers landed around 11:00 a.m., met immediately by first responders, an unstable patch of air caught the flight by surprise near the hawaiian islands. the national weather service in honolulu said there was a weather advisory posted for potential thunderstorms at the time. >> eleven people seriously injured. katty kay, i don't know about you. >> i can't. >> but when i'm flying a lot of times, you know, they tell you, keep your seat belt on at all times. i'm like, whatever. >> no, keep your seat belt on. >> whenever i hear stories like this or people say, we were justice flying in. it dropped 10,000 feet, that's when i say, all right, maybe i'll stay buckled up the whole flight. >> i'm a buckle up the whole flight type of person.

i'm also a mask type of person on planes. i don't want to get sick before holidays. why get sick just before the holidays. that seat belt stays firmly on. >> on the masks, you're so right. we went to london for the queen's funeral, came back, got off the plane, i had covid. dealt with fatigue for a long time. a long flight overseas, as soon as i got over that. came back with an upper respiratory infection. >> he's been so sick. >> i never get sick. >> i've never seen it. >> since i got back from september 19th from london. i have been sick. covid, this massive upper respiratory infection that lasted for three or four weeks, and i guess resistance is down post covid, but i am so with you. when i'm on flights now. >> just mask up.

>> just me, nobody else has to. you can go around and breathe in people's face and do whatever. i'm wearing a mask. >> we've become germophobes. >> i'm not a germophobe, i would just rather not be sick. it's crazy. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll have the latest on the war in ukraine and how the white house hopes to continue aid for the country as republicans take control of the house in a matter of weeks. meanwhile, a republican governor stands up for science criticizing ron desantis's new campaign against covid vaccines. >> wait, wait, but he was for the vaccines. before he was against covid vaccines. he was proud of it. >> he's beyond hypocritical. >> we're here to give you a shot, and i'm so proud. >> that is a horrible airport. >> thanks, ron desantis. >> thanks, ron. >> can we get stickers and stick them all over miami. it was a chaotic weekend on

twitter. we're going to go through the controversial moves by elon musk that led him to asking users if he should continue as ceo. is twitter his playground? >> if a tree falls in the forest and i don't hear it, does it really fall down. >> just tweet yes. >> the obsession with twitter. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's one that'll really take you back. wow! what'd you get, ryan? it's customized home insurance from liberty mutual!!! what does it do, bud? it customizes our home insurance so we only pay for what we need! and what did you get, mike? i got a bike. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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sooner than we thought? twitter owner elon musk has launched a poll on the site asking users if he should step down as head of the company. he has promised to abide by the results. and they didn't really turn out in his favor with more than 17 million votes, 57.5% of users say elon should step down. the poll, which is now closed comes amid fallout over a new policy twitter attempted to introduce yesterday. the social media giant announcing and then reversing a plan to ban users from linking or promoting their pages on other social media sites. musk responded to the debacle writing quote, going forward, there will be a vote for major policy changes. my apologies, won't happen again. and seemingly in response to his poll, before the final results he tweeted, as the saying goes, be careful what you wish, as you

might get it. >> elon may be going, but he's giving us memories here at twitter that could last a lunchtime as they say. but i've got to say, richard haass, some of the people who are probably happiest about the results of the poll, if, in fact, elon abides by it are the shareholders and those who have their largest stake in tesla that are cheering for him and spacex who actually want elon musk to succeed in his business ventures. it has been disastrous. all of this has been disastrous for tesla stock. so it will be curious to see if he does leave. if he does leave, though, it's actually in his best interest. >> who's going to buy it. he was trying to raise extra

money for twitter at the value he bought it for. i wouldn't think the takers would form a double line at that price. it would be a significant discount if he were to get rid of it, yeah, there's a fundamental difference, joe, between running the companies you founded, essentially where you've made the dna and then acquiring this large social media company. this has been a mismatch since day one. if he were to get out of twitter in the long run, i think it would be good. he's not, shall we say, made for it. whatever deliberative decision making is, it is not characteristic of elon musk's, it's not a match that's sustainable. i think his investors would rather have him going back to spaceships and to tesla, that's how he made his reputation, not on twitter. >> you know, the thing is that's what he knows. it reminds me, again, and i'm sure you remember the story, you know, henry ford, again, created the modern age, created the

assembly line, created the america that we know. and of course he was brilliant at it, but the second he stepped out of that, he went up, i think to capitol hill to testify, people were shocked at how limited his knowledge was. he knew how to do one thing exceedingly well and created the modern age by doing that, but when he got out of his lane, things didn't go quite so well. jonathan lemire, it has been such a chaotic few months with elon musk. i'm sure it all looked much leader from a distance to come in and clean this place up, but you and i and other millions and millions of people that have been on twitter for a decade could tell him, it's a sewer out there. >> it's a sewer out there, and it has gotten worse since he took over. there have been studies about how the hate speech and racist rhetoric has only increased in the musk era.

was this just an effort to own the libs, be a troll, be the center of attention. he certainly is trumpesque in his need to be talked about. he grossly overpaid for twitter in the first place. will he go through the sale in the first place. it does seem like he has had a couple of attempts to get out of it since, and this move here, his poll that suggests he's going to leave comes on the heels of not just the policy that prohibited people from linking to other social media sites which caused an uproar, but after he banned a number of journalists. he claimed, because they were trying to quote doxx him because they had linked publicly found information. those bans have been reversed mostly. the policy about linking has been reversed mostly. we'll see if he abides by this poll. he certainly doesn't have to. he has put up other polls before, including bringing

donald trump back to the platform, he has abided by those results. we'll have to see what comes as the day goes on. >> again, it's every day, i'm saying just about everybody, every day you're running twitter is a day you're making enemies and if you've got something like tesla and spacex, it's going to hurt that other business and, katty kay, i've got a saying around here, you know, mika and i, we can get into music, we can do music, we can write books, we can do whatever, but at the end of the day, you guard the flag, right? guard the flag. what is the thing that pays the bill? what is the thing that's most important in your professional business, and elon musk has not been guarding the flag. in fact, he's lost 60% of his stock this year. i think the rest, he's lost 15 to 18% this year.

it's been a savage year for tesla and he hasn't guarded the flag. this is where he steps in and goes back and worries about first things first. >> if he's having to subsidize tesla because of losses on twitter, that doesn't make much sense, and also the brand damage that's being done, when you've got tesla owning liberals in california who are very proud to be owning teslas for a while saying actually, you know what, i don't want anything to do with this company anymore and i'm going to sell my tesla and buy an electric bmw or whatever, he's got a problem. you can spend years building up a reputation, and for companies in particular, you can spend years building a brand but you can lose that brand and reputation very quickly, and that seems to be what's happening to elon musk at the moment. he's going to have to rebuild the trust in tesla. the question will be, if he steps aside, what will happen to

twitter. he will own the company. presumably, he will control whoever it is that's running it operationally day-to-day. >> we're going to have john on later. he brought up a fascinating point. you have all of these people striking out against woke politics or whatever elon was striking out against, owning the libs, it's all about owning the libs. john delevolpe brought up a good point, states won by joe biden, they control 70% of america's gdp, so you hear about, you know, colin kaepernick, he supposedly creates a backlash, you have those protesting with kneeling for a while. people saying we're never going to watch the nfl again. we're never going to subsidize

mlb again. all the own the libs, at the end of the day, the vast majority of wealth are in blue states, regardless of who's winning elections, and those 70% are the ones that buy the overwhelming majority of teslas. so if people on the right decide, oh, well, you know, we're going to shut down disney world, we're going to shut down this. no, you're not. corporations are not do gooders. when you see bp saying how much they love nature. whatever, they're not do gooders, they're worried about their bottom line, right? so if coca-cola or somebody else does something that upsets the far right, you can try to own the libs. they're not doing it because they want to be loved by the libs, they want to make money, and this is what elon musk, i can't believe, he never understands.

look at the data, your teslas are buying by the libs you're trying to own. they don't want them anymore. >> what you were referring to before, you got to secure your base, and that is the base of tesla and he's fast losing the base, and again, he's not focusing on what he's good at. he doesn't just own tesla, he's on it 24/7. he's the tweeter in chief, and he's got two other businesses to run. he can't run tesla. he can't run spacex, and on twitter, you really can't run twitter if you're too busy tweeting or showing up at the world cup. it just doesn't make sense here. the only one who's probably really happy is someone who's on your show a lot, walter isaacson. writing this book is getting more interesting by the hour. >> what a book. >> it's going to be a fascinating book. >> and by the way, walter, i have showed extraordinary

discipline and not calling you asking what's going on. everybody's calling you asking what's going on. >> speaking of what's going on -- >> the important thing is he need to guard the flag. >> and he's not. >> it looks, though, i bet you this is all a set up moving towards guarding the flag. coming up, argentina's world cup victory hit home for one of the most recognizable voices in soccer. argentine american announcer, andres cantor will join us to break down yesterday's thrilling final. "morning joe" will be right back. ng final. "morning joe" will be right back symptoms of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. stand up to your symptoms with rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. it can stop further irreversible joint damage. and rinvoq can leave skin clear or almost clear in psa.

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yes. [ speaking nonenglish ]

[ speaking non-english ] >> oh, my. >> an emotional moment for broadcaster legend and native argentine, andres cantor at the end of yesterday's world cup final. i think he was supposed to keep going, but just got too emotional. >> too emotional. >> and also telemundo soccer presenter, andres cantor joins us now along with staff writer from the new republic, alex shepherd. >> such a great honor to have you with us. i'll admit what i admitted to our audience early, since it was don who converted me to the beautiful game, i was cheering for france yesterday, and yet,

as i saw the build up for the second goal, the most beautiful build up i think i have ever seen in football, and as i saw argentina fly down the field in the final minutes, i sat there and wondered, what an extraordinary team, what an extraordinary legend in messi, what an extraordinary way to end this fabled career. >> it was really a fairy tale ending to lionel messi in the world cups. he became the player that played the most games, surpassing yesterday with 26. he's surpassed in minutes played. he almost won the golden boot. he was the mvp of the tournament. you're seeing the play that you were referring to just now. that was one of the most beautiful plays, but argentina doesn't win a trophy without suffering, you know, it was the most dominant final i have ever seen for 75 minutes, and then in

two minutes, everything went south. for argentina. they had to suffer through the biggest analyst, side note from your previous segment, elon musk was here at the world cup final. >> there you go. >> so let me ask you what it meant to you personally watching that? >> you know, i always say that i would be a hypocrite if i don't say that i want argentina to win the world cup. i have been waiting 36 1/2 years for this moment. i tried to compose myself as much as i could. the man who was next to me that i was hugging was a world cup champion from 1986, argentine soccer. we came so close. argentina came so close in all the world cups, receiving this

one, except russia in 2019, i just really couldn't hold back my emotions. but yet it was very very tough. it was a roller coaster. if argentina didn't convert, france had a chance to tie, and move ahead. i had to compose myself until the very last second, until i saw the ball go in the back of the net. i just broke up. >> yeah, alex shepherd, you know, andres is so right, the first 80 minutes may have been the most boring world cup i have ever seen. argentina just absolutely dominated every part of the game. the final 40 minutes, the most exciting by far. taken all together, there's never been a world cup final like this, has there is this. >> i don't think there's been a final like this period in any sport. i can't think of anything like the last 40 minutes of that

game. completely manic. it seems like anything could happen at any point. both teams missed pretty easy chances at various points. it could have gone either way. i think argentina was the much better team overall, and yet, we were very very close to seeing france lift the trophy a second world cup in a row. >> we were saying earlier, one of the things that made the final perfect is the two super stars, messi and mbappe were at their peak of power. tell us what you thought as you watched the living legends already perform their best on the biggest stage. >> it so rarely happens where you get the best players at their best. you think of players who never actually got to lift the trophy. what we're seeing here is kylian mbappe who will be the greatest player in the world in a year or two. but he wasn't the greatest of

this tournament. lionel messi, he dominated every aspect of the game, and pop up in the strangest moments and do extraordinary things. >> andres, i think the other thing that was amazing about the argentinian team, yes, it was all about messi, you look at how d i maria played. and messi is getting towards the end of his career, an incredible way to go out. what does the future look like for the argentines? >> it's a very young team. i don't know what the future holds for argentina. there will be a before and after lionel messi. this was his fifth world cup. he came close and lifted a trophy yesterday. i don't know what will happen, and argentina's national team will play now without him. again, you know, argentina has

very exciting young players like fernandez, like alexis mac al lister. there would be a before and after messi history in argentine soccer. >> and this morning it doesn't really matter. because argentina lifted the trophy yesterday, and just to follow up on something alex said about what it means, i mean, people still, when you talk about cruyff, they still talk about the dutch coming up short in 1974. cruyff deciding not to play in 1978. just like they will talk about rinaldo's collapse. this will stay with legends.

for messi, it's an extraordinary ending. it's not the ending of cruyff, as rinaldo, it's as glor i don't say -- glorious an ending a soccer player could have. >> thank you for coming on this morning. and alex shepherd, thank you as well. new reporting from the "washington post" that tells the inside story of how former president donald trump transplanted the chaos of his white house into his post presidential life and who has come along for the ride. >> this "washington post" story, mika, just, it's really one of the most searing portraits of trump and mar-a-lago that anybody could write. >> what things look like as of now. >> great journalism by "the washington post." and as the january 6th select committee considers criminal referrals against donald trump and his allies,

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t ouour juryry aorneneys hehelpou a live look at the white house at the top of the second hour of "morning joe." the sun has yet to come up, but the news is beginning now. welcome back to "morning joe." it is december 19th. >> happy birthday, joey. >> oh, my gosh, joey. >> happy birthday, joey. >> your oldest son. >> oh, joey, happy birthday. he's on the west coast, so we'll have to do this begin at 9:00 a.m. it is december 19th. jonathan lemire and katty kay are still with us, and joining the conversation, we have msnbc contributor, mike barnicle. let's dive right in. we're going to get to today's big developments on capitol hill as the january 6th committee prepares to refer donald trump to the justice department for criminal prosecution. we'll speak with a member of

that committee. congressman adam schiff in just a moment. but first, new reporting from the "washington post" takes an inside look at how donald trump transplanted the chaos from his white house into his post presidential life. entitled how trump jetsonned restraints at mar-a-lago and prompted legal peril. it details how trump surrounded himself with people actively trying to put him in a better mood. quote, natalie harp, one of trump's employees and a former host on the pro trump cable network one america news often accompanies trump on his daily golf outings, riding the course at a golf cart equipped with a laptop and sometimes even a printer to show him uplifting news articles, online posts or other materials. on some quiet days, another aide, molly michael, who served as trump's assistant in the white house has called around to trump's network of allies across

the country, requesting they dial the former president to boost his spirits with positive affirmations. in the two years since he left office, trump has recreated the conditions of his own free wheeling white house with all of its chaos, norm floating and catering to his ego with little regard for the law. though few rules guide the life of a former president, trump has exhibited a characteristic disinterest following any of them. >> let's bring in the coauthor of that remarkable behind the scenes account of trump's post presidential life based on interviews with 23 people, senior national correspondent for "the washington post" ashley parker, and, ashley, you know, we always heard about chaos in the trump white house, but there was general kelly pushing back and fighting him. there was general mattis pushing

back and fighting him. there always seem to be people pushing back. this is an absolutely breathtaking portrait that you all have fascinating, incredible journalism where there is no pushback. no guardrails. does this help explain why he got in the trouble that he got in with the documents? >> it absolutely does, and that's something we really set out to do with this story. we have been following the documents scandal since really the very beginning, and we were trying to with this to understand how something like that could be allowed to happen, and what we found again is as you just very eloquently laid out that chaos, that free wheeling nature of the white house, as someone put it to us, who studied white house chief of staffs, that followed the president to mar-a-lago with none of the limited on steroids.

there were none of the career government officials who were occasionally there to reign in things in the white house. down in mar-a-lago, the former president was and is surrounded by junior staff, sycophants with people whose sole purpose is really to, again, boost his mood, tell him what he wants to hear, and allow him to behave however he wants. posting things on truth social without following even basic protocols. >> yeah, and you know, mika, as we read the article and were talking about it last night, the one thing that struck me so much is the fact that you have people who have worked for him for a very long time who have just said for the most part, he doesn't want anybody around him at all, nobody around him at all who will provide even the slightest push back. if you don't tell him anything other than the election was stolen from you and, yes, your

nfts are a great idea and everything is a great idea, he wants no part of it. >> and you can see that there's a -- i mean, if there was quality, but you can definitely see something changing. let's put it that way. >> the quality control of the nft is far different than trump's steaks or water or whatever. >> i think what's interesting is that with all the different legal woes that this former president has, legal challenges coming at him at 100 miles an hour, whether it's his tax returns, the documents, the january 6th committee criminal referrals to the doj, what the doj might come up with there. what's going on in georgia. you would think that main entertainment room at mar-a-lago would be filled with desks and phones and lawyers. and people working on sort of his cases.

and yet, you say there's a lot of socializing still that happens there. >> right. you might expect, as you described, a sort of legal war room down there, but that's not at all how former president trump spends his days, you know, he gets up, he makes some phone calls often to people who the sort of responsible aides wish he was not calling. people who fuel his baseless conspiracy theories about the 2020 election being stolen. he watches tv, he scans the papers. and then often he will go out and he will play 18 or 27 holes of golf. when he comes in, he'll go to the office that they, you know, painstakingly retrofitted in mar-a-lago to sort of resemble the oval, and then he spends his nights at his club, as a consummate host. he goes down, has dinner. he often orders off of a special menu. he controls the music just like

he did at his rallies. what he's not doing again is sort of buttoning up his behavior to try to deal with all of these legal challenges. >> when you were talking about the office. there was such a vivid scene in the article about how the junior staffers were panicked that it might not be as grand as the oval office, and he would get angry and someone referred to it as a barbie dream house. they said it was a sad and pathetic scene. >> that's right. he has very much tried to recreate the trappings of the presidency down at mar-a-lago. but he's a former president. as any former president will tell you, you can't recreate that. there's nothing like being president and that power you hold, but what trump has managed to recreate is the chaos, the sycophant, and the dangerous set of conditions that allows him to be unchecked. in this case, seems to have very

clearly created yet another legal headache that was not a fore gone conclusion in the form of his behavior with these documents. >> ashley, congratulations on this incredible piece of reporting, you and the others at the post, just incredible and as always, it's a full portrait of the former president, the incompetence, the lack of self-awareness, the victimization, the self-pitying, but there's always with him one nugget usually in almost any story that gets right to his lack of character. and the definition of a grifter. please tell us the story surrounding donald trump trying to get the gsa, government services administration, to pay for that office in mar-a-lago. >> yeah, thank you for mentioning that. that's a fantastic detail my colleagues unearthed, and basically, you know, you get a

little bit of a fund to set up your post presidency, and the gsa does provide some money for all post presidents to basically rent office space, and what trump tried to do was get the gsa to pay for his office space in mar-a-lago, which essentially would have meant, the gsa, the federal government sending money to trump's private club that he would ostensibly packet as profit in perpetuity for the duration of his life, and it's worth noting that, again, this is somewhat in line with behaviors he exhibited as president where he would have the secret service stay at his hotels when they could, and charge them exorbitant rates and, again, the gsa considered this request they declined and they are renting office space nearby in florida.

>> all right. "the washington post's" ashley parker, thank you very much for your reporting. we really appreciate it. >> and joining us now a member of the house select committee tasked with investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol, democratic congressman adam schiff of california. nbc news of course has exclusive details on criminal referrals today. i know you're declining to comment on the referrals, but can you talk about what it has taken to put together this final report and how much legal credibility it has or doesn't have. >> well, it has been a pain staking effort to put together the report to assimilate the evidence that we found to try to present in a comprehensive form all the different ways that donald trumps and others tried to overturn our democracy, the pressure campaigns against state officials, the pressure campaign against the vice president, the fake elector plot. there was a lot to cover and to

do so in a way that would read like a narrative, something that wasn't a manual for a carburetor. i think we succeeded. we'll wait for your determination. in terms of the impact of the referrals, we will have a vote on our report and referrals, if we do make referrals to justice department. it is the expression of congress and its belief that our democracy was attacked, that these were the people responsible, that these are potential violations of law that we think that there's sufficient evidence to make that referral. that will be what we will be deciding today, and the department will give it what weight it believes it deserves. i suspect it will give it the weight supported by the evidence that we present. >> and so obviously what one's opinion about evidence can be subjective. are there any legal benchmarks or benchmarks that you can describe that would make an act qualify for a criminal referral?

>> well, you know, if you look, for example, judge carter was litigating a case where we were trying to get certain records and found that the crime fraud exception applied and therefore he could get the records. in his opinion, it was his belief that based on the narrow subset of evidence that we presented to him that the former president and others likely broke the law, and he identified several statutes that he thought were at issue. you know, ultimately the justice department will have to determine whether there's probably cause to charge the former president or others, and they'll have to make the further determination before they bring such a charge that they think they can prevail and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. to anyone including the former president, that's what the attorney general promised to do, and i think the country will hold the justice department to that standard.

>> congressman schiff, good morning, one of the more remarkable things about the committee's work is your ability to unearth information about a day we all watched. and there has been so much reporting and investigation about already. it's been obviously several weeks since we have seen you meet publicly. even in that time, in this late hour, was there new information that you have been able to pick up, collect new witnesses, testimony, evidence, that will be part of what we hear from you today and in the final report released later this week. >> we certainly have conducted additional interviews and depositions since our last hearing. but, you know, i think that the public has already seen in those hearings, you know, the major through line here. the president's multiple efforts to overturn an election he lost, an election he knew that he had lost. the results resort to violence at the very end. we're filling in, i think, a lot of the pieces. we showed the broad strokes during the course of those hearings, and even our published report is only going to be a

small fraction of the evidence. we'll be releasing quite voluminous exhibits, including transcripts of interviews and depositions, so there will certainly be a lot of new material, but again, as we have seen, the trump presidency, and the years since, it doesn't matter how many smoking guns you present, there's always insatiable demand for new smoking guns. the president meeting with officials, going through the same litany of false claims of fraud, they knock each of them down and tell him essentially they're bs, and his answer is just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and a republican congressman. sometimes in a simple statement, you can see all you need to see. >> can i broaden it out to something hugo lowell was saying, in his conversations with the justice department and the amount of time that they are spending on what they think is being attributed to the

different legal problems that donald trump faces, and they said it was 80% on the documents from mar-a-lago. 15% on the january 6th investigation, about 5% on the case down in georgia. does that put the kind of findings of the 1/6 committee in some kind of perspective? >> obviously the charges that you will be proposing are incredibly serious, and yet the case that is most likely to get donald trump into legal problems it looks like is taking documents down to mar-a-lago. i'm just wondering how you weigh those two things. >> well, you know, as you say, our focus has been on january 6th and on the series of violations of law that took place on that day, and the run up to that day. those are the most serious potential offenses. mar-a-lago, the justice department could very well determine, well, these are easier to prove, and we'll move on those that are easier to

prove, simpler, potentially less controversial. i think that would be a mistake to say, well, we're going to simply go with what we can most easily demonstrate rather than what is most serious. if what is most serious can be proved and can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, that i don't think you can simply rely on the potential charges around mar-a-lago. so this is a decision prosecutors have to make all the time in far more routine circumstances, that is, which charges to bring where the evidence supports multiple charges, but here i think it would be a mistake if the evidence sports a charge and a potential conviction to, for some reason, decide, well, we're not going to go with those charges because there's something easier to prove. >> congressman, what are your thoughts on the entire process in the house of representatives, the legislative process, the political process, in that you're about to issue a final report on a cataclysmic event in this country that's nearly two

years old this coming january and that final report will then be until the hands of the majority of the house of representatives, the republicans who will do everything they can to oppose nearly everything in that report. what are your thoughts about that? >> there are two components of our work on the january 6th committee, the first is to expose facts to the public glare. i think we have done that in an unprecedented way. the second possibility is to bring about reforms needed to address the deficiencies that made us so vulnerable on the 6th. we will be making recommendations for those legislative reforms, but the vast majority will not be law by the end of the session. to contemplate going into a new session where people who voted to overturn the election will be essentially running the house of

representatives, you can imagine how difficult it will be to take these steps. i'm deeply concerned. we're not out of the woods, and there are simple, common sense steps to protect the country but the new majority is going to be far more interested in hunter biden's laptop or who knows what else. >> yes, yes they will. a member of the january 6th select committee, congressman adam schiff. thank you for being on this morning. we'll be watching today. >> thank you. >> all right. time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. there is growing resistance against president biden's proposed changes to the 2024 democratic presidential primary calendar. just over two weeks ago, the dnc's rule making arm approved a revamped schedule for the 2024 presidential primary. first, south carolina, followed by new hampshire and nevada on the same day. then, georgia and finally

michigan. leaving out iowa entirely. according to nbc news, members of both parties are criticizing the move. some democrats warn the changes could have catastrophic consequences for a party that has worked for decades to turn the state purpose. overseas, north korea launched two ballistic missiles, detected by the south korea military and japan. south korea reported the two missiles were fired about 50 minutes apart but gave no details on the type of weapon that was fired. japan confirmed the test. and said the missiles fell in the waters between the korean peninsula and its borders, the latest move comes just days after north korea claimed to have completed a key test in its plan to build a more powerful

intercontinental ballistic missile, one that could hit the u.s. mainland. and still ahead on "morning joe," we'll have an update on the situation at the southern border as a pandemic-related immigration restriction expires this week amid a flood of migrants crossing into the u.s. every day. plus, a major development out of iran after weeks of protests. a famous actress is arrested after she criticized extreme punishments. also ahead, a look at the biden administration's plans for building support among younger voters. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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city of brotherly love. >> oh, yeah. so beautiful. i love philadelphia. >> i think of the greatest media company on the planet. >> oh, yeah, based there. >> which coincidentally pays my salary, comcast, they're based there. what you think of the 13-1 philadelphia eagles. >> okay. >> who have an extraordinary quarterback in jalen hurt, and some wide receivers, the team that the eagles have put together. >> the eagles are probably going to lose one or two games all season. the most unstoppable play in the nfl is the jalen hurts qbc. he's got good receivers too, a.j. browne and devonta smith.

the eagles might be the one great team, and they will be the favorites going forward. >> eagles are a great team. i've got to say, the lions got to be one of the most exciting games. you know, jack and i kept saying, when they were one in four, one in five. this is a really good team, and they keep losing games. they turned around six out of seven games. very sad yesterday, tom brady had an incredible first half. they completely dominated the bengals, super bowl champs, and then everything melted down. >> yeah, that was about as bad as a quarter tom brady has had in his career. two picks, he fumbled twice. he's been okay. the bucs stink. they're still probably going to win the division because the nfc south is putrid. that was tough to watch. and also, joe, i don't know if we really have to talk about this but i feel like it's my responsibility.

i tend to gloat with my teams do well. the patriots lost in the single dumbest way. the game is tied. last play of the game, two seconds left. it's a give up run play to get to over time. the raider picks it off, and the he scores the game winning touchdown. i have never seen this on any level of football. my kids' flag football team would never do this. it is the stupidest way i have ever seen lose, and a bill belichick coach'd team did it. the sporting high of the morning of the world cup came crashing down in your truly. >> that is the dumbest thing i have seen. i have got to say, also, i have never seen a belichick team allow a guy to walk in and block

a punt the way they did in the first half. you sat there going, this looks like a high school team. i still can't figure out what the hell happened there. that's shocking. quickly, though, i want to go to mike barnicle. i'm not going to lie. when it comes to talking about baseball, it's been a grim month. the prospects the white sox might get, and this has happened time and time again, of course we lost xander who was boston red sox baseball after we lost mookie who was boston red sox baseball. we got a bit of good news yesterday, didn't we? >> listen, i don't know whether it was good news or not, joe. i mean, first of all, i'm so weary of talking about what's happened and what's not happened with the boston red sox, but before i get into that briefly, i just want to point out the

irony of what we saw in the patriots game, it's a poorly coached team by bill belichick. the idea is to run out of bounds and stop the clock. never ran out of bounds, just stopped the clock. the other thing, the guy who scored the touchdown, chandler jones, former patriot. the red sox, you mentioned philadelphia at the top of the segment. the mention of philadelphia made me wonder why didn't we keep kyle schwarber, he's with the phillies now. the red sox have had a really brutal couple of months. every player they were reported in on, and according to the reports, they were not in on. and the bottom line here, joe is with baseball the way baseball is run today by a lot of front offices, with a lot of ivy league academics, baseball stats, baseball is played on grass. not on paper. and there's a human element to baseball that is missing in some

of these negotiations that the red sox have had with players. potential players. >> and you had christian vasquez treated like garbage when they let him go. a guy who gave so much to the city of boston, so much to the red sox organization, treated like garbage when they dumped him to the astros, and then he helped the astros win the world series. he came back and told the red sox, hey, i'm interested, i would love to come back to boston. they basically told him to go to hell. he went to minnesota instead, and made a lot of money. let's say it. at some point, we've got to stop blaming hime bloom, he doesn't own the club. he doesn't pay the players. at some point, you have to ask the question, who owns the team, let's stop playing this game it's an ownership group that has brought us four championships,

something we never thought would happen. >> the best in sports. >> but it has changed. >> do they want to win a world series because they don't act like it, and by the way, the best sports group in the world. but they're not acting like it right now. let's stop playing this game. >> their attention seems divided. they own liverpool as we know, they own the pittsburgh penguins, they want the nba expansion team in las vegas. they have talked about the nfl team. the issue, though, is they have not operated with any sort of plan. losing mookie betts was unforgivable. he's a decent little move. >> justin turner is 38 years old. >> i'm saying he's a little move. >> three years older than j.d. martinez. >> he's a marginal upgrade.

and they're operating not like a small market team. they're operating like a small market team without a plan. that's the part that's so hard. that's the ownership too. very frustrated as you can see, fan base. >> and by the way, mike barnicle, i know we got to go. >> we do got to go. >> i just want to say this. here's the deal. >> here's the deal. >> if they're rebuilding, saying, listen, we have seen teams like tampa, and we're going to go that route, and you know what, we may be in last place for two more years, let me tell you something, this is our plan and we're rebuilding from the ground up, tell us the plan, we can live with the plan, but don't keep acting like you're a poor man's tampa. all right. don't keep acting that way. >> wow. simmer. >> they're one of the richest teams in baseball. give us the plan, we're grown up. say we're going to suck for the next two years, we're going to be in last place, but when we

turn that corner, glory days come back again. we can do that, but mike, they don't tell anybody the plan. they don't tell the players the plan. >> i think you guys have said this. >> they don't tell the fan base the plan. they got to stop blaming bloom. >> the fact that nobody has stood up in management or ownership to say here's where we are, here's where we're going, and here's how whistleblower -- we're going to go there. it's going to be tough, but this is a plan. >> we can deal with that. jack, you know what, teams do this once in a while. i was a braves fan back in the '80s. we lost 100 games, 101, 102 games, management said we're building a young pitching staff that's going to make us the best team of the 1990s. we're like, okay, we can deal with that, and sure enough, that's right. if that's what they're doing, just tell us. just tell us. we're grown ups.

>> here's one last caveat. >> one last one, sweetie, then we'll get to news, this is really important. >> if you viewed the boston red sox as a fantasy baseball team that you have keepers on, how many keepers are is there on the present boston red sox team, there's one. that's pathetic. raffe devers. >> when you were talking about football, i was watching the red zone last night, with my daughter amelia. >> we got it set for you. >> we did get it set up. it was hard, and i saw kornacki. kornacki was on the red zone, but here's what happened. there was some drama. >> what happened? >> so he called the anchors out. there were three anchors on the red zone, and he called them out for being wrong with their predictions, and do you know what the lady said?

>> what? >> steve kornacki, you can take your khakis and get out of here. and they went to break. >> i'll tell you something, pull on superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind. you don't pull the cape off the lone ranger, and you certainly don't attack steve kornacki and his khakis. >> they said get out of here. that was it. >> i'm so glad you guys were watching the red zone. >> it was fun. >> that's what jack and i do every sunday. ahead of a likely 2024 campaign, the biden administration is reportedly turning to social media to reach younger voters. according to "the washington post," the white house is planning to expand its digital strategy using platforms, and this i find confusing, like tiktok and whatsapp. i think tiktok was kind of a concern, but okay. it comes as studies show phone

apps are grabbing an increasing share of attention from would be voters. for more, let's bring in the director of polling at the harvard institute of politics, an msnbc political contributor and author of the book "fight how gen z is using their fear and passion." >> he interviewed the woman who took a bath in fruit loops. you remember that. >> yes. how can you forget it? >> before we get to all of this madness, let's talk about something you and i, we had an exchange this past weekend, elon musk losing, tesla losing something like 60% of its value just this past year. and you brought up a fantastic point about how 70%, 70% of this nation's wealth are in biden

counties. so when everybody's screaming, you know, own the libs, own the libs, why are these corporations doing what these corporations doing. i know there are good people in corporations, it's the bottom line. they get hired and fired based on the bottom line. their decisions are not to change the world. bp is not out there going how do we make the environment cleaner. other people are saying how do we bring social justice to the border, no, they're looking at their bottom line, and their bottom line tells them it's smart to actually be looking forward and being where 70% of american gdp is, especially if you have a high end brand like tesla. >> that's right, joe, a dear old friend of mine, randy shepherd once told me that we used to live in an era where consumers voted. we now live in an era where

voters consumer. right? and so many of the decisions that we make are based upon these values, and in order to buy a tesla, you need to have some affinity for the company. some affinity for the brand. if you don't do that, your brand will absolutely suffer, not just in the short-term but i think what they're realizing is for a generation, and that's, i think, the point of what i was trying to say, and by the way, it was 66% of the gdp voted for hillary in 2016. the democratic counties are creating more and more gdp as time goes on. >> interesting. >> so, john, let's talk about the biden team and their efforts to talk to young voters. a subject you know very well. tiktok is a bit of a controversial choice at this particular moment, i will note. but whether it's tiktok or other venues, what are you seeing in terms of your poll numbers in terms of the appetite for young voters to be politically involved, to stay politically involved, and potentially be

part of the biden team in '24? >> we saw just a tremendous outpouring of support, i think, among the progressive wing of this generation, this last election. we recently are publishing a very very large post election survey. we see overall, one in three young americans voted but that's not the right way to look at this, i think, in the midterms. we found progressives and democrats, a majority or more than a majority voted on battleground states. the idea of the biden campaign providing tools and relational tools for younger people, college students, younger women of color in particular driving these results is going to be a very significant way for the biden campaign to kind of expand their franchise and expand their base in 2024. it's not just about digital advertising, those tools, which don't have advertising in large

part, provide younger people an opportunity to share in their own way, you know, the story of their values, the story of the biden administration to their friends and family members. >> john, this is so interesting because if you look at the recent polls, the group in which the biden administration has the biggest problem is young voters. there were all of these polls, 56% of people around 35 who align with the democratic party say biden deserves a second term, and that's despite moves to try to reduce student debt and to minimize effects of people who have been convicted of marijuana offenses. is this about policy? is this about communication? is social media really going to change those kind of numbers or is this about the fact that young people feel, i don't know, joe biden is too old or they would like to see somebody else at the head of the democratic ticket? >> i'm going to push back a little bit on that one particular number. we need to think below some of these headlines. according to a cnn poll, a

president's approval rating has gone up 18 points with younger people from june until now. he had a 28 point margin among 18 to 29-year-olds and democrats did, the midterm elections. i believe that younger people are kind of essential to his base. and we really need to look at, i think, the complete picture here. so i don't think it's kind of weak among this generation. in fact, it's a combination, i think, of his record in terms of the bipartisanship around gun violence prevention, around climate, around, of course, keeping his promise on student debt is one of the reasons that we saw such significant turnout. remember, we saw this turnout a month ago in the midterm elections without trump on the ballot. democrats won 2/3 of 70% of a younger vote in the northeast around fetterman, in the southwest, in the south, so the democratic party understands how

essential younger americans are to the success and i think that's why they're investing so much in new relational tools and databases. >> part of the survey isn't about politics but it might be an element of politics, certainly. gen z mental health struggles, nervous, anxious or on edge, 66% of those polled felt that way in the prior two weeks of the poll. down, depressed or hopeless, 44% responded that they felt one element or another in the prior two weeks of polling. what does that tell you? >> let me boil it down real quick for you here. every single high school, every single college in america, you have dozens if not more young people are so depressed they're considering self-harm. 21% over the last two weeks, 5 or 6% every single day. that is an epidemic, we saw this

before covid, we saw this during covid, and now we're seeing this essentially post covid. it needs to have all of our energy to deal with this as soon as possible. >> all right. director of polling at harvard institute of politics, john della volpe, thank you so much, such an important message you passed along at the end there. it's something we have to keep focusing on much more. coming up, we're going to be taking a look at "the new york times" list of the best books published in the past year. plus award winning actor, john cusack is going to be our guest with a look at the role in providing support for children in ukraine that have been just such victims in this war since february. "morning joe" will be right back to talk about that. "morning joek to talk about that nicorette knows quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like... try hypnosis...

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and look at this shot at 48 past the hour. far harbor, maine, must be chilly there this morning. time to wake up, everybody. the staff of the "new york times" book review has released its best books list for 2022, recognizing some of the most powerful published writing of the past year. from novels that explore the nature of grief and humor to an in-depth analysis of how animal senses reveal the hidden sense around us. there's something for just about everyone. joining us now, the editor of the "new york times" book review, gilbert cruz. it's really good to have you on board this morning. so how do you rank -- i mean, what are the qualifications, what are the benchmarks for ranking these best books? >> sure. good morning. so it's a yearlong process that the staff of the "new york times" book review sort of

undertakes trying to get to the ten best books. there are hundreds if not thousands of books released every year, and every month we are taking a look ahead of time at books that are coming out and trying to balance a bunch of things, looking at the language, how well written is it, how surprising is it, is it a piece of nonfiction, is there new stuff in there, is it well told, is it energetically told, does it move us? you know, you're trying to balance those things at the same time. at some point throughout the year about a dozen of us on the desk get together, and we have weekly meetings in meetings to . should this be considered a best boog? best means different things to different people but i think we try to take into account what is going to stand the test of time and we think these ten will. >> do you have vocal fights of getting on this list? that prolonged themselves, the

fights? >> i think fights? we have strong debate. we have strong debates. >> the debates. >> the amazing thing, i have been on the back review for six months now. they can argue about books passionately. never be mean or yell. i wish they would. sometimes week and i think someone needs to come out strong or against for this. >> are you an arbitor? >> i try to run a democratic process. >> i assume my book finished just off the list at number 11. not to highlight anything because these are all brilliant. tell us about this book and why that one in particular called "we don't know ourselves" why it made the list. >> sure. so there are a lot of books about ireland.

there's a wonderful one from years ago about the history of the troubles also on the top ten list at the time. this one in particular managed to balance two things which is the modern history of a nation gone from something to something more amazing with a man's personal life. knotting the two things together we thought was harder than it appeared and the fact he did it seamlessly. >> okay. so i'm torn. my kids asked me what i would like for christmas. "checkout 19" and "trust." i want something beautifully written. i like a good plot. which way shall i go? what's on my christmas -- >> choose one over the other. >> i want to know what i'm getting for christmas. >> both are great.

"checkout 19" is more experimental than "trust." it has many, many delights about it. "trust" was one of my favorite books of the year. it is about a financier in early 20th century new york and starts with a fictional account of his rise and then the memoir and then an account of the memoir by the woman who helped co-write it and then the fourth part is the diaries of his wife and strongly plotted. very surprising. i want to read it again. >> you mention a book. how many first timers crack the list?

>> good question. i think -- on the nonfiction side there's first timers. i believe rachel who wrote a book about mental health. there are a lot of second books on here which is more impressive. the first you put all the energy in and hard to follow it up. >> how many novelists? >> five fiction and five nonfiction. that is one rule. try not to say maybe this person should be on there. but the rule trying to keep for a long time and five nonfiction and five fiction. mean great novels this year and we want to represent the full breadth of publishing over the year. >> lifetime ban for john lemire a yankee making fan making this

decision. >> fascinating. >> certainly gave himself a -- considering how nonhuman animals experience the world. tell us about "an immense world." >> sure. ed young is an amazing writer for "the atlantic." people might remember the stories about coronavirus in the pandemic but this is a book he is working on for a while. it is about animals. many people love animals. this is a book about how animals see the world and asking us to imagine what it is like to put ourselves in the bubbles of the different creatures, of sea turtles that use magnetic location to move throughout the world. dolphins who by use of echo location see shapes and see

shapes inside of shapes. asked us to imagine what it is like to be insects that cannot hear but use electrical impulses to move around the world. he tries to remove the reader outside of their sight based central world and anyone that reads this book will have dozens of animal stories that they can share at dinners epa parties for the following year. >> i remember when he was on the show for the book. thank you very much. great gift ideas. we appreciate it. >> and -- >> what? >> way to manage the so-called democracy. come on! >> now, now. they debated. >> they debated. >> they debated! >> that was good. >> guided them along. by the way, memo to the team for next year. he wants more yelling.

get there faster. >> i don't. just ahead on "morning joe," a live report from capitol hill ahead of the final hearing for the january 6 committee and legal analysis on how federal prosecutors may handle the recommendations from that panel. a big day today on capitol hill. "morning joe" will be right back. if you still have symptoms of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. stand up to your symptoms with rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. it can stop further irreversible joint damage. and rinvoq can leave skin clear or almost clear in psa.

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after my car accident, ♪ call owondnder whahatmy c cas. eight million ♪ so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. youour cidedentase e woh than insurance offered? call the barnes firm now to find out. yoyou ght t beurprpris you may have seen this week i made a major announcement. i'm doing a first collection of donald j. trump trading card. they're so neat. they feature incredible artwork pertaining to my life and my

career. for example when i was an astronaut or me riding a big elephant. each $99. seems like a lot and seems like a scam but in many ways you are. we love them. you can get them for freebie going online and looking at them. i don't know. maybe taking a screen shot. we would prefer it if you sent the $99. >> that's what you have been saying. >> i was right. you can just take a screenshot and see donald trump's head imposed on the weird cartoons. >> exactly. >> really strange locking ugly pictures. >> what a great deal. the way you sell it, i want to rush off and buy one right now. >> appalling and a sign of where we are. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, december 19. jonathan lemire --

>> we are at 37% of the country. >> do you think that anyone's buying those things? >> i think he is buying them all himself. >> sold out. he would never spend his own name. >> katty kay and mike barnacle with us. >> hours away from the final public hearing from the january 6 committee and we understand they'll ask the justice department to pursue three charges against former president trump. let's bring in correspondent garrett haake covering the 18-month investigation from the beginning. what do you expect from this big day on capitol hill? >> reporter: it is hard to believe it's almost two years since the attack on the capitol itself and today is it. the january 6 committee's last chance to make the case in public about who they think is responsible for this attack and they intend to lay

accountability at the feet of former president trump. we now know that they intend to recommend criminal charges for him on at least three separate counts. the first time ever a president is referred to the department of justice. the january 6 committee will vote today to recommend federal criminal charges against former president trump for his role in inciting the attack on the capitol. they'll vote to adopt the report they spent 18 months compiling and plan to announce referrals to the justice department for crimes including obstruction of an official proceeding, conspiracy to defraud the united states, and inciting an insurrection. >> this is someone who tried to interfere with a joint session, inciting a mob to attack the capitol. if that's not criminal then i don't know what is. >> reporter: committee members huddling over the weekend to finalize the plans including

referring members of congress who defied subpoenas to the house ethics committee. >> we have been careful to craft the recommendations and tethering them to the evidence. >> reporter: where jack smith oversees the investigation will carry no legal weight but significance as the conclusion of the committee's work. since the formation, the committee of seven democrats and two republicans conducted more than 1,200 interviews, issued more than 100 subpoenas including one to former president trump who did not respond. the committee argued the attempts to overturn the election results. >> we fight like hell. >> reporter: and the directing of a mob of supporters at the capitol on january 6 amounted to

an attempted coup. mr. trump on sunday attacking the committee as corrupt cowards who hate our country. i said in the piece the judicial referrals don't have a particular legal weight but the ramifications are potentially wide. former president trump's campaign told me yesterday they expect to respond more forcefully to the committee today. it is not just today. tomorrow the ways and means committee will vote that could vote to release the tax returns. just more bad news for a campaign struggled to get off the ground in the first month. guys? >> thank you. >> thank you so much. it is very interesting. donald trump talks about saying the people hate america. this comes from a guy who actually said a couple weeks ago he wanted to terminate the

constitution of the united states. it is very clear if we talk about who hates america, american values, who hates the constitution, who elevates themselves and puts them ahead of all else it is clear it is the person talking about terminating the u.s. constitution, the person who talked about for years trying to overton a presidential election, encouraged people to come and set off riots. it is orwellian to suggest that others don't love america when they protect the constitution and not calling for the termination of the constitution and trying to preserve what we have had over two centuries. that's peace of transis between presidents and he is trying to stop the peaceful transition of

power. really which is really just at the end of the day it is what makes this constitutional republic what it is. >> may not be perfect -- >> republicans lost this year. people lose elections and grace of and understood it is something bigger than them. >> that's what makes america great. >> allows the republic to continue. >> joining us is congressional reporter luke broadwater and state attorney general greg burr. >> quite a week ahead of us. >> what's standing out? >> yeah. obviously the big vote today at 1:00 on the criminal referrals. clearly we know at least three charms will be considered

against donald trump. perhaps even more. who are the other people to be caught up in this? there are a number of lawyers that assisted donald trump and mark meadows. will those be put in the jackpot to the justice department for potential investigation and crimes? and then what's going to happen with the republican congressmen who refuse to comply with the investigation? where will referrals to them go? so there's a lot of names on the board and the january 6 committee has a bunch of decisions to make but seems to me they are pretty unified at this point that they think donald trump committed crimes and needs to be held accountable for them. >> how likely is it that that will actually happen? >> i don't think it matters that the january 6 committee make it is referrals why the department of justice is going to decide

not based on what elected officials think but the facts and the evidence. these are professional prosecutors. they will focus on two things. do they have a good faith-base us to believe they'll get a conviction. there's going to be civil unrest? not charging him would perhaps be worse. someone that attempted to subvert democracy and show that donald trump is above the law. plus it is never a good policy to appease toddlers or terrorists. there's two other benefits. you complete a record to show who really was responsible for january 6. this is important for properity. from a political angle people

out there especially democrats want donald trump to be the nominee for the republicans in 2024 because he would be the worst and by making him into this maga martyr it makes it more likely that donald trump gains supporter within the base and more likely to be the nominee in 2024. >> the thing is you look at merrick garland and jack smith. interested in one thing. did donald trump break the law? do they have a strong case to take it to a grand jury and take it to a jury and trial? they can't go halfway here. they feel like they have a case to convict a former president or they can't. >> yeah. you have the wonder what they have there are done and the house select committee is going to be releasing to the public, handing over and referring a great deal of information to did

doj. while today portends to have a lot of drama and history to it, what would be the timeline for the doj to go through everything they are dealing to potentially get to anything in terms of an action against potentially this former president? >> one of the great benefits of being a federal prosecutor is you don't have the deadlines that state prosecutors have. federal prosecutors develop their own cases and will take the time and do it at a time that benefits them but on the other hand if you wait too long you move the timeline to the 2024 election and poses problems. i think that jack smith is going to make that recommendation to prosecute donald trump before march. i think it's much more likely to charge him under the documents matter. there's a direct tie between

donald trump and alleged criminality at mar-a-lago. he made a series of bad omissions. the documents are mine. declassified them. coming to january 6 it is aten waited the connection to the violence on that day. i expect a criminal charge for documents but not sure to charge him for january 6. >> yeah. we shall see. >> so interesting. >> mike barnacle, you have a question for luke. we have been showing pictures of the protesters, the rioters, the people who a lot of these people who are serving two, three, five, ten years, some 20 years prison sentences and almost all say the same thing. we went there at the behest of

donald trump, because donald trump told us to go there. you think about the people. a lot of them working class people that believed donald trump. went there. committed acts of violence and have to be held accountable. has to be justice under the law. they have to go to jail. beating the hell out of police officers. same time the question is, what about donald trump? he's the one that actually was responsible for all of this. he is the one. they're doing his work for him. how can he be above the law and not be held accountable? he lured to washington, d.c. and told them to charge the capitol. >> that's a good question. the people on the screen, the people sentenced, awaiting sentences both uniquely captives

and victims of trump presidency. the big difference nixon and now i think is that watergate and the nixon presidency, the demise of it, it captivated the country. seized the country's attention span. this has for a fleeting moment grabbed the attention of the country but i don't know that it maintains the hold on it. luke, as you go about the reporting, today's story is another example of your reporting, how do you handle the fact that unlike during watergate towards the end of the nixon presidency you have a uniquely separated political party, the republican party, who are aware of everything that happened and there's no yield,

there's no bend to facts and proof and evidence as there was in watergate? >> yeah. it does make reporting on -- in some ways it throws out the typical norms of how you approach a story in journalism weighing both sides. when one side is denying what happened on january 6, pretending it was someone else, antifa, that did it, you are not playing with two equal sides telling the truth. one side is dealing in the facts and the other side is making things up or trying to deny it saying it was just a peaceful tourist visit. now we are -- that makes the job as a journalist hard breaking the typical norms.

i did want to get to the point that joe was talking about with the rioters are posting on twitter i can't believe i'm going to prison for an nft salesman. i believe the committee's report will get into that. a lot of testimony that's been in trials where the rioters stormed the capitol and now feel regret. they feel they were misled. made into dupes and fooled by a president who lied to them. of course they bear some personal responsibility for that but every one for the most part blames donald trump and that he is the only reason they would have done it. >> all right why "the new york times" congressional reporter luke broadwater, thank you. while we are on it jury selection begins today in the

conspiracy trial of former proud boys national chairman enrique terrio and four other members of the group. the trial itself is expected to last around six weeks. if convicted he and four other proud boys could face up to 20 years in prison. he was arrested on unrelated charges before the capitol attack and was not there but prosecutors allege he coordinated elements of the proud boys assault and break-in. prosecutors say the four others were among the first wave of rioters to push past police and on to capitol grounds that day. today's jury selection follow it is conviction of two members of oath keepers. >> obviously that is most

serious charge. we have seen some -- >> historic. >> some members of other groups charged. what do you expect out of this trial? >> i think because we saw conviction of two other members of the same organization i think you probably will see the same here. bless you. i think what you will see is that the question is whether there was a plan, an agreement ahead of too imto commit violence on that day. it is more than cheerleading on the sidelines. you have to have an agreement to use violence to shut down a function of the government. they proved it in the stewart rhodes case. not all defendants. that's why they are going to trial because i think if the government got a conviction on all five they would have taken a plea by now.

one text said i want to see thousands burn that city to ash today. in the defense they say we're a patriotic men's drinking club. donald trump instigated this. we didn't plan this in advance. i think probably they are convicted but there's no guarantee. >> prosecutors as we have seen with oath keepers and the proud boys now they get to do what i'm sure you and other prosecutors love to do the most. put their words on the screen. let the jury look at their own word. that was no damning in the oath keepers case. >> so true. we prosecutors love that. normally defendants don't take the stand. they don't have to.

they can say the prosecution didn't meet the high burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt. the only way to hear from the defendant is through incriminating statements. we love that kind of stuffer and i think probably leads to the downfall or at the very least with enrique at the capitol you don't have to be part of the violence on the day to be convicted of a conspiracy to commit violence on that day. >> state attorney for palm beach county, florida, thank you for being on this morning. two republican governors seen as potential nominees are tacking very different stances on covid vaccines. last week florida governor desantis called for a grand jury to investigate what he called crime and wrongdoing related to the vaccines, a move widely

criticized by health experts and contradicts his past praise for the shots. he was aural for them and helped people get there. >> he was for them before he was against them. >> a study showed vaccines saved more than 3 million lives in the u.s. arkansas governor hutchinson asked about desantis' covid investigation yesterday on "meet the press" and here's what he had to say. >> we shouldn't undermine science, the medical community that's important to our public health. whenever you look at how i handled the pandemic in arkansas, we didn't have mandates of government forcing people to take the vaccine but i did go out into the communities and i had the medical experts there educating them as to how

this is beneficial. i think we are not good as a society. it is not the right direction if we diminish the facts, the best information that we have from science at the time. >> another governor from the south who did the same thing as asa hutchinson is ron desantis. he promoted it. he told people go out, get the vaccines. it is -- you know? this is obviously an attempt to drive a wedge between donald trump and trump's conservative base but the bizarre thing is he is doing well enough right now letting donald trump destroy himself. politically it is fascinating that he is taking this next step to own the libs when of course he is making himself look foolish understood mining the

past positions. >> yeah. they are basically fighting over the same ground coming to the conservative wing of that base. but also, now desantis having to chip in to some of trump support going after him on vaccines and covid restrictions because that was when trump was in office. i don't know that covid come the next election is a big fighting ground. so whether that's fertile for him and makes him look hypocritical. i did think listening to asa hutchinson there's an old voice for the republican party. somebody who's saying let's stick to the science and the facts and be reasonable. i will advocate for what science is dictating.

let's not make the government force you to do things approach. sounds like the republican party of ten years ago. >> two more stories making headlines. international tourists including americans trapped in peru evacuated. the tourists were stranded there as the country declared a 30-day national emergency amid mass protests in light of the country's president's impeachment, arrest and detention. he was ousted after he sought to dissolve parliament. and russia launched drones at the capital of ukraine this morning. drones were detected over the capital's air space and at least 15 of them shot doing. russian president vladimir putin

is expected to head to belarus today fueling fears he intends to pressure ally to join in a new offensive. still ahead on "morning joe," elon musk asked twitter if he should remain ceo and the answer is no. we'll dig into the uncertain future for the platform. that's next on "morning joe."

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all right. let's take a look at the latest headlines on twitter why is the elon era over? twitter owner musk has launched a poll on the site asking users if he should step down as head of the company. he has promised to abide by the results. and they didn't really turn out

in his favor with 17 million votes. 57.5% of users say elon should step down. the poll which is now closed comes amid fallout over a new policy twitter attempted to introduce yesterday. announcing and then reversing a plan to ban users from linking or promoting the pages on other social media platforms. he said going forward there will be a vote for major policy changes. my apologies. won't happen again. seemingly in response to the poll he tweeted as the saying goes, be careful what you wish, as you might get it. >> elon may be going but he is giving us memories that could last a lunchtime. i have to say, richard, some of

the people who are probably happiest about the results of this poll if in fact elon abides by it are the shareholders and those who have the largest stake in tesla that are cheering for him who want elon musk to succeed in his business ventures. it's been disastrous. all of it for tesla stock. it will be curious to see if he does leave but it is in his best interest. >> who will buy it? he was trying to raise money for twitter at the valuation he bought it at. i don't think they were forming a double line at that price. it would be a significant discount to get rid of it. there's a fundamental difference between running the companies you founded where you made the

dna and then acquiring a large social media company. this is a mismatch from day one. so if he were to get out of twitter i think it would be good. whatever decision making is, it is not characteristic of elon musk. it is not a match that's sustainable. i think the investors would have him go back to spaceships and tesla. >> of course. >> that's how he made his reputation. not on twitter. >> that's what he knows. i'm sure you remember the story. henry ford again created the modern age, the assembly line and the america that we know. of course, he was brilliant at it and then went up to capitol hill to testify. people were shocked how limited his knowledge was. he knew how to do one thing

exceedingly well and getting out of his lane things didn't go quite so well. jonathan lemire, it has been such a chaotic few months with musk. i'm sure it looked much easier from a distance to come in and clean this place up. but you and i and other millions and millions of people on twitter for a decade could tell him it's a sewer out there. >> it's gotten worse since he took over. the hate speech and the racist rhetoric increased in the musk era. is this an effort to own the libs or be a troll or center of attention? he grossly overpaid for twitter in the first place. it does seem like he had a

couple attempts to get out of it since and this poll that suggests to leave comes on the heels of not just that policy that prohibited people from linking to other social media sites and banned journalists he claimed because they were trying to dox him linking to publicly available information from his aircraft. the bans have been reversed mostly. the policy of linking is reversed mostly. it should be noted he put up other polls including about donald trump. abided by those results. we have to sigh as the day goes on. >> again, it is every day that he is doing. what i'm saying to anybody. everyone day running twitter is a day making enemies and with

tesla and spacex it is going to hurt the other business. ifr a saying around here. you know? we can get into music. do music. write books. do whatever. at the end of the day you guard the flag. right? guard the flag. what is the thing that pays the bill? what is the thing that's most important in the professional business? elon musk is not guarding the flag. he allowed it to be savaged. lost 60% of stock. it's been a savage year for tesla and he hasn't guarded the flag. perhaps this is where he goes back and worries about first things first. >> yeah. if he has to subsidize tesla with losses on twitter doesn't

make sense for him but there's the brand and reputation. the brand damage that's been done when you got liberals, tesla-owning liberals in california proud to be owning teslas saying i don't want anything to do with the company and will sell the tesla and buy an electric bmw or whatever. then he has a problem. we all know what it is like. you can spend years building a reputation and then years building a brand and lose that brand and reputation very quickly. he's going to have to rebuild that trust in tesla. whatever he does as a result of the poll. what happens to twitter? he'll own the company. presumably he will control whoever it is running it operationally day-to-day. >> people triking out against woke politics or whatever elon

was striking out against. owning the libs. there's a good point that in the states i believe he said states that were won by joe biden they control 70% of america's gdp. so you hear about -- colin kaepernick with a backlash. those kneeling for a while. people saying we won't watch the nfl again. won't subsidize mlb again. the wealth is in blue states. those 70% are the ones that by overwhelming majority of teslas. if people on the right decide,

we're going to shut down disney world, no, you are not. there's a reason why -- corporations are not do-gooders. when you see bp saying how much they love nature, whatever! they are worried about the bottom line. right? so if coca-cola or somebody else does somebody that upsets the far right you can try to own the libs. they're not doing it because they want to be loved by the libs. they want to make money! look at the data! your teslas are bought by the libs you're trying to own. they don't want them anymore. >> you got to secure the base. that is the base of tesla and fast losing the base and again he is not focusing on what he is good at and doesn't just own tesla.

he is on it 24/7. the tweeter in chief and two other businesses to run. can't run tesla or spacex. on twitter can't run it if you're at the world cup. doesn't make sense here. the a littlest on the crisis at the southern border as officials brace for the end of the trump era known as title 42. will the courts step in? we'll look at that ahead on "morning joe."

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the southern border. the mayor in el paso, texas, declared a state of emergency anticipating a bigger surge in illegal crossings if the trump era immigration restriction known as title 42 expires on wednesday. nbc news correspondentguad has the latest. >> reporter: this morning the surge of illegal crossings. >> if the courts do not intervene and put a halt to the removal of title 42 it will be total chaos. >> reporter: the title 42 policy allows the federal government to quickly expel migrants and deny asylum set to expire wednesday. friday a federal court blocking an effort by gop officials in 19 states to keep the policy in place. republicans expected to bring the case to the supreme court. in el paso, texas, shelters are

overwhelmed leaving migrants in the streetings. >> we see families out here. the temperature is cold. it's a point they could be desperate. >> reporter: they spent the night here. it was really cold and getting free food, water. overnight the federal airport a camp site for many. declaring a state of emergency over the weekend. >> the influx on wednesday will be incredible. it will be huge. >> reporter: senator manchin urging president biden to extend title 42 by executive order. >> we need an extension until we get a viable answer for this. this is unattainable. this is wrong. coming up, john cusack bringing attention to thousands of children displaced by the war in ukraine. coming up at the top of the

fourth hour nbc's ali vitali with the new reporting on the charges the january 6 committee will refer to the justice department against former president trump. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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welcome back. more now on russia's ongoing assault against the people of ukraine. hundreds of children have reportedly been killed and many more are struggling with frigid temperatures amid the kremlin's attacks on the ukraine children's action project was founded to help address the physical and mental needs of the children of ukraine as they witness the atrocities of war. joining us now, the founder of the ukraine children's action project, the founding director and senior research scholar at

the national center for disaster preparedness as columbia university. also with us, actor, screenwriter, and political activist, john cusack, a member of the advisory board of the ukraine children action's project. we thank you both very much for being with us this morning. doctor, i old love to start with you and not just talk about how this came about but how it works, how do you get help to the children of ukraine? >> well, it's a pretty complicated problem, obviously. this is a country which used to be at war but now it's not at war in the traditional sense. now it's being targeted by a massive campaign of terror being mounted by the russians. russia was humiliated several times in this process, once when they didn't take over ukraine as they thought they were going to. then in october and november, two things happened which

changed everything. one was the ukrainians presumably blew up the bridge between crimea and russia, and then the russians were forced out of kherson. and i think those events humiliated putin enough that he is now striking back in an unprecedented really never seen before since world war ii of going after the infrastructure. and i'm telling you, yesterday, windchill factors in lviv and kyiv were around 12 degrees. now, we have at least 10 million to 15 million people in ukraine including a lot of kids who are now suffering under ferocious cold winter temperatures. it's truly a humanitarian crisis and disaster. >> such brutal, brutal circumstances they're living under. john, how do you get involved with ukraine's children's action project? >> well, some close family

friends of mine for a long time had been working on this and were friends with the good doctor erwin and his wife, karen whose reputations speak for themselves, so there was an urgent need to do something. we were all talking and the idea that this is the largest displacement of people since world war ii is hard to get your head around. but if, you know, there's maybe one set of numbers that really can send it home, if you think about it, 5 million kids have been displaced, and not only they suffering severe trauma and need medical assistance and not only do they need stoves, generator, winter clothes and safety, they need some help to deal with the psychological trauma of having their families ripped apart and all the things they've been going through. so, these recovery camps are, you know, urgently needed, and i know since i know all the people

involved and erwin and my friends, that this is completely transparent. all the money is going where it should, which to me, if i'm going to give money or ask people to donate and i think it's just vital ongoing work. >> so, doctor, talk about the process of how this material gets there. how can it be done to safely assure that the desperately needed supplies get where they need them? and how great is your level of concern? you mentioned the frigid temperatures. more drone attacks from the russians this morning on a couple ukrainian cities. they show no sign of abating. how desperate is the situation? >> i'll put it this way. zelenskyy said himself the need for electricity, generators in the country of ukraine, the need for ammunition and, you know,

other weapons of war, i mean, whether that's exactly true or not, but the point is well made, they have like 25,000 communication centers throughout ukraine that have to be powered. if electricity is down, that's a ferocious hit on the ability for ukrainians to communicate with one another and the outside world. but the big thing is the heating situation. generators are desperately needed. what we're doing, we have a couple of incredible volunteers, ukrainians, karen and i have been there four times, but we have volunteers on the ground who are shopping for generators all over europe, shopping for price and shopping for, you know, the availability and accessibility. we can't be shipping things from the u.s., so we raise money. john's help has been unbelievable. and we send that money to reliable sources that we have been working with there. they go shopping for generators.

>> john, the idea of all these children, hundreds of thousands of children, suffering from terror and trauma of war, some will never recover mentally. but the basic aspect of finding these children in need of help, some must be in poland, some must be scattered throughout other countries. the ones who are in ukraine live in peril each and every day. how do we go about finding these children in order to help them? >> well, erwin can speak to that, too, but one of the things we've noticed is these recovery camps we've set up are doing extremely well not only giving people a sense of safety, a sense of community, a sense of -- it's not hundreds of thousands of kids, there's 5 million displaced kids. it's a hard number to wrap your head around. but there's mental health professionals. there's winter clothes. there's boots. and every time we put out

something so that people can be enrolled in the camp, before -- the minute it's been posted it's sold out and we need more. so every camp we need to expand these camps, there are so many people in need, it's hard to even get your head around it. i mean, erwin can speak to that. there's people inside of ukraine. there's people outside the borders in warsaw. but the need is just unbelievable. >> mike, to your question, there was only 7.5 million children in all of ukraine before this war. 5 million as john was saying with are displaced, 2.5 million in ukraine. this was not a leisurely trip from eastern ukraine to safety in the west. these were people and children and mostly children and mothers because dads are in the military, they left in the

middle of the night when their apartment building was being bombed. there are children who watched russian soldiers murder their parents. the trauma you mentioned is serious and long lasting. >> and, you know, the idea is we need to start investing in people as human beings again. so much money around for these weapons systems and all these thingsing but there are actual human beings on the ground, in the united states and all over, we have to start investing in human beings. >> john cusack and dr. erwin redlener, we thank you so much. up next, what to expect from the january 6th select committee during the panel's final public hearing today and live to qatar following yesterday's thrilling world cup final. final. (customer) hi? (burke) happy anniversary. (customer) for what? (burke) every year you're with us, you get fifty dollars toward your home deductible.

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