benny thompson, for an exclusive interview to discuss the committee's final report we will see tomorrow. the criminal referrals of donald trump. be sure to tune in tomorrow night to watch the interview start part of our special coverage here on msnbc, beginning at eight p.m. eastern. that is it for all in on this tuesday night. i find alex wagner it joining right now. alex wagner's night, starts right now. good evening. >> hi, ali. i want like a six part series with simone sanders and bennie thompson. >> right? she knows a lot about a lot of things that are very useful to us. >> the two of them together. benny thompson tells people a lot of -- he has a lot of information, occasionally -- disclose it. if anybody is going to get him out of it, it is simone sanders. that is must-see tv. >> i'm looking forward to your show tonight, have a good one. >> thanks for joining us this hour. tonighti am not a crook. if any line is associated with president richard nixon, it is that one. that line wasn't about nixon's

biggest can't scandal. it was actually about watergate. nixon didn't even say that nine at the white house. he sent it add to disney world. richard nixon was famously a huge disney fan. the next in presidential library says that he still holds the record for the most visits to disneyland of any president, which is just on the record you might necessarily associate with richard nixon. in fact, nixon was so into this knee that he and his family were literally the first guests ever to ride to disneyland monorail. -- cut the ribbon and everything. this trip, the i am not a crook trip, that was business, not pleasure. in november of 1973, the month after nixon's vice president agnew resigned in controversy. the month after the saturday night massacre, where nixon had to attorney general resign on him in a single night, because he ordered them to fire the special prosecutor investigating watergate. the associated press held a

conference at the brand-new contemporary resort at disney world in orlando. nixon drove down to do an hour-long televised q&a in a disney world conference room. it was filled with 400 of the associated press is managing editor's. this was clearly going to be a tough crowd. nixon knew the. he did it so he could show he was clean. to declare his innocence. it was not watergate, or the agnew scandal, that prompted agnew to painlessly declare i am not a crook. it was his taxes. >> i want to say this to the television, now. i have made my mistakes. in all my years of public life, i have never profited. never profited for public service. i earned every cent. in all of my years of public life, i have never obstructed justice and i think, to, that i can say that in my years of public life, that i welcome

this in examination because people have got to know whether or not the president is a crook. well i'm not a crook. i have earned everything i've got. >> the crux of nixon's tax scandal is that when he left white house after being eisenhower's vice president is that he took his vice presidential records with them. nixon then don't need those records back to the national archives, year after year, so that he could write the donations off of his income taxes. for a grand total, somewhere in the ball part of $500,000. as much as we also see next with watergate, his tax scandal was a huge deal at the time. so big that it basically forced nixon to release some of his tax returns to the public. congress didn't trust him and ended up ordering the arrest to show even more. that is how we got nixon tax scandal. to avoid scandals like that, every president since nixon has voluntarily released his tax returns. every president except donald trump.

>> will you release any of your tax returns for the public to scrutinize? >> we are working on that now. a very big -- issue now i overthink all approved and -- we will be working on that over this period of time. absolutely. but >> what is period of time? before the voting begins? >> this knowledge normal tax return. >> there's not a normal type return. >> it sure wasn't, that was january of 16. he promised he would make his big and beautiful returns public nearly seven years ago. of course, he never did. the very next month, february of 2016 trump started claiming that his taxes were under audit by the irs and somehow that meant he could not they could not be released. that was his line and he stuck to it. now, we have gotten pretty major piece over the seven years towards what exactly trump is unwilling to disclose thanks to the pulitzer prize-winning investigation about tax trump taxes in the new york times. we will be speaking with one of the reporters in that investigation, suzanne craig, in just a second. we the public have never truly

gotten full transparency into former president donald trump's financial background. tonight, that changed. way back in 2019, the house -- committee subpoenaed 60 years worth of trump tax returns from the treasury department and irs. they actually used the same legal mechanism that congress in the 70s to get nixon's taxes. rather than complying, as an extended, trump started a more than three year long legal battle which went all the way up to the supreme court. just last month, the court ruled on the side of the committee. what is amazing here is how down to the wire this all was. i mean, trump type to pull the, delight, a light, delay, move. it aims worked. in a week and a half republicans take control of the house and they would have almost certainly put the caution on this entire thing. tonight, just over an hour ago, the committee voted along party lines to release trump's tax

returns from 2015 to 2020. the actual process of releasing that may take a few days. the committee is going to put out its report with its analysis, but also going to put out trump's wrong tax returns from 2015 to 2020, which trump said, are big and they are beautiful. or so he says. they just have to redact all of the social security numbers and personally identifiable information first. that is how much detail we in the public are going to be getting here. so nitty-gritty that the committee has to redact the social security numbers. i know we are very much in the throes of other ginormous trump scandals. today is the meat in the sandwich between yesterday's final january six hearing and tomorrow when they release the full report. after seven years, the country is finally going to see trump's taxes. moments ago, democrats -- explain their vote. now we have already gotten a huge elevation about trump's

taxes. the reason the committee wanted trump's taxes in the first place was to make sure that the irs was handling them properly. in 1977, after the nixon tax scandal, congress passed a law requiring all presidents to have their taxes undergo a mandatory audit by the irs. we now know that when president trump became president trump that somehow, that audit, didn't happen. >> in the case of the trump years, there was only one time when the mandatory audit was triggered. that was when chairman -- wrote a letter. actually, none of the examinations during those years were ever completed. in 2018, 2019, and 2020, the start of this examination wasn't even begun until after trump left office. >> joining us now is congressman dan -- a democrat in michigan who sits on the means committee.

thanks for making time for us tonight, i know your behind closed doors up until just a few moments ago. what can you tell us about the timing of this mandatory audit that all presidents are supposed to undergo? >> well, part of the problem with the fact that it is a policy of the irs and not codified in law is that it is up to the irs to determine when and how they will conduct this sort of an audit. what we don't know now, of course, after examining all of these documents is that the audits were never completed when it came part to president trump. -- just noted on air, it wasn't until chairman -- of april 3rd, 2019, sent a letter requesting these documents under section 60 103. with the authority that we have to get out the documents. it wasn't until then, that very day, that an audit was actually initiated. no audits from 2015, all the way through today, no audit of the president trump taxes

however been completed. very few were even tagged for audit until after -- in fact, none were tagged for audit until after we began this process of trying to ascertain these documents. clearly the irs failed to conduct the audit for the president of the united states. clearly this president's taxes are a matter of public interest, innocent he was the president of the united states with unique authority that no other person has. the reason why we ask for these returns posed to determine whether we need to strengthen this aspect of american law, the american tax code. clearly, after examining the audits that we -- sorry, this actress we looked at in the report of the joint committee on tax station in the ways and means staff is clear that we need to follow through with legislation. no documents make the argument stronger for the need for us to

codify this in law to strengthen the mandatory audit program then an examination of those tax returns. that is why it was so important. we felt that they needed to be forwarded to the house of representatives which, makes them public in -- step. >> i have to ask, have no idea what the answer to this is, trump's tax returns with such an objective debate. there were so much in the news media. how did the irs to forget they had a mandatory audit of the presidential tax returns? is there politics involved here? is there something bigger outplay than omission? >> it's hard to say. we know this was a failure at the irs. there's no question about that. how that came to pass is another point, i think people speculate about. it is the case that the president of the united states sits a top federal government -- might speculate out there has been influenced. maybe not. one of the reasons why we felt like it was important quantify

this is we don't want to leave it up to somebody sitting at the irs, an employee of the federal government deciding that they should initiate an audit of the president of the united states. we think that ought to be done by operation of law and not left up to a person who indirectly or directly reports to that very same president of the united states. that obviously doesn't make sense and that's one of the reasons we are anxious to move forward on legislation. >> the purpose -- of the purpose we ask for all this in the first place. it's a try to see if this is working and how bad it is to correct it. we've come to the conclusion that this is worth and many of us expected. i don't expect there would be no audits initiated. i was shocked to see that. >> i think the other thing that confuses people is that president trump said, for a while, but the reason he could not release his tax returns is because they were under audit. how does this factor into all of this?

i assume that's a different audit, he was a -- force of the mandatory presidential audit. perhaps usually the lap. because he was asserting that well before any audits apparently actually started happening? >> it's an interesting question. the president, as an individual, may have been under audit the way lots of americans come under audit. he had been, previously, under audit. he was not under the mandatory audit which we believe we need to be done on a particular timeline. i mean, there's no excuse, for example that any audit of the president, president trump, whether began in 2015 or afterwards. none of them have been completed. now one. >> so, we don't want to leave ourselves in a situation where it's up to the irs to try and audit him and up to the irs to fight with the president of the united states over the conditions of that auditing process. the mandatory audit of the president and vice president of the united states are to be

codified in law and strengthened, so it doesn't have to happen, -- on our timeline. not in a situation where the president can then simply delay, delay, delay, obviously. which obviously been attacked that he's used throughout his entire business career. we can't let that happen when the president of the united states with incredible authority. to affect policy and to affect his own fortunes. >> can i ask, because we're talking with delay and because the clock is very much to condone to the end of the year. the way the means committee received these tax returns last month. today the day there is actually been a debate and vote whether to release them. what is clear the cap between when the committee forgot them in the vote happens they? when you think the public will actually see the returns? we'll be this week? >> it will be. it will be as soon as we can get the redactions none. republican and emphatic staff are working together to make sure we identify that personally identifiable

information that should not be released. that is being down even as we speak. the reason -- acting now is that we were just able, as a result of the supreme court decision in november, november 22nd, we were just able to get access to the documents that takes some time to go through these voluminous returns and prepare reports so that we can inform ourself on the decision. the reason why he has taken so long, just to be clear, is because we wanted to wait until the end of this calendar year. the end of this term. it's because this case is tied up in the courts. we won 44 cases and three separate courts and then with the supreme court. justice roberts. determining that we were correct in our authority to seek these documents. -- single day in congress. even if it in the last days of a congress, we told an obligation to do our job. the question is whether or not we can get legislation enacted

and the present tense desks that it becomes law. the other questions about republicans join us in this. the maid if objected to the release of these documents, i think it's important because it's important context to support the need for legislation. -- they ought to codify mandatory oddly program, then let's do that in a bipartisan way. >> it's going to be a great test of how -- they are to -- the president. beautiful tax returns. they are coercive controversy in the modern-day. democratic congressman -- >> member of the ways and means committee, thank you for being here today. we appreciate your time. >> thanks, alex. >> that's meant to suzanne craig. she is an investigative reporter for the new york times and one of the lead reporters on the times multi year investigation into donald trump's finances they want to poll surprise in 2019. he's literally the perfect person to talk to about why ways and means committee decision today.

-- how are you greeting this -- is our information that you are particularly interested in finding out, that you have not thus far been able to find out in your extensive reporting? ? >> i'm smiling because one second before i came on air to a report came out. i am trying not to look over here and read it. the there's probably going to be a lot in there. i think we are not, i don't know where we are going to find anything too crazy that we haven't known for -- the new york tine news reported five years that are being released today, we have more information than they do in terms of individual businesses. we found donald trump -- businessman. most of his businesses lose a fair bit of money. i don't they were going to see a break from that, we're gonna find out, in the last two years. he had a change of fortune? we're probably going to see covid had a pretty big effect

on his businesses. this audit issue is interesting. i want to bring out the presidential audit in the audit that we found out it was against -- could cost him in excess of $100 million. we learned today but that audit we started in 2009. it's still open it sounds like. then there is the regular presidential audits that are supposed to be done that weren't done. i have to say from the least shocking things i've heard today, but it is sort of surprising that they weren't even bothering to do it. -- >> can i interrupt you? >> why is it not surprising to you? congressman kildee seemed very shocked and you don't seem shocked at all. explain the gulf there? >> when i find out there is gambling akin in a casino, i'm not surprised. everything will be lifted with the trump administration, to learn that the irs did not audit his taxes as they were supposed to? that's really surprising thing

i think i have heard come out of the four years of the trump administration. it's upsetting, as a taxpayer and citizen you would hope that they had done it. i don't know why they didn't. maybe they don't have enough staff who dedicated to. you think they have a team of people who could do it. maybe there is no order from on high not to do it. we don't now, but it's, shocking but not talking, is what i'm saying on that. >> it is interesting that the other audit that we learned about in 2020 1:22 when you got a huge amount of tyson region, we also got some information with that big audit. that, apparently, still open. essentially something to watch. -- it goes against him. penalties and interest now, it could go well above 100 million. that's not a small amount of money for anyone including donald trump. >> when we talk about the financial straits trump find himself in, there is that potential looming $100 million. last month, a judge appointed an independent monitor to

oversee the trump organization. allen weisselberg, his chief financial officer for the trump organization is going to jail. little shame, with the new york a.g. -- fraud suit against him that could cost -- could effectively shut down the business as well. a operating -- in new york. >> let's talk on that one, because that may settle and we don't know it's going to happen. that one could go upwards of 200 and $50 million. these fines aren't tax deductible. we can't go in and then use it to reduce his taxable income. i mean, that's a big number. then you think, you are seeing signs of stress in this business. the biggest 1.2 is the sale of his the old post office hotel. he recently built it. it was a crown jewel in his collection of hotels and golf properties that he has. they sold it. and separately, i, per se everybody kind of laughing at whatever this fungible and

evening that he's doing over -- >> nfts. >> and if he's. yeah, that was crazy, right? i only anybody was saying it doesn't look crazy, this is a guy who cares about his brand. this is not good for the brand. this is sort of where he's at and you have to question why is he doing it? i think is probably a bag of money at the end of it. that's why he did it. but it's not good for his brand in a lot of things he's been doing aren't good for his brand. he just continues down the slippery slope. there was a point in time where he had a brand that it was very -- thought of in many circles to sort of stand for high quality. >> i think a lot of people looked at the sale of the nft as trump dressed up as a superhero and like a firefighter and an astronaut and chuckled at it, but it was actually indicative a man who seems desperate. this is the kind of marketing -- this makes the trump vodka and

trump stakes look like high class marketing ploys, right? >> it makes the trump ties look like the best thing ever. it does. the first thing i saw when i saw it was, wow, he must need money. >> his fundraising, even as a political figure, is greatly diminished from when his announcement for the 2024 campaign. he raised exponentially last money that he did when he announced his last presidential bid. where we're looking at is a picture of a man who seems increasingly desperate and perhaps she cares most about, which is financial prowess. >> the other thing that's important, we -- the information we saw was up until 2018. we were seeing going into that he had the apprentice and the apprentice brought in a lot of money. not just directly from the apprentice, but he got all of these other deals around the branding deals that he was able to do. hotel deals overseas, other things. we saw going into the

presidency and leading up to actually when he ran, that was falling off. it's not doing well now. you haven't seen since he left office, there are countries around the world. there are hotels calling him saying, put your name on my hotel. so that income has dried up. they're just not a lot of good signs that we were seeing coming into this. i don't think that additional information we are going to get, there's probably one who's really interesting stuff. but don't think is going to cut across the narrative that we were seeing. >> suzanne craig, investigative reporter for the new york times. the oracle when it comes to trump's taxes. thanks for joining us tonight, we will be back to you soon for more. >> they are having. me >> very much what had tonight, which is hours away from the january six committee releasing its final report. wrapping up a year and a half of its investigation into the violence at the capitol in the weeks leading up to it. over at the department justice, the investigation into january

six is very much ongoing and it is an open question about what special counsel jack smith is up to as the investigation in congress comes to an end. and just how much does the secret service know about what donald trump's -- were planning to intersects. new reporting from kano -- the reporter who wrote the book on a secret service. just ahead, stay with us,. it's time for theraflu hot liquid medicine. powerful relief so you can restore and recover. theraflu hot beats cold.

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as the jury's committee held its final public meeting yesterday and unveiled for criminal referrals for former president donald trump, it also released a 154-page executive summary. a very hefty, 154-page summary idly on the committee's key findings for the 18 month investigation. chief among those findings, president trump to disseminated false election fraud allegations pressured pence and other election officials met with congress and some enough island mop to washington, d.c.. all in support of a multi part conspiracy to overturn the lawful results of the 2020 presidential election. but there were other less principal findings in that report that were bombshells in their own way, like this one. the committee believe some witnesses with close ties to

trump were less than honest with the committee. the committee called people including ivanka trump, kayleigh -- hope hicks and former secret service official tony war nada. now we are learning from a cnn report that donald trump's top ethics lawyer, stephen paton nino, advised his former -- former client castillo hutchinson who gave that explosive testimony to the committee the summer, presently no advised her to tell the committee she did not recall details that she did indeed remember. according to cnn, -- political action committee paid for pasadena to represent hutchinson. we just something that she certainly demands for in certain -- questions ranging or six have certainly not albany answered and they are likely to be more of them tomorrow. in less than 24 hours, the committee will start to make the mother lode of it's evidence public and that one clue much of its newly 1200 transcripts and hundreds of

document about trump's involvement in january 6th. for months, the doj has asked the committee for many of these items and four months the committee has been reluctant to ask acquiesced to the quest, until now. hours, ago -- reports that the special counsel jack smith sent the select committee a letter earlier this month requesting all the materials that the committee is gathered for the last year and a half. as a last week, the committee began to send over the goods. reams of documents in transcripts. nbc news confirms that the committee has been actively cooperating with the justice department for the past month, just ahead of tomorrow's big public reveal. joining us now is luke broadwater, congressional reporter for new york times. luke, thank you for being here tonight. i got some questions about what's happening between the doj and the january six committee. because for a long time, we've had reporting that there was tension between the two. does now seem that they are working hand in glove and do you read anything into that

cooperation as far as potential criminal indictments based on the referrals from the committee? >> right, well we know that the justice department wants everything the january six committee has. for a long time, the january six committee was reluctant to turn over all the materials to the justice department, but they have begun to do so. we know from the committee's report yesterday, the executive summary that they have already given them some materials about possible obstruction and witness tampering in the committee's view. that they're going to begin giving them all the transcripts, hundreds and hundreds of transcripts before the end of the month. this was justice has wanted for a long time, they feel the committee has done a really robust investigation here and as they're interviewing some of these witnesses they want to see exactly what those witnesses said to congress, before they questioned them themselves.

so there was a bit of a, i think in my view bureaucratic fight of this for several months. and what people view that is unfortunate, but does seem now that this is going to be full cooperation. >> so we're not at a point yet where one might say, oh there specific cooperation or -- we were seeing eyed eye on these specific criminal referrals that the committee issued yesterday and will inform the indictment process if there is one. >> i guess if you don't know the answer to that, let me also, ask loop -- >> go ahead, go ahead. i think little too soon to read into that based on this. i think what we can safely assume is that the justice department is interested in investigating all these things. not that they've reached the same conclusions a january six committee put out yesterday when they issued this criminal referrals. so they want to see all the evidence they, can. we >> know they are really ramping things up. they put out subpoenas in all

seven states where the so-called, fake electors scheme, was carried out and we know that that was carried out by the trump campaign, lawyers from the trump campaign. we know that that was the basis of many of the referrals that we saw yesterday. so, there's a very active investigation. i think this is just one more sign that jack smith is getting out of business and will be very serious about how he's going about his work -- >> it seems like the committee also painted some red flags for jack smith to further investigator. they repeatedly speak on witness neighboring, that there are numerous witnesses whose testimony was unreliable and equally sort of suggested, perhaps the doj will have more -- they'll be more effective in their line of questioning, should they choose to call these witnesses in. >> is your expectation that people like tony -- kayleigh mcenany, mark meadows, dance could be, now that they i mean when we think the doj is in terms of following up on witnesses in testimony that the

committee has found questionable? >> right, well the committee has long said that the justice department has certain powers and abilities that they lack. >> remember, they are congressional investigation, their legislators not federal prosecutors. they don't have the power to tony body in jail, anybody in handcuffs. they can't even, really, threatened to do that. the justice department certainly can and so i think many of these witnesses may well treat a subpoena from the justice department differently than a subpoena from a legislative branch. we've even seen the justice department subpoena some of the same witnesses that have already testified before the committee in fact, get some -- the sum of the privilege assertions that some of the witnesses made before the january six committee. so i do think if they put their full effort into the

investigation they can easily go beyond what congress has done here in the congressional investigation was very robust. >> that is saying something, to go well beyond what the committee did given how, as you say robust investigations been. luke broadwater, congressional reporter for the new york times, thanks as always. >> thank you. >> still ahead this hour, the generators committee final report is likely to focus on the actions of the foreign president, but there's still a lot we don't know. about what the secret service did and did not do leading up to the riot on the capitol. -- carole at the washington post has reported extensively on the secret service's role that day she will join me to discuss questions that very much stale linger. stay with us. >> stay with us >> 't rocket science. kitchen? sorted. hot tub, why not? and of course, puppy-friendly. we don't like to say perfect, but it's pretty perfect. booking.com, booking.yeah. suffering from sinus congestion, especially at night?

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donald trump tweeted this. big truck protests in d.c. on 20 26th, be there, will be wild. less than a week later, december 24th, the secret service received an alarming report about how trump supporters were reacting to his message. from the report, trump can't exactly openly tell people need to revolt. this is closest you will ever, another route. >> i read the president's tweet as armed. >> there are not a cup of coffee and easy to stop what's

hat coming, providing other. >> be in place when congress times get to the meeting and i'm sure they know who they fear. trump's we was being interviewed is a call to arms, an imitation revolt. two days later, december 26th, the secret service got another tip. this time, about the proud boys plan to literally kill people during unarmed march in d.c.. the informant then added, please, please take this tip seriously. it is later on december 29th, the secret service held an intelligence briefing where concluded present trump supporters have propose a movement to occupy capitol hill on january 6th. it does not get much clearer than that. the secret service in other intelligence agencies knew ahead of time, the capital was likely to become a target of violence on january 6th. one of the many things we learned from the executive summary of the january six committee released yesterday and from that report we also learned that the person who was charged, in charge, even for me the white house about these alarming threats doesn't recall

if he informed anyone about these alarming threats. that man's former white house deputy chief of staff and former secret service agent tony ornato. this is the question from the committee. do you remember talking to chief of staff mark meadows about any of your concerns about the threat landscape going into january 6th? >> ornato, i don't recall. however, in my position i would have made sure he was tracking the demos which received a daily brief of presidential briefing. despite having key intelligence in hand, it being literally his job to inform the white house about these threats, mr. ornado told the committee doesn't recall if he did. it's important pay tension to the language here, because it is not the first time that the committee has been stonewalled with those exact words. in fact, another big revelation from the committee yesterday is that it has specific evidence that at least one witness was asked by pro trump allies to not recall the facts during an interview. that witnesses lawyer would not

tell her who was paying his fees. quote, the lawyer advised witness that the witness could, instance or can stances, telling me that she did not recall facts. when she did, actually, call them. we don't know for pro trump group told mr. ornado to do the same thing, but one does wonder. especially because ornado seems to have had a close relationship with trump lawyers secret service agent. so much so that trump to come to work at the white house. then there is this, the summary from january six panel says a small group of secret service agents relied on private counsel. rather than using representation assigned by the sea i serum siege and see, that representation would've been free. the committee then cites footnote 704, which lists tony ornato as one of those agents. now, it's unclear if the secret service would have assigned one to miss or not associate white house employee during january six, but the fact that he

retain private counsel. who is paying for? it we don't know. the committee is planning on releasing the full transcript of one of his testimonies in public and perhaps more importantly, at the justice department can make its own conclusions. especially because the january six committee has found or not out to be significantly unreliable. joining us now to discuss this is -- a national investigative reporter for the washington post. she is also the host of zero fail, the rise and fall of the secret service. carol, it's great to see you, you're the first person i thought of yesterday coming through the sands summary. about the secret service, when you make of the fact that there were instances cited in the report that a retaining privacy council and louis taking on free agency representation? >> well, it seems as if in the course of your public servant role that you have a very specific job, you assess the security for the president or

vice president or family members. you provide protective intelligence about potential threats to the protectees of the secret service. it seems like in the course of that job, nothing too controversial actually actually or legally compromising is going to come up for you. so, i understand why the committee highlights their concern about private counsel. the ideas, why spend all that money just answering basic questions about you doing your proper job, which is pretty much supposed to be a political. the palm for 20 are not always that he really breaks a lot of barriers in norms in the secret service as donald trump did throughout his presidency. tony ornato used to be a secret service head of security detail for donald trump. donald trump grew extremely fond of him, that really well of him. he was very loyal. an excellent detail lead all leader and wanted him to be

elevated to director. tony did not want that job, the president made him the white house deputy chief of staff. was moment at, alex? you know it very well because you have really studied this too, he became a political operative. in the white house even though he had a public service job and still, technically, worked for the secret service. what was his new mission? not to be looking out for the security of the president, but to be looking out for how the president could be reelected. creating events moments and public photo ops that would make the president look stronger and help him win over voters. that was a big issue and i can see, now, why ornado would want his own cancel because he didn't have -- did have an exceptionally unusual job as a political, basically a political deputy who enabled donald trump in some of his worst instincts. especially in 2020.

there's a bit of salt by donald trump. he was not grabbed or lined for by the former president the first new swiped as detailed leader. why is a significant, alex? well, bobby engle says that this didn't happen. he didn't say i don't recall. here's the problem for the committee. they had a witness named cassidy hutchinson, the former aide to mark meadows -- chief of staff who had incredibly powerful testimony. much of it firsthand. she was there when mark meadows said she didn't want to act on any of the -- requests from his aides to please tell the rioters to leave the capitol. she was there and heard that the president had been briefed. mark meadows had been briefed --

or were going to brief trump on the fact that there were weapons in the crowd of trump supporters. they were these are really important moments, casten also relayed a bombshell that was secondhand. she was clear i was told by 20 no, she, said that the president lunch for his detailed -- lunch for the steering wheel. he was so irate and he was so furious he physically went for the jugular of these individuals when bobby engle told him it's not safe to take the capital, we are not going there. that also goes, in some respects, to donald trump's insistence on tape joining his supporters at the capitol. that is crazy. when you have sort of a rugged missile directed by the

president at the capitol, when you know there are weapons at the crowd and as you all know it because they became violent and there was a mob that attacked then icon of democracy. cassidy hutchinson didn't see herself and now we have 20 are not saying he doesn't recall and bobby engle -- and i was there. >> i will tell you, when the full report comes out tomorrow. that means i'm looking for. the chan transcript i want to see our bye-bye angles in tony ornato. carol -- -- -- thanks, alex. >> after devoting shortly before to release the donald trump's taxes, the ways and means committee just released two reports about donald trump's taxes. nbc nbc news passionately reporter -- court has been reading the reports is going to join us to talk about them. coming up next. coming up next

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their hands on former president trump's taxes for a few weeks. check it what they spotted already. they believe the irs are teenage to examine closely. they cared a net operating loss in 2015 of 100 and $5 million. they carry that operating loss over for several more years. they could be gift disguised as loans to voided give tax.

trump also said that dj di holding said that 126 point $5 million as a cost of goods sold deduction. they did not say what goods had been sold. that's all from the report released tonight by the needs committee after their historic vote to release president trump's tax returns as the very initial speed read they've also been cramming this stores. what are you seeing these reports? >> multiple reports from the committee. it's one by the joint committee in taxation. it has some more specific numbers on donald j trump's tax returns over six years from 2015 to 2020. the biggest thing that stands

out to me alex is a specific purpose in ways that they wanted this tax return to begin. there is a procedure by which they subjected tax return to mandatory review. the chairman had a specific shun that program was not operating as it should. they were the first president 40 years to consult in the presidential campaign. they will be unduly influencing that campaign after viewing the tax returns. we that is precisely what happened. neil said that we know now the first mandatory audit was open two years into his presidency. in other words, the review found that under the previous administration under the trump administration the program was dormant. that's why rich o'neil said that he one of those tax returns. a valid legislative purpose that he cited for viewing and americans tax returns. the chairman has to set. it you can just do it for any reason. it's a congressional committee. it's under the very stature

that goes back a century. this is a specific legislative purpose that they want what they wanted for their audit that information was not coming to them on end. that was including charitable contributions witherspoon deductions were supported. that's where they're more was necessary, reimbursing business expenses. and with their loans made to the former presidents children were loans for disguised gifts. it could trigger a gift tax. these are the kinds of things that the means committee said should've triggered that audit. it should have raised questions. the conclusion that this committee came to hear that congress needed to put it into law to make the presidents

cannot evade them, the american public deserves to know these kinds of information psychiatrist and potential foreign bank accounts. it validates its entire purpose. >> this is also president that said repeatedly that the tax returns are so big and beautiful. he didn't say voluminous but other people have. in the end the agency said they're expecting, large large amounts of tax returns all they got was one bankers box in the size of paper files. two banker box in the size of tax returns for the six years of tax returns. not so big after all. what else is new? >> senior national political reporter, it's great to see my friend. thank you for doing that speed read for us. that does it for us tonight, we will see you again tomorrow. and now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening o'donnell