this was a gruesome murder, high profile executive and his wife shot to death in beverl hills. we don't really think that children can murder thei parents. you have to have a lot of evil

in you to shoot your mom and dad. >> young rich handsome in a case made for hollywood they were ready for the camera -- >> it was the first televised courtroom drama that captivated the united states it was a huge deal >> erik and lyle menendez -- convicted of murdering their own parents. >> i ran around and shot my mom! >> it wasn't real. it just wasn't real. >> they're sociopaths -- and pretty big ones. >> now -- almost 30 years late -- chilling new details. evidence never broadcast before! a letter, hinting at secrets too dark to imagine. >> this is so outside of the norm something is going on i that house >> did they kill in cold blood or in crippling fear >> oh man it was gut-wrenching i wanted to bust the door down >> they spoke the truth abou what had happened. tonight, hear from the brother themselves >> people were afraid of him >> let's go through this bit b bit. >> there was no way he was gonna let this secret get out.

>> silence destroyed our whole family >> here it was -- the shinin symbol of their success. here, finally, an addres worthy of their long struggl -- their amazing rise. beverly hills, california. >> beverly hills emergency >> careful what you wish for >> someone killed my parents >> 28 years later -- it's stil the case that has the power to shock. >> it's beverly hills. it's the movie business. it's kids killing thei parents. >> what possessed those tw handsome young men who had been given, everything >> a porsche or a rolex. they got pretty much what they wanted >> why did they give bac murder >> how do you plead? >> not guilty. >> a sensational murder trial. >> theirs was the case to ushe

in wall-to-wall tv coverage. even before o.j. >> i was just firing as i went into the room, i just starte firing >> the kind of horror yo couldn't stop watching >> what was in front of you? >> my parents. >> tonight you'll hear the rea story, told by the investigators. >> his face was disfigured fro the shotgun blast that he took to the back of the head. >> by the young men themselves >> they weren't real wax. >> the real-life details of th defense that shocked america >> uhm, we would be in the bathroom, and uh, it would, he would put me on my knees >> i'm lookin'to see, is h tellin'the truth or not? >> tonight, we'll ask th brother at the center of it al -- about truth >> to this day i'm still dealing with -- with the controversy of it, obviously my own guilt in what--in--in what happened.

>> what really happened -- and why. so to understand, where to begin? how about here -- illinois the 1940's everybody who knows this story knows her as kitty but that wasn't really her name, was it >> no. it was mary louise >> she was the baby of the family, said her older siste joan vandermolen it was one of their brothers who came up with the nicknam that stuck for life. >> how did she get to be known as kitty >> i think it was when brian went out to get her for dinner one night or something and he said, "here, kitty, kitty, kitty." and she came >> and then, when kitty wa three, her dad left the family for another woman. and as that little girl watche her mother struggle, she imagined a way she could d better >> kitty grew up believing tha she was gonna marry well, an have household help. >> how would she know such a thing? >> i think this is probabl what my mother had maybe wante for herself and never got. >> kitty was pretty. in 1962, she was crowned mis

oak lawn you should be in show business her mother told her. so kitty studied radio and television at southern illinoi university was that wrapped up in the whole idea of if you're in tha field, you're more likely to meet a successful man -- > yes. absolutely >> in college she met a bundle of ambition named jose menendez he had fled communist cuba a he had fled communist cuba a 16 with bold dreams of strikin it big in business just the kind of man kitty was searching for. and so they married in 1963. >> they were stars, in -- in our family, kitty and jose >> diane hernandez was kitty's niece and lived with kitty and jose for a few years >> i bet you idolized kitty. >> oh i did from the ver beginning. and i was known as the k--daughter kitty never had. >> of course, as the world would come to know, kitty an jose had sons. lyle and erik. >> did they seem to get along? did they like each other-- > oh yeah. absolutely >> very close? >> yeah.

i think erik dependent on lyle a lot. >> erik was quite introverted. >> alan andersen was kitty's nephew he spent a couple summers with the menendez family and bonded with lyle. >> he was a mischievous boy, t say the least. he liked to smile and laugh an giggle oh, he loved to laugh an giggle >> but what the menendez brothers did most -- said alan was practice and practice and practice -- >> jose wanted his kids to be the best, and especially in sports, i notice immediately. >> swimming, soccer, tennis. jose pushed his sons to exce at everything. as his own career skyrocketed. in the'70s, jose was the general manager at hertz, an impressed his sons by bringing the company's famous spokesman home to dinner >> jose was, of course, living the american dream and h wanted his boys to continu that american dream that he ha set forth for not only himself for his family >> in 1986, jose took a jo with carolco pictures in los

angeles. the company that produce megahits like "basic instinct" and the rambo series carolco had just bought a vide distribution company from a ma named noel bloom and they gave jose the job o running it >> so we think 1989 will be tremendous year, we think we will be very happy with th growth of the company. >> that was the year, 1989 when robert rand, then a reporter for the miami herald, went to las vegas to cover a trade show for the home vide business and happened to meet jos menendez >> what was your impression of the guy? >> talked to him for maybe two or three minutes seemed professional, dynamic >> a high powered career a beautiful family and finally the one missin piece of jose's american dream -- the perfect home. jose moved his family from calabasas, then pre-kardashian and a relatively unknown enclave outside of los angeles to a more tony address

joan was with her sister the day the realtor called kitty >> they had accepted jose' offer, and kitty, you got your zip code and that made her so happy >> uh-huh. absolutely >> 722 north elm drive a six-bedroo mediterranean-style home swimming pool. guest house. tennis court elton john once lived in thi very house so did a saudi prince, and eve prince himself by august 1989, jose had truly made it. now, to ensure his sons did, too. by then lyle was a student a princeton. younger brother erik was going to ucla in the fall. so perfect so why did diane feel this way >> i said, "well, i know thi sounds crazy but unless i am crazy somebody who's really close to me i gonna die. and it's gonna be horrible." >> horrible?

that it certainly was. >> someone killed my parents >> uh, were they shot? >> yes >> when we come back - something chilling in the den. >> the first thing i noticed was jose menendez seated on th couch. >> it was grotesque, wha happened >> questions from the very beginning. >> we didn't see any shotgun shells >> what did that say to you? >> somebody collected th shotgun shells, somebody tha didn't want fingerprints on th shotgun shells when "dateline" continues. when "dateline" continues. d-19: could it be right for you? if you have a high risk factor, like being over 65, heart disease, diabetes, asthma,... or smoking... ...and you test positive, don't wait-ask your provider about oral treatment right away.

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>> it was august 20th, 1989. just before midnight, a 91 operator picked up a call from an apparently hysterical young man. his name was lyle menendez >> someone killed my parents >> ah. were they shot >> yes >> they were shot? >> yes >> what happened

>> who was the person that was shot >> my mom and my dad >> your mom and dad? >> my mom and dad. >> okay, hold on second. >> les zoeller was a detective back then. one of a grand total of tw detectives in the beverly hill police department who worked homicides. >> how many murders occurred i beverly hills in those days? >> in those days, approximatel two a year >> detective zoeller was aslee that august night when his bos called >> and he said, "come on in, we've had a murder." and i asked him for some information and he gave me the address of 722 north elm >> zoeller drove to the mansion, walked inside. >> it was eerily quiet and when i went into the den library, the first thing i noticed was jose menende seated on the couch.

he was slumped to one side, hi head was to the one side >> it was bad. very bad >> i could immediately tel that his face was disfigured from the shotgun blast that he took to the back of the head he was wearing shorts. and he had a shotgun blast t his thigh, blood soaked all th way down to the white couch. and then i noticed his wife, kitty, at his feet on the floo -- >> she was curled into fetal position and, like her husband had been shot many times, several times near her knee. and, most horribly, kitty wa shot point blank in the face >> shotgun killings are very messy. and there were brains and bloo everywhere >> back then, pamela bozanic was an l.a county prosecutor in the organized crime unit but nothing prepared her for this jose and kitty had been riddle with 15 shots. one image in particular live with her still

>> there was a contact wound o kitty menendez's face. it blew out her eye. i mean, it was grotesque, what happened to her. >> to investigators, i appeared jose and kitty ha been relaxing in the den an empty bowl of cream and berries and erik's ucl paperwork were on the coffee table. the television set was on. there was no indication of a break-in but something did stand out to detective zoeller. >> we didn't see any shotgun shells >> what did that say to you? >> somebody collected th shotgun shells >> but who does a thing like that, if they've got a messy crime scene of that sort >> somebody that didn't want fingerprints on the shotgu shells, is the only thing could think of >> while investigators examine the crime scene, lyle menendez then 21, and erik, 18, went to the station to speak to police >> the brothers said they were in and out throughout the day. and then as evening approached they decided that they wante to go to the movies.

they wanted to see a james bon movie. but it was sold out. so they saw the batman movie which they had both seen before so they decided to see tha again. >> curious >> after the movie, they tol detectives, they'd planned t meet a friend for a drink at the cheesecake factory, bu they had to go back to the house to pick up erik's fake i.d. and when they walked in, the said, they saw a haze in the air, smelled gun powder smoke, went into the den, and the dialed 911 >> someone killed my parents >> the news spread quickly >> i got a phone call from m brother. and i remember putting the phone down on the table. and walking around the house screaming. >> reporter robert rand's phon also rang. it was a friend who ha attended the las vegas trade show with him 10 days earlier. >> the friend had said, "hey you remember that guy, jos menendez you know, that you met briefly last week? " and i said, "sure. and he said, "well, he and his

wife were blown away last nigh in beverly hills." >> now that, thought rand, was a story tailor made for th miami community he was writing for. a rags to riches story, capped by murder. he worked the phones and soo met up with jose's sister wh told him -- >> you know, the family was so close. they were loving they did everything together she said, "you have to interview erik and lyle. and i said, "of course i wanna interview erik and lyle. >> as he would find, getting t the brothers was not so easy but then, they'd just lost their parents. >> lyle and erik menendez were the grieving sons. >> alan abrahamson is journalism professor at usc. back in 1989, he was a reporte for the la times >> nobody quite knew who had - who had killed the parents was it because of jose's position in business had he been taken out by the mob? >> after all, both jose an kitty had been shot in the knees. a mafia signature, perhaps

and then there was the company jose was running "live entertainment" distributed all kinds of movies, including children's movies. but it got its start in porn >> a lot of pornography is organized crime backed 'cause it's a great way to mak a lotta money in a industr that's not, you know, very wel regarded >> and there was actually homicide in the valley a few weeks before they were murdered and jose mentioned to his sons "you know, this is wha happens. this guy was into th pornography business and he was murdered. >> plus, jose was known to b aggressive when it came to business and investigators found tw rifles in his bedroom. was jose worried someone might come after him >> could lyle and erik be next the brothers hired bodyguards. and in an interview, eri menendez voiced his suspicion. >> uh, noel bloom sounds lik the most logical possibility

if he did kill them, i kno they hated each other. >> noel bloom. the founder of the company jos was running and an unapologeti distributor of adult entertainment. the menendez boys were not alone in their suspicion about noel bloom >> coming up -- rivals at th office was that a motive for murder >> you didn't kill jos menendez >> absolutely not. >> noel bloom speaks then -- and now. >> were you sorta day-by-day waiting to be taken and put in handcuffs? >> yes >> when dateline continues fun dining creating your own ultimate feast... ...is the ultimate form of shell-fish-pression. create your own ultimate feast is here. choose 4 of 10, like new cheddar bay shrimp. welcome to fun dining. where can you go for family fun... and do your holiday shopping all-in-one?

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oooh. good night. [ cheering ] you're still here? ok, one more number. puss in boots. only in theater, rated pg. >> kitty menendez shot thi home video in august 1989, capturing images of what looke like a happy family. >> okay, wave goodbye everybod -- >> 12 days later, kitty and her husband's murders were front-page news. >> it was a big story from the get-go because it happened i beverly hills, california. >> the big story became a bi problem for carolco pictures >> the company was getting beaten up in the media because all the media stories were "this was a mafia hit, somehow related to shady dealings that this company was doing." >> carolco hired a prominent publicist to help calm the media storm.

sylvester stallone spoke warml of jose. >> he was a true cornerstone o this company, which i love >> and jose's memorial service was held at the directors guil of america headquarters on sunset boulevard all of which might have le people to believe he was a beloved hollywood insider. >> but the reality was jos menendez was really not know in the hollywood community a all. and most of the people at this memorial probably had neve heard of him >> lyle and erik arrived lat to the service in a chauffeure limousine. they'd spent the night befor in the ultra chic hote bel-air. >> how'd they'd behave whe they were there? >> lyle menendez was -- very cool, calm and collected >> kitty's sister joan was a the memorial too and heard something disturbing about jose >> several men that worked wit jose talked to me at tha memorial service and told me how he loved to humiliate othe

men. >> pretty shocking thing t hear at somebody's memoria service, isn't it? >> uh-huh. yeah not very memorial. >> so, jose had made enemies the brothers confirmed it. and knew where to point th finger >> they indicated that their father was involved in -- in some -- shady business contacts and one in particular was gentleman by the name of noe bloom -- >> that name again, noel bloom had founded the company that became known as "live entertainment" and the wound up working uncomfortably with jose. >> they bickered about a lotta things >> well, mostly it was because of the pornography jose didn't like that at all >> did it seem to you that there was a motive there >> possible. >> we found this tape of bloom deep in the nbc archives >> you didn't kill jos menendez >> absolutely not. >> and wondered what he had to say today. >> what are you doin'wit yourself now >> well, i'm retired kinda like forced retirement - >> oh, but your resume your resume is special -- >> m resume -- could scare people >> noel bloom, known for years to law enforcement authorities

as a kingpin in the porn trade with alleged ties to east coas mobsters >> why would they say you were involved with organized crime? >> because people had perception that people in th adult business were in organized crime, which i totally not true at least i had -- i wasn't - >> were some of the people who you associated with members -- >> there was a couple of companies back in new york tha i believe was. >> in the 1970's bloom was one of the biggest porn producer and distributors in then h made an unlikely turn to distributing children' programming "care bears, " for example. >> along the way, yo encountered this guy, jose menendez >> unfortunately >> what was he like in the office

>> jose could be very sweet. smile at you even charming. >> uh-huh? >> but he was very ruthless. he would scream at people. if he fired somebody in hi office and fired'em, eve though he had no business doin so you would hear him laughing like it was a big joke >> jose fought with his ow family, too, said noel bloom >> i -- i met kitty severa times. she was sometimes goin'to th -- into his office, and -- you know, yellin'and screamin'an hollering. i mean, really loud. >> oh, so they'd argue a lot >> oh, yeah. a lot. and i think a lot of it wa about the kids >> what was your impression of them >> they were kinda quiet they weren't that friendly, bu it seemed like they were a bit troubled and you know, i know they were afraid of him. >> afraid of their father, jose >> i saw him just stare them down a couple of times -- >> but after jose was murdered, lyle and erik seemed to be afraid of noel bloom they told police they though bloom may have killed thei parents and might want to kill them, too. bloom had been arrested before

on obscenity charges, but neve convicted. still, with the brothers'publi accusations. he was nervous >> were you sorta day-by-day waiting for somebody to call you -- >> oh, yes -- >> be taken and put in handcuffs and -- >> yes. >> oh, the cops would be calling and the investigatio would take a turn one that n one expected coming up. new questions about the case and about the grieving sons. >> lyle, the way he wa spending money was ver strange. >> you begin to see a patter here and begin to think of greed. when "dateline" continues. [ music playing ] when we first arrived at st. jude, it was just claire and i. she was still recovering from her brain surgery. and side effects of that surgery meant that she had to relearn how to walk and how to speak. ♪♪

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groups appeared to be fighting before the shooting. a massive winter storm i causing chaos across the u.s.. holiday travelers deal wit delays and cancellations more than 200 million people are under some form of whether warning or advisory. the brutal cold is expected to continue through the holiday weekend for much of the easter u.s. now, back to dateline. >> in the weeks after th menendez murders one name, one whispered suspicion, noe bloom. >> i got a call from beverly hills police department. they wanted to meet with me an ask me a few questions and i said, "i've been waiting. >> that meeting, it turned out was about all it took. >> he was very cooperative we couldn't determine that h had a motive at all. >> so noel bloom was no longer a suspect. and the rumored mafi connection to the crime? "not a chance", said prosecuto

pam bozanich >> the number of shots would tell you that it wasn't organized crime hit. >> why do you say that >> because they were tor apart. if--if you think about what th media portrays or--or hollywoo portrays as a mob hit, it woul be >> it's just a little hole i the back of the head >> like, a.22 or a.38 to the back of the head >> but the kneecappings, the missing shell casings to investigators those were signs it was staged to look like a mob hit. hours after the murders, detective zoeller looked at th scene, puzzled and right around that time lyle showed up at the house. >> he said, "we wanna get ou tennis equipment." and i said, "well, where i that? " he said, "it's in th library where my parents wer murdered." >> what was their demeanor >> he was matter of fact and didn't seem very upset to me >> then zoeller learne something very odd lyle and erik went to the bank

days after the murders, lookin for jose's safety deposit box, trying to find the family will did that surprise you, tha they would do it so soon >> oh, definitely. >> so why would the brothers worry about the will zoeller learned that jose ha threatened to disinherit them. lyle had been caught cheatin at princeton erik had fought with his fathe over tennis. but there was a bigger issue too. >> well, in the first hous they took the whole safe the second house, they got int the safe >> lyle and erik had burglarized the homes of their friends'wealthy parents. one of the burglaries was in the exclusive community of hidden hills had you ever heard of such a thing before >> no. it was just because "we coul do it. "look what we can do." >> at the time, jose hired a prominent criminal attorney wh arranged for the younger brother, erik, to take the fall >> because he was a minor, knowing that erik probably

wouldn't get any jail time and part of the disposition wa that he contact a therapist. in comes jerry oziel >> dr. jerome oziel, you'll want to remember that name a beverly hills psychologist who specialized in phobias and sex therapy -- so, therapy and no jail time for the burglaries but were they written out of the will they finally did get hold of it and discovered jose hadn't disinherited them after all. so now they stood to inherit the family's 14 million dollar estate and what the brothers did afte the murders shocked the whol country. >> they were just spending spending, spending >> three rolex watches a private tennis coach for eri -- a porsche -- lyle eve bought a chicken wings restaurant >> i love to shop. but i think that i might eve wait a day or two. >> lyle went to visit hi cousin alan in chicago after the murders.

>> he ordered some of the most expensive shirts i've ever see in my life he ordered some jewelry, ordered these shoes--these expensive shoes. and i was like, "wow." the way he was spending money, for me, was very strange >> but to other relatives, the spending was just lyle and eri doing what they always did "lyle was grieving", sai cousin diane >> people would ask, you know? people were like, "what's he doing? " and i would defend hi and say, "well, everybod reacts differently whe somebody dies. this is just his way of coping i guess. >> their casual behavior after the murders, the hunt for th will, the spending spree, none of it was criminal but it certainly caught th attention of the prosecutor. >> you begin to see a patter here and you begin to think of greed. >> but to police, lyle and eri kept repeating the same stor they told the cops the night o the murders. they had no idea what happened >> were they believable in those conversations that you recall >> yes

>> so they didn't seem to be lying or obfuscating or-- >> no they answered our question willingly. >> so maybe they were spoiled, and self-centered. but, it was a long way fro that to killing their parents. except another interview was coming, one that would revea so much more coming up. >> i've never seen my da helpless >> an emotional erick menendez speaks out about his father, his family and a killer script >> that story was about a youn man who murders his parents an inherits 157 million dollars inherits 157 million dollars ♪♪ for skin as alive as you are... don't settle for silver. harness the power of 7 moisturizers & 3 vitamins to smooth, heal, and moisturize your dry skin. gold bond. champion your skin. if you think all pads are exactly the same... think again.

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the menendez story hard. he was writing a biography o jose menendez, but he couldn't complete it without talking to two people jose's sons, lyle and erik the brothers had blown him off for several weeks. but finally, on october 20th 1989, exactly two months after the murders, rand got his shot >> i showed up at the menendez mansion at 3:00 in the afternoon. and -- a young woman in he twenties answered the door and she said, "oh erik and lyle ar out playing tennis th -- they'll be back at som point. >> the woman invited rand in t tour the house >> and immediately in front of me is the room

the room where jose and kitt menendez were killed and -- i ha -- i had a chill u my spine i felt creeped out >> he waited they arrived, eventually >> erik and lyle came bouncing in the house wearing tenni whites and looking tan and they were laughing and joking and i'm as -- >> as if nothing had happened >> -- as if nothing ha happened and i'm kind of torn up inside i'm just thinking to myself, " wouldn't be anywhere near this house if my parents had been killed here. >> rand pulled out his tap recorder and notepad, but lyle stopped him. >> lyle menendez said, "hang on, " he said, "we don't wanna d the interview today. we'd just like to meet you and get to know you. >> the brothers had flaked o rand before. he was annoyed, but obliged. they chatted informally. and made plans to meet later that weekend for an official interview. but when rand arrived -- > lyle had left for new york on red-eye the night before he had a problem with hi chicken wing restaurant in - princeton.

>> erik, however, was home and this time he was willing t talk >> erik was emotionall appropriate. he -- he would cry at times. and he was telling reall lovely stories about how wonderful his parents were >> just an incredible man. and uh, people were afraid o him. people were afraid of hi because they would walk in the room and know that this man wa more powerful. this man was more intelligen -- >> erik said his father wanted to get into politics. >> he was going to becom senator of florida, and then h was gonna'spend his life makin cuba a territory of the united states >> now, with his father's death, erik said he and his brother wanted to fulfill his father's dream. >> i wanna become senator of florida and my -- my brother wants to become president of the united states. >> then the mood shifted and erik described what he saw whe he walked into the family de on august 20th >> they weren't real

>> no. >> they -- wax -- they looke like wax it's something that -- i'v never seen my dad helpless you know, i think that possibl if lyle and i would've bee home, if we would've been able to do something about it maybe uh, maybe my dad would b alive. i definitely would give my lif for my dad's >> and, this was curious, erik also told rand about a screenplay he had writte called "friends. >> that story was about a youn man who murders his parents an inherits $157 million. >> fancy that. erik wrote the screenplay with a close friend of his name craig cignarelli when detective zoeller interviewed craig, he learne that craig and erik ofte fantasized about committing th perfect crime. which, in their screenplay became the story of a ma killing his parents and evadin police >> they thought about th perfect crime.

and here their parents are murdered we don't have a suspect yet. it's looking like a perfec crime to me, at that point >> zoeller began to wonder i erik's fantasy could be playin out in reality and then craig told zoelle about his visit to the menende house after the murders. >> erik said, "do you wann know what happened? " and he described shooting the parents and then he summed it all by saying, "it could happen." and craig thought about it and he says, "well, is h saying that's what he thinks happened here at the house or did they actually commit th crime? " >> strange. as was the story the brother told about discovering their parents'bodies >> the brothers said they sa this haze in the air and som smoke that they smelled. >> like gunpowder smoke or - >> gunpowder smoke but i mean, that dissipate pretty darned quick.

well, the officers got there right after they did and they didn't smell anything >> the gunpowder smoke, an fantasizing about the perfec crime, and the screenplay, and even what might be called confession it all led detective zoeller t start thinking the unthinkable that the brothers had murdered their mom and dad. and he wondered, would eri tell the story of the shooting to craig again this time on tape. >> they decided to wire up craig and go to this restaurant >> but this time, erik wasn' at all talkative >> erik didn't admit anything. but i think his conscience said, "you better not talk too muc about this." >> not that day, anyway. and not to craig cignarelli. but erik did talk, eventually. and what he said would chang everything >> coming up -- >> lyle burs into the room. she heard him say "why did you tell him?! " >> the explosiv secret, hidden until now

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(female announcer) dexcom g6 is the #1 recommended cgm system by doctors and patients. call now to get started. (bright music) >> detective les zoeller had a very disturbing suspicion. that lyle and erik menendez ha shotgunned their parents t death in the den of thei beverly hills mansion. and then one day, he just knew >> was there a particular time when you thought, "okay, yes it's them" >> well, when we got a cal from judalon smyth >> a name he'd never heard before >> what did she have to tell you? >> her whole purpose was t talk about this doctor and how he was her therapist and he was having an affai with her >> not relevant information to a homicide detective

but this was -- >> what was hi first name, dr -- >> dr. jerry oziel. >> doctor oziel, the psychologist erik was sent t after those burglaries two months after the murders judalon smyth said she was wit dr oziel when erik menendez calle to schedule an emergency session. smyth wouldn't talk to us fo this report, but she did bac then and here's what she told us dr oziel said after getting tha call >> well all of a sudden he's saying, you know, "i hope i' not going to hear what i think i'm going to hear. >> smyth told zoeller that dr. oziel was worried about what might happen at the session. and so he asked her to stay in the waiting room of his office while he met with erik o october 31st, 1989 >> she also told zoeller tha from the waiting room, she overheard erik tell dr oziel the very thing investigators had suspected fo months, but couldn't prove

>> erik said that they sho their parents. >> and dr. oziel immediately says, "w need to call your brother an have him come over here righ away." >> lyle menendez, who had been at the elm drive home, passing out candy to trick-or-treaters rushed over to dr. oziel's office >> and lyle burst into the room >> judalon smyth told zoelle she heard lyle confront hi brother. >> and she heard him say, "why did you tell him we're gonna have to kill him now. >> seriously >> yes and erik said, "i can't kill anymore. and he burst in tears and left well, lyle and dr. oziel, more or less, followe him. and lyle got to the elevator and dr oziel said, "am i in danger? " and lyle said, "that's all i can tell you is have a goo life, dr oziel.

and it freaked him out >> what followed was a strange and nervous dance, oziel tol lyle and erik to come back for follow up therapy sessions the brothers, afraid oziel might go to police, agreed during one of those sessions they both confessed to killing their parents. and oziel recorded the conversation judalon smyth learned about th recording and told detectives, who promptly seized the tape just one problem, they weren't allowed to listen to it becaus of doctor/patient privilege. >> how frustrating was that? >> well, it was very frustrating. yeah, a good piece of evidence and i couldn't even listen t it >> even though investigators didn't know whether they'd eve get to play that tape in court they thought they had enough evidence to arrest the brothers >> it was march 8th, 1990. >> detectives arrested josep lyle menendez for the august murders of his mother an father >> erik was playing a tennis

tournament in israel at th time >> erik menendez is bein sought by detectives of this department >> he surrendered to polic three days later >> could you believe it? >> no. no it was absolutely devastating, shocking, just beyond words. >> former l.a. times reporter alan abrahamson >> who would imagine that thes two young men of privilege position and power-to-be could -- could kill their parents. that's -- that's the kinda stuff that shakespeare wrote about. >> and yet, it seemed that's exactly what happened. a few weeks after the arrests, detective zoeller confirme another tip judalon smyth gave them >> judalon said that the gun were purchased at a gun stor in san diego i was lookin'through gun records. and i said, "this is it. >> the name on the sale was an old friend of lyle's fro

princeton. but the friend was not even in california when the guns wer purchased. and he was missing his i.d >> we learned later that lyl had taken the wallet >> it seemed like overwhelming evidence that lyle and eri killed their parents >> two rich kids from beverl hills. greedy murder murdered their ow parents in cold blood. actually hit it. made it look like a mob hit. tried to get away with it. and went on a lavish spendin spree. public judgment came hard an fast >> they were smirking, the were smug. people were not predisposed to think kindly of eric and lyl

menendez >> but media feasted on th story of the rich brothers who killed their parents for the 1 million dollar estate. hard to overstate the public's discussed with those young men on the other side of the country in a new jersey town a few miles from princeton people began comparing memories >> their home at the time was home on a lake >> this is the home where they grew up. a young tennis coach when he met jose and certainly impressed. >> there were two clear side of him the very friendsly out going joking person. the flip side was how driven and controlling he was >> jose engaged bill to teac his son. and watch the lesson but didn't just watch. >> he would physically com onto the tennis court and star givi givi giving instruction while i was there.

it was very strange. very uncomfortable >> only much later he learne jose hired several coaches the 10 year-old was workin hours every day to learn tennis >> he was incredibly quiet >> neighborhood memories about a successful but imposin family >> everyone seemed to look u to them. but not draw closer to them s. l >> a friends and neighbor of the family >> the minute they come into a room they took the air out. >> wow >> and we're all very careful. >> why >> he tended when he drank too much to become very derogatory of other people. >> oh. >> so people didn't want to be

embarrassed by him >> the next target >> you maybe the next target yes. >> did you see examples of that? >> no. >> that house. >> it was like it was covere with a shield. like that was -- >> she wa lisle's ninth grade spanis teacher. >> was he a good student >> he tried to be. he was not particularl talented at the language. >> one she caught him cheating and said, eric cheated too >> i think teachers understood deep down inside what they wer going through. >> being pressured from their parents to perform. to do well >> right >> it seemed to be taking toll she remembers more than once seeing him outside her offic staring. blankly.

>> i wish to this day that i had gotten up and said pleas come in. >> did you talk to kitty o jose >> i didn't reveal anything to them not anything that could ge them in trouble. >> the young boys sh remembered were adults now in serious trouble charged with killing the parents who expected so much from them. their stir of why they did it, had the family and the rest of america speechless >> the battle begins with the powerful new ally standing by the brothers >> how does he walk into the room with a shot begin this kid it doesn't add up. i'm totally puzzled. i'm totally puzzled. oral treat could it be right for you? if you have a high risk factor, like being over 65, heart disease, diabetes, asthma,...

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under arrest for the murders o their parents this the famil mansion in beverly hills >> it was grotesque what happened >> blood soaked. >> i had a chill up my spine >> could you believe it? >> no, it was absolutely devastating just beyond words. >> the question now? what drove them to kill? >> how does he walk into a roo with a shotgun this kid i mean, i'm totally totally, puzzled >> a dark secret was about t come to light. >> i just told him that didn't want to do this >> something horrible is going on in the family >> oh, man, it was gut wrenching. i wanted to bust the door down and say what's going on here >> lyle and erik menendez ha been charged with th unthinkable. murdering their mother and father alicia hertz, their former neighbor and teacher, recalled two young boys, whose parent seemed formidable, even to adults

like many others, said alicia, she was careful around kitty and jose menendez. but there was one episode sh found too disturbing to ignore a dinner party at the menendez home jose told his guests he' brought back a vhs tape from a trip to brazil >> and i have to show you guys this because it's so unique. and so, he puts it in. and i don't remember the name. >> she said the film showe adults engaging in sex acts in front of children. >> and we saw a few seconds of it a few minutes. and we made excuses. a lot of us stood up and sai we have to leave we couldn't stand to see it. to watch >> but jose found this engaging? >> hysterically funny. >> these stories of th menendez family have bee buried for years until, the sons were charged with murder. and she signed on to defen them veteran criminal defense

attorney, leslie abrahamson. known for her brass style with the press. reporter robert rand, who wrot a book on the menendez case, recalled the attorney' passionate devotion to her clients. >> i've never seen anybody wit the power of leslie. watching her in court was like watching great theater >> in this old interview fro our archives, leslie described how her defense strategy began to take shape. >> i am hearing a lot of ver negative and -- and at least heavily psychologically abusiv things but it's not answerin what's wrong with this kid because he's incredibly sweet. how does he walk into a room with a shotgun this kid and it doesn't add up. i mean, i'm totally, totally puzzled. and that's when i bring in vicar y. >> then, a forensi psychologist and a graduate of harvard law school agreed to meet with the brothers in jail

he knew, going in, polic believed they killed their parents for money. >> but based upon the dozens o paracide cases i had worked on in the past, that's not th exception, that's the rule the rule is somethin horrible's going on in the family >> and something was going o in the menendez family something very secret. but, what was it coming up. new evidence seen on television, for the first time a letter from lyle to erik hinting at the horrors in that house. >> you cannot go down the hall when jose is with his kids >> kitty didn't go down th hall, either >> no. no uh-uh. >> oh, man, it was gut wrenching. just the screams and the, daddy, don't hit me daddy, don't you know, that kind of stuff >> when "dateline" continues >> when "dateline" continues

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california's highest court >> we sat around, for a couple years, waiting for the supreme court to rule. >> during which, the menende brothers resided at the men' central jail where, soon after their arrest, lyle slipped his brother a letter "dateline" obtained a copy it had never been broadcast, before in it, lyle wrote about thei father and the murders he bore two brilliant children only two they carry his name and hi pride. we did not do anything for the money. he went on we, alone, know the truth. we, alone, know the secrets of our family's past.

i do not look forward to broadcasting them around the country. i pray that it never has t happen secrets? at this point, even attorney leslie abramson knew none of them lyle and erik revealed nothing not to abramson, and not to th forensic psychiatrist she hired, william vicary >> what struck me, in that initial interview, was how together the older brother lyle, was. i mean, he was articulate. he made good eye contact he had very thoughtful organized answers. >> erik, on the other hand seemed broken. >> he, very rarely, made eye contact. he was biting his finger nails so, i was thinking, in my head boy, i sure hope i get to work with the older brother and not the younger brother becaus this is going to be a piece of cake with the older brother. >> hnot wrong he was after a few sessions with lyle dr vicary hit a wall, and moved o to eric, who, month after month,

seemed to stick to a kind of script about his wonderful father, his loving family. >> and the minute somethin would leak out about, maybe, things weren't so wonderful in the family he would start crying. and he would, kind of, dissolv and -- and -- and whimper an he just wouldn't go an further. >> vicary put erik o anti-depressants and slowly, a trust began to form >> as the months rolled by, got more and more pieces o information and it got worse and worse and worse, as to wha was going on in this family. until finally, the dam broke >> erik and lyle's cousin ha lived with the menendez family and knew the public didn't understand >> they just knew that, okay we got these rich kids boom shot their parents

now, they're -- think they multimillionaires. well, that's not the case. >> alan had begun thinking bac to some very disturbing things he had witnessed at th menendez house as had cousin, diane hernandez >> he would take their heads and push them under water, until they started panicking he would let them up again >> jose's way of teaching hi quite young boys to swim >> what did kitty seem to thin about it >> i mean, if jose did it or said it, there was n questioning about it absolutely, none >> not boy the boys, not b kitty. >> she became like his right-hand man in enforcin things >> including, what diane and alan came to know as the single-most important rule i the menendez host. >> you cannot go down the hall when jose is with his kids >> kitty didn't go down th hall, either >> no. no huh-uh >> but they did hear things. >> i've heard them being w whipped. oh, man, it was gut wrenching.

just the screams you know, daddy, don't hit me. daddy, don't that kind of stuff >> to the defense, began t explain what those young men did to their parents but how do you get fro disturbing stories to a double murder the brother's lawyers began to connect the dots their defense would be uniqu and daring coming up. the prosecution versus the defense. the fireworks were about t begin. >> i felt that the brother were evil, but not as bad as she was. >> when "dateline" continues >> when "dateline" continues well, thank goodness. it's time for the "good news of the week." and, boy, do we need it. [ chuckles ] well, this safe driver saved money with the snapshot app from progressive. -how do you feel? -um, good? he's better than good. he got rewarded for driving safe and driving less.

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master of winter storm i causing chaos across the u.s., as holiday travelers deal with cancellations. more than 200 million people are under some sort of whether

warning or advisory. wind chill alerts extending al the way to south florida, th brutal cold is expected to continue through the holiday weekend for much of the easter part of the u.s. whiteout conditions in ohio ar believed to have caused th deadly pileup involving at least 46 vehicles. the safe highway patrol says several people were killed now, bactok dateline. even before the menendez brothers went on trial, th defense scored a big victory the california supreme court ruled that the confession tape made by dr azil could not be presented as evidence of course, the defense had already conceded that lyle and erik killed their parents. nearly four years after th murders, july 1993, if convicted here, lyle and eri could face the death penalty their judge was stanle wiseberg, who had alread presided over high-profile cases. notably, the rodney king beating case, whose result

sparked the l.a. riots. judge wiseberg ruled that each brother would have his own jury and -- >> the electronic media that wants access to thi courtroom. >> he allowed cameras in the courtroom. >> the idea that there was a camera in a courtroom in california was so new, s novel. >> reporter alan abrahamson, once an attorney himself covered the trial for the l.a. times. >> you weren't just playing to the jury you were playing to all of america. >> the judge's decision turned a local l.a. story into an internationa sensation. how big was it the menendez trial was the cas that put an entire network court tv, on the broadcast landscape. prosecutor pam bazanich knew all of america was watching he every move >> how did you feel as you prepared to make your openin statement? >> as i walked down the hallway,

all the cameras were there and you know, i just threw up. because i -- i thought, oh god. you know, this is really stressful. >> what's more, the prosecutor was going against two fierce opponents. leslie abramson, defending eric and jill lansing, defendin lyle >> these are three very smart, strong women >> definitely. >> engaged against each other, over these boys. >> yes >> i say boys but they weren't really boys, were they >> they weren't boys, at all in fact, that's what the defense wanted everybody t hear was boys and these poor boys these orphans. >> orphans an impression the defense trie to play up leslie abramson wrapped he arms around their shoulders. had them trade their dappe suits for preppy sweaters. >> everything that jill lansin and leslie abramson wa deliberate and calculated. >> she steeled herself determined not to let th optics distract the jury >> based upon this evidence, i will become apparent that this

murder was unlawful, unjustified, and wholl premeditated >> in basic english, the prosecution's case was this. just the facts, ma'am. >> fact number one lyle and erik driving down t san diego two days before th murders, to buy shotguns and with a stolen i.d. >> why are you using the fak i.d. cause you know you're going to be using the gun to do something you shouldn't be doing. that is evidence of intent >> after the murders, th prosecution showed the brother lied to the police, for months starting from the very momen lyle called 911. >> someone killed my parents >> and they did it all for the family fortune, the state said remember, lyle and erik ha searched for the will, jus days after their parents'murders. and went on a lavish multi-state spending spree >> they were very aggressive about spending money, as soo as possible. >> yeah. >> which i thought was ver

strange. >> ie prosecutor, first-degree murder, and they did it for th money. >> at the end of the prosecution case, i was like okay these -- these two brothers ar so guilty, it's not even funny >> but then, there was her >> ms. abramson for the defense >> thank you >> we had a joke investigator, myself, and my co---co-counsel, lester, the joke was you have a gun, you have two bullets you go in the courtroom. who do you shoot okay so, both the guys say they would shoot lyle and erik. and i -- my thing was i'm goin to shoot leslie twice. i felt that the brothers wer evil but not as bad as she was >> abramson had a reputation for doing whatever it took >> you guys haven't been fai to these boys, and you're no fair to them now >> and she had an unusua strategy for defending the brothers a law known as imperfect self-defense >> that is to say, under all the circumstances, it wa reasonable to the person t think that they were acting in

self-defense but the reality is that, tha wasn't the case, at all. >> in other words, an honest but unreasonable belief that one's life is in danger. the defense argued that th brothers weren't spoiled, they were damaged subject to years of abuse that made the decision to kill thei parents seem, to them, like an act of self-defense agains imminent danger. if the jury agreed, th menendez brothers would ge manslaughter, instead of murder >> our witnesses will paint portrait of jose and mar louise menendez, as parents, that will make understandabl to you, how they could hav died at the hands of their children what they did to their childre to bring this about. >> the parents were as much on trial as lyle and erik menende were on trial. and -- and while the prosecution tried to -- to stick to a just-the-facts-ma'a narrative, the defense strateg

was emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion. >> the defense called teachers and coaches and family members to testify about emotional and physical abuse one of them was cousin, alan >> and would you see bruises o the boys after that? >> yes and above their -- above their thigh area where about would b hit. >> and then, cousin, diane took the stand and here came the most explosive issue of the trial diane testified that the abuse jose inflicted on his sons was not just physical, but sexual. >> he and his dad have bee touching each other, and h indicated that it was in his genital area >> and diane told us she observed even more >> three of them would tak showers together lyle was 15 and erik was 12. >> the prosecutor was, to sa the least, skeptical >> if my daughter needed me to lie for her, i'd lie for her i it was a life-and-death thing, of course, you would

if it's your cousin that you grew up with, of course, you would. >> you're pretty sure that the were doing that? >> i'm positive. >> one reason why? >> a relative came do me and said that she felt that th defense was made up. that she'd confronted lyle about it and he said to her that's th way it's going to be >> so, we had to ask did the brothers ask you to li for them >> no. >> did they ask you to, sort of, like shade things or tel certain stories and not othe stories or anything like that? >> huh-uh. huh-uh huh-uh >> the defense contended the abuse was real went on for years. and finally. >> they came to believe that something terrible was about t break loose. >> specifically, that thei parents were going to kill the if they didn't kill thei parents, first mental health experts testifie and said that wa understandable >> erik and lyle menende

purchased the shotguns for their own protection >> it was a high-stake defense. and by far, the most important witnesses would be the brothers, themselves would the jury believe them? would america? >> coming up >> my dad had been molesting me >> i just told him that didn't want to do this and that it hurt me. >> shocking, then. chilling, even now was it the truth when "dateline" continues. when "dateline" continues. ...is the ultimate form of shell-fish-pression. create your own ultimate feast is here. choose 4 of 10, like new cheddar bay shrimp. welcome to fun dining. when a cold comes on strong, knock it out with vicks dayquil severe. just one dose starts to relieve 9 of your worst cold and flu symptoms. to help take you from 9 to none. power through with vicks dayquil severe.

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there was only one relevan question to consider in th menendez murders >> why did these killings occur? >> a question the brothers believed they could answer best no one had ever seen televised

testimony like this, before. >> joseph lyle menendez. >> the brothers testified, i graphic, emotional terms, abou what they said were the darkes secrets of their family. >> between the ages of 6 and 8 did your father have sexua contact with you >> yes we would be in the bathroom, and it would -- he would put m on my knees. and have oral sex with him >> did you want to do this at some point, did he do som

other things to you? >> he'd rape me. >> did you ask him not to? >> yes i just told him that i didn' want to do this. and that it hurt me. and he said that he didn't mea to hurt me and he loved me >> what did he tell you abou telling people >> he just said that it was ou secret that bad things would happen t me, if i told anybody. >> lyle testified his father stopped abusing him when h turned 8 but he said, for years, he had no idea his brother was victim, too.

then, erik took the stand. >> he would me give -- ora sex. and he would stick the needles or the tacks into my thighs as he was doing this. >> erik testified that when he refused to cooperate with hi father's demands >> he came back with the knife he put it on my neck he said, i should kill you and next time, i will. >> reaction to the brothers'testimony was, to say the least, polarized >> you either totally believed that the brothers had been abused or thought the whole thing was a complete crock of you know what >> the brother's explosive claims were just the lead-up the backstory to what really prompted the murders >> what do you believe was the originating cause of you and your brother, ultimately winding up shooting your parents? >> me telling lyle that -- > you telling lyle what?

was it you telling lyle abou something that was happening >> my dad. my dad had been molesting me >> and had been right up until the murders, erik said and he testified that hi mother was aware of it all >> she says, i know, i'v always known what do you think, i'm stupid? >> lyle says he confronted his father several days before the murders. >> i told him i would tell everybody everything about him i would tell the police, and that i would tell the family >> then, according to lyle, hi father said something that sounded like a threat. >> he said, we all make choice in life, son erik made his. you've made yours. i thought we were in danger. >> and so, the brothers drov down to san diego to buy the shotguns for protection, the said two days later, said lyle, h

and his father had another argument about the abuse after which, lyle said his parents went into the den an shut the door. and? >> i thought they were going ahead with their plan to kil us >> remember, jose and kitt kept two rifles in the house >> so, what did you do >> i ran upstairs to tell my brother that it was happenin now. >> they ran out to the car loaded their guns, and burst through the den door >> i was just firing as i went into the room. i just started firing. >> in what direction >> in front of me. >> what was in front of you? >> my parents. >> at some point, was your gun empty? >> yes i could see somebody moving. seemed like moving, in the direction of where my brothe should be. >> lyle said he returned to th car, reloaded, and ran bac into the house >> and what did you do, afte you reloaded

>> i ran around, shot my mom >> so, did they act while in the mistaken belief they wer defending their own lives? yes, said the defense. a classic case of imperfec self-defense perfect nonsense, said the prosecutor she grilled lyle o cross-examination. >> when you put the shotgun up against her left cheek and you pulled the trigger, did yo love your mother >> yes >> and was that an act of love mr menendez >> it was confusion, fear. >> you were afraid of her, a that point >> they slaughtered thei mother, in a way that was so cruel, she got up to run and they went out and they reloade and they put the gun up to her cheek and blew her brains out.

i'm sorry. that is the height of cruelty. >> what's more, observed reporter alan abrahamson >> let's count how many second it might take to go out to the walk walk walk walk grab the shotgun shell put the shotgun shell in run back in. remember, time is ticking. time is ticking. you put the barrel of that shotgun against her cheek an you pull that is intent no doubt about it. >> the prosecution believed th brothers were flat-out lying about the abuse and the events leading up to the murders. and, as it turned out, their testimony gave the state a big opening. >> they offered their mental state, as a defense. and when you offer your mental state as a defense, you have waived your psychiatric patien privilege. >> remember that by testifying, the brothers ha put their mental state o

center stage, meaning the tape was now fair game. >> the defense played the tape to take the sting out active >> what erik and i did took courage beyond belief. >> detective zoller, remember, had never heard the tape befor and he was dumbfounded this was supposedly a candid confession tape but on it, the brothers never once mentione the issue that was now the ver core of their defense. >> why did you ever murder you parents? oh, because they were sexually molesting us that never came out. why wouldn't he tell his therapist? >> big deal? the prosecution thought so but, by then, the jury had already heard many hours o tearful testimony about abuse. and that is when, in decembe 1993, they retired to consider a verdict. >> we made a mistake, right of the bat. >> hazel thornton was on eri k's jury >> we took a show of hands a to what level of guilt w thought they were.

and it became immediate that i was men against women, murde versus manslaughter. >> the main issue, said hazel, was the brothers'story o abuse. the women believed them. the men did not. >> did discussions get heated? >> oh, yes the public thinks that the women were emotional in th trial. it was the men who wer emotional. they pounded their fists on th table. they called us names they yelled at us. >> those tumultuou deliberations carried on int the new year and then, a massive, 6.7 earthquake shook souther california the backdrop against which the juries would deliver a decisio that shocked the world coming up. o.j. simpson. that explosive case is about t cast a shadow over this one. when "dateline" continues. when "dateline" continues.

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two juries, one result

>> therefore, i find that th jury is hopelessly deadlocked. and the court declares a mistrial >> the juries couldn't make up their minds. nearly half of them, on each panel, voted for manslaughter. da garcetti vowed to retry the case >> we have an ethical, professional, and mora responsibility to go forward with this case as first-degree murder case >> but, before that second trial could begin, oj happened and suddenly, the stakes wer even bigger. >> when o.j. simpson went home, at the en of his trial, it was very hard in the da's office we were, you know, nationall considered to be, kind of, losers >> the second menendez trial began just eight days afte o.j.'s acquittal, with judge wiseberg presiding, again. the same judge the same case. but this time, the trial was fundamentally different. >> the first, major ruling

judge weissberg made was no tv camera in the courtroom. >> this time, one jury for bot brothers judge weissburg also scale back testimony about the brothers'physical and sexual abuse. cousin, diane, for example, wa able to testify, just not abou lyle telling her that hi father was molesting him one reason that couldn't com in was because, this tim around, lyle didn't take the stand to lay the foundatio about abuse, in the firs place. >> in between the two trials there were allegations that he was asking people to fabricate testimony. >> letters surfaced after th first trial, in which lyle was alleged to have encouraged people to lie for the defense. >> so, the defense decided the couldn't put him on the witnes stand. so, erik menendez had to carry the ball for both brothers and he was a good witness. but he was not as strong a lyle menendez had been if at the fir trial. >> and that expert testimony about the impact of the abus

on the brothers'state of mind. judge weissburg severely limited the number of expert because he felt their testimon was repetitive one not allowed to testify was dr vicary >> i was shocked i said, well, they've got th defense. i mean, there is no defens without that >> that specific ruling was, i large part, due to the objections raised by the new prosecutor leading the people' case deputy da david koenn. >> the approach that the prosecutor took was to attack, at every -- at every turn an not give any free passes there >> andrew wolfberg is a lawyer today. back then, he was the youngest member of the menendez retry jury >> this was a family that wa win at all costs the ends justify the means to say that their parents ha abused them was almost like th

ends justified the means let's make up this story about abuse. >> but one thing jurors figure was not made up was that confession tape. this time, the prosecution got to use that wildcard the way they wanted to, as their smoking gun. and they highlighted a section where the brothers seemed to have no remorse about what the had done >> you miss just having thes people around? >> i miss not having my do around >> that really just was like a punch in the gut >> and then, just before the jury went out, judge weissburg's last ruling. and quite possibly, the most important one of all >> the jurors would not be allowed to consider an imperfect self-defense >> judge weisberg basing his decision on a california supreme court ruling that came down after the first menende trial said imperfect self-defense didn't appl because the brothers initiated the confrontation with their parents.

>> do you think, in retrospect had you been offered imperfect self-defense, that you might have, maybe, started in different place? or come to a different conclusion >> i'm pretty confident that w would not have because w literally started from first-degree murder. and when every element was satisfied, we were done. >> this time around, the deliberations were quicker more congenial and certain. >> the verdict is guilty on al counts with specia circumstances. >> guilty of first-degre murder but the fates of lyle and erik menendez were not the only headlines. more came in the penalty phase dr vicary finally got to testif and, under oath, he had to admit something. >> the drama involves this man defense psychiatrist, willia vicary, who has disclosed that he deleted dozens of portion of his notes because, quote, leslie abramson told me this has to come out. >> what did it feel like to be you, in that particula circumstance of your life? >> well, it was very traumatic

>> traumatic, indeed the doctor said leslie abramso asked him to delete notes sh felt could be viewed a evidence of premeditation. and reluctantly, he said, he agreed the california medical board punished vicary. 34 months probation. abramson disputed vicary's version of events and, after a investigation, the state bar years later, cited insufficien evidence of vielgdss aolations closed her case. in the end, all the efforts di not spare the menendez brother from a life sentence decades later, that question whether the second trial was fair, is still being debated >> it's a tale of two trials the trials couldn't have bee more different >> cliff gardener was th attorney appointed to handle lyle's appeal. >> so, it was sort of one-two-three punch. no source evidence, no exper testimony, and then your defense doesn't go to the jury >> but it was the same judge i both trials. >> it was the same judge

>> so, what's explanation fo the difference >> it's -- it's a very goo question i don't have an answer to it >> in this audio of lyle's federal appeal hearing, a judg also questioned why so many ke rulings changed in trial numbe two. >> i find it a littl distasteful when the state doesn't succeed in convictin somebody under one set of rules, it will change the rules dramatically >> grounds to vacate their convictions? and what did the brothers have to say, all these years later? we'll ask lyle menendez, next. coming up. >> the outside world saw wha they thought was evidence of premeditation. >> i'd have to say that's no really entirely accurate >> when "dateline" continues

>> in 2005, after years of failed appeals, the menendez

brothers'case went to th federal court. it was their last chance the court denied it. maintaining the state cour made reasonable rulings, i light of the facts, and did no violate federal law. lyle menendez was 49 years old and ithad spent nearly half hi life in prison when he agree to talk to us. >> hello >> hello >> so, here we are >> we spoke with lyle menendez for more than two hours. he was confident, articulate and 28 years later, still, eager to explain why he and hi brother killed their parents he shared intimate details about his childhood, and the betrayal he said he felt whe erik confided to him, days before the murders, that their father was still molesting him >> my father's rapes, i said nothing. and i just feel like part of that pact i had with my dad, and i am keeping this secret and for you to have done thi to my brother, like i kept m

part of that sort of devil's pact and you didn't. you know and my -- my brother, just, yo know, you let your childre wake up in the home of a child molester, every day? >> lyle testified in the trial that, not only did his mothe cover for her husband's actions, she, also, sexually abused him more than a quarter centur after the murders, those feelings of anger and hurt wer still close to the surface >> my mother was very cruel. i -- she just, very much resented my brother and i, fro early, early on. >> as if you and erik had come between her and your father? >> yes, exactly. >> we reminded him of what his prosecutors still say abou him. >> that lyle is still trying t avoid some level o responsibility by blaming abuse, when the abuse doesn't appea to have been so bad, as to -

as to cause a person to do that >> i would trade my entire defense for a 30-second vide of my father raping me i would trade my whole case fo it because i think it's so sanitized and so easy to use the word abuse oh abuse. the abuse wasn't so bad. >> let's get down to the incident, itself when did you and erik decide t kill your parents? >> we didn't decide to do it it was we finally just kind of got overwhelmed with this pani and emotion, and made th decision to run in that room >> the outside world saw wha they thought was evidence of a lot of premeditation using a friend's driver' license to, you know, hide the fact that you went to san dieg and got weapons. >> i'd have to say keep it there is, you know, it's jus not really, entirely accurate. i didn't have a california i.d so there was no way to purchas a weapon, other than my brothe

using this other kid's i.d >> but no disputing it, they did buy the guns, in advance with a stolen i.d. and there was this irrefutable fact the prosecutor pointe out. lyle reloaded and fired that final shot at his mother's face, while she was still alive an crawling, desperately, to ge away >> they saw that as th evidence of premeditation an cruelty. >> i, certainly, in the room wasn't making kind of decision in a chaotic situation lik that but, you know, reflectin afterwards, you know, it haunt me it does haunt me >> the other comment that woul come out was, well, they -- yo know, they could have just gon out and got in the car, an driven away. you know they didn't have to do this. >> a person like my father i not going to allow you to just take something that will rui his life, that he has so carefully crafted. he's not going to. he's not going to. >> no, but -- but -- but you could have left.

that's the point i'm trying to make >> but leave and do what leave and just wait fo yourself to be killed in a parking lot? leave and tell who >> they didn't believe anyon would help them, said lyle not even the police. speaking of which, that 91 call lyle made >> who was the person that was shot >> my mom and my dad >> you were so, you know grief-stricken on that call, and lying at the same time >> yeah. what -- i don't think i was gr grief-stricken i think i was just absolutel broken down with stress. both of us were just in stuchu state of trauma that it just poured through on that call an made it easy to make that call really >> but you could have told them instead, you misled them why that >> well, i -- i mean, i don' think i was going to tell th beverly hills police departmen

that, yeah, i killed m parents. and here's why and they were going to go, okay, go back home so, just self-preservation, at that point >> lyle strongly denied th prosecution's claim that he an erik killed their parents fo money. furthermore, he said he didn't think their case should have even gone to trial >> this case should've bee settled. there are, like, 2 to 30 paraside cases a year. and they are almost all relate to abuse and they are al settled. >> but, lyle, it was different guys like you in places like you live and acts like you committed. i mean, this is -- it's -- thi is a big, splashy deal >> exactly i think that it was very eas because it was beverly hills my father had a lot of money to sort of sell this headlin that these brothers killed for money. >> you haven't seen erik in ho long >> wow

1996 >> hmm getting to be a long time. >> yeah. i miss my brother, every day >> erik menendez declined ou interview request. at the time, he had been married for 18 years lyle, for 14 and remember, erik had sai both he and his brother wanted to pursue careers in politics. in a highly unusual way, they've done it. sort of. erik started a life care and hospice program for inmates at the richard donova correctional facility near san diego. and 500 miles north, lyle wa president of the inmat government at mule creek state prison >> i know it's going to be a suffering for me but i feel like i can find som purpose here >> then, in february 2018, a reunion, of sorts. lyle was moved to the same facility where erik was servin

his sentence they were even housed in the same unit. lyle's former appellat attorney told us, if the brothers can produce new evidence of the abuse, it woul be the first step toward perhaps getting a third trial. even he admits it's a long shot but if it did happen, tw people, surely, wouldn't b there. defense attorney lesli abramson is retired from law and did not respond to our interview request. as for prosecutor pam bozanich >> you really think that thi kind of wrecked your career? >> oh, it did. of course, it did. but it's okay because if i had won the case, i probably never would have been the mother i probably would have gone o some book tour or something an i wouldn't be natalie's mom. and so, it does have a happy ending >> before she left the d.a.' office, pam bozanich too something with her a picture of kitty not this one, no she took one from the crim scene. >> she had blue eyes and one

little, blue eye is open and the other one's gone you probably think i'm a littl crazy to keep that picture but it's a reminder of wha those horrible children did to her. can you imagine giving birth and then giving everything you have to these two kids and the k kill you >> the menendez brothers hav supporters, who hope they ge out of prison, one day when we last checked, lyle's facebook followers numbere more than 8,500. fair to say, pam bozanich is not one of them. >> life in prison for those tw is just fine i hope they live a long, lon life >> i'm craig melvin. >> i'm natalie morales >> this is "dateline. " i knew she would never leave her kids in the middle of a hurricane s