i've still got some questions. in moments, i will be joined b the best possible person answe them all someone who won a pulitzer plies. for her team's investigation o the fields ex presidents finances publishers are rushing to prin out books -- book additions of the januar six committee's final report three of which are already bestsellers on amazon. later in the show, on a talk t the veteran of the watergate investigation. former congresswoman liz holtzman who wrote the forward for one of these folks then where the midterm losse the last straw republicans finally tired of winning a stall trump promis they would be? if they start with him a conversation about what th naming and shaming it on trump might actually mean for th republican party for america politics and for democracy right ahead. velshi starts now. good afternoon that is something i'm not used to saying. it's sunday, december the 25th merry christmas to all of yo

who are celebrating. amal evolve she. we begin this hour wit confirmation of one of the man major lies that the former president told the america people this time regarding his taxes. following a years-long legal and political saga be house weight and mean committee was finally able t secure donald trump's ta returns. they voted to release them t the american public this pas week despite his insistent ally's donald trump's tax returns wer not under audit when he ran fo president the first time the irs did not audit th personal tax returns of donald trump during his first two years in office. this is an important point it's interesting because besid being one of the forme presidents publicly stated reasons for not releasing hi tax returns. the irs has a program mandatin the quote mandatory review o the presidents individual ta returns. that protocol was followed for presidents barack obama and jo biden. dir us did finally follow it own rules of the forme

presidents third year in office 2019 the only year - they started the audit in apri 2019 ironically on the same exact day that the ways and mean committee requested a copy out on trump's tax returns as for what we know from the committee's report in 2015, donald trump just ove $641,000 he. wasn't president yet 2016 and 17. just 1500 bucks total. 750 bucks each year. in 2018, nearly 1 millio dollars in federal taxes on more than $24 million i adjusted gross income. it was a miniscule percentage. in 2019, also good year fo trump. just over $133,000 in taxes. on four point $4 million i income 2020 was a bad year for donald trump in more ways than one. in addition to losing th election trump reported losing four point $8 million. he paid no taxes at all. this is your sign up with ou previous knowledge of donald

trump's tax situation. including some of what he paid or rather didn't pay along with his history o devaluing his properties for taxation purposes while over valuing them for loans and insurance and -- essentially all of what we kno comes from the extraordinary pulitzer prize-winning 201 investigation from the new yor times david barstow suzann craig and russ buettner. from the monumental 2020 follow-up from rescue or suzanna craig and mike mcentire those reports are truly th definition of good journalism. with the 2018 investigatio revealing donald trump's ric history of dodging taxes along with the financial benefits of being born into hi father's real estate empire. and the 2020 report revealin how trump paid no income tax a all for ten years between 2005 and 2020 and the paltry sum of 750 buck in federal income tax in eac of his first two years i office which we now have confirmation of an which are also the same two years whic

we know he somehow wasn' audited. joining me now the aforementioned seize and cry. she's a pulitzer prize-winning investigative reporter with th new york times and nbc new contributor. she truly knows more tha almost anyone about donald trump's taxes. her latest piece in the ne york times times into all th latest developments an revelations. suzanne, good morning to you what's gonna, congratulation on your team for reporting tha helping anybody -- but it was pages and pages i the new york times it was all necessary you had more detail more understanding of don trump's tax situation prior to thi report and anyone else did - what have you learned. it's a mostly corroborated wha you believe to be the case >> it in terms of just his money in the taxes i think it confirms what w knew that he wasn't a great businessman. his businesses lose money. he continued to lose money int the white house. he didn't do well in 2020. the year of the pandemic

i have to say what i kind of found shocking was the information that we learne about the irs than about the audit. i want to clarify somethin because it's so hard to keep track of all of thes investigations that are goin on you're both with his money and with the election an everything else. he actually was under audit in 2015 it wasn't out of that stretche about 2009 we learned that when - this is part of our reportin leading up to the report that if -- when it -- it could cost him to 100 million dollars. we didn't learn a lot more about that audit we think it's stil outstanding. what we did learn a lot abou was this presidential audit an about the irs and shots that they were not really looking a it they had his taxes they were not of-ing him in th way they should. but more importantly i want to read from the report because i don't think consider really better one of the lines of jumped out to me -- they just said that in one o

the cases they were like wel if we -- he has a tax prepared so his taxes are probably accurate. that was one of the lines that came out it was shocking. this is a fellow who has - his company was convicted in federal court of tax fraud the irs is saying he has the tax repaired let's rely on him. another issue came up. there were several pages and looked at some of the issues that are reporting - they went through it in one case, the irs flagged these consulting fees that his daughter got she's a salaried employees she's also getting consultin fees - that could be problematic. they actually so they look t that and they said it' unlikely the issue will be material on most returns and the resources needed t examine would far outweigh the potential benefit. they're just saying look we're not even gonna look at it. it was kind of mind-blowin when we started to look throug

over and over and over issue that we have previously raised in our reporting or othe issues that sort of just didn' want to look at it >> i talked to representativ gwen - she was on the committee and she pointed that out what i wa trying to get to is is that an irs problem is that adult from problem because he had greater complexity to his business affairs than a typical president coming in most presidents have a normal tax return that has normal incom and the irs as well equipped t handle that stuff. what's at the root of this problem that they did not want to get it to the complexity of it in the fact that he attacks prepared - words the feeling there? >> i think we can only speculate. it does feel like they had a audit program that was reall geared towards somebody with a very simple 10:40 tax return they had one person that was sort of in charge of thi looking at trump's taxes this needs a team of people. we have spent six years --

a coup for reporters at th time is try to get our hands around this. it took years to get the tax information that we did. they needed to put a team of professionals on to do it. i don't know if politics playe in it's all sort of speculation but it did feel that they were had -- presidents previously that the had fairly straight for ta returns. it also goes - go big or go home. dawn from comes in his tax returns are so complex and potentially some of the -- some fraudulent timothy that's been flagged here. it was just too much for the irs to get their hands around. sort of crazy when you think about it >> i'm so glad you're here wit us this morning. you and i have known each othe for more than 20 years you are still equipped to be able to understand the stuff that is greet to most people let's just go back to this ide of 2015, he said he can' release his tax returns becaus they're under audit. you're seeing that there was some - mourners with the tax return if not more that we're under audit in 2015.

if you just clarify that for me would that have prevented hi from releasing his tax returns to the public regardless >> two questions there the first one was was he under audit in 2015. could've been for a multitud of reasons the main one stems from some good have been 2009 that he ha been tangling with the irs about. he got a big refund. it was some good automatically was triggered. they rest has been fighting it if it goes against him, he would have to pay it back with interest and potentially penalties. it could be more than 10 million dollars. he was under audit in 2015 it was put on hold as far as w can tell it for the document we have when he became president. that issue does not prevent hi from releasing his tax returns he said for a long time we all heard multiple times over an over - then it's changed because i' under audit. there is nothing preventing hi from then when he steps into office the separate thing it's actually anothe

department then starts doing this audit that is required of presidents that is where we're seeing potentially wasn't handled not only - its really wasn't as robust as it should've been. >> is there any implication of the delay in the what should b the mandatory audit. it's not too - dictated by legislation. it's an irs internal rule or something. is there any implication tha the delay or the mishandling o that was politicized because the commission of the irs wa the guy who had written an opinion informs about the fact that donald trump didn't hav to release this tax returns in that case law became the commission of the arrest i don't know whether there's a connection between those two things >> i don't know either we can only speculate. when you look at this an isolation. it's quite shocking. when you look at it in the totality of everything tha happened during the trum administration it's just another not shocking thing to me i just don't know. it was so chaotic. somebody could've put thei thumb on the scale maybe not.

you also do see very much. i just think this irs wasn't equipped to do it. the irs. i always say if they jus enforce the tax laws of this country's. there will be a lot of money t do a lot of things it's a matching system they go after people who filed w twos and they go after the -- audit lower -- it's a simple thing once you get involved into th complexities -- how many people it would tak to properly audit corporations and very wealthy people. you see again and agai breakdown. >> that's the backdrop of this >> for a lot of people who - how come it's all lower nursin middle earners who get audited because it's easy. >> it's a simple matchin system you earn 50, 000, they see there should be a w two fo 50,000 if it is a matchup, there is a audit just like that >> that's not fair but easy. i get it suzanne, you definitely when cozy christmas room raider today. >> my dog busters just ready t

get on camera here >> blue christmas to you and to buster. suzanne, great to see you. thank you for your amazing reporting on this. suzanne -- pulitzer prize-winning investigative reporter with th new york times and msnbc contributor and a fellow canadian coming up, or in addition to all the new details from the latest - documents of the january six committee with two of th smartest lawyers i know. plus ukrainians woke up this christmas morning to the sound of air raid sirens blaring their clarion call across the country we're going live to kyiv for a report up next, the latest on the deadly winter weather that's causing chaos across the country this holiday still have symptoms of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. stand up to your symptoms with rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. it can stop further irreversible joint damage.

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severe winter weather -- overnight, for more people wer found that in erie county ne york as paralyzing temperature' record snowfall, fall -- prove to be a fata combination. more than half the country i reeling from the effects of th

so-called bomb cyclone in all, nbc news has learned o 32 deaths tented eastern weather conditions from th midwest to the northeast since wednesday. the national weather service issued a warning letting peopl know that in some areas, if yo go outdoors, frostbite could set in within minutes. snow is blanketing parts of th northeast up to 48 inches ar likely to accumulate in buffal new york the sense governor, kath hochul, says that buffalo is seeing the longest sustained blizzard conditions that hav ever been recorded there separately the, unusually cold weather is causing problems in texas. the u.s. energy department i declared a power emergency i the state. because the cold weather has caused power plants to fail. causing a shortage o electricity. you remember this is have no foreign texas. nbc news correspondent jesse curses in midtown manhattan. a city so cold right now the one energy company is asking for million customers to conserve energy until furthe notice people are out and about but it is cold in the city

>> it really is, ali this morning in philly about two degrees and social park bu we are still seeing people o their moaning run if you can believe. it feels even colder in othe parts of the country as he jus talked about and even though the winter weather issues the fda - starting to lessen their impac on the airports. this brutal cold is gonna be keeping operations at war of a crawl according to the faa and already for today, according to flightaware which extracts of planes all over th country. we are already seeing more tha 100 cancellations nationwide >> this morning, it's a wood christmas for many americans but this storm is not pure joy this holiday weekend, hundreds of thousands lost power amid bone-chilling temperatures as tens of millions face windchill alerts >> if you can go without the lights inside your house turne on, that may be the difference

between one extra house ou there having power >> i understand for those wh are dealing with the cold hous that this is a ver uncomfortable and in some ways even life-threatening. >> officials made the dangerou weather for a least two doze deaths across multiple states vehicles stranded. first responders stretched thin overnight, the brutal winter storm pummeled buffalo wit blizzard conditions. right now, a travel ban is i effect with new york's governo declaring a state of emergency and deploying the national guard. buffalo airport will be closed alisyn till 11 a.m. monday i think that's going to be unfortunately very disruptiv to those who want to leave o arrive and spend time with family over the christma holiday. >> the days-long weather woe causing widespread fligh cancellations and delays leaving christmas plans in limbo across the country this family scrambling fro newark to washington d.c. fo

their rebooked flight that supposed to leave today. >> a lot of people have a lo worse than we do we will make it through. we'll be all right >> one group of strangers gave up on going all together saying the drove almost 1200 miles from florida to ohio some of it's the storm to get home to their families. >> unfortunately we've heard stories of some people who are not going to make it home in time to be with their family for the holiday. one man for example that w spoke with my phone yesterda said at the earliest he wa going to be able to get home i tomorrow obviously, that is after christmas and that was not his plan thankfully, those power outage that we've been seeing the report number of power outages is diminishing which is good news there is concern about peopl being able to stay home -- buffalo is getting pummeled by this winter weather. and again, this is not jus tough to deal with it also can be dangerous and

life-threatening as you -- one other thing to point out for you who are trying t travel even as the weather improves because there are plenty incidents stuck in places. they were not supposed to be - it could take days for the airlines to get their crews an their aircraft back on track because of how much of a headache this has been, ali. >> gonna fight this afternoon. i keep watching and see whethe it's canceled but it seems t be on schedule a group in toronto so 35 miles as the crow flie from buffalo i grew up understanding all th storms folks in western new york an buffalo are completely completely used to this. this is unheard of the level of - 48 inches of snow and a shor period of time it's gonna take a while. jesse, stay warm, good to se you, thanks for joining us thi morning. marie could be doing tha morning afternoon thing al afternoon. after the break, we're gonna head abroad for the latest o the ongoing protests in iran at the american response a live report from the groun in kyiv ukraine.

stay with us

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-- calling for justice under th killing of free people o friday which french prosecutor say ha races motivations. law enforcement says a 69-year-old suspect opened fir at a kurdish cultural center i the city's tenth district. instantly killing two people the suspect and allegedl pursued a third victim who was called a nearby restaurant three others were wounded as well the sensory was taken into custody. the kurds sick of the screen some protester day - according to the paris prosecutor's office, the gunma specifically targete immigrants and the motive fo the attack was racism. late yesterday, and camill sent a theater tweet civilit after being diagnosed by dr. east as unfit to remain in custody. authorities say the suspect ha been recently freed from detention while awaiting trial for a different attack on

migrant camp in paris a year ago. if found guilty, the suspect faces life in prison turning now to iran. the united states announced ne sanctions against irania officials after tw anti-government protesters wer executed the treasury department slap sanctions on iran's prosecutor general. key military officials and least one company that treasur says supplied equipment that iranian law enforcement uses t suppress protests. two men have been executed i the last two weeks that's according to iran's judiciary. the first known executions o people arrested for protesting since the unrest began mor than three months ago. last monday officials publicly saying to a man from a construction crane in michau according to a judiciary runny days in -- a dozen other people have been sentenced to death according t human rights groups. the monumental anti government protests for - when this woman, 22-year-old mahsa amini, died after bein arrested by iran's moralit police for allegedly defying

the country's strict dress codes for women. this new round of sanctions is america's latest attempt a pressure iran to stop th violent crackdown on protesters which has led to more than 450 deaths according to the iran human rights organization. however, it's gonna pressure that americas putting on iran. rightfully so, that coul affect the renegotiation of th 2015 nuclear deal. the newly-surfaced video fro early november first reported by axios. president biden is heard sayin of the iran nuclear deal quote it is dead but we're not going to announce it what has national security advisor since sean curby responded to that video saying there's no progress happenin with respect to the iran dea now. we don't anticipate any proble anytime in the near future that's just not our focus. this is the stronges indication yet of the bide ministration feels that ther is no path forward for the nuclear deal which former president donal trump pulled the u.s. out of i 2018 this leaves questions about th

future of iran's nuclear program. at a time when toronto continues to increase it enrichment of uranium to troubling levels according to the u.n. nuclea watchdog -- in the meantime, iran met with eu officials in jordan thi week to discuss reviving the 2015 nuclear deal. both sides signaled that those talks will continue bu remember without america a those talks, americans would get the deal done in the first place. without america at the table there's probably not going t be a renewed deal. let's go to the war in ukraine now on russian state media thi morning, vladimir putin claime that he is quote ready t negotiate. that it's ukraine that i unwilling to sit at the table. the message comes on the heels of a barrage of russian ai attacks in ukraine thi weekend. a warning that some of these images i'm about to show you our graphic. at least ten people were killed more than 55 wounded in th city of kherson. ukrainian president volodymy zelenskyy noted the destructio

came as many citizens were jus beginning christma celebrations which for many orthodo christians will culminate in a traditional celebration on january 7th although man ukrainians now celebrate christmas today on decembe 25th zelenskyy delivered a christma message to his country sayin quote we endured attacks threats of nuclear blackmail terror missile strikes let's endure this winter we know what we are fighting for. joining me now is nbc news foreign correspondent matt radley who is live in th capital city of kyiv ukraine a sunsets on christmas matt, first of all, merr christmas to you for the first time, at the orthodox church in ukraine i allowing congregations t actually celebrate christmas today. but today is the day that it's fraud with mixed emotions. the day began with air rai sirens across the country. >> merry christmas to you ali. there were aired sirens bu this is something that is i -- hate to say it, it is routin here in kyiv and across the country there were air raid sirens her but least we didn't hear any

real bombardments. at least not in the capita here talking about this thing that is a really interesting issue. something we've been coverin for the last several days in interviews with church leaders and adherence and faithful we were just in a mess thi morning. this church right behind m saying michaels. i'm not sure if you've been to kyiv lately. this is a really beautiful church it is about 1000 years old it was destroyed by the soviet about 100 years ago. it was rebuilt now for the first time, they had an official christmas math on december 25th that's because this church like a lot of its parishioners returning to celebrate matt as a form of identity as a way to associat themselves more with western europe than with eastern europe this is -- we talk about the warm christmas in the u.s.. this is kind of like here a wa for christmas. we're basically deciding whe you're going to celebrat christmas is staking your tent

in whichever camp -- whichever identity you want to choose whether it's with moscow o with the west. i spoke with one young woman whose family like so many here were so bring the christmas by candlelight. because of the rolling bac when - they were cooking thei christmas dinner over ga camper stoves. here is what she had to sa about why for the first time she and her family were having their christmas dinner o december 24th. christmas eve. the night before christmas and not on january seven whe they have in the past. here's what she told me. >> after russian invasion, w also started getting to know more about our deep culture. it's culturally closer to what we want to celebrate and also that we feel closer culturally to the western worl then the orthodox old-world.

people and countries who are celebrating in january >> is this a rejection o russia >> it's partially. the russian orthodox church in russia which has its affiliates her in ukraine that a russian orthodox church has been really close to vladimir putin they have provided a kind of spiritual cover and a lot of justifications for russia' invasion of ukraine. it's no wonder that a lot of ukrainians who conside themselves patriots want t distance themselves from mosco and from the russian patriarch >> matt, i think after withi months of this war you were there the night i broke out. had been there a lot this reporting about impotence as he sort of negotiate. it's ukrainians that i want to this is tricky because ukraine's will say what exactl are we negotiating for he took crimea in 2014 then you took these othe places in ukraine.

we like our land back an that's when the war will b over tell me what you understand to be the case here with russia with putin saying i'm ready to negotiate. >> i gotta tell you. negotiation is the longest fou letter word in ukraine right now. nobody here wants to hear that we talk to governmen officials. they rejected entirely the source of negotiations a far as ukrainians ar concerned. that sort of back in the 1990s when the ukrainians abandone their nuclear weapons to placate moscow those reporting negotiations that's when negotiation became associated here with capitulation and ever since, the invasion back in 2014 when the russians took ove crimea and russian separatists russian-backed separatist to cover the donbas region. nobody's been talking abou negotiations in any earnes way. the negotiations back then led to the minsk agreements. two successive agreements that were not adhere to ukrainians say moscow signed

and then backed away fro negotiations in the earlie part of the year the collapse after the human rights abuses of which wer discovered so nobody here take vladimir putin seriously whe he uses the word negotiations. >> matt, stay safe, i know the skill and how do and police say safe. it's always good to see you on our show we will see you again soon have a merry christmas matt bradley for us in kyi ukraine. let's make something perfectly clear. we all have our right to clean and safe drinking water. but apparently that's on the case everyone in the unite states why isn't the governmentoi dng more we'll talk about this next velshi are the love event, subaru retailers have supported over seventeen hundred hometown charities. (phil) have i witnessed and seen the impact of what we do? you bet i have. (kathryn) we have worked with so many amazing causes and made a difference. (vo) by the end of this year, subaru and our retailers will have donated over two hundred and fifty million dollars to charity. (brent) it's about more than just selling cars.

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i'll workshop it, ok? puss in boots. only in theaters. rated pg. >> today residents of jackso mississippi are dealing with the new water problems the associated press reports that first temperatures of residents with low to no water pressure since yesterday according to city official crews are on right now tryin to fix the situation sadly, water issues aren't new for the city which has a predominantly blac population in august, the city's main water treatment plant suffered heavy flooding which resulted in the lack o clean drinking water boil water advisories were issued across jackson. just last month, justice department sued the city because of that problem. investigating the crisis of th potential civil rights violation. one prosecutor saying quot every american regardless of where they live their, income, or the color of their skin deserves access to saf

reliable drinking water. the question remains whether the federal government has don enough for the city of jackson nbc's -- has more >> the city of jackson has grappled with an ongoing water crisis for decades subject to ongoing boil wate advisories, groundwater and lo water pressure i spoke with residents objects in the head of the epa to hear what the federal government is doing to intervene >> 35-year-old tanika samuel i among a six and a lifelong resident of jackso mississippi. a city played with a decades long water crisis. water in the city is deeme safe to drink. but many residents still don't trust it >> you see my mom do this. i do it now for my kids. every morning, we come downstairs we get us a big baller water they put other tap the watch they're facing a brush their teeth. >> the water crisis triggere naacp complaint in september alleging racist policies b governor tate reeves and the state of mississippi claiming federal money was allocated to smaller majorit white communities instead of

jackson. governor reeves previously sai his administration is committe to ensuring all federal fund are made available on an objective and race neutral basis. the departmental protectio agency now investigating i mississippi violated the civil rights act >> no city in the united state of america should have a fragile system that leaves 190,000 citizens without clean water to drink >> if he administrator michael regan says the federal government has not adequatel invested in a communities. >> why do you think that a cit that's over 80% black is facin a decades long water crisis? >> environmental justice is serious issue in this country. which is why the president has made it a priority we know black brown -- low income communities hav seen a lack of investment. but also are on the front line of the impacts of these lack o investments. and climate change >> jackson was the first cit

reagan visited following his 2021 appointment >> i saw porta-potties lined all along the school i thought that was due t construction but that's what the students have been using for years. because they've been dealing with low water pressure. >> the white house says ne bipartisan legislation wil invest tallies 50 billio dollars in the nation' infrastructure including expanding access t clean drinking water >> it's my hope that the peopl of jackson now get the type of relief that they've been looking for for decades. >> the nika samuel hopes tha relief come soon >> i want my kids to have wonderful future i want this to go somewhere. so my kids won't have to worry about clean water. >> it is important to point ou that administrator reagan also warned that the epa is preparing for residents in the u.s. to experience inconsisten water access this winter particularly in areas of the country with intense storms an drought. back to you. >> our thanks every season cla someone for that report.

never again has become again and again for multiple targe minority groups across the globe. in any documentary dives int the complicated ofte disappointing calculus the nations make about who and whe to help. why they sometimes look th other way. i'm gonna talk to the director of the corridors of power when we return. were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone. it's something about having that piece of paper. some people think that's worth more than my skills. so it was a happy ending... i've run this place for 20 years, but i still need to prove that i'm more than what you see on paper. you gotta be so good they can't ignore you. it's the way my mind works. i have a very mechanical brain. analytics and empathy. that's how i gain clients. i am more... i'm more than who i am on paper. ♪

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as future of some of the india coast. killing everyone on boar including 24 children. that's according to the mi nations. the boat had been stranded a sea for more than two week after the captain sent out a distress signal saying the engine had failed. as food and water dwindle, those on the boat begged for help according to th washington post. despite their increasingly desperate pleas for help and despite aid groups calling a neighboring countries to sen out rescue missions, no one, not a single country came to their aid. the rohingya that are feared that are members of that ethni

muslim minority group from myanmar. predominately put hi country's. for decades now, the rohingy have faced institutionalized discrimination and in 2017 that the government launched a brutal military campaign tha for a 700,000 rohingya to flee back in march, the u.s formally declared that the myanmar villa terry committe genocide against rohingy minority four years after the unite nations made the sam determination. pivoting through china you inhuman or brace report -- china's treatment of its ethni uyghur population ma constitute crimes agains humanity first to launch a debate on th report that the united nations human rights council failed in october. amid heavy lobbying from china the rohingya and the uyghurs which is to communities of people facing brutal state sponsored violence there been many others i recent years decades after the world's majo powers reeled from the horrors of the nazis and vowed never again, oscar nominee directo

-- shines a harsh light on that broken promise revealing the genocide and targeted crimes agains humanity would in fact happe again and again. -- the corridors of power examine the often disappointing an complicated political calculus that goes into decisions about how the united state government as the soleiman superpower in the immediat post cold war era has responde to reports of atrocities since the fall of the soviet union the film now playing its lik theaters is an attempt t grapple with america and the u.n.'s ability or inabilit actually to stop genocidal crimes by focusing on six specifi conflicts from kosovo an kuwait to bosnia and rwanda an more recently libya and syria. he phone combines on the groun footage of atrocities with introspective and rock conversations with state department veterans an political heavyweights from th several administration's ove the last four decades. including madeleine albright colin powell and hillary clinton. arriving at a pivotal time i

the world with russia' invasion of ukrain increasingly being described a a potential third world war. this film grapples with wh some atrocities trigger u.s. action while others don't here's a look at the trailer >> do you want justice or piece? you can have both. this is one of those ver difficult calculations we were not successful hundreds of thousands of peopl have been killed how can you live with yourself >> i should've insisted on getting more involved. and i didn't and i will regretted forever >> i believe in peace. i'm not a pacifist

ambivalence is a thin. we must do something so their primary question is really no longer do we know? the question is what are w going to do about it you didn't debate that > joining us today discuss his powerful new film is the oscar nominee director - congratulations on the film. took you a long time to do this you've actually focus on t former secretaries of state wh are not even living. you were triggered to this conversation by something that confounded all of us it was syria it was the things that the syrian regime was doing to its own people what the rest of us figure i out is there's no actual mechanism for this there is mechanisms sometime for countries that invade othe countries or countries that go over a border to prosecute people when people doing to their own

people, there's very littl that the world can do. >> ali, thank you for having me i'm very happy to be here. you're right what triggered me to this movi is seeing after obama's re declaration. the use of chemical weapon will be abhorrent in a justifiable. and he will act upon that. and then you saw the chemica weapon attack which was -- 1500 people died among the more than 400 kids nothing has been done. and that's after the red lin of the president i asked myself after the information in libya why did the intervene -- didn't intervene in libya bu not in syria that kind of initiated the growing out to do this movie >> what did you learn becaus one of the take away something from the film is that national interests for americans or for the american government is not the same thing as human rights

the average person might think those two things are connected but in fact, they're mor disconnected than we'd like to believe. >> you're absolutely right national interest is where america has a real privilege for us to intervene. for example, in ukraine now, america is helping ukraine because there is an interest there that putin will not swip away democracies and will go after that if there was no response whe america, you would probably go into nato countries. believing that he will not d that putin assumed that because o what happened in syria, when h intervened in syria and nothin happened there, and although the blocker refugees went to syria. from syria to all of europ change basically the face of arab nothing happened putin kind of assumed probably that if he would do that i ukraine descending will happen so the national interests of america is defined by on person and that's the president of th

united states. he's the one that defines what comes in to the national interest of what comes out o that for example, over wanda. in the mid 19 -- 90 94 was not a national interest for america in there and 100 days, 900,000 people were killed by a machete. nobody can claim that they didn't know because th information of what was goin on in rwanda was available t the decision-maker during that time >> in many cases available t the public i know that russia - ukraine russian out fixe documentary. at this point, you had somebody, we have to find the trailer wh said you can choose justice or you can choose peace you can have both. justice in ukraine for instanc will be getting their land bac including crimea peace would mean the air rai sirens going off on christma morning and more people no being killed is a true? do believe that he can hav justice or piece but not both?

>> i think sometimes you can have both. but we have to be reasonable we have to be -- for example if you are speakin about what goes on in ukrain now. i don't think the endgame ca include justice and peace. i don't see putin withdrawin all his forces from crimea basically having to admi failure complete failure for his diplomacy or what he did in the case of ukraine, i thin hopefully there will be peace. justice i don't think we wil achieve in ukraine there are other examples where you can see justice and peac happen together. not more often i have to say when i started this process of doing th movie. i was more in ideas. i would take the title o samantha power second book, th education of an idealist it was educated during the process of doing this movie to understand that the world is full of bad people

and sometimes justice doesn' work with peace. you have to achieve what she wanted basically this guy that spok about it he was speaking about what happened in -- saying it was during the tim that omar al-bashir was in power and justice was no available so he said you hav to work with what you have you have to try to achieve justice and peace cannot wor together sometimes while putin is in power, w cannot achieve justice maybe we can achieve piece for the ukrainian people >> it's not an uplifting message. but at this point -- we need critical thinking. we need to be able to look bac at history understand ho decisions are made and you hel to sue that. thanks very much -- the filmmaker and the director of corridors of power. the foam essence like theaters now. it will soon air on showtime don't go anywhere. straight ahead, the latest details from the histori january 6th committee report we're in a look at the law, th history of the path forward fo

american democra another hour of velshi start after the break.

merry christmas to all of yo who are celebrating. i'm ali velshi we begin this hour with th latest in the investigation an the insurrection, and th historic january six committee's highly anticipated final report the document is massive, bot in scope, it's 845 pages long, an