merry christmas to all of yo

who are celebrating. i'm ali velshi we begin this hour with th latest in the investigation an the insurrection, and th historic january six committee's highly anticipated final report the document is massive, bot in scope, it's 845 pages long, and importance, relating to th future of democracy in the united states. however, synthesizing th monumental report down to on line is easy it's this. quote, the central cause o january six was one man. the man is exactly who you think it is, donald j trump. the report also notes, quote none of the events of januar six would've happened withou him. separately, the committee is voted to refer trump to th committee of justice for prosecution and for criminal charges, including obstruction of an official proceeding, a well as 18 and insurrection.

important to know right now, the 14th amendment of th constitution, vance individual who engage in an insurrectio from holding federal or stat office the committee reports persists recommendations to prevent another january 6th all attack including having congressman vote the 14th amendment, barring the insurrectionis from holding public office again. it all comes as congress has passed a major 1.7 trillio dollar spending bill, whic includes an overhaul of federa election law maybe it's not an overhaul, bu there's some things that hav changed. some important things that are changed about the electora count back, in an effort t prevent the january six by revising that at the counter 1887 joining me now is barbara look laid a former u.s. attorney fo the eastern district o michigan, and msnbc lega analyst, co-host of the sister and love podcast also with me is elizabet holtzman, a former congresswoman from the state o new york she is a council - alopecia, and the author of th

forward of the sky house print edition of the january six report importantly, she was a membe of the house judiciary committee during watergate welcome to both of you thank you for being with us. liz, i appreciate having you here because you have a sens of history because of watergate, and will how that'll progress their congress and a meaningful way, and ended up with th resignation of richard nixon this is been entirel different. this is technically bipartisan but it had absolute opposition from most of the republica party. yet, they have come out with 845 pages of this thing. and you feed 1000 people had 1 million pages worth of documents. they have literally released transcripts on a daily basis what is your evaluation of how this january six committee has done >> well, i think they've don spectacular job. i think they were faced with the fact that they were some prior hearings that didn't win public attention they had a tv consultants, t

executive who helped shape the narrative into something tha was compelling, dramatic, that people would listen to the american people grasped. not everyone,, remembered when richard nixon resigned, even though it was totall bipartisan condemnation of him there's still war about 24% of the american people who love him, would've followed him ove a cliff. okay, you can't get everyone support all the time and i think the committee did fabulous job and presenting th facts clearly, simply, using republicans -- so you couldn't attack the witnesses for partisanship, an presenting it in a coker it' and compelling narrative the difference between now and watergate is when nixo resigned, he was emasculated he had no more power we still have donald trump out there claiming to come back, wanting to come back >> claiming it wanted to com back here's the interesting part, barbara, putting aside the

political pressure on donald trump, including for mitch mcconnell, who is finall actually need to mess th problem and the republican party, there is enough going o with donald trump that it's no richard nixon resigning. there is enough pressure between the january si committee's report, th criminal referrals of th justice department, and th various other cases that are proceeding against him to actually have the effect in a different way. >> i think there's a possibility. although, it seems as donald trump loves to play the role o the victim grievance, resentment, it' very much his brand. you know, when he is under attack is when he is mos aggressive he believes the best defense i a good offense that's why you see him sayin outrageous things like terminating the constitution i think the statements are actually really dangerous. i think one or more of these investigations are likely to snare him, and hold hi accountable. in the meantime, i worry about

the effects he can have, the damage he can do i believe that ultimately he will be held accountable, an ultimately, that will help quell all of the unrest that comes from his efforts t divide the country >> liz, what about the rest of it there's a criminal referrals which everyone is focusing on, for good reason. they'd like the justic department, or jack smith, o merrick garland to do somethin about it the committee came up with all sorts of other things. one of which is the 14th amendment, they vote the 14t amendment. that becomes a little tricky because he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. lots of people have been convicted of staff we know there was an attempted insurrection the report says this would'v happened without donald trump, he was the cause of it that, again, gets politicized. if congress has to invoke th 14th amendment, politically republican controlled congress the skies and insurrection, as he can hold office i'm not sure i would hold my breath >> right, i think that any

congressional reforms that are recommended by this committee, or by anyone else, try t approve the electoral proces and make it fair, and less susceptible to the kinds o corruption attack that we ha under trump. it's likely to fail. the republican in the house, which is now moving forward on it the electoral count act is vital. i think the most important thing is really for th prosecutors and department o justice to do their job, and not to shy away from prosecuting the presidents o the evidence is there, and the laws there we - did not create a king. they couldn't prosecute you can, you can impeach a caring the framers made a very clea that anyone who was in offic could be prosecuted. they're not immune we should not create a immunity for presidents, because that would be the most dangerous thing we could do. it would be almost as dangerou as what donald trump did

>> barbara, what's your -- can anything happen on tha front, short of a criminal prosecution by the problem in justice that results in decision, a ruling that donald trump's insurrectionist? >> it's a really interesting question, ali. i don't think anyone knows the answer to that question. it is so untested. we have seen a play out ne mexico, with someone who is local official there, wh participated in the january si events he was kept off the ballot when i think the mechanism isn't its unspecified in the constitution, isn't each state when people are determined whether they are or no eligible to appear on th ballot, someone could raise challenge of donald trump' name appears there, in a rac for president. based on what we've seen already, there have to be in adjudication, but i think each -- could do its own adjudication. if you were to be kept off the ballots, and only a few ke states, that could be enough t keep him out of office >> liz holtzman, the likelihood,

there's four charges that have been referred to the justice department they have no legal weight, but that's not the relevant part o this a congressional reporter tha is 845 pages long, with lots o supporting documentation has now gone to the justic department where somebody is o the case of actually investigating donald trump there are a lot of people, and had this conversation with barbara, the insertion charges is the biggest, possibly mos important, but it is the hardest to prove it is the one that's going t be most politicized. what's your sense of whether o not the department of justic may or may not select that t pursue for those reasons it's a hard thing to bring a case against a former president, that's a hard thing to prove anyway >> well, i don't know. the insurrection took place in front of the american people everyone could see it. everyone saw exactly wha donald trump did and didn't do

they saw him exhorting the crowd to march to the capitol. he heard him exhort the crow to fight like hell they saw that he sat and did nothing for more than thre hours, two plus hours. that tells american people a lot. it tells lawn forsman people a lot. whether you can, whether the want to bring the charge shane and, after looking at all of the history and study that insurrectionists - i think the insurrection status encapsulates exactl what donald trump is trying to do he was trying to overthrow the authority of the united states he made start mates, yes he' and started, the cdc did that, but what was the intense and purpose. what was the significance of his act? it was to overthrow an electio -- and we never have seen tha before, former president

it's a shocking thing. >> thanks to both of you good to see you both thank you, merry christmas t you both -- it is -- >> saying to you and you audience >> elizabeth holtzman is a former congresswoman for - the author of the ford of th sky forced press print additio of the january six report. all, right still, had the on and only steve kornacki breaks down the important lessons w learn from this news midterm elections and what to look for in the next divided congress plus, the latest on the warn ukraine. one day after unleashing a wav of air attacks on civilians, vladimir putin says -- is coming from the man who started the war, completel unprovoked ukrainian president zelensky reference multiple histori battles for freedom this wee during a speech before congress history that everyone should now coming up, next we're goin to talk about those mentions and what it sa aysbout the result of the canadian people. subaru and our retailers have donated over two hundred and fifty million dollars to charity.

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americans to truly understan the gravity of ukraine's ongoing fight for freedo against russia, so whe ukrainian president volodymy zelenskyy address congress o wednesday, he tried to appea to americans by invoking references to two historical military battles the battle is saratoga, th battle of the bulge. both were considered turning points for america in differen ways sullen ski compared to battl of saratoga to his military' fight for the small, eastern ukrainian city of bakhmut. >> russian military and -- have been taking back nonsto since may. they have been taking it day and night, but buck mood stance just like the battle o saratoga the fight for bakhmut will change the trajectory of our war for independence, and fo

freedom. >> let me tell you a bit about that reference the battle of saratoga was fought during the revolutionar war by the american patriots who wanted to gain independenc from great britain at the beginning of the war, americans face many defeat against the british and strong military allies, but th tide started to turn i september of 1777. the battle of saratoga consisted of two crucial battles fought 18 days apart the fierce fighting began on a farm in saratoga new york, o september the 19th, 1777 momentum switch side throughout the intense fighting, but it said that the british suffered doubled the number of casualties that the american dead during that first part of the battle while the brits waited for reinforcements, the number o american troops groove the fighting continued o october the 7th, 1777. with british supplies dwindling, vast eventually, the america patriots had the british red coat surrounded, with fe options on the table, th british surrendered to the americans. dealing a decisive victory t america, and changing th

trajectory of the revolution we present day ukraine, th battle for bakhmut has bee relentless for nearly five months, with incessant bombing and attacks by russia, but a wilenski said, ukraine has hel strong and bakhmut the ukrainian army has already performed far abov expectations, tiring the russians, depleting thei weapons and supplies, like i saratoga if russia manages to win the battle for bequeathed, it will come at great military costs as the lewinsky compared the broader russian conflict to th battle of the bulge. a world war ii turning point between the allied powers an german forces during christmas time >> they threw everything against us, similar to the - which is in the battle of th bulge. through ever seeing and ha against the free world, just like the brave america soldiers which held their live and fought against hitler' forces during the christmas of

1944 brave ukrainian soldiers are doing the same to putin' forces this christmas. ukraine holds its lines an will never surrender >> the battle of the bulge was the next major offensive b adolf hitler's forces on the western front during world war ii winston churchill called it the, quote, greatest american battl of the war the brutal fight lasted grueling six weeks, from december 16th, 1994, to januar 25th, 1945 and a surprise attack in the ardennes region of belgium o day one, the germans massacred hundreds of l.a. troops an civilians. some 40 divisions -- battle fatigued american troop across 85 miles of dense fores and frigid temperatures. hitler's aim was to split th allies and their drive towards

germany. the german line took a strange shape, a bulge, with the germa offensive push back the allied lines, giving rise to th battles name britain, france, in america, delegated against german troops weather conditions finally let up on christmas day, 1944. disallowed for the allied ai forces to strike, and that delta monumental to th germans. america and the allied force claimed victory in the battl of the bulge and january 25t 1945 the entire war ended last an five months later. the timing of hitler mad december attack was strategic. as his vladimir putin's latest military strategy. by targeting ukraine's energ infrastructure, putin' brutalizing the ukrainia military, and the ukrainia population you've seen winter as a weapon freezing temperatures, no mean it keep warm zelenskyy likened his struggle to the intense fighting that american troops faced during but the battle saratoga and th

battle of the bulge. and both battles america troops prevailed against all lots they held the line against forces that appeared mor powerful, more prepared than they were. that's what ukraine is doing right now. holding its own. against all powerful russia, and a force that appeared more powerful and prepared than the were the war that vladimir puti predicted last just days is no going on 11 months that says a lot about th resolve of ukrainian military, and it's civilians, and th leadership of vladimir zelenskyy. shell-fish-pression. create your own ultimate feast is here. choose 4 of 10, like new cheddar bay shrimp. welcome to fun dining.

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bunch of nonsense. u.s. security experts agree. putin's christmas mornin announcement is completely a odds with the reality on the grounds in eastern europe. cia bill burns told th agency's assessment that russi was not yet serious but a real negotiations and the war this comes just one day afte the kremlin issued a bruta christmas eve attack on residential area and the cit of course on according to the regiona governor, at least ten peopl were killed, and 58 people injured, and when several bomb landed in the recently liberated city there is on government what -- on a day, off on the eve o christmas, the russian attacked the city center they attack the market shopping center, residential buildings, administrativ buildings, the places where th most people are. there are no militar facilities even nearby this is a target attack on civilians. i'm joined now by -- who knows the impact of this war firsthand. he is a journalist and senio fellow with the --

he also hosts the bloc diplomats podcast. terrell spent years living studying, on and off, in ukraine. he was there when the war bega in february, he spent week reporting on devastation, whil also working with loca residents to help people fle the violence terrell, good to have you. here thank you for being wit us thanks for the time and effort that you have devoted to the story. and telling parts of it that w don't always understand. the ukrainian resolve, let's talk about that. you, like me, spend most you time on the ground there wit people, as opposed to what the soldiers they have a lot of resolve it is cold, it is now headed into the second winter tha they will have to re-stand this the russians are targeting power plants, which they didn't, they weren't doing a year ago. it's not going to break th resolve of ukrainian peopl that you have met. >> absolutely. when you're ready to negotiate i -- let's think about this, here o christmas day. ten months ago, russia president, vladimir putin, wil say that he'll be in the middl of kyiv celebrating russia

christmas, and liberating th ukrainians from the so-calle ukrainian nazis, nonsense that he was talking about that has not happened. we've seen the attack on ukrainian infrastructure because they're losing on th battlefields they don't have the capacity the resources, or th logistical knowledge, or, quit frankly, the confidence to advance any further on ukraine and back, they're losing groun by but, depending on where you are in a country right now, when we talk abou resolving ukrainians, i talked all my friends every day, they say that's, excuse me, they're coming up with ways to get around the lack of electricity they're getting around the frustrations with being in the dark so the constant refrain to m is, we will never be under russian rule that's the attitude they continue to have that's not going to change >> the refrain i hear back then you hear now, we were talking about negotiations we're not talking about giving up any territory in fact, most ukrainians would like crimea back >> everyone asks me, was the

chances of ukrainian getting crimea back? that's gonna be a toug challenge. you know, even though crimea i -- very different from kherson. it's very different from luhansk and donbas they are very entrenched there it's just technically -- they have to get to the region of kherson this is going to happen anytim soon it will happen, i believe, but when, we're not sure it's something that's possible primarily, because they have the capacity to fight back beat russia been the secon most powerful victory on earth that miss is - the mystique around the fear russian military has bee broken, it's giving them optimism >> i wanna make the point yo just made more clearly here. the idea that russia can't advance on the ground in any meaningful way, take new territory, has actually lost territory, has resulted in these attacks energy plans because you can just send missile to one so they say, the russians argue, these are plants that create electricity that they're

hitting are being used for military purposes. in, fact we've watched for ten months, civilian infrastructur being attacked these electrical plants in places that have nothing to do that have nowhere near the front. >> absolutely. even when i was in ukraine, was nearly heads myself, under missile attacks in civilia areas. the thing about these missil attacks, and civilia infrastructure, they do serve military purpose the russian military is losing so the whole point of hittin the civilian infrastructure is to force the ukrainian population to capitulate, to give an. >> i want my electricity back. >> they don't care about that. their whole thing is - kids or condition to think that he talked to the small, th youngest people, they're sayin we're going to sacrifice and suffer because we don't want t be under russian rule. that's a constant refrain. it's very simplistic, but th main thing is that putin doe

not understand that ukrainia people, or his quote unquote brother, is the key things tha he does. i think there is still a shock like, oh my god, i thought you loved us i thought you liked us he's getting that intel, he' also delusional. >> the role of nato countries, against, ukraine he's going to come after us. it seems evident that vladimir putin's russia has no abilit to invade an actual nato country, and face the wrath of what would happen if they tr that >> listen, in all respects, to ukraine, we all know that most nato countries are far mor equipped their training is much better, they have far better technology we are not giving ukraine ou best equipment we're not giving our bes fighter jasper, not giving our best takes, we're not giving them the best, anything, eve though they do - just imagine them going agains pull, and what that woul represent. they don't have the capacity t do it.

the main thing that we need to pay attention to is that eight years ago, ukraine was a military on paper, for them to move from, i've had people say well, terrell, we were tryin to decide what the ukrainian want on the stay, or that day, they were so disorganized. now that they are able to figh back, russia i years later it's a miracle it wasn't supposed to happen >> there are a lot of people who thought that despite wha we thought, we overestimated rushes capacity, but fully underestimated - >> because we didn't know ho well these would take place. everyone's focus in th military, but there's civi society in ukraine that th saluted the space so tha ukraine could receive this foreign aid. eight years ago, all of this investments, militarily,, woul not have happened because they did not the capacity to do so. >> amazing reporting on your part, thank you my friend. we've had many conversations tab throughout her main star in the senior -- and the host of the bloc

diplomats podcast. all, right up next, the one an only steve kornacki shares som important lessons the countr learned up to the 2022 b germs. they're not all trump related.

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have a little bit of time to look back on the novembe surprised. him across exceede expectations of maternal elections. they predicted a red wav predicting a slew of donal

trump endorsed candidates an putting a dent in his influenc on the gop going forward nbc's steve kornacki is -- from what we learned tha flight of elections. >> well we started 2022 asking if there would be a bi republican wave, we end 2022 knowing that there was and republicans get control of the house, but they get it by very slim margin they end up losing a senat seat what happens what do we learn from this midterm cycle? one thing that i think stand out is that joe biden, democrats had a good midterm cycle politically, relativel speaking, in spite of th unpopularity of the presidents 44%. this number -- only 44% job approval rating for biden. we've been trained, we've seen in modern elections, this kind of number for presidents in midterm election is always, in modern times, meant politica catastrophe for the presidents party. take a look here, these ar recent presidents. this is their approval rating.

during the midterm elections trump 2018, barack obama and 1 and in ten george w. bush in 2006 their approval ratings all basically right where jo biden's was this year. you look it 18, it is disaster for republicans, they lost 40 seats in the house 18 was a disaster, they lost nine senate seats in that hous -- they didn't have many seat left to lose, otherwise that would've been bigger 63 seat lost in 20, 10:30 seat loss for republicans, but on the senate side. this is what local rating ha meant in modern times. biden's number, a lot of republicans with again a lot o democrats were fearing it woul mean something similarly politically, catastrophic. it didn't. why? what broken democrats favor? well i think what really stand out is this. we are looking at here is th independent vote in the midter elections. democrats actually won the independent votes by two points all of these recent --

the independent broke for th party in double digits that's what we've been condition to expect. have a president as unpopular, the independents go to the opposition party and they do have big numbers they didn't do that this year. even though biden is still not that popular let's dig into those numbers a little more. look at independents again, i say biden was not the popular. there was especially true, tha is especially true for independent voters 60% of independent said th exit poll, they had an unfavorable review of biden. a majority in a favorabl review of the democratic party the democratic party, joe biden, not party with independents. you can see here, th republican party, an especially donald trump, eve less popular significantly less popular wit independent voters i think you start to see, here we typically see these midterm elections, as a referendum o the, president referendum on the presidents party, that's typically how they've run. i think there was probably a referendum aspects here on the

opposition party the man who most recently look the opposition party this year it's a dynamic you don't typically happen to elections. also, take a look at this. you talk about the role of donald trump, it's lingering presence in the center stage o american politics, the january six hearing this summer. asking independent voters abou the state of democracy nearly three quarter said they feel democracy is threatened they look at these voter split. these independent say that democracy is threatened fo democrats by a 16-point margin those who said they considered secure voted for republicans b six point margin it's a lot more independents they said that they consider democracy threatened and unusual results, and unpopular president in his party but the independent vote and staves off what i think lot of people started this yea -- of political disaster fo democrats, instead, they gai to see the, house they came in at five in the senate, fiv within the united house. >> that is steve kornacki. he so good coming up, republicans are

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of a political party tha hinges itself to an ally or an opportunity she didn't win the popular vote, -- and he's still stood by whil he endorse fringe candidates i election battles, then you might not be good at your job. that is the story of republica house leader, kevin mccarthy he has been the house minority leader, which would mean tha he has been poised to take ove speaker of the house whe republicans take control of th house next month, but mccarthy at the moment, doesn't appea to have enough votes to win th speakership. so what is kevin mccarthy doing? he's making sure no one else can get any work done in the house really tries to lock dow enough votes mccarthy's taken the weird ste of ghislaine - for committee leadership pos until after his own election

for speaker. this is according to politic is going to delay the actual work that gets done an congressional committees for days if not weeks. quote, some of the mos important panels, includin those charged with tax writing and border security won't be able to prepare bills, hearings, or hire staff. mccarthy's counter - senate majority, senat minority leader mitch mcconnel also cozied up to donald trump but stood by while he trashe the gop and democracy. under mcconnell's leadership the republicans actually los the senate seat in the midterm this year, even though the were favored to win control of the chamber. now it appears that mcconnel may have decided that he's finally safe to turn on donald trump. we have two years of refusin to call out the twice impeache likes president by name fo anything, mcconnell this wee blame trump and his diminish political club for the republican parties at school shortcomings in the election he told my colleagues, we lost support that we needed among independents and moderat republicans, primarily related to the view that they had us a

a party. largely made by the former presidents, that we were sor of nasty intended toward chaos. nasty intended towards chaos joining me, now jennifer reuben a nbc political analyst. also here is joe walsh, former congressman from illinois in 2020 presidential candidate, and host of the podcast, white flag with joe wells. i've been doing this all day i'm saying get up to now, it's unusual for me it's kind of remarkable, jen that mitch mcconnell has com to the conclusion that peopl started thinking of th republican party as sort o nasty, and tended towards chao because of donald trump. i mean, i guess better lat than never >> imagine the grief h could've stayed if he had vote in the second impeachment tria to convict donald trump. none of what you just said would've happened. of course, he didn't he tried the game of straddlin both sides of the republican

party. i think he has actually more - to the boards house republican that he does towards democrats these days i think he has always run tight ship he knows when to get thing done he is very concerned about ukraine and national security. i think that he has an overwhelming amount of contemp for not only kevin mccarth specifically, who can't get hi ducks in a row, but for th crazies over there who can't decide what they want to do. who acted during the speec from president zelenskyy, an ukraine, and are running aroun with their heads cut off so i think that for mr mcconnell, welcome to -- i don't know how to interpre his belated awakening. at least he's come around to the view that perhaps -- would help the republica party. >> perhaps it will let's put our attention on the house for a second, joe, where you served there are six people, at the moment, running against kevi

mccarthy for speaker of th house. there are often people who wil run knowing they're not goin to win, but in this particular case, six individual people ar running against kevin mccarthy they could prevent him fro getting the votes to becom speaker. what happens now none of the six people can actually gotten about to becom speaker themselves to people rally around them? does this get delayed an eventually mccarthy become speaker? what happens >> i think that, elie. i think the way this will play out, mccarthy will eventuall become speaker he is damaged goods. quickly, and what jen said mitch mcconnell is not a never trumper. mitch has been down this roa before it doesn't matter what mitch mcconnell says, the base of th party is not where mcconnell is ali, as the house goes, served in the house. the house of representatives represents the base of the party. much more so than the senate does and the base of the republican

party is fully radicalized the base of the party is laure goldberg and marjorie taylor greene i served with kevin mccarthy he is not an idealogue he doesn't believe in what the base believes in he doesn't believe in anything he's a political operator. that is why he's so tortured right now, because he's trying to sound like marjorie taylo greene to appease marjorie taylor greene to become speaker, but that is not who he is at all. i think he'll eventually get it, ali, what he is sold every inc of his body to get it. >> this is not ideal, becaus kevin mccarthy can't, probably make himself speaker he can probably get that role. now he's got this problem, because what joe just said he's got a top like marjorie taylor, granaries got appeal t that part of the republica party. the whole exercise of thes midterm elections ha demonstrated to most republicans, including mitch

mcconnell, that it doesn't work it's not a winning strategy. >> that's right. what he's going to do is for the next few years, cater to the very people who ar unpopular. he's going to put them in prim house seats for -- they're going to create thes three ring circus of hearings. they're going to spew a lot of these conspiracy theories. the rest of that country, suspect, are going to look a the circus and give him tw things one, i don't want these people in power anymore, and to, if that's what the republican stand for, maybe joe biden, as old as he is, isn't so bad after all. i think this is not only harmful for mccarthy, and th chances of holding on to the house in 2024, which now, an contrast in 2022, with democrats, they only need to lose five seats. it creates another problem for the republican party they could not seem to get thi

trumpism out of their system even if trump is in seriou decline, and facing al smattering of legal problems >> the problem, joe, is that this is like a state for human flesh at this point. i remind people, when you ar in congress, you were a couple ballrooms to the right of th mainstream republican party at the time there are people who are i that position, who are sensing that they have power they have strength, they can b disruptive to kevin mccarthy either in his pursuit of the speakership, warren anything else that he tries to do these people can actually, possibly, grind most o congress to a halt for the nex two years. how do they reconcile that folks who were in your camp? how do they reconcile the idea that the only way to mov forward is to actually relinquish some of the power we can have it, we can slo congress down, we can't stop congress and kevin mccarth from getting stuff done, but then what happens in two years how do you protect yourself to voters >> it's interesting, ali, luck we made life hell for jo bader. the freedom caucus

the tea party guys, we made it hell you are so caught up in that you're so caught up in what yo believe in that you don't to look at the bigger picture here's the other thing, i thin that jen is right the best thing that happened to the democrats and joe biden is tha republicans got control of the house. the country is going to see radicalized house, because the house reflects the base. these districts, ali, are so gerrymandered, and most of the crazies, like marjorie and - even though she had a clos call, are pretty safe that the can get themselves reelected even if it hurts the party overall. they're much less concerne about that because they will keep their fans in the house they'll get reelected year after year >> that's i guess the problem, jennifer, all politics i local. a lot of these people, the six of them running agains mccarthy, the --

who by the way had a close election, so maybe their politics want to change, but marjorie taylor greene did not have a close election. i guess that's the problem how do you reconcile between the people you are hearing fro the keep sending you back to congress, and the health of th country, the health of the party that you're part of? >> well, this is the issue it is one of the reasons why gerrymander rain and some of the other democratic reform to democrats wanted to get done and didn't are so critical i think joe put his finger on, it which is these people don't care about governance. they don't care about bein productive they are in it for the performance, they're in for th fame all they care about is going back to the circus, year after year, after year, to perform what to get more on and othe opposing cable channel all they care about is wha comes with this right-wing kin of performance art i think what we saw, however is that the country has a very limited appetite for that. the country is trying to mov on, and trying to be somewha

serious about their politics that means that democrats ar elected in do well in 2024 unless republicans we discover that politics is really abou governance, that about solving peoples problems >> i come to the two of you lot, because you're both reall smart people, and not if you think that's going to happen the world can change in tw years. jen talked about republica right-wing performance art, joe, you talked about on, the 23rd, remember my former - the truth no longer matters. the truth stop matter in a lon time ago i think to your point, these folks can feed off of this energy because they can go o right-wing media and say whatever they want that is not where they're bein held to account. >> i got, it ali gore right ten years ago, i was extreme you rightly called me extreme. it was generally because w were fighting over issues, too much, we fought over issues. when i say the party is no radicalized, they no longe believe in truth, and, their

political opponents now ar mortal enemies so marjorie taylor greene, jim jordan, all these people, mean, they are, they fee empowered todestroy th democrats. not just to defeat them, but t destroy them that is why they are radicalized. that is why they'll investigate, they'll spend the next two years investigating ever democrat they can investigate. >> love having you to. on thank you so much i really appreciate. it anchorage people to follo your writing, your shows, an your tweets. well it's not relevance, you had a really interesting tweet a few days ago, joe, about how you discover the love of berries. i wish you a merry year of enjoyment of berries good to see both of. you thank you so much. jennifer reuben is an opinio writer for the washington post an nbc political analyst author of resistance, how wome save democracy from donald trump. joe walsh is a forme republican congressman fro illinois of white flake

author of death silence. that does it for me. thank you for watching velshi. catch me 8 to 10 eastern don't forget, velshi i available as a podcast you can listen to the entire show on the go you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. listen for free. merry christmas, stay righ where you are. my buddy richard louis i picking up our news coverage right after a quick break. savannah: great having you. hoda: incredible women!

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