the digital age is waiting. to finally lose 80 pounds and keep it off with golo is amazing. i've been maintaining. the weight is gone and it's never coming back. with golo, i've not only kept off the weight but i'm happier, i'm healthier, and i have a new lease on life. golo is the only thing that will let you lose weight and keep it off. who loses 138 pounds in nine months? i did! golo's a lifestyle change and you make the change and it stays off. (soft music) hi there, everyone it's 4:00 in the east. now armed with the single most exhaustive, most detailed blueprint for prosecuting a former president ever assembled, the department of justice has a choice to make one that could alter the course of u.s. history.

as it stands right now, 845 pages of damning evidence, painstakingly collected by the january 6th committee contain therein what amounts to a charging document aimed squarely at donald trump. the results of more than 1,000 witness interviews and hundreds of thousands of text messages, emails and documents hearings and reported combined to provide an incomplete look at what the committee uncovered the newly released final report contains a trove of important new information. so much, in fact that it could take us weeks to fully appreciate what the committee compiled some of the most startling revelations, startling witness accounts about the twice-impeached disgraced ex-president's state of mind in the leadup and during the attack on the capitol for instance, there's new evidence that indicates trump approved the violence -- excuse me -- i've come back with

a cough -- as it was happening one of his aides, robert gabriel texted during the siege, potus i'm sure is loving this. remember, though, the slow-rolling attempted coup started long before january 6th. for instance, the complete report now sheds startling new light on the fake elector scheme and the pressure campaign perpetrated by trump and rudy among others e we know know much more about the sheer scope of that effort in all trump's inner circle made at least 200 apparent acts of public or private outreach, pressure or condemnation, and run the gamut. 6 68 meeting, phone calls or texts to state and local officials. 18 instances of pubic remarks and 185 social posts aimed as those officials. in its final report the committee lays out a number of recommendations. try to prevent anything like this from ever happening again the committee includes a "whole of government approach" to

rooting out violence extremism reforms to the electoral count act of 1887 and a surge in protective mergers on days in which congress certifies a presidential election. as for the man himself, the committee recommends congress look into using the 14th amendment to bar donald trump from ever holding federal office again. but the committee's power stops there. only doj can actually charge trump with any crimes. now with so much evidence collected at doj's disposal and in the public arena, the pressure's on. it's where we begin today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. peter baker is here. a "new york times" chief white house correspondent. also an msnbc contributor. joyce vance is back, former u.s. attorney now law professor at the university of alabama. and an msnbc legal analyst former senator and msnbc political analyst my monday regular, g glad you're here on a tuesday. claire mccaskill and a former

cia officer and special fbi agent. i missed all drama and waiting the report, i understand it, finally came out late on thursday, but, peter baker, seems it was worth the wait. that there's so much con nent h content, details, communications between donald trump's inner circle so many assumptions that sound so much like comey wrote about when unceremoniously fired by the trump administration about the trump circle operating and talking to one another, like a mob family. >> reporter: that's exactly right, nicolle the most thorough accounts what happened on that day and really the weeks that led up to that day. right? it wasn't just what happened on that day violence, horrifying as it was, it was what prompted it in the first place as this report documents clearly, a president who was willing to say anything,

do anything to hold on to power. that's not something we've ever seen before in american history. it's so important to have a document like this, a document produced by a bipartisan committee even though many republicans, of course have condemned it, that documents exactly what happened, how it happened and where it started. i think that this will go down in history as a thorough record. we'll all go back and look at trying to figure out what happened and how our democracy got to this point. >> well, and i think, joyce, those are the big, big, big things in it how our democracy got to this point but also evidence of ongoing criminality. donald trump as a witness tamperer is a very prominent subplot. evidence that cassidy hutchinson among others was pressured after she was subpoenaed. >> the evidence of obstruction of justice from start to finish is really alarming, and that's the sort of thing that prosecutors take very seriously. you know, you have to wonder how

doj is digesting this. i would suspect they are very happy to have all of the evidence, and the transcripts, but they will not accept the committee's league conclusions as their own they'll read through the evidence and draw their own inferences and read their own conclusions where the evidence is strong, but these incidents of trying to disrupt witness testimony, other incidents where there's an effort, perhaps, to not let evidence come to the table for investigators, these are very compelling reasons that doj would want to get in the mix here you'll remember early on, nicolle, the trump folks often dismissed obstructionism, right? heard that a lot during the mueller investigation aera. i think doj will find this important. >> joyce, is it a weird dynamic to be talking about what doj will do with this? i mean is there any instance in

which congress is so far out in front of doj, with a plethora of former doj officials doing the investigative work in this case on the part of the 1-6 select mountain people like tim hang hathey and others >> it's odd. sitting in front of doj i'm not really happy about this. in essence, the case file is now public we have all witness transcripts, more -- this afternoon including georgia's secretary of state brad raffensperger everyone can read for themselves the testimony of these people, and then we have the report, which is maybe half prosecutive memo, this document prosecutors, right before the they indict including possible charges and evidence to support them and part opening statement the government's expectation and how it will come to trial and

what it expects to prove absolutely, you're doj you now have your entire case file exposed and not necessarily a good thing that means possible attendants or other witnesses are able to see what you have and able to restore their own and not a good position to be in. >> joyce, you gave voice to early exasperation on the part of this role reversal, if you will, that, again, we don't know what we don't know we don't know exactly where doj is, but we do know, some indication, that the dramatic testimony of cassidy hutchinson, among others, was news to them was novel and revelatory the committee made a decision to function with proving criminality and achieving the hurdles for proving criminality as its goal at least in terms of what they put into the public arena. the report is no exception i want to go back and show some

of the testimony because they added to it cassidy hutchison testifying to trump's knowledge he had been defeated in november but they added hoke hpe hicks and we sawt for the first time let me play this. >> and i recall him saying to him something to the effect's riders got to the capitol we need to see the president now. mark looked at him, he doesn't want to do anything about it. >> i didn't speak to the president about this directly but communicated to people like eric herschmann is was my view it was important that the president put out some kind of message in advance of the event. >> and what was mr. hirschmann's response >> mr. hirschmann said he had made the same recommendation directly to the president, and that he had refused. >> so both women also testified

ostensively to trump knowing he lost but not wanting other people to notice and i'm not a psychologist i don't really know in what world he thought other people wouldn't notice he was an outgoing president, claire, but the voluminous amount of people who had incredible ins mayes with donald trump and his inner and outer words and thoughts is just staggering. >> there were several places in this report that the prosecutors in me said i want this to be a memorable moment in front of the jury i want to draw this picture and let it sit with the jury for a moment the new evidence that really struck me was that he was told at 1:21 that they had cut his speech off of tv because they were rioting at the capitol. the end of his speech off because they were rioting at the capitol, and then someone took a breast card. anyone who's worked in washington knows what they are

little cards that fit in a suit pocket, we used to complain, designed for suit pockets. that you could write a note on. >> right. >> someone wrote a note on one of those white house breast pockets, a card, that said, "civilian shot at house door." "wounded in chest. it was written out on a card and there is a witness that says they saw that card sitting in front of the president at his private dining table at 2:44. 2:44. he knew someone had been shot in the capitol, a civilian, and what did he do he sat there for another 90 minutes before he ever said anything about sending people home, and everybody on that jury will know he had the power to do that that is an incredible powerful moment, and i don't think it will been laid out so clearly that he knew in realtime that

someone had been shot, and the evidence here is overwhelming. by the way, if doj is upset about this i get it, joyce. i know they're probably upset. all they got to do look in the mirror does anybody believe this committee had the more resources than the department of justice does anybody believe they have more agents, investigators, lawyers in the department of justice, is there any reason the department of justice couldn't have done this in the same time frame or even sooner than the select committee of course, they could have but they didn't. the only people they have to blame for being behind in having all of the evidence of public, which eventually defense gets anyway before trial, is themselves and i don't feel sorry for them. i'm glads outside there in the public because now the pressure is on them top do what they should do and that's indict. >> an uncomfortable part of the conversation but a really important one. follow-up with you, claire the committee decided, it's

clear, reporting in the "washington post" reporting, it's clear in this unprecedented partnership between speaker nancy pelosi and liz cheney, i mean, it's clear that what happened on this committee was a decision to, as you just said, sort of duct tape and will, try to function in lieu of doj it is clear when you read this, but that was the mandate they believed they had, and when liz cheney starts reading in public hearings, it was exactly a year ago. it was december of last year from the criminal code, it's clear that she thinks that nothing is happening at doj, and i wonder, claire, if you have any new theories seeing how -- i mean to your point o' i wondered when i read about the pocket card. peter baker, all presidents have these, would pull it out -- for sort of having specifics about a

policy rollout or a roundtable, or sometimes local trivia, but you're right someone wrote to him that someone had been shot and killed i wonder where that was? right? he took all of these documents to mar-a-lago. a pocket card is the exact sort of thing you can imagine donald trump thinking was his claire, i wonder if you have any new theories when you see how much they did with all of their limitations, with zero cooperation from republican house members, who were all over this report as having knowledge of and participating in, especially the big elector scheme any theories why doj is so behind >> it's hard for me. i mean, maybe joyce can speak to this i think when you look at doj, they are not responding 911 call they don't do that. speed is typically not at the top of their list. at the top of their list is be thorough don't indict until you're sure you can convict. and they have usually the luxury of time, because most of the

time they're not dealing with violent crime. violent crime is typically dealt with at the state and local level. so what happens is, they are used to going methodically and slowly, and carefully, and i get that, and i respect that, but in this instance, i think the leadership at the department of justice was of two minds is it really so bad that we indict a president and what does that do to the president and the politics and what does that do to the country? and then, on the other hand, there is evidence we have to get to, and, of course, they did have a good excuse in that they had hundreds of people to go after on low-level crimes as related to the riot itself. so i think what happened was, that until merrick garland made up his mind to appoint the special counsel, i don't think he was lighting a fire under anyone and the culture there is typically to go slow and thorough not to go fast whereas, this committee knew it had to go fast, if it was going

to get all of this evidence in and in front 69 american people before potentially the republicans took over the house. >> tracy, there is an example, though, in recent u.s. history, peter baker covered this period. it's highly controversial i think in hindsight, but the time there was a good deal of bipartisan support in the wake of another terrorist attack on american soil close to the u.s. capitol. that was 9/11. democrats and republicans and the executive branch and doj did everything in their power to understand what had happened and make sure it didn't happen again. i mean, the muscles in the synapses exist and they never stop at the low lives that carry out the hits doj famously tries to get all the way to the top what do you think when you read this report? >> so i think that that's an

excellent analogy. i worked at cia before and after september 11th in the counterterrorism center so much of what i did was subject to the that review, and i have compared it a bit to this i don't think it's that far off. one of the things that i find interesting is i think in that case the perpetrators were not home-grown in this case, the perpetrator are home-grown and one top perpetrator is president of the united states. certainly it is unprecedented. obviously, to indict a president. but i'm not sure we have much of a choice here, because i think it was bennie thompson who said really what he did was open the doors for those in our country whose hatred and bigotry threatening quality justice for all, the crux of the problem trump lit this fire that fanned the flames of this even hope hicks texting she's scared that she looks like a domestic terrorist now well, maybe you do the problem if we don't take the

whole of government approach, which is precisely what the 9/11 commission did, set up new entities, new organizations, new oversighted, we'll have a serious problem. in alaska, dave eastman, i think, just took local office and a judge okayed that even though he is a member or was a member of the oath keepers that a problematic sure, maybe he didn't storm the capitol but he aligned himself with this organization, not to mention vrs arious leaks of memr ranks showing they're in the dhs and law enforcement. this is highly problematic and i think we need to focus on that whole of government approach >> you know, peter i think you have written more than one story about donald trump lighting a match to fill in the blank on the -- you wrote more eloquently than i'm retelling it here whether it was a moment's racial crisis, a moment of political --

almost like tectonic plate pressing against each other and erupting in the january 6th insurrection the committee decided to deal with the person lighting the matches in this investigation and in their report. what is your sense of how it's been received at doj >> well, a good question i don't really know the answer, because i'm not really that inside the building, but i think you're right to point out that they do not flinch from saying this all comes back to one man to one person. right? this is not just you know, well, i understand some things got out of control one person's intentional effort to overturn an election, to use the politics of division and polarization to keep power right? every politician -- politics is about division, obviously. it is about us versus them at some point election point, make the case our plan's better than theirs. our candidate is better their their candidate. this was the modus operandi for

donald trump for four years. he never believed in bringing people together, thought ways to use cleavages in our society to his advantage. in this report, he did exactly that to play to the "us versus them" themes to convince at least a third of the country something wrong happened he was wronged in some way even though the report documents he admitted privately in aides he knew better. his aides told him again and again the things he was saying in public were not true. this is not something who thought somebody went wrong and i should explore it. he actively, knowingly, promoted a lie in order to hold on to the presidency we said at the beginning i say it again, something we've never seen before. fight hard in an election, yes, maybe in a recount if there's a reason but never a president who tried to hold on to power over the will of voters in a way that this is documented

>> yeah. and he's still celebrating the insurrectionists, his soldiers on that day. i want to play for you, we have to sneak in a break. which we come back i'm going to play some of the testimony that it committee amassed we know is under pretty advanced scrutiny by doj that is donald trump's role in the electors plot and more on what tracy is talking about what the report says how violent extremists answered then president trump's call to come storm the capitol that day and the line they still have to him. plus, how republicans plan on clinging to power at any court today we're learning how much more the gop knew about congressman-elect george santos' very inconvenient relationship with the truth and how republicans are likely to keep quiet about it later in the program, democrats are taking advantage of their 2022 midterm wins hoping to keep momentum going into 2023,

pushing back against election deniers and expanding access to the polls. michigan's secretary of state jocelyn benson will join us. all those stores and more and "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ) - hey, kaleb, what's up? how you doing? - hey, i'm good. guess what. i just had my 13th surgery. - [alec] really? - how are you doing? - i'm doing good. i'm encouraged by seeing how people are coming together to help each other during times like these. - kinda like how shriners hospitals for children is there for us. - i know my shriners hospitals family will continue to take care of kids like us who need them most, all because of caring people like you. - like me? - (chuckles) no, the people watching us right now at home. we hope you'll call the special number on your screen right now. - you'll be making sure our amazing doctors and nurses can keep helping kids like us who need them now and in the days to come.

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it's not the same. what could you do to solve the problem? we could get xfinity? that's actually super adult of you to suggest. i can't wait to squad up. i love it when you talk nerdy to me. guy, guys, guys, we're still in session. and i don't know what the heck you're talking about. when people come, they say they've tried lots of diets, nothing's worked or they've lost the same 10, 20, 50 pounds over and over again. they need a real solution. i've always fought with 5-10 pounds all the time. eating all these different things and nothing's ever working. i've done the diets, all the diets. before golo, i was barely eating but the weight wasn't going anywhere. the secret to losing weight and keeping it off is managing insulin and glucose. golo takes a systematic approach to eating that focuses on optimizing insulin levels. we tackle the cause of weight gain, not just the symptom. when you have good metabolic health, weight loss is easy. i always thought it would be so difficult to lose weight, but with golo, it wasn't. the weight just fell off.

i have people come up to me all the time and ask me, "does it really work?" and all i have to say is, "here i am. it works." my advice for everyone is to go with golo. it will release your fat and it will release you. upper deck trying to hold the upper deck now! we need to hold the doors of the capitol. we've lost the line. we've lost the line!

all of pd, step back step back up to the upper deck all pd step back up to the upper deck [ chanting ] >> all: nancy! nancy! >> still so difficult to watch that maybe even more so when you take into account what the january 6th committee's final report says about all the warning signs that existed federal and local law entheoriesment in r in possession of multiple strings of violence directed at the capitol prior to january 6th although some of that intelligence was prag meantary should have been sufficient to have far more preparations failure to sufficiently share and act upon intelligence jeopardized lives of the police officers defending the capitol and everyone in it back with our panel. tracy, i wonder how you read that and what you think?

>> first of all watching that makes me so angry. i do not risk my life overseas and preservation of democracy to have it sort of taken over in just five minutes and i think we have the 9/11 commission that saw all of the issues with communication, and all of the issues with -- with predicting these 9/11 attacks, and we have learned nothing, basically, because, really, it is very clear. they released information that came out through encrypted channel it's like zello and clear and much more detailed than some information we had, say, for bush's pdb leading up to 9/11. much more detailed and still no one seemed to take these had threats seriously. and that's what i am just compl completely not understanding we have precedent to take these threats seriously because we know what happened at 9/11 here, the threats, i guess because they're not from the outside, from thes, more

homegrown, no one would ever do anything like this the problem is we are victims of our own lack of imagination in terms what these people can do and that's why i think this sort of holistic approach in terms of attacking this report is going to be so critical, because clearly we have some laps in terms of taking this information seriously. >> i mean, tracy, what's amazing to me is even on that day we had members, democratic members of congress, on who were talking about calling their spouses on the night of the 5th to tell them where their wills were or wearing sneakers, 0 having their staff stay home because they knew there would be violence so the democratic members were so convinced, one, they might die, two, their staff was? danger and three, might need to run that they located wills, wore sneakers and sent their staff home where's the you breakdown if they were that aware the night

before and ithappens and looks like a tailgate party? i mean, nobody comes for hours and hours? >> you know, i think it is an excellent question and part of the problem is the nature in terms how these threats are viewed it's a democrat making these concerns, threats, and concern cries for help, it's viewed as oh, just upset because they're democrats and likewise for republicans. we didn't see that with 9/11 we see that here i think that's highly problematic. i think the partization of this, of intelligence and of these threats, the politicalization of it, is really a threat to national security in and of itself if we look at it that way. look, we're never going to have a situation where everyone is apolitical and every position is viewed apolitically. that's never going to happen but the highly charged

politicalization of all of this is extremely damaging to our national security and to keep our own citizens safe. >> yeah. i want to turn, joyce, to a better part of the story for doj. that's the fake electors scheme, which we know to be actively under criminal investigation with lots of subpoenas having been sent out even under this new special counsel. let me, again, go back to some of the testimony procured by, created by and presented to the public by the january 6th select committee about trump and rudy giuliani's role in the fake electors' scheme. >> what are we going to do >> this is rudy giuliani and janet ellis. we're calling you together, because we'd like to discuss obviously the election. >> what do you and i do as state ledge laters besides -- >> i understand you don't want to talk to me now. >> my recollection he said, we've got lots of theories we just don't have the evidence. >> i just want to bring some

facts to your attention. >> public pressure on state officials often grew dangerous in leadup to january 6th >> all: let us in! let us in! let us in! . >> all: special session! >> joyce, jocelyn benson will be on the show in the next hour and she's been on countless times. she still lives under active threats for her role in protecting democracy, and in the presidential election still. brad rfs rfrs on the other side of the ideological spectrum, his wife had text messages to then georgia senators kelly loeffler and others this threat to state officials who were not part of the coup attempt or could not be corrupted by rudy and janel and others is an ongoing one what do you see in what's public facing in terms of doj's investigation into the fake

elector scheme >> so, nicolle, we now know this is something the special counsel is looking at, and we know that, because when he issued subpoenas they became public because people who received subpoenas talk about them. and to the point that you and claire were making in the first segment today, this is a little disturbing, because it means we know that for most of 2021 if not all of it doj was simply absent from this space when it came to the fake elector story in georgia, where the former president is on audiotape threatening and con joling brad raffensperger, give me the 11,780 votes i need to win the election that i lost, doj is absent tr that space, and the fulton county district attorney has taken the lead on that so fast-forward to where we are today. it seems that the special counsel is now involved in that. it's troubling that that took

maybe a year and change to get there. we don't really understand why that happened, and what the thought process at doj was perhaps it's this, though. at doj when you make a decision about charging a case you have to look at two things. first of all, can you obtain a conviction is the evidence sufficient for you to do that and that's not quite as easy as being the committee, because you have to think about whether your evidence is admissible under the federal rules of evidence. w whether their defenses, the committee didn't have to grapple with potential defenses people might have and also how your witnesses will hold up under cross-examination, but even taking into account all of that, when we talk about the issues in the states, and the committee has now expanded that evidence to show over 200 times where people associated with trump reached out to state elected officials to try to force them this plan on them. it seems very likely that there

are cases that can be brought and the question largely will be whether doj has the will whether it still is concerned about indicting a former president, or whether it realizes that the only path forward at this point, if americans are going to have confidence in the integrity of the system is hold trump accountable for what he was so very clearly involved with. >> claire mccaskill, the last word tonight. >> well, i think this you know -- this is an incredible document, and i know very few americans will read the whole thing. i hope many will try i haven't gotten through the whole thing yet myself, but i certainly will there is volumes of evidence in four buckets and all of them damn this president, and accountability is really what has to happen now. i think one of the questions that still remains is where was the military and police and why did this happen? and i think, we need to continue to look at that question

congress needs to continue to look at it, because it feels like to me that they were worried about the politics because the military and police officers, their leadership never wants to get involved in a political fight, and to them, this felt like a political fight. and unfortunately, because of that, they were ill-prepare preparened and didn't take the warnings seriously and let's hope they've learned their lesson finally now, and this never is alloweds to hoop again. allowed to happen again. >> my thanks on this first day back to peter baker, joyce vance, claire mccaskill and tracy. incoming republican freshman george santos says he's coming clean now about the lies he told on the campaign trail. what the republican party knew about his resume and his lies before voters went to the polls is the subject of new reporting. we'll tell you about it, next.

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admitting to lying part of a stunning piece of reporting into allegations that he did just that lie. scathing "new york times" report saying he lied to voters now his constituents about multiple aspects, all aspects of his resume the lies didn't just come as a surprise to voters after the election "new york post" reports that "senior house republicans were aware of the inaccuracies and embellishments in santos' resume" and the topic became a running joke among them. nbc news tried to reach santos for comment. to be clear, embellishment is putting it lightly his interview with the "new york post," now calling him liar. "santos confessed he never worked directly for goldman sachs or citigroup chalking that fib up to a poor choice of words and never graduated from any

college, despite previously claiming to have received a degree from baruch in 2010 santos was also accused lying about his family history saying on his campaign website his mother was jewish and grandparents escaped nazis during world war ii and now says he's clearly catholic, but claimed his grandma told stories about being jewish and later converting to catholicism. santos also admitted to lying when he claimed he owns 13 different properties saying he now resides with his sister. but looking to purchase his own place. wow joining us, two former members of congress. former republican david jolly and former democratic member donna edwards, both msnbc contributors i don't know what to say anymore. to me this isn't really a story about lying liar-elect, a story about kevin mccarthy is sort of counts -- i don't know if this

rising to a tier one problem for mccarthy what do you think, david jolly >> let's use the term fraud. george santos is an absolute fraud. the worst nightmare you meet on a dating app now elected to the united states congress to your point, look, politics is full of frauds, but he actually could be the deciding vote as to whether or not kevin mccarthy becomes speaker of the house the leader of the republican party, and kevin mccarthy is silent and his unwillingness to suggest, for instance, santos should not be seated is very telling. the adjacent story to george santos is that kevin mccarthy is trying to become speaker of the house and needs 218 votes and doesn't have it. nicolle, you and i, the week of the election talked about this, and i suggested, i don't think kevin mccarthy becomes speaker of the house i will tell you this week all of the momentum is on the side of steve scalise of louisiana so if you take this analysis further to the context of your

question, it becomes, what republican is willing to distance themselves from george santos who is the republican willing to say, george santos does not belong in our caucus that is a very quiet chorus right now, in regards to george santos. >> i mean, donna, the problem, though, is deeper. i mean, republicans underperformed in the midterms to a variety of reasons but one is voters detected they stand for nothing. they don't even stand for protecting our democracy and the problem of -- i mean, mitch mcconnell is the same. yes, i think donald -- he won't say anything bad about donald trump, would vote for him again in 2024. mitch mcconnell is afraid of his own shadow his own shadow, he wouldn't yell at his own shadow because he wants that vote, too when you are afraid and political prisoner of your own unruly base, there is no bottom and you have a caucus full of

characters who are acting in ways that no public elementary school allows its students to act. what do you -- what do you make of the santos brand, attaching itself to this republican caucus >> well, the santos brand is actually now the republican brand. republicans accepted a liar when they accepted donald trump as their first nominee and then president of the united states, anden it continued to do that and so i think that santos is actually operating right on brand thinking that he can tell these lies, but still be seated as a member of congress, because there's nobody on the republican side who's going to stand up to him, and frankly, at this stage he's already pledged his support for kevin mccarthy, and so we can't depend on mccarthy standing up to george santos or calling out his behavior let's be really claear about this an embellishment is when you

say, for example, you went to college and graduated in four years but really did it in six what george santos did was actually lie about going to college at all lie about working at goldman sachs and citigroup. lying about his own, you know, sort of personal family history. i mean, calling himself a -- a jew and -- and, you know, i mean i just don't even know what to say about those kind of lies so i think the republican party right now is right on brand. filled with hypocrites and liars and -- you know, people who can shout the loudest. >> you know what i have spent a couple hours trying to figure out? why? the republican party elected donald trump, who was -- you know -- who -- i mean, why does someone think that republican voters care about goldman sachs and -- i mean, why -- do you have any theories on what's

wrong with the human being inside this sort of political scandal, david jolly >> so all politics are local candidates create narratives that they believe will best reflect their district and i suppose for santos he thought he was creating something that reflected his district what he was also creating was a fiction and it goes to the real heart and soul of george santos, the person i think the test for both santos and the republican party here is interesting, nicolle we are in a new era of politics. right? marjorie traylor greene, lauren boebert, matt gaetz, andy biggs, go down the list don't actually need the infrastructure of the party, don't need kevin mccarthy or steve scalise kevin mccarthy needs santos but george santos doesn't need mccarthy if you can nationalize your constituency, create this around your identity allowing you to build a national

consistency ound the party infrastructure, what they did and others does santos have that skill? who knows. the fate likely holds for santos he will be a short one-term member of congress if not shorter than that, but this is a guy who might create a national identity and become a hero to today's republican party, which reflects exactly what the gop is. >> it's so sad it would be funny if it wasn't so sad david jolly and donna edwards, sticking around. up next for us, hundreds of migrants put on buses on christmas eve. this really happened they were unsure where they were going and how long they would be on those buses the white house is now calling another cool political stunt by one of our country's republican governors. we'll tell you that story, next.

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it was really alarming to see how they came in many were just wearing t-shirts. some of them had blankets that you can see in some of the video, but those blankets were incredibly thin. some people didn't even have shoes on, just double layers of thick socks that were donated to them at some point during their journey. it was really quite alarming to see that political leaders have dumped them on the side of the road christmas eve in 18-degree weather. the most painful thing to watch, the children that are being

thrown into this game that our political leaders think is going to resolve anything. those children are the most innocent among all of this there are real human lives in the middle of all of this who are becoming victims of his stunts, which like this weekend, there is children not even 2 years old, toddlers, that are stuck in the middle of all of this >> that was claudia tristan. she is a volunteer with the migrant solidarity mutual aid network explaining to our friends at morning joe the heroic efforts that were taken on christmas eve to care for busloads of migrants that were shipped and stranded by texas governor greg abbott in washington, d.c. on christmas eve. she noted that they were left in below freezing conditions. it's just the latest stunt, though, by the texas governor. he has shipped thousands of human beings seeking asylum out

of texas in a series of political moves. and if there was any doubt about greg abbott's real motivation, claudia went on to say that her group has begged abbott to drop migrants off at the organization's relief center so they could care for them immediately. he instead left them outside of the vice president's house to garner political attention and footage for himself. catering to the most heartless elements of the modern republican party base. it is clear the cruelty is the point. we're back with david jolly and donna edwards. donna, this too seems to have been rejected by voters in these midterms what -- it is just a special brand of sadistic political insabrability to treat people this way >> it is so inhumane, and it's

hard to put words to it that governor abbott or governor desantis would do this to human beings in the washington, d.c. area, we recorded our coldest temperatures ever on christmas eve, and low temperatures as well on that evening when those buses arrived. and we can see that people are arriving who are vulnerable already, but they don't even have the clothing to be able to sustain those kind of temperatures and in a neighborhood that is a neighborhood where there is nothing else around there, and they were just dropped off i don't even know what to say. and to do it on christmas eve and to call yourself a christian, it's hard to reconcile that >> david jolly, our friends write this poisoned by the demagogues who speak of immigrants as invaders and warn of catastrophe if we don't close our border not only are they deceiving their audience, they're

coarsening it. in the finest traditions of this country which at its best have been a haven for the persecuted and a friend to the oppressed, they're treats friends as enemies. enemies would be entitled to the protections of the geneva conventions which would prohibit what greg abbott did on christmas eve. >> yeah, nicolle, whether or not white anglo christian largely republican males today recognize immigrants as our brothers and sister, they are this is a shameful, despicable scurrilous moment that deserves the scorn of the country by greg abbott, a practicing roman catholic who on the eve of the god he worships was a god who said what you do for the least of these, you do for me. and i doubt that the reflection that greg abbott left to his god that evening was one that perhaps he thinks it was but it's true. these are human people, human lives. these are people who we talk

about the kids, right? the ultimate sin if you will is to put a kid out in the cold on christmas eve. but think about these adults who made a journey of their life to try to create something for themselves and to provide for the safety and opportunity for the children, and governor abbott decided for political theater, as ron desantis did in the state of florida, that he would use those people in their most vulnerable moments and create a political opportunity for himselves to score points against the vice president and the president of the united states it's a shameful moment it deserves the scorn of the country, the scorn of people of faith, and those who perhaps choose no faith at all, but disgusting moment by the texas governor it is nothing more than that and we are grateful, we should be grateful as a country that there are human service organizations that are there to pick up those who are seeking refuge that governor abbott turned away. >> i always wonder too when i see it that if we refuse to air any of the footage, not just us,

but the places that they care about airing the footage like fox news, if they would still do it they're only sort of like a tree falling in the woods they want people to witness their cruelty. if no one publicized it, i wonder if they would still do it david jolly, donna edwards, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. it's great to see both of you. happy new year up next, more on the january 6th committee's final report its legacy and how it's changed the game for congressional investigations moving forward. n'dot go anywhere. we'll be right back. what will you do? ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with the tools and expertise you need to do incredible things. because we believe there's an innovator in all of us.

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the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. ingle grabbed his arm, said "sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel we're going back to the west wing." >> i said to him, "are you out of your f'ing mind?" i only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth from now on orderly transition >> do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states target you? the president of the united states is supposed to represent every american not to target one. >> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in the east. the january 6th select committee's final report, its final product is now published and has been entered into the historical record, which "the new york times" describes this way, quote, the lasting artifact

of a congressional inquiry premised on the belief that if democracy was sacred, then so too was the duty to investigate an attack on it. that description is part of an incredible inside look by "the times" into the congress coincidental investigative committee that investigated the deadly attack on the capitol incite bade twice impeached ex-president who denied he lost the election, a lie he maintains to this hour while the committee's final report holds great significance, so too do the public hears that preceded it. those hearings filled with stunning and memorable moments like the ones we just played of gripping testimony the committee redesigning the traditional congressional hearing, making their presentations must-see tv for millions of americans, and putting a bright spotlight on the fragility of our country's democracy. from that incredible times report, the format of the public sessions could not have been more different from the

traditional congressional hearing which traditionally affords each member five minutes to speak at their leisure, one after the other, often making for a windy, disjointed and difficult to follow proceeding, heavy on political speechifying, light on substance instead, the january 6th hearings were meticulously choreographed.s intentional, one senior staff member nothing was spontaneous. a standout aspect of the hearings, one of the committee the central cause of january 6th was one man, donald trump, who many others followed none of this would have happened without him. no man who would behave that way at that moment in time can ever serve in any position of authority in our nation again. he is unfit for any office tonight i say this to my republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible

there will come a day when donald trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain >> "the times" describes vice chair of that committee, liz cheney, as a woman singularly obsessed with the committee's work, who sacrificed her own political future ofor what she felt was right cheney had a significant hand in the writing and editing of the scripts. she also shaped the committee's process down to who was served subpoenas and lines of questioning. what was impossible to ignore in the end was cheney's contribution to a committee that was expected to flounder as so many other congressional hearing had before it. over the course of 18 months, the committee interviewed over a thousand witnesses, pored over a million documents, held nearly a dozen public hearings, and ultimately made the historic decision to refer an ex-president for criminal prosecution. "the times" concludes with this comment by a witness from the committee's fourth public hearing, judge michael ludig

quote, the congress had the highest obligation to conduct these hearings, and the hearing itself have been historic. we begin this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. luke broadweather is here. his by-line is on that reporting we just read from. kim at skins, senior opinion writer for "the boston globe" and the emancipator. she is also a msnbc political analyst. charlie sykes is here, editor at large of the bulwark, an msnbc contributor, and basil smythe is back, director of the public policy program at hunter college. luke, this is an incredible piece. i encourage everyone to read the whole thing. take me through -- take me through the revelations. >> sure. well, what we tried to do with this piece is take the reader as a sort of a fly on the wall

perspective into the 18-month investigation that the january 6th committee conducted. and there were a lot of closed door interviews, a lot of closed door meetings, most of their work was done in private we obviously saw those blockbuster hearings, but we try to put you in the room for each one of those decisions that they were making behind closed doors. and so the way we're able to do that is long hour, two hour, three-hour-long interviews with many of the key players in these decisions. so we would get four or five or six people to describe to us what happened at this meeting or that meeting, and then we were able to reconstruct that factoring in all the different points of view and so i think hopefully, if you read this piece, it's quite long, it takes about an hour to read, but if you reel read all of it, i think you come away with a very deep understanding of how the january 6th committee conducts this work and how they were able to break so much ground, more than perhaps any congressional investigation in a

generation >> we knew a little bit, probably from your reporting, luke, but say more about speaker nancy pelosi and liz cheney's relationship >> right well, so this would have been a surprise to anybody a year or two or three years ago that liz cheney and nancy pelosi would become allies on this very consequential committee, but nancy -- if you talk to the other members and staff on this committee, because liz cheney became quite powerful on the committee, and she sort of shaped the direction for much of the investigation. and if you talked to the members and staff, they will tell you that they believe a lot of that power came through soft power from nancy pelosi, that nancy pelosi was often behind some of the things that liz cheney was doing, that she agreed and set the direction for much of the committee. and the very fact that liz cheney was put in that role and she was given wide latitude to conduct the investigation that she saw fit was really an

unusual alliance i talked with some of the members who said when it first came up that liz cheney was to be the vice chair, that there was deep skepticism among some of the democrats, because they remember liz cheney as this partisan brawler who had attacked them and taken down some of their best ideas this is dick cheney's daughter there was a lot of deep skepticism but liz cheney sort of proved herself over and over again through the course of this investigation. and over time, the other members of the committee thought well, liz is so into this. she is so detail oriented, she is so aggressive we really need to defer to her around some of these key decisions. >> it's such an interesting and it was so opaque, the viewing public i want to read and ask you about what you and your colleagues report on cassidy hutchinson, clearly the sort of most electric public hearing, and her transcripts sort of pull the thread all the way to the final

report let me read some of what you guys write "on june 18th at 10:00 a.m., the nine committee members met in a room called a scif for sensitive compartmented information facility where they could receive classified information for the first time, cheney and thompson informed the others that they had been summoned back because cassidy hutchinson had shared explosive new revelations pertinent to their investigation. though they had planned for hutchinson to appear as a witness at a later hearing along with sarah matthews, cheney argued that her testimony could not wait, that they couldn't risk it leaking, and that hutchinson's safety was at issue. the hearing was scheduled for that same afternoon in three hours. we had heard rumors that this might have been the case i remember when this was scheduled, a lot of people had started to scatter it was the beginning of summer you really nail down a lot of the atmospherics around cassidy hutchinson's testimony explain some of that reporting to us. >> right i remember that was a surprise

hearing. i remember i was in florida and flew back for it, because it was called on short notice what i didn't know at the time was the other members of the committee outside of cheney and thompson hadn't been told what this meeting was about either. they were just told they need to get back on a plane and fly back to washington. so they're brought into the scif, secure room. and theyn they start laying out what cassidy hutchinson had said during her -- i believe it was her fourth interview at that point, when she had come back with a new attorney, and she had been much more expansive in her comments and i remember chairman thompson telling me he had a little bit of concern at the time because they kept getting more and more information. and he was wondering why didn't she tell us this at first? why is her story expanding but as they read the testimony, and as they listened to liz cheney and the presentation, they became convinced that she was telling them the truth and that in fact there was some even maybe a security threat they

needed to get this testimony out immediately. and so the hearing went forward as planned in just a few hours but it really gets to how quickly things were done with this committee, how decisions were made on the fly, and how the course of this investigation rested on some very key moments like that meeting in the scif about cassidy hutchinson's testimony. >> i mean, charlie sykes, one of the things that's so haunting, both from luke's reporting in the magazine and from cassidy hutchinson's transcript of her interviews, which came out at the very end of last week is how close to not happening that was. there was a ton of pressure on cassidy hutchinson, not only not to participate in a helpful way, but to be part of a cover-up and it seems to invite a whole host of questions about how rampant that was let me read this from the transcript cassidy recalling a conversation

with ben williamson, a top aide to mark meadows right before her second deposition. and he was, he said something to the effect of, well, mark wants me to let you know that he knows you're loyal, and he knows you will do the right thing tomorrow, and that you're going to protect him and the boss. you know he knows that we are all on the same team and we're all a family do well. let me know how it goes. if you pulled a crummy first draft of a script from a crummy mob movie, that's what the instructions from a third rate mob lawyer sounds like unbelievable >> mafia but to your point, none of this was inevitable none of this -- all of this was contingent, and i think this really comes through in luke's reporting with bob draper in the behind the scenes of this committee. and, you know, we can talk a lot about liz cheney and the role

that she played, but one of the decisive things she did was to convince young women like cassidy hutchinson to come forward. i don't know whether many of those witnesses would have come forward for say congressman schiff, but they did for liz cheney as much as she was the most valuable player, i have to say as you read through this story and the way that it played out, the other most valuable players are nancy pelosi, empowered liz cheney, which you discuss, but also the role that kevin mccarthy played and his stumbling, bumbling political malpractice in not having any republicans on this committee, which allowed them to create the narrative. and this was their major achievement. they connected the dots. they told the story. they showed the picture. they made a coherent narrative and it's hard to imagine that they would have been able to do that had there been republicans,

you know, throwing bombs throughout the entire process. so, you know, you see the individual, the role, the decisive role of those decisions. kevin mccarthy to not play ball. nancy pelosi to trust and empower liz cheney and then liz cheney playing the decisive role that she played in her partnership with chairman thompson, of course. not to dis any of the other members of the committee but the attempt to get cassidy hutchinson to be loyal that you just read, you know that that was also the script for everyone else who was subpoenaed or contacted by the committee and, you know, you have to assume that it worked over and over and over and over again so we're getting a glimpse of the way this white house operated, but also the way that they tried once again to cover up and to obstruct justice, and probably are still doing so. >> you know, charlie, have i the piece that you're talking about

nancy pelosi's really fateful decision to call kevin mccarthy's bluff i went back and was reminded that kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell were in before they were out they sent their designees, i believe it was congressman kako, jump in, luke, if i got any of this wrong. >> that's right. >> and went in and negotiated and achieved he got all of the terms for a bipartisan commission which would have had equal representation and bipartisan subpoena power he succeeded brilliantly and then mccarthy and scalise whipped those against the kako deal so this is what luke and robert draper report about pelosi's role in calling mccarthy's bluff. quote, the following day pelosi conferred with the committee members in a series of phone calls. she told them she felt unease about jim jordan and banks, and that chuck schumer, the senate

majority leader had already weighed in on the subject. do not seat them they're insane lofgren, raskin, cheney and thompson shared pelosi's concerns aguilar argued she should go ahead and seat all five republicans, but be prepared to remove them at a moment's notice pelosi made the decision, quote, i'll take the political hit, she told aguilar she added casually, it will only last ten minutes the hit may have lasted ten minutes, but i mean, charlie, the legacy of this report, what it may have kicked up and put into focus in terms of special counsel's investigation into the events of january 6th will last forever. >> no, you're right. there are three major goals to this committee and one would be to hold donald trump and his confederates legally responsible. number two would be to prevent his return to power. they had no control over that. but what they did have control over is they were able to tell the story and create this

historic record. and this historical record is extraordinary, and the detail, the just the texture of all of the ways in which donald trump conspired to overturn this election and i think one of the measures of their success has been how muted the blowback has been from the republicans who you would normally expect to rally around. and that may happen at some point. but i think it's notable, one of the biggest stories of the last several months the way in which they have decided that they're going to shuffle around, look at their shoes, and issue sort of pro forma responses to it. they are not echoing the kinds of ihink this is a measure of the success of this committee. and particularly, this is part of liz cheney's accomplishment that almost all of the voices that we heard testify in front

of this committee were republicans, were people from within the trump orbit itself. and i think that had a tremendous impact on this. >> ken, one of the things that's so interesting in this phase is doj is now looking at an 845-page -- basically a charging document created by former doj insiders, people lwe've never seen something like that where evidence is amassed in a congressional way, but by the same kinds of people with the same training, the same skill sets, the same acumen, the same sort of standards in terms of evidence and what not, the same writing style as the people that we never see and hear their work, except hen they do decide to charge someone. what do you make of that dynamic? >> i think that's a really important point, nicolle, and it's one i've been making,

particularly given this narrative, that this criminal referral from congress doesn't really carry a lot of weight of course the doj doesn't need a criminal referral, and the referral doesn't guarantee any action by the doj. but this is different. it's not just a speaking or messaging document for the reasons exactly like you said. the folks who put this together know exactly how the doj works, and they crafted it with that in mind, knowing what evidence they had, how that evidence might fit the elements of crimes, and exactly which crimes to suggest to the doj and keep in mind also, at the same time, the doj was not waiting on the committee both merrick garland and jack smith had already been in touch with the committee, had requested documents and testimony. there was already that crossover there as well as doing their own investigation. so everyone involved, both at the doj and as part of this committee's work were fully aware of how the other was working, what information might

be coming. and they weren't waiting until this last hearing to get started. >> all right no one is going anywhere when we come back, much more on exactly how the january 6th select committee turned the, shall we say, boring and formulaic congressional hearing that we knew into must-see tv that we've never seen before, and revealed to millions of americans just how close we came to losing our democracy. plus, how voters who based their vote on a rejection of these threats to democracy and voter fraud conspiracy theories as well as the rejection of the disgraced ex-president and his allies may have made all the difference in the results of the 2022 midterms. and later in the program, after a series of big wins in state houses in governors' races, democrats are planning to push back against the tide of gop-led voter suppression efforts where ever they can and expand voting access "deadline: white house"

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senator josh hawley also had to flee. earlier that afternoon, before the joint session started, he walked across the east front of the capitol. as you can see in this photo, he raised his fist in solidarity with the protesters, already amassing at the security gates we spoke with the capitol police officer who was out there at the time she told us that senator hawley's gesture riled up the

crowd, and it bothered her greatly, because he was doing it in a safe space, protected by the officers and the barriers. later that day, senator hawley fled after those protesters he helped to rile up stormed the capitol. see for yourself >> it was one of the standout moments from the january 6th select committee's hearings, senator josh hawley's profile in courage, sprinting away from a mob he helped rile up as law enforcement officials testified to, as they stormed the capitol. that little snippet of surveillance footage became an instant classic. but apart from the sheer comedic

genius that it inspired, that josh hawley moment and countless others allowed the january 6th committee hearings to achieve something no other congressional hearing in history has ever done these hearings and everything that emanated from them became must-see tv, appointment viewing for nearly 20 million americans. that was in large part thanks to a crack team of tv veterans who were, as "the new york times" reports, brought in at the 11th hour with a daunting task, to weed through almost a year's worth of evidence the committee had amassed. quote, nearly one thousand witness interviews, a million pages of documents from the national archives, hundreds of phone records, and hundreds of hours of never before seen footage that security cameras captured during the attack with just weeks to go before the first prime-time hearing, former abc news president james g goldsteen was brought in to make this television.

what have we got to which he was told, that's what you're hear for goldsten quickly recruited a staff, cobbled together a makeshift control room and got to work, which was no small feat given that, "the new york times" puts it the individuals making the recordings were superb lawyers. as videographers, they left something to be desired. in fact, they were lucky the depositions were recorded at all. but as the select committee members would soon learn, having a team of ace producers would be a game-changer not just for these congressional hearings, but for all future congressional hearings the proverbial bar has officially been raised we're back with our panel. luke, i want to get into this tick-tock of how james goldston came ton i don't want to gloss over this josh hawley moment it was put to music. it inspired a thousand memes this great recording about the reaction when it was preserved to the committee itself.

a video clip of hawley and the others running was played to the members. cheney ordinarily a stoic presence cracked up. then she had a request would you run that again later that night, however, the production team was told that the hawley footage would have to be shortened to avoid showing the faces of others who were not public figures around 2:00 a.m., the producer, melinda aarons found out about the drastically truncated footage. now she had a solution she would run the video clip of him running first at normal speed, and then a second time in slow motion. at the element monty pythonesque spectacle of the slender 42-year-old senator sprinting across the hallway in his suit and dress shoes. the audience erupted in laughter the footage could spawn a host of hawley running memes, accompanied by soundtracks like rocky and chariots of fire it was really a moment i think that captures this never before combination of the sort of best

in their industry television producers and minds and this committee with a single task of outing the people that brought on january 6th >> right and you can see how last-minute everything was people are changing the tape at 2:00 in the morning, right before the hearing i mean, it was really a sprint the people we talked to for the story often spent sleepless night after sleepless night producing these hearings i mean, in some cases, they were putting on what was essentially a two or three-hour documentary in the span of ten days or two weeks or sometimes even less time but one thing they did at these hearings, as heavy as everything was, they did always spark -- put in a little bit of dark humor every time and this happened at hearing after hearing, whether it was bill barr cursing, or eric herschmann's colorful language,

or richard donoghue's putdown of jeffrey clark, the hawley moment there was always something that made the audience laugh in the middle of all this terror and depression, which you could get from just watching these hearings and i talk with some of the committee about that decision to put in some of those lighter moments, and they said, look, it wasn't to make fun of anybody in particular, just to do it. it wasn't gratuitous it was because in hawley's case, he had done things to fire up the crowd. he had acted one way publicly and then privately, when the check came due, he was running from the mob and so it wasn't just to take a shot at hawley it was because it was bigger point here about the hypocrisy of it all. so yes, it was funny, but it was also an important point to make. i think the little anecdote of that story is really telling throughout this whole committee came together and their decision-making process.

>> so basil, i accept that the testimony tying the incitement of hawley's fist raised is tied to him run, but it is also essential cheney to be so savage as to make a mockery of one josh hawley. >> no, that's absolutely right one of the things that i had been concerned about when we heard that the committee was going be formed and how they would go about their work is how easily would their work be dismissed over time? because it's one thing as charlie's on today, you know, when we talk some weeks or months ago about the toxic masculinity coming out of the white house and the effect on young people that that has but the question i always had is how are we going to tell this story in a concise but powerful way? and, you know, a "new york times" report earlier said the committee had an uninterrupted narrative to be able to tell that story

and it was -- it's incredibly important. it's incredibly powerful and when we say -- i may not remember what you said, but i remember how you made me feel, that is the product of what this committee has -- has brought to the american voter i may not remember, and most voters may not remember who exactly testified, but they will remember what they saw on january 6th and how that made them feel. they will remember that january 6th committee brought about testimony from police officers, capitol police officers, from the republicans within the administration, and that they felt scared not only to be able to step up to the plate to testify, but that everything around us, not just on january 6th, but subsequent to that with respect to challenges to getting to being able to vote, all of what was brought bythe trump administration and by his allies to say that they were attempting

to governor by any lies necessary. the january 6th committee said this cannot go forward and i think the american public felt, not just saw, but felt that they were in danger, that democracy was in danger. and if the committee's role was to create that emotional connection and that passion for what government should be and what it wasn't over the last few years, but particularly leading up to and subsequent to january 6th, they did an extraordinary job. >> i mean, kim, just to come back to where we started with luke's reporting, that nancy pelosi knew that would be the case, that nancy pelosi knew that after two impeachments where republicans didn't have the you know whats that they all knew would have been the right thing to do, to put liz cheney in the cockpit with chairman bennie thompson, to try to do something about her own party, and to do what i think basil just articulated perfectly, to

make people feel how dishonorable and disgusting this was. >> i think that's absolutely right by putting her and adam kinzinger on this committee, to have it be both bipartisan, but also serious, because she understood this story that basil so correctly said needed to be told to the american people, but also understood the seriousness, the seriousness of the task, and didn't want anything to deviate away from that and she was right. the outcry that came from republicans being taken off this committee was short-lived, but the regret i would imagine on kevin mccarthy's part for not having any sort of pushback at all. keep in mind donald trump was off twitter by that point. he did not have the same sort of peanut gallery of supporters within that chamber making the daily, you know -- making his often false case on a daily

basis and drawing attention away from the importance of what was happening. this committee had the undivided attention of americans during the summer it was quite remarkable as it was happening in realtime. it was even more compelling than i was anticipating so speaker pelosi was very keen in understanding that. >> you know, charlie, just listening to kim talk about it, it was the beginning of summer kids are out i remember feeling like oh my god, and i hadthe privilege of getting to co-host in the evenings with my colleagues. but i remember kind of feeling privately, this better be good, and every single time this committee blew the doors off, night after night. they raised expectations for themselves this high and then hearing after hearing would come in this high. and it all ties back to this combination of the skill of the production value, the quality of the production, and the quality

of the evidence that was produced and no matter what republicans think they're going go in and do once they're done putting the liars in charge of this and that, there is no erasing what republicans and trump's own inner senior staffers have testified to, which is trump incited an insurrection, trump revelled in the insurrection, and trump is still proud to have created an insurrection. >> what the committee decided was this was serious, but they did not have a moral obligation to be boring and i think this was a response to the asymmetry of the trump years that we saw during the mueller investigation, where you have donald trump, who is the master of bluster and television up against somebody who is playing by different rules and i think that that -- and in luke's reporting this comes through, they were sort of haunted by the final hearing with bob mueller but what they decided was that we're going to play on -- we're

not going to play by those rules anymore. so it struck me again and again as i was watching this that the one person who understood how dangerous and damaging this was, although he probably did not fully appreciate it was donald trump himself. and try to imagine donald trump watching this realizing wait, they are putting on a television show they are making a documentary. they are bringing on to the national stage people who look like they are from central casting, because of course that's the way he thinks so in many ways this was donald trump's worst nightmare. >> luke, to you and your colleague robert draper, congrats of an incredible piece of reporting thank you for joining us today to talk about it kim atkins store and sharelly psychs, thanks for starting us off this hour. basil sticks around was. when we come back, there is new reporting on how a significant and important slice of american voters rejected the

extremism and the anti-democratic direction of this gop and wound up playing the decisive role in the 2022 midterms the winner of one of those pivotal races, michigan's secretary of state jocelyn beonns joins us next don't go anywhere. my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis... the tightness, stinging... the pain. emerge tremfyant®. with tremfya®, most people saw 90% clearer skin at 16 weeks. the majority of people saw 90% clearer skin even at 5 years. serious allergic reactions may occur.

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watching steve kornacki watch the results come in, it became clearer and clearer to everyone that not only would there be no midterm red wave, but with the help of a small group of independent and republican voters, there would be a wholesale rejection of election-denying candidates who were seeking control over the next election. "the new york times" today has taken a look at the group of republicans and independents who were concerned enough about the state of our democracy, this, quote, precariously narrow but consequential slice of the elect rather that broke with the gop and its election lies, fed up with election deniers like doug mastriano, who promised to install a secretary of state in pennsylvania who would do his and donald trump's bidding from that "times" report today, quote, it was so reprehensible, that's pennsylvania republican joe m molller

i didn't want anybody like that. discernible surveys and interviews did not necessarily lay to rest concerns about the ability of the election system to withstand the new pressures unleashed upon it by mr. trump, but they did suggest a possible ceiling on the appeal of extreme partisanship, one that prevented in this cycle the worst fears for the health of democracy from being realized joining us now, michigan's democratic secretary of state jocelyn benson, who won reelection this november, defeating a trump-backed election denier. basil is still with us madam secretary, i feel like this is something we intuited and we talked about, and something you, you know, knew or felt or were hearing in michigan but this reporting that looks at states like yours and says that there really was a limit on the appeal of this anti-democratic extremism in the republican party is at once reassuring and makes me sort of want to put together the coalition for

democracy to be a permanent voting block how do you read these stories and these reports? >> yeah, exactly what we saw on the ground leading up to election day really throughout the last year was reflected in the data, which is that voters saw democracy was on the ballot. that it wasn't a partisan issue, it was an american issue it was one that we could all come together around, form a nonpartisan pro-democracy coalition of voters. and my hope is the article talked about it being a narrow slice of folks who were willing to cross over and see this as a nonpartisan issue. we've got to expand that coalition, expand that slice in the months and years ahead though election denialism was proven to be a losing strategy, it still is a strategy, and it's one we can expect to be leveed in the 2024 cycle. >> and you and governor whitmer, you had the ability as an entire ticket to communicate these themes about democracy and

freedom. and i know governor whitmer tied them to the extreme policies on abortion embraced by the republican party and this very conservative supreme court josh shapiro was able to do that in pennsylvania. is there like an ongoing conversation about what worked, about what you did that worked, about what governor whitmer did that worked, about what josh shapiro did that worked? >> yes we are collaborating, particularly in the six battleground states, arizona, nevada, georgia, michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania. we've been talking regularly throughout the cycle, but we recognize how powerful that coordinated message was, that unified message, to say to every voter, not just our democracy, but your rights, your fundamental freedoms are on the line, and they continue to be on the line so one of the strengths actually coming out of the 2020 election cycle was all of us in these six states in particular looking around and saying we're battling the same thing let's work together in our response and i think you saw that play out in a coordinated effort in

'22, and we're just going to get stronger now, because we've got more players, more folks on the field in nevada and other states so we have now expanded our coalition for '24, and it makes me encouraged. but, again, we need the voters to continue to prioritize democracy in order for our strength to really be realized >> you know, basil, i want to bring you in because you are a student of sort of elections and better behaviors the way i am. i see this real structural opportunity for democrats with this coalition of voters that -- and i think oz was the one who said it. inside every woman's decision about her body and her pregnancy will be a doctor, a woman, and a local politician i mean every now and then republicans let slip what they really believe and you can extend their putting government in the room for voting i mean, they want to decide

whose votes count, they want to decide who counts the votes. you can put the republican grab away from freedom and anti-democratic practices across just about every debate going on in this country. what do you make of the opportunity before democrats right now to really expand their coalition. >> well, it's an important one, because as you say, independence really saved democrats in this cycle. but one of the concerning metrics that i heard the other day was that in new york, for example, democrats are the largest voting bloc, but independents are now the second biggest voting bloc, outnumbering republicans in this state. which suggests not only have in many ways republicans turned off a lot of voters, that it's an opportunity for democrats to also come in and say here your choice here is a choice between democracy and a choice between or lies. here is a choice between moving forward or a choice moving backward

and, look, i am a couple of weeks away from my 51st birthday a proud carrier of an aarp card, by the way i woke up run morning and realized that so much of what i had taken for frgranted from a policy perspective are right, opportunities, whether it's being able to cast my vote or abortion rights, reproductive rights so many of those things were under fire in an america that i thought we had long since passed and i think for voters, they have woken up and said well, if it can go that quickly, maybe i should get involved. maybe i should be engaged. and over these last few years when we've learned about the powers of the secretary of state, it's been an incredible civics lesson for the country to say these races matter elections matter all of these seats should be contested. and we need to hear more from our candidates and our leaders about what they're going to do

because all of the sudden, things we realize how quickly things can change. something we've taken for granted, even been complacent about can change a guy in new york right now, george santos whose entire resume is a work of fiction, and he was elected to congress and there are very few ways now to keep him from taking his seat that cannot continue to happen and i think more and more of us are becoming aware of it >> well, and i mean, just to the point, the republican party will make a space, a spot, probably a front row seat for someone who's entire resume was fabricated because it's not even the worst sin committed by the republican congressional caucus i'm going ask you to stick around up next for us, democrats going on the offense on one of the central issues to our democracy, something we've covered a whole lot here, and that is voting rights that story is next

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you'll also receive a free tote bag to share your support ♪♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. this idea we're seeing across -- in other states where there's this attempt to make it more difficult to vote, in minnesota we want to make it as easy as possible we're going to lean into that, codify that, and put up a fire wall this attack on voting rights is an attack on the democracy and

it's going to end. >> talking about the plans he has to protect voting rights after an election in which voters roundly rejected big lie republicans in key races there's new reporting by "the new york times" that reveals that democrats are now deciding to go on the offensive on voting rights all across the country with a list of proposals intended to strengthen democracy, including automatic voter registration and criminalizing misinformation about our elections. we're back with squjocelyn bensn jocelyn i feel like this is something you have been working on in michigan since we got to know you on the show what does this look like in michigan and how do you scale this >> first we recognize that election security means protecting the security of election workers, so our first and top priority is going to be enacting more protections for election workers and funding to make those a reality that will go part be parcel with

expansion so we can ensure now we have early voting, that citizens know the ability to vote now nine days before any election the funding is going to be critical i was disheartened to see the congressional package not include as much funding as called for for our elections, so we're going to be seeking funneding from the state as well but it will be a combination of funding, increased protection for officials, and increased opportunities to expand the press for particularly young voters, who have shown themselves to be a growing part of the electorate here in michigan and ensuring we're meeting them where they are on college campuses and elsewhere to ensure registration and voting opportunities. >> college students, and you know this better than i do, jocelyn, have some of the worst lines and biggest hurdles to voting that seems intentional by republicans. what can be done outside of states where democrats in control of the levers of power

>> you can take the philosophy of meeting the young people and students where they are. actually having drop boxes on campuses voter registration drives encouraged and supported by state officials on college campuses, but also having a polling place, a precinct on college campus we launch add a collegiate task force in michigan and asked students, what do you need to see more of your fellow students voting registering everyone when they register for classes automatically. registering new students as they enrolled was key, and then making sure there are places on campus to buy the return ballots or vote. all those things helped us dramatically increase college participation, and it's something you don't registration, just working in partnership with universities to make real. >> and the desire to have everybody participate in our universities jocelyn benson, thank you so much bazzle smichael, thank you for

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes disturbing these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with katie phang in for ari melber. >> i am in for ari melber. we start today with the spotlight squarely and directly on donald trump in the aftermath of the release of the january 6th report committee member jamie raskin saying it is clear the doj should indict the former president. >> it's just wrong t