for our west coast friends as we begin the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 9:00 a.m. here in the east. 6:00 a.m. in the city of angels.

we're in for joe, mika and willie. making headlines this morning, the death toll in new york state rises after that epic winter storm. we're going to go live to buffalo where a driving ban remains in effect amid efforts to clear the roads. southwest airlines continues to struggle to recover from the storm. thousands more flights expected to be canceled today as transportation secretary pete buttigieg calls for accountability. plus, title 42 stays in place for now. the covid era policy that allows officials to turn away migrants at the border. we'll break down what this means for the crisis at the southern border. as we begin our fourth hour, we have a lot to get to. we'll start with the rising

death toll in western new york. >> officials warning it's not over yet as they have to clean out. in erie county there's reported three additional deaths yesterday and that brings the total to 31 lives lost. buffalo, that's still under a driving ban this morning because work crews are trying to clear the streets after the storm dumped 40 inches of snow on the city. don't go in your car unless you really need to. let's bring in jessie kirsch who joins us live from buffalo. what's the latest on the recovery effort? >> reporter: good morning. you can see we have a lot of snow on the ground. some of the roadways covered in varying degrees of snow. we're still under a travel ban in the city. officials are warning people there are military police enforcing that ban on those getting in the way of

much-needed cleanup. with rescues by snowmobile, and enough snow in some areas to make plows useless, buffalo's recovery is far from over as the sobering death toll in western new york climbs to at least 34. the city's deadliest snow storm in history -- >> police and fire believe the number will rise as we're able to get more snow cleared, get into more homes. >> reporter: this woman died while waiting for help. her family says a resident discovered her body on christmas eve. >> i'm feeling a lot of emotions. i'm sad and angry. >> reporter: buffalo's mayor believes every vehicle abandoned has been checked for survivors and says authorities are marking them with tape after they've done a check. vehicles amid the piles of snow

as state police released a video showing how they're removing them by forklift. >> this is -- this is the most extreme snow fall i've ever seen in my life. >> you know snow here? >> been here 30 years. >> reporter: out west parts of washington state, oregon and northern california reportedly hit by six to eight inches of rain this week. the rockies anticipated 8 to 12 inches of snow today. back in buffalo, amid the tragedy, the community bans together. one woman facebook live streaming what she says was her mother's rescue. >> my mother is disabled, been out lights, gas, food, water. this is amazing. this is god's work. >> reporter: temperatures here will jump to the 50s on friday. there's also rain coming which

means we'll see a rapid melt and now there's the possibility of flooding heading into the upcoming holiday weekend. >> jessie, thank you very much. it's so hard to imagine being stuck in cars when it's so freezing. those poor families knowing that loved ones died and couldn't be rescued in time. the troubles continue for southwest airlines. more than 2,500 additional flights are expected to be canceled today. the airline said it could take days to resume normal operations. that's more than 8,000 canceled flights since monday. southwest's ceo says the airline has been unable to get flight crews where they need to be. in an interview transportation secretary pete buttigieg demanded that southwest take care of stranded passengers and employees. >> they told me in their words

they will go above and beyond their written customer service plan. i'll be holding them accountable for doing that. >> does that mean financial compensation? >> absolutely. at a minimum there needs to be cash refunds for canceled flights and they need to be taking care of passengers where they got stuck with meals, hotel compensation. they put up a website to get requests in. we're hearing from passengers who haven't been able to get to anybody on the phone. i'm looking to the airline to make sure they're not just meeting the bare minimum, but taking care of passengers who are stuck. while we all understand you can't control the weather, this has clearly crossed the line from an uncontrollable weather situation to something that's the airline's direct responsibility. >> the department of

transportation said they'll take action to hold southwest accountable. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin. obviously southwest shares responsibility. does anyone have a sense of why southwest was hit so badly compared to other airlines? >> reporter: there's the operational issues at southwest, which is to say they didn't have things in place. they didn't have the right technology and communication both to passengers and also to their flight crews in terms of being able to get to them to say you need to be here and here in ways that some of the other airlines were. the larger implications are not just for southwest. they're for the larger airline industry across the board which is going to have a meaningful in this country about what it means to have a bill of rights for passengers and what the costs

are going to be on the airlines and, by the way, ultimately on the passengers. which is to say you could see regulations around airlines and the type of compensation that's provided in europe for delays, for cancellations and the like. missing a holiday like christmas for many families is a priceless situation. of course, being able to get paid or paid something is the issue. what that does to the finance of the airlines becomes an issue, but there's the bigger question of what that does to prices for airlines. they're going to try to pass some of that on to passengers. >> mike barnacle? >> andrew, before we have that conversation to help consumers, how does southwest airlines survive something like this in terms of a marketing problem?

>> reporter: you know, you and i think very much alike on these issues. however, the truth is when you look at data and you look at how consumers, not business customers, but consumers, us, buy airline tickets, with the exception of southwest for many years, we weren't that brand loyal. there's loyalty programs and people have loyalty credit cards for trying to build up miles and such, but most people buy based on the price and schedule. that's what it has been. you rarely see people run reputational campaigns around airlines because the goodwill doesn't matter. unfortunately these airlines know that. we talk about the concentration and monopoly power of airlines throughout this country -- now southwest may be in a different

situation because people are loyal to them. there's a brand they've built. i don't know if they get around that, but i don't think unfortunately or fortunately that the market powers, if you will, are there in the way there are for other products. >> let's talk about another company that's been taking it on the chin, tesla. shares dropped 11% yesterday and are down 44% in december. obviously a lot of concern about how elon musk is running twitter spilling over here. is this the bottom? where does this company go from here? >> reporter: you know, it's hard to know. right now from a valuation perspective the company trades in terms of market cap at something -- not even market cap, sort of a price to earnings basis, five times where general motors does.

you have to figure out is tesla a car company or something else? they have charging stations. they're building solar and other component parts. you have to decide what's going on here. a lot of this has to do both with elon musk's commentary on twitter, the sense that he's just either not paying attention to tesla -- some people got anxious towards the end of the year. they've said they're trying to get deliveries, people to take their cars, their deliveries by end of year to make their numbers. all of that is a bit in the soup and people are trying to figure out what's going on. some people think this is a bottom or it's a price that makes more sense. for many, many years elon musk said tesla, if you can believe this, was overvalued. he said it out loud. >> andrew, one more story and

that's how the biden administration is considering new measures for travellers from china, citing concerns on the ongoing covid-19 surge and the lack of transparent data from beijing. u.s. officials said the lack of data from china makes it extraordinarily difficult for health officials to identify any new variants and take steps to reduce the spread. the move comes after japan and malaysia announced their own measures on travellers from china. japan saying they'll require a negative covid-19 test upon arrival from travellers from china tomorrow. malaysia put in place tracking and surveillance measures. this as hospitals in china are scrambling to cope with an unprecedented surge of covid. china said it would start requiring travellers to

quarantine at the end of the month. countries are tightening restrictions. here in the u.s., give us your analysis as to what we see there and the economic impact of the potential restrictions and this ongoing incredible surge in covid infections. >> there's the human issue which is there's going to be deaths. we spoke to the former head of the fda and member of the board of pfizer about this this morning. scott gottlieb. a lot of the west has been asking china to open up, but at the same time we're seeing this remarkable surge. dr. scott gottlieb suggested he doesn't think the surge is going to be a one or two-month situation, but may last six months or more. that's got huge implications for

the supply chain and costs for americans and others throughout the world. i think that what we're seeing is the beginning unfortunately in terms of the covid wave. there may be multiple waves in china and the question is westerners or others who want to do business in china, yes, it may be open, but folks might not want to go there. then there's the secondary issue of folks from china wanting to go to other parts of the world and whether the variants in china are more contagious or less contagious and we don't know the answer. that's why the u.s. is being so cautious. >> lots of worrisome headlines there. there's the economic impact in

china to be sure, but these are people's lives and there's this growing fear that outbreak is massive and lengthy and could give rise to new variants that could sweep the globe and impact everybody else. >> i saw one headline that half of beijing was infected with covid. we can't rely on the data coming out of the country and the government isn't releasing data on the number of people dying. we're getting social media pictures and video from hospitals that are completely overwhelmed. it looks like what we saw in new york at the beginning of the crisis and the chinese they've gone for lifting zero covid, but the fallout will be catastrophic. the house select committee investigating january 6th has released more documents. it includes cassidy hutchinson's

testimony. they claim she saw former white house chief of staff mark meadows burning documents between december 20th and january of 2021. there were reports that meadows burned papers after his meeting with scott perry. they also released the transcript of eugene scalia. they showed he talked to bill barr after the capitol attack and barr advised him to resign. when asked why he declined to take barr's advice, he said he thought working within the administration to so-called steady the ship would have greater value. let's bring in joyce vance, an

msnbc legal analyst. it's never a good look when people are burning papers in their white house office fireplace, right? >> that's an enormous understatement. people are talking about the burning of papers. it's a violation of the official records act. this goes deeper than that. the notion you have the chief of staff to the president of the united states and he's so disturbed by meetings he's having that he feels like he has to burn evidence of those meetings, that's something doj will want to sink its teeth into. witnesses won't be able to bob and weave, they won't be able to avoid testifying. if doj wants mark meadows testimony, it can get it by a series of means. it looks like meadows has a lot

of exposure here. doj will be able to get that testimony one way or the other. >> joyce, i'm going to ask you to put on your old prosecutor's hat which i suspect is never far from you. the department of justice has received the house january 6th committee's recommendations. from your knowledge which is superficial in one sense, it's just what we've been able to read, what's the most promising avenue for a potential indictment of the president? >> that's a big question. you're right the former prosecutor hat tends to stick around, which means that something that's been really intriguing about the dump of all these transcripts is that the american people in essence have doj's case file on the former president as regards january 6th. this is the evidence that doj

uses to assess what charges it might pursue. the one charge that looks like it's dead on the money here, almost as though the statute was written with trump's activity around the 2020 election in mind, is interference with an official proceeding, obstruction of an official proceeding, which is congress' meeting to certify the result of the election of january 6th. that doesn't require the use of violence or force like a seditious conspiracy charge. it doesn't have the first amendment problem that might be implicit in charging trump with events surrounding his speech on january 6th. what it requires is the proof of this extension course of conduct to interfere with january 6th and that's what we see with trump. there's this funnel of activity that starts with lawsuits and as the lawsuits don't pan out, we see ongoing efforts -- the report documents more than 200 efforts to reach out to state

officials, to try to get them to decertify and change the results of their election and ultimately we end up with the pressure campaign on mike pence, the effort to subvert doj. all these facts will allow doj to investigate and build a powerful narrative that will hopefully result in the indictment of donald trump. one thing the american people need to know -- this permeates the transcripts, trump's efforts to extract loyalty from everyone around him and these repeated threats against witnesses who do not apparently appear to be lining up with loyalty, the american people need to know their president serves them and not his own self interests. >> joyce, let's read from your newest opinion piece which is titled "trump's obstruction of justice, criminal referral matters." you argue that what some allies

of the former president may wave off as a process crime could be what ultimately does him in. if people who commit crimes take the step of trying to cover them up, a series of provisions in the federal criminal code permit prosecutors to indict. there are statutes prohibiting people who buy off witnesses, ship them out of town to keep them from testifying or harm them. it also addresses people who tamper with or destroy evidence or try to interfere with an investigation. attempting to obstruct, even if unsuccessful, is a crime. people don't obstruct justice in a vacuum. they obstruct to conceal other crimes. here the crimes include obstructing an official proceeding because donald trump wanted to stay in power after voters told him know. doj would do well to take up the

mantle the january 6th committee has handed them and hold trump and his friends accountable. i can't help but think about the robert mueller investigation where they zeroed in on obstruction. talk to us more about what you're seeing here and is that going to be, in your estimation, the easiest charge for prosecutors to make. >> i'm not sure if it's the easiest charge, jonathan, but in some says as prosecutors view these things it's among the most righteous of charges. our criminal justice system is a search for the truth. it's about accountability. it's about ensuring that people follow the law. when you have someone who not just on one occasion, but who consistently tries to cover up conduct and conceal crimes, ultimately for the criminal justice system to have

legitimacy, it has to address that. we remember the earliest moment where we knew something was wrong. it was when jim comey said that trump tried to extract a loyalty pledge, personal loyalty, not feelty to our laws and constitution. this obstruction of justice thread that starts with the mueller report and the ten instances that mueller found of obstruction of justice potentially by the former president that couldn't be addressed then because he was a sitting president, now we still have that obstruction of justice. this is something that prosecutors do take seriously because if people get away with obstructing justice, prosecutors can't do their jobs. although the center piece of trump's conduct is the effort to interfere with the vote certification, and that has to be addressed along with

mar-a-lago where there's a theme of obstruction, we can look at prosecutors to make a case for obstruction of justice. most notably we have cassidy hutchinson's last two transcripts, one with her lawyer, who in her testimony is trying to constrain the testimony and then we have her first testimony with her new lawyer jodi hunt where she tells more of the truth to the january 6th committee. we don't know where on the timeline phone calls are made to her encouraging her to stay on board. this is an instance of obstruction, of potential witness tampering is very serious that doj is likely to pursue. >> we can read more on your piece on msnbc's website. joyce vance, thank you for joining us.

coming up on "morning joe," the latest on the war in ukraine where russia forces have stepped up in the city of kherson. also the supreme court blocks the biden administration from ending the covid era policy that allowed officials to turn away migrants at the border. we'll be joined by a texas congressman to find out what this means for the ongoing immigration crisis. "morning joe" will be back in just a moment. oe" will be back just a moment. people over 50. and it could strike at any time. think you're not at risk? wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention.

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the court is not going to decide until june apparently. in the meantime we have to enforce it. >> that was president biden departing for vacation last night weighing in on the supreme court's decision to keep pandemic-era limits on asylum in place.

title 42 was enacted during the height of the pandemic that allowing asylum seekers to come to the united states. conservative justice neil gorsuch voted against the policy to keep title 42 place. he noted that the states don't dispute the public health implication has lapsed. he also said while states may have valid concerns, quote, the

current border crisis is not a covid crisis. the supreme court's order says that while it prevents title 42 from being set aside it doesn't prevent the federal government from taking action with respect to the policy. the court agreed to hear arguments in february with a decision due by the end of june. the high court's decision comes as data collected by u.s. customs and border protection shows in the 2022 fiscal year the grand total of southwest land border encounters is 26% higher than last year. joining us now texas congressman henry cuellar. thank you for joining us. you've been tweeting about what's been happening along the

southern border. just give us some sense of what it's like on the border at the moment. >> we've got to understand the border communities are taking the brunt of everything that's happening. i can understand the buses are going up to chicago, to new york and washington, d.c., but they're only getting a drop of what we face in the border communities. yesterday some of the border patrol chiefs were getting the community ready, saying if title 42 goes away, we're going to be overwhelmed and we have to start releasing people in the streets. title 42 was stayed by the supreme court and here we are with a little time for the administration to come up with a policy. there are some laws on the books right now that can work, but they have to tweak the policy on how they enforce those books. i'm talking about title 8.

president obama had title 8. he did not use title 42 and he was able to treat the migrants with respect and dignity, but at the same time he deported the ones that had no right to be here. >> congressman, as you say, this decision gives you some time, the country some time to come up with a solution. give us a few recommendations for a long-term fix, but also in the short term what do these border towns need? >> first of all, we need to have -- keep in mind, yes, we need to put more money for personnel, equipment, technology at the border. you have to have the right policy at the border. of course you have to work with the -- our friends to the south, mexico and central america. you have to have the policy. look, title 8 allows people to come in, ask for asylum, except it takes a long time to send

them back. it takes months. if that could be expedited, have a process where they can have their day in court and still be expedited out for the ones who aren't supposed to be here, have people ask for asylum in an orderly way instead of coming in between ports, that will provide an orderly pathway for asylum, but at the same time consequences. if you get deported, under the law you can be banned from coming back again for asking for asylum for 5, 10, 20 years or even permanently depending on the facts. there things in the law that can be applied, but they have to find a way to expedite that. >> mike barnacle? >> congressman, some of us

recall a time when people like former senator alan simpson of wyoming worked with ted kennedy trying to fashion a sensible immigration statute that would help. that was 40 years ago in the united states senate. today we're facing something you know is just an incredible mess. what do we do going forward about part of the problem in this mess, countries like guatemala and mexico specifically, that allow this torrent, this parade of desperate human beings to travel through their countries and collapse the border? >> that's a very good point, two good points. one of the best immigration proposals i saw was kennedy and mccain just some years ago. it's something we don't have to reinvent the wheel. it's already there. we have to have the initiative, the fortitude to get it done.

as you know, the other party at times republicans would say secure the border, then we can do this. so the goal post keeps moving. let me say this, mexico and other countries have certain laws on the books right now. for example, mexico has a law that says that migrants or anybody has to come through a port of entry, an airport and leave the same way. what they're doing is against mexican law. so we have to get the mexicans and other countries to do more, otherwise we're going to be playing defense on the one yard line, called the u.s. border, instead of playing defense on their 20 yard line. we have to do something more. one more thing, the top 15 countries coming in, it's mexico, columbia, and of course venezuela, nicaragua and also

includes in the top 15, india, russia, turkey and the country of georgia. central america countries, at least the last few months, are in the middle of the pack and not what they used to be at the top of the pack some years ago. >> a complicated issue and one that's going to stay in the headlines. democratic congressman henry cuellar of texas, thank you. >> thank you. still ahead here on "morning joe," the vatican is pleading for prayers for pope benedict. we'll have the latest on the health of the former head of the catholic church. plus, a live report from ukraine as fighting intensifies in the southern part of the country. "morning joe" will be back with that. wow! what'd you get, ryan? it's customized home insurance

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in ukraine the southern city of kherson is facing a barrage of russian artillery, just after six weeks ukrainian forces liberated the city. matt bradley joins us live from kyiv with the latest.

matt? >> reporter: that's right, jonathan, kherson has endured relentless attacks all week. this morning kherson under fire once again. only weeks ago, these civilians were welcoming ukrainian liberators, now new russian bombardments tuesday have sent them fleeing. russian artillery attacks on christmas eve killed 11 people according to the region's governor. this woman's son is dead. [ speaking in non-english ] >> reporter: i urged him to wake up and leave the house, but he didn't and that was it. our lives are ruined. the fiercest battles are in the east. among ukraine's longest battles

so far. [ speaking in non-english ] >> reporter: areas in donbas require maximum strength and concentration now. the situation there is difficult and painful. the constant drum beat of war a routine rhythm for many. [ speaking in non-english ] >> reporter: you get used to it said this man. you don't even look at what is happening. that's where we are now. still, i want to live a normal life. after five months of fighting, there's little left to destroy, except lives. diplomacy reached another impasse this week. russia announcing it will ban oil sales on any country that limits what it can charge. on ukraine's home front, energy

is in short supply. ukrainian civilians huddled through a cold, dark christmas. we're now in the 11th month of this war. i want to give you a sense what kind of toll it's taken. united nations recorded about 40% of the population, about 18 million people, need humanitarian assistance. only 7% say they want to leave. jonathan? >> matt bradley the kyiv. thanks and stay safe. we have news now from rome. >> the vatican is asking for prayers for pope benedict saying his health has worsened in the last few hours. the vatican said pope francis went to visit him who lives on the grounds of vatican.

in 2013 benedict became the first hope to retire in 600 years. novak djokovic has arrived in australia, almost a year after he was deported after refusing to comply with the country's vaccine mandate. the 21-time major winner has been granted a visa by the australian government and is listed to play in the open which starts monday. the australian open begins january 16th in melbourne. the megamillions jackpot is now $640 million after another drawing last night without a winner, which means no one this morning is headed for early retirement. our next guest sets out to answer the question when is it time to retire? we'll tell you the answer coming up next.

it's been an absolute honor and pleasure. while j.j. watt maybe able to retireab comfortably, thousandsf americans reach retirement age and start to ask serious questions like can i afford to retire, do i even want to retire. those questions and more are tackled by author steve lopez in the new book "independent day."

steve joins us now. and steve, first question we pose to youst by a man we hope never retires. >> ul tell you one thing, steve lopez has made more open field tackles throughout a career than j.j. watt has ever done.s one other thing. it's great to have you here. this is a wonderful book. it's a refreshing look at something that is inevitably going to occur to almost everyone. so my question to you despite spending so much time and energy reporting on the retirement dreams, hopes, the speck tort of retirement for so many ordinary people, you also spoke to norman lear at 100 years of age, both of them urged you to hang in there. what did you learn specifically

about yourself, your immediate future and your hopes and dreams perhaps of retirement from putting this book together. >> first of all, i'm not retiring from the nfl. i'm going to stick with it and make some more open-field tackles what i learned, i was seriously considering retirement. i'm just about 70. i fear becoming one of those people who maybe waits a little bit too long when you finally do cut the cord you're too hobbled or is have cognitive issue asks you can't begin to start scratching off those things on your bucket list. and i wanted to look at a book about a road map about what are you asking yourself about who you are and what you want to do. what i found in the year of thinkingth about my own situati and learning from others was that im love my job a little t much.

to leave just the yet. and norman and mel were among those who said, why not hang in there. maybe you can cut back a bit but continue to work. it's the best of both worlds. >> what was the biggest fear if you did find the biggest fear among the people you wrote object in this book? was it perhaps lack of socialization or lack of money? what was it? >> i think financial fears are huge. and the problem with that aspect of retirement is that none of us know what's around the corner. you don't know when you do retire and you take a look at your nestok egg if there's one all because millions of people don't have a nest egg and can't afford to retire. how long is it going to last? you don't know how long you're going to last. are you going to last 20 days or 20 years. so financial worries are a big part ofin this, but another big part is how do you reinvent

yourself. whatever your job, whether you're a nurse, a teacher, a cop, you show up. people expect youho to show up d do a job. it's a big part of who you are. and when you walk away from that, i thusay you need a plan. you need to find some way to matter, to find a new purpose. it could be as simple as you volunteer at a nonprofit that you love and it could be that you take carry of the grandparents. and give you some purpose in life. >> did you find amongst those people who retired at what might be an average age of 65, younger than you are, who are enjoying retirement, did you find a common denominator in perhaps their psychological attributes? did they have something in common that suited them well to

that transition from having an in-built sense of purpose or one they had to find for themselves? >> those are people that knew who they wanted. some make the mistake that i'm done. there's a woman who retires on a friday. she's a clerk in the law department of a toy company. can't wait to retire and they give her the big sendoff. and on friday she's out of there. on monday she wakes up and asks herself, what do i do now. and by the next trid she called and asked for her job back. there's another woman in the book who lives in a retirement village where the residents became my pen pals giving me great insights for this book. when i reached her, i heard marine chatter in the background and asked what was up. she said i'm on my boat sailing off the coast of california on the way to mexico.e as and just bumped into some

fibbermen. they tossed us fresh catch we're going to put that fish on the grill spp she said get out now. get out while you can while you're young enough to enjoy it. the people who know what they want to do and have the money to do it end up in much better shape. >> the new book is independence day, what i learned about retirement from some who have done it and some who never will. congrats on the book. thank you for joinings us. we have a little time left for final thoughts. mark, you'll never full lu retire. >> that's exactly right. especially with the winter we have had in boston with the red sox. that's my job. i'm on it right now. >> i'm never going to retire so long as they call me to get up in the morning. i'm hoping he does because he needs a break. >> let's end on that note. alex, tireless, we appreciate

it. our thanks to him and our thanks to allo of you for watching. that's going to do it for us this morning. peter alexander picks up the coverage after a short break. peter alexander picks up the coverage after a short break

good morning. it's 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm peter alexander. right now, a controversial pandemic era policy used to expel asylum seek letters remain in place for the time being as the hum