tonight on "the reid out". >> is this debate or is it just false? >> no, it's not false at all. it's debatable. >> as prosecutors open an investigation into the lies of republican congressman-elect george santos kevin mccarthy is facing a caucus in chaos just six days before the house votes on a new speaker. meanwhile serious questions are being raised about where santos got the money to run his campaign. also tonight the death toll is rising after a winter storm dumped more than 3 feet of snow on buffalo. we'll check in to see how the city is digging out and getting back up and running. good evening, everyone. i'm jonathan capehart in for joy

reid. republican leader kevin mccarthy faces a vote for speaker of the house next tuesday with a razor thin republican majority and the very real prospect of an open fight over the gavel. it's a predicament underscored by the saga of incoming republican congressman george santos of new york who again tried to explain away lies about his biography in an interview with fox news. >> do you have no shame in the people who now you're asking to trust you to be their voice for them, their families, and their kids in washington? >> tulsi, i can say the same thing about the democrats and the party. >> the better question is does kevin mccarthy have any shame or will he just continue to ignore the admitted fraud about to join his ranks in his desperate pursuit of the speakers gavel? he's admitted to numerous false claims likely because santos has

said republicans must support his bid to become speaker. highlighting the fact extremists now control this republican caucus in chaos, marjorie taylor greene he's emerged as one of kevin mccarthy's most vocal backers, she defended santos. she said republicans should give him the chance to legislate. the same marjorie taylor greene who was kicked off committees for promoting conspiracy theories and according to january 6th transcripts released tuesday former white house aide cassidy hutchinson recalled greene bragging to her and mark meadows chief of staffers -- hutchinson said greene gave donald trump a similar spiel showing a constituent wearing a "q" shirt and telling the former president those are all my people. but with republicans fighting among themselves at every turn

kevin mccarthy's quest for power has opened a rift even among the extremists. matt gates one of five house republicans who have vowed to vaet against mccarthy told the daily caller why. >> i'm not voting for kevin mccarthy for speaker because i think he's just a show of the establishment. and the reason most of my republican colleagues are supporting him is because they benefit from the redistribution of lobbyists and special interest money through mccarthy to their campaign accounts. >> joining me now matthew dowd, founder of country over party and chief strategist with the bush cheney campaign. eugene scott, national reporter at "the washington post," and dana millbank columnist for "the washington post" and author of the deconstructionists. the 25-year crack up of the republican party. thank you all very much for

coming up to the reid out. explain why mccarthy has been oh, so silent on santos. well, primarily because santos has been vocal about his support for mccarthy and mccarthy is not in a position where he can afford to lose any votes. he's not at a place right now where he has enough support from his own party to secure his speakership. >> i just want to point out nbc news has reached out to the national republican congressional committee, leader kevin mccarthy, whip steve scalise, conference chair for their reactions to santo admitting embellishments -- i call them lies -- and we've not receive any responses, so just want to put that out there. matthew, what does it say about the republican party that this is where it is right now? that there's a person who's

running for speaker who is so desperate to become speaker that you've got a qanon supported extremist who is saying everyone must vote for him, and meanwhile he's staying silent on a guy who's been revealed to have lied repeatedly about his own background, staying silent on all of this all in the hopes of securing the magical 218. >> well, i think what we've seen and as everybody i know on this panel has watched is they don't hold anyone accountable, the republican party establishment and the republican party leadership. and they watched donald trump according to "the washington post" lie some 30,000 time, never held them accountable in the course of that. in the end it's all about power in this. i think kevin mccarthy recognizes that lauren bobert and marjorie taylor greene are probably much closer to the center of where the republican voters in this country are than

any sort of mainstream republicans that are left in leadership or left as elected officials. just keep in mind, jonathan, if you look at almost every single state-wide key contest and key races whether it's pennsylvania, michigan, arizona, nevada, georgia, nearly every one of those for republicans -- the republican voters nominated election denying conspiracy theory anti-democratic candidates not in five, not in six, in nearly every single race. and so this is a problem obviously that's coming to fruition in this leadership battle, but it's really a problem because as i say the center of the republican party, this is where the center of the republican party is and the voters are. and that's why people like mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy who want to have a linkage with the establishment or some part of the mainstream are really out of

sync with where the republican primary voters are. >> and dana, i know i mess up the name of your book. it's called the destructionists, and you're writing about newt ging rich and his republican revolution at the time. but these folks who are ruling the roost in this current republican majority are quite some characters. there are six people who are opposed to kevin mccarthy right now being speaker, and kevin mccarthy can only lose i think four of them if he wants to become speaker, but what's interesting here is of those six two of them requested pardons after january 6th, andy biggs and matt gaetz and also in there is marjorie taylor greene and she's voting for kevin mccarthy. also marjorie taylor greene was caught on tape saying if she had planned january 6th she would

have been successful and her people would have been armed. i'm just -- you've written about kevin mccarthy and what's happened with his quest for -- for the speakership, so put all of this into historical context. how far has the republican party slid from the destructionist newt ging rich to these jokers? >> right, it's just been iteration after iteration to this so 1994 the tea party wave, the trump wave and so on. i don't often get to say this, so let me say i agree with matt gaetz. he called kevin mccarthy cave in mccarthy, that he'll cave in to anything, and that is exactly the issue. he stands for nothing but ambition. so this is, you know, old-fashioned coalition politics. it used to be, you know, you'd

get some southerners mixed with midwesterners and put things together. now you've got the insurrectionists, you've got the white nationalists. you've got the qanon folks, you've got the anti-semites, and you've got whatever george santos is. that's your coalition, and you have to keep them together. it's showing itself because the first vote is going to be on the speaker of the house, but if and when kevin mccarthy is elected, he's going to have no ability to get the second vote through or the third vote through because it's this same coalition of craziness that he has to put together, and that has been building -- the extremism was built upon election after election when the most extreme candidate won, and this was sort of the inevitable result of that. >> and matthew, speaking of we're looking at on tuesday the prospect of the first time since the 1800s if memory serves that

a speaker will have to -- will have gone through ballot after ballot after ballot in order to get the speaker's gavel. and i'm wondering already kevin mccarthy seems weak. how weak and how damaging is that not just to the republican conference but to the country if a speaker mccarthy comes in, he gets the gavel, but it took him five, six, 30 ballots in order to get the gavel? >> well, i mean i'm going to -- something that dana just said that i'll just carry on because i think it goes to this conversation, which is for a guy that's completely craven and, you know, all he wants is to sit in the speaker's office, that's really fundamentally what he's always want asked wants. he's never put together a sort of a effort or vision of how he wants to govern and what he wants to do on behalf of the

country. that has not interested him. so i think he's like a circus leader that just wants to bring in, you know, the bearded lady or whatever and have a series of barnum and bailee performance things as long as every morning he can get up and take the black car into the capitol, go to the speaker's office, take the black car back and leave home. they're not going to get anything done. it's going to continue round as i say circus acts in the middle of this. so how long he's able to maintain his ability to sit in that chair i think is a question mark because all he needs to do along the way as was stated is lose four or five votes and they basically say you're done in the midst of this. but i think speaker mccarthy doesn't have some agenda that he's worried about pushing through. he just wants to sit in the chair. >> yeah, i mean that is plainly apparent. there are a lot of characters

involved, and i want to focus in on matt gaetz because we now know from former white house aides he testified matt gaetz asked for a pardon over sex trafficking -- the sex trafficking investigation as you see there. question, how do you know congressman gaetz asked for a pardon. mcenty, he told me. they didn't do anything wrong but they're going to try and make his life hell and, you know, if the president could give him a pardon, that would be great. i don't know, in order to get a pardon don't you -- you have to say that you're guilty. you have to say you're guilty. talk about matt gaetz and why he figures so prominently in all this chaos? >> well, as was just mentioned while mccarthy may not have a clear agenda, matt gaetz does, and he's very consistent with where the base of the gop is. he's not speaking for himself regardless of how ambitious he may seem, but he has ideas about

where the country should go, and he has very little confidence in kevin mccarthy's ability to lead it. and so that's why he's been vocal in his support about, you know, for people like jim jordan and other people popular with, you know, some of the more extreme figures in the gop, the same individuals that elevated him not only to congress but were very much involved in the effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election. >> dana, we've got a minute left, but i want to end on you with this text from ralph to mark meadows. we've talked about it before, but i just think this is -- let's just put this up. this is ralph norman, congressman. mark, to see what's happening so quickly and read about the lawsuits attempting to stop any meaningful investigation we're at a point of no return in saving our republic. our last hope is invoking invok

martial law. >> when we're building this coalition we have to adin the coalition of the nonspellers, but it shows you that the people willing to overthrough democracy have thought it out so thoroughly they couldn't actually run the spell check on the process before actually testing it to the chief of staff in the white house. thankfully we have the electoral count act, so maybe it'll limit some of last time's craziness but we can only imagine what they'll come up with next and how they'll spell it. >> right, and we didn't get a chance to talk about mark meadows himself. time flies when you're having fun and talking about the chaos in the republican caucus in and the house. thank you all very much for coming to the reid out. and up next on the reid out perhaps the biggest question still unanswered by george

santos how did he suddenly become extremely rich? his opponent in the most recent election joins me next. election joins me next

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talented mr. santos continues to unravel. the nassau county district attorney has launched an investigation into congressman elect santos. in a statement a republican writes, quote, numerous

fabrications and inconsistencies associated with congressman-elect santos are nothing short of stunning. no one is above the law, and if a crime was committed in this county, we will prosecute it. this comes after tish james, the new york state attorney general already said she was looking into santos. what is undoubtedly of interest to both is how santos went from having no assets and a salary of $50,000 of being worth anywhere from 2.6 million to $11 million in the span of two years. i'm sure they would also like to know how he was able to loan his campaign more than $700,000. in his latest interview with the website santos tried to explain what he did but failed to explain where the money came from. he claims the money he made was from a company he founded in 2021 which specialalized in deal building and specialty consulting for high net worth

individuals. during the campaign santos accused his opponent of being dishonest. well, last night on fox the shoe was on the other foot. >> everyone wants to push me and call me a liar. >> congressman-elect santos, we've given you a lot of time. i think the time that is owe stood the people of new york's third. it's hard to imagine how they could possibly trust your explanations when you're not even willing to admit the depth of your deception. >> you're getting schooled by tulsi gabbard. joining me now is democratic congressman richie torres of new york and robert zimmerman, the congressman who ran against santos in this year's election. let me start with you, congressman torres, you put out a tweet demanding an investigation and i want to read

it. george santos lent his campaign a staggering $700,000. where did all that money come from? the ethics committee must start investigating immediately. i mean, you're the congressman from the bronx. he's the congressman-elect from long island. why is this of such concern to you? >> well, it's of concern to me because george santos is a pathological liar who's defrauded the voters of new york state. i mean he has lied systematically about nearly every aspect of his life, his family heritage, his educational background, his employment history, his ties to historical events. his depth and breadth of deception is staggering. it's unprecedented. but even worse than his lying is his possible law breaking. he should be the target of

multiple investigations. the house ethics committee should investigate him for his likely falsification of official federal documents. we have to send a clear message that if you defraud the voters you're going to be held accountable. you're going to be even prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. >> and robert, you were the democratic nominee running against george santos. and during the campaign you were trying to get anyone and everyone to listen to the red flags that you were seeing, the evidence that you had. why do you think no one paid attention? why are you not surprised that george santos is in the hot water he's in? >> well, first i have to thank congressman torres for his leadership on this issue. he and his colleagues have in fact bringing this to the forefront and we're all grateful democrats and republicans alike for his leadership. when you look at this issue, look at this story it speaks to

the importance of our local media and the need to invest in our local media. whether on the north shore of nassau county or reporters with news day, they did look into these issues and do their best to investigate and explore these issues. unfortunately, this race was not considered a high profile race and a very contentious national election year, very contentious for governor. try as we might we could never get a number of these issues on the radar, and that was very fortunate. it does give an important lesson about why we have to support and invest in our local media. that really is the answer to protecting our democracy. >> and robert, though, what recourse do you have as a citizen of the district but also as the democratic nominee? is there anything that can be done that would prevent george santos from taking the oath in six days?

>> we're having a rally tomorrow in nassau county at the courthouse bringing together democrats and republicans to make that demand. and we're going to have to keep the public pressure on. i know it's very difficult to block him from being seated but making sure there is a house ethics investigation, the spotlight as you point out on where he got his money from to loan his campaign, $700,000, how his income grew between 3.6 and $11 million in two years. we all know the deal here. we all know george santos has been bought. the question is who bought him. i think it's worth noting as the daily beast reported he received over $50,000 in funds from russian oligarchs, relatives of russian oligarchs. they didn't find him on tinder, they didn't pick him out of america's got talent. there's some way the connection was made and i think it's looking at his business transactions to see his other relationships as well who did

buy him? >> congressman torres, though, these are all great points being made. he should be investigated by the house ethics committee. he should be looked into, but with the incoming republican majority, is there any political will to do all the things we're talking about here? will anything happen to george santos as a result of the lies he's told? >> i have no confidence that the republican house majority is going to hold him accountable, but george santos is likely to be the target of multiple investigations. the republican district attorney from nassau county who opened a criminal investigation into george santos so that a republican d.a. would investigate george santos is a sign of more investigates to come. and the most important question is where did all the money come from? you know as late as may of 2020 he reported a salary of $55,000.

then in 2021 and 2022 he reported earning somewhere between 3.5 and $11.5 million. that is an astronomical growth in his personal wealth that he's not sufficiently explained. he claims the money comes from the organization which has been shrouded in secrecy. there's no public website, no linkedin page. it's been dissolved previously and where there's smoke there's fire. and there needs to be both a civil and criminal investigation. >> i'm going to end with you. let's say george santos for one reason or another isn't seated or a new election is held, would you run again? >> well, i've already issued -- i already issued a declaration of george santos assuming his name is george santos he should in fact because of his lies and admissions of criminality he should resign from his seat and i would face him head off there and the republicans can decide

who's speaking the truth and can best represent the district. so that's one offer i've made. and frankly, i don't envision that happening. i don't want to make this about me. i quite frankly, jonathan, want to keep the focus on george santos, keep the focus on the urgency of the investigation because that has to come first. when we have a vacancy, believe me, jonathan, i'll be on the phone with you discussing it. >> all right, i like a prebooking. robert zimmer pln, congressman, thank you for both coming to the reid out. and up next a winter storm is creating a lot of heart break in buffalo, new york, but we're also seeing a lot of uplifting acts of generosity and heroism. m research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. so to help you remember

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when a truck hit my car, ♪the insurance companyed, wasn't fair. eight million ♪ i didid't t kn whahatmy c caswa, so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to k how much their accident case is worth.h barnes. t ouour juryry aorneneys hehelpou the death toll after the devastating winter storm has risen to at least 37 reported deaths in western new york. that's according to erie county officials who said 29 of the 37 deceased were found in the city of buffalo. buffalo was hit with blinding blizzards and freezing rains that at one point left more than 20,000 customers without power. among reports of the suffering

of forklift clearing vehicles to let snowplows get through, arctic temperatures leaving a nearby restaurant encased in ice are also stories of hope and survival such as a stranger rescuing a disabled man with visible signs of severe frostbite from a snowbank and using a blow dryer to peel off his clothing and cut off his socks. good samaritans also include miles carter and david lewis who helped to reunite an elderly woman with her daughter. >> they rescued my mother from the jbl apartments. she's here. my mother is disabled and been without lights, gas, food, water. they have her at the house, my house trying to get her in. thank you to rasheed mcduffy because i've been trying for days to get to my mom. i've been trying.

you see these young men? this is amazing. this is god's work. >> joining me now is buffalo's city council president. president, thank you very much for coming to "the reid out." can you give us an update how the city is digging out from this storm? >> well, you know, this has been a tough storm, and it is a blizzard like we haven't seen. i was here in the blizzard of '77. this rivals that one, i think. at the end of the day i've been outside all day, just came in really to do this interview, and all of our main streets now have had at least one -- all of our streets have had at least one pass of a snowplow, but that may seem like that's okay, but there are still thousands of people who cannot get their cars out, still people who today our church was delivering groceries

in our immediate neighborhood, still people who cannot get to the grocery stores, and in a side of town like the east side of buffalo where we really only have one grocery store the tops, which we had the massacre some months ago, it's very difficult because there's also a driving ban still in effect. so when you take all of that, there's a lot of tempers flaring right now, but at the end of the day i've seen buffalo before in tragedy. and i see them again now rising to the cause. >> i know that one of the concerns now facing buffalo is something called rapid melt. why is rapid melt such a concern right now? >> because, you know, we've got all of the snow all over the place. that snow has to go somewhere. and although we have all levels of government coming in right now including our city who are

cleaning up, you have to put that snow somewhere. and the snow you can't put anywhere is still going to be on streets and residential streets. and it has to go somewhere. and systems can only handle so much, which means there will probably be back ups in basements. there will probably be flooding in some some streets. we are told it won't be massive, but there will be. so that means people who have been without heat, people who have been without -- some without water, some without -- many without electricity, that now they're going to have to deal with this. i'll give an example. at our church we had all of the pipe -- not all of the pipes -- many of the pipes burst. so now you've got that you've got to deal with, and in buffalo many of the commercial buildings have flat roofs, so you've got feet of snow. some buildings 5 feet of snow. that snow has the potential to flood out businesses. so it's a huge concern and just

another part of this massive blizzard like none other. >> yeah, and i'm glad you said that in the less than a minute we have left. this is blizzard like none other buffalo has seen, and buffalo has seen some blizzards. this isn't new, but what this blizzard shows is it's part of an extreme weather -- weather events that we have seen around the country. how can buffalo -- can buffalo prepare for the extreme weather events that seem to be happening with even more frequency? >> well, i just want to say since '77 we haven't had a blizzard of this magnitude. can we prepare? and if global warming and the change in environment is the reality, we must prepare for a different type of weather event. this is not something normal for buffalo. in my lifetime only one time -- i'm 58 years old.

one time we've seen it like this, so now if this is about to be our reality, yes we can prepare, and yes we will prepare. we are not going to make excuses. we're just going to do better. >> buffalo city council president darius prigen, thank you very much. and still ahead joy reid recently spoke with the creator of an amazing new podcast featuring hours of never before heard reportings of nelson man della discussing everything from politics to prison. that's next. politics to prison that's next.

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this month marks nine years since the passing of nelson mandela, the south african freedom fighter and president and truly one of history's greatest citizens. in a time when we are facing growing threats from domestic extremists motivated by racial ideologies mandela's voice is sorely missed. fortunately for us all there's a chance to hear from the man himself in never before released audiotapes from rick stengel who in 1993 worked with mandela in the writing of the critically acclaimed memoir and best-seller "the long walk to freedom."

he features long hours of rare recordings of himself and the beloved nobel prize winner. >> you have to recognize that people are produced by the mud in the society in which you live, and that therefore they are human beings. they have got good points, they have got weak points. your duty is to work with human beings as human beings not because you think they are angels. and therefore once you know this man has got this virtue and he's got this weakness, you work with them and you accommodate that weakness and you help him to overcome that weakness. joining me now is rick stengel. i think people don't understand you don't go back and actually listen to the tapes, you write from your transcripts. so going back and actually having a chance to listen to him, was there anything that you -- that you relearned about

this man who you came to know so well? >> hi, joy. it's great to be with you. by the way, that last passage that you heard him talking about he was answering my question about u-b-u-n-t-u, which is this african idea, a phrase he talks about that we're human beings through other human beings. it's a very -- a thing very important to him that he lived, you know, in every way. so, yes, going back and listening to it was -- was both a wonderful and sometimes painful experience. i mean, i sometimes heard my voice get high with nervousness because i was asking him a hard question. but, you know, the thing about him is i felt i heard some things i hadn't heard before. i felt he was a little lonelier, more isolated. i'm much closer to his age now

than i was then. but i also heard the kind of talk about his youth and how much his upbringing influenced him. he was raised in a royal family. he was raised by the king of -- he always identified with the traditional roots and called himself a country boy. i heard that more this time than i did originally. >> it's interesting a few years ago when my husband and i got went to south africa and you got to go and see where he was incarcerated you get the gravity of what happened to him. these were the indigenous people of south africa who had their country stolen from them and then made peace with the thieves and decided to live together with them. mandela told you he came out of incarceration with the same views he had before. he was a militant man for his people. i want to play a couple of sound bites. here's one on wanting to be a symbol for african history and

what he did to make that happen. take a listen. >> mandela walked into court that first morning wearing a kaross, a traditional one shouldered cloak worn by african kings, a beaded necklace and shoulder bracelets. suits and ties were the white man's uniform. mandela wanted to be the proud symbol of african history. >> it was to assert myself to go to a white man's court as an african wearing my own outfit, not the one that is desired by the court, yes. it was an assertion of nationalism, of african nationalism. >> and, you know, it's interesting because i think people try to associate him with almost being sort of -- like what they do to dr. king. what do you think the magic was that made him able to lead a

country with that hard of a history? >> so one of the things, joy, that we wanted to do in the podcast was get away from this kind of this classification of nelson mandela. he was the greatest democratic revolutionary in the 20th century. he was the one in the early -- in the late 1950s and early 1960s who decided that the nonviolent organization they needed to break with that nonviolent past. he said for men like gandhi or martin luther king nonviolence was a principle, for me it was just a tactic. and when that tactic wasn't working i had to abandon it. he started the he was a revolutionary. as you said a few minutes ago, people forget, you know, blacks in south africa were an

oppressed majority, not an oppressed minority. they were 85% of the population that were ruled by this diabolical white supremacist philosophy called apartheid which is maybe the most comprehensive form of racial oppression, you know, known in world history. amazingly enough, after world war ii in 1948, that's when the nationalist party came to power. >> it's amazing that this country has been able to go forward, but one of the things they did that a lot of countries refused to do is that they try to at least do truth and reconciliation, they tried to confront the past. germany has done, it they try to do it. you know, which are countries do, it it is a great lesson for the united states. the podcast is called mandela, the lost tapes, it is fascinating stuff guys, you definitely want to check it out. rick, thank you so much. really appreciate you sharing that with us. >> up next, an inspiring look back at what turned out to be an incredible year of space exploration and discovery.

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exploration, 2022 has been a year of extraordinary and historic accomplishments. from nasa launching artemis 1 and putting the u.s. on track to return to the moon, to the james webb telescope bringing a spectacular new image of the most distant galaxies ever

observed. do the dart mission crashing a spacecraft into an asteroid on purpose for the first time ever. this year has been one for the science books. and we take a look back at some of these highlights. >> three, two, one, boosters and ignition! and lift off of artemis one! >> in a year of triumphs for space exploration, nasa's artemis moon mission was a headline grabbing finale. a 25-day 1.4 million-mile test flight of a new orion spaceship that will one day carry astronauts back to the moon. an 80 mile high resolution flyover of the moon along orbit deeper into space. >> orion is right on the money, coming right down the pipe. >> then, a spectacular reentry, with the heat shield hitting 5000 degrees. that is half the temperature of the sun. >> and there it is. high over the pacific. >> before a gentle parachute

drop into the pacific ocean. >> splash down. >> it is the beginning of the new beginning. and that is to explore the heavens. >> that new beginning will include astronauts on a similar test flight around the moon in 2024. then, a lunar landing in 2025 or 2026, with a crew that includes a woman and a person of color. the first return to the moon since those heady days of apollo. >> [inaudible] the eagle has landed. >> but nasa is also leaning heavily on private companies. spacex now regularly launches both crew and cargo to the iss. this is the view of earth from the international space station. and a simulator at nasa in houston. outside the -- the blue richness of earth and

the blackness, the deep blackness of space. and right there, the canada arm which has reached out to grab an incoming cargo vessel. >> and spacex is now working overtime on its starship that will carry astronauts to the moon. then, perhaps, mers in the late 2030's. another huge success in 2022? nasa's d.a.r.t. mission. >> we have impact! >> the spacecraft -- traveling at 14,000 miles per hour, slamming into a small asteroid named dimorphos, 7 million miles from earth. and pushing it ever so slightly off its orbit. a critical success, if nasa hopes to one day deflect an incoming planet killing asteroid away from earth. >> now this is a watershed norment for planetary defense. and a watershed moment for humanity. >> but the most visual space

achievement in 2022 were those spectacular images from the deep space james webb telescope, using infrared cameras, we are now looking at a light billions of years old. the creation of the universe, distant stars and galaxies. stunning nebulous. begging the question, are we alone? >> you could have an answer whether or not there is life in the universe which would change everything, right? it would change our entire understanding of what we were and who we are in the universe. >> it is big and beckoning. to a new generation of explorers. tom costello, nbc news, houston. >> nbc's tom costello, thank you. and that is tonight's reidout. all in with chris hayes starts right now. right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. nearly two years after the