so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. good to be with you. i'm yamiche alcindor. we have a lot to get to this hour. the death toll from the historic blizzard in buffalo, new york, continues to climb, as search and rescue operations intensify. a state of emergency remains in

effect there, and although a driving ban has now been lifted, local officials are urging people to stay off the roads, unless they absolutely have to. >> i'm asking people to still be cautious, and if you don't need to drive, please don't. >> and the winter travel nightmare continues for thousands of americans still stranded in airports across the country. almost every airline in the nation has bounced back from the storm, except southwest airlines. at this hour, southwest has canceled almost 60% of its flights for today. now, giving a new update this afternoon, on when they plan to be running normally again. we're live from l.a.x. with the latest. and the january 6th committee just dropped another batch of interview and deposition transcripts, among them some of the biggest names from trump world, including don jr., kimberly gulfoyle and steven miller. what we're learning from them,

coming up. we begin with the chaos still unfolding in airports across the country. with thousands still stranded and more incumbent weather on the way. in what executives are describing as the biggest operational meltdown in the five-decade history, southwest airlines now says they're still recovering today. but plan to return to normal operations with minimal disruptions tomorrow. joining me now from l.a.x. is nbc news correspondent, and nbc news meteorologist michelle grossman. you're there in the thick of it at l.a.x. tell us what you're seeing and hearing from travelers. >> people are telling me here, they're frustrated, and mad and sad, because their holiday plans have already been ruined. they say thousands of flights have been canceled by southwest in the last several days, only operating a third of their scheduled flights. meanwhile stranded passengers just left in the middle, they say just left to fend for themselves. behind me, you can see a sea of

baggage, and that's because although southwest has flown out the baggage to the final destinations, in many cases, the people themselves have not made it. and a lot of people are learning a difficult lesson about not putting important things in the checked-in baggage, because they were not notified of the canceled flights or the delays until after they checked in their bags. we spoke to people who have gone days without clothes because they have them in there, and also medications, we've seen car seats left here, and even motorized chairs, things that people need, essential items, for them to get through their days. and in the meantime, while they've been unable to get to their luggage, they've been incurring unexpected expenses out-of-pocket to deal with this. in the extent of their travels, that they did not expect, we have seen some people who have told me, they spent thousands of dollars with hotels, or gas or food that again they say they

did not expect here, and they say during this time, they have been trying to reach out to southwest and haven't been able to reach them on the phone, so they have been left to do this on their own. southwest saying in a statement that they will do right by their customers and even saying that they will give refunds for those who have canceled flights and other expenses that they find reasonable. however, some people we have spoken to say that's just frankly not enough. listen to these parents we spoke to here today at l.a.x. >> the sad part is they were actually coming not just for the christmas holiday but our kid's grandpas had h-passed away the day before christmas, so they were trying to get home, so that we could grieve together as a family. and this whole thing has just caused nothing but chaos for our family. here we are today picking up their luggage while they're still back in san antonio and never made the trip. >> reporter: so that's just an example of a priceless moment, that family says they will never

get back, and although southwest is in the process of trying to reunite people with their baggage, all those bags there you saw with that family, they say they have the option of southwest sending that to their kids that are impacted, however they frankly just don't trust the airline to do that. they say it's more reliable for them to do it on their own, even though it will be incredibly expensive. and although southwest says again they will return to normal operations tomorrow, people here tell us they'll have to see it to believe it, because after days of going through this, a lot of them telling us they don't trust the airline. yamiche? >> this is such a troubling situation, you're reporting, it is so important, and thank you for bringing it to us, and michelle, there is more bad weather on the way, which is incredible and hard to believe. talk a bit about what you're watching. >> hi there. yes, we're looking at a series of storms moving through the west. that's the big weather headline,

also looking at the chance for strong to severe storms in the southern plains through the lower mississippi valley, where we're already starting to see the activity ramp up at this hour, we'll see it ramp up later on this afternoon, into the evening hours. let's look at satellite and radar. that's the big weather picture. down to the south, you can see some darker color, the brighter reflectivity, the yellows, the oranges, where we're seeing heavy rain falling through portions of arkansas and louisiana. we could see some strong storms, too, in texas and we can't rule out a tornado, we can't rule out winds of 60 miles per hour. heavy rainfall. that is the story, too. notice all of the blue stretching from the north west to the south west, into the intermountain west and the central plains. that is snow falling. that's what we're watching today a series of storms moving onshore to the west in the next several days through sunday. and a little pink there. that is ice mixing in and that makes for tricky travel. a big time warmup. once you get the warmup, this big this time of the year, you usually pay a price. and that's why we're seeing the

rain and that's why we're seeing the threat of the severe storms. notice the temperatures near 80 degrees in houston, and 75 in new orleans, and even into the 50s near 60 degrees in chicago, and a huge difference from this time last week, and that's 22 degrees above normal, and it's 11 degrees above normal for buffalo. helping the snow melt. it will be gradual. same story tomorrow, reds and pinks and oranges, indicating where that really is where the temperatures are 22 degrees above norm until syracuse. and it creates a record in the northeast tomorrow, we're going to watch that for you. and then we're watching that storm system down to the south. heavy rain falling with the threat of storms. we will be watching that, too. as we go throughout the afternoon. back to you. and an important update, niala, and michelle, thank you very much for joining us. officials in buffalo now are expecting a rapid melt of snow over the next few days. that could mean flooding and extreme ice for search and rescue teams as they ramp up the

search for those still missing. nbc's marissa para is on the ground with the latest. >> buffalo is in the process of thawing out. in terms of where what it looks like it, depends where you are. with the roads back open, the travel ban now reduced it a travel advisory, and we know the airport is back open. the railway system is back open. and in terms of what happens next, there is a lot of people still in the process of digging themselves out. we know that a lot of the main roads look very good. i want to show you something that really illustrates what lake effect snowstorms can do. take a look at this. this light pole. covered in ice. and if you pan over here. this is an example of what those negative 20 degree wind chill temperatures, coupled with 70 mile per hour wind gusts, this is a concession stand and you wouldn't be able to tell, because it is covered in ice. now ice that is melting in these warmer temperatures, but even so, you can see that this is just a complete sheet, where people would normally be coming up to get something to eat, and

even the ground that we're walking on, we have to walk on it very carefully, because this too is like a skating rink. another sheet of ice. we don't even know how deep it is. either way, very slippery. there are parts that are very slippery. as the snow is continuing to melt, and one of the concerns was about flooding. so just as a precaution, the new york governor, governor hochul announced state aid and resources toward fighting any potential flooding conditions. this including 800,000 sandbags, generators and pumps, ahead of what could be yet another road block for families still recovering from the winter storm. back to you. >> all right, thanks marissa for that report. coming up the january 6th committee just made a new round of transcripts public, including some of former president trump's closest advisers and his own son. the latest of the condition of pope emeritus benedict as the vatican asks the world for

prayers. russia unleashes a round of air strikes across ukraine. a live report from kyiv next. net

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ukraine today rocked by another round of russian air strikes, some of the heaviest of the war. russian forces fired nearly 70 missiles and drones across the country, according to ukrainian officials. many were intercepted, but enough got through to knock out power and water in major cities. already coping with the humanitarian crisis. nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley is on the ground in kyiv. also with us, u.s. former ambassador to ukraine, william taylor. thanks to both of you for being here. matt, how are people on the ground there fairing, given the fact that we are seeing now this assault again on ukraine? >> well, here's the thing, ukrainians are used to it, because of the fact of the matter is, these are relentless assaults for much of the past

several weeks. because this has been kind of russia's favorite civilian target, electricity infrastructure. and he's chosen this way back in the fall, and actually, for the past several week, we've had a bit of a reprieve here. i woke up this morning to the sound of bombardments here in kyiv and it was kind of remarkable when you considered the fact that 69 missiles were fired from, well, the black sea, also from as far away as the caspian sea, and 54 of them were intercepted some of the that's like a rate of about 75 to 80% interception. but the real danger for civilians here, even though not a single missile launched here in the capital kyiv actually made it to its target, the risk is falling debris. because even those intercepted missiles still pose a major risk for civilians. just today, i was at a park, a children's park, where some debris had fallen amidst the playground equipment. amidst the basketball court. so that was really threatening a lot of the parents who were there with their kids, they were

describing how dangerous that is, even this is a pre-dawn attack, and mo one was at injured, no one was at the park, and even though it is far from the electricity infrastructure, which is very much a civilian target, or any sort of military targ, can expect to be underneath weapons that are being intercepted by ukraine's own system. so even though officials here are, you know, crowing about how successful their anti-missile system has been, there were still three people who were injured, including a 14-year-old girl. >> and just heart-breaking reporting, matt. thank you so much for bringing us that information from on the ground in kyiv. and ambassador bill taylor, talk to me a bit about how you're squaring this split screen we're seeing, vladimir putin, the president of russia, is saying he is ready to negotiate, but of course, we're seeing these assaults on ukraine, so what do you make of the split screen? >> just as matt says, putin is

targeting civilians in ukraine. this is a war crime. this is atrocities. this is making people freeze. we see what's going on in buffalo and around our country, with just a couple of days, well the ukrainians are looking at this for months. they're looking at exactly the same thing. no power. no light. no electricity. no water in some cases. for days. this is what putin is doing. this is exactly what he's doing. and he says he wants to negotiate. what he wants to negotiate is having the ukrainians give up territory. putin wants the ukrainians to give up the territory that the russians now illegally occupy. ukrainians will never do that. matt's talked to people. i've talked to people. the ukrainians will not give up. they will continue to fight. they will continue to resist. >> and as you're saying, ambassador, that ukrainians are going to continue to fight, what's your sense of their ability to keep up this fight, to defend themselves?

they are of course shooting down missiles and drones but what's your sense of how long they can continue it this fight? >> they will continue as long as they have to. they will continue to fight. the real question is the one you raised and that is how long will we support them? we are supporting the ukrainians with weapons and ammunition, we are providing all kinds of support in terms of diplomatic efforts. as long as we're there, as long as we're providing that kind of support, the ukrainians will continue to fight, and i believe they will win. they will push the russians out of their country. that's what they've said. the ukrainians said they're willing to talk to putin once the russians are out of their country. that's a negotiation. so that's what they will do. and they will continue to push for that until the russians are gone. >> and what difference do you think, or what impact do you think the patriot missile system might have on that ability to fight? and while you say that you think there might have been war crimes here, i wonder as a second question, do you think people will pay consequence, will face justice because of this? >> they will face justice

because of this. if ukrainians win. if ukrainians win this war, which they are convinced they will, then there will be accountability. there has already been the beginnings of accountability. there's a lot of people, both ukrainians and internationals that are doing investigations of these war crimes. there's no doubt that these are war crimes, no doubt that they're atrocities. people have made the case and i believe them that it is genocide. and you asked about the patriots. the patriots, when they come, and it will take some time to train, but when they come they are extremely effective against cruise missiles and ballistic missiles and aircraft. they're too expensive to be used against these drones. though the ukrainians need layers. they need the ability to shoot down the drones and at the medium level and the long range, with the patriots, so the patriots are very sophist cated. it is a very good sign that the biden administration has agreed to send these heavy long-range weapons. but they need to do more.

>> strong words from ambassador bill taylor, thanks for joining me. >> thank you. still ahead what we're learning from the latest batch of interview transcripts from the january 6th committee. plus, what we know about the new investigation into incoming house republican george santos who has admitted to quote embellishing his res mace. we have details on the fallout and the possible consequences after a quick break. sequences after a quick break. what will you do? ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with the tools and expertise you need to do incredible things. because we believe there's an innovator in all of us. my a1c stayed here, it needed to be here. ray's a1c is down with rybelsus®.

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a serene river voyage on an elegant viking longship. learn more at viking.com breaking news. brazilian soccer legend pele has died at age of 82 after a year-long fight against cancer. just last week his loved ones rushed to his bedside in brazil as his condition appeared to worsen. sam brock has a look back at his life and legacy. >> called the beautiful game, the name bestowed on soccer by the greatest player pele, a man who made the impossible look effortless. >> born into poverty in sao paulo brazil in 1940, he dominated the schoolyard where he picked up the nickname pele. in 1950, he watched his father cry after brazil's world cup

loss to uruguay. >> don't worry, i'm going to win the world cup for you. >> pele made good on that promise. in 1958, at just 17, he burst on to the world stage, becoming the youngest player to score a goal in the fifa world cup match. brazil went on to claim the cup. the country's first ever. later two more with pele as their star making him the only player to win three world cup titles in the sport's history. the major european football clubs tried recruiting him, but pele, also nicknamed the king by commentators stayed loyal 19 years with his brazilian team santos. the most highly paid athlete recognized everywhere. few americans at the time new any professional soccer player, thrilled when he signed with the new york cosmos in 1975, before finally calling it quits. >> i feel very, very sorry

because i love soccer. and it's like a part of my life that i lost. >> off the field, pele grew into one of the most well-known celebrities on the planet. ♪ >> a pitch man. >> i carry american express. >> a frequent white house guest. his life story on the big screen. >> and a roll to history with sylvester stallone. >> these, these, these, these. go. >> the artist andy warhol, famously equipped, everyone will be world famous for 15 minutes, but after meeting and painting pele, he revised his statement. pele will have 15 centuries of fame. >> i love the people. the people love me. >> in his later years, he served as a u.n. ambassador and a champion of both the poor and the environment.

he always remained beloved as simply pele, the greatest soccer player ever. sam brock, nbc news. >> our hearts with the family of pele as they are mourning his loss. and our thanks of course to sam brock for that report. turning now to domestic politics, the steady stream of investigative materials continues from the january 6th select committee. today the panel released another batch of transcripts from depositions, including some big names, former president trump's top speech writer, spokesperson, press secretary, and even one of his own sons. the release comes as the committee took another big and maybe final step, formally withdrawing the subpoena against former president trump. saying the committee's disbanding, quote, they can no longer pursue the specific information covered by the subpoena. you will remember that the committee sent four criminal referrals related to the former president's behavior and pursuing a concept of congress charge for his not complying

with the subpoena. joining me now from capitol hill is ali rafa. tell me what you're learning from the transcripts and what's the big take-away here? >> this latest tranche of almost two dozen transcripts, they include testimony from people ha we saw make some big headlines during the january 6th committee's public hearings and some people who have been not so much in the spotlight who still played a large role in the commit's year-long investigation. to give you a gut check, nothing that the team has combed through so far has gone to the extent of cassidy hutchison's testimony but there are interesting nuggets in these testimonies. for example, a piece of former senior trump adviser stephen miller's testimony says that to this day, he still believes that former president trump won the 2020 election. another piece from the chief of the capitol police reveals that he wasn't too alarmed about an intelligence assessment that was

conducted before january 6th that warned that congress was the primary target on january 6th. he says that there are lots of other protests that happened in dc that target congress that didn't alarm him too much. dc mayor, muriel bowser also said that she tried to get a hold of the capitol police chief several times to no avail. so several key nuggets that came out of really the initial glean from our team through the transcripts. >> and allie, news that the committee is withdrawing its subpoena, trump's legal team is saying that this is a victory for the former president. what is your reporting about this? >> so remember trump's legal team actually filed a lawsuit against the committee, to count ther, where the committee initially subpoenaed trump back in october, and they tried to sue the committee back to try to stop that subpoena from being enforced. so this withdrawal of this subpoena is largely symbolic,

largely an administrative move by the committee, and in this letter by chairman bennie thompson, he is essentially saying that, look, our investigation, after this over a year-long investigation is wrapping up, we find we finished our public hearings. our final report, it's unrealistic that the subpoena can actually be concluded. so we're just going to clear the administrative slate and let this go. so rather than this being a sort of consequential or impactful move, a success for the trump legal team, this is really just an administrative move to really close this investigation before the committee dissolves entirely at the end of the month. >> a reminder that the clock is ticking. so thank you so much for your reporting. and just five days from being sworn in to office, congressman-elect george santos is now facing an investigation by the county he was elected to represent. the investigation was opened after multiple reports allege santos lied about his

credentials. everything from his education to his employers to his charitable foundation, san stoes has since admitted to quote embellishing his resume. the d.a. saying in a statement that the alleged fabrications are quote nothing short of stunning. let's bring in of course former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst glen kirschner. so talk to us about the objectives of this investigation by the d.a.'s office here appears and what they are hoping to accomplish. >> it's not necessarily the lies that george santos appears to have told on the campaign trail, saying he had college degrees, he didn't have work -- worked at places he never worked and that may get him in some political hot water. it really feels like it is more about the money. and i can tell you that is what will pique the interest of prosecutors whether local nassau county prosecutors or federal prosecutors, because when you see things reported, like george santos filled out some campaign

documents, saying, for example, he earned $55,000 a year in salary, and yet in 2021, we've seen reporting that he was able to loan his own campaign $700,000. now, i am no mathematician, but that tells me he would have to have saved every penny of his $55,000 salary for 13 years to be in a position to loan his own campaign 700,000 dollars. so i have to believe that prosecutors both local and federal will be looking at, for example, his tax returns, seeing if there are any income anomalies, let's call them, and that's probably where the prosecutors will focus, assuming they believe they have enough evidence to open a criminal investigation. >> >> glenn, as you're talking about the suspicions when it come the weather, put on your legal analyst hat here, when it comes to what you might say to

the republican party, republican leadership in the house so far has been quiet about this. if you're talking to lawmakers, are you saying that hey maybe this is someone you want to oust out of your party? out out of congress? what would you tell lawmakers thinking about this? >> you know, i think george santos has bought himself a world of trouble, not only potentially on the legal front but on the political front. you have to imagine he ill be with referred to the house ethics committee, and you know, you have to wonder how will his fellow republicans feel sort of working shoulder to shoulder with someone who has admitted that he lied. he calls it embellishments. and you know an embellishment that you worked somewhere ten months and you said you worked there a year and he said he worked places he never worked. i don't understand how someone can be politically viable, particularly as a freshman representative under those circumstances. >> a lot of questions we will definitely keep following this story, thanks for joining us.

and still ahead, growing uncertainty at the southern border after the supreme court kept a key immigration rule in place. we will tell you what is next in the legal battle first, live in rome with an update on the retired pope benedict's continue at this hour. as the vatican calls on the world to pray. i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 54, what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i'm 65 and take medications. what's my price? also $9.95 a month. i just turned 80, what's my price?

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at the vatican and around the world, prayers are pouring

in for retired pope benedict. pope francis is saying that the pope emeritus condition is getting worse. he is absolutely lucid and vigilant and today while his condition remains serious, it is stable at the moment. i want to bring in nbc's molly hunter in rome. molly, tell us a bit about how the pope emeritus is doing. >> we don't have that much information. the vatican has not been super forthright about exactly what his condition is. they have said in the past, we want to be very clear that his health has been deteriorating over the last few years, he has looked very frail for some time, we know that he really no longer speaks. he has been struggling to speak. but the vatican is really not giving us very much. so the fact that pope francis came out yesterday and he is very sick and please join me in praying is a huge deal.

and from the holy see press office today, we got the update he is very serious but stable. and we were at saint peter's square, talking to tourists and there is concern in addition to the prayers. take a listen to what some of the people told us. >> it is very sad. we pray for him. >> he's like a big staple in the catholic community. i think it is going to affect us. >> i am very concerned and very sad. and i hope he gets better. >> he's an important figure, and he still has the respect. >> my question to a lot of people was how much does this matter, how sad are they, how much are they paying attention, because this is a retired pope, of course, who shocked the world by retiring for the first pope, in 600 years, to retire, in 2013, he has largely been out of sight for the last 10 years and i was very curious about tourists here, about people who

identify as catholic, who practice, how important he was, and it is very clear to me even though he is kind of off the radar for the last decade or so, it was very important, very meaningful and people wanted to know what the funeral would look like and that is a big question that we have for the vatican, we have no idea exactly what the funeral plan would be, for when he actually passes. >> well, a lot of concern that molly is reporting there. cats -- kathleen, talk to us about what is happening in the vatican at this exact moment. >> rest assured there is a plan in place and although the vatican hasn't revealed it yet, it will in its own good time. it is rare that something in the catholic church is unprecedented but i think in this case, it comes pretty close. almost ten years ago, thanks to pope benedict's resignation, we witnessed a papal conclave without a papal funeral. soon, as we await the news of benedict's demise, we will see a

papal funeral that is not followed by a conclave. we already have a pope. the funeral of a retired pope is largely unprecedented so we don't know what to expect. the vatican has plans and it is likely that benedict himself was involved in stipulating what kind of funeral it would be. i think it is likely that pope benedict's funeral will be somewhat less elaborate than if he were still a sitting pope. but nevertheless, i expect that we'll have most of the rituals, most if not many of the rituals that befit a former head of state and a man whose pontiff for eight years and a major figure in the vatican community for almost 24 years before that. we are guided by the protocol that are in place for a sitting pope. and i expect a lot of those will be followed, some of them won't be because they no longer apply, such as the destroying of the papal ring, which is customary. that was relinquished when benedict resigned. >> and kathleen, we saw images

of pope francis with pope emeritus benedict. talk about their relationship. what are these two men, their relationship like, especially in the final moments? >> historically, pope francis is praying as he asked the world to do for pope benedict. pope francis has respect for pope benedict, he sees him as a predecessor and brother and occupies the position he now occupies and truly heart felt prayer and reflection. as a fervent believer, pope benedict sees his life as a pilgrimage and that pilgrimage is about to end. the tourists that molly spoke to, i think their sentiments are echoed around the world, this is a momentous time, a time of mourning and a time of reflection and i think pope francis is joining his prayers to the rest of the world, as he awaits this poignant passage and this momentous moment in church

history. >> certainly a unique moment but a tough moment. molly hunter, kathleen cummings, thank you very much turning now to the situation on the southern border where there is growing uncertainty following the supreme court's decision to keep title 42 in place for now. the controversial trump era policy makes it easier for the government to turn away people trying to enter the country. the supreme court will hear oral arguments in february, and will decide by june whether to lift the policy or keep it in place. joining me now, the deputy director of aclu's immigrants rights program and aclu's lead attorney on the title 42 challenge. talk a little bit about what this decision by the supreme court, what it means to temporarily keep this in place. >> yes, thanks for having me back. we're deeply disappointed with title 42, that it will remain in place. it will be real harm, as it has been for the past two and a half years. families without children, being

tortured, raped, persecuted, even killed, kidnapped, and so any delay is highly unfortunate. what the supreme court has said is they're only going to be looking at a technical procedural issue. that is where there are 19 gop-led states will be allowed into the case, ultimately they are leaving it for the lower court, the question of the legality of title 42. so whether or not we win in the supreme court, and whether or not the states are allowed in, ultimately the legality of title 42 will be ruled on by the lower courts, and we are hopeful, as are the courts have done so far, they will say that title 42 is irrational at this point given that we are past the covid crisis, and i think just as much to point out, that the you a 4 decision on tuesday that there is a difference between a covid crisis and questions about how to manage the border. and even in state who are trying to intervene, they no longer are

saying that there is any covid crisis. and in fact, they have opposed every covid restriction imagine nable except for the one that targets vulnerable asylum seekers. >> we're seeing images of people sleeping on the street with children. talk a bit more about the impact that this is going to have on families, on children, and what if anything can be done to help them. >> yes, so i think we need to rush resources to help people, there are obviously people sleeping on the streets, it is a humanitarian crisis, the conditions are horrendous, it is very cold in texas, but there is also the danger, and you know, at the end of the day, there is a limit to what we can do, because title 42 has not given them an asylum hearing. so i wanted to stress a few things about title 42 that i think people are not understanding, is one is it does not allow you to seek asylum here, no matter how much danger you're in, and even if you present yourself lawfully in the court, it is a misconception that you can get asylum here if

you present lawfully. the other thing is some people say not everyone is entitled to asylum. true enough, and we're not arguing that everyone is entitled to asylum, but we're saying that everyone is entitled to a hearing, and we are sending people back to just absolutely horrendous danger. what the court of appeals called stomach-churning evidence of danger. essentially making families walk right back over the border, directly into the hands of cartels, and our u.s. officials are watching families walk over a bridge, knowing that the cartels are on the other side. we expel them without a hearing at night, directly into the hands of cartels who are waiting on the other side. so this delay is going to have horrendous consequences but we will keep fighting. the last thing i want to stress is the administration can end all of this if they simply do notice and comment. the only reason they weren't able to voluntarily end it according to a federal court in louisiana, is they didn't go through the process of what is

called notice and comment, putting the regulation out there, for people to comment. that's been going on since may that they haven't done. it i think it tells you a lot about where the administration really is on title 42. they may be publicly saying in court, we think it should end because there is no longer a public health justification but they haven't taken the steps to end it in the way they. >> could and they are also, there are now rumors that they're going to expand it beyond just venezuela, to nicaraguaens, cubans and maybe haitians. that is really outrageous. >> a tough story to cover, but one that we will continue to report on. lee, thank you so much. of course, from the aclu, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me back. and next, what is in store for the economy, in 2023. and whether we can begin facing a recession. we've got an economic forecast after the break. e got an economt after the break. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain,

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♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ we're following some promising news on gas prices today, with experts saying we should expect to pay less at the pump overall next year. right now the national average for a regular gallon of gas is $3.16. that's up slightly from a week ago. but down from last month, and this time last year. nbc's kerry sanders has the latest on what we can expect next year at the pump. >> reporter: when it comes to the price of fuel, there's some good news and some bad news. first, the good news. this is all coming from gas buddy. it's estimated, with the price of gas down as we see right now, that next year, collectively as a nation, we will spend less to the tune of $50 billion less than we did in 2022.

that's the good news. the bad news is sometime around mid next year, it's predicted that a gallon of gas will climb back up to around $4 a gallon. some positive news at the pump this morning. estimates for 2023 predict gas prices will be cheaper overall next year. >> i think i'd be happy -- >> if the price is down? >> right. >> reporter: those savings are expected to be significant. on average gas should cost 50 cents less a gallon through may of 2023. the price of gas next year is expected to be down, not up. you say? >> it's a welcome thing. >> welcome for drivers across the country. after consistently high fuel prices dominated in 2022. a spike that set off recession alarm bells. worsened inflation. and crushed consumer confidence. >> it is horrific. it is absolutely horrific. what are you going to do? what are you going to do? >> reporter: between now and may of 2023, prices are expected to

remain low. but gas buddy expects to see slight increases again during the warmer months, due to summer travel. with prices potentially reaching the $4 per gallon mark. again in may, june, july, and august. >> gas prices are very seasonal. as the weather starts to warm up, starting in march, that's when we start to see americans getting outside more, demand for gasoline starts to accelerate. >> reporter: despite those summer time increases, americans should see more money leftover in their wallets after filling up their tanks. >> the average household is going to be spending about $277 less on gasoline in 2023 than in 2022. >> reporter: the constant strain on americans' budgets, hopefully easing in the new year. how much do gas prices dominate our lives? well google tells us among the top searches in 2022, gas prices near me. >> thanks to kerry sanders for that report.

and joining me now is justin wolford, a professor of economics and public policy at the university of michigan, justin thanks for being here. so we know that the price of gas is predicted to, expected to be lower next year, what does that say about the overall economy, especially with reports saying that inflation might be easing? >> one of the big things of 2022 was high gas prices and high energy prices more generally and for for that we thank vladimir putin and the good news is no longer gas prices are rising and falling somewhat. that is one of many ways in which pressures on the cost of living aren't going to be as great next year as they were this year. so look for inflation to fall, fall pretty sharply. and it looks like we are seeing the peak of inflation. and the real question is how quickly will it fall, not whether it will fall. and that is really welcome news for a lot of families. >> and justin, when you talk about the welcome news, i have to also point out that bloomberg

released a survey of economists who say there's a 70% chance that a recession will happen next year. that's up from 65% in november. do you think that that is accurate? is that what we should be predicting? or do you think that maybe this isn't going to be a reality? >> i think it is excessively pessimistic. so if a big group of wise economists says you should be a little bit worried about a recession, you should be at least a little bit worried. but should we be very worried? in the history of recessions, we've never done a very good job of predicting them in advance, so we're at this unusual historical moment where a large number of other economists, not me, seem quite certain there is bad news on the horizon. just as we get a lot of things wrong, i think we might get the bad news wrong here, which would be unusually good news. the general claim is that people think that the fed is going to make a mistake, and plung the economy into a recession. the fed might make the opposite mistake and not raising interest

rates too far and it might cause the economy to keep motoring around. and just as things could be worse, they could be better than you think. >> and it is better than we think. i want to know what is your biggest prediction after all we just talked about, what is your biggest prediction economic-wise, next year? >> well, think it is actually kind of pretty good news. unemployment in recent months has been pretty close to a low, and the one cloud on the horizon is very high inflation and that is going to disappear as well. so do i predict that people will be talking about the economic good news? i don't. because economists always seem to find a way to find the bad news ahead. but right now, unemployment is low and people are finding ways to find a job and inflation is falling and i'm hopeful that wages might start to make up from some of the lost ground of the last couple of years so i'm a sunny optimist. >> justin wolfers, thank you so much. >> my pleasure. and much more coming up next hour, including how the white

house is responding for the first time to incoming gop committee heads seeking documents and testimony from the administration. plus, we're just hours from a key house committee releasing former president trump's tax returns. we've got a preview of what to expect, don't go anywhere. where. what will you do? ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with the tools and expertise you need to do incredible things. because we believe there's an innovator in all of us.

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