for two weeks after the holiday break. i don't think that's unreasonable. i think that actually makes a lot of sense. >> certainly a short-term measure to protect themselves but others, that's the point. masking has become so political. people have lost that part of it. dr. uche blackstock, we appreciate you coming in this morning with the updates you provide. thanks to all of you also for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. there's a lot going on. "morning joe" starts right now. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, january 2nd. happy new year, everyone. with us to kick off the new year, we have author and nbc news presidential historian, michael beschloss, columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. retired four star navy admiral, james stavridis, chief

international analyst for msnbc news, and the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, happy new year to you all. happy new year to you. >> happy new year. we have so much to talk about. new year yesterday morning, mika and i went to a new year's day service, and the priest gave a homily on the need to be architects of peace in our daily lives and political discourse, and foreign policy and everything. the harsh path we have taken in our not so new century is elevated, revenge over reconciliation. and reminded us for all of us in attendance, and i love this. >> it's a good one. >> he said start by digging two graves. one of them for yourselves. >> yeah. >> wow, that really does strike you when you look what's happening in washington over the past 20 years because i really do believe, mika, we live in two

americas. one that has seen childhood poverty has dropped to 60 year lows, and teenage pregnancy drop to 70-year lows. it's in the u.s. world dollar and anytime over the last generation. it's in our u.s. military than any military in the history of human kind. a lot is going on in america that is right. yet we deal with the political system that continues. it just seems to get more bitter and more corrosive and more unworthy of the great nation that its leaders represent. so i'm just hoping in the new year that leaders in washington, d.c., they can follow your dad's quote, which you have in the top of your twitter board. >> oh, yeah, of course. bipartisanship helps to avoid extremes and imbalances. it causes compromises and accommodations, so let's cooperate. and there's no moral equivalency

there. we have been very clear about what we believe has happened over the past six years. and where most of the blame has rested. let us hope we can move forward in the coming year and maybe our leaders will start doing what americans do want them to do. they want them to work together, and like your dad said, cooperate with each other. >> in the final moments of the last year, democracy prevailed. it survived. >> yes. >> and, you know, there was a question. there's a lot to be hopeful for as well! there really is. and michael beschloss, let me bring you in there. we have a year end wrap up, where we talked about democracy. but you see what happened on new year's eve and new year's day in ukraine. people sharing. and kyiv, for those fighting for their freedom. just remarkable. and my gosh, every american

could and should be able to celebrate that loves this country, that loves the u.s. institution. that loves american democracy. that all the election deniers, all the people that wanted to say we won't recognize election outcomes unless our side wins, they all lost. 2022, i mean, you have to fight for democracy and freedom every day. in whatever way you can. but 2022, gave us a couple more years where at least the basics of madisonian democracy remain in tact. >> absolutely. totally. and happy new year, mika and joe and everyone else. let's celebrate today. we have had ample reason over the last seven years to say these are dangerous for democracy. but this morning i think we can say that the election of 2022 proved, as i always love to say,

and never said louder than last year, no one should ever bet against american democracy. if this election had gone the other way, and i'm not talking about more favorably for republicans, but let's say in the five or six key states, election deniers had been elected as governor, secretary of state, state legislatures, what we would be talking about this morning is the fact that there's a big shadow over the election of 2024, and will our democracy survive. so my point and, you know, again, i'm sorry to keep on nodding, but i subscribe to everything you both are saying this morning, and that is this is a moment, a, to celebrate what's happened, b, to meditate on the strength of democracy not only in the united states but ukraine where people are willing to give up their lives, rather than succumb to authoritarian

dictatorship. you talk about the need of working together, the danger of hatred and the sermon you heard on sunday. it reminded me, you remember what richard nixon said in his last speech in the white house, august 9th, 1974, others who hate you, but those who don't hate you win unless you hate them, and then they destroy themselves. nixon said it. he wasn't right about a lot of things. who should know more than nixon about how hatred destroys you. >> david ignatius, your thoughts on 2022 as we look ahead to 2023. >> i share a lot of the optimism you and joe are expressing. i think 2022 was a year in which the party of crazy got pounded. america decided they wanted candidates who are closer to the traditional, you know, national

order of our politics. i think that was a significant result. there's ways in which january 6th seems like a long time ago. we're a different country now in subtle ways, and i think we should all be grateful for that, and grateful for the people of the justice department, and the congressional committee who have investigated january 6th so thoroughly. in the world i see a lot of positive things. i do see the values we cherish in a struggle. in ukraine, there's a brutal war that does bear comparison to world war i taking place, a war of attrition. nightly pounding of the cities of ukraine by truly a despotic leader. i think putin is losing. i think he knows it. i think zelenskyy and the ukrainian people are winning but there's a lot more i fear

bloodshed ahead in that war. china, it's startling to see the failure of xi's covid policies in dealing with covid. this has been a bad year. so many things have gone wrong, and he's having to reverse course. his ability to seize taiwan grows more complicated. when i travel in germany or france even, i find people just speak about the possibilities, the aspiration for freedom in a way that they wouldn't have ten years ago, that's great. germany is on a different course than it was. iran, there's a movement that, believe it or not, is actually challenging the power to run the stifling society, women and iran have been unbelievably courageous in 2022, and there's

every prospect that the movement would continue. the point is this is in the balance. the fight that's continuing. the good guys are incredibly brave, and they could lose. >> admiral stavridis, that's what i think is so important, as we look back at 2022, we look back at a lot of victories for democracy in 2022, we look at the fact that democracy began after six to eight years, not just in the united states, but globally. to push back against the authoritarian creep. and i would say that creep actually became a blitz, obviously, as you would too in late february. with vladimir putin, but we're talking here about how in 2022, gravity returned, justice returned. people that beat the hell out of police officers, people who tasered police officers with american flags. people who abused american

democracy, they got sent to jail. they're still getting sent to jail. people that wanted to deny democracy, madisonian democracy, got defeated at the ballot box. vladimir putin thought, as he thought for years, he would roll into kyiv and take over for three to six days. that has changed. i must say, as remarkable as the ukrainian spirit has been, they have taught the world so much about fighting for freedom, i agree with david ignatius, as we look forward to 2023, a spark has been reignited in europe that has been dead for a long time. and that spark is about a love and a quest for democracy and the understanding that they're actually going to have to pay for it to get it. that day going to have to build up their defenses. they're going to have to take part in this fight against

russia, against china. against iran. these tyrants, who are trying to suppress democracy. >> let's mention one other great figure who sailed on in this past year, and it's colin powell, one of my great life mentors, and something he said, and i'd encourage everyone to google colin powell's 13 rules for life. four of them deal with optimism. optimism is a force multiplier. it will look better in the morning. it can be done. that spirit, that kind of optimism, cautious, clear-eyed optimism is a powerful force. if we lay that alongside what we have been talking about. michael and david and i this morning, you lay that alongside

the power of democracy as an idea and as an ideal. it's imperfect. we execute it without perfection, but it's the right set of ideals, and the right idea for these times. so, yeah, i agree with david, we ought to be very worried about what hangs in the balance in ukraine, in china, ultimately in iran, and in other parts of the world, but as michael said, i wouldn't bet against democracy particularly when you align it with optimism and powerful leadership like we saw from colin powell, and we will continue to see, i believe, internationally from the united states, and from europe. and final thought, just to draw a line under it, the degree to which we can pull europe into equation on a positive side is an extraordinarily important strategic asset for the united

states. this is a huge economy, taken together, militarily taken together. it's the second largest military budget in the world, bigger than china's bigger than russias that often surprises people. the europeans if they pull together in the right direction as partners with the united states, there's very little we cannot accomplish together. if you throw together japan in the pacific, the network of allies, partners and friends, i'm feeling pretty good about where the world could go in 2023. >> i'm sure glad you brought up europe. it's something we said often during donald trump's presidency, a lot of trumpists love to attack europe, love to push them to the side. you look at the eu's economy and our economy taken together. it's extraordinary. it dwarves china's.

let's not even talk about, my god, let's not talk about russia. texas's gdp dwarf's russia. i'm so good admiral stavridis brought up colin powell. i think of him when we talk about our top story of the day. i think of him because we had him on our show, and he was talking about january 6th, and he said he was pacing the floors in his home looking at the right saying what you and i were saying to our tv sets, yelling at our tv sets that i'm sure everybody else was. which was general powell said where the hell are the police. where the hell is the military. and that is a question, of course, that we are still asking today. >> so we mix with the optimism that we're sharing this morning with this reality of our top story. >> by the way, two things can be true at the same time. we have to look back at our failures as we also talk about

some of the things that are working. >> yes, the u.s. capitol police chief during the january 6th insurrection is sharing new details about the alleged government failures he says allowed the attack to happen. in a new book out tomorrow, which has been reviewed by "the washington post," steven sun gives his firsthand account of the capitol insurrection. in the book sunday writes that top leaders from the fbi, dhs, and even the capitol police's own intelligence division were tipped off about the attack weeks before it happened. but those warnings were never shared with him. sund also details failures to respond to the violence in realtime, including a conference call shortly after rioters breached the capitol. where pentagon leaders allegedly refused to deploy national guard teams to the team.

sund writes that lieutenant told him he didn't like the optics of sending uniformed guard troops to the capitol but could allow them to replace police officers at roadside check points. sund says he later learned at the same time pentagon leaders were rushing to send security teams to protect the homes of military officials, none of which were under attack. additionally, sund claims during the insurrection, many national guard troops returned to their command center and clocked out of their shifts as if it was a normal day. sund who resigned at the day after the riot at the request of house speaker nancy pelosi warns that many of the same internal failures that allowed the insurrection to take place have not been fixed today. so this is where we are as we, you know, continue in the long road to getting our country back

in order. >> right. >> and respect for the constitution and respect for our democratic process, we have to look at what happened still, even though it feels like a long time ago. >> and jonathan lemire, i know you have a question for david ignatius. let me go to you first. this is something after january 6th, i don't know, i got a little heated on january 7th. and one of the things i was yelling about was what the hell happened at the pentagon. i want to know the time line. i want to know why the fbi. we talked about all of this, and just bluntly, we haven't gotten the clarity. the january 6th report did a lot of great things. we have not yet gotten all of the clarity we need to understand all of the massive failures but i think one thing that we have to just say, and you know, i know trumpists would like us to pretend this didn't happen. we can't pretend it didn't happen. there are a lot of people that were frozen in place in the military chain of command

because they knew that donald trump did not want the riot broken up. >> there's no question there, and trump, of course, didn't do anything himself to summon the national guard. we recall vice president pence from the capitol having to ask, where are the troops, why has this not happened yet. we heard cries from speaker pelosi for the same. it was reluctant because of the backlash to what had happened a few months earlier, that again, was donald trump's doing when he used military police and law enforcement to clear out peaceful protesters from lafayette park, the george floyd protests outside the white house because he wanted to have a photo op at the church. the military got heat for that, including joint chief of staff milli, his defense staff at the time. there was reluctance for the pentagon to move again.

let's be clear, they moved against one group protesting against donald trump, didn't move against this one, a group protesting for donald trump, and as much as we are optimistic about where things are, one of the things that president biden often says in the after math of january 6th is it's about the rivalry between democracies and autocracies, and proving that democracies can work for people, and failures like this need to be addressed in order to make that happen. david ignatius, this is a stunning report, particularly the idea that the pentagon was going to send protection to the homes of military leaders who were never at any point in any danger that day. you know. you cover this institution closely and carefully. what is your analysis of what went wrong that day, and to the charge that some of the failures might still exist? >> i think the first thing to say is that the pentagon was so worried about a repetition of june 1 and lafayette square and

the appearance of militarization of the response to protests that it leaned too far in the other direction, leaned too far against militarizing the response on january 6th. that's why they were slow to call out the national guard. relied, as it turns out, too much on the capitol police that simply wasn't prepared. the fear in the minds of pentagon leaders is that president trump would declare the insurrection act, that he would use that as a pretext to call out the military and perhaps try to re-run the election in some key state, that something was being pushed on him by mike flynn, but use the insurrection act as a way of gaining control. there were efforts underway in those days to seize control of the cia, of other intelligence

agencies as part of an effort to control power. i think the fundamental point is that the military was fighting the last war, the june 1 war, and the june 6th -- the january 6th conflagration was different. as we look back, it's interesting to run the counter factual. suppose they had called out troops with a lot more armament at the capitol, as those rioters were breaching the capitol, and shots have been open fired, you would have had a scene like tiananmen square. there would have been a lot of deaths of protesters, how would that have played out. it's hard to imagine that playing out well. it may be as we identify and prosecute those who did the insurrection on january 6th that were lucky that this wasn't a blood bath that would have left a far different taste in the mouth of people. >> admiral stavridis, i would

guess that really the last thing that any military man or woman wants to do is be called in against fellow americans. >> absolutely. one thing to bear in mind is that we, the pentagon, we the military are not unfamiliar with working alongside law enforcement, working alongside police. the place we do this a lot is encounter narcotics. we get the department of defense to provide the backbone, the muscle, the logistics, the force that moves forward, and then on the point of the law enforcement activity, you have police officers, sworn police officers. now, you don't want to be in a world where the u.s. military is shooting down protesters, but you can be in a world whereby bringing forcefully the national guard in this case, which we

recall as citizen soldier as distinct from pure active duty military, bring them in, put them behind the capitol police, show that capability, i think it would have quelled the spirit if you will of the trump legions. we'll never know. david's point is well taken. it's a counter factual. what we have is a situation where at the end of the day, i think those pentagon leaders probably are thinking they were too slow to react. too late. if they could run the clock, my guess is they would take more aggressive action but leave us short of a tiananmen square scenario. that's a delicate balance and a hard one, but what we all watched that day, we never want to see it again, and the national guard, i think, would have been the right answer early on. >> and as you said, there's a balance there, and how you moved forward, we must keep it in

context, there were also leaders, washington, d.c. leaders that were saying no to military -- to the national guard when they were asked about it, even in the morning, in case protests got rowdy, looking if context of june the 1st with the national guard and one of the low points if you talk to general milley, one of the low points for the military in quite some time, spent several days, apologizing to troops worldwide in what i thought to be a moving display that talked about the greatness of the united states military, and even the most powerful general thinks he has to be accountable to every single serviceman and woman, and i thought that was very inspiring, but that is the context. also talking about context, michael beschloss, let's talk about context here.

as liz cheney, i think, has underlined brilliantly, donald trump perhaps the most offensive thing that donald trump did is he sat in front of the tv set for hours watching these riots, refusing to call them off. when kevin mccarthy was screaming at him from the capitol, call your rioters off, and trump said it's antifa, and mccarthy said i'm here, i know who they are. they're you're people. when don jr. was begging to call them off. ivanka was begging him to call them off. one staff member after another begging him to call them off. his attorneys, donald trump didn't do that. at the end of the day, we can talk about what did the fbi miss, the national guard do wrong. we can talk about all of that,

bottom line is very simple, donald trump could have stopped this anytime he wanted, and he didn't want it to stop because he wanted the rioters to make it to the capitol and he wanted them to get on the floor and stop the vote. >> i would go even one step further beyond you and liz cheney and at least ask the question, how much was donald trump the architect of all of this since even before the election of 2020. we know that he was talking in public saying the election is going to be rigged if i lose, trying to undermine confidence in the result. and take a look at the things he was doing in plain sight in november and december. we talked about it on this program. do you remember when trump was trying to maneuver sort of minor officials into key roles in the justice department, in the defense department, other places in the government.

attorney general barr whips for an unknown reason in december. i remember saying to my wife, you know, trump must be planning something pretty bad, if even barr cannot stomach this. barr has to get out before it happens. we have to at least ask the question, did donald trump from at least election night, plot to bring all of this about on the 6th of january. and all sort of things that we see thanks to the january 6th committee. but some things we still don't know about yet. what kind of contact did he and his people have with domestic terrorists, and i think what emerges is at least the strong possibility that what he had in mind, just as decade has been saying was that on january 6th there would be what he would call an uprising at the capitol. there would be violence, in response, he might declare martial law and say we have to impound the election machines as

he raised more than once in these private conversations and by sun down on the 6th of january, we might have had martial law, and as president and allies, there were 120 members of the house who voted against accepting the electoral college results. this was not a narrow focused plot, and had all of that happened, you could have had a president just like mayor giuliani after 9/11, do you remember how he said, i have to stay in office, even though my term expires on new year's day, 2002, trump would have said i have to stay in office. i have martial law. can't have an election under such circumstances, and the result could have been god knows what. our founders were wise people, but even they who were suspicious of human nature always expected that men and

women would never always be angels. they never imagined you would have a president of the united states plotting against our own political system, and i think we have to have a number of reforms in law to make sure it doesn't happen again. >> agreed. we have as a country been blessed that we have been able to operate under the assumption that everybody that makes it to the oval office, at the end of the day, regardless of our political differences, has best interest of the country at heart. it just wasn't the case over the past five years or so. and that is a serious problem. i will say, mika, coming up in news, you heard michael talking about donald trump planning to plot to this election as he told everybody it would be rigged. coming up in news after the break, we have an admission from him to one of his former chief of staffs that he knew he lost

arizona, knew he lost other states. >> there's more to come. nbc news presidential historian, michael beschloss, and james stavridis, thank you very much for being on this morning. on "morning joe," we'll take a look at other news making headlines, including the latest on kevin mccarthy's bid to become the next house speaker. the election is tomorrow, and he still might not have enough votes. plus, six years worth of former president trump's tax returns have been released to the public. we're taking a look at the biggest take aways including huge write offs and a lack of charitable contributions. also ahead, why trump's reign of republican terror is really ending. matt lewis joins the conversation from his latest piece. for the daily beast, you're watching "morning joe."

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and play with my daughter. i can eat anything. like, i don't have to worry. clearchoice changed my life. 34 past the hour, here's a look at other stories making headlines this morning. three new york city police officers are out of the hospital and recovering after they were attacked during celebrations in times square on new year's eve. investigators say the suspect wielding a machete approached the officers and swung at their heads before he was shot in the shoulder and apprehended. police identified the suspect as trevor bickford, a 19-year-old from maine and say federal agents interviewed him last month after a relative alerted him to his jihadist writings online. investigators say they found a diary with notes they say may

have indicated the suspect believed he was on a suicide mission. it's unclear if he will face state or federal charges or both. he remains in custody at the hospital while being treated for the gunshot wound to his shoulder. the man arrested on suspicion of killing four university of idaho students nearly two months ago is expected to face charges of first-degree murder. police in pennsylvania announced friday that they had arrested 28-year-old bryan kohberger, a doctoral student in moscow, idaho. investigators say he has knowledge about forensics, and the evidence prosecutors look for to win cases as well as the mind sets of criminals. lawmakers have not yet released key information in the case, including a motive or his possible relationship with the four victims.

the four students were killed on november 13th at a house near campus. the suspect's family is cooperating with authorities. in a statement released by the family's lawyers, they say they will let the legal process unfold and promote the presumption of innocence. ahead this morning, we're going to get a live report from idaho and speak with a former fbi profiler about the apprehended suspect in the quadruple homicide. >> and we are following developing news. in the past 24 hours, actor, jeremy renner is listed this stable condition after an incident at his nevada home while he was plowing snow. renner was air rifted to a hospital to receive medical treatment where his spokesperson says he is receiving quote excellent care. his home is located about 25 miles outside of reno, nevada, in a region near lake tahoe that

saw thousands of homes lose power during a storm on new year's eve. and the funeral for retired pope benedict 16th is held thursday. the first pope in 600 years to resign his position, rather than hold office for life. he was 95 years old. and this morning, we are also remembering legendary journalist and tv host barbara walters, who died on friday at the age of 93. during her career spanning more than five decade, walters became known for ground breaking interviews with celebrities and world leaders. walters was also the first woman to cohost the "today" show and anchor an evening news program. and if i may say, barbara walters was a trail blazer and icon and a legend, a fierce

journalist, all of those things, but she was also a woman who was way ahead of her time. she not only knew her value, she knew it enough to demand to be paid as much as other male journalists in the industry. and she was audacious and ambitious enough to demand more money than anyone else in the industry, and i just want to say ambition was a word that even when i was starting out that was sort of criticized, if women used it, if women expressed ambition, and barbara walters turned that concept around for me and many other women. and by the way, she got that money. in 1976, she shattered glass ceiling after glass ceiling, on the "today" show, and the creator and driving force behind the view, a show like her entire professional career, dedicated to promoting and uplifting

women. she will be missed. her legacy will be followed. >> no doubt about it. it really is remarkable the career that she had, and i've heard so many people celebrate her life. she was just so far ahead of her time. >> yeah. >> and was just fearless. >> tough. absolutely. coming up, following the release of his tax returns, there are a lot of questions about what kind of audits donald trump was under while in office. our next guest one a pulitzer prize for her work looking into trump's finances. plus, the latest from ukraine amid a relentless series of russian missile strikes, including an attack on new year's eve that left three civilians dead. "morning joe" is coming right back with much more. back with much more. u won't clock out. so u bring ubrelvy.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is 44 past the hour. look at that beautiful shot of new york city. the sun has yet to come out. but for many, it is time to get back to work after a lovely holiday, after years of legal wrangling, and a supreme court case in their favor, the house ways and means committee released six years of donald trump's taxes on friday. the report reveals that trump reported financial losses of over $30 million in 2015 and 2016. over 13 million in 2017. and losses close to 5 million in 2020. the former president reported positive incomes worth millions in both 2018 and 2019. we also learned that trump paid very little in federal taxes when he was president. over the course of five years, trump paid $2 million in taxes and in 2020, the trumps claimed

major losses in the u.s. which resulted in a $0 tax bill. they paid zero. and a tax return of $5 million, despite losing millions in the u.s., the trumps did earn $78 million from foreign countries in 2020, and over the course of trump's presidency, he received payments from at least 22 foreign countries including china, brazil, the uk and the philippines. let's bring in investigative reporter from the "new york times," suzanne craig, she won a pulitzer prize for work looking into the finances and taxes of donald trump, and david ignatius has the first question for you, suzanne, david. . >> your work has been so superb on this, i just want to ask you to stand back as you look at the latest release of trump's tax information and assess trump as

a business person. i wonder if you looking at this material suspect that this great trump empire was really a house of straw, that there's much less substance to it, but i'd be interested in your assessment. >> it was interesting to get the latest taxes. when we looked at them, there are things that jump out, but it really does confirm simply a lifetime of businesses that he has run that he loses money on. i'm going to step back and talk about finances, because he has, in his life, had two real well springs of money. the first came from his father, who for fred trump's entire life supported donald trump's business ventures, and most of that is punctuated by fred trump had his back every time donald trump lost money. and when fred trump died, he and donald trump inherited, you know, tens of hundreds of

millions of dollars. the second wellspring comes from the apprentice of mark burnett, that started in 2004, and we see not only a huge rush of money that he got from the apprentice but all the licensing deals. he has these two well springs of money, and in between that, the businesses that he has had management control over almost without exception has lost money. he plowed money into so many businesses. we saw the casinos, and in the '80s, you've got football games, airline, they all lose money, and then he goes into golf courses later in his career. most of those have lost money consistently. and capitol injections. these two pot of money have kept him going. we see in the white house, as mika was talking about, in one year he did well, in 2018, he had a fair bit of positive taxable income. most of that came from the sale,

it was an investment that his father made in the early 1970s that was sold. into the white house, you see fred trump once again coming to boost donald trump's finances, and in all of the years he was in the white house, we also saw that he got money. there wasn't a huge amount but money coming from trusts that were set up when he was younger. >> it's jonathan lemire. not much of a surprise, these don't show much in the way of charitable contributions. the biggest question has been the idea of foreign investment, where he's making money overseas and ties particularly to, perhaps russia. the tax returns show us a little bit of bank accounts in other countries, money coming from other nations. break it down. what does it mean. is there anything here that is raising alarms? >> the money coming in from overseas, is typically licensing

fees, licensing his name to a hotel, be it turkey or other countries. sometimes they're a little bit more complicated than a one-time fee, and those have been lucrative for him. we saw, though, in 2020, the times obtained decades of taxes up to 2018. and what we saw was him entering the white house that those licensing fees were starting to tail off. there was a lot of speculation, that he was running for president to bolster his name so that he could, you know, use that potentially to profit from it, but we saw those drying up. but he does have bank accounts in many countries. that's not unusual. we found when we did the 2020 piece, for example, he has a bank account in china. that on the surface, you know, there may be something suspicious there, or there may not be. there's usually easier ways if you're going to bribe somebody, than to place the money in an account, book a hotel or book a

room for a weekend or week. there was no suggestion in the ways and means report that that account was suspicious, but they're there, and he has them in many countries. >> and yet again, he felt the need to lie about it in a press conference. >> he did. right, joe. he said he closed it in i think 2015. >> some people lie when telling the truth would be easier. >> chronic. >> finally, just underline this, and i think it's important to underline this. after everything that you have looked through. after everything you have dug through his entire life financially, this is a guy who basically, i think it's fascinating, he was bailed out by his daddy when his daddy was alive, and bailed out by his daddy when his daddy passed away, inside the white house. >> it was remarkable. at every turn in his life, fred trump had his back. i think the money he got from

fred just goes to, when you're taking risks, if you know somebody is there, it just corrupts the whole decision making process, and some of that led to nonfinancial decisions he has made in the white house. but it's incredible to see that fred trump once again was there for more than $20 million that donald trump got that year from the sale of the property or around 20 million. >> investigative reporter for the "new york times," suzanne craig, thank you very much for joining us with your reporting. >> thank you. >> thanks a lot. let's bring in senior columnist for the daily beast matt -- >> hold on, freeze on the title. >> it's good. >> my mom also said don't count your chickens before they hatch. >> what's he doing? >> i think he's counting his chickens, before they hatch. he says it's over. i don't know that it's over. >> let's hear from matt's piece. why trump's reign of republican

terror is really ending, and matt, you write in part this, any way you slice it, 2022 was a terrible, horrible, no good year for donald trump. to be sure, trump could play harry houdini in 2023, the access hollywood tape that emerged in 2016 and the capitol riot five years later earned lots of republican outrage, only for him to somehow emerge stronger than ever. but nothing we have seen in the last year or so suggests that he has the same energy or magic that allowed him to escape any accountability in the past. after years of failing upward gravity finally reasserted itself in 2022. the chickens, it seems, have come home to roost. whether fellow republicans can successfully step into the void,

remains to be seen, and that is the question. >> matt, that is the question. >> who is that person. >> certain polls show donald trump comfortably ahead against rank and file republicans. >> you can't beat somebody with nobody, but i do say, joe, whatever chicken analogy is right, counting my chickens before they have hatched or if the chickens have come home to roost, i don't think this is the same naive that i displayed years earlier when i had written off donald trump prematurely. that's true for a couple of reasons. one, this has been a long -- i don't have to tell you, this has been a long time coming and i went back and looked at donald trump's year. 2022 was a horrible year, not just because of the midterms. it started off with a rally in arizona that was horrible, that didn't live up to expectations, he seemed off of his game. then he praised vladimir putin's

brilliance, you know, genius for going into ukraine. we did see a little bit of the old magic with the mar-a-lago raid. i think that's the best thing that happened to donald trump, where it created a rally around the flag effect, but it was short lived. and so i think the difference is not only has this been a long time coming, but i'm not really suggesting anything magical. i'm not suggesting republicans are going to come to their senses. what i am suggesting is human nature. i think people have finally gotten bored with him. i think we have short attention spans, and i think he's gotten older, and i think he's being supplanted. he's being supplanted by someone on the right. ron desantis, i think, that's the question, does desantis run, but i also think donald trump is being supplanted in the, you know, what i would call the attention economy. it's not just ron desantis in the political realm. it's also people like elon musk who i think are taking up

sucking up the twitter oxygen that donald trump used to receive. it was a horrible year for trump in 2022. maybe he rebounds. but for the first time, i think he's starting to look old and not just old in age, but old news. >> matt, it's jonathan. certainly this is the weakness trump has been since january 7th. you make an important point there about attention. this is what republicans have been telling me for weeks now. they just can't believe trump's not doing anything. he's just -- he's generated all of these bad headlines since launching the campaign, the dinner with the white supremacist, the nft nonsense. he's not holding rallies or events. he did offer a media availability near mar-a-lago, and basically all the media skipped it. just a couple fringe right wing online publications went to hear him speak.

so what could he do to change that, to get attention? do you really believe that the act is tired? or is it perhaps when legal peril comes in a perverse way, it's an indictment that could get people to stop talking and caring about trump again? >> first of all, i think some of it has to do with his track record. was it -- we can't undermine or down play the effect that simply republicans have gotten off the band wagon because he's a proven loser. to your point, i do think he should get out there. some of this may be laziness. it may be fatigue. boredom, not just boredom with trump but from trump. why isn't he out there holding more rallies. that is a question, if he were

aggressive or energetic, would he be in better shape. i don't think we can answer that. i do think, however, that his act is also tired. that the things that used to get him attention, you know, we've burned out our, you know, outrage receptors, and in a way, i think donald trump is a victim of his own success. i heard someone say this, make this point the other way, it's not original to me. when you are an act, let's say the beatles, and this huge breakout. i think john horris might have said this on his podcast, when you have a show like sign if he would -- seinfeld that redefines the genera, everybody is imitating you. you're competing against yourself, and a whole bunch of imitators, and i think that is part of donald trump's problem is he is a victim of his own success. he is now facing a lot of

imitators who are younger and more relevant than he is. so would he be doing better if he got out there if he gave it more energy and effort, probably. but i still don't know. he is running against extension in a sense. >> he also, if you want to do a musical analogy, i mean, with the apologies to elvis, he is elvis 1977 and he's just singing all of the old songs, donald trump's speech hasn't changed in six, seven years, and he's still looking backwards. >> and he has five different legal processes that could end up burning him terribly, and suddenly to, you know, either criminal, you know, convictions even. so he's got a lot of stress in his life. >> and as matt said the act is, well, matt said it, the act is getting old. senior columnist for the daily

beast, still the man with the best background. matt lewis. thank you so much. david ignatius, we don't know if donald trump is heading for the political exits or not, but you look at what foreign leaders are saying, what diplomats from our nato countries are saying. they're still fearful. i have a quote from a recent l.a. times article here. it says one diplomat who spoke with the times pointed to months immediately after january 6th, 2021 when republican leaders shifted from condemning trump to taking a side. the period was crucially said, because it illustrated that pressure to fall behind trump was coming from the ground up. you know this far better than any of us. there was a fear, despite what we may think in america that donald trump is going to return to the white house. i think that fear exists.

i think there's a deeper fear, if america is the kind of country that to the astonishment of europeans and people around the world could elect donald trump, what else could happen? what's happening on a deeper level in the united states? is the movement that trump ended up leading still as powerful and potentially dangerous as it was? i think that's what i hear when i talk to people overseas, that the wellsprings of trumpism, of make america great again, of turning inward this angry america that trump embodied. is that still there? is that still going to move out into a world that in so many ways, as you said at the beginning of this hour is more idealistic in a better direction. is america moving along with it. >> david ignatius. >> thank you, david. >> thank you so much for being with us. happy new year to you.

>> look forward to seeing you a lot in 2023. >> so, mika, you know this. >> i do. because i have been watching you watch. jack and i haven't moved all weekend. >> just the couch potato syndrome. >> you know, i don't do a lot of sitting. this weekend? . >> you did a lot. >> the college games, which we'll get to in a second. i have never seen anything like it. and you talk about alabama 12, and then michigan and tcu at 4, and then, my gosh, georgia and ohio state until the clock struck midnight on new year's eve. >> what was that? >> an insane day. we'll get to that in a second. but yesterday, yesterday, also fascinating because we're getting a lot better idea of the nfl playoff picture after this weekend's game. i want to show you some of the biggest touchdowns scored by the

winning teams across the nfl, across the weekend. >> ten for jacksonville. there he goes. see you later, touchdown. a 62 yard run. bridgewater, interception. picked off by kyle dugger. works the sideline, stutter step move, and he's in. touchdown, patriots. jones again, there he is. he can see the pylon. touchdown. panthers drop. brady going deep. evans again, he's got it. number 3. first down and ten. mccaffrey, walking in front,

mccaffrey in for the touchdown. >> both sides so far, nine plays, only 12 yards total for both teams combined. no first downs. this is nixon, who's dangerous. oh, here he goes. my goodness. he's taking it the distance. >> that win for green bay has them one win away from the playoffs. and talking about keeping playoff hopes alive, the pittsburgh steelers are going to head into week 18 with a chance at the post season, thanks to a last minute comeback win over the ravens. >> pressure, throws. caught by harris. throwing a touchdown. oh, what a play. and the steelers take the lead. >> put pittsburgh on top, 56 seconds left, the sealers beat

the browns next week with losses by the miami dolphins and new england patriots to make the post season. here's the afc playoff pictures as it stands this morning. the chiefs are the number one seed for now, but tonight's game between the bills and the bengals could change that. the jaguars and the titans squared off on sunday to decide who's the number four seed. jacksonville is just so hot right now. and the last playoff spot still up for grabs, the patriots, dolphins and steelers, all fighting for the chance to be the first team to be blown out in the playoffs. the philadelphia eagles are the top seed again, for now, they keep losing without jalen hurts. that should change. the niners and cowboys could emerge in the top spot, depending on the final game. the cowboys just, i'm sorry, the cowboys have not looked impressive over the past few months. the vikings, horrid, just absolutely horrid. funny enough, tom brady sitting

at 8 and 8. 8 and 8. going to be getting into the playoffs. let's just stop right there because jonathan lemire, i didn't even talk about my lions, jack and i were one in five saying this is the most exciting team in football. the lions have been crazy fun to watch this year. they've got a shot of getting into the playoffs. a couple of things here. first of all, the jags are so hot right now, just come out of nowhere. the vikings just deplorable. they looked deplorable yesterday. they had a couple of blowouts a few weeks back. i mean, the highlight of the year is coming back 30 points. this is a team, they look good on offense from time to time. the defense is one of the worst in football. i've got to talk to you, two story lines. yesterday, what a pathetic game between the pats and dolphins. looked so good at the beginning

of the year. this was just really a struggle as i said, to be the first team to be blown out in the playoffs. and then brady, got to say, he's looked really bad this year. but, man, brady, to evans yesterday, it was a flashback to the glory years of tom brady, and especially the third touchdown pass was just mind blowing. but literally put it, the only place he could put it, while evans was on just streaking down the sidelines, and you just, you can't help but think, like the great pumpkin, rising from the pumpkin patch every night for good little boys and girls. you can't help but think this late in the season, when brady finally wakes up, then you're like, wait, is this just one game. is this a flash in the pants. are we going to see tom brady

make a run again. >> january is tom brady's month. he was great yesterday. 432 yards. threw three touchdowns. he has made the playoffs, ready for this. 21 straight seasons. that's insane. we will never have anything like that again. the bucs team not great. maybe they had a run come january. a couple of notes. they're 12-4. they have given up more points than they have scored. how about that. lions, packers, could be for the playoffs, jags, titans, definitely for a playoff spot. we have been talking about them a lot this year. giants in the playoffs, jets out. jets out again. they now have the longest drought in the nfl in terms of making the playoffs. tonight's game will be great. bengals, bills, one of the best games of the year, could go a long way to setting home field. i think what we have here, joe is a wide open nfl going into the playoffs.

chiefs are good. mahomes is great. they're not balling people out either. bills, bengals are contenders. there's a lot up for grabs. we'll go into the playoffs with no real favorites. it's going to be wide open. >> every time i'm about to pick a team, a can't beat team, eagles a few weeks ago. hurts goes out. if he comes back strong, maybe they return to that unbeatable team. they have not looked good the past couple of weeks. they're missing their quarterback. the 49ers, i would have told you before yesterday, the 9ers were the team to beat. ended up being the 9ers and the chiefs, but yesterday, the raiders, just, again, blow by blow. i mean, they looked great against the 49ers. and they're not that good of a team. >> what can you say, the back up quarterback, just did a remarkable job. mika is looking at me, i'm in trouble. i don't have a lot of time to

give to this. >> no, you don't. >> since it was probably the most remarkable day for college football on saturday on new year's eve, i've got to talk about the match up between college football's national championship following two amazing playoff games, a third seeded tcu horn frogs, face georgia bulldogs, tcu put up 51 points, and held on to beat michigan. there was a bogus call where michigan was robbed of a touchdown. also, there was a targeting hit late in the game that the refs slowed down the clock, decided not to call targeting. we'll leave that with the officials. ohio state, that was shocking. ohio state seemed to dominate georgia throughout the game but the game came down to this as

the clock struck 12:00 midnight, unbelievable. watch this. >> final minute, touchdown. it's underway. no good, he hooked it. and georgia is going to survive. >> i mean, jonathan, my god. >> oh, i felt bad for him. >> i felt so bad for him. he never will have to pay for a beer it again in the state of georgia. what a heartbreaking way for ohio state to lose. day dominated the game. came back, you do kind of wonder why the coach didn't try to push the ball further down into georgia territory before taking that kick, but, man, two games. >> brutal. >> and if you put the alabama game on top of that. that was just like literally 12 hours of extraordinary college football. >> the clock, as you said, struck midnight as the kicker launched that kick. fireworks in times square and

athens, georgia, because he hooked it so badly. the kicker had made a long one earlier in the game. maybe he was thinking he could do that again, he badly mis-hit it. you feel bad for him. those were two great high scoring games and the final, a week from tonight, should be fun, but you got to figure, tcu, great story, georgia is the favorite. >> and let me say, i owe an apology to the bowl committee, selection committee, because, man, i thought the selections were a joke. you had ohio state that got blown out in the second half of their game against michigan at home, final game of the season, they lost 28-3 in the second half against michigan for their final game, and then you have tcu who, i'm sorry, none of us, people don't have to jump on me. nobody thinks the big 12 is a

good conference. no reason to believe it's a good conference and put anybody out over the past decade. i went back to check last night to see why i was so blinded by this bias towards southern football teams. there's a reason. because since 2006, ohio state in 2014, the only team not from the deep south to win the national championship. every other year it's been alabama, it's been clemson, it's been lsu, it's been auburn. it's been, you know, florida state. it's been teams from the deep south. so i just got to say, tcu, i'm shocked. i think we're all shocked. they're a really good football team, and the bowl committee saw that, and i will tell you, a lot of people like me from the deep south did not see that but, man, they have earned a spot against the georgia bulldogs. >> it's going to be great. that was a really fun back-to-back.

so many points, with a really good quarterback play. very different quarterbacks here. the tc qb loves to tuck it and run. stetson bennett, an older college player, airing it out. that georgia defense, as a final thought, all yearlong, we have heard, just like nfl player after nfl player, after future nfl player. they got lit up on saturday. so you assume they'll have to make some adjustments to stop a high flying team. it should be good. i think my pick would be the bulldogs. and our quarterback here has gone rogue, as it is 14 past the hour, and i'm now just introducing our guest for the hour. one thing quickly, jonathan lemire. >> oh, my god. >> the quarterback for the georgia bulldogs, the same age as the quarterback for the baltimore ravens. >> and lamar jackson has been in the league four years.

>> crazy. >> very old. joinings the conversation we have pulitzer prize winning kol -- columnist, eugene robinson, thanks for hanging in there. >> gene. >> i got to talk. i got to talk. mika, i'm sorry, but listen, you know, that michigan game, i was dying. i couldn't believe michigan didn't play well enough to deserve to win, that's for sure, and they were playing from behind, and they almost caught up but not quite. it was heartbreaking. however, my favorite new yorker cartoon of all time is one with two dogs sitting in a bar, one dog says to the other, it's not enough that dogs win, cats must fail, and so it was somewhat gratifying that final field goal in the ohio state/georgia game was a miss.

i'm sorry. i'm not a good person. but michigan didn't win. but ohio state also lost. so. >> i've got to say, the hate runs deep in this one, jedi. i mean, the fact that, gene. >> this poor guy. >> suffered with michigan losing and then sat through the night game, just cheering against ohio state. it makes us very sad, gene. >> like i said, i'm a bad person, but that's who i am. >> i just got to say now, you know, i try not to complain about ref calls when it pertains to my team. that's whining. i've got to say, though, and yes, you know, the touchdown that was disallowed while the michigan receiver was bobbling the ball until he got possession when he was in the end zone. >> in the end zone.

>> it's just -- that is indisputable. there is no way. there is no way that wasn't a touchdown. everybody knows it was a touchdown, and i really would love to hear the officials explain because that was the difference in the game right there. >> it kind of was, and it was called a touchdown on the field. so you had to have indisputable evidence that it wasn't, and how could you say you had such evidence when you saw that it was a touchdown. but, you know, it was a real turning point in the game. >> it was. >> but you can't put it all on that. i mean, michigan, you know, there were two pick sixes. there were, you know, michigan, let's face it, a michigan team that allows 51 points is not a michigan team playing like a michigan team. you're supposed to have the best defense in the country. sorry. we didn't do that. >> one other thing, too, gene, i have to ask this question,

again, it's a question that needs to be asked. >> mm-hmm. >> if you're going to have a rule against targeting, and if you have a player on a team lower his head and hit the back of a college player's helmet on one of the last plays of the game, clearly targeting and then you slow it down and watch again, and you see that it is clearly targeting, how do you not call that targeting? he game for michigan. >> yeah, it did. ended the game for michigan, and it was clearly targeting. it was a horrible call, so look, i think the michigan players can, you know, can hold their heads high. they had a great year. and, yes, they got hosed with a couple of really really bad calls. but you can also argue that they shouldn't have let themselves be in that position by allowing

them to score 51 points. and by the way, tcu is a pretty darn good team. >> shocking, i got to say i'm shocked. i really am totally shocked by it. what an extraordinary story, but, you know, gene, we're running two different quotes here. yes, two things can be true at the same time, but these seem to be in direct conflict, off the top of the show, to begin the new year, mika and i were talking about a sermon we heard yesterday where the priest said that when you're negative, when you seek revenge, you need to dig two graves, the first one for yourself. and we thought that was a great quote, but now you've given us another quote that we have to mull over and synthesize with the first, and that is it is not enough for dogs to win. cats must lose. >> it's hysterical. >> all right. >> we'll think about that going to break. >> yeah, you've blown through the entire first block of the second hour of "morning joe," so

what we're going to do is take a break. we'll try this again. coming up, china doesn't have just one strain of covid tearing through the country, there are several. dr. scott gottlieb joins the conversation to weigh in on that and the spread here at home and what's ahead. plus, president biden and senate minority leader mitch mcconnell are about to start the new year by touting the benefits of bipartisanship. we'll explain that ahead as well. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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administration would be the riot at the capitol. mulvaney also told the committee that former president donald trump acknowledged to him that he had lost the election in arizona meaning trump was attempting to stay in power even with the knowledge of his defeat. on page 56 of the transcripts, mulvaney recalled a phone call regarding the status of arizona, and instead of hearing about solid numbers showing trump still had a chance to win the state, he primarily got information about lawsuits and not enough evidence for claims of fraud. with mulvaney stating quote, i said, so what you guys are telling me is you've got nothing. msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance points out mulvaney could be a key witness for the department of justice because this revelation shows trump knew he lost but intended to stay in power. something essential for a

criminal case. >> and, mika, we have seen from several witnesses around donald trump. several staff members admitted him saying he lost. i can't believe i lost to this guy. >> and of course the phone call where he says, i need more votes. >> find them, make them up. yeah. >> newly released transcripts reveal ginni thomas, expressed regret for her texts fanning conspiracies for the 2020 election. the committee obtained 29 texts between thomas, and former white house chief of staff mark meadows, which were first reported by "the washington post" and cbs news. thomas urged meadows to do what he could to keep former president donald trump in power despite president biden's win. in one of her messages to meadows, thomas wrote quote help

this great president stand firm, mark, you are the leader with him who is standing for america's constitutional governance. the majority knows biden and left is attempting the greatest heist of our history. this is the wife of the supreme court justice. >> she has also been in washington long enough to know better. in another she wrote quote biden crime family and ballot family coconspirators, censorship mongerers are being arrested and detained for ballot fraud right now, and over coming days, and will be living in barges after gitmo to face military tribunals for sedition. >> that qanon message brought to you by ginni thomas, that's a qanon conspiracy theory that she's spreading to the white house chief of staff. >> one of thomas's stated goals

in the message was for lawyer sidney powell, who promoted incendiary and false claims about the election to be quote the lead and the face of trump's legal team. when interviewed about the communications, thomas told the committee quote i regret all of these texts. it was an emotional time. i was probably just emoting as i clearly was with mark meadows somewhat. thomas also told the committee she was hopeful that state legislatures could identify fraud in the 2020 election thereby allowing the election to be overturned in favor of trump. additionally, she told the panel her actions regarding the 2020 election were quote minimal and mainstream, and that she was quote involved in things that were trying to get to the truth. >> jonathan lemire, no, she wasn't. she wasn't. >> this is someone who's not telling the truth under oath. >> i have to say, i have known

her for a very long time, and of course when she was until the house she was always of course focused on helping republicans in power. that's all she cared about. for conservatives like us that were actually trying to bring reform, she constantly fought us, constantly saw us as the enemy. now on the other side of it, you've got donald trump who loses an election, and she's drawn to power and willing to do just about anything, says they're mainstream. >> come on. >> says her views are mainstream, and she's talking about putting the biden crime family, as she said it. she believes her radical views were mainstream, texted the chief of staff saying the president and his family should be shipped to barges after gitmo to face military tribunals for sedition. you know, there's this victim hood. you look, jonathan, at her statements and her lawyer's statement. she doesn't really regret that

she sent these texts. if you read the transcript, she regrets that they were printed. >> that's correct. >> that's all she regrets. and this victim hood, again, i think it fits perfectly into the twisted logic of trumpism, that the most powerful people in america, the richest billionaires in america, the people that have run america for 400 years, they're the ones who are victimized, the rich are victimized, asked to pay average rates. the powerful are victimized by woke college professors and in her case, the powerful are victimized when they were asked to respond to texts that show that she is trying to overthrow madisonian democracy and the white majority that has run the united states for 400 years is victimized, well, by everyone, especially when they don't win

every election. jonathan lemire, i guess, let's just focus on her claim that her views were quote mainstream. >> well, that is certainly not the case. pretty sure gitmo barges don't apply to mainstream views. this is another moment where we have from those on the trump right suggesting the rules don't apply to them, and they don't apply when they lose, but they're willing to change the rules, and cheat the game to pull whatever lever they have, access to power that they have to maintain that power, and this is the wife of a sitting supreme court justice, again, the one supreme court justice who has voted against some of the efforts to turn over trump documents to investigators. she is texting with great frequency to the chief of staff for the white house, talking about how they were serving, they believe, the greater good, a god driven plan to keep donald

trump in office. there's nothing mainstream about that. >> a god given plan to overthrow democracy. a god driven plan to overthrow american democracy, and they're throwing jesus under the bus. let's play to jesus. that jesus will help us cheat and win this election. and undermine the rule of law in american democracy. that's mainstream, no. no, that's not. that's really whacked out, and by the way, republicans who sit there, if you're sitting there, going, oh, it's so horrible, should i tell them the secret? should i tell them the secret? gently? this is why you keep losing

elections. you see, you are in a little bubble. and you say really crack pot, screwed up things, and this is why you keep losing elections. this is why you lost in 2017, it's why you lost in 2018. it's why you even lost governorships in louisiana and kentucky in 2019. it's why you lost everything in 2020. and it's why democrats handed you everything in 2022. everything. and you couldn't do it. because you keep going down these rabbit holes and you keep losing. stop being crazy. push the weirdos, the insurrectionists, and the freaks to the side, and go mainstream. you'll start winning again. okay, you didn't hear any of that, did you? >> no, i heard everything.

ginni thomas, she needs to hear what you were whispering. >> no, she won't. >> super crazy. >> those are the people you have to push to the side of the republican party. and republicans, i don't know, here's a radical thought, why don't you fight for small government. why don't you fight for tax cuts for small businesses and entrepreneurs. why don't you fight to, like, strengthen nato and help pushing back on russian aggression. these are all sort of things that reagan supported, conservatism. >> for something like january 6th to never happen again, instead of trying to hide behind it. the u.s. capitol police chief during the january 6th insurrection is sharing new details about the alleged government failures he says allowed the attack to happen. in a new book out tomorrow, which has been reviewed by "the washington post" steven sund gives his firsthand account of the capitol insurrections.

in the book, sund writes that top leaders from the fbi, dhs and even the capitol police's own intelligence division were tipped off about the attack weeks before it happened. but those warnings were never shared with him. sund also detailed failures to respond to the violence in rail time, including a conference call shortly after rioters breached the capitol where pentagon leaders allegedly refused to deploy national guard troops to the scene. according to the post, sund writes that lieutenant general walter told him he didn't like the optics of sending uniformed guards to the capitol, but could allow them to replace police officers at check points. sund learned at the same time leaders were rushing to send security teams to protect the homes of military officials, none of which were under attack.

>> let's bring in former cia officer marc polymeropoulos and former fbi agent clint watts, both national security analysts for nbc news. clint, let's start with you, what happened on january 6th? how did this happen? why weren't agencies talking to each other? why weren't the capitol police informed of these growing threats? >> i think a couple of big things stick out, joe, from those two appendices are detailed in the back of the report, and when you look at it, this comes down to one thing. the commander in chief is in charge of security in washington, d.c. he's also the guy on the loan telling people to go to the capitol. everyone was dancing around the fact of how would they secure this event and how would they talk about the threat whenever the supporters of donald trump are the ones applying for permits to go to the capitol that day, and protest. separately from that, i think when you look through the transcript of the interviews, one thing sticks out, the repercussions of the protests in

2020, where the national guard had been deployed in the black lives matter protest and the reactions thereafter, there were helicopters buzzing people in the streets, all of the military leaders are then worried about do we have a plan for what the military's role is going to be. if there is some need for them in the district, then add to that throughout all of the lead up to january 6th you hear talk of and from former lieutenant general flynn saying hey, we're going to have martial law and the military is coming up. there's the optics question where the military is worried, if they send troops, it looks like there's going to be a coup or the military is involved in a coup. the last part that i consistently got in there. we watch too much black hawk down or zero thinkerty. this is a national guard unit mostly deployed to metro stops

at controlled check points, they are not built for civil disturbance, and they are not law enforcement officers. i think we sometimes forget these are people who oftentimes have jobs during the day. they are not trained to go into an insurrection. one counter point i would make in the report that didn't come up is what happens when you take untrained, with no plan soldiers, throw them into this mob where you know there are weapons, there's also another scenario we don't know what could happen, which is a lot of bloodshed on that day, when you send a lot of untrained people with no real plan into the mob that you know has weapons. >> of course the warning ahead of time that wasn't shared. >> that's the big issue. >> obviously that's the big issue there. you could have had people prepositioned, this could have stopped, the protesters would have stopped. there would not have been riots. if they had actually acted on the intel that they had. >> and, mark, is that really -- there could have been a prevention, perhaps, of this assault on the capitol, if these warnings were shared as they

should have been. i do understand the optics issue. having said that at the same time as most were watching this insurrection go down, we were standing in our living room going where's the help, where's the defense? where's the national guard, because you just couldn't believe that this breach was happening, and now it's worse because there were warnings. >> right, mika, i agree with you totally, when i was watching those terrible days, the terrible day on january 6th, that was my first reaction, how did this happen. i think unfortunately this has become a bit political. we can actually say that two things occurred. one is, of course, donald trump and this kind of, you know, the crazies around him really did try to launch a coup, and there has to be accountability. but at the same time, we do have to take a look at the law enforcement intelligence response and in my view, it was a tremendous failure. i think back to the time after 9/11, i remember, you know, waking up on september 12th, and there was huge anger and a desire for revenge against al

qaeda. also with the notion, hey, we failed, and there was tremendous guilt, and there was of course resolve in the days after to take it to al qaeda and afghanistan. it's okay to kind of question, to do what's called an after action review because, you know, at the end of the day, after all of the post 9/11 reforms, the capitol was breached, and that is quite extraordinary. i don't think it's been addressed enough, you know, and i don't even know if it's going to happen with this new congress coming in as well. i couldn't agree more with that. if we need to jump to this next story right now on covid, because we have dr. scott gottlieb standing by. if you could stand by for a moment. amid a surge in new covid cases, chinese president xi jinping says his country has entered a new phase in the fight against the virus, and warns that challenges are ahead. last month, china took steps to ease the strict zero covid strategy that had required mass

testing and lockdowns. in a new year's eve address, xi acknowledged that it had not been an easy journey for anyone. he added that china is moving into a new phase of covid control and called on the public to have patience. let's bring in former fda commissioner dr. scott gottlieb, a member of the board of directors of franchiser, uncontrolled spread. why covid-19 crushed us and how we can defeat the next pandemic. >> doctor, i want to talk about what's going on in the united states, but first, my god, we have to look at china and talk about china. it's hard to imagine xi doing more things wrong than what he's done over the past two to three years. i wonder what you make of the admission over the past weekend that they really have mishandled covid. >> well, look, they went from a very draconian policy they don't think anyone supported to really no plan at all in terms of when

they were going to lift their mitigation, what they were going to do with respect to trying to get the population vaccinated and also have therapeutics available for those at risk of severe covid. they dropped 600 sequences since christmas. it seems to be a mix of ba.5, the variant in the united states, which has run its course in the united states, on to the next variant, along with another variant, bf 7. which is immune evasive. right now, the epidemic is spreading in coastal cities. it has to spread out to the outlying cities and the rural parts of that country, and lunar new year is a moment when that starts to spread in greater numbers. i think they have a long way to go, the risk to china right now is they don't have a single wave of infections sweep across the country, but because they have different variants in the country, some of which can infect people previously infected with over variants, they could have successive waves

of infection. there's nothing to prevent another variant from getting into beijing, and starting to spread at this point. >> dr. gottlieb, let's talk about where we are in the united states. it seems like every time we have a leader going out declaring mission accomplished, covid's done, we have a new wave sweeping through, and this fall i've heard how bad it's been for everybody else. i can tell you, i didn't get covid, mika will tell you, i hardly ever get sick. man, i get slammed with covid when i return from london, and then after a month of pretty massive fatigue, i was hammered by an upper respiratory infection. i'm still feeling the lingering effects from. i've got friends who were just crushed with the flu. all of these people i've talked to, it just sounds like a triple threat out there that we are still, we're still facing some tough times ahead.

>> i think we are. look, flu infections are coming down. so for the third week in a row, hospitalizations for flu have continued to decline. about 19,000 hospitalizations down from a high of around 26,000 during the peak which was a week after thanksgiving. but we're starting to see covid hospitalizations increase, and the variant that we're now grappling with is the xvp variant, which has 14 variants even in the fall and winter with're ba.2 or ba.5 or b q1.1, could get reinflected with this variant. it's not going to be as protective. it's going to retain protection against the xvp variant but not as protective. 40% of the infections in the u.s. were this new variant. it's growing quickly.

75% in the new york city area with the xbb variant. i would expect a new wave of infection. some of us, including myself, had believed it would start to settle down and mutate at a rate closer to the way flu mutates. it's continued to mutate rapidly. it's hard to develop a multivalent vaccine. but it's hard to even develop a multivalent vaccine if covid is going to mutate and new variants emerge. that seems to be what's happening. final point, if you would have tried to guess in the fall what variants would emerge in the winter time, you wouldn't have thought of bf.7, it's hard to predict this virus. >> we're dealing with the flu and rsv and shortages for certain medications and even

antibiotics. what's going on? >> look, this is a sophisticated supply chain with a lot of sophisticated generic manufacturers in these markets. you're seeing the shortage, for example, of amoxicillin, some oral suspensions. that seems to be what's in shortage. what happened is they had two low demand years, they predicted an uptick in demand this year, but not enough, and didn't predict the early demand we saw because of the rsv infection and early flu season we had. a lot of the supply that was produced was used up very early. i think you're going to see capacity build, all of the manufacturers in this market, this isn't like infant formula, where there's a manufacturer that's been taken down or a supply of active pharmaceutical ingredient. i think you'll start to see shortages abate. it was a consequence of a lot of demand and early demand that used up the available supply. >> all right. former fda commissioner scott gottlieb, thank you very much for coming on this morning,

happy new year, good to see you. >> so good to see you again. marc, let me bring you in. let's talk about what's been happening in ukraine over the weekend. the shelling continues. we had uplifted stories of ukrainians going out and cheering as a lot of the incoming getting shot down by ukrainian forces but a very very tough weekend, which most military analysts i talk to tell me just shows that vladimir putin is growing increasingly desperate because when he starts firing missiles into the air randomly, it means he's failing on the ground. >> that's right, and i think that kind of the lesson as we go into 2023 is two words, resolve and resiliency. ukraine is going to go through tough times. there's going to be civilian carnage. vladimir putin is desperate. you're going to see more attacks on civilian infrastructure, energy infrastructure, but i think when we talk about the military analysis of this, we have to move away from the conventional wisdom. a lot of people take a look at

the status quo. it's going to be a long, tough, hard winter. in the old intelligence world, what we would do is plan different contingencies, so how about if we actually do some analysis and say, what if we provide longer range weapons, these longer range missile systems. what if we do more for ukraine, can we affect the status quo, and i think that's where we have to be. i would imagine these are the discussions going on at the national security. i would like to see us certainly try to help ukraine win on a more expedited basis. at the end of the day, there's a humanitarian argument to provide ukraine more. we want to be able -- to hit the point of origin sites. and so that's what i see, 2023 is let's push the boundaries a little bit. let's do a little bit more for ukraine. >> so, clint, obviously the focus of late in this war has

been these russian frankly terror strikes with missiles and drones on civilian targets and the fighting on the front has largely frozen. i know you study the battlefield maps constantly, there has been some warnings from ukrainian officials that they believe that russia is building up their forces to try to have another push, another real assault in the coming months once the weather turns a little bit. what is your sense of that? how real of a threat is that that russia may strike perhaps even make another lung at kyiv? >> yeah, i think it's really interesting, jonathan. for the most part, sure, could they get a couple hundred people together, push them through to the front lines and try to make some sort of push to send a signal or seem like they're being resilient, i think that's highly unlikely. for the most part, what i'm seeing is russian forces deployed out to the front line, don't even have equipment, not properly supplied in any way. food and water is of issue as

much for them as it is for a lot of the ukrainian targets they have been hitting, and we're now talking about people that are just pulled off the streets in russia, thrown to the front lines with minimum equipment. they are nothing more than cannon fodder, essentially a defensive line there. i see it highly unrealistic that they're going to be able to do any massive push. at the same point, you're seeing other elements inside this force, the wagner elements inside the russian, and they're getting destroyed in many cases. they're taking massive casualties. so it's really a war of attrition at this point, and a wait and see, can ukraine hold through the winter, can they keep their electric and humanitarian supply lines going like mark was talking about, and when it starts to warm up, aboutd when it starts to warm up,

and not seeing the bold maneuvers we saw from the russians almost a year ago >> former fbi special agent clint watts and cia mark polymeropoulos, thank you. >> we need to get you at the big board soon we need to talk about the influx of 38-year-old baseball players that we're signing in boston. >> okay. all right. >> thank you to the "morning joe" crew. this is the informing red sox nation support group this is going to get me through the next 40 days before pitchers and catchers report. >> not the first time >> jonathan lemire, do you want to add anything to that? >> yeah. we are not good. we are -- we are acting like a

small market team and without a plan and just sort of like grasping at people out there who are apparently 35 or above. i'd pick us to finish dead last. >> that's the thing we said before. if there's a place, gene robinson, maybe you have a cats and dogs analogy. >> yankees must fail. >> exactly. with the red sox, it is like if you have a plan i'm fine with it. we are building up. the farm team. i can go to fenway. it is fun. give me a plan. i'm sure there's washington baseball fans equally frustrated. look at the superstars. >> exactly. like bryce harper and juan soto

and the people that used to be washington nationals epa who are now on other teams so i believe as is in the case with the boston area code here and the 202 the news has not spread that you canea use the offseason to spend money to improve your team. so we don't seem to be doing that. we have some prospects but we have let the stars go. looks like a bleak year coming up. maybe notng as bleak as it look for the redskins frankly. even from the vantage paint of the washington nationals i don't getat what the red sox are tryi to do. >> live pictures from brazil whereiv there's a ceremony toda to markce the passing of soccere

could pele. things are not looking good for kevin mccarthy. if he becomes house speaker he faces a huge challenge on the far right flank of his own party. we'll go live to capitol hill straight ahead on "morning joe."

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i d d so my y quesonons eouout hicacase.y y son, ♪ call one eight hundred, cacalledhehe bars s fillion ♪ i d d soit was the best call eouout hii could've made. call the barnes firm and find out what your case all could be worth.uld've made. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ a few minutes before the top of the third hour, earlier this morning the kompb of brazilian soccer legend pele arrived at a soccer stadium in the home city of brazil. fans will pay respects inside the stadium at what will be a 24-hour public wake. the casket to be carried through

a city wide funeral procession tomorrow before a private funeral is held. >> we hear people talking about the stars. my god, that's -- they're great. they're not pele. he is singular. he is the god of football. i remember when i was a young guy. probably 1971. i went over to a friend's house in rural mississippi and he had a huge poster of pele up in 1971 in rural mississippi. this good friend of mine put it in perspective.

along with mohammed ali this was the most famous athlete in history. >> he was the original. he was transformational in a way that ali was. he not only played in but starred in three winning brazilian world cup squads in 1958, 1962 and again in 1970. just incredible. in '66 i think he was injured and couldn't play in that world cup. it's just astounding. no other player has done that. you look at video and film of him and he is -- he had

everything. he could score like rinaldo. pass like messi. he had the speed of an mbappe. he was everything and he was known and loved and respected and cheered around the world. one of the things he did is bring soccer to the united states coming to play for the new york cosmos and made a splash for the beautiful game here in this beautiful country. so a unique figure. he was mr. brazil in a lot of ways. i can just imagine what it feels like in brazil now and especially in santos in that area. where he played. after his first world cup win he

was declared a national treasure by the brazilian government which was really not just an honor but a way to keep him in brazil. keep him from being lured away by higher paying european squads but played for santos and was a national hero because of that. >> unbelievable. let's bring in analyst roger bennett. i have been seeing clips of him trying to get on elevators. there's a crush of humanity like you would see around ali or the beatles. yet pele incredibly graceful and for those that knew him just a beloved figure. >> he was the gold standard

against them all is since measured. three-time world cup winner. became football's first truly global superstar and then a global billboard. changed the face of the nation. you mentioned the beatles. changing pop music and there's a before and an after the same as pele transforming the game. in the last presidential campaign the president there made a jersey and almost post that wound is today a globally revered icon. almost more than a human being being buried but the brazilian

ideal. >> the top of the hour. a lot to get to, including looking back at exactly what went wrong on january 6. why law enforcement didn't act in a more effective way. also, more breaking news from january 6 committee regarding hope hicks. since it is the top of the hour, let's talk sports. >> eh. >> and then the news. it was the nfl and college football at the top of 7:00. this is the top of 8:00. talk about the beautiful game! what a weekend. >> indeed. the world cup is over. welcome back to our loving arms. premier league. let's start in manchester where abu dhabi defending champions in the light blue played poor boys.

deep blue goal scoring super computer scored the record shattering 21 rs league goal of the young season. woefully edmonton. still a vague pulse in that football team. in the second half, look at this. blistering the ball straight into the situation room. this is gretta taking down bullies on twitter. city stumble. and arsenal -- watching it again. this is a tiny -- this is one of the great, unexpected moments of drama. this is a bully being punished

in the face. watch it again. why watch it once when you can watch it 78 times? go to arsenal football club. owned by stan cronky. they charge into lead in the opening part of the season. 66 seconds to score. attacking the game like a waffle house employee. a young, intelligent collective. and still looking to close the gap on the top four red sox owned liverpool. two own goals from this guy. luke fast. is similarity to sideshow bob from "the simpsons." look at this finish. carl marx once said, this

tragedy and then this. still life for your team. red sox may not be so good but the liverpool football club has life. >> as long as the opponents score goals against themselves. >> something. >> john henry is a genius. >> exactly. i loved the tweet. 1-1. we win. >> we win. as we will today. god bless. >> watch out, usc. come on, the cotton bowl. >> good-bye, roger. thank you very, very much. i think. let's get to the top story. just one day before the new congress is seated kevin mccarthy still appears to be well short of the votes needed to become the next house speaker. in a new letter nine house

republicans write the current minority leader has not done enough to win their support, even after a key concession to them last week, quote despite some progress achieved kevin mccarthy's statement comes almost impossibly late to address the deficiencies of the opening of the 118th congress. the commitments with respect to every component of our entreaties and no means to measure whether promises are kept or broken. in a note to his republican colleagues last week he agreed to lower the threshold for forcing a vote to oust the leader and the group of nine lawmakers who penned the letter does not include five other house republicans who firmly voiced the opposition to the speakership bid. in total he can only afford to

lose four republican votes. and still be elected speaker. >> at least he has santos on the side. can you imagine -- >> we have a report coming up on george santos. that's an incredible story. that guy lied about his entire life. even his mother and when she passed away. >> all in for kevin mccarthy. so -- so, jonathan lemire, if there's a backup plan for the republicans holing out on kevin mccarthy i don't know what it is. i find it hard to believe that they'll go to the floor and he's not going to get the 218 votes because then there's chaos that ensues. what are the other options? scalise? stefanik? who is it? >> it's been 100 years since the house last famed to elect a speaker on the first ballot.

kevin mccarthy is scrambling. reports are that he is trying to -- we saw last night willing to give away speakership power as a deal to get the necessary votes but he seems to be losing votes as the new congress is about to dawn as opposed to gaining them. in terms of alternatives there is not a lot of chatter beyond steve scalise. he would probably take it. but there are lack of alternatives here and kevin mccarthy is banking on the likes of george santos if that is his name. >> unbelievable. >> there is a lot of drama in this incoming republican

congress to see kevin mccarthy can get over the finish line. >> before donald trump's win in the 2016 presidential election republican congresswoman elise stefanik would barely speak his name in public. >> couldn't stand him. >> very -- i remember we spoke to her. seemed bright and hopeful and optimistic. one of the most vocal critics on the right. fast forward to this year and the woman who some once a moder republican party is one of the former president's most loyal supporters. how did she get there? >> let's ask political investigative reporter for "the new york times." we met elise right after the day she was elected. right outside the house chamber. sat down and talked.

great conversation. very hopeful. not because she is a quote moderate. i used to be a right wing freak and nut. now they're calling moderate. she seemed to be from a district to represent it well. and then reading your piece it is really remarkable that she just turned on a dime. turned against all of her political allies and a lot of friends. and just decided that she was the future of a party that was no more and was going to go all in for donald trump. >> i think stefanik is part of the tradition in american politics. donald trump, too, and george santos. what happened to elise stefanik is a case study of the trump

era. the bigger story in some ways is that the party capitulated to him. he was a source of power. stefanik was an up and comer from a swing district. well liked by the old party establishment and found that she couldn't get traction on the big issues and elect more females, couldn't get traction on climate change and immigration reform. so she flipped. she realized that the source of power at that time in the party was to turn trump and took the intelligence you saw that day in the interview applied it to becoming a trump and a maga person. adopted his language on twitter. talks and tweets like him. adopted the conspiracy theories that animate the base. the big lie that jonathan has written about especially so she's putt all that talent to work to read the winds and dive

into trumpism and is it going to serve her? >> it is a great piece. we saw an image of paul ryan there. let's go further to where you started to lead us is what her future might be. if trump is -- he is wounded. we don't know if he is finished off. do we suspect that stefanik will have another metamorphosis? what's next for her? >> she placed the bet on trump. she was the first person to endorse him for re-election bid i think. she is currently the senior most person to re-endorse him. same time the former mentor is saying enough is enough. this guy's cost us a few

elections. in a weird way i think she is both tapped into the power and part of limitations around him. we saw that this majority that republicans have is so thin in part because of trump. the party is trying to win back voters it can't win because of trump so he is the source of power in the party but can he get you where you want to go in the party? >> nick, it was a great piece, by the way. >> thank you. >> on stefanik and an astounding transformation in the recent u.s. politics, the early elise stefanik to where she is now but she's got to see that trumpism looks like a dicey bet right now

if not an absolutely a bad bet. would she go so far as to try to guide trumpism in a certain direction to try to drive trump in a certain direction so in order to keep her career alive or will she just go down with the ship because she is not steering it? >> look. again, he is the source of her juice and fund raising prowess. she is smart and quite young arne has time. again, she has made the bet that trump is going to be the winner of the nomination and the future of the party and we'll see if she has the right bet. >> political reporter for "the new york times" nick confessore, always great to see you. we have been digging into new revelations from the u.s.

capitol police chief in the january 6 insurrection about the alleged government failures he said allowed the attack to happen. in a book out tomorrow reviewed by "the washington post" steven sun gives the firsthand account of the insurrection writing that top leaders from fbi, dhs and capitol police intelligence division tipped off about the attack weeks before it happened but the warnings never shared with him and details failures to respond to the violence in realtime including a conference call shortly after the rioters breached the capitol and refused to deploy national guard troops to the scene. he writes that lieutenant general piatt told him he didn't like the optics of sending uniformed guard troops to the capitol but could allow them to

replace police. sunday said he later learned that pentagon leaders rushing to send forces to protect homes. he claims that during the insurrection many troops returned to the command center and clocked out of shifts as if it's a normal day. sund who resigned the day after the riot also warns that many of the same internal failures that allowed the insurrection to take place have not been ficked today. joining us now former chief of staff at fbi and department of defense, analyst jeremy bash. good to have you on the show this morning. >> thank you so much. what is your takeaway from what we are learning from the book,

"the washington post" article and the january 6 committee? >> thank you. happy new year. the capitol police did not request the national guard. that is a major failure. opposed to the police chief who sent the letter saying we want the guard to be available to defend the city and metro stations but the two sergeants at arms and the architect of the capitol never sent a request to the pentagon. despite all of the ample intelligence, the warping, the social warning, that an armed mob would descend on washington. second, this is critical, the pentagon officials seemed to overcorrected. they worried that president trump was going to militarize the election response. michael flynn calling for

marshal law. trump talked about seizing ballot boxs. the military didn't want to get involved in an electoral dispute so they were very hesitant and so when that s.o.s. call came at 2:30 p.m. january 6 they were very careful. fashioned a careful concept of operations. with no weapons, batons and shields and face masks, by the time they mobilized them it was too late. >> you're right to pick up the point about the military being reluctant to be involved but i want your take on the theory that they had been burned by doing that. had been involved on the lafayette square.

we know that general milley and the defense secretary came to regret the presence there at the time. talk about that. were the pentagon brushed and tarnished by politics. do you think that played a role, too? >> 100%. a thing that happened in the george floyd protests the summer before is military helicopters were used to go low and slow over the crowd and buzz the crowd. that wasn't part of a concept of operations so military leaders in the aftermath of that said, look, the military cannot be involved in law enforcement activities on u.s. soil. the military through the national guard can provide support in a hurricane or civil unrest but we have to be very clear. what are they deployed for? what are the rules of engagement? how can they be employed? that led the leadership of the

pentagon to say we have to be deeply involved in any request around the election to use the military and careful here so they took the time but of course tragically on that day nobody realized that the commander in chief himself would be the person to go out there and incite the mob and tell them to fight like hell and tell an armed gang to assault members of congress and the vice president of the united states. that was in nobody's playbook and the pentagon, dhs, doj, fema, the city all caught flat footed and the capitol police left to fend for themselves. >> jeremy, just from the vantage point now of a couple of years, wasn't it actually a good thing for the nation that the point of the spear, the people encountering the rioters dealing

with them, trained police officers from the capitol police and the metropolitan police department, brave officers, many of whom injured. they suffered. what they understood went. they never should have had to go through. but wasn't the better that police officers trained in police tactics and accustomed to riot control dealt with the rioters rather than say national guard troops who perhaps didn't have that kind of training and if shooting had started, who knows what in the end, what kind of blood bath could have ensued? isn't that a possible way to look at what happened? >> gene, i think you are exactly right. if we use the national guard do

two things. make sure there's proper forces equipped for the mission. tell them what to do. you can't say to a quick response team go to the capitol and go to work. what entrance? going inside or outside the building? lethal force? what are the rules of engagement? use weapons? batons? when the military goes into action, whether on a battlefield, tell them what to do, where to go and how to operate. they follow orders. that's the strength, the discipline, the resilience of the military culture. riot police is really the best trained force. the capitol police never asked for backup. they never heeded the warnings all over social media. never listened to the intelligence professionals.

if there are lessons to be learned it is that the overlapping jurisdictions of police forces, military forces, secret service, dhs, doj, they need to have a concept of operations to defend the white house and the capitol and the federal property of the united states if this ever should happen again. >> thank you very much. eugene robinson, thank you. >> great having you guys here. jonathan lemire, breaking news from the hill talking about hope hicks, of course former donald trump aide, saying after january 6th, quote we all look like domestic terrorists now. all of us that didn't have jobs lined up will be unemployed.

i'm so mad and upset. we all look like domestic terrorists now. julia radford who was ivanka trump's chief of staff one time, yes, i have been crying for an hour. and then hope hicks said she had no idea. this made us unemployable, untouchable. god i'm so blanking -- i won't say the word -- mad to which ivanka's staffer says, i know. there isn't a chance of finding a job. according to the hill and the texts, nope. not being dramatic. we are all blanked. attacking the vp wtf is wrong with him? anyway, so -- if i'm not mistaken hope hicks went to testify without the need of a

subpoena. she showed up voluntarily. it looks like she along with a lot of other people angry by what happened. >> fed up. >> self interest there. woe is me for people that served donald trump for a long time. >> yep. >> this shows how significant that was and how trump lost some of the closest allys. she was there in 2015 before there was a campaign. one of a couple of aides at trump tower. she was there and took a brief leave of absence. most of the tenure in the white house and there until the a.j. mccarroning of january 6. now out of the trump orbit and goes to show how those close to him and including ivanka trump trying to say you have to say

something and get word to these rioters to stop. committing violence in your name. he simply wouldn't do it. he watched on tv and we know from reports enjoyed what he was seeing. >> we'll have more ahead and tell you what the wife of supreme court justice thomas has to say about the text with donald trump's former chief of staff. did george santos once have a brain tumor? >> i hope he is okay. >> reportedly claimed he did in a 2020 podcast but isn't offering details now. it's the latest in a string of claims by the incoming congressman. the vivid imagination and down right lies just ahead on "morning joe." my name is wendy, i'm 51 years old, and i'm a hospital administrator.

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we have so much to talk about. you know, new year yesterday morning we went to a new year's day service and the priest gave a beautiful homily i thought on the need to be architects of peace in our daily live,s, political discourse and everything. because the harsh path we have taken in our -- well, not so new century is often elevated revenge over reconciliation and i loved this. >> it is a good one. >> seeking revenge with someone start by digging two graves. one of them for yourself. >> yeah. >> wow. that really does strike you when you look at washington in the past 20 years because i believe

we live in two americas. one that's seen childhood poverty drop and seen the u.s. dollar stronger against other world currencies, seen the u.s. military stronger relative to the rest of the world. a lot is going on in america that is right. and yet, we deal with a political system that continues and seems to get more bitter and corrosive and unworthy of the great nation that the leaders represent. i hope that leaders in washington, d.c. follow your dad's quote. >> of course. >> bipartisanship helps to avoid extremes. causes compromises and accommodations. so let's cooperate. there's no more moral

equivalency there. most of the blame rested. but let's hope. let us hope. we can move forward in the coming year and maybe our leaders will do what americans do want them to do. want them to work together. like your dad said, cooperate with each other. >> in the final moments of the last year democracy prevailed. it survived. >> yes. >> there was a question why there's a lot to be hopeful for. >> there is. michael beschloss, you see what happened new year's eve and day in ukraine. people cheering in kyiv for those fighting for their freedom. just remarkable.

every american should be able to celebrate that loves this country and the u.s. constitution, that loves american democracy, the election deniers, they all lost. 2022, i mean, i -- you have to fight for democracy and freedom every day in whatever way you can but 2022 gave us a couple more years where at least the basics of madisonian democracy remain intact. >> absolutely totally. happy new year. let's celebrate today. you know? we have had ample reason over the last seven years to say these are dangerous for democracy. but this morning i think we can say that the election of 2022 proved as i always love to say

and never said louder than last year, no one should ever bet against american democracy. if this election went to the five or six key states, election deniers had been elected as governors, secretaries of state, state legislatures, what we would be talking about this morning is a big shadow over the election of 2024 and will democracy survive. my point and again i'm sorry to keep on modding but i subscribe to everything you say this morning. this is a moment to celebrate what happened. to meditate on the strength of democracy not only in the united states but in ukraine where people are willing to give up their lives and when you were talking about the need to work

together and the danger of hatred in the sermon you both heard on sunday reminded me of what richard nixon said in the east room of the white house. august 9, 1974. others may hate you but they don't win until you hate yourself. this he was right about and who should know more than nixon about how hatred destroys you? coming up, looking back with david ignacius. plus what voters on long island are saying about the revelations that the newly elected congressman simply made up huge parts of his resume. >> bizarre. such a bizarre story. >> we will have the latest on george santos ahead on "morning joe."

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welcome back. we have been previewing the year ahead. david ignacius, give us your thoughts on 2022 as we look ahead to 2023. >> i share a lot of the optimism that you and joe were expressing. i think 2022 is a year in which in america the party of crazy got pounded. americans decided that they wanted candidates who were closer to the traditional natural order of the politics. so i think that was a significant result. there's ways in which january 6 seems like a long time ago. we're a different country now in subtle ways and we should be grateful for that and the people

of the justice department and congressional committee who investigated january 6 so thoroughly. in the world i see a lot of positive things but i do see the values that we cherish in a struggle. in ukraine there's a brutal war. that does bear comparison to world war i taking place. nightly pounding of the cities of ukraine by a truly despotic leader. i think putin is losing and knows it and i think zelenskyy, ukrainian people are winning but there's more bloodshed i fear ahead in that war. china. startling to see the failure of xi's authoritarian policies in dealing with covid and the economy. this is a bad year for xi jinping. he's having to reverse course. i think his ability to seize

taiwan grows more complicated. doesn't bode well for freedom. when i travel in germany or france even, i find people just speak about the possibilities, the aspiration for freedom in a way they wouldn't have ten years ago. that's great. germany is on a different course. in iran there's a movement challenging the power of the mullahs. women in iran have been unbelievably courageous in 2022 and every prospect that movement will continue. but the point i guess i'd make is this is in the balance. good guys are incredibly brave but they could lose. >> admiral, that's what i think is so important looking back at 2022. we look back at a lot of the

victories for democracy in 2022. we look at the fact that democracy, began after about six to eight years not just in the united states but globally, to push back against the authoritarian creep. and i would say that creep actually became a blitz obviously as you would, too, in late february with vladimir putin but we are talking about how here in 2022 justice returned. people that beat the hell out of police officers, people who tasered police officers with american flags, abused american democracy, they got sent to jail. they're still getting september to jail. people that wanted to deny democracy, madisonian democracy defeated at the ballot box. vladimir putin thought as he's thought for many years now that

he would roll into kyiv, take over ukraine in three to six days. that has changed and i must say as remarkable as the ukrainian spirit has been they taught the world so much. i agree with david. as we look forward to 2023, a spark is reignited in europe that's been dead for a long time and that spark is about a love and a quest for democracy. the understanding that they're going to have to pay for it to get it. they have to build up the defenses. they have to take part in the fight against russia and china, against these -- against iran. these tyrants who again are trying to suppress democracy. >> let's mention one other great

figure who sailed on in this past year and it is colin powell. something he said and i would encourage everyone to google his 14 rules of life. four deal with optimism. as a force multiplier. it will look better in the morning. that spirit, that kind of optimism, cautious, clear-eyed optimism is a powerful force. if we lay that up aside what we have been talking about this morning, you lay that aside the power of democracy as an idea and as an ideal, it's imperfect. we execute it without perfection but it is the right set of ideals and the right idea for these times. so yeah. i agree with david.

we ought to be very worried about what hangs in the balance in ukraine, in china, ultimately in iran and in other parts of the world. but as michael said, i wouldn't bet against democracy, particularly when you align it with optimism and powerful leadership like we saw from colin powell and continue to see i believe internationally from the united states and from europe. final thought, just to draw a line under it, the degree to which we can pull europe into the equation on a positive side is an extraordinarily important strategic asset for the united states. this is a huge economy taken together. militarily, taken together it is the second largest military budget in the world. bigger than china's. bigger than russia's. that often surprises people. but the europeans if they pull

together in the right direction as partners with the united states there is very little we cannot accomplish together arne if you throw in japan in the pacific that network of allies, partners and friends i'm feeling praet good about where the world could go in 2023. coming up, live to idaho where four college students were murdered in november. a suspect is in custody but officials say they need help from the push. those details are straight ahead on "morning joe."

here's a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. three new york city police officers are out of the hospital and recovering after they were attacked during celebrations in times square on new year's eve. investigators say the suspect, wielding a machete, approached the officers shortly before 10:00 p.m. and swung at their

heads before he was shot in the shoulder and apprehended. police identified the suspect as trevor bickford, a 19-year-old from maine, and say federal agents interviewed him last month after a relative alerted them to his jihadist writings online. investigators found a diary with notes they say may have indicated the suspect believed he was on a suicide mission. it's unclear if he will face state or federal charges or both. he remains in custody at the hospital while being treated for the gunshot wound to his shoulder. developing news in the past 24 hours. actor jeremy renner is in critical but stable condition after an incident yesterday at his nevada home while he was plowing snow. renner was airlifted to a hospital to receive medical treatment where his spokesperson says he is receiving, quote, excellent care. renner's home is located about

25 miles outside of reno, nevada, in a region near lake tahoe that saw thousands of homes lose power during a storm on new year's eve. and the funeral for retired pope benedict xvi is scheduled to be held this thursday in st. pete ears square at the vatican. he was the first pope in nearly 600 years to resign his position rather than hold office for life. he was 95 years old. and this morning we are also remembering legendary journalist and tv host barbara walters, who died on friday at the age of 93. during her career, spanning more than five decades, walters became known for her groundbreaking interviews with celebrities and world leaders. walters was also the first woman to co-host the "today" show and anchor an evening news program. if i may say, barra walters was,

of course, a trail blazer and icon and a legend and a fierce journalist, all those things. but she was also a woman who was way ahead of her time. she not only knew her value, she knew it enough to demand to be paid as much as other male journalists in the industry, and she was audacious and ambitious enough to demand more money than anyone else in the industry. i just want to say, ambition was a word that even when i was starting out that was sort of criticized if women used it, if women expressed ambition. and barbara walters really turned that concept around for me and for many other women. by the way, she got that money. in 1976 she shattered glass ceiling after glass ceiling on the "today" show, as an anchor on a news show, and as the creator and driving force behind "the view," a show, like her

entire professional career, dedicated to promoting and uplifting women. she will be missed. her legacy will be followed. coming up, the true story of an american superspy, a one-time intelligence analyst is set to walk out of a texas prison after spending nearly 20 years handing u.s. secrets to cuba. "morning joe" is back in a moment. avoiding triggers but can't keep migraines away? qulipta® can help prevent migraines. you can't always prevent what's going on outside... that's why qulipta® helps what's going on inside. qulipta® gets right to work. in a 3-month study, qulipta® significantly reduced monthly migraine days and the majority of people reduced them by 50 to 100%. qulipta® blocks cgrp

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coast. kevin mccarthy's bid to become speaker of the house goes to a vote tomorrow, and it could end with a result that hasn't happened in 100 years. we'll go through that and look at the small minority in his own party who could derail his long-awaited goal. plus, we'll hear how voters in long island feel about george santos now that he has admitted to lying about several key details on his resume. also this hour, we'll go live to idaho for the latest on the suspect arrested in the murders of four college students. and we'll get expert analysis on the case from a retired fbi profiler. first, new this morning, text messages released by the january 6th house select committee reveal that former white house aide hope hicks messaged a fellow aide during the insurrection writing, "we all look like domestic

terrorists now." as trump supporters broke into the capitol. she sent the text to julie radford, who served as the chief of staff to ivanka trump, including this one, "in one day he ended every future opportunity that doesn't include speaking engagements at the local proud boys chapter," apparently referring to former president donald trump. radford responded, "yep." hicks went on to text, "an all of us that didn't have jobs line you would. will be perpetually unemployed." radford replied, "oh, yes. i've been crying for an hour." we're also learning that former trump chief of staff nick mulvaney told the january 6th committee the legacy of trump administration would be the riot at the capitol. he also told the committee that former president donald trump acknowledged to him that he had lost the election in arizona,

meaning trump was attempting to stay in power even with the knowledge of his defeat. on page 56 of the transcripts, mulvaney recalled a phone call regarding the status of arizona. instead of hearing about solid numbers showing trump still had a chance to win the state, he primarily got information about lawsuits and not enough evidence for claims of fraud. with mulvaney stating, "i said, so what you guys are telling me you've got nothing." >> let's bring in msnbc chief legal correspondent and anchor of "the beat" ari melber. jonathan lemire is with us for the hour as well, host of "way too early." and white house political chief. ari, a couple of revelations here, but they continue to add to the narrative that what's hurt donald trump the most

regarding this january 6th inquiry aren't liberals, aren't democrats, they're the very people often closest to him whether it's hope nix, who was there at the very beginning, whether it was white house lawyer who is defended him through two impeachment trials, whether it was former chief of staffs. it's the people closest to him that have provided the most damning testimony, isn't it. >> it certainly is, and that's because this is about evidence, not opinion, not even expertise. there are people who are experts on authoritarianism. we interview them sometimes. that's a wider view. what has been so damning and incriminating and what the doj through this process has to continue to review as criminal evidence is how many people around donald trump said he knew it, we told him, told him twice, we're way past double-checking, we're way past rhetoric, which as you know, joe, is legal, it is legal for politicians to lie

although not to the government, although he stands accused of that as well. the report dropped going into the holiday. some people were busy living their lives. you were talking to your guests about the new year. as we reset, this is not a report i don't think was meant to be read in a couple days or news cycles. this is for long term, for history. people will hear about the coverage as we're discussing it. what comes through in the report is that this was bigger than one day, that donald trump was not just a party to it or what we call a co-conspirator, he was according to the committee the lead conspirator. >> yeah. and add to that, ari, more newly released january 6th committee transcripts revealed the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, ginni thomas, expressed regret for her texts fanning conspiracies about the 2020 presidential election. the committee obtained 29 texts between thomas and former white

house chief of staff mark meadows which were first reported by "the washington post" and cbs. in the messages, thomas urged meadows to do what he could to keep former president donald trump in power despite president biden's win. in one of her messages to the meadows, he wrote, "help this great president stand firm, mark! you are the leading with him who is standing for america's constitutional governance at the precipice. the majority knows biden and the left is attempting the greatest heist of our history." >> how twisted. completely twisting, twisting reality for power. >> then there's this -- >> subverting madisonian democracy for power. >> she wrote, "biden crime family and ballot fraud co-conspirators elected officials, bureaucrats, social media, censorship mongers, fake streamedia reporters, et cetera,

are being arrested and detained for ballot fraud right now and over the coming days, and will be living in barges off gitmo to face military tribunals for sedition." >> here she's sending qanon conspiracy theories to the president's chief of staff. >> finally one of thomas' stated goals in the messages was for lawyer sidney powell. yeah. >> what a dope. >> who promoted incendiary and false claims about the election to be, quote, the lead and the face of trump's legal team. this is the wife of a supreme court justice pushing this. when interviewed about the communications, thomas told the committee, "i regret all of these texts. it was an emotional time. i was probably just emoting, as i clearly was with mark meadows somewhat." thomas also told the committee she was hopeful that state legislators could identify fraud in the 2020 election, thereby

allowing the election to be overturned in favor of trump. and she told the panel her actions regarding the 2020 election were, quote, minimal and mainstream, and that she was, quote, involved in things that were trying to get to the truth. ari, do these hold any weight in that she is the wife of a supreme court justice? and in some of these texts, she even talks about her best friend and confirms that she's alluding to her husband then. >> just hearing you reading them and joe analyzing them in real time, we shouldn't lose our capacity for concern and outrage. this is beyond out there, what she's saying. it's interesting she uses the word sedition. of course, people convicted of sedition are the very people she and that movement were in many ways spurring on. i see this as good news/bad news. bad news is everything you just read and she is so tied to the

to court and our court doesn't has no way to force, for example, her husband to rekjus himself which there is at least a strong case i would say for when this is all brought into the conflict of their household. so all of that is out there, and that's the bad news. the good news is why are we talking about this in the news? why did she back track? why is there some modicum of public accountability? because in this way the system worked, the committee worked, the subpoenas worked on most people, and then they got her under oath and her answers which for her meant walking away from this rather than into it. so i think that sometimes because there are so many problems here, voters can say oh, gosh, i guess it's all messed up. parts of it are, yet we're also witnessing in the bad news is that the system did hold in that sense. it needs to be reinforced and there needs to be consequences. the people who blew off the subpoenas, merrick garland, have

a lot of work to do to bring this home in a nonpartisan way. but people were under oath and some of them, however late and to whatever their own legacy people could work out, some looked at this in public and said, wait a minute, i'm embarrassed or worse that i was part of this. i'm not baking cakes for them, but it's something. >> i wonder about mark meadows. he's really just the center of all of this and what ends up happening with him. he gets everybody's texts and sends these conspiracies to the president. >> right now -- right now, mark meadows is a bit of a mystery. we don't know if he's cooperating with the justice department. if he's smart, if his attorneys are smart, he's cooperating with the justice department. you'll remember he sent out a ton of material to the january 6th committee, put out his book, donald trump attacked him, so then he attacked not only the

january 6th committee but as willie likes to say started attacking his own book as fake news. >> seriously. >> exactly. so, mark meadows, big question mark over mark right now, mark meadows, whether he's working with the doj because he's in legal trouble himself most likely. >> big trouble. >> jonathan lemire, as you go to ari next, a couple things about ginni thomas. let's be clear here. if you look at her testimony, she doesn't regret sending the texts. she regrets being caught. she regrets that the texts were made public. and when she's asked if she regrets that she ever sent the texts, it's an arrogance and an anger that you see in her of course attacking the media, because that's what she loves to do. you also, though, afterwards, you get this really angry, defiant statement from her through her attorney that, how

dare they call her, how dare they ask her to testify, why her views, i'm quoting ginni thomas' attorney here, were mainstream views. you have her -- you have her communicating while there's an active effort to subvert american democracy, you have her texting the white house chief of staff saying to stay strong and to fight to overturn the rightful election, fight to have the peaceful transition. and she texted the white house chief of staff and said joe biden and his family were going to be shipped to, quote, barges off gitmo to face military tribunals for sedition.

this is the supreme court justice's wife who admitted she communicated with the same supreme court justice who was the only holdout in releasing some of trump's communications. but she said the biden crime family was going to be shipped to barges off of gitmo for military tribunals for sedition. jonathan lemire, she still believes, she still believes, still believes these are mainstream views. >> how is that possible? >> i tell mika not to ka it i a -- make things bigger but those views it appears on her testimony to influence a supreme

court justice as he's making decision surrounding january 6th. >> alarm in this case is justified. these are views that are mainstream for qanon, military tribunals, gitmo. that's where she comes from. she delved into the fringes and immersed herself in them. you're right, it's clear she is upset that she got caught, frankly linked to the whole pix characters as well who seemed to be upset that their job prospects are hurt rather than the fact they participated up until the 11th hour something that led to insurrection on the u.s. capitol. ari, you mentioned a few moments ago the name merrick garland. we know there's a lot on his plate right now when it comes to the former president. let's set aside is mar-a-lago documents case for the moment since there is a sense that would be the, quote, easier of the prosecutions, of the indictments to make and

therefore potentially the prosecutions to make. let's talk about the january 6th stuff, i think a lot of people see this and say this is like a slam dunk. explain why it's actually pretty hard in order to connect trump criminally to what happened that day. >> well, you just laid it out, and this is what the doj has to consider, when you say what happened that day, i think that's the largest question, because what the committee did here in its final business meeting with the criminal referrals and the report is really draw a blueprint for how you would charge what they view, what raskin called the leaders rather than the foot soldiers of this effort. and so there's a hierarchy here, and i'll put it very simply. you have the basic stuff that doesn't involve a full insurrection. they recommend, for example, people like mr. meadows, mentioned earlier, and donald trump could be liable, could be charged by the doj for obstructing and hindering a

proceeding. that's not insurrection. that just means obstructing any government proceeding. and sometimes you see that law applied, for example, somebody goes running through the courthouse and making a mockery and show of it. they could be in contempt and further charged. that's basic. then the higher level stuff of it is tough to tie anyone to the insurrection who wasn't physically a part of it unless you can find a smoking gun. for all the evidence, we don't have a piece of paperwork, and donald trump isn't known to make these, tell the militias to storm tomorrow. we don't have that movie or comic level smoking gun. i will tell you this, having digested the whole report, and i wrote a forward for the harpercollins edition -- there are multiple editions people can get from the government as well. i think it's hard to make beyond a reasonable doubt in federal court against people like meadows and trump because we don't have that link.

and i think the other things the committee recommends, including the doj charge for obstructing or interfering in a proceeding, is a very strong case against meadows, against eastman, against donald trump. i say that legally without regard to what one thinks about them in general. so i think there's a tremendous amount of shall we call it evidentiary and factual-related pressure on the doj, on merrick garland, to say you're not going to make a case against any of the planners and plotters when we have in writing eastman saying, yeah, we have to create that doubt or that chaos or i know it would lose at the supreme court or it's illegal, but let's go forward at the least interfere with the certification on the 6th. i think there's a lot of pressure on the doj starting the year and it brings into question merrick garland's independence because if you can go after all of the foot soldiers but there's something holding you back against the lawyers, against the white-shoe law firms, against people who go in and out of government and serve at doj,

like mr. clark, who was there recently, if that's your line, then the question starts to become why. is that because you identify with them? is that because you're also a lawyer? because you think there's something different between high-level plotting and the physical attack on the officers? because i'll close with this, joe and mika, whatever you want to think about the tabloids, they ain't constitutional tabloids. they didn't know a year in advance that january 6th was the constitutionally certification process with the electoral count act as a mechanism for potential mischief. they needed eastman and others. so the doj question is what's holding you back. >> right. ari melber, thank you very much. we'll be watching "the beat" weekdays at 6:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. and ari's breakdown of the january 6th coup is available now in the harpercollins edition of "the january 6th report" at

melberbook.com. president biden appears to be kicking off the new year with a bit of bipartisanship. this wednesday he's scheduled to travel to kentucky for an event touting infrastructure investments. he'll be making a rare joint appearance with senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. meanwhile, kevin mccarthy still appears to be well short of the votes needed to become the next speaker of the house just one day before the new congress is seated. in a new letter obtained by nbc news, nienhouse republicans write the current minority leader has not enough support to -- has not done enough to win their support, even after he made a key concession to them last week. in a note to his republican colleagues last week, mccarthy agreed to lower the threshold for forcing a vote to oust the speaker, making matters more difficult for him, the group of nine lawmakers who penned the new letter does not include five other house republicans who have

firmly voiced their opposition to mccarthy's speakership bid. in total, mccarthy can only afford to lose just four republican votes and still be elected speaker. joining us now is capitol hill correspondent for nbc news and msnbc ali rafa. ali, what's it going to take? is he going to be able to get the votes? >> reporter: yeah, mika, well, we've known there have always been house republicans who have publicly opposed mccarthy and haven't been willing to insert any wiggle room on that. now we're seeing through these letters in recent days this outspoken outcry against mccarthy. there are other house gop members who are saying that he's missing the mark on these concessions or that these concessions are possibly coming too late. but what we do know for sure is this is not where mccarthy and his allies saw this speakership vote going just weeks ago when republicans won back the

majority and especially after really a decade of vying for this job. so you can imagine how much mccarthy and his team are going to be working the phones over this next 24 hours trying to lock in as much support as possible, trying to reduce the amount of doubt that is sewn into that vote tomorrow, that make of or-break speaker's vote. what we can expect to see is really a laying out of the concessions that mccarthy was laying out on this 4:00 p.m. call he had yesterday where he was supposed to really iron out the support he had. he laid out these concessions in this rules package that he would make if he is elected speaker, and the biggest of which would be this so-called motion to vacate that requires at least right now at least half of house gop members to force a vote to remove a sitting speaker. mccarthy saying if he is elected speaker he would reduce that five members to speak out to force that vote. he included other concessions

that far-right members have been pushing for this exchange for his solidify the support, iron this all out before this make-of-break moment tomorrow. there is another meeting tomorrow at 9:30 a.m. where he'll have another opportunity to talk to his caucus before this critical moment, mika. >> all right. nbc news capitol hill correspondent allie raffa, thank you very much. >> thank you so much, allie. jonathan lemire, what's the backup plan? if not kevin mccarthy, then who? and we haven't heard of any backup plan. there was some talk going back and forth this weekend that those who claim they have a backup candidate are not telling the truth. there's really nobody there. so i guess the question is, is there a backup plan for these people that are going to say no to kevin mccarthy, or are they just going to throw the house

into chaos? >> better than kevin mccarthy. >> showing the world they are actually as dumb as they say. >> yeah. as we noted last hour, there hasn't been an unsuccessful floor vote for speaker in 100 years, and that's going to be the decision tomorrow. if mccarthy goes into this without the votes, do they take it to the floor anyway? his allies have urged him to fight it out on the floor. you don't do that for fear of embarrassment that he might lose. you bring it back behind closed doors. but without the votes other names float out. we don't know what they are beyond steve scalese, although he's not expressed any public interest in the job. in those closed-door rooms, other names are thrown out there. there's lot unknown here, but chaos is all but certain to happen whether it's behind closed doors rr on the house floor. mccarthy doesn't seem that close.

>> mika, the thing, as i said, that would be really dumb if they allow this to happen, there has to be a backup plan. that's why you do these things in the caucus. >> right. >> why you do things behind closed doors. the they just blow this up and they don't have a backup plan, it's going to look extraordinarily bad for the house republicans. >> we'll see what the next 24 hours holds. still ahead on "morning joe," george santos is supposed to take office tomorrow despite admitting that he lied about practically everything and key pieces of his resume for sure. how are the people who voted for him feeling now that they know the truth? we'll hear from them and bring you the response from some gop leaders in congress. also ahead, what we're learning about the man investigators believe killed four college students in idaho nearly two months ago. plus a spy who gave u.s. secrets to cuba for years is set to be released from prison this week.

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welcome back. george santos, the politician who lied about his experience, background, and finances, will become a member of congress tomorrow when lawmakers return to capitol hill. but calls for him not to take his seat are growing louder, even from fellow republicans. congressman kevin brady of texas, who is retiring, said yesterday the embattled congressman-elect should step down. >> look, i think this is troubling in so many ways. certainly he has lied

repeatedly. at the end of the day, though, this is a decision, whether he resigns or stays, that needs to be made between he and the voters who elected him. he's certainly going to have to consider resigning. i don't know this young man. he doesn't need my advice, surely, but he can try to politically ride it out. we've seen that happen in washington, d.c. or he can take the tougher choice, which is i think own every lie that he's made, apologize to everyone and anyone for as long as it takes, but secondly, you have to change your life here. there's a real problem here. we're a country of second chances, and when people are willing to turn their life around and own up to this and do what it takes to earn respect and trust again, you know, we're willing to do that. >> nbc news has reached out to santos and all three members of house republican leadership but has not heard back. santos has admitted to, quote, embellishing his resume and has

apologized. santos faces an investigation by long island prosecutors for fabricating large parts of his personal and professional background. so how do the people who voted for him feel about these developments? "morning joe" reporters talked to his soon to be constituents. daniella, what did you find out? >> it covers parts of long island, and these voters expressed feeling duped after the news he misrepresented his background. even the conservative voter who is told me they'd vote down the party line no matter what are calling for him to step down. take a look. how long have you been a republican for? >> republican -- i think i've been conservative most of my life. >> reporter: most of your life. have you always voted republican? >> yes. >> reporter: so this past election, did you vote for

george santos? >> i think i did by mistake because i voted down the line on republican. i did my research on most of them. it's hard to know them all. >> reporter: how do you feel that he's -- >> i think this is not a republican/democrat, left-right, any kind of issue. this is strictly common sense. i would not be a conservative if i thought they were liars. >> reporter: george santos will represent your district and you. how do you feel about that? >> i hope he doesn't. i think it's very offensive that he could lie about so many things, and i hope they find out more about, you know, the money he spent for his campaign and where it's gone. seemed like he even paid his rent. >> where i live it's jewish, and middle eastern and we tend to vote for republicans, too, the american dream, low taxes. >> reporter: did you vote republican for your congressman? >> yeah. yeah, yeah. >> reporter: santos lied about going to college. >> yeah. >> reporter: lied about working for citi group, goldman sachs. >> yeah.

i didn't know that going in. i didn't know that. >> reporter: does it change your decision? >> that he lied? i would maybe -- i would not have vote for democrat. i just care about what they're going to do when they're in office, right? i didn't even know his work background. but i'm not going to vote for someone because they worked at this place. i'm going to vote for someone because they're going to do what i want them to do. i don't condone it. i think it's bad. but i don't feel really duped because i didn't know that information when i voted for him. we don't need additional people like that who lie. i think we should try to be more truthful. >> reporter: how do you feel about voting for santos and then figuring out the truth? do you at all feel duped? >> of course. who wouldn't feel duped? i think he should resign. it's a hard no. go. nope. i don't care if you're a republican, a democrat, if you're lying about such silliness as where you went to school, then -- or where you worked, unacceptable. you need to resign. >> reporter: you said you're a

republican and you would vote down the ballot no matter what. >> right. yeah. >> reporter: so you vote for santos? >> he didn't murder anybody or anything like that. you know, he fus fibbed a little bit. >> i am jewish, of the jewish faith, and i was horrified by what he said about the vote, you know, about his parents. you want people to run the government who are honest. >> reporter: do you think he should step down? >> yes, i do. i definitely -- i don't think he will, but i definitely think that he should. >> reporter: did you vote republican or democrat for your -- >> a mix, really. yeah. >> reporter: did you vote for george santos? >> unfortunately, i did. yeah. >> reporter: why unfortunately? >> well, he's a disgrace. i mean, i would say so no matter what party affiliation i had, and i can't believe none of these things were uncovered before. so i feel duped.

i feel incredibly stupid. and it's not a good feeling personally, but it's just a disgrace to the entire nation, really, you know? definitely to our state. i just never expected this. i really feel blind-sided. >> i also spoke to a number of republican and independent voer voters off camera who said if you lie to get the job, you shouldn't get the job. they also express not feeling comfortable speaking about it publicly because of the reaction from republican friends and family in the era. and for others it confirmed their mistrust of politicians as a whole. >> "morning joe" reporter daniella pierre-bravo, thank you very much for that report. i have to tell you, this guy has got some serious problems. he's lied even before running just on twitter about how his mother passed. i mean, really strange guy.

not okay. >> nonstop. >> not well. >> not okay. not well. and jonathan lemire, by the way, we actually -- >> probably not fit. >> -- i think most of the voters said they were sorry they voted for him. >> yeah. >> we did see, though, in the trump era -- >> yes. >> -- the new republican standard for whether someone qualifies for office when the gentleman i believe inside the dinner said, quote, he didn't murder anyone. >> are you kidding me? >> i guess the bigger question is where were santos' opponents? where were the democrats? one of his opponents even knew that this guy lied all the time. >> we know republicans did. >> they certainly did. they did in the rnc. but i'm saying his opponents on the ground in long island reportedly knew that a lot of this stuff was out there. i'm just wondering why they didn't push it harder.

>> yeah. there was a lot of failure to go around here. let's be clear. the democrats, the opposition research team clearly fell apart. you know, we should give credit to -- there was a small local newspaper that did uncover some of this a few weeks before the election largely ignored, and the rest of the media missed it, spread too thin. certainly republican voters, we just heard from some of them, a lot saying they have regrets, not all. some said as long as he voted for what they wanted they were okay with it even if he completely lied in office. but let's be clear, the most blame here lies with santos himself of course, and republicans in leadership who allowed this to happen, when abled it. there's been some reporting some of them knew a little bit about this ahead of time, and right now they are still silent and that's because kevin mccarthy needs george santos' vote to try to be speaker. coming up, it took seven

weeks but police say they have in custody the man responsible for stabbing to death four college students in idaho. we'll have a live report. plus an update on the new york city police officers who were attacked on new year's eve. was the suspect inspired by terrorism? "morning joe" is coming right back. college fund, we can afford this house. the house whisperer! this house says use realtor.com to find options within your budget. good luck young man. realtor.com to each their home. at booking.com, finding perfect isn't rocket science. kitchen? sorted. hot tub, why not? and of course, puppy-friendly. we don't like to say perfect, but it's pretty perfect. booking.com, booking.yeah. research shows people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. did you know that liberty mutual custo— ♪liberty mutual♪ ♪ only pay for what you need♪

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41 past the hour. authorities are finally arrested a suspect in the murder of four idaho college students. nbc news correspondent gadi schwartz joins us live from moscow, idaho, with the latest. gadi, good morning. >> reporter: good morning. the public defender for this suspect says his client won't fight extradition, so we could see him back in idaho as early as tomorrow night, possibly wednesday to face those murder charges. with the suspect finally in custody after a seven-week manhunt, the search for justice is only beginning. >> detectives arrested 28-year-old bryan christopher kohberger. >> reporter: early friday, authorities took him into custody at his parents' home in northeastern pennsylvania on suspicion of the murder of four college students in moscow,

idaho. after graduating from desales university, kohberger enrolled in a doctoral program in criminal justice at washington state university just miles from the university of idaho campus and the scene of the murders. he's being held in pennsylvania where his public defender says kohberger was shocked by the arrest. >> he believes he will be exonerated. >> reporter: the lawyer reading a statement from kohberger's family. >> we have fully cooperated with law enforcement agencies in an attempt to seek the truth and promote his presumption of innocence. >> reporter: he confirmed that kohberger's father flew to washington state to meet his son and made the cross-country road trip back to pennsylvania with him, his father saying he didn't notice anything different about his son. >> everything was ordinary, and he saw nothing unusual about it. >> reporter: police seized a white hyundai elantra at kohberger's parents' home in pennsylvania, the same model they say was seen near the crime scene around the time of the attack. austin morrison says kohberger was a teaching assistant in a criminal justice class he took at washington state.

>> he's rather quiet, very off to the side, standoffish. he sat in the class, didn't do a whole lot. >> reporter: two law enforcement sources familiar with the investigation told nbc news the detectives used genetic genealogy to track down the suspect. >> it broadens the search. instead of just looking for that one person in the database or maybe their very close relatives, we now are looking for second, third, fourth cousins and beyond. the team that did this work had a very difficult task. >> reporter: once kohberger is back in idaho, authorities say they will legally be able to unseal the probable cause statement, then that probable cause statement will likely contain a lot of the details that investigators have been keeping very close to the chest in terms of how they caught kohberger. meanwhile, there are still several mysteries that remain -- has the murder weapon been recovered, and what was the motive for these horrific crimes. back to you. >> nbc's gadi schwartz live in idaho. thank you very much. i want to bring in retired fbi

profiler mary ellen o'toole, the program director for the george mason university forensic science department. i'm curious what you think, first of all, that this suspect is a doctoral student in criminology, and i'll quote "the new york times" that this was a subject that had long to captivated mr. kohberger, who had researched the mindsets of criminals, studied under a professor in pennsylvania known for her expertise on serial killers, and for the last few months pursued a ph.d. in criminology. what do you make of it? >> well, it's fascinating that he's chosen a major that would allow him to study criminal behavior. but i do think it's important to point out that there's no cause and effect here. so he didn't study this major, criminology, he did, and that likely caused this alleged

suspect to commit these crimes. what we do know about violent offenders to begin with is they will oftentimes read about the criminal mind, read about how to commit crimes, how to do them well, how to evade law enforcement. this is certainly a far more sophisticated way of learning about criminal behavior, which i think is really fascinating. but we do have precedent for people studying criminal behavior like ted bundy, like the btk killer, and even the unabomber. >> so as a retired senior fbi profiler, what else stands out to you about this suspect in this case given that we don't know everything yet? >> yes. i think a lot more obviously is going to come about this person. but the one thing that i think is always fascinating to me and other people in law enforcement i think will say the same thing, if you're going to be apprehended right after you're accused of a crime, it's

generally because you have screwed up and you've drawn attention to yourself. and it is the offenders that can blend back into a social life where they resume their everyday normal activities, they don't draw attention to themselves, because the general public, when you hear about a crime like this, their idea of who would have committed this has to look like maybe a freddy kruger or someone equally as menacing when, in fact, when you go back and you look at violent osmders in -- offenders in the past whether ted bundy or someone else, they look like you and me. and time after time, that's the case, people look very normal and people can present in a pretty normal way but still capable of committing a horrendous crime and that even though it happens all the time, it's still difficult for the general public to really grasp that. >> it's really chilling. retired fbi profiler mary ellen

o'toole, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. authorities in new york city are investigating a new year's eve attack on several police officers that happened tortly before the ball dropped in times square. nbc news correspondent kathy park reports. >> west side. >> reporter: just two hours before the new year's eve countdown, chaos near times square after police see a man attack three officers with a machete. revelers catching the panic as it unfolded. >> they shot right in front of us, yeah. thank you. madness. >> reporter: law enforcement sources telling nbc news the suspect is 19-year-old trevor bickford of maine. officials say he struck two officers in the head with this large knife before he was shot in the shoulder by one of them and taken into custody. bickford, seen here a short time later, arriving at the hospital. >> one officer, an eight-year veteran, suffered a laceration to the held.

the second officer, who graduated the police academy on friday, was also struck in the head, resulting in a skull fracture and large laceration. >> reporter: all three officers have been released from the hospital. that rookie cop identified. >> he was in good spirits. he understood that his role saved lives of new yorkers today. >> reporter: law enforcement officials tell nbc news bickford arrived in new york city by amtrak on thursday, add heg had a backpack that included personal writings, terrorist propaganda, a pocket knife, and $200 in cash. from his hospital bed this weekend, authorities say he made a pro-jihadi statement. just weeks ago, law enforcement officials say federal l agents interviewed him in maine after finding he supported revolution support for islam. they went to his home in maine. >> that was nbc's kathy park

reporting. time now for a look at a few of the morning papers across the country, the battle creek enquirer reports on gretchen whitmer being sworn in for a second term. it marks the first time democrats have full control of the state government for the first time in 40 years. during her remarks on the state capitol yesterday, whitmer pushed a message of unity and working together. in illinois, the beacon news highlights a new survey that found that more than 50% of americans have lied about their professional experiences on a resume at least once. it also found that men tend to lie on their resumes more than women. the "post-tribune" reports that$20 million to resolve the state's lawsuit against the technology giant over allegedly deceptive location tracking practices. indiana's lawsuit alleged google uses location data to build

detailed user profiles and target ads. google did not admit to any wrongdoing as part of its deal with indiana. and "the telegram and gazette" reports top state officials in massachusetts are set to receive substantial pay raises this year. constitutional officers will likely receive more than a 20% raise, and state lawmakers will receive a 4% raise. and finally this hour, she's the most dangerous spy you've probably never heard of. anna montez was the so-called queen of cuba, a top cuba analyst for the u.s. government. but she led a double life. moonlighting as a spy for fidel castro. undetected by fellow intelligence officials and close family members, even by several who worked for the fbi. now a new book reveals just how much damage she did to america's national security. just as montez is scheduled to get out of prison later this

week. nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell has the details. >> reporter: the most damaging female spy in american history, anna montez, a top cuba analyst for the u.s. betrayed her country, secretly working for fidel castro. her story, profiled in the book "code name blue wren" -- how did she become such a security threat to the united states? >> she worked for 17 years for the defense intelligence agency. the entire time she was a recruited spy for havana. probably the greatest spy cuba has ever recruited. >> reporter: born to puerto rican parents, montez studied in spain in 1977, befriending another american student, mimi colon. what was anna montez like? >> she was fun. >> reporter: montez voiced contempt for her homeland. montez joined the justice department in 1980, obtaining a top-secret clearance. recruited by cuban intelligence, say investigators, she visited cuba in 1985. after telling mimi colon about her trip, montez abruptly ended

their friendship. >> we used to write to each other all the time. and her letters suddenly stopped. it was like, what happened? >> reporter: montez's career skyrocketed. by day she memorized a wealth of classified material. by night at home, she typed that information into her laptop, saving it on disks for her kuhn handlers, according to investigators. all this while four of her family members were working for the fbi, including her sister, lucy, assigned to a unit targeting cuban spies. but none knew about her double life. in 1996 cuban migs shot down two planes piloted by cuban exiles from miami. montez reported to work and investigators say took a call, became agitated, and left early. a colleague got suspicious and told investigator scott carmike whole questioned montez. >> i developed concerns that she was holding back. >> reporter: it took four years to connect the dots after the fbi realized there had been a

mole visiting the naval base at at guantanamo bay. >> i knew she was the mole. >> reporter: searches of her home turned up a spy nest, a radio, a laptop with messages to and from her handlers, details about a top-secret defense program, and the true identity of a u.s. spy in cuba who montez had outed. montez was arrested after 9/11. she had been an easy target for cuban recruiters, says her former roommate. >> they got to her at the right time. and that is so sad. >> wow. let's bring in the author of the book about this spy who we saw in andrea's piece. his book is entitled "code name blue wren." thanks for coming on this morning. it's just so unbelievable how long she was able to keep all of her secrets. explain more about how she got brought into this world. >> well, she was really good at what she did.

as you said, she was there for nearly 17 years as a spy. and just very competent, kept her head down, had an excellent memory. and never really risked taking documents out of the building, out of the dia. and instead, she would memorize and basically had two jobs, she had her day job at dia as an analyst, and her nighttime job would commence when she would go home, and she would upload everything she'd learned that day, the classified information, and share it on disks with cuban handlers. it was incredible an amazing that it went on for as long as it did. >> extraordinary story. congrats on the book. she's described as the greatest intelligence asset ever to work for fidel castro. give us a deeper sense, the breadth of what she was able to steal. >> well, 17 years, every day coming in, she had almost carte blanche access to classified information. so she's just scooping it all up, hoovering it up, and passing it day after day to the cubans. one of her colleagues after this

said my life's work just went up in ruins because every day we're learning new things about the cubans and their military and political capabilities, and she's turning around and passing it straight to fidel. it was amazing. in terms of what she shared and why she's thought to be one of the most damaging spies in u.s. history, it's the -- kind of the breadth of what she shared, the fact that she turned over the real names of american spies, presumably cia operatives, in havana, and then she also compromised a super-secret spy satellite that we had used, the u.s. had used in russia, china, elsewhere. she turned it over to the cubans, and it really stopped functioning. >> jim, i'm curious, this is absolutely fascinating story. >> yeah. >> i'm curious since she was working as a spy for cuba at the end of the cold war, from -- she

was turned in '83, '84, '85, through '91, did those secrets that she sent to cuba, were they contained to cuba, or was there relevant information that could also help the soviets? >> right. well, joe, as you know, cuba has a long, long history, very close association with the russians. and you know, they don't represent -- they're kind of a paper tiger in terms of the military, in terms of the threat to the u.s., of course. but their intelligence service is amazing. they were trained by the soviets. they still have a very close connection with the russians. and they -- they sell and trade information to the russians and others consistently. so that was one of the concerns. what she shared didn't just end in cuba, it often was passed to others, as well. >> in the intel communities after action report on this just colossal failure, what did they

conclude allowed her to continue to operate as a spy undetected for so long? >> well, that document is still classified, but we do know from the department of defense inspector general that it was a failure clearly, 17 years, both by the dia for allowing her in and the fbi, as well. the fbi ultimately did a nice job, a commendable job in arresting her, but they -- they waited two or three years kind of spinning their wheels early on trying to identify this spy. we knew it was an unsub, unidentified subject investigation. we knew we had a spy, we didn't know who it was or where. and there were some very brave folks at the nsa and dia that helped to develop this and brought the information to the fbi and allowed them to go in and arrest. >> the new book is entitled "code name blue wren," jim

popkin. thank you so much. that does it for us this morning. msnbc's live coverage of all of today's news continues in 90 seconds.