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tonight on "the reidout" -- >> leader mccarthy, do you have the votes for speaker tomorrow? do you have the votes for speaker locked in tomorrow? >> we'll have a good day tomorrow. >> kevin mccarthy plays let's make a deal with the most radical fringe members of the republican caucus. with his longtime quest to become speaker in serious peril. or comical peril, depending on your point of view. one vote he needs belongs to george santos, the biggest liar in washington since donald trump left town. we're getting a look at trump's taxes but where did santos get his money? >> also tonight, gen z finally arrives in congress.

congressman-elect maxwell frost joins me. >> and republicans love to call themselves pro-life, but in recent weeks, many of those same people were voting against bare minimum protections for women and children. tonight, we're calling them out. >> we begin tonight with happy new year to all. we're in 20-michael jordan and hopefully 2023 won't decide to play baseball instead of sticking to its core competency. 2022 ended with a couple somber notes. the great barbara walters passed as did a retired pope. we also learned some things. we discovered from the final report of the january 6th committee how widespread the efforts were from donald trump and his allies to overturn the 2020 presidential election. which he lost. and we learned definitively that the dumbest decision trump ever made besides trying to operate casinos or trying to force usfl games into the fall season when herschel walker played for him

or while looking directly into an ecleps was to run for president. i mean, think about it. if he had never run for and become president, thanks to the democracy crushing electoral college, most of you would think trump is a billionaire and he probably would have scored a spot on celebrity big brother or at least a cameo on one of the housewives shows. instead, during christmas, the christmas/new year week, trump's taxes were released to the public, and we found out unsurprisingly, it appears trump claimed business deductions to cover personal expenses and as his then lawyer michael cohen claims, that's exactly what trump did with the bribe money cohen paid to porn actress stormy daniels to compensate her for her brilliant acting job pretending to be attracted to donald trump. yes, trump is a cash poor multimillion air who might face indictment and who's holed up in florida alongside jiair bol

sunarro and was not re-elected and was last seen milling around with ex-pats in orlando, wondering where all the drag shows went and with roger stone. there are no history books to be seen, so their tender minds are safe. florida governor desantis who any second now will likely announce for president, is under investigation for trafficking venezuelan migrants to states where it's legal to read books and it turns out the whole operation was a cool way to funning cash to one of his aides. add least the migrants trafficked by governor white power weren't deposited on vp kamala harris' doorstep on literal christmas eve lie the victims of fellow bizarrely re-elected republican governor greg abbott of texas. meanwhile in congress, speaking of hellscapes. this week, president biden will be bidenening alongside mitch mcconnell to big up the bipartisan infrastructure bill that almost no republicans

supported but all took credit for during the election they underperformed in. in the house, for the first time in 100 years, it seems unlikely that a speaker will be named in tomorrow's first vote. that's because kevin mccarthy appears to be coming up short on the votes among his own caucus. even after conceding to his naysayers and making it easier for them to oust him if they don't like the job he does. it puts him at 50/50 on losing a game of survivor against a guy who called himself david duke without the baggage, while marjorie taylor greene is going to be in charge, while open white nationalist paul gosar gets his committee assignments back. in short, everything is fine. and joining me now to discuss what the republican mess will look like is my first panel of 2023, david jolly, former republican congressman from florida, and eugene scott, national political reporter for "the washington post." i have to go to you first, eugene, just give me your read from the reporting world on how

close or how far kevin mccarthy is and how much of his soul and/or liver and other organs is he having to sell in order to get to 218 votes. >> well, so far, it looks like there are five votes that have been vocal in terms of not going to back mccarthy tomorrow, but the number has also said to be as big as maybe 14. we don't completely know. what we do know is as of right now, he does not appear to have the votes, and that, as you can imagine, is a great concern to him because this is supposed to be settled in 24 hours, but that's not what things are looking like they'll be right now. >> so david, there's 222 republicans coming in. that's a tiny majority. just to give you guys the landscape here, john boehner, a far better politician than this guy, kevin mccarthy, he had, what, 240 votes, 247 votes. you had the next speaker after him, paul ryan, had actually 247. boehner had 242.

mccarthy is the least talented of these three politicians who are on the screen right now. he will have 222 republicans. and as eugene just mentioned, there are 14 house republicans who are either no or maybe no. and most of them are insurrectionists. gosar, dan bishop, andy harris, so several of those, most of them are insurrectionists. and then you have a bunch of also insurrectionists if you look on the screen, the ones with the stars are the insurrectionists. only a couple who are not insurrectionists who are against him. so he's facing a whole bunch of people, and david, just talk about this. as somebody who has opposed him in the past when he tried to be speaker, how humiliating is it that he's having to beg matt gaetz when he's not asking for pardons for maybe trafficking a teenage girl, he's wielding power over the maybe next speaker? >> yeah, joy, and i would start with your comparison to boehner and ryan, because boehner and ryan had something else that kevin mccarthy doesn't have.

and that is the respect of their colleagues. kevin mccarthy simply does not have the respect of his colleagues. consider this, john boehner, you treated him almost like a parent, like your father. you did not cross john boehner because you would be disciplined. paul ryan was like your brother, your sibling, your friend. you didn't cross him because you didn't want to cross him. kevin mg carthy is getting rolled by every member of the congress so they can get whatever they want. in being so openly transactional, he's weakening his hand hour by hour. part of this is based on what he's prossed marjorie taylor greene and lauren boebert and negotiating with matt gaetz and the most damning thing of this new letter of nine more members is the number of repelects. you have three incoming members who pretty much owe everything they can right now to a house republican conference and nrcc, a trump team that helped get them over the finish line, who their first act is to say you're not the guy to lead us. kevin mccarthy is in a tough spot. there is nobody else right now

with more votes than he has, but he doesn't have enough to be speaker. i have said for months he's not going to be the next speaker of the house and i think that's what we'll see tomorrow. >> just to stay with you for a moment, i have her final, she wrote her dear colleague letter, a tremendous respect. she'll be a sort of senior emeritus batch bench, but not a back benture at all. not speaker but she still has tremendous respect. republicans may not like her, but everyone respects her. she could lead even a narrow majority. when she came in, her final majority was super narrow, but you didn't cross her. people respected her. now you have kevin mccarthy, who to your point, he's at the level of indignity that he's negotiating with people like lauren boebert, who won by like four votes in colorado, and people like marjorie greene who is a loony tune. but they -- and george santos, who we don't even know if he's real. he might be an imaginary friend.

in your mind, you say he doesn't become speaker. does he give away everything and still get nothing. in that case, who do you think becomes speaker? >> he might. there's a question of does kevin mccarthy in the house of representatives a year from now. understand the positions of majority leader, majority whip, nrcc chair, all of those are taken. he understands the house very well. he would be a very good house member if he hadn't kind of exposed himself so politically over these past several years. look, pelosi and in a sense boehner ruled the house with an iron fist but a velvet glove. even though they had that trait similar, what really sank john boehner was this motion to vacate the chair, when he was there, only one member of the house could call for essentially a vote of no confidence. what kevin mccarthy has given away is now, to say five members, and i bet by tomorrow, he's down to one member. they get to hang that over his head, which suggests even if he gets to the speakership, it's a day-to-day job and who knows if

he survives two years. >> that's interesting. eugene, that's what we've got. the table that's been set. mccarthy is willing to give away everything, even his own power. he would be the weakest power probably in modern history if not history period if he got it. are there conversations because there's another option that democrats could agree to a republican speaker who is more moderate who they think could pass legislation, are those kind of talks taking place to maybe have democrats who are going to have a very big minority, to agree on a totally different speaker than one that we thought of? >> those discussions are on the table because people are looking at what could possibly happen if mccarthy does not get the support, which he's not on track to get right now. but i think some of the more interesting conversations are coming from moderate republicans who are far less willing to concede all of the things that mccarthy is willing to concede to the freedom caucus. you can remember that there was great frustration when ryan and boehner were speaker with how much control and influence some

of the more far right republicans had in the gop, and they're trying to make the republicans that are moderate that are presently in congress are trying to make sure something like that doesn't happen again. it doesn't matter if it's how many conversations mccarthy is having with marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz and lauren boebert. there are some moderate republicans not willing to engage him on the issues that matter most to far right republicans. >> what's kind of interesting, you watch what's happening on the senate side with mitch mcconnell who has been a handmaden to the devil for a long time, he did everything to destroy barack obama's presidency. he didn't take responsibility for their chance of -- he ruined roe v. wade. he does seem to pivot to the legacy mode. he probably won't serve as majority leader in the senate again, but he's now willing to pal around with the president,

with the democratic president, with joe biden. does that indicate to you that there might be house members thinking the same way, that maybe they want to legislate and not just do stuff in the republican house? >> a handful in the house. these are two very different chambers and what you're seeing from mitch mcconnell is he's distancing himself from the house, to your point. he knows the house is going to be a circus and the senate, most of them will want to be the adults in the room. i would suggest it comes down to your previous question, though. who is the next speaker, and could there be a unity ticket or a unity speaker? if it's not mccarthy, maybe it's scalise, maybe it's richard hudson of north carolina. if you get to 12, 15, 20 ballots and this is into next week, now you're looking at a candidate like tom cole of oklahoma, fred upton who has left the house now, but could come back. somebody who has to be universally respected by republicans. it's not a kinzinger or cheney. somebody universally respected by republicans who can get say 150 of the 222 republicans, and

at that point, the break glass suyareio is democrats say this is a pretty strong hand we can play if we lend 70 votes to this unified candidate. that's who mitch mcconnell wants to work with, not kevin mccarthy. >> very interesting, and eugene, i don't see much difference with steve scalise. he called himself david duke without the baggage. this is a problem. you're not a unifying guy if you're comparing yourself positively to david duke. you have elise stefanik who was willing to be whoever, she would have been with pelosi if she thought it would give her power. she is mrs. cellophane. she means nothing. so she doesn't seem like somebody who could engage. is she somebody that's being talked about, because she doesn't seem to stand for a damn thing? >> she is being discussed because of her high profile, but is she being discussed as someone who has the support of more voters in the gop than kevin mccarthy? no, not really. and steve scalise has his own issues with the freedom caucus, so that's been one of the biggest issues about this whole

situation. there's no clear number two. every issue that some lawmakers have with kevin mccarthy, they have with someone else you can name or they have other issues that have not been mentioned. that's where the gop and the house is right now. >> you know what folks call this in layman's terms? a hot smoking mess. david jolly and eugene scott, thank you very much. up next, more on kevin mccarthy who finds himself needing the vote of compulsive liar george santos. "the reidout" continues, unrolling this hot smoking mess right after this.

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we're less than a day away from the start of the 118th congress, and kevin mccarthy is miles away from his much coveted speakership. the last thing mccarthy needs right now is an unforced error. sort of like george santos, the newly elected representative from new york who fabricated pretty much all of his resume. mccarthy has refused to say anything about the newest member of the caucus. maybe he's waiting until the dust settles, which could be a while. last week, we learned he lied about his high school education, his college education, business dealings, his jewish heritage, his employees allegedly dying in the pulse shooting, and his mom allegedly dying in a 9/11 terrorist attack. she died 15 years later and there's no evidence she worked in the finance office in the

world trade center that he claims she did. he lies so much that some have wondered if george santos is his real name. "the washington post" found out it is his name, but he hates being called george. he once wanted to be called anthony duvaldel, he also claimed to develop carbon capture technology and once said he had an extensive role in gas and oil in this country. "the new york times" uncovered more lies including an alleged stint as a brazilian journalist that never happened. kevin mccarthy's vow of silence is due in large part because he needs the vote of santos. republican kevin brady says santos should consider resigning given the magnitude of his lies. technically, santos can't resign yet, but he could elect not to be sworn in or he could resign after being sworn in. honestly, from the looks of it, neerkt of those things will happen. santos seems determined to take his seat in washington where this office awaits him, and his heavily -- along with his

heavily padded resume. but just because he's on his way to congress doesn't mean he's out of the woods. santos is being investigated by the offices of the new york attorney general, the nassau county district attorney, the queens district attorney, and federal prosecutors from the eastern district of new york. all of them are investigating his numerous fabrications including his murky financial dealings and questionable campaign funding. late today, in a new twist, "the new york times" reported that brazilian prosecutors are reviving a fraud case against the member elect which stems from 2008, when he allegedly used a stolen checkbook to make purchases at a clothing store. the case went dormant because brazilian officials did not know where he was. if found guilty, he could receive up to five years in prison, plus a fine. joining me now is democratic congressman ritchie torres of new york, and susan del percio, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst. that was exhausting to go through, congressman torres.

i mean, we're starting to wonder if he's imaginary because nothing about him appears to be true. but i want to start on this brazil situation. and i don't know if you as a member of congress were briefed on the question of whether a member of congress can be extradited because now, brazil, the brazilian authorities do know where he is, and it appears he might have a legal case against him. talk about what this means just as a fellow member of congress. >> i wish i had a clear answer, but we're in uncharted territory where santos is the target of local, state, and now foreign investigations. he's a pathological liar who cannot be trusted to serve the very public he defrauded. he essentially has pretended to be a gay afro latino ukrainian belgian brazilian jewish

catholic brain cancer susurvivor whose mother died twice including on 9/11, whose employees died in the pulse shooting, whose ancestors survived the holocaust and becama millionaire overnight, and all of that would be laughable if the consequences were not so serious, if it were not for the fact he's about to become a united states congressman, about to have access to critical information affecting national security. you receive security clearance by virtue of your position and i have no confidence the likes of kevin mccarthy or elise stefanik are going to protect the public. >> that is the key, susan. this is somebody who in theory could get national security information in his hands. he can't even be trusted to number one not lie about his finances. this guy donated $700,000 to his campaign, but just like ten seconds earlier, he was being evected from his apartment. he had no money, nothing he said about his finance record, none of that is true, yet he somehow

found a way to donate all of this money to his campaign that just the question of where that came from seems to be an invitation for federal inquiry, legal inquiry. so how is this going to work? i mean, the republican party is now beholden, kevin mccarthy is beholden to that. >> yeah. it will not be the lies that end up putting george santos away, if you will. it will be the investigation into the finances. it seems pretty clear that his top four donors or his top four clients of the company were also his top campaign donors. it looks like a pass through. now, i'll tell you there's a lot of things going on in nassau county right now because those donors give a lot of money to the local gop. so they're furious. and i'm pretty sure these donors will flip on george santos pretty darn quickly. that will be one area.

then, i wonder what forms he's going to fill out, how he'll fill out the forms when he enters congress. he has a lot of paperwork to do, a lot of lying he could do on that paperwork, joy. so when it comes to mccarthy, yes, he's going to deal with him because he wants to be speaker. but i do hope at the very least he doesn't put him on any committee. >> the committees, congressman, that he said he wanted to be on, santos told new york one last month, he wants to serve on house financial services or foreign affairs based on his 14-year background in capital markets. he wants to be on very serious committees. >> i sit on financial services and i'm not clear that his fictional experience would qualify him to sit on the committee. ultimately, george santos is not only a reflection on himself. he's an indictment of what the republican party has become. fraudulence breeds fraurj lns. when you have a political party organized around the big lie, a

political party that has become a cult of personality around a fraud like donald trump, charlatans like george santos will inevitably follow. as far as i'm concerned, the fraudulence of george santos must be seen in the context of the trumpian rot at the core of the republican party. >> you have introduced legislation to make sure there isn't another one and you named it after him. >> yes, i'm calling it the santos act. stop another nontruthful office seeker act. it would require federal candidates to disclose in writing under oath under the penalty of perjury, their employment, military, and educational background so candidates who do lie to voters can be punished so voters have the ability to compare what a candidate has said under oath versus what they say on the campaign trail. >> isn't this also an indictment on republican voters?

because there doesn't seem to be a great demand for quality. whether you're talking about what happened in georgia with herschel walker or this guy, it doesn't -- it seems like republicans are willing -- voters are willing to take any "r" no matter what the quality because i'm not sure he could necessarily lose support of his constituents based on this stuff. >> i'm pretty sure that the folks out on long island and queens are pretty upset, even the republicans, with this deception. i would say one of the differences with herschel walker versus george santos is that we knew everything that was horrible about walker. so i would put that in a slightly different category. i think a lot of voters do feel duped. as a matter of fact, the nassau county gop said they will not support him in 2024. of course, they won't call for him to step down now. but republican voters, especially the suburban voters that put him in, and we should also remember, santos was never expected to win. this is just a weird fluke of

events, frankly, when you look at how the election turned out with lee zeldin running from long island and a lackluster turnout from democrats. but will it make a difference? no. we had donald trump, the core of the republican party is still behind donald trump. marjorie taylor greene is influencing the speaker's race. these are things that republican voters, the core, will not change. but hopefully more and more republicans will wake up and say, we cannot tolerate this. >> look, oz, masters, the lady in arizona. it seemed like a national problem. i want to close with you on this, congressman torres. we talked to the previous break, the previous block, speaker pelosi has written a dear colleague letter which you and others got. she said that in her belief, the house caucus, the democratic coxs is the greatest collection of intellect and integrity assembled for the american

people. i doubt anyone could write that letter to be fair about the republican caucus. kevin mccarthy wants to succeed speaker pelosi. do you at this moment based on folks you're talking to think he will become speaker? >> i'm skeptical. first, kevin mccarthy is no nancy pelosi. she's in a league of her own. >> not even close. >> a tale of two houses, like the unity of house democrats around hakeem jeffries is a sharp contrast to the dysfunction and division of the republican party. and i'm convinced that the far right is full of arsonists willing to burn down their own leadership, including kevin mccarthy. he's going to fall casualty, victim to the very far right to which he has been pandering aggressively. he's going to be poised by his own pipart. >> interesting to watch. may you live in interesting times is an insult, so it's not interesting in a good way. congressman ritchie torres and

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you were running, you had to do some work. you worked as an uber driver. because you needed to live while you were running for congress. what's it going to be like up here? this is not cheap. do you have to -- >> yeah, it's not cheap. i'm dealing with it right now, getting denied from apartments, trying to figure out where to live because i have bad credit. probably going to have to couch surf for a little bit. >> that was representative elect maxwell frost of florida, the first member of gen z from congress, struggling to find an apartment for many reasons. nothing unusual for the average 25-year-old in america. being a congressman elect is not exactly average, that situation should be something that a lot of people can relate to, with the country in the midst of an affordable housing crisis hitting young americans particularly hard. nearly one-third of gen z is still living with their parents, and among those who have been able to move out, a third are

spending about half of their monthly income on rent. but the republican party doesn't care about that. they mocked frost on a tweet of having to share an apartment with a salary of $174,000. >> he tweeted back, lol, so out of touch they don't understand how we work. i don't get my first check until february and i don't have a lot of money. when you move in, you pay first, sometimes last, and furniture. joining me is maxwell alejandro frost. it'sigate to see you again. i'm somebody who does remember what it's like to do rent, and it's changed a lot even from when i was your age. back then, you could do first and last. now, a lot of these places want first, last, an additional security deposit. it really is expensive to rent, and this is d.c. is one of the most expensive places to rent. so talk a little bit about your experience of just trying to find an apartment. >> well, thanks so much for

having me on. it's difficult. and there's millions of americans who face this on a daily basis across this country. we know it's expensive to move in somewhere. like i said in it tweet, it's not just your rent. you have first, you have last, deposit, you have to furnish it. a lot of leasing agencies and lot of these management companies are viewing the amount of money that you pay for your application fee and to run the credit check as a source of revenue. we see some of these fees going up to $200 at the maximum, so it just shows that moving in is unaffordable for so many people. you have to have so much capital on hand. this is my second place i'm looking for. i have seen a lot of republican folks clowning me on twitter, you know, saying he can't afford an apartment. this is my second apartment. i have a home in orlando. it goes to show there's a lot of work that needs to be done, especially in protecting renters and tenants. >> you live in orlando. florida is one of the most expensive plays to live. it's expensive on new york and

california level. there's a list that shows the states with the highest rent. one-bedroom rent estimates. d.c. doesn't even -- isn't even in there, it's number ten. washington state is number ten, but hawaii, florida is number six, it's really expensive. you're talking like $1,418 a month. but the other piece is, and i think a lot of americans can relate to this, you talked about credit. credit will keep somebody, even if they are making a decent salary. a congressman's salary is a pretty good salary, but credit will keep you out and sometimes the credit checks for renting are even tougher than the credit checks for buying. i know people in that situation who are your age. >> yeah, exactly. and look, when it comes down to my campaign, you know i worked uber to pay my bills. it didn't cover everything. i had to run up a lot of credit cards to be able to live while i was campaigning and that affects your credit. believe it or not, i had amazing credit before i ran for

congress. now, not so much, so i'm working through that. the other thing that's funny from the rnc research, they're acting like i get a lump sum of $174,000 on day one. that's not the way that a salary works. i don't get paid until february. and you know, the whole point of me bringing this up is it shows that, look, the entry point to the seat of power determines who gets to that seat of power. if the entry point filters out working class and poor americans wetient be surprised on why we don't have as many working class people represented in our government. >> i'm so glad you ran and won, because you're going to represent so many people who are going through the same thing, and they can relate to you because you're telling your story in an open way. i would be remiss if i had you on from florida and didn't ask you about your governor. he is now using the resources of the state, when he could be fixing the insurance crisis in that state, and the affordability crisis in that state, he's investigating a holiday drag show in my former county, in broward county.

that's what he's doing with his resources, and threatening the people who take children to a drag show with them can have the kids -- have intervention from child protective services. what in the world is going on in your state? >> that's a big question, joy. if you have a few hours -- i'll tell you this, our governor is more concerned with children going to drag shows than he is with children getting shot in their classrooms, than people getting shot on the street. it shows the hypocrisy. due to his failures to provide for working class people, he is scapegoating vulnerable communities. you can't afford your rent, it's the problem of drag queens. you can't afford this, it's the problem of lgbtq community, or immigrants or black people or poor people. i think floridians are going to see through it. part of what i see my job is obviously the work of legislating here in d.c., the work of power building at home in orlando, but also communicating every time this

governor does something that's dangerous and we have seen him do this all the time, he acts like a dictator and we have to be honest and blunt about it. we have to tell people how it's going to harm folks. he's using these resources that our state has to criminalize drag shows. but not criminalize and insuring that, you know, folks can live in their cities without the fear of gun violence. and we see right through it. >> well, thank you, and tell him about it before he bans history and information in that state. because he's on something with his supposed free state of florida. maxwell frost, come back any time. good luck finding an apartment in d.c. >> all right, and coming up next, ever wonder why so-called pro-life republicas consistently vote against bills that help pregnant women, children, and babies? yeah, so do we. more on that next. derate-to-sev. it doesn't care if you have a date, a day off, or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema

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the first time your sales reached 100k was also the first time you hit this note... ( screams in joy) save 20% with the lowest transaction fees and keep more of what you make. with a partner that always puts you first. godaddy. tools and support for every small business first. as we brace for a republican controlled house in a post-roe america, it may be a good time to take a closer look at just what the so-called pro-life party has been doing or attempting to do legislatively since winning their tiny majority in november. over the past month, gres has voted on numerous pieces of legislation. and while several passed with bipartisan support, there was a considerable amount of republican opposition to members that all had one thing in common. that is they affect either pregnant people, mothers, or young children.

and these weren't complicated or thorny issues. in fact, they all seem like pretty basic bare minimum stuff. for example, in the house, 90 republicans voted against the pregnant women in custody act, which would guarantee minimum levels of health care and nutrition for women who are pregnant and incarcerated and their newborns while preventing those who are 8 months pregnant from being placed in solitary confinement. among the politicians who voted against the bill were matt gaetz and madison cawthorn. 44 republicans voted against a bill that aimed to provide maternity services for pregnant and postpartum veterans. the party that supposedly loved the military, doesn't want to help those serving our country while pregnant. 77 voted against the early hearing detection and intervention act. a bill to help early diagnose and treatment for deaf and hard of hearing newborns because apparently they only care about the babies who are in utero.

once you're out, you're on your own, kid. there were also 28 house republican members who voted against the respect for child survivors act, a bill aimed at protecting victims of child sex abuse. those opposed include none other than laurent boebert and qanon congresswoman marjorie taylor greene, both of whom had previously made comments equating queer folks to groomers. and five republicans, all of whom were male, voted against the pump act. which gave women reasonable time to pump. which if you have ever had to do that before, you know takes a lot of time. 24 republican senators voted against the pregnant workers fairness act, which insures women receive accommodations like water bottles, the option to sit if you're sitting at a cash register, and bathroom breaks when you're pregnant. the hypocrisy is astonishing. even if these bills end up passing or becoming law, it's

important to note because in just 24 hours it's that very party that will control the house of representatives, and while all of this is happening, red states are implementing more and more bans and restrictions that are putting women's lives on the line. and we'll take a look at one of those horror stories after the break. children with cleft conditions live in darkness and shame. they're shunned, outcast, living in pain. you can reach out and change the life of a suffering child right now. a surgery that takes as little as 45 minutes and your act of love can change a child's life forever. please call or visit operationsmile.org now. thousands of children are waiting. i'd like to thank our sponsor liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.

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i'm able to do just simple tasks that a lot of people call simple, but when you're extremely heavy they're not so simple. golo is real and when you take release >> the horrific and cruel and and follow the plan, it works. backed off post roe america continues. this time, in louisiana, where abortion is banned.

as reported by npr, kaitlin joshua was between ten and 11 weeks pregnant when she started bleeding heavily, passing clots and tissue. she sought care at two different emergency rooms, but each time was sent home without treatment options. when she arrived at the second we are, her jeans were soaked with blood. she was told to go back home and wait. joshua discharged papers couldn't even state that she was having a miss carriage, which this is described as a spontaneous abortion, because that would then flag and investigation on the hospital. weeks later, joshua passed the pregnancy at home, telling npr, this experience has made me see how black women die. joining me now is irin carmon, senior correspondent for new york magazine. and irin, good to see you. probably the most surprising thing in the world is that women are nearly bleeding to death, and in some cases, actually going to bleed to death because of the end of roe. your thoughts? >> well, joy, i mean, it's been

six months since roe is overturned. and for the first few weeks that we heard horrific stories like the story of miss joshua, what we've been told that this was hospitals, and lawyers, and doctors, over interpreting the law. we were told that this was a ploy to make post roe america look bad. well, we are still hearing these chilling stories that you can only conclude that these laws are working exactly as intended. that is to say, they are creating a chilling effect where people can't get the medical care that they need. they practically need to be bleeding to death. this is a woman who repeatedly, specifically, asked for miscarriage, and was denied. even had prenatal care delayed, because people don't even want to know, and medical offices might have done miscarriage care. we've been told again that miscarriage is not affected by the abortion bans, that every week we hear someone who's going through horrific experiences in their lives that's being made worse because of this fear that medical doctors have them prosecuted, a

valid fear, i might add. >> and we know that, you know, maternal death is much higher. the rates of maternal death are much higher in this country than in most developed countries. they are far higher for black women than for non-black women. and in the states that have banned abortion, you look at the maternal mortality rates, and they are horrific. arkansas, rates per 100,000 live births. arkansas, kentucky, alabama, tennessee, louisiana, and mississippi have horrible, horrific maternal mortality rates. you also have in louisiana, the state where this took place, in miss joshua's situation, for black mothers died for every white mother, and two black babies died for everyone white baby. and this is a state where senator bill cassidy said the following about the maternal mortality rate. let's play it. >> louisiana, about a third of our population is african american. african americans have a higher incidence of maternal

mortality. so, if you correct your population for race, who are not as much of an outlier as would otherwise appear. >> louisiana is nearly one third of black. and so, what he is saying, if you don't count the black ladies, and we discount their debts, then we are fine. this is also a state where if you do manage to survive giving birth in the state of louisiana, louisiana ranks 49th, 14 nights in overall child we'll be. so, even if your child, if you managed to give birth without dying in louisiana, your child will have among the lowest well-being in america. your thoughts? >> we know that some of the underlying factors that existed before roe v. wade was overturned are now only being made worse. for example, black women not being listened to by medical professionals, which has been in the case of miss joshua. she repeatedly said, i think something is wrong, and she was disregarded. and that's meant that her ordeal was prolonged more. we also know that the underlying inequality system of the legislation you talked

about before that we're seeking to address our exacerbated by race, and by class, and by immigration status. so, all of these things combined create a perfect storm that the most vulnerable individuals are also the ones that have the most trouble getting emergency care, or getting abortion, if they are seeking abortions. coming down on their heads. and the gop essentially saying to them, you are on your own. >> well, they are also making it harder. they're making it as harder to possible to vote, i mean, it's not coincidental that the states where you are more likely to die as a result of a pregnancy, or where your unwanted pregnancy will force you to leave your state, even if you are a child, to try to get abortion care, are also the states where it's the hardest to vote. so, they make sure that women can't but punish them for making it more likely that they will die. >> i mean, listening to that bill cassidy quote again, it's that the chill down my spine, even though i've heard it right repeatedly. what does he mean when he says corrected by race? what he means, he wants to erase the black population of the state as some human.

it means that he thinks that it's not a big deal because the people who count to him are not experiencing those high rates, even though every single one of them is a constituent, and is a human being deserving of indignity. and i think that is exactly what we are seeing, it's been legislating and airy, you know, really bad situation where it was all ready incredibly hard to get maternal health care and abortion care these days. now, again, they've had months to create a situation in which it's supposedly reflecting their pro-life lu's. it has not gone so. how many more women have to present at a medical care provider, for them to say, we're not gonna keep letting this happen? >> yeah, and most of these states, will not surprise the, or the states where there was formerly slavery that led to the civil war against united states to preserve. i mean, these are a lot of the states that decided to go to war against us in order to keep it, not surprising at all. irin carmon, thank you very