>> jeffries. >> castor of florida? >> jeffries. >> castro of texas? jeffries. >> chavez-deremer? >> mccarthy. >> cherfilus-mccormick? >> jeffries. >> chu? >> jeffries. >> cicilline? >> jeffries.cikomani? >> mccarthy. >> clark of massachusetts? >> jeffries. >> clarke of new york?

>> hah keep jeffries. >> cleaver? >> jeffries. >> cline? >> kevin mccarthy. >> cloud? >> jim jordan. >> clyburn? >> jeffries. >> clyde? >> biggs. >> cohen?

>> hakeem jeffries. >> cole? >> mccarthy. >> collins? >> as we listen to the roll being called by my count, five republicans have voted against mccarthy for speaker. two voted for jim jordan, one included boebert. and two for andy biggs. garrett haake, by my count that's five and he could only lose four. on this first role call, he said he will keep this going vote after vote until they get worn down or something breaks. is that your take? >> we never call votes until they are over, but in this case, i now count six, one more since we came on the air.

clyde voting for andy biggs, one of the leaders of this rebel group. six republicans so far voting against kevin mccarthy. if the math holds through the remainder of the alphabet, as we have every reason to expect it will, with all democrats voing for hakeem jeffries, we do appear to be in a situation where we have too many -- eli crane, another new member going for andy biggs. we're in a situation where this congress will make history. we will have at least one more vote to see who the next speaker will be in the 118th congress. >> let me nail down one thing. with house votes they can votes, people can change their votes. is that the case also with this vote for speaker or is this basically it? >> i've not seen that done i'm trying to track it down. when a member changes their vote, it's because they made a technical error.

a situation here which a member would have to recant a vote in this round. it seems highly unlikely. i'm going to try to run that down in a second. >> brandon buck, you know the rules very well it would be -- i'm not sure it could be done, but it would be extraordinary for someone to stand up in the spotlight having voted for jim jordan and denied kevin mccarthy the speakership on this first vote going to change that vote at the end. >> the clerk at the end, they open the floor ask say is anybody else like to change their vote, that's usually an opportunity to come down and have a chance change it. it's going to be well beyond the margin so it's not going to make a difference. if they want to keep it open, it's possible. in the past when votes have stayed open a really long time, you have seen that when bills are trying to be passed and the leadership keep it is open. but isn't in charge. the woman presiding over this is the clerk of the house. there's no speaker. this is a relatively nonpartisan

official leading the process. she's being guided by the parliamentarian telling her how to stay within the rules. but this vote is going to end. they may ask if anybody wants to change, but it will gavel down and we will be in unprecedented territory of what happens next. >> in terms of what happens next, would the clerk call for another vote, new nominations? who gets up to speak? >> the immediate order of business will be to vote again for speaker, but they will allow the opportunity for nomination speeches again. as we heard nominating kevin mccarthy, three people normal the nated before. this could be an opportunity to nominate again or we could see multiple members stand up and start nominating other people. some of the people who have been opposing kevin mccarthy have said on the second ballot, they have a surprise person they are going to nominate and rally around on the second ballot. we'll see if that plays out. so nominating speeches could come up. they could adjourn.

they say they want to take a break and have a conference meet asking figure out what to do. but that requires a vote. that requires 219 members being willing to take a break. i don't know if they would be willing to do that. kevin mccarthy wants to keep voting. i imagine we will end this vote. there maybe more speeches and we'll go right back at it again with this same long, drawn out process. >> kevin mccarthy betting that wearing them down is the the best way to persuade them. he tried to persuade them in the caucus and it was a fractious caucus this morning. at this stage, if kevin mccarthy were to wear them down, he would be seriously weakened as a future speaker having had the humiliation of this going for the first time in 100 years to a second vote. >> i mean, the words that come to mind are humiliation, as you said, but also disastrous. this is historically just something that you have just not seen in more than 100 years in congress. and you have republicans here now really openly fighting on the house floor. we have seen so much in

washington over the last few years, but here in the party that has found itself just really at war with itself. where does that leave him as a house speaker? he's following nancy pelosi who are had issues when she was going to be house speaker this is something that has been working on thot for weeks or days, but really for years. it's a second time trying to be house speaker. to me, it really underscores that kevin mccarthy is in a dangerous situation here, a tough situation here. maybe the house gop caucus will turn around and say we were wanting to make a point. but if you're kevin mccarthy, you are sweating and worried now. he's vowed to stay here to the very bitter end, but i think it's striking that he has to even say that. if he does make concessions, what does that look like if you

have a subcommittee that's overlapping with oversight and judiciary? what does it look like if one more member can vote to depose the house speaker. >> it's very tough. >> you have been keeping track of this role call. so far, we saw jim jordan who saud he didn't want it. he preferred to be the head of judiciary. and jim banks. so where do you see this going in terms of the caucus? >> i see it going a lot longer. that's the bottom line here. i think two of the three men are almost no chance of being speaker. andy biggs is not going to be speaker. there's no path to get to 218 votes. he was the candidate when house republicans voted behind cloezed doors to see who would be their nominee. he had a low ceiling. he got low votes. jim jordan has the respect of a lot of the conference thot so

much the moderates, but the folks on the far right, who opposed mccarthy. he's made it clear he wants to chair the judiciary committee. he wants to lead investigations. he wants to be an attack dog. he's not a consensus builder or interested in policy. i don't think he wants that job. banks is an interesting option here. he's been at least publicly supportive of kevin mccarthy. but he's very ambitious. he ran one of the largest caucus inside the republican conference in the last congress. he has a the lot of allies. he's talked about running for statewide office in indiana. he's thought to be an up and comer and ro moted himself as such. just because he gets voted today doesn't mean anything. but it does mean he's a potential player depending on how long this goes. >> while we have been speaking, matt gaetz voted for andy biggs.

so we're into it's going to be another role call vote. this is going to be a long involved process. donna, the democrats are in the position of being in the minority. but a democratic caucus. >> i think that in the past when we have seen republicans in the majority, democrats have been amazingly unified in their opposition in using their minority as leverage. i think that we will see that however this vote shakes out. i look on the floor, first of all, i think the clerk will ask if anybody wants to change their votes. no one will because once you stood up publicly and said that you're opposed to the major nominee, you're not going to change your mind. but i also see that what might

emerge is either a very weakened kevin mccarthy to almost make his speakership, should he get there, very tenuous at best. they had much stronger majorities. and so i think that the name that's going to emerge here if all of this shakes out and kevin mccarthy isn't able to develop that consensus might be something like a steve scalise. i was watching him carefully during the nomination speech and his face, he had a very poker face. applauded politely, buts he's somebody who might be able to draw the consensus of the republican conference. >> and jonathan, let's talk about the role behind the scenes of donald trump. is he playing a role? obviously, he's supported in the

past kevin mccarthy. mccarthy to a certain extent did humiliate himself after jan 6th going down to mar-a-lago and exbracing donald trump after criticizing him on the 6th and on the day after. does he have the overt support? do we know anything that trump is doing behind the scenes? >> you're right to bring up that moment in mar-a-lago. first reported in my book that mccarthy not only opened the toor for trump to get back in the good graces, but even apologized to trump while he was this. speaking harshly to him and being critical of him on january 6th. for awhile, trump stayed angry. he made mccarthy work if it. he would say nice thirngs but he didn't endorse him. he's backing mccarthy. and has led to this. highway he has urged other republicans to vote for him but

it's led to this uncomfortable moment. you're seeing some lawmakers usually trump's most investigator disciples who have broken with the former president on this. who have said i believe it was gaetz who said that trump is right, but on this one we're going to go our separate ways. that's interesting tension there. it also suggests a little bit another point of evidence about how trump's grip on the republican party has weakened some. more people are willing to defy him. but certainly, this is a humiliating moment for mccarthy. the first time in 100 years that a speaker goes down to defeat like this in the open vote. but there's smil more work to be done. they are not sure what else he has to trade, but they think he can get there. he's not willing to abandon his quest any time soon. >> and we knew that kevin mccarthy could only lose four.

right now by our count, he's lost 11 votes, as this vote continueses. steve kornacki, our national political correspondent is at the big board. steve, your podcast on the rev nugs, the gingrich revolution, bob livingston, talk about precedent of this. >> it is 100 years ago is the last time we went to a ballot. back then it was a republican speaker from massachusetts. there were progressive republicans that wut held their votes. what happened back then to the extent the precedent is going to be vant is as soon as he fell short on the first ballot, he and his allies rolled right into a second ballot. they fell short in the third and fell short in the fourth. they went through four ballots on one day. they saw they were stuck. so at that point, they moved to adjourn and took three days and

nine ballots, but he granted enough concessions to the progressive republicans that on the 9th ballot he got reelected. that was in 1923. that's the last time it went past one vote. as you see there going through this alphabetically right now, as you said, when i came on, there are 11 republicans right now who have voted for somebody other than mccarthy. so we'll see when they get through the full list, you'd expect that number is going to grow right there. a number of the votes are for andy biggs, whose name was placeed in nomination. there's some others as well who received votes. but as we said, the key here just in terms of the math here for the house, it's that it's not just members casting votes. they had to cast a vote for somebody by name. i think it's starting to take a look at this list. andy biggs is in nomination. he voted for himself. matt gaetz voted for biggs. bob good voted for biggs. we haven't heard from norman or

rosen dale. these are all defections i'm marking off here. these are all defections we have seen so far. andy harris voted for lee cel don. so if the move from healthcare car thi's folks after this first vote is concluded is to move immediately into a second vote, they would obviously hope some of these republicans who voted for other names just get persuaded and vote for mccarthy. that would be their ideal situation. the other possibility, the other thing i think they would hope for is if some of these names say like an a day harris, instead of voting for somebody else by name if they just started voting present, because that does change the math. anybody voting present or abstaining changes the magic number. there are 434 members-elect who are this voting.

the vote counts if you vote for somebody by name. if you vote present, it's not considered an official vote. if you abstain, it's not considered an official vote. it's the potential second ballot emerges here. there are 212 democrats and so far they have been voting for hakeem jeffries. think of this as a second ballot. what happens if there are ten republicans on the second ballot who had voted for somebody other than mccarthy who vote present. those votes are not considered official votes. so then there's only 424 votes. and the magic number then, 50% plus 1, it would be 213. 213 would be mccarthy's magic number. in a scenario like that, he potentially would be able to afford more defections on the republican side. the problem and where it gets tricky for republicans if it starts come in here is i don't

know how well coordinated this option to mccarthy is. and if too many republicans end up voting present or abstaining on future ballots, let's say that 16 republicans abstained or voted present, now you'd have 418 total votes. the magic number would be 210. you would then be in territory where hakeem jeffries getting 212 democratic votes could end up with a majority. that's a very farfetched scenario, but it gets to when you move to a second ballot, a lot of things come into play. a lot of possibilities come into play. i think you have to say one of the variables here is how well coordinated is this opposition to mccarthy? how far are they willing to push it. the math i'm just laying out here is everybody fully aware of that? is everybody fully aware on the

republican side of what the implications are if they start switching to present on subsequent ballots. we're headed towards a second one easily right now. that hasn't happened in a century. the last time this happened, they just rolled right into the second ballot. there are all sorts of possibilities here. there could be a move to adjourn. the house has the power to change their votes. there could be a motion to say some kind of deal along those lines. there are all sorts of things that have not been discussed in a century are going to come into play as soon as they finish this roll call right now. >> steve, that sets it up wonderfulfully for brendan buck because you have been there and done this. what are the possibilities here? do you think any of these freshmen might be as unfamiliar with the rules as an incoming member could be and would not realize that they could by

voting present could be electing a democratic speaker of the house? >> i imagine at some point mccarthy and his whip team are going to get more hands on with some of these votes. the important thing to figure out here is something has to change for kevin mccarthy from the first ballot to the second ballot. now you can't just restart. there maybe some members, maybe they are hoping they just wanted to say they voted against him on the first ballot and they will be able to justify it saying i vote against him, butt the rest of the conference wasn't there and he's the overwhelming choice. i'm going to give in. there maybe a few people that vote present. these people don't seem like the type that are willing to just sit it out. they are making a pretty bold statement. this is a remarkable moment that we're witnessing right here. and i was very surprised that the dam seemed to break early. we're at a very large number and we're not even half way through. there's well into the 20s voting against him. so kevin mccarthy needs a lot of help. he's probably going to have to

make some deals. this is going to get a little free wheeling. especially if it they are voting to break in a meeting and hash it out in private. they are going to have to do this on the floi. they have to pull people into the cloak room and have private conversations. it's not well coordinated. there's not one thing they are asking for. so they are going to have to bring in groups of members. some of these are probably a surprise. maybe not spirely a surprise, but i'm sure they don't know why they are voting against him. there's a lot to sort out. i imagine after of this first vote, it wouldn't surprise me if people aren't sitting down as much and say i'm not going to sit around for another hour and a half. it starts getting a little more churn on the house floor something has to change from vote one to vote two and get more hands on. >> talking about it being disorganized and not a coherent opposition group, representative-elect from florida just voted for jim jordan. >> jordan has gotten a few.

they are all over the place. i frankly wasn't expecting that. that feels like someone they might be able to get back. each is probably going to have their own thing to go and do. he has some stuff to give away. but he's probably going to have to give away a lot to get there. >> we're going through the l's. when they get to mccarthy, you'll hear a cheer. >> this is interesting. this is a small thing, with us be i noticed healthcare car thi is staying on the floor for this vote. when john boehner was running, he stayed back in his remarks. >> mccarthy. [ applause ]

>> mccall. >> i think he wanted to show people he's willing to stick this out with them. he's on the floor when he was getting this vote. i think he knows this is going to be a long day, a long night, maybe even a long week. he's sticking with them on the floor being present, which is a bit of an unusual twist. >> he's basically daring them to vote against him to his face. >> so far, people are doing it. but he's going to have to rely on peer pressure and wearing people down. he gave the longest speech in the history of the house. i think he's getting ready for a long night. it's going to annoy some people. there's going tok some people that are frustrated. they want to get off the floor

at some point. so maybe two, three, four votes they have to break. but this is really ultimately a test ofs will. kevin mccarthy is going to say i have all of these people. what is your plan? that's when you start talking about somebody else trying to emerge. then it gets really complicated. >> and ashley parker from the "washington post" is joining us now. ashley, just because we all anticipated that this could happen should not undermine the significance of what we're seeing play out on the house floor. >> yeah, that's exactly right. what we're seeing is a number of other people have mentioned truly historic. it's also a fascinating window not to bring everything back to the former president. but of different strategies from republican speakers and republican leaders of trying to manage him. as brendon buck knows well, john boehner, paul ryan, obviously had to deal with this far right

portion of their caucus, but did not really kowtow to them. kevin mccarthy made an exact opposite decision. if you look at his past behavior ever since the rise of former president trump, he's sort of debassed himself at their feet in the interest of staying in power, trying to do what they want or thinks they want, it's not most responsible after january 6th for helping to resuscitate trump with the trip down to mar-a-lago, but it's not clear that this is a more effective or successful strategy. >> yamiche alcindor, the fact that this has played out the way

it's playing out right now on the floor, it's so remarkable. for the republicans when they should be celebrating today. >> certainly, especially for a republican party that had had this aublt to get this slim majority even as the democrats did. historically better than they should have done better than other parties had done in the past. i also think it's important to think about the fact that kevin mccarthy, when you look at him looks like a man who was just resolute. he's sitting there stone faced. he's clearly seething at his party, but also he's clearly determined to win this house speakership. it really tells you that he's someone who is saying you're going to do this to my face. i'm going to look you down. because i'm the leader of this party. by the way, 90% members of the republican party in the house want me to be house speaker. i think it's interesting because we saw images of a little girl on the house floor.

it also tellhouse we're in this moment where people have brought their family members. people have brought this situation where people wanted to be able to have their family and have a nice relaxing day. here you have them in this situation where you could see multiple ballots here. it really is a tough spot for people to be in. when you think about kevin mccarthy and all he's had to deal with in the last few years, it's a cull midgetmy nation of his career. it's possibly the most important day of kevin mccarthy's political career. it could also be the worst day of his political career. if this is the beginning of the 118th congress, if this is the beginning of how republicans are dealing with each other, imagine when they are trying to pass some sort of legislation or trying to change rules or trying to have any sort of arguments. if they can't agree on a house speaker, what in the world are they going to be able to agree

on as they are dealing with a democrat-controlled senate. they have to get it together in order to be really pushing back on some of the democratic ideals. that's when the policies that you're going to see. i think it's also important that democrats said we're united we're ready for this fugt. we're behind the man from brooklyn and they are also behind president biden as he weighs whether or not he wants to run again. there might be some issues there, but the democrat you can party is looking so much more unified. that's a deep problem for a party that has a slim majority. >> very strong points. garrett haake, they are now at 14 by our count. so 14 republicans have voted against kevin mccarthy. how are they going to agree on anything that's controversial? >> reporter: it doesn't seem likely they will do so easily. we are now up to 15. if i'm kevin mccarthy, some of what i'm concerned about is three of those votes by my count are freshmen.

including the most recent one from tennessee. these are new members. these are the folks who mccarthy and his superpac did the most to help. if his campaign and the tact that they were part of what little red trickle still a gain of house seat this is year. if those folks aren't with him, it's hard to see the way he comes up with the rest of these votes. we're watching these numbers come in. 15 by my count now, including the freshmen. also folks we hadn't seen on my watch list like mary miller, a republican from illinois. she's a member of the freedom caucus. the question now is are they going to be able to smoke out the opposition here. are they ahead of where the public reporting was about this opposition. we started thinking that there was a list of approximately 14

republicans, 5 hard nose, which i think the majority have already voted. another nine soft nosed. we're expanding upon that note significantly. scott perry, another one who was a soft no joined the group voting. so we're in territory now where we are beyond what at least the public reporting indicated would be mccarthy's challenge. he's in deeper water than anticipated a little more than an hour ago before this vote started. >> a soft no, would not want to be the fifth vote to sink mccarthy on the first, but once it's in the territory of 15, it becomes a lot easier for scott perry of pennsylvania to go against. and while you were talking, we saw nancy pelosi standing up and voting for her successor as democratic leader hakeem jeffreys and getting a loud ovation ander cheer. so also the contrast, she was sitting next to the representative from california

this is a new role for nancy pelosi. we were talking to debbie dingell and she said that she is completely committed to being in the minority and helping this new minority and the new leaders do what they need to do for the president of the united states and for the democratic agenda in the house. >> as leader, nancy pelosi has been in this position before. so i think he's going to offer an awful lot of really keen advice to the new leadership team in terms of navr gaiting this role they are playing. i do believe she will be able to exploit the fact that democrats are unified against a very fractured republican party. we saw nancy pelosi do that quite expertly with john boehner and paul ryan on crucial votes,

where they really depended on nancy pelosi being able to deliver democrats on crucial votes because theyen couldn't get the majorities from their republican conference. so i think we're going to see some of the same thing here. and there's an awful lot of good will and spirit. i talked to so many members, who are so excited about this new leadership team, that they want this to succeed. i think you're going to see in the future a really tightly knit democratic party going into the 2024 election cycle. >> we're now just at 18. david drugger, who follows closely the workings of the republican caucus, let's talk about someone who just voted for the representative from kentucky. so 18 votes so far against kevin mccarthy. they haven't finished this first

role call. >> i think it was clear heading into the vote by the time republicans finished this is where the vote count was headed. but i think an underappreciated aspect of what republicans are dealing with is that when we focus on the house freedom caucus and what they want and what would it take to get them on board, obviously, they are the ones that need to come on board for this thing to work for mccarthy. what we don't talk enough about are the majority of house republicans who the voted for mccarthy, who the to get to work whether it's committee work or governing and oversight work. they are exceedingly frustrated with the insurgent who is are holding things up. house republicans held a conference vote, a vast majority of them voted for mccarthy. warts and all, maybe, paw bust they voted for him. they may have preferred to have somebody else they could turn to. there wasn't anybody else to

turn to in that vote. they want to get to work. one of the areas in which mccarthy could run into trouble here after this vote is he tries to wheel and deal and get some of these members on board or design some crafty way of doing this, they are not all moderates. i like to refer to them as conservative prague ma hadtists. they differ on tactics and believe when you're in the majority, you do have to govern. they are not going to want the to give away too much to the freedom caucus. they don't trust them to live up to their word and deliver the votes, and two, they don't want to emasculate themselves from the power they the to wheeled. so this is really a delicate balance that kevin mccarthy has to walk as he tries to put together 218 votes. >> he's already given away the power letting them have a rule that one member can call for ousting a speaker.

but they have also made other demands that he said this morning, which is not acceptable. what were some of the other things? >> that's correct. he's given away a lot more than a majority of his conference would prefer he gave away. he gave it away, goalposts have been moved. it wasn't good enough. i think that in part saying maybe they just don't want mccarthy. and once they can be successful in moving out mccarthy, they will understand that they have to accept somebody who is at least a member of the republican establish the. what does it take to be a speaker? you have to raise money. you have to take tough votes to fund the government, raise the debt ceiling. and only that kind of individual is going to get the vast majority of the conference behind them. but i think the vast majority of the conference, they are worried once he's moved out of the way,

there are going to be new demands and a new set of of hurdles to overcome. and that may make them dig in in support of mccarthy, not because of kevin mccarthy himself, but because they are afraid of granting the insurgency of victory to hold over their heads and make governing virtually impossible. >> we just laid out some of the forces within the conference. >> ultimately, this is about kevin mccarthy. but this is about who is in charge of this conference. and the situation you have here is the vast majority of this conference has to make a decision. are they willing to fight and assert that that they are in charge, or are they going to give in first and let the house freedom caucus, are they going it let them win? this is a test ofs will. are they going to break the rest of the conference. is the majority willing to do

that? we have heard so many times the moderates are not actually moderates. they are more conservative, they are just less willing to compromise. do these people who are the more mainstream of the conference, are they willing to assert themselves? are they willing to standby their man? in the past they have made a lot of noise, but tended to back down. they are more tlog go to extreme measures. they operate based on the idea of fighting. fighting is the most important thing. it will be interesting to see whether they have the same fight in them. kevin mccarthy was trying to rile them up. he said i'm going to fight. i need you to fight. he went right to some of those people to their face and was fighting with them. which is an interesting choice, but he knew where they was headed this morning. that was more about riling up the troops for the second vote knowing i need you to stick with me. >> what about steve scalise? is he a consensus choice?

could he raise the money? >> steve scalise is on the short list of who could be next if kevin mccarthy doesn't get there. but we need to be patient about that. it's very tough to stee steve scalise emerging right away. because people said we are only going to vote for kevin mccarthy if steve scalise is being party to taking out kevin mccarthy, a lot of people will not look at that kindly. there's a lot of tension and distrust between the scalise and mccarthy camps already. so certainly, he could emerge in the end. i do think whoever -- if it's not kevin mccarthy, whoever emerges next has to come after kevin mccarthy makes a decision he can no longer do this. it seems like that could be awhile. but steve scalise is high on that list if he comes to that realization. >> could you see kevin mccarthy coming to the decision after several roll calls that it's not going to work and he has to back someone else or take himself

out? >> anything is possible. i just think it's too early to speculate. one interesting things about where we are is that in buy goner ra, there would have been replacementes floating themselves, viable replace thes. it used to be the competition for leadership was fierce and intense and you could tick off a dozen or so members that wanted it at the very at least, that were theoretically capable of doing the job. in the era we're in, it's much more pleasing to go on social media or cable news and agitate and not put yourself in a position where tough govern and compromise. so i think at least for the time being, this is all kevin mccarthy's to give away. at the appointment in which he turns to his colleagues, if he gets there, and decides to open it up to other takers, that's

when you see movement. again, if and unless this lasts into next week or beyond and members start to get very restless and start looking for alternatives themselves. >> and ashley parker, we were talking earlier about the trump factor. what role do you see him playing? has he been working the phones on behalf of mccarthy? is he weighing in? >> i think the biger role he played started years ago in helping push the republican party to this point and helping further embolden some of these freedom caucus members, some of these hard right members. he sort of did mccarthy the very small favor of not opposing him. so there is that, but again some of these members who voted already against mccarthy sort of

ultramaga members were not swayed to support mccarthy simply because trump did. >> and yamiche alcindor, when we talk about what's happening here to the republican party, you were talking about some of the things that are coming up that need to be done. they can't even form committees until the speaker vote is over. if thaw don't get this done today, there will be no swearing ins, no house committees, no legislative agenda. they are not supposed to come back until january 23rd, so there's time to do some of this, but ordinarily the committees are forming and beginning to staff up and work. they can hire up now that they are in the majority. there's automatic things that come their way. >> certainly. you think about the road ahead. it just doesn't get easier. if normal nating the house speengership is this messy, imagine what it's going to be like to fund the government. if you have a small majority of

vocal and media-savvy lawmakers able to have their voices be heard and have this much impact on a caucus, it really underscores the tough road ahead for republicans and for the country. let's remember government shutdown s, if we get there, if this becomes a running theme of the 118th congress, that impacts americans' lives. that impacts everyday people. as someone who spent so much time talking to republicans and democrats, i can tell you what they want is a functioning government. when you talk to democrats or republicans, they want a government that helps them in their struggling lives, whether you're trying to put food on the table, get better wages, whatever it is that is the thing driving your life as an american, what you're not waiting for is fugting like this to happen on the house floor. you're hoping the government functions. this looks like a government that's not functioning in a way that should be functioning. i think it's important when you think about the inen fighting, it underscores this is going to be a party that's going to have

so many issues to deal with. the bitterness that might come from this. if you're going to bring the republican party together, let's say kevin mccarthy does win the house speakership, not only is kevin mccarthy going to have some issues with how this went down, but what about the other lawmakers, part of the 90% saying this is who i have to work with and deal with on my committee. think about the fact that republicans will be looking at other republicans saying you embarrassed us in front of the country. this is not a good look for republicans. it is a good look for republicans as you see nancy pelosi this her bright pink suit smiling and saying not on my watch. n np having retired in a strong way. >> kevin mccarthy has just stood up. they are in the closing votes. they only have about eight left. he's locking around the floor right now. it's not clear how he's planning

to go. he's looking for some of his closer aids and sol of those who have been working with him a as to how to proceed to the next vote. which we expect to be it was 19d at the end of the first vote. that was a pretty significant defection. 19 republicans. in sharp contrast to all of you who is going to be seeing mitch mcconnell on the senate side, who gave a speech today as the longest serving caucus leader, he is going to be going to kentucky with joe biden in a bipartisan way on that infrastructure way celebrating the money to rebuild that bridge between ohio and kentucky. it looks as though they have completed this roll call ands it was 19 defections. what will we see next? >> that's my count as well. the last one being keith self of. that's north texas, the dallas

suburbs. rereplaced taylor who are had to resign due to an extramarital affair. a former judge there, very conservative. it shows the new congress. a lot of newer conservative members were losing some of the members who voted for donald trump's impeachment who might have been mccarthy votes like peter meyer, folks defeated in primaries or resigned not there to back up mccarthy. we're watching the work begin. mostly talking to allies, but if there's going to be a whip effort, it's going to happen on the floor right now. mccarthy needs these people to stick around and needs this vote sto start soon. the consensus on the reporting on this issue has been the longer this goes on and people get off the floor to scheme and plot and discuss alternative options, the more it works against mccarthy. there's few people in politics more aware of where the cameras

are is and what the spotlight is mccarthy knows he's being watched. you can see him with a smile on his face shaking hands with his allies as if this was part of the plan. and to some degree it was. he knew at least today he wasn't going to win on the first vote. so now that grind begins as he's going to try to wear down his opponents. i think the second rote here will be critical because it's going to show us how many of those 19 wanted to go on tv and say they voted against mccarthy. they can say they did it once. maybe they vote present. they can come out and say they voted against mccarthy. how many of those folks who wanted to do this simply to make a point ask not take this all the way to the mattresses. we'll find that out. that vote took an hour. we'll see how quickly the next one begins. nothing can officially happen as he goes off to the cloak room, nothing else can happen, they

can't recess without a vote. we'll sit here until the next vote starts or until somebody makes a motion to do something else. >> when we refer to the cloak room, share with people what the cloak room is. it's one place where reporters can go. as close to the floor as you can get and snag people and try to find out what's happening behind the scenes. >> kevin mccarthy just walked off just off the house claim better. they did close that off to reporters during ko vud. >> i think they opened back everything back up. i think i read everything was open in the house. >> the cloak room is members only, i imagine that's where a lot of of these tough conversations is going to happen. and then the speaker does have a ceremonial office not tar from the house floor. that's where speakers boehner and ryan waited while they were

having this vote when they knew the outcome. so i imagine kevin mccarthy is going to start pulling people into those meetings. so i imagine the vote is over now and they are tallying. they are actually four members who have been officially tallying the vote. they are going to make sure they are all on the same page having the same number of votes each. then the clerk will read the final vote. and that's when we're now into the somewhat uncertainer is toir. what is the house floor procedure at this point. my understanding is the most likely thing is the clerk will then recognize the person who nominated kevin mccarthy and that quest failed. potentially, they could ask the clerk to recognize somebody else. it's likely the clerk will recognize one of the republicans who asked what they want to do next. that could be where they make another nominating speech. that could be where they make a motion to adjourn. i imagine kevin mccarthy is largely in control of the first person who gets called on is

going to make a motion to do. kevin mccarthy may say he wants to take a break. i don't think that's likely. i think the most likely thing is you're going to see some nominating speeches again. they will roll back into another one of these votes. i don't know how much longer this vote is going to take. it needs to be done by voice every time. the electronic is yes, no, or present. they have to do something by voice. and i expect, as we're already seeing, members are not going to want to sit there all day long. they may not be there when they their name is called so this could be a longer process the second time you go through as they have to call people multiple times to get their ballot. as you can see, they are counting the official tally. then they will read it and that's when we'll figure out where we go from here. what do republicans want to do? the options are pretty limited. >> and ali vitali is with us as

well. you covered the house and you have been filing all of this. our colleague jake sherman of punch bowl is saying that jim jordan is whipping on the floor. he got six votes. he's whipping to try to get more votes. and that kevin mccarthy wants to go right back into the second round. what do you expect to happen next? >> reporter: that would make a lot of sense. as so many people on this panel have said, the more time that elapses between these votes, the more that could work against kevin mccarthy. this is a group of people who have always been aware that this was going to be a slog. and they knew they were going to lose on this first ballot. as i have been talking to my sources, lawmakers, aids, freedom not, everyone is aware that the first ballot was just sort of the baseline. this is how we thought it was going to go, but really the question is how much moves as you look into the second ballot, potentially the third ballot. i think the thing that's

important here is i asked kevin mccarthy this morning, how many ballots are you willing to go here? he's willing to break the record. he's saying he's not backing down. then there are those members who say they're never going to vote for mccarthy. if those numbers stay the same and everyone remains dug in, the open question is how you ultimately land this plane. i think i've seen more shrugs from lawmakers today than i have in a long time and i'm getting some very colorful text messages from lawmakers as they prepare to go to the floor for this press because they knew they were in for a long day. i think the important thing, and we've said this at various points during this process, is it's hard to beat mccarthy with no one. and right now, there is no con consensus candidate. the name that's floated is steve scalise. i asked if you fail, would you back him?

he just laughed me off, but brendan has talked about that dynamic, too, and i think that's something to watch as you get deeper into these ballots. >> senator patty murray from washington state has been elected senator pro tem. so this puts her right behind the vice president to take over and preside when the president is president of the senate is not there, but also in succession to the presidency. it is an important position. a position that all of the power, security and the like and something that has been vacated by pat leahy's retirement. steve kornacki, as we wind up this between the two votes, we understand it's likely mccarthy's going to try to push ahead. talk about how many of these votes that can happen. think the record was 133. >> that's right.

we are now, the answer to this question is for the moment, no, we are now in territory we haven't been in in 10 years. these are 14 times before now. this is now the 15th time that a vote for house speaker has not been settled on the first ballot and will now go to a second. yes, the record was set in 1855. nathaniel prentice banks of massachusetts was elected. so when mccarthy says he's willing to go for a record number of votes, that would be the record number of votes, 133. the last time this happened at all, the last time we went to a second ballot, you've got to go back right here. 100 years ago. 1923. frederic gillette, massachusetts. it took nine ballots. to the extent that this is a precedent 100 years ago what happened, what you're talking about happening now is what happened then. gillette was a republican.

the rebels, the renegades in his party were from the left. they were progressive republicans. they withheld their votes from him on that first ballot. allies immediately moved to a second ballot. didn't get it on the second ballot. they went to a third. didn't get it. went to a fourth, didn't get it. took them until late in the day and at that point, they made a motion to adjourn. they tried again the next day. failed a new more times. they took three days and nine ballots, but the last time we were in this territory, gillette did end up winning. he granted enough concessions to win. so the strategy then was what you're talking about now. don't adjourn, this is what mccarthy people are talking about. don't adjourn. try to keep this going. try to wear down these republicans. we did not vote for him on the first ballot, but looking at the map, we did see all 212 democrats vote for jeffries. no renegades vote for someone

else. all 212 were there and voted. that happening again here. the number of defections, this could be another 218 magic number on this second ballot for mccarthy. just looking at who defected, you know, the key thing that jumps out at me, the republicans who voted for andy biggs because biggs was the other person to put his name in nomination for speaker. he opposed mccarthy when the republican conference had a vote on who it was going to nominate for speaker. he opposed them then, got a couple of dozen votes and had his name put in combination before this vote on the floor today and there were ten republicans who actually voted for biggs. the rest of the defections for mccarthy was sort of a mishmash. some voted for jim jordan. one for lee zeldin, who's not even in the house anymore, but the ten willing to vote for biggs, who has been sort of made himself a voice in the face of

hard line opposition to mccarthy, does that indicate an intransigence on their part? it might be more well established with the other nine. if he continues to have ten defections, mccarthy just can't get the votes. he's going to have to get biggs' voters to his side. >> and as we wrap this up, steve kornacki, such valuable information. brendan buck, you know the history. this could go for days. >> it could and steve's right. those ten who voted for biggs, that's the core of his opposition. jim jordan got six. if he can work the floor, say i appreciate you voting for me, next time vote for mccarthy, shows movement in his direction, that could be a good sign. yamiche in five seconds, we might be here tomorrow doing the same thing, but it's a fascinating history. >> it's fascinating. a bit embarrassing for the republicans and it's historic to cover. >> and our thanks to all of you

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