good morning. 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm hallie jackson. we are gearing up for what will or will not go down just two hours from now when the house gets back together to try to figure out who will be the next speaker. here's where things stand this morning. the math has not changed for kevin mccarthy. meaning right now, he still has

no path to becoming speaker of the house because a bunch of conservative members of the republican conference have dug in against him. what has changed this morning? why should today be any different after the three failed votes yesterday? a couple things mccarthy is doing like send his allies fanning out across the conference, trying to get some members voting present instead of no. we'll talk about that in a second. keep in mind, the numbers here. mccarthy can only atord four defectors to become speaker. if everybody votes for a earn. he started with 19 tuesday. he finished off with 20. steve kornacki is going to join us to break down the math and tell us what to expect. another thing that's new today, former president trump getting off the fence to push fellow republicans to, i'm quoting here, vote for kevin. close the deal. how much will that matter?

we'll get into it because right now it is parls in the building behind me. nobody in charge. no end in sight. no work getting done. and no clue how this actually resolves. we have special coverage for the next two hours here on msnbc. with us to start our coverage is capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. jake sherman is with us, an msnbc political contributor. and brendan buck, former adviser to speakers boehner and ryan. so ali, let me start with you. the question at hand. we saw what went down over the course of the last 18 hours. what's new this morning that's going to change the game? >> reporter: that is the open question here. everyone i have talked to as members have started coming back into the building, prepared for what could be another very long day because these talks are still ongoing.

and it's not like these talks have just started. these are people who have been negotiating with kevin mccarthy on behalf of kevin mccarthy, over the course of the last several weeks. i asked one of his top allies involved with those negotiations last night what's different about talking now as opposed to over the course of the last few weeks. this person said it's a matter of time. that's really what it's probably going to take here on capitol hill. these waiting hours before they get back on the floor around noon. it's a question of if they can can shake anybody loose. you mentioned at the beginning of the show some of our new reporting, which is the shift in mind set that they are not trying to get all 20 of the no votes to become yeses. especially when some of these people voting no are doing so based on something kevin mccarthy can't change, which is being kevin mccarthy. but for those that they can change the miepds of, they are trying to flip ten people to yes and get the others to maybe vote present. that changes the threshold that they need to win, and that's a more gettable number for them.

>> when you look the at the concessionings, how healthcare car thi could get these people to change their minds. what leverage does he have at this point that he didn't have a week or two weeks ago? >> those are two distinct questions. he could do anything he wants. he's the speaker. the speaker has enormous power in situation like this. he can't do much to change some of these people's minds because some of these people just hate him. many people say it's not personal, it is personal. i have been observing these members of congress for a decade. so i know they dislike him and don't want him to be speaker and there's nothing -- when someone wants a scalp, there's nothing you can do to change their mind. so the question becomes can he cut a deal with enough of these people to as ali said, they could vote present that's a way to not vote yes and not vote no and that lowers the threshold. that's the number one where he

can wow to this reality and drop out. he says heath not going to do it at this point because he's been waiting for a long time to be the speaker of the house. this is the last opportunity he will have to do so. but i'm looking at the screen. these are not people who like kevin. and who want him to be speaker. so there's no deal that they are going to sign on to that the rest of the conference can sport. >> let me pull up a graphic we have made in addition to that one, which is ali vitali and her team is reporting on capitol hill. the people who are fanning out on behalf of kevin mccarthy including people like congressman mchenry, et cetera. you ask punch bowl news are also reporting that the allies around mccarthy are broadening. more people now are getting involved with this push to try to convince others to change their votes because as you and

your team point out, there's a lot of scar tissue built up between kevin mccarthy and some of these other members. how does that make a difference here? >> it makes a difference because it's nice to have another voice that's not mccarthy talking to these people. the people who he has tapped, patrick mchenry chief among them, have very deep experience in doing things like that. he was the chief deputy whip under steve scalise in the drama between him and kevin mccarthy that's dominated so much of the last decade of house republican politics. at times, scalise and mccarthy rivals. so what they are trying to do is trying to find out if a deal is possible. and then if they find out a deal is possible, they could then try to sell it to the broader conference, which is sick of giving in to the 10% of republicans that the

conservatives are who are opposing mccarthy. what's getting lost is that 90s% of republicans are for mccarthy. 10% are not. but the game is not 90%. the game is 218. and mccarthy knows that. he needs to get 218. and he is very far from that. let's just underline that. he's extraordinary far from that right now. and i i don't know what's going to change. and by the way a as we reported, i'm not sure there's going to be a speaker vote today. they might try to enjoy -- like at all. i would be surprised if there was a speaker vote today. i think they might adjourn until this afternoon or tomorrow morning while thigh they try to figure out if a deal is possible. mccarthy cannot afford another bad vote on the floor. period. he needs to show progress. if he can't show progress, the leash is going to get shorter and shorter. >> jake sherman, thank you. i know you have to run to do all

of the magic things you do on capitol hill. let me go to ashley parker here there's a couple pieces to this. we're just reporting our colleague vaughn hillyard spoke with tread upton, the former congressman, who is saying i'm not going to rule out being speaker of the house myself which it feels like a highly unlikely scenario to happen. but i wonder if that doesn't speak to the mess, frankly, that the republican conference finds itself in now. they can't swear anybody in. there is no house of representatives to speak of. knob is a member of congress. >> it was always in gonk congress the fact that the speaker does not have to be a member of congress. and as you point out, there's

currently no members. but thus we're far from that bipartisan consensus choice of someone like fred upton. what it does underscore is there's no good republican equivalent for democrats in disarray, but that's what we're seeing with the republican party and the tension here is that kevin mccarthy is not particularly id lolk call. he's guided by the pursuit of winning. and this small group of hardline republicans who are imposing him, their ideology is to burn it all down. so we talk about mccarthy's people say there's not a clear alternative. they find that to boost their chances, but if you look at these freedom caucus members,

the point is not necessarily to find an alternative. the point is to humiliate mccarthy. the point is to bring him down. ask those two things are in conflict. you can't negotiate those two polls the way you can when people have slightly different views on spending or tax brackets or the size of government. >> the congressional reporter from the "washington post" is joining us now. we talk about what is going to be different, what is going to potentially change the game today as we look into the house coming back into session at noon a couple hours from now. one of the things that's different this morning is as we referenced at top of the show, former president trump getting on the phone. we know that he spoke with kevin mccarthy last night. he has made calls to other lawmakers. we don't have names, but he's been on the phone. and publicly saying basically, listen, everybody get behind kevin mccarthy. you have to do this. you have to close the deal. how much is that going to make a difference? >> it really is going to depend. because there has been reporting even before this day that trump had actually called some of

those five detractors vote against mccarthy consistently yesterday. so it remains unclear if his own influence may even help change the math. right now, at least what i have been hearing from leadership sources, they are still looking at going to the floor. jake just said that maybe they don't. they end up not voting today. but right now, it sounds like byron donald is someone who is willing to switch back. but that's just peeling off one of those 20. you're back to that 19. and mccarthy did suggest last night when talking to reporters that there is a way potentially to peel off 11. that doesn't get you to the 218, so there have been some conversations happening even up to right now and through last night about how can can you lower that 218 threshold. you would need people to no. it's very complicated math, but it's possible.

i want to go back to the question about fred upton. many moderates in the days leading up to yesterday's vote who have been in conversations with scott perry, two of the holdouts, they have been telling them, listen, this is the reality right now. fred upton could be that consensus candidate. maybe democrats could get there to support someone like him. but if you do have a consensus candidate, then the freedom caucus is not going to get anything they want. there will be a new rules package. at the end, they will lose way more if they choose that route and oust mccarthy than just voting for him at the end of date. that's the message they hope will resident i guess nat. >> and yet matt gaetz threatened privately they would let hakeem jeffries be speaker. that's how much they don't want him to be speaker. as many of them have said this morning, they believe that power is too centralized in the

speakership. they think they saw that happen under nancy pelosi when she was in charge. they don't want that to happen on the republican side, which is the question of then if mccarthy does -- take the point that ashley is making. there's only so much that mccarthy can concede to get some of the members on word. some of them will never come on bard because this is about the tlex. this is about the no mccarthy vote. there are some things he could do. if he does that them, does it water down the position that it ends up being far less powerful? i'm wondering as i know you have been through some of these races before what you're hearing from folkhouse talked to on the hill about how this is going to go today? >> i'm looking for a bucket to throw as much cold water on the idea that there's going to be a fred upton or anybody, republicans or democrats coming together. i don't know why we're to be

able to have a bipartisan coalition as fractured as we are. you hit on the main problem here. some of these people don't want to deal. some of these people just want to take out kevin mccarthy. and at this point, it comes down to momentum. i understand why they don't want to have a vote because if you don't show any progress, you don't show momentum. some of his allies are saying like finding a democratic coalition or finding somebody who is not a member, just shows weakness. it shows his people are already thinking about what's next. what kevin mccarthy while he's trying to cut deals, he needs to be able to show that all the others are sticking by him. he's saying he's going to stick it out for all the votes. he needs to be able to demonstrate his allies were ready to stick it put opt it's an empty threat. if i'm a tropical storm caucus member and you're telling me fred upton is is a real threat, i'm going to laugh in your tas.

face. so your threats have to be plausible. more to the point, if they need to project strength. the tweet from donald trump this morning is helpful. probably not going to bring anybody along though. that was more about stopping anybody else from running the other way and showing weakness going into the day. >> brendan buck, i know you're joining us later on in this hour. great to see the rest of you. our team is fanned out. our hill team is all over every corner of the capitol. talking to folks. we'll bring you any new updates. we also will be speaking with a couple members including brian fitzpatrick, one of allies on screen negotiabilitying with the freedom caucus. we have a the democrat you can member of congress coming up. but first, our own congressional leader f you will, steve kornacki is going to join us to break down the math for what it

would take for mccarthy to win. you're watching a special edition of msnbc reports. we'll be back in a minute. repos we'll be back in a minute.

we have just heard from president biden as he left the white house heading to kentucky for a rare joint appearance with mitch mcconnell. want to olympic in. he stopped to talk to reporters.

i think our administration has begun to move the economy in the @ direction where we're investing in america now. we're the leading economy in the world. how can you be the leading economy in the world. >> how worried would you be if the stalemate in the house goes on after today about the ability of congress and you to govern? >> not me, congress to govern.

[ inaudible ] >> you have been listening to president biden taking questions from reporters on the white house south lance. if that chopper noise was driving you insane, you're not alone. very tough to hear the president there. he took a couple questions on this trip to kentucky that he is heading out on appearing with mitch mcconnell, the senate republican minority leader. he took a question on the speaker battle. it sounded like he said something along the lines of not his problem. fact check. not at the moment. we are going to rerack that tape. we'll get some better audio and tell you contactually what the president said. but you heard it there. his focus is on the economy. it's on touting the infrastructure progress that he made while there were democrats in control of the house of representatives. obviously, as of 24 hours ago, that has changed as the new

congress has come in. not sworn in in the house, not yet because of the speaker drama. but at least in the senate, democrats with that slight majority. we'll get back to that in a little later on this hour. we want to talk about something else here. former president trump, president biden's predecessor, is releasing his strongest endorsement for house speaker after initially supporting mccarthy, then seeming to back off a bit. now coming out posting a statement on social media saying it's now time for all of our great republican house members to vote for kevin, close the deal, take the victory. vaughn hillyard is with us. mark caputo is with us. it's good to have you with us. you cover donald trump for us here at nbc news. you have this interview with fred upton that's making a lot of news, where the former congressman said i'm not ruling out maybe being speaker it they want me to. we saw some cold water thrown on that in the last couple minutes from some of our friends of the show here, who knows a thing about speaker fights does fred

upton truly think it's realistic that people would wac him and he could be this surprised consensus candidate? >> fred upton is backing mccarthy. he still believes and wants kevin mccarthy to be the speaker. but his prediction at the same time is that this process is going to play out for days and it is compelling and notable the fact that this man who served for 34 years widely respected, not only in the republican party but in the democratic party, is not ruling out accepting the speakership is notable. we don't know where this is going to go. if matt gaetz or boebert continue to play this hardlined approach, that begs the question of democrats. is there a republican who they would try to get behind. and i would talk to fred upton. he said that he believes that the american public spoke in these midterm elections and they want members of congress, who have bipartisan interests and are able to get things tone.

he, just like you and me, were watching yesterday unfold. he said republicans were put into power. yet everybody is watching them not get anything done. they can't even pick their own leader. >> mark, let me turn to you on the trump of it all. you have been in touch with sources in trump world. talk us through the thinking of who he maybe wanting to talk to here on capitol hill. >> he's talking to everyone. everybody called donald trump and he called everyone back. that's what donald trump likes. he's at the center of the action. what's interesting is what he told garrett haake. we'll see what happens. it looks like he was backing off. is and almost everyone in trump world who knows anything about trump know this is only so long he wants to stick by kevin mccarthy. kevin mccarthy is not maga. so eventually, they predicted he was going to back off. then there was a call last night between him and kevin mccarthy. and mccarthy is like, hey man, i

looked kind of bad there. can you help me out. then trump decided to back him this morning. but the reality is this. is donald trump and the maga movement don't really see eye to eye with mccarthy-style politics. they are aligned with jim jordan, the ohio rep slated to lead the judiciary committee. he said i don't want to be speaker, but the anti-mccarthy people are like we want you to be speaker. and certainly something to watch. at what point does he back off and say you don't have the votes. >> thank you both. appreciate it. >> i had a weird noise. >> i'll just say i think mark and i and you have been around enough campaign events over the years that it was going back to may in wyoming when it was the likes of kevin mccarthy played on the video screen at trump's

rally. and jim jordan, a video of him played and the reception among those very much loyalist activists. there were boos for kevin mccarthy. and for jim, it was applause. it you're talking about a grass roots level here, that was may, but all of this is playing out in realtime. >> thank you both. appreciate it. let's talk math let's talk what would need to happen. let's bring in steve kornacki, who is posted up at the big board for us. so here's the question. we though how the numbers were. you have the third ballot vote totals. how many people would need to vote present for mccarthy to actually get over the finish line here assuming he can flip a few people? what's the threshold what's the number range he would need? >> let's take you through. the rule here is the magic number is not fixed. it's a majority of all of those who are present and who cast votes for somebody by name if

you're watching it yesterday, they called out the member. they can call out any name they want. if the member were to vote present or were to say i abstain, it doesn't count towards the total. so that's sort of the mccarthy folks think there might be a back-door opening to look at some of these folks and say you don't have to vote for mccarthy. you can potentially vote present. so let's do the math here. this is the democrats in all three ballots yesterday. all voted for jeffries. mccarthy ended up with 202 on the third ballot. jim jordan with 20. that's 434 votes. that's the total number of members-elect. so everybody was voting for somebody by name. 50% plus 1 of 434 is 218. so as long as 434 are voting by

name, the number is 218. you see jeffries with democrats is going to be short of that. mccarthy with 20 defections is well short of that. so here's what mccarthy, he started to use a number last night. the numbers was 11. look at it this way. he needs to get past jeffries in the vote. so it he adds 11, he would be at 213. jeffries would stay at 212. that means he has to get 11 of the 20 who voted for jordan, he would need to get the 11 from there. that would leave 9 others. that's where this voting present, abstaining becomes key. if he got 11, that's a huge if, but if he got 11 and goot the lead, the other nine continue to vote for jordan, he would still be short of the majority. he needs those nine to all vote present or to all abstain. it you take that nine, they don't count as vote it is they

are present, then suddenly it's thot 434 total votes it's 425 votes. and 50% plus 1 of that is 213. that would be the exact number that mccarthy has. so theoretically, it's get 11 of the folks who voted for jordan on the third ballot to vote for mccarthy. that seems like a mount everest task, and then to get the other nine to say i'm still antimccarthy, but i'm willing to vote present knowing that that is probably going to make kevin mccarthy speaker. >> to be clear, though, when you look at these numbers on screen, this means that that nine would include matt gaetz and all these people who have said i am a never-kevin. that nine includes everybody. there's no room for anybody to vote anything other than mccarthy or present in this hypothetical scenario.

>> if mccarthy gets to 213 and there are still 9 left here, we're taking 434 knocking it down to 425, which sets a threshold of 213. let's say eight voted present and one continued to vote for jim jordan. so there was still one vote for jim jor dab, now talking about 426 official votes. 212 plus 213 plus that 1 vote for jim jordan. and the magic number with 426 is 50% plus 1. so it's not 213. the magic number is 214 and mccarthy would again be short. so this is really threading a needling. and like you're saying, psychologically, i'm showing you the math here. when you read off the names, this essentially requires all 20 of those republicans who voted against mccarthy to assent to his speakership and organize

which ones will formally vote firefighter him, which ones will only vote present, but they would all do it knowing that the effect is to make mccarthy speaker. >> and some of them have said they don't want that to happen. steve kornacki, thank you. we'll be checking in with you throughout the hour. you know who is talking about this speaker drama, mess situation is president biden. monica alba is there on the south lawn. help us understand because it was tough to hear. it sounded like when the president was asked about the speaker situation happening on the republican side, he said something along the lines of not my problem. >> reporter: that's exactly what he said. i asked him what he maid over this battle for speaker on the house floor. and that's the first sentence essentially that came out of his mouth. he said it's not my problem with respect to what is going on. he also said it's not a good look for the country. i hope that they get their act together referring to republicans as they continue to

have several ballots to see who may be their leader. the president was quick to say in talking about this with us on the south lawn that his focus today is on infrastructure and bipartisanship. and that event he's going to be traveling to kentucky for today alongside senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. so the president did actually walk away and started to take questions on other topics. then a reporter from fox asked him to talk more about kevin mccarthy's current predicament. he actually walked back and answered more questions on it. so he did talk about this even though yesterday the white house said, look, we're not going to insert ourselves in what's happening on the other end of pennsylvania avenue. but the president did want to say encouraging the gop to try to see if they could come to a consensus here. he said in his words, because the world is watching. and that this level of essentially chaos and disorganization is something he teals does not reflect well upon the united states government, but he did reiterate this was

not happening in his own party. he was eager for the congress to get settled so he could unveil the new priorities and reach across the aisle and work with republicans, like he did on the bipartisan infrastructure law he's going to be celebrating today. >> monica alba, great work getting those questions to president biden. thank you. let me bring in to talk more about this texas congressman collin al right. thank you for being here. at what point does the fact that there's not really a house of representatives go from a governing problem to a national security problem? >> we're lucky we haven't had a crisis that requires the congress to respond, because you are being polite when you call me congress. i'm not. i'm a congressman-elect.

we're not working. i was raised by a single mother in dallas. those kids need us to get to work. our families need us to get to work. not to be going through all this. it's great tv and it's very dramatic, but it's not good for the country. >> let me ask you this. nbc has reported vaughn hillyard spoke with fred upton who says if they wanted him to come in and save the darks he would do it. is that a realistic possibility? have you heard any democrats suggest they would cross the aisle to vote for a cob census candidate for speaker? >> haven't heard that. i have a lot of respect for fred. but it's folks like fred who are no longer in the republican conference. that's a lot of the reason they can't get a speaker. most of the consensus builders, a lot of folks i worked with in my first two terms are not there anymore. and they have been replaced by hard liners and i think fundamentally unserious people.

that's away we're seeing right now. this is a group of folks that can't govern. i saw this when they were in the minority. they would bring up stuff that didn't seem serious, but they didn't have the responsibility of governing at that point. thousand that they have that responsibility, they are incapable of doing it. >> do you expect having to report to the floor for a speaker vote at some point today? is that the expectation on your side? >> i expect to. we're supposed to come back into session at noon. i'm here and ready to get to work. i hope we can. >> this is a weird question. are you getting paid? >> i actually don't know. and we were joking last night on the floor about that. we were saying are we going to have to try to get back pay for this. because we are not sworn in. we're just kind of operating a little on faith here. we moved into offices that are not authorized. it's a complete mess. and it's also historic. it's hurting folks out there who need us to hit the ground

running. this is a big country. there's a the lot to do. we should be getting to work on it. >> let me ask you before i let you go, because you have a lot going on. can you put on your former pro football hat. there's other news about i know something you are aware of and that's damar hamlin of the buffalo bills. with his condition this morning still in critical condition. something that's rocked so many people in the football community. what is your message to people about this league and about what we saw on the field on monday night and the thoughts and prayers from the entire country for damar hamlin? >> i think in a way we have sanitized the game of football so much. the league is very good. when there's an injury you go to commercial break. you don't see what's happening on the field you don't see the pain that guy is in. this is a dramatic case where a country saw a tragedy occur. it's something that every football player it's their worst

nightmare. that you're going to get hit the wrong way. my last play was in dallas. i got hit the wrong way and lost feeling in my right arm. i was unable to get up. i couldn't use my right arm to get up. i had to rock myself. that was the last time i stepped on the field. and this is the risk that players run. they are living their dream. they want want to play in the nfl, but it's a violent game and we have to recognize that. >> congressman-elect, thank you very much. we are all joining you in hoping damar hamlin is going to be okay and we're going to hear good news. thank you. still ahead, we'll speak with another congressman-elect, since nobody is sworn in, on the republican side about how this goes down, what happens and where this goes next if kevin mccarthy again today, if there is a speaker vote, fails on yet another ballot. we'll look at some of the other

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as we look ahead to today's speaker vote, there's a big open

question as to what is up with kevin mccarthy. can he get republicans behind him or behind him enough to vote present? or there it be somebody like jim jordan or maybe somebody else that will emerge? jordan said he doesn't want this. you have steve scalise sittings next to him as a possibility. let me bring in capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles. let me start st with something that's new and just into us yet another piece of the trump factorer here from former president trump, who got on the phone with punch bowl and said it's time for kevin mccarthy's opponents to cut a deal and make him speaker. this is not different from what the former president said on truth social. the question is are any of these ultraconservatives, who are pro donald trump, they like donald trump, are they going to listen to him? will it make a difference? >> reporter: it doesn't hurt county.com. that's for sure. yesterday it looked a lot

different when garrett haake talked to the former president. he seemed ambivalent about kevin mccarthy's future as the house speaker. mccarthy got on the phone with him and has come out with a full-the throated support of him. it makes that process easier, but it doesn't necessarily seal the deal for him. this group of conservatives, who are not happy with the idea of kevin mccarthy as speaker have a long list of grievances that go above and beyond donald trump's support for him. donald trump has been supportive of kevin mccarthy from the very beginning. he calls him my kevin. he appreciates his support so much. so as much as it heps in terms of holding that off, there's still a lot of work he has to do individually with these 20 members who have said they can't support his candidacy and that's the work that continues to go on right now behind closed doors. >> thank you very much. up next, we have brian fitzpatrick joining us live.

somebody whose name has been speculated about for the speakership. plus congressman-elect george santos speaking out, can you call speaking out. we have him on camera after these many moments during yesterday's house session. what he's telling one of our producers in the last couple minutes, coming up. our producers in the last couple minutes, coming up they just piled it on. roast beef, ham, oven roasted turkey. all on the subway club. three peat - that's great. three meat - that's epic. the subway series. the greatest menu of all time.

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same plan as yesterday. he thinks he can can get to 218. but if you want to sense of the opposition to mccarthy, just listen to republican congressman scott perry. >> there are members past and present that have a vested interest in protecting the swamp and the status quo. somebody has to fight for the american people who know this always happens to them. this keeps happening. somebody had has to fight for them. that's us. that's who is doing it. we're not going to back down from that. >> let me bring in somebody who sees it differently. brian fitzpatrick from pennsylvania. congressman-elect, thank you so much for being with us this morning. >> thank you. >> so let me start with where things stand now. i understand your colleagues are hopping on a conference call. you'll need to get to that in a second. do you expect that the house will come into session at noon and there will be a speaker vote? or are republicans trying to adjourn until tomorrow? where do things stand? >> there's a lot up in the air

right now. i'll get on this conference call and learn more. the one thing we know is we need to resolve this situation. i sit on the house intelligence committee. we are not authorized to meet right now. we have oversight over all 19 intelligence agencies responsible for the national security apparatus of our nation and we can't meet to oversee these agencies. so we have to resolve this situation one way or another. >> what does it mean when you say all options are on the table? right now kevin mccarthy is seeming to be moving forward with the option that failed three times yesterday, which is getting him up for the speaker ballot. what's going to be different? what's changed? >> we'll find that out shortly. obviously, the issue is the rules package. that's what our colleagues on the freedom caucus have been working on with the speaker-elect. they have asked for additional concessions. but one way or another, we're

going to find a speaker to get to 218. kevin is the only person within the gop conference that can get there. i suspect he's still will get there. uh-uh don't think anybody else in the gop conference can. >> can you help us understand what some of those concessions are? i know that you are one of the people who has been in deputized to work with the freedom caucus members. here's the way i understand it. tell me what i'm saying that's wrong or right. the motion to dropping that from five noebs one. potential committee posts for some of these members, the potential for a church committee, which can be talk about all sorts of things with the fbi. and then there are some members who don't want kevin mccarthy. there's no cob session that can be made. what are we missing? what else should be on that list? what are you talking about this morning? >> for all 19, they have individual issues and concerns. so this is more one-on-one negotiations. it's a motion to drop from 5 to 1. they will be on board. for other people they want controls around the budgetary process. that would get them on board.

so their individual issues for each of these members ask we have to have these one-on-one conversations and get there quick. like i said, one of our three branches of government is currently offline. it's a very dangerous thing for our country. >> when you talk about this are there enough that can be made. in other words, 20 members who voted on kevin mccarthy. is that part of the discussion? >> all options are on the table. there's some of them where this is a personal vendetta. you're never going to get them no matter what rules changed you make. how many of those are there? roughly three to four. and will they be open to voting present, that they be open to v present? that remains to be scene. there's a lot of things at play here. everything is up in the air right now, truly. you know as much as we do at the moment because a lot of it is going to depend on which way

they decide to break. how many people want to come to the table, how many people are willing to vote yet, how many people are willing to vote present. i don't know what that magic moment is going to be where we got to start considering other options and working across the aisle with our democrat colleagues. but the one thing that is clear, our country cannot go without a speaker, without a speaker we cannot get sworn in, we can't have a rules package. without a rules package, you can't have committees. not an option. >> for you personally, congressman, what will be that magic moment when you think you will need to start considering something like a consensus candidate working with dems, et cetera, is that today, tomorrow, next week? >> it's going to depend on what we see happening round after round after round. every round robin that i've been a part of, the leader advances and the loser drops out. somehow the narrative has become, that since kevin had gotten a 218 yet, he should drop out. he's gotten 92% of the vote every single time. why would he drop out in that

scenario? it doesn't make any sense. i think there needs to be some transparent conversations today, people need to tell us where they're at, whether they can get there or not. if they can't get there, tell us and we'll move on to another option. >> your name has been speculated about as a potential candidate if kevin mccarthy were to drop out. is that something you would consider? >> no. >> flat-out no. >> correct. >> it's an extraordinary state of affairs. what does it say to you about the state of your party right now? >> you got a lot of independent thinkers in the gop, that's for sure. that's nothing new. but this is a little bit different, hallie. you have to firmly plant the goalposts to say what you need to get to yes. we should be able to do that on every vote and situations like this. what do you need to do to get to yes? the items need to stay the change, they can't change every 15 minutes. >> are there any other names besides kevin mccarthy that you're willing to say that you would support as of this

morning? >> we are solely focused on kevin right now. we'll cross that bridge if and when we come to it. >> i talked with one of your democratic colleagues about the potential national security concerns about not having a house sworn in. talk about that and then i just -- he didn't know if he's getting paid. are you getting paid right now? >> yeah, we don't even know the answer to that. i saw a political article that suggested january 13th. committee staff will be cut off at that point. this is a question for the house administration committee. brian style is the leader on the gop side. i'm going to get an answer to that question, because it's now become a real possibility. >> given your status and position, are you worried about the national security implications if this does drag out? >> we all should be. not having a house select committee on intelligence overseeing the 19 intelligence agencies is a dangerous thing for our country. it's why we got to resolve this one way or another. >> congressman-elect, thank you so much for your time.

it's good to see you this morning. i know you got to hop on the conference call. i'll let you go. george san santos. still not responding to some of our questions on the accusations that he embellished parts of his past. watch. >> sir, can you still be sworn in at the end of this process? >> yes, i do. >> did you speak to mr. mccarthy yesterday? >> yes, i did and i still support him. >> did he offer any advice? >> brief. a little moment on camera there for george santos. but he does say he's going to continue to support kevin mccarthy. you know that he has been not just surrounded by cameras at almost every moment, but surrounded by scandal, after he acknowledged embellishing parts of his resume. he spent a lot of yesterday by

himself on the house floor. some of these images that ended up going viral. checking his phone. not really a big part of the conversation with fellow members of the republican conference. let me bring in congressional correspondent for the "new york times." this is somebody, annie, as you documented, santos's first day on the job who doesn't seem to have a ton of friends here considering there's a question whether he'll face a house ethics investigation for the way he conducted his campaign? >> he observed him all day yesterday as he made his way around the capitol. and he was treated like an outcast, almost like a pariah. members of his own party have been calling for an ethics investigation and i talked to mike gallagher, a republican who said this guy has no handle on the truth. no one wanted to be seen with him. those pictures, there was a group of new york republicans gathering and hanging out together right near him. some of whom had aligned themselves with him in those few weeks when he looked like one of

these new republicans who had turned a blue district red in a very blue state. they were doing fox news hits together. they didn't talk to him. another republican from "new york post"ed -- from new york posted a picture. it was a lonely day. the capitol complex is an easy place to get lost. and he was dodging cameras. he didn't want to talk to the press. the snippet that you played today was more talking than he did yesterday. he passed his office door a few times. had no idea where he was going. it was an awkward and isolating day for him watching him try to get his bearings there on capitol hill yesterday. >> annie, great to see you. thank you so much. we're back next hour checking in with the reporters on capitol hill was area see up to the noon, we think, swearing in --

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♪♪ back with you now from washington. where there is still a ton of uncertainty, a ton of drama in the building behind me here. we're now just about an hour out from the house gaveling in for its second day of trying to get it together and vote for a new speake