jeffries. boebert? donalds. bonamici? jeffries. bost? bost? mccarthy. bowman? jeffries. boyle of brecheen? donalds. brown? jeffries.

buck? buck? bucshon? mccarthy. budzinski? jeffries. burchett? mccarthy. burgess? mccarthy. burlison? mccarthy. bush? jeffries. calvert? mccarthy. caraveo? jeffries. carbajal? jeffries.

mccarthy. carl? mccarthy. carson? jeffries. carter of georgia? mccarthy. carter of louisiana? jeffries. carter of texas? mccarthy. casar? jeffries. case? jeffries. casten? jeffries. castor of florida? jeffries. castro of

cicilline? jeffries. ciscomani? mccarthy. clark of massachusetts? jeffries. clarke of new

mccarthy. comer? mccarthy. connolly? >> so we are waiting for the vote for michael cloud because potentially if he did decide not to vote for kevin mccarthy, that would have put them over the threshold but now we are waiting

for andrew clyde. we have the fifth ballot for speaker and the fifth ballot that seems to be moving in the same direction as the first four? >> exactly. it was 21 on the last ballot. 21 republicans who did not vote for mccarthy. 20 voted for donalds. one voted present. and again we're just tracking as they go through the list alphabetically. how are they voting on the first ballot? and none of these have voted for kevin mccarthy on any of the previous ballots. all sticking with donalds on this ballot. waiting to see exactly what happened with michael cloud of texas, he has not been with kevin mccarthy on any of the previous votes but andrew clyde of georgia, eli crane of arizona, all with donalds. mathematically, what it means is assuming all 212 democrats continue to stay put and continue to vote for jeffries, it means unless there is a bunch of republican abstentions that we haven't seen before, that magic number will be 218, and

once again, one, two, three, four, five, six, they start out with 222 republicans, the absolute most that mccarthy could get right now is 216. and there just isn't a scenario for him to win on this ballot. we're seeing it again. once you hit that number five, five voting for another candidate, no amount of abstentions is going to save kevin mccarthy on the ballot. so five ballots now. we'll continue to look here and see is there any movement. is there any movements towards kevin mccarthy among any of these members on the fifth ballot? remember, he had 21 who didn't vote for him and is that number any less this time around? or is it any more? are there further defections to donalds? are there further defections from mccarthy? we haven't seen those yet either. but the bottom line is five is not enough for mccarthy. we already know that just from what has been cast. >> joining me now is nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake,

"washington post" political reporter eugene scott, and former house speaker paul ryan and brenden buck, the political analyst susan dell curso. brenden, let me go to you, because there's that old saying, i think it is attributed to einstein, that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. but as steve just pointed out, they're waiting to see, we have to wait to see whether there are any further defections. but what do you make of this quick turn to have a fifth ballot? >> well, it tells me that kevin mccarthy can't get off the floor. so the options here are pretty limited. you keep voting or you vote to adjourn. but you need 218 votes to stop, i think at this point, kevin mccarthy would like to have people stop voting against him and would like to buy some time to maybe have some conversations, maybe have a conversation meeting, i don't know, but i think he realizes this is not a good look. but he needs cooperation to do that. and the fact that they're

rolling into another vote tells me he's not in control of the floor and this could be going on for much of the rest of the day if they can't get people to give in a little, and try to buy some time for space. obviously, during, toward the end of the last vote, you saw some pretty animated conversations that clearly didn't yield any kind of deal, but it feels like emotions are running high enough where you need to get people off the floor and having those conversations and maybe take a little advantage of it. but i can't tell you what, where this is going to go and what's going to happen from here. kevin mccarthy is going to have to dig in for the long haul, if he really thinks he is going to be able to break these folks. because look, they are showing very clearly whether it was for jordan yesterday or donalds today, this is an anti-kevin mccarthy vote. they don't care who else it is. they want to take kevin mccarthy out and are willing to vote as many times as it takes to do that. of course i want to see what victoria sparks does on this vote, she is the one who wasn't

present last time, very surprising type of member to do that and see if she goes through and names another person. but kevin mccarthy is pretty much stuck at this point. unless he gets people to work with him a little bit, he can't even stop these votes from taking place, and losing over and over again. >> so susan, mccarthy did say, earlier today, he thought republicans could get to an agreement, and in fact, last night he was sending out key allies to talk, to negotiate, with a big group of holdouts that included brian fitzpatrick, patrick mchenry, bruce westerman. french hill, garrett graves. mccarthy gave zero votes in the fourth round. he lost one actually. we're waiting to see if he can gain a vote here. but where do you think this is going? or does anybody know, how much of a nightmare scenario is this right now? >> i don't think anyone knows what is going to happen. and one vote difference for kevin mccarthy, i understand the sense of momentum, but it's just getting to the point of complete

gridlock, and it is dangerous and upsetting for our government. this is going to be the second time we don't have a speaker, we don't have elected members of congress sworn in. they are simply congress members-elect. they can't do their job. government can't function some of the this is a big problem. and what is so disturbing is these 20 or so members, they are not looking for somebody who agrees with their principles, because they have no principles. they just, as brendan said, they just don't want kevin mccarthy. and that should not be enough. >> so let me bring in nebraska congressman done beggen from nebraska, he just literally came off the floor, and well, this is not what you were hoping for as a supporter of kevin mccarthy. but can you give us some insight into the conversations that you heard that were being had in between these two votes, and do you still see a path for kevin

mccarthy as speaker? >> well, i have to agree with your previous speaker, that this is going to be a long haul, this could take a long time to get done, there is 19 or 20, maybe 21 individuals who want to just stop kevin mccarthy at all costs. what i would like to communicate is what bothers us is they were given everything over the last month in concessions, and they gained every single concession they asked for and they could not get to yes, and they were, a personal thing directed to kevin mccarthy, but that's not right. we have 85% who voted for kevin and now 91%. and the right thing to do is to pull us around a single person and be a team. teams win. teams in combat, if you're not unified, you get defeated. and so it is incumbent upon this group to come together. one thing to point out. we could have passed three major pieces of legislation and have our committees filled, all on hold right now, because of this

9% of our conference. >> congressman, where does this go from here? i mean what are you hearing from kevin mccarthy? do you just keep doing vote after vote after vote? if you're not going to change the minds of 20 people, or you're not going to change the minds of 15 people, what is the next step here, congressman? >> well, there's two prongs. i think he has to continue working with these 20-some-odd votes and hopefully over time, will succeed, 201, 202 have just as much power as they, do and.it is a small group and work across the area and find areas that we can compromise with the democrats, positions on committees, and motions to recommit and office space and a range of issues that we could do to see if we could start building a more bipartisan team regardless. because we don't want to be held captive by the small handful that they're not very bipartisan

anyway and you got to be a bipartisan member to get anything done, if you want to get something done as a democrat, with a democratic president. >> i was looking at your comments to your local paper, the holme omaha world herald and you said essentially the same thing, if it is not kevin mccarthy, there is the name of a moderate republican that maybe some democrats could get behind. again just maybe making some sort of deal. what kinds of names are we talking about here? who might be that person? >> well, i'd like to say bipartisan republicans, someone who knows how to work across the aisle to seek consensus and they can be conservative and we need to find people that can find consensus in congress to be effective. right now, we have thought about several individuals but we want to focus on kevin mccarthy first. that's what the conference voted on overwhelmingly, and we should continue that. but if at some point, these 15, okay, it started at five, and now we're talking 20 or 21, if

they refuse to work with the rest of the team, we're going to be forced to work across the aisle to seek that bipartisan leader, and we have some names in mind but we really want to focus on kevin mccarthy right now and that's the important thing. >> how worried are you about the potential damage that is being done to the republican party? we were showing earlier in hebron, kentucky, where there were a number of bipartisan leaders including joe biden, including mitch mcconnell, including sherrod brown, including mike dewine, who of course is also a republican, governor bashear from kentucky, essentially a democrat, sending a message that government can work, and here is an example of how it is working and we're bringing money home to our state and getting things done. meantime, you have essentially this split screen, congressman, where we're having vote after vote after vote after vote, and as you say, less than 10% of your caucus is not going to,

doesn't seem willing at least at this point to change, maybe they'll change the name of the person, but they're not going to go for kevin mccarthy, are you worried about how the american people, how your own constituents are viewing this? >> i am worried. my constituents, they lean conservative, but they want folks who can work across the aisle and seek consensus. they want a more bipartisan conservative leader. that's at least in my district. but that's not what they're seeing right now. they're seeing people right now who are saying it's my way or the highway, we demand 100%. one of these folks, one the leaders said they would prefer hakeem jeffries as speaker, this is how extreme some of these members have come as a member of the republicans, trying to get a republican speaker. i voted for the bipartisan infrastructure bill because i knew it was good. our district and i think most of america wants people to put americans first and dot right thing before the party comes in there. and if they're not seeing that

right now, it is hurting us with our citizens, i think it will hurt us in 2024, if we don't turn this around and start doing the right thing. >> if i can just ask you one more time, and i understand that these are private conversations that you're having, but can you give us a few names of someone you think could bring this stalemate to a close? >> there are some good people out there, if i throw those names out there, that becomes the story, we want to focus on kevin mccarthy right now, and we want to help them get to 218 votes that he needs, and i would like him to first work with democrats, before, you know, at some point, and see if he can signed some compromise areas, where he could get to 218 that way. that could be some democrats voting absent, some democrats voting present, but they're not going to do that without some compromise from us and that could be committee ratios, a whole range of things that we could look at there. i would love to have ketch do

-- kevin do that first before we pull out and figure out who the alternative is. >> you have been generous of your time and i want to ask one more question, how patient people are willing to be, and there is reality, the house has stuff to get done the senate needs to go, and at some point they need to get that done, that is the legislative part of it and the personal part of it, we're seeing visually on the floor of the house, you can see some people looking like they're getting worked up and you can almost feel the frustration watching the folks on the floor. there are families, i don't know if your family is, there but there are families waiting to see their loved ones sworn in. many of them first time members of the house. anxious to deliver on what they promised their constituents, who put them in office. is there a breaking point for you? is there a point at which you say, okay, i think kevin mccarthy would have been a great speaker, but it's time for us to move on? and what is that point? >> you're right. these folks have created chaos, disorder, disruption, with their

families, but with the house, with the house and our conservative agenda, we could have already voted on three bills, we would have had our committees lined up, and it is all on hold right now. what they're banking on is our will power is less than their will power. and i have a strong will power. i hope kevin mccarthy does, too. and we need to have a strong will power and hang in there. eventually, we hope that we get some of those folks at our side, but at some point kevin mccarthy will have to work across the aisle, too. that's how i envision this getting wrapped up. it may take many days to do so. unfortunately. there's no need for this to have happened. 91% of the folks voting for kevin, the right thing to do is to come together and be a team and these folks are failing us, they're failing the house, they're failing america by what they're doing. >> republican congressman don bacon, in the middle of what looks like it may indeed be a long couple of days for you and for your fellow members of congress. we thank you for taking the time to talk to us. with me rye out in brendan

buck, susan del percio. and what do you see? >> i have great affection for don bacon. a few mixed messages. he is talking about what i think is the right thing to say that they really want, to you know, bear down and go as long as it takes but also floating other names at this point, it is not exactly a demonstration of strength. look, i've said this several times. i think the notion of republicans turning to democrats to resolve this is quite far-fetched. we may be very far from that. i think that is like from here to the moon. i just can't imagine that happening. it would be unprecedented in modern times for the majority to rely on the minority to get set up and have the speaker. the types of things that democrats would ask for to help kevin mccarthy get there, or anybody, whether it's some other, you know, political caretaker, the democrats work to

negotiate with the republicans, i can just tell you, i've been working that conference for a long time, it would set the house republican conference on fire. there is no way that they would allow democrats to help name the speaker. so i don't think that is a likely scenario. i think much more likely this gets grinded out for a very long time where kevin mccarthy comes to some conclusion that he can't get there. >> what happens on the other side, eugene? is it a situation of democrats just sit back, let the democrats do the damage that we saw the congressman say he believes is clearly being done, or is there some sort of compromise? would democrats be a part of it? >> well, representative alexandria ocasio-cortez made it clear yesterday that there have been no discussions with democrats to propose someone that republicans would be behind. the democrats are incredibly unified behind hakeem jeffries.

and one thing that democrats are probably doing right now is signature back and enjoying this, because if you can remember, the last time that there was a vote for speaker, there was real concern and thought that maybe some of the more progressive members of the democratic party would block nancy pelosi from moving forward. they thought perhaps she would not put forward an agenda that was in line with what they believed that their voters wanted them to back. but what is actually happening right now, considering that democrats all got on board together, it's the republicans are having that exact same problem, when you have this more fringe group of lawmakers who at least are arguing that they're advocating for a world view and values from their voters, that are keeping a much more establishment candidate from getting to the leadership position he desires. >> thank you all very much as we continue to watch the votes coming in and we just saw kevin mccarthy voting for himself, but again, on the fifth ballot, it appears that there is no path for him, and for a fifth time, it may be that the democrat,

hakeem jeffries gets the most votes for speaker. let's take a quick break. we'll be back with much more on this extraordinary and historic day on capitol hill, right after this. i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget

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the ballot counting continues. you're looking at capitol hill, the floor of the house and kevin mccarthy appearing to lose yet again another vote for speaker but we still have dozens of official votes to come in. my panel is back in with me. garrett haake, brendan buck, susan del percio, i'm sure you heard me talking to congressman bacon, and there is a human aspect and people are frustrated and they want to be sworn in and their families are here and i understand a couple of hours ago nancy pelosis stopped her reporters briefly and said she

thinks members should be sworn in without a speaker kind of a courtesy of families and their children waiting to watch loved ones take the oath of office? is that possible? what you are hearing about the rest of the day? do democrats have any influence about where it goes? >> sure, it's possible. the house especially right now, with house speaker and the rules package, purely majority, and anything with 218 votes in the chamber, the house could do, so if they wanted the pressure off and we can pause and swear in some of these members, let families get their pictures and so forth, they could do that. but this started out as part of the kevin mccarthy strategy here to make these rebels a little bit uncomfortable and they kept families here today and many came to washington and they want their picture and their moment and some of the operating theory here at the beginning was let's put a little pressure on and squeeze these folks who would rather be at parties than sitting around and doing this over and over again. that obviously hasn't worked. look, there is a little bit of that frustration on both sides. but for the democrats

particularly, the overall political calculation here is still incredibly clear, every time republicans have another of these votes, and kevin mccarthy takes 20 rhetorical punches to the face from his party, democrats are reasonably happy about it. as some of the nomination speeches have suggested, and i think we can play some of the contrast here, between the republicans setting up another kevin mccarthy vote and how the democrats are talking about their candidates and you can hear some of the enthusiasm here. take a listen. >> i think my friends on the democratic side misunderstand what is happening here. sure, it looks messy. but democracy is mess sy. democracy is messy. by design. by design. >> madam clerk, make no mistake, there is no frustration on our side. we are focused on serving the american people. in order to do that, we have to unite behind a speaker can and

democrats are united behind a speaker who prioritizes putting better-paying jobs, in industries of the future. >> chris, the simple fact in the house is being in the minority is a drag. due control anything. you don't -- you don't control anything. due control committees. due control votes. there is very little you can do except try to stand in the way of the majority party. and if you're the democrats nobody is doing a better job than standing in the way of the republican agenda than other republicans and they can sit back and scroll their phones and do the day's wordle, and the republicans are doing the biggeston in the minority for them. >> and eugene, they have been able to poke a little fun, i think it was california congressman ted lu who posted a picture of himself holding a bag of popcorn. about to go to the house floor. and there is another one. the twitter feed. at some point, you know, this becomes also on the democratic

side, yes, maybe this makes the republicans look bag, but we have to get stuff done, or is there really absolutely nothing for them to do, and you know, maybe make a little fun or at some point maybe decide, you know, cheering gop spectacle doesn't work so well because most voters want to see a functioning government? eugene? >> well, this does not make democrats look as if they are not on the same page, or focus, because they actually are, and they've been consistent since before congress began. and so what they can do, all they can do is highlight their messaging and make it very clear to voters and the american public what it is that they would do if they were in control. what they're trying to do right now is make it very clear to people that there's chaos in their, among their political opponents and that this is going to be something that people can get used to, in this

congressional session, because they're hoping that that will work out in their favor in 2024. all of this is focused on 2024 and in so many ways that are not very clear right now but will be clear very soon. >> so brendan, i mean do you also get to the point where, whether it is kevin mccarthy or someone else, getting the gavel, i mean you're going to walk in bruised and scarred? >> yes, i think we're certainly at that point. and look, a lot of conversation about well, who's next, you know, kevin mccarthy just steps aside, could it be this person, or that person? i think we need to appreciate that if kevin mccarthy does come to the conclusion that he can't get there, that doesn't mean this is over quickly. someone else has to get 218 votes. someone else is going to have to probably negotiate with the same people about what they're looking for. it's no slam dunk that anybody is going to easily get 218 votes. i don't know what that process would look like. i don't know if they take a

break for several days to have some kind of very quick leadership election. or if they try to just roll into a vote. and again, the negotiations, but to your point, whoever takes over is probably, if it's not kevin mccarthy, if kevin mccarthy and his allies don't break the will of these 20 or so dissident members, whoever it is, is probably going to have to live under their rules. they're probably going to have to give into. it and maybe that is the conclusion that kevin mccarthy comes to at some point, i might as well give in to whatever they're asking because somebody is going to have to do it eventually. but it is a really bad long-term prospect for this conference, if it lets 20 members say that they can overtake the speaker. and ultimately, that's what this is going to come down to. it is not about kevin mccarthy at some point. it is about who is in charge. whether it's 20 people getting to set the direction for everybody else or whether they're finally going to stand up for themselves.

the problem is standing up for yourself may take a really, really long time and all of the things they said they wanted to do are on hold until then. they can do ceremonial swearing in. but they can't actually get sworn in. they can't actually do their work until they come to some conclusion. >> one sort of analysis here is whatever happens, we have 15 second memories, and so now, it's, you know, almost two years before any of these folks have to try to get elected again, and this will be a distant memory, if it is even a memory at all, and so we're overstating what actually the impact of this is. are we? >> well, i agree about the short mem ryes but the impact is who becomes speaker? so if it is kevin mccarthy and he gives in to everybody, it will be a weak conference and those republicans who are in tight districts, there are 18 who won this year in biden districts, they are going to have to explain why they haven't gotten anything done.

and that is i think part of the issue right now, when we see this fight for the speaker. congressman bacon made a really interesting point. he said will the will of the 90 hold out longer than the will of the 10? we don't need the will of the 90. we just need 12, 15, who hold out and fighting for their principles. that may be the 18 members of congress who won in thoi those biden districts. and i think this is going to turn very quickly on republicans. as far as not being able to look like they can lead or do anything of their agenda that can stick with them. so i don't know if they do reach out to democrats and try to get something, it could be as simple as having the same amount of members on the committee, and pretty much how the senate got their work done in the previous two years. whatever it is, the republicans will not come out of this cohesive or strong.

and that's what will hurt them in two years. >> so we're continuing to listen to the vote. it does appear kevin mccarthy has lost for the fifth time. will there be any movement at all? we'll take a quick break and come back, and we'll check in with steve kornacki and see where the numbers landed, and then the question becomes, will there be a sixth vote today? will there be a seventh vote? where is this going? keep it right here. this is "chris jansing reports" on msnbc. “i swear”) plays ♪ jaycee tried gain flings for the first time the other day... and forgot where she was. [buzz] you can always spot a first timer. gain flings with oxi boost and febreze. moderate-to-severe eczema. it doesn't care if you have a date, a day off, or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema with steroid-free cibinqo. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill

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policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. so yet another tense moment on the house floor because about 15 members didn't vote on the first round of going through what is the fifth ballot, so steve kornacki has been tracking to see if anybody has shifted the vote that we expected from them. what are we seeing at this point? >> it looks like we're going to wait. and we are waiting, i'm just looking tat right now, remember in the last round, victoria sparks, she just voted present again, so we're looking at a repeat of the last round, where hakeem jeffries the democrat will get 212 and 201 for kevin mccarthy, and 20 once again for

byron donalds and there is one present vote, and that vote was once again cast by victoria sparks from indiana. so this is the exact same tally we had last time. kevin mccarthy peeled off none of the defecters. there were no additional defections. and sparks continues to vote present in this thing. so again, with that one present vote, very technically the threshold here, the majority was reduced to 217, with one present vote, but nobody any closer to reaching that on this, the fifth ballot, that any of the previous four and we have been tracking them on here. these are the two who voted who have been consistently voted against kevin mccarthy. they have all been voting today for byron donalds and getting down to victoria sparks who on the fourth ballot voted present, and then returned to voting present on the fifth ballot, and so no change, and we've been having the conversation, what do they do, if they try for adjournment, do the democrats

fight them on adjournment and keep going through the process over and over again? if somebody moves for adjournment, and all 212 democrats are against adjournment, then all it would take is six of the republicans from this group, this anti-kevin mccarthy group, to also vote against adjournment and force them to keep going through this. if this really seem kind of stuck in the mud. the anti-mccarthy group is really not growing but it is also not shrinking at all. >> steve, thank for that. let me go to white house correspondent carol lee, political white house reporter and play book co-author eugene daniels, also an msnbc contributor. so let's look at the democratic side of this, the chaos on the house floor, on the republican side, versus what we were talking about earlier, which is bipartisanship in kentucky. how is all of this playing at the white house? what is the administration saying, as we see an animated

steve scalise talking to some members of his caucus. >> i think from the white house's perspective, what they like, the split screen, this is something that you will probably see more of, at least from the white house's strategic perspective, throughout this year, this is a year where the president's plan is to, very low expectations that legislating will get done and the plan for the president is to be out there in the country, focusing on the things that he has accomplished during his first two years in office, particularly bipartisan legislation. you heard the president while in kentucky with the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell say that he wanted to start the new year with this event to send a message to the country that washington can get things done. and at the same time, you see what's happening in the house, and the contrast that the white house intends to, expects to be drawn even further, throughout this year. when you talk to white house officials, they say their

expectation is that the house will be passing a lot of legislation that many americans don't support, and then you'll see the president out in the country, talking about provisions in the laws that he signed over the past two years that are going into effect, and hope from the white house, that the president will get credit for those provisions going into effect, and that americans will start to feel better about the economy. and at the same time, look at what is happening in the house, and say that this is not the kind of governing that they want to see unfolding in washington, and all of that, against the backdrop of the vice president expected announcement, the president's announcement that he is expected to run again for re-election. >> and the fight over the kevin mccarthy speakership, you have to believe that the white house is spending a lot of time talking about how they use this to their advantage. >> absolutely. even last year, as it became clear that you know, we knew the house was going to flip, and

everyone knew there was such a thin margin of error here, kevin mccarthy maybe at the top of that list, and they were talking about what are the ways in which this white house can make clear to the american people, one, look how extreme republicans are on issues, and in their view, and also, look at us doing the work, we are doing the work, while they are investigating, et cetera, and now, you have the president out with the -- i think this is one that probably a lot of americans are surprised, these two men like each other, after more than 36 years of working with each other in some form or fashion, but that's what he is doing, he is out talking about the bipartisan infrastructure bill, they're going to have the vice president doing that, and pete buttigieg is going that, so the administration is saying look at how we work, we are an administration that are finding ways to do things that carol just said that are going to make your life better and easier this year, and look at the republicans, so we'll have all of these, the thread, through

all of the kind of events that we're going to see this year, and it is a white house that has kind of trying to stay above the fray. president biden was asked about the speakership and he said it is not his problem, and calling it embarrassing, saying it is not his problem, and the white house press secretary staying above the fray and they don't want to get in the muck and they want to make it clear to the american people that there is a difference between, to them, what the president is doing, and what democrats want to do, which is focus on the work, while republicans are having these very, very public fights and i think they didn't plan obviously for the speakership fight to go this long and be this ugly but they're definitely not sad about it either. they're not talking about it, but everyone, when you talk to them, they know exactly what is going on and how many votes he's lost by, et cetera, the last couple of days. >> eugene and carol, thank you you both. i want to go back to the house floor and talk with the congressman from florida, carlos

curbelo and we saw nancy pelosi deep in conversation and when we talk about strategy, would you rather have hakeem jeffries and nancy pelosi on your side or kevin mccarthy and steve scalise. >> when you have nancy pelosi lose a third of the members in an internal party vote when she last ran for speaker after democrats won the majority, and nancy pelosi was able to unite her caucus. and have a fairly orderly process on the house floor. now, nancy pelosi did not get the unanimous support of her caucus back then, and you know, many times, when she ran for speaker, she did not get unanimous support from democrats. hakeem jeffries has and that's remarkable. democrats were able to pull off

a complex major overhaul of their leadership without any drama, without any infighting, so right now, it certainly looks like the democrats are far more organized and far more coherent, and what we're seeing on the republican side with mccarthy and scalise and others failing to unite the conference, i mean this is really something that's not new. for years, this has been festering in the house republican conference for years, it has been part of the dna of the house republican conference. john boehner won the speakership the last time without a majority of votes, without 218, i think he got 215, or 216, and why? because democrats were absent on that day. paul ryan lost about -- >> may i interrupt you for a second if i can, because the president is being asked right now about this speaker fight. can we go to that live?

>> the greatest nation in the world. how can that be? and we've had a lot of trouble, i'm sorry for the noise, a lot of probably with the attacks on our institutions already. and that is what worries me more than anything else? >> what about -- >> on the table? >> yes. >> are you worried about how china is handling covid right now? >> well, yes, i am, but i think we just have to make the protocol we set out, that if you're flying from china, you got to be tested and so on. china has not been, i know they're very sensitive about it, and they haven't been that forthcoming. >> thank you. thanks, everybody. >> can you talk about the significance of having mitch mcconnell with you here today?

>> that's all for you to decide. >> and how your relationships will be focused, how your relationship will matter in this next congress, with house republicans being what they are? >> look, i've had a relationship with mitch mcconnell for years. and during the obama administration, they were going to work to pay the debt, and you can remember, we stayed up, new years night, until late night to finish it. we've worked together. all right. thank you very much. >> so joe biden calling what's happening, what he's seeing right now, in this fight, embarrassing, and i'm talking about his ability to work with mitch mcconnell, somebody he served beside for decades in the u.s. senate. let me go back, if i can, to you, carlos, because we were talking about who might have

influence. there's the president, who is looking very much in control, has a pulpit, obviously, a bully pulpit, as he stands beside a republican governor today, and the highest-ranking republican on the senate side. and talking about things that they're getting done. i mean is there someone on the republican side we're not thinking of who can navigate, help navigate this party, the republican party, to a better place? i mean i think about, you know, a jim clyburn on the democratic side, who very quietly could have a tremendous amount of influence. who is the person on the republican side who could be in those groups of folks, talking to people, and actually having them listen? >> well, chris, i think in terms of the house republican conference, we're going to find out here pretty soon if there is someone else who can step up and unite house republicans.

i am registering, for the first time, since this whole process started, some mccarthy allies, getting a sense of fatigue, getting frustrated, getting worried about the spectacle and the embarrassment that it has become for house republicans, and people are starting to turn their eyes to steve scalise. the pressure will likely be on steve scalise very soon to step up and say i am going to try to bring together this conference, this will be difficult for steve scalise, but a lot of members think that he is someone who could pull it off. there is a lot of goodwill for steve scalise. i would remind viewers steve scalise nearly lost his life a few years ago while i was serving in congress and he was shot at a baseball practice, and obviously, it was a very difficult situation for him and for the house, it built a lot of goodwill for scalise, he is someone who gets along with most of the members of the conference, though i do think

that soon house republicans will start looking to him to see if he can pull this off. >> carlos curbelo, always a pleasure to have you on the program. thank you so much we have maybe one republican who might actually be having a good outcome from this. i'm talking about congressman-elect george santos, back on the hill for a second day. all of this fighting, votes for speaker, taking a little bit of attention from him and all of his controversy. so we're going to check in on how it's going after a lonely start to his embattled and very short almost congressional career. ♪♪ ♪ a bunch of dead guys made up work, way back when. ♪ ♪ it's our turn now we'll make it up again. ♪ ♪ we'll build freelance teams with more agility. ♪ ♪ the old way of working is deader than me. ♪ ♪ we'll scale up, and we'll scale down ♪ ♪ before you're six feet underground. ♪

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all of it amid calls for his resignation and that scandal over his falsified resume. joining me now, nbc news senior national reporter sahil kapur. we saw him sitting alone quite a bit yesterday. how is it going for the congressman-elect. >> an awkward couple of days, for george santos, c-span cameras have an eagle eye on him and see him out there, caught sitting on his own, and one point, as you noted he was caught yawning, just recently, he has been seen in groups of republicans, chatting, you know, with members like steve scalise, the number two republican, and there is one thing that george santos does seem to want to talk about, kevin mccarthy, the official nominee to be speaker which is struggling to win the vote. let's play what george santos had to say about that.

>> where do you stand in this process? did you vote for kevin mccarthy? >> yes i spoke with him. >> did he offer any advice? >> and the cold hard fact right now is that republicans need the vote of george santos to elect the speaker. they're already facing a mutiny. they have 20 defections plus one new present vote and if they lose george santos to the calls for resignation, it would be even more difficult to elect a speaker, that's the awkward dynamic that republican leaders are facing as many are mystified and bewildered about his apparent fabrications of major portions of his resume. >> thank you. and at this hour, still no speaker, still no closer to a speaker, and republicans in the majority still unable to get anything done on the hill. that's going to do it for me today. hallie jackson will pick up our coverage next. ill pick up our coverage next. about what comes next in life. for her. i may not be in perfect health, but i want to stay in my home,

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