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elected. a speaker has not been elected. >> yes, the circus is still in town and the group of 20 serial insurrectionists opposing kevin mccarthy, they are right about one thing, this man has no business being speaker of the house. if he can't navigate his way around the basic vote to get the job he's not remotely capable of leading especially a radical caucus filled with this iteration of republicans. and we do begin tonight with the never ending republican fight over the next hour -- the never ending republican fight for speaker. over the next hour kevin mccarthy should be wise to learn this one lesson because he's going to be facing this hell over the next hour. any tolerance of insurrection breeds more. in the next hour as i mention

the house will return to try to get done what they could not do earlier on this ground-hog day of voting. but beyond showing in realtime kevin's inability to do the job this dumpster fire is making it clear the republicans keeping republicans paralyzed are just digging in. on his second day of humiliation, while those 20 backed a new candidate, one of their own, former congressman byron donalds who previously supported mccarthy. in nominating donalds, a black republican, for the third time today on the sixth vote for speaker, house freedom caucus chair scott perry, one of the january 6th plotters who tried to subvert the department of justice to overthrow the last election precisely because republicans do not trust the results when black voters get their way, added something about frederick douglas because of course he did. and he justified paralyzing the house because washington is

broken. >> and i would say this i think the person that has done the most -- that has done the most to make this fabulous, this wonderful republican majority is speaker pelosi and her policy. that's what has achieved this majority over here because the american people are sick and tired of it, and they've had enough of it. now, this is not about -- this is not about personalities. we believe and we want to believe -- >> false statements since he's bashing the former speaker by name on the floor. meanwhile a former congressman took her own dig as she nominated kevin mccarthy in the same vote. >> but they want us divided, they want us to fight each other. that much has been made clear by

the popcorn and alcohol and blankets coming over there. the house is not in order. >> hard to believe young people don't want to be republicans with that kind of a display. of course kevin mccarthy seems intent on proving he's a glutton for punishment because his situation has not gotten better. the only movement has been away from him as indiana republican victoria strats switched her vote to simply present. in the face of a united vote from democrats the republican ruins were on full display on the floor as members of the hold out gang including an especially animated matt gaetz faced off with republican supporters. meanwhile in a sign of frustration among republicans is boiling over, colorado congressman ken buck says mccarthy needs to strike a deal or step aside. >> the smart thing to do is to

get together, have a conversation, choose somebody and let's move forward. >> who might that be? >> well, i think the next in line is steve scalise, and i don't know if steve gets more or less. i think that at some point we've got to start looking at the rules and the committee assignments and other things and just get back to the basics of what people -- what their self-interest is in this case and meet some of those interests, and hopefully get the votes. >> joining me now is the nbc news senior national political reporter, brandon buck, former chief communications advisor and former speaker paul ryan and msnbc political analyst, and also a senior advisor to the lincoln project. thank you all for being here. i'm going to start with you at the table. what's the latest on the hill and where stand these 20 including matt gaetz who apparently has been quite animated about his lack of respect for kevin mccarthy. >> matt gaetz is not backing down. there's no indication any of the 20 rebels are backing down, and

they're prepared to keep this going and vote and vote. matt gaetz a few hours ago told our nbc capitol hill team he's prepared to vote. quote, until the cherry blossoms fall from the trees, there's also no sign the mccarthy voters are backing down. they don't blame mccarthy which is why he's willing to go forth and do this again. they worry if they cave to this 10% right now which when i talked to her yesterday called it the radical 2% -- they're determined to standstill. i see a stalemate as far as the eye can see, one aid closely involved in this who i was texting a couple hours ago said there's no sign kevin mccarthy is tapping out. we're going to see what if anything changes. >> and doing the exact same

thing. thanks for being on the show tonight. kat who basically her whole speech was fentanyl, border, fentanyl, border, biden. so there's no ideological difference between her and the 20 people who are refusing to vote for kevin mccarthy. so in your view to me it just looks like they're torturing kevin mccarthy because they hate the guy. how do you see it? >> yeah, they want to get a scout. look, this is much bigger than kevin mccarthy. matt gaetz is never going to vote for mccarthy. this is much more about who's in charge of this conference. this is dynamic i faced when i was on the hill. it's been building for 10, 12 years a small rough group of conservatives, no more really policy conservatives as you noted in the rest of the group, just completely uncompromising and what i basically think of as

a fantasy world, this alternate reality where you never have to compromise, you never give in on anything, you just fight and only accept conservative things. and they have this mind-set that leadership is weak and and they've been basically up ending our plans for over a decade now. and the rest of the conference says you can't bow to them. what's really at stake for them is whether they're going to stand up to these 20. as long as as that's the debate, then they might be willing to stand there and fight for him as long as they want. many people have not understood the too party movement was not wanting to change government, it was wanting to undo government and undo as the point there's this belief among people who

don't know anything about the way the government works the only reason they can't blow through the debt ceiling, slash government and the department of education, get rid of the irs, and the reason those things aren't happening is republican leadership is too weak to do the things they claim most americans want. you can go over the debt ceiling and crash the economy, and the only reason they won't crash the economy is they're too weak. and so this group, this republicans who believe in that fantasy world, he's still going to have to do it. do you think that's part of it, it's a state of unreality and they don't care if it just destroys their party. >> yeah, you know brenden is right this has been in the making for over a decade. i was up on the hill when the tea party movement swooped in and there was frustration back then because that group didn't understand how to govern. they were idelogs and were there really to just, you know, push

being the party of no. but when it came to down to how washington actually works, they were uninterested in that, and a lot of them lost re-election until trump came in and gave them all a license. now it's not about governing but being professional trolls. the fact kevin mccarthy has been so desperate to be speaker for years and years and everyone knows that, that's a position of weakness from the very beginning. when has being so desperate led to someone being an effective leader? so the fact he's already started off in a position of political weakness told me over a year ago that he would never be speaker. i've been saying this for a year and a half. and the people who are out here trolling him, the matt gaetz and boberts and these freedom caucus guys now empowered, they're really been running the show for years. kevin mccarthy has no spine. he hasn't stood up to anyone

ever including donald trump an insurrection where he almost lost his life and other members of congress did. there was a violent insurrection, and he kowtowed to that. when you have someone that desperate these guys are like political nihilists. he seems to get off and enjoy this humiliation because that's what's continuing here. what suffers, our democracy suffers. let's not forget the people being elevated right now as leading this group and given all this airtime lauren bobert and matt gaetz, scott perry, these guys were the leaders of the clue caucus and election deniers and they're being elevated and given a platform as if they're normal political actors. we need to be careful who these people are and what they're doing here and not calling them out for what they really stand

for. and become an anti-demic proauthoritarian, pro insurrectionists chaos group of people with a person who doesn't have a spine like kevin mccarthy. >> if he'd be strong enough to expel anyone engaged in the insurrection he wouldn't be in this position because none of them would be in congress. their plan is to keep switching from alternative to alternative. they first tried to go with jim jordan but jim jordan is in with mccarthy. and today they went a black guy with chip roy standing up and saying all things about martin luther king quotes and some of them were saying things about frederick douglas. this to me felt like a full troll and this guy was willing to go along with it. maybe they'll have a whole new theme of a person that's not kevin mccarthy.

in your view having worked for a speaker is there an altrnative plan that whatever normies are left, maybe the one or two left in the republican party in the house could come up with to end this? >> yeah, i'm actually excited who they pick tomorrow. what they are showing is that this is an anti-kevin vote. it's not about anybody else and it's not actually a bad strategy for them. their strategy is not to have an alternative because they don't necessarily want a choice. they just want to embarrass kevin mccarthy until he taps out. and he's said he's going to dig in as long as it takes. the question is are the rest of the members willing to dig in as long as they want to? the problem is you're dealing some people who don't really bow to peer pressure because they don't really care what their colleagues think, and they love this. they love being on this stage. they love that we're talking about them.

the freedom caucus said they organized around conservative principles in the house and more than anything they organize around being relevant. and right now they're being relevant. in some ways i don't think there's anything kevin mccarthy could have done. i've been around this for so long, looking at this moment right now it just kinds of feels inevitable. at some point this was going to happen, this conflict was going to happen. and we dealt with it during the boehner years and rhiner years. and we had much more difficulties with the freedom caucus than kevin mccarthy did. for the last four years has tried to be allies of freedom caucus and this is how he's being rewarded at this point. so it doesn't really matter to me, doesn't look like any particular way you could put it. they were coming out for a scalp and they seem to be following through right now. >> really quickly here's the difference from that era. the difference then you didn't have donald trump and social media and this entire ecosystem

on the right-wing elevating these people for being these nihilists. people getting kicked off the committee they wore that with a badge of valor. marjorie taylor greene she's going to be rewarded with it, so these guys see this as a way it's not about governing, not about policy or the american people or the constitution. it is about their own personal agendas, and they're being rewarded for it. and that is the problem here. you have to play the game you're in, and these people are playing a game very dangerous for our democracy, number one, but number two, a game they're shameless. the only way to pay a price is if they're excoriated, and none of them have stood up to them. they've now turned on donald trump, their leader. you can't control the timing.

>> the one things republicans haven't tried is go to the democrats. you do have hakeem jeffreys six votes away from being speaker. i do doubt there's six republicans who vote for him, but is there any talk on the hill some of these republicans saying forget mccarthy, cut a deal with the democrats? >> there's some republicans who floated it but no indication this is a serious idea. tom cole who has a reputation for being an institutionalist told me flatly a few hours ago this is off the table. that they're closer, he said the polarization is too much, and i think that tells you about all you need to know because this ends of one of two ways. if it's not mccarthy, it'll be someone else. somebody gives these speakers

what they want. whichever side caves first i think that's what it comes down to. >> and they have a high tolerance for pain for the american people because they really don't care. they'll get re-elected no matter what they do because of their district. thank you all very much. up next on the reid out, kevin's nightmare. the anti-mccarthy fringe has a long wish list and donald trump's endorsement is now meaningless. "the reid out" continues after this. reid out" continues after this pretty bad. try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin. the only brand with real honeyand elderberry.

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notoriety. that's what it is. they think they're not going to get the committees. obviously they won't, but it's going to be so much worse than that. they are enemies now.

they have made it clear that they prefer a democrat agenda than a republican one. >> the republican party is finally learning that you reap what you sow. for nearly 15 years with the on set of the tea party movement that birthed the house freedom caucus and now with the rise of maga extremists, control of the party is firmly in the hands of some of its most unhinged radical members interested only in chaos and notoriety for themselves. it is so surprise that the 20 republicans who are holding firm against kevin mccarthy becoming speaker include 19 either member of the house freedom caucus or recently endorsed by its campaign arm. congressman scott perry is the chairman of the house freedom caucus. 12 of them explicitly denied the results of the 2020 election. 14 of the 15 incumbents voted to overturn those electoral college results. by the way, so did kevin mccarthy. and why 17 of these radicals were endorsed by donald trump in 2022 his support for mccarthy

has done nothing to persuade them. congressman matt gaetz, andy biggs and scott perry reportedly asked trump for pardons. gaetz related to an ongoing federal sex trafficking investigation, and biggs and perry for their roles in the insurrection at the capitol. biggs and perry also among those referred to the january 6th committee to the house ethics committee for defying its subpoenas, the same house ethics committee mccarthy has agreed to gut if he's made speaker. and let's not forget paul gosar and his own family, his own siblings call him a white supremacist. joining me now mark lebovic and stewart stevens. to you, i'm going to start with you at the table, mark, because there isn't -- let me first of all read you a tweet that i

think the truest thing ever said in republican politics in the last decade and from senator lindsey graham. he said if you nominate trump we'll get destroyed and we'll deserve it. the tea party started i believe the descent into this kind of politics. this is the insurrection mob that's now formed an insurrection against kevin mccarthy. >> yes, it is a mob. it is kind of organized around a mob principle which doesn't have a rhyme or reason to it but also a mob that empowers individuals within the mob to try to, you know, who make as much noise as possible. matt gaetz trying to yell louder or andy biggs trying to yell louder than marjorie taylor greene. you have what's worse than a mob. spreading poisons in a number of

different ways that certainly someone like kevin mccarthy can't control. that's what you have now. the irony or fittingness of this is that it's coming back to bite the republicans who enabled it throughout. this is i guess in some ways predictable but also fascinating to watch. >> fascinating to watch like "the walking dead." it's one of my favorite shows, the walking dead, but once some zombies get in and bite some folks, everyone becomes a zombie. one by one they go. and soon you're in a room full of zombies and you can't get out of the warehouse, but i feel that's where kefb kevin mccarthy is. >> i like that analogy. i really think if we look at it just as sort of the crazies over here and the sane people over here, we're looking at it

incorrectly. they are all zombies when crenshaw gets up there and says we're only interested in attention, this is a guy who backed donald trump for president. very few of these people in the same portion of the republican party sitting in that house will assert that the president of the united states or the congress in which they served was legally elected. i mean, just think about that. that's how far they've moved where the normal line is. so the crazies are over here. and when you do that, we used to say this in politics all the time, you only stand for election, you don't stand for anything. and the reason they can't unify these people is they have no unifying governing principle. they don't stand for anything except power. so you can't get up there and make a plea like this is really going to hurt our dedication to smaller government. they don't believe in smaller government. this is really going to reduce

freedom to -- half these people support putin. so when the party is just collapsed, and this is all playing itself out, and if anybody thinks this party is worth saving, this is just proof that it's a fantasy. >> again, it's the zombie analogy, right? at a certain point you have to lock the barn because everyone in there is a zombie. the reality is back in the day, the olden days, the speaker it's part of their job to raise money which is why putting forward these newbies like the guy from florida is ridiculous because part of the job is to raise money and distribute it. kevin mccarthy did that. he gave money to just about all of the people now standing in his way, and the people like lauren bobert barely got re-elected, she's got elected by like 400 votes. but for kevin some of these people would have had money troubles, so it doesn't matter he gave money. marcus, to you, none of the old things -- the old practices of the politics work anymore in the

republican party writ large not just these people. so what happens next? >> well, i mean it's not just only just the reward sort of system. it's people used to come to congress wanting to gain the respect of their peers. they wanted to get committee assignments. they wanted to, you know, pass bills. that seems so quaint now in retrospect, and i guess i would -- i agree with stewart but i also quibble with the word power. republicans have power. is the party worth saving sphyou could argue not in its current form, but they also have power. they're deemed worth saving enough for enough people in the country to vote for members of congress and members of the senate with r's next to their name. you know, power doesn't really matter if you define power for by your ability to get on fox, get on bright bart or whatever.

>> we can all eat popcorn and enjoy the pierling mess until we have a national security crisis, until there's a hurricane that needs funding in florida or louisiana, or until there's a national security problem or until ukraine comes up for its next round of funding, and this same group says no or we need to do the debt ceiling. so i mean the challenge is that it has to be fixed at some point because of that. so in your mind is there an -- outside congress because they can go outside congress. it doesn't have to be someone inside. can you think of anyone outside of congress who's a republican, a conservative, that could be nominated and become speaker? >> no, i can't. because that person would have to we able to unify people who can't agree on anything. i -- look, we do have a national security crisis where all of those problems you mentioned is going on in some way or another. this is where you have to give credit i think to the biden

administration on what they've been able to do. think about it they're basically out there putting together a coalition to save the world, the free world with ukraine. they -- they passed an infrastructure bill. they actually got stuff done, and it's incredibly difficult to do that when you have people who don't even think you're president -- >> oh, no, some of them think he's a hologram. some of them think he's not even real. >> so, look, i think that where we are now is when people that want to save the republican party for what it is, they have to sort of come to grips with reality and have to be willing to vote for democrats who may disagree with them on certain issues because otherwise this insanity is going to continue. it is only going to stop when they feel pain, and pain is loss in politics. you have to beat these people.

you can't convert them, can't speak logic to them in that sense because they don't care about anything so these are people that you have to just burn this to the ground. >> well, i mean i think the good news for america is i think they're going to do that by themselves the next two years. they're not going to be ledge s slating but doingmorally of this act for two years leaving biden free for two years the govern meaning this case is going to be pretty stark. thank you both very much. still ahead the real head scratcher in all of this kevin mccarthy has been the republican far rights greatest enabler for years so why do they hate him so much? we'll be right back. o they hateo much we'll be right back.

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for nearly two decades the republican party has been held hostage by a group of mercenaries. over the years their power has grown stronger, not weaker. today in the wake of a trump presidency they continued to show that they pledge allegiance to no one, and they will not be badgered into submission and they have proved this remains onungovernable congressional party. and there's marjorie taylor greene who's proven something else, that there is a brand of political arsonist who is willing to sellout to the establishment whether it's cozying up to the president of the united states even to the point of qanon forces to ovturn

election laws or allying herself with a man who is pneummareically incapable of becoming speaker of the house in exchange not for some grand conservative principle but for power for herself, for committee assignments. in short this experiment has proven that this former literal troll turned congresswoman has only one kind of maga principle, an unslakable thirst for power. joining me now the former chair to the house january committee. you tweeted earlier something that got us to bug you to on tonight. you tweeted the irony of this was stunning. you can't always be the outside spoon with crazy. i feel like that needs to be on a t-shirt. i mean talk about this because the thing about it is -- it's a good line. and if i steal it, don't sue me.

it'll be on a shirt. the thing so wild about it is that kevin mccarthy went out of his way to let the insureckests off the hook. he himself voted against certifying the arizona electors. he participated and he enabled them. it got him nothing. how do you read all this? >> it's like i used to be a bouncer for my dad's bar and i remember he would look at me and say as i was guarding the door, hey, son, i don't know we should let that guy in, he looks like he's one scoop short of a sundae. i think you have a lot of people one scoop short of a sundae are making decisions in congress right now. i don't know if you can blame the congresswoman specifically but you also have to look at the voters. i'm a republican, right, i was a republican. i had to deal with this. and what i'm saying there are fund-raising e-mails going

outright now, joy, from those 20 individuals trying to raise money on the fact they're somehow like holding onto this mantle of decency. what you have here is really a combination of the base and individuals who want power and tv time, and that's why you're seeing the crazy in congress right now. >> i like you said that because we always trying to make it sound like members of congress exist in a vacuum. people are voting for them, and the republican voters at some point stopped wanting actual policy and stopped wanting things out of washington. they just want the theater of owning the libs, and so they are doing what their base apparently wants because they got elected doing it. there's a group of 26 conservatives who put out a letter backing this, and it's not regular joe average voters. it's people like ginni thomas, people like mitchell who helped in the insurrection, jen a beth martin, the co-founder of the

tea party patriots who was at the stop the steal rally, brent bozel, this guy who does this right-wing media research thing. ed miess, so there's a group of people serious right-wing people backing this effort. what do you make of that? >> they still think, you know, they have this sort of permission even though they are election deniers, maybe helped in planning. look at mitchell and ginni thomas, it's just incredible they have no shame going out there to go against mccarthy, no shame. and it shows that we have a diseased system. the issue is you have this, you've got people out there still getting stop the steal

adherence. at this point do we take them seriously and well, we have to because the base takes them seriously. and if they're using this hyperbole and outrage and this idiotic country fried crazety to do this, a lot of it is coming from the base. to somehow dismiss them or minimize them i think is a humongous mistake. >> are there enough of what used to be norm core republican voters who want something -- are there enough of those voters left in the republican base to form something else because i know there have been some republicans who were trying to ease out of the party. it just feels like a third party is so hard to form and get enough support for. is this what the republican party is until it basically dies? >> this is what it is but it isn't going to die.

i would say, no, there's not enough voters and i think a third party right now would be great. but i think the crazies are looking for a split and i don't think it's going to be difficult for a third party right now. >> it's a wild world we live in. thank you for being here, and thank you for let me use your great saying on a t-shirt one day. >> can't be the outside spoon with crazy. >> your name should be on the shirt if somebody makes it. thank you very much. cheers. up next, if all this drama has you wondering how hard can it be to become speaker of the house, pay attention, kevin. nancy pelosi is going to show you how it's done. back in a seconds. is going to you ho w it's done. back in a seconds. hey, man. nice pace! clearly, you're a safe driver. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance... ...so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] whoo! we gotta go again.

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this has been an extremely embarrassing time for kevin mccarthy especially when you compare him to speaker nancy pelosi who will go down as one of america's greatest speakers and who managed throughout her speakership dating back to 2007 to wrangle a group of lawmakers, the democrats, who are far more racially and ideologically diverse than the most almost solidly white christian and overwhelmingly male republicans. for example, when democrats became the majority in 2018 pelosi was facing democrats who had won seats in part by promising to not support her for speaker. 16 democrats publicly came out against her, and when house democrats held their nominating election, 32 voted against her in a secret ballot. but nancy pelosi being nancy pelosi she was able to flip

enough democrats using the thing that makes a speaker a good speaker, persuasion, so that by the time the vote got to the floor, she was able to marshal 220 votes losing just 15 of her colleagues. as she said in a new documentary, quote, if i didn't know i had the votes, i wouldn't be running. in 2021 democrats had a much narrower margin, and pelosi was still able to unite most of the party into voting for her for speaker. ironically kevin mccarthy at the time won every republican vote on the floor, but he still lost to her. today the democrats were what you might call delivering hand picked votes to hakeem jeffreys of new york. joining me now is congressman -- i know he's been sworn in. but congressman, let's talk

about that difference because speaker pelosi, it's not as if she's never had opposition, but she's actually good at the job. this mess you're seeing on the other side of the aisle, what do you make of it? >> good to be with you, joy. good evening. i certainly agree with you speaker pelosi's skills are unmatched but the salient difference between the two respective parties in the house of representativeicize clear to me we have shared values that ultimately resonate with the vast majority of the american team and we're committed to governing. it is why we're unified and focused on ultimately doing what we need to do. unfortunately the republican caucus is not. they're disinterested and incapable of governing, and we have seen that on full display over the course of the last 48 hours and the prondescented moment we find ourselves in as you've articulated in which the house of representatives has not organized for the first time in a century. it's a sad day for the country, sad day for the house of representatives as in my view as

an institution. i hope the republicans can get their act together and we can get to the business of governing for the good of the american people. >> what's really amazing is historically the house and senate has been all white guys. they were demographically similar enough and not that far in ideas they could tip o'neal it out. the democrats have been described as the tower of babel or herd of cats. it's such a diverse party. every race, every sexual identity, everything is in the democratic party and yet as you said there's some shared values there. republicans are not that far apart. they either want to gut social security or get rid of it. that's the

i screwed up. mhm. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that? you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze-- ladies, please! you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. today, amid the republican that and the paycheck.

health fiasco, president biden made a trip to kentucky, where she was joined by the republican senate leader, mitch mcconnell, to tout the democrats trillion dollar infrastructure bill. picks, or did not happen. there you have. it biden and mcconnell, shaking hands. the rare joint contingent, gathered in front of the -- it's a dilapidated bridge and connects ohio and kentucky, is a dangerous, one to. the scene of traffic jams and like the republican party deemed functionally obsolete. the biden infrastructure deal, supported by 19 republican

senators, including, mcconnell will change. shot allocating more than 1.6 billion dollars to improve the bridge. mcconnell called the funding a legislative miracle. >> we all know these are really partisan times, but always fear that no matter who is elected, once it's all over, we can aground things, and try to do those. >> mitch, what? who sent out of those words when trump was president? who said not too long ago that 100% of his focus was on stopping this new administration, not a building bridges. which may explain why kentucky is among the poorest in hungriest states in the country, despite having arguably the most powerful single senator, because of the obstructionist, hyperpartisan way mitch mcconnell has chosen to govern. especially, since the days when joe biden was vice president, to a guy named barack obama. and yet, president biden chose simply -- to praise his old enemy at the

podium. >> later mcconnell, we don't agree on everything, in fact the disgruntled of things. but here's what matters, he is a man of his word. he's willing to find common ground to get things done for the country. >> man just can't stop biden-ing, vice president harris, and buttigieg visited the bridge today as well, in illinois and connecticut. action in the face of so much inaction in the face of republicans. it's a jarring split screen of america, house republicans embroiled in a historic value to pick a speaker, what president biden and the democrats are out there governing. but the chaos on the house floor signals the even more joy in reality, that the next two years will be -- with the president having to frequently act alone to get anything done. it's another reminder of every single election is very high stakes. that is tonight's read out, the house is getting to reconvene, and that is next on all in with chris hayes. chris hayes.