leaves there, it could mean that his grip on the party is weakening. he still does have significant sway among republican voters. there's plenty of time left in the 2020 presidential election. definitely an interesting dynamic yesterday, seeing lauren boebert take to the floor. >> true early to know if it's a true misstep from trump, another since he announced his campaign. it certainly looked like it could be. congressional reporter for the hill, thank you for joining us today, and we have a lot to get to. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early." "morning joe" starts right now. it's embarrassing for the country. i mean, literally. you know, to have a congress that can't function is embarrassing. we're the greatest nation until the world, how can that be?

>> and the republican party looks like an embarrassment right now. the 20 that are doing this, they have done a good job. they need to keep talking, and then they need to do what every single successful person does, you take your deal, you take your win, you take your victory lap, and let's move on, and let's get on with business. >> wow, rare agreement between president biden and republican congresswoman marjorie taylor greene. both labeling the mutiny among the house republicans as embarrassing. this morning, there is still no speaker of the house. welcome to "morning joe," it's thursday, january 5th. along with joe, willie, and me we have congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post", jackie alemany, sam stein, the founder of the bulwark, charlie sykes, and white house bureau chief at

"politico," jonathan lemire. still no speaker. i feel like what we saw yesterday, and we'll talk about that and show members of congress speaking on the floor but we're beginning to really see trump's irrelevance play out. secondly, no speaker new york city swearing in, no house right now. is it beyond embarrassing? is there a danger to this? >> there's a danger for the republican party, and it really underlines what a lot of people already thought about the republican party, the most important voters in america, the swing voters, independents, former republicans in suburbs in places like atlanta, and philadelphia, people who were republicans their whole life who say this party is whacked out. i can't vote for them anymore. they're surrounded by insurrectionists, weirdos and freaks. there's a great danger for republicans. as far as the rest of the country goes, this too will pass

as my mother always said. you know, there have been some house -- u.s. house sessions that have started. like, for instance in the '70s and '80s would start in the middle of january. there are some in this decade that started in, you know, the 8th, the 9th, the 10th, it's early in january. that's not the problem. i will say i spoke with a foreign leader yesterday who said what in the world is going on. i said, baby, this is democracy. you don't have to worry about it where you are. but we worry about it, and this actually works. it's messy, it's one of the reasons we have survived for 230, 240 years. sometimes it gets ugly, but we air our grievances in public, and very transparent.

this is good. i think, willie, i think this is good for americans to see. there's no harm for, you know, americans. there's no harm for american democracy. now, let's be very clear about it. when you have the "wall street journal" editorial page leading for a second day criticizing these republicans, these insurrectionists and others saying who's crazy enough to be speaker, and they're writing the problem with any gop leader facing today is that junior republicans don't really want to hold key political power. they're much more comfortable in opposition to the minority which is easier because no hard decisions are compromises are necessary. you can rage against the swamp without having to fix it. that is an overgeneralization. there are members that are interested in significant rule changes. we'll be talking to some of those throughout the day. still, this is not bad for america in the long run, but certainly damaging to the

republican brand. >> a few things strike you. we are exactly this morning where we were when we sat here yesterday morning at 6:00 a.m., which is nowhere. just three more votes, three more times, kevin mccarthy didn't clear the 218 hurdle. he's negotiating behind the scenes: it also strikes you now how spilling out into public is the disdain and the contempt that some members of the republican caucus have for these 20 others and apparently have had for some time. you have someone like congressman dan crenshaw of texas calling them losers and enemies and clowns and everything else and saying they are making us look bad in public, and then as mika referred to earlier, the influence of donald trump is just not there. it's background noise at this point. he's putting out statements on his down market social media site trying to exert some influence. you have people like lauren boebert going on and saying, yes, he's my favorite president but i don't care what he says right now, i'm not voting for

kevin mccarthy. there's a lot at play here right now. >> you know, willie, it's interesting that yesterday when jonathan lemire gave us the information, and by the way, we're going to talk about jonathan about the denver signing in boston. something for he and barnicle to smile about. but yesterday when jonathan gave the breaking news that donald trump had posted on truth social, that people should support mccarthy, let's take the win. let's move forward. i will say, proving once again, i'm always wrong about donald trump, proving that once again when carvel said it's not going to make a difference, he's done. i was like, well, i'm not so sure about that, and sure enough. i mean, lauren boebert goes on the floor and basically says, no, not going to listen to you.

other of the most maga members actually tweeting things that mock donald trump. this is -- and again, and we'll talk to charlie about this in a second, because charlie knows this. this doesn't just happen in a vacuum. it's not like lauren boebert and other republicans said, well, today, i am going to show courage. i'm going to separate myself from donald trump regardless of what my voters think. no, this is happening because the voters aren't calling like they did in the past. you follow donald trump. willie, those calls are not coming because republican rank and file members in the end understand it is donald trump that has put them in this place. >> yeah, and some of the members like you just said who have been the most loyal to donald trump, foot soldiers pushing every conspiracy theory he wanted pushed going along for the ride tweeting back at him and saying sad was the quote from one

member to donald trump about his lack of influence on this process. he is really been pushed to the wayside jonathan lemire in this instance, anyway, doesn't mean he doesn't have influence on the party, but they're just not listening to him. he has said more clearly than he said a couple of days ago, kevin mccarthy is the guy, some of these other people low temperature their day, but it's not now. vote for kevin, and six times, 19, 20 members have gone out and said we're not doing it. >> a couple of republicans were struck. they think this is the first time that the word loser is being attached to trump. he's on a losing streak in terms of elections but it's this one, the 2022 midterms is the first time where he's really being blamed. you cost us stuff. it was your candidates who have gone down to defeat the chaos you created and his evolution is interesting on mccarthy, where, you know, mccarthy begged for forgiveness after january 6th. trump dangled the endorsement. finally came in lukewarm, but in

recent weeks picked up was on the phone, mccarthy should be our guy, and yesterday with the truth social post, have down market saying look, he should be speaker, it's time to take the win, set aside the fighting. he said to republicans, look, we need to come to a deal, but he didn't talk about mccarthy. so again, he seems to be backing off a little bit here. afraid, perhaps, of being associated with another failed effort, even as mccarthy's allies think they are making progress. it's been a debacle. and trump's contributed to it, and it shows at least for the moment his grip on the republican party, even among his most fervent acolytes has weakened. >> and charlie sykes, talk about that, if you will, again, it used to mean a call from donald trump, a tweet from donald trump would send republican members scurrying, people afraid of their own shadows, some talking tough, tweeting back at him, as rush limbaugh would say, putting their manhood in a lock box for six years for donald trump, now

they're puffing their chests and tweeting back at him which is of course very funny indeed. >> this is really extraordinary when you listen to lauren boebert. donald trump is not irrelevant but he's clearly, and rather dramatically diminished. he still has the power to destroy, but apparently he did not have the power to save kevin mccarthy. and i think that was on display yesterday. look, what lauren boebert and the other insurrectionists understand is that with donald trump there are red lines. you cannot across them. you can't say that he, you know, he lost the election. but apparently despite this full-throated support for kevin mccarthy, this is not a red line for donald trump. and they feel free to go their own way. now, look, kevin mccarthy can still pull this out. apparently he's continuing his surrender tour. he has put virtually everything

in a lock box right now. he's given up everything. he's basically said, i will be a complete hostage to every crazy in my caucus, and there are a lot of crazies in the caucus on both sides of the particular issue. but the chaos is going to continue. this congress will continue the way it began, whoever becomes speaker will be the mayor of crazy town. donald trump will continue to throw his weight around. this is a remarkable moment. as jonathan said, you know, the one thing that donald trump fears the most is to be considered a loser. and that label is sticking to him, and he also fears being irrelevant and that was really on display yesterday. >> and of course he was the biggest loser during the 2022 election cycle. he tried to spin it as a win, but as only trump can do, he then stepped on his own lead by blaming pro life republicans for the loss.

so that's what you get. probably not the best move, and then follow that up with an endorsement of kevin mccarthy, which of course is going to amount most likely to another loss. certainly he lost control over some of the most maga inspired members, and sam stein, you have some new polls out today that suggest his support inside the republican party is slipping from pretty high heightings. >> yeah, i mean, it just numerically underscores exactly what we're talking about, the morning consult poll looks at favorable opinions of trump. you can see on the screen there, dipping significantly since december 28th. down 8 points, this is just among republican voters. the unfavorability up similarly by eight points. people might look at that, 76-23, not so bad, when you're supposed to be the primary figure, the leader of the republican party having a quarter of your party have an unfavorable view of you is not so great actually.

it doesn't mean trump is powerless. he clearly still would have to be one of the favorites to win the republican nomination. but, you know, what i'm struck by and this word has been used a couple of times is just the diminished element of his stature here. he's in mar-a-lago. he doesn't do anything in public anymore. he launched a presidential campaign, and kind of went quiet. the main thing we know is he had dinner with a white nationalist and holocaust denier. a few media appearances here and there, but the ubiquity of trump was his power to some degree, both on the 2016 campaign and in the white house. now that he doesn't have that ubiquity, i think a lot of these members don't feel any pressure to bow to his interests. now, we did talk, i'll be quick here, our colleague meredith mcgraw at "politico" talked to people about why he's not going in fuller to mccarthy, he's a little gun shy. they don't want to come out for

someone who may not end up winning the speakership and look like they have endorsed someone again who falls short, and they say, look, he could go further in. he could start attacking the 20 who are not for mccarthy and really put his weight behind this. but he's playing it safe for now. and i think that says a lot about his current status in the party. >> well, and also, mika, i have been hearing for the past several days he made calls to these members. trying to move them. it became clear to him, became apparent in the phone calls, they weren't going to be moved by his personal phone calls, and pleas. he put out the statement, and realized he wasn't going to be persuasive getting these members off the protest. >> talking about the ubiquity of

trump, he was everywhere, holding rallies on television. we barely see him, and there's perhaps a mounting sense that he is just dealing with a lot of legal problems, there may be four, five different legal angles headed his way from the department of justice on down. and what what we're seeing, what trump has done to the republican party and you see them sort of feeling it in realtime. they seem so out of sync and their messages and their zings go nowhere. one member on the house floor talked about obama's jv team in the white house and kind of tried to make fun of the biden white house. well, cut to what the biden white house was doing that day at that time. joe biden was in kentucky shaking hands on stage with mitch mcconnell in a bipartisan event with several other republicans and democrats

celebrating infrastructure, celebrating a bridge which has such symbolism. >> and that bridge. >> that doesn't look like a jv team. >> the bridge that was falling apart, they did something for the people of kentucky and the people of ohio. and, you know, and that's what's happening. >> democrat, republican, democrat, republican, republican, democrat. >> it's really fascinating. i think the same member i'm thinking of, she accused the democrats of drinking alcohol. just bizarre, petty, which also, again, in the new era that we're in seemed so petty and so discordant with everything that's going on. can you imagine being a republican talking about rules changes, talking about transparency. and then sort of this trumpist type insult that, again, the

split screen could have been more important. >> that's quite a jv team. >> the jv team are the people that the "wall street journal" and other conservative outlets and fox news have been attacking. >> right. >> who's crazy enough to be speaker is the question the "wall street journal" asks today, and the jv team is actually on the house floor right now. >> absolutely. >> holding up everybody else. >> so let's go to capitol hill. jackie alemany is standing by. let's talk about what is going to happen today. do we have any idea in terms of deals that are being made or votes that are going to be had? what's on tap, jackie. >> yeah, mika, last night as we were waiting outside of congressman tom emer's office, there was a meeting between these hard line republicans who have been very much in the never kevin camp, matt gaetz, lauren

boebert, chip roy, meeting with people like brian fitzpatrick, and patrick mchenry and a handful of moderates and allies of kevin mccarthy, along with mccarthy himself and they were trying to hash out some sort of compromise to overcome this stalemate. emerging from this meeting, chip roy and scott perry appeared to be more open to a deal, and seemed to soften their approach to mccarthy and said that there was tremendous progress that was made, and while a vote did not happen last night per se and that mccarthy didn't make it over the finish line, and might not make it over the finish line again today that the talks were constructive. there is still this handful of five members who are really dug in, and are never kevin forever. matt gaetz, lauren boebert, bob good. but it is notable that tow you're seeing people like scott

perry and chip roy who are trying to get there who have spent the last few days maybe making some progress in obtaining some of these concessions which we have reported that mccarthy is open to lowering the threshold to start a motion to vacate to one member. it would only require one member to object to mccarthy's speakership to prompt a vote on the house floor so the chaos we have been seeing we could see a lot more if kevin mccarthy does become the speaker. these members might have more slots on the powerful house rules committee so they could dictate the processes and the way that some of what we're seeing happen in congress actually happens. but i think today we could finally see the other side fight back a little bit from mccarthy. these moderates have been vehemently against lowering the

threshold for the motion to vacate. they know how chaotic it could be. i'm curious to see, we're going to have a couple more it rations with the ballot failing and moderates are objecting because they do not want the rules to cause dysfunction. >> it appears mccarthy has given up more overnight. nbc news has learned kevin mccarthy has offered a series of new conditions to the house rules package and organizing structure, hoping to win over some of those extreme right wing members who remain opposed to him becoming speaker even though they said they would never vote for him. specifically here, republican congressman matt gaetz has agreed to one of the primary requests of the group. one is a provision that would allow any one member, a single member of the house to call for a vote to remove the speaker at any time. that of course is a risky concession for mccarthy because it could lead to a scenario where he constantly would be

thrown into a position where his leadership could be challenged. congressman gaetz said mccarthy also has agreed to place freedom caucus members on key committees like the rules committee which controls all traffic to the floor of the house. republican congressman patrick mchenry of north carolina has been part of the negotiations and confirms to nbc news mccarthy has offered a series of concessions to the group but refused to comment on the specifics, but after all of that, congressman gaetz says while he's happy with those concessions, it is still likely -- >> you cannot negotiate with these people. it's what we keep saying. you can't negotiate with them. you turn the plane over to them, willie. they're flying the plane for the next two years. you don't let them in the door. like you can negotiate with somebody like chip roy who's

talking about transparency, he's talking about giving us the bills, the big fat bills where you're spending billions of dollars, and give us five minutes to vote yes or no. give us those bills. let us look at those bills for 72 hours. i mean, i have been in that position, and leadership just shoves stuff down your throat because there's a lot of junk in there they know you'll vote against. that's reasonable and rational. there's five people who said they're never going to vote for him. so why is kevin making those concessions? >> and listen to what i just reported, kevin mccarthy has agreed to one member raising his or her hand and saying we want you out of here. he's basically given up his position and still after all of that matt gaetz told nbc news, i don't trust him so he doesn't have my vote. talking about kevin mccarthy. we asked for comment from mccarthy, he didn't respond. joe, what do you do with these guys. if you're kevin mccarthy, we're going to be here, we're going to vote again, negotiate a little bit. if they're saying we're not

going anywhere. if you have given up the store to them, given them everything you can give them, what do you do. >> run them over, and i say to the 201 people that are still with me. here's the deal, you have a fundamental choice to make, you can stay with me, whether it's 1:00 in the morning or 1:00 in the afternoon or 9:00 in the morning or 9:00 at night, one day, one week or one month, you need to stay with me. because we're going to have to roll these five people. if we don't, they're going to control our caucus for the next two years. and they're going to fly this conference and the entire republican party into the side of a cliff, and in so doing, they're going to help elect joe biden again in 2024. that's kevin mccarthy's

argument. >> say it's not about me. >> charlie, i'm so glad you said that. that's another mistake, one of many mistakes that kevin mccarthy has made. he's operated from a position of weakness for too long, and i will say, when i was in, well, you know, paul ryan helped us start a group called the new federalists. i'm not sure who came up with the goofy name, i'm going to blame that on sam brownback, if somebody said to us i will do anything in the world to be speaker of the house, we would immediately say, well, you're not going to get our votes because if it means that much to you, if it's about power, and it's not about balancing the budget, it's not about cutting taxes, it's not about cutting regulations, it's not about strengthening the country. it's not about making this country better and stronger and moving power to the states, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, if

you're saying it's about you, we're not going to vote for you. and kevin mccarthy, he has been obsessed with this for too long. and i know a lot of people say washington, d.c., it's all about power and gaining power, but if you want to understand the mind of these people that are voting against him right now, yeah, there's some insurrectionists and weirdos and freaks, there are a lot of people who actually believe what they say, and say what they believe, and kevin mccarthy to them seems to be a vacant, vacant member of congress. >> that's because he is. the train has left here. how pathetic is it that kevin mccarthy is surrendering to the people that on the one hand he is telling people are the crazies. look, joe, this is not a choice at this point between the crazies and the normies, between the bomb throwers and the grown ups because there are no grown

ups anymore. whatever happens here, these folks are going to be in control. they are going to be piloting the plane, to shift the transportation metaphor. kevin mccarthy has made it clear he's the ultimate hollow man, he will give up anything, he will make any concession. and so one of the things we need to understand here is that in this congress, this chaos is going to ramp up as a result of this because paul gosar can demand a vote on speakership. marjorie taylor greene is going to be empowered. george santos is going to be empowered. for the people saying these 20 are the crazies, well, look who kevin mccarthy is relying upon and empowering, and if, you know, in some alternative universe he manages to cut some deal, those gop no votes, they're going to be back into the circle, and they're going to

be running the crazy town. and john boehner warned about this. it destroyed paul ryan. now kevin mccarthy is coming in and basically saying i'm surrendering everything. i'm taking my manhood and i am, you know, putting it in a lock box, and i'm giving the key to lauren boebert and marjorie taylor greene, and louie gomert. how do people think this is going to work out in a positive way. and as much shotten freud we're all enjoying here, the fundamental business of governing, these folks are not interested in that and this is going to leave a lot of scars, and i think we have seen the pattern for the next two years. >> jackie as you approach another day, waiting to see what happens, we have mccarthy projecting confidence, at least

trying to, the club for growth came around. they support me. we cut a deal with them. he's smiling through the votes as he sits on the floor and loses six times now. is the republican caucus, is some of the leadership there prepared for the possibility they may have to poouf on from kevin mccarthy and find someone else? where is this headed? what changes the dynamic here? >> i have to say, i still feel like, and based on everything we have seen this week, there is no alternative to mccarthy, no one who can actually win. you know, even if trump, for example, put out there another consensus candidate, i think these hard liners are enjoying seeing mccarthy squirm and get as much out of this as they can. they also realize that if there is some sort of consensus candidate they're not going to get these concessions. at the same time, a consensus candidate i don't believe can win this race.

so i think we're going to see this battle and just continue and see three more iterations of these failed ballots for martha potentially we saw yesterday. i mean, even members, people like ken buck and others, mccarthy allies, pete sessions who have come out and said over the past few days, you know, mccarthy will get a few more tries, but then we need to try to pivot to someone else. they haven't suggested any alternatives. not many people want this job. as you noted, whoever gets this job at the end of the day, is going to have a very difficult two years ahead of the road. they're going to have a hard time legislating. and even if mccarthy gets it, there could potentially be, you know, attempts to oust him from the speakership every time the house comes to the floor for a vote. so we could have a breakthrough today but this also could go through the weekend and members, democrats and republicans are very prepared for that scenario to happen.

>> so i've heard steve scalise's name, and let me just say from what i know of steve scalise, from what i have seen of steve scalise, he's a guy that can work with democrats, very personable with nancy pelosi, and democratic leaders. doesn't play the games of oh, i have to be rude to actually get something done, at least in social settings, which of course is very important. charlie, one more time, i just got to go back to you, though, let's just talk as two former republicans. on just power politics. and i see ken buck talking, maybe we need to move on. pete sessions, a good friend i worked with in a past life, pete sessions say well, maybe we need to move on. at this point, it's a matter of

principle. whether i like kevin mccarthy or not, i can't let 1/10 of the caucus win. i got to stay with kevin mccarthy through a vote. they really are dealing with people, and hostage, there's no violence attached here. it's just useful. we use this, you know, when we're talking politics on the hill or not. you can't let five people or ten people hijack your caucus because if you do, whether you like mccarthy, you can't just say they win, let's move on to somebody else, because then they get their way. >> they're going to get their way. >> the 90% can't let the 10% get

their way or else they're owned by them for the next two years. >> well, they are owned by them, and the reality is the caucus has been taken hostage. look, keep in mind that one of the signature parts of the kevin mccarthy speakership will be to empower marjorie taylor greene and the qanon caucus. yeah, i agree with you, and obviously this is the line we're getting a lot of out of washington, you know, you cannot allow, you know, this 10% to dictate what's going on here. but also you have the mathematical problem. you know, they may say we have to stick with kevin mccarthy, but if there are those five no votes, what do you do? you can play this game for a very long time. at some point you have to move on. look, there are no good scenarios here. and i don't necessarily think having kevin mccarthy on his knees making one surrender, one

grovel after another to these folks is, you know, in order to get the speakership is somehow going to solve the problem. i mean, to a certain extent, we have already seen what this hostage situation looks like, and kevin mccarthy may be one of the last people in congress who is able to stand up against this hostage situation. he has no interest in doing so. i just, again, to repeat myself to go back to what john boehner said, you know, this is the chaos caucus. he has empowered the chaos caucus, he's in bed with the chaos caucus, the mayor of crazy town, and you know, republicans are going to have to decide where they go. again, they made this decision a long time ago. day decided that they were going to embrace these people, go along with these people, they were going to promote these people and look where it got them. "wall street journal" is like

where did these people come from. where have you been the last seven years. >> how did they not see this come something. >> who is crazy enough to be speaker? it's a great question, and we'll see what happens. >> charlie sykes, thank you for your analysis this morning, and "the washington post," jackie alemany, thank you as well for your reporting. we'll see you once again real soon. >> and still ahead on "morning joe," much more on the speakership stalemate playing out on capitol hill. we'll be joined by two house republicans who are united behind kevin mccarthy. we'll also speak with a member o. freedom caucus who has voted against mccarthy during all six votes so far. we'll hear from him why. also this morning, buffalo bills safety damar hamlin is still in critical condition, but the team says he's showing signs of improvement. we'll get an update on his health. and we'll be joined by a hockey hall of famer who went through a

similar ordeal years ago. he suffered a cardiac event after getting hit in the chest with a buck. he'll be our guest later in the show. we'll be right back. right back.

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♪ acoustic soul music throughout ♪ ♪ acoustic soul music throughout ♪ when i got over there, the first thing he said is i need to be at the hospital with damar, and i shouldn't be coaching this game. and so that to me provides all the clarity, because there was no unprecedented is the word that gets thrown out a lot about this situation because that's what it is. but in that moment, he really showed he was -- that all of his focus was just on damar, and being there for him, being there for his family at the hospital, and at that point, i think everything turned in the direction it needed to trend and the right decisions were made there, but again, just the way

that i really felt sean mcdermott led in that moment. he was there for his players, he processed the right way, which was incredibly difficult and helped get to the solution we needed to get to. >> that is cincinnati bengals head coach zac taylor commending sean mcdermott after damar hamlin was taken off the field in an ambulance after suffering cardiac arrest. he remains in critical condition at the university of cincinnati medical center after his heart stopped during the game. there does appear to be some positive news. the bills announced he showed signs of improvement tuesday and overnight into yesterday adding he's expected to remain under intensive care as his medical team continues to monitor and treat them. not a lot of specific there but some hope at least. the team slowly returning to some normal football activity holding meetings and a walk through yesterday but did not hold any media availability.

we haven't heard from the players yet. they are expected to resume regular practice today ahead of this sunday's scheduled match up against the new england patriots. the bengals are scheduled to play sunday against the baltimore ravens. meanwhile, the nfl is considering its options for rescheduling the bills bengals game suspended monday night. so far no decision has been made and the slate of games remain unchanged. among the options is pushing back the start of the post season by a week to complete the game, which would eliminate the bye week between the conference championship games and the super bowl. other scenarios include playing the bills, bengals game and the nfc wild card games on the same weekend and pushing the start of the playoffs back by a week. perhaps the simplest options would be not to finish the game at all with playoff seeding being determined by win percentage. a lot of ways to go here, john. none of them are super easy. to push everything back by a week changes a lot. i don't think a lot of us would miss the bye week before the

super bowl but obviously focus completely on hamlin and his health. we haven't heard a lot from the hospitals. we haven't heard specifics from the bills, just that he's improving steadily. >> far less important is the schedule. i mean, they do have that -- super bowl is a fixed date. that's not going to move. they have the bye week they could play with if needed. there seemed to be reports, momentum building that they probably wouldn't play the game and hope the week 18 slate would sort out the playoff picture and this one would be left aside unfinished but of course the real focus here is on hamlin. a lot of questions remaining about the blood and lack of oxygen his brain would have received during the moments after cardiac arrest while receiving cpr there on the field. we know he received it a second time at the hospital when he arrived there at the medical center in cincinnati. not too far from the field, and then of course there's also, we haven't heard, willie, as you

said, we haven't heard from the bills, and one still has to wonder as their teammate and friend, their brother, still lies, you know, on ventilator in the hospital, how will they play a game this weekend. it's not just not finishing that bengals game but they have to play another one in a few days on sunday. it will be at home, and i imagine the buffalo crowd will be remarkable. that will be still a challenging moment. >> absolutely. sam stein, i know you were watching in game closely, and as shocked as anyone was watching it all happen, and seeing these scenes o. players kneeling here. it's hard to imagine a team being in a state of mind, this sunday, as john said, to play a football game, while damar hamlin lies in critical condition in cincinnati, but that is the plan for now anyway. >> yeah, i mean, i couldn't do it. it would be too much for me. athletes have a way of compartmentalizing that i simply don't possess, you know, when the hamlin -- when th injury

happened, my mind went to hank gathers the famous college basketball player in the country who collapsed on the court and died during his conference tournament. they cancelled the rest of that tournament and they went to the ncaa tournament as the top seed in their conference, and they played in the ncaa tournament. they somehow managed to get it together and feel their team and go out there and play. and they had an incredible run that year turning to the final eight, losing to unlv, the eventual champion. while i could never muster the courage and mental acuity to do something like that, it's not unprecedented. this is something that athletes have the ability to do. but i'm with you guys, it's just hard to see how you play a game knowing that someone who you've battled with week in and week out is still in an icu with an

uncertain future like that. >> of course they're going to dedicate this game, the entire scene in buffalo i imagine will be centered around damar hamlin, and perhaps the guys who have played sports, who use this as a rallying cry. let's play for damar. this is what he would want us to do. this is what we know how to do. let's go do it. >> no doubt, a real heavy burden will be with not only members o. bills but also the bengals, other people in the nfl. there's -- we await news from the hospital and let's hope it's good news. but without that good news, there's no doubt, there's just going to be a cloud hanging heavy over every player, over every coach, every member of every organization as we move into a playoff, move into playoffs for a season that was an extraordinarily exciting season, and that a lot of fans

were following and this game itself was supposed to be one of the highlights of the season, just like that. of course everybody understands just how insignificant the game is itself. >> absolutely. and coming up, ron desantis launched his second term as florida's governor this week saying his state is a quote refuge from woke ideology and liberal positions on national issues. but is that really the reason we're seeing a substantial amount of wealthy new york residents moving south? steve rattner has charts to explain the migration. "morning joe" will be right back. n the migration. "morning joe" will be right back

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grinded their citizens down, we in florida lifted our people up. [ applause ] when other states consign their people's freedom to the dust bin, florida stood strongly as freedom's lynch pin. when the world lost its mind, when common sense suddenly became an uncommon virtue, florida was a refuge of sanity, a citadel of freedom for our fellow americans and even for people around the world. >> well, willie, of course, historians will remember over the past four years when the rest of the united states went the way of north korea, but ron desantis went the way of 17 -- what's he talking about. freedom the dust bin, what's he talking about. what idiots, i won't ask what idiots actually believe that,

but he's so in a little bubble. like this is the republicans' problem, it's why they keep losing elections. they're in this little bubble. they're talking to each other. and for most americans when ron desantis says when the rest of the country consigned freedom to the dust bin of history, you're like, what's he talking about? is he talking about north korea? is he talking about putin's russia? oh, no, he's talking about california and texas and georgia and kentucky. i mean, how weird. again, it's just so bizarre what an echo chamber these people live in, and it's mind boggling to me they still haven't figured out this is why they keep losing elections. let's go back to 2012, mitt romney's team, they only listened to rush limbaugh,

watched fox news and read the dredge report and saw the gallop poll saying they were eleven points ahead, and they believed it. romney campaign going well this can't be right, i'm up by 11 points. no, you put yourself in a bubble. so it's just reinforced all of their preexisting notions. that's what's happened to this republican party since 2016. and so you have this, this is a guy that has a chance to be the next president of the united states. he doesn't have to act like a caricature of the republican party, but he's still trying to own the libs when owning the libs ends up costing republicans votes in election after election. >> governor desantis received the ultimate reinforcement on election day when he won by almost 20 points. that worked in the state of

florida. i'm going to keep doing it. that was governor desantis speaking at his second inaugural on tuesday of this week. >> good luck on taking that on the road. >> well, that's right. >> it's just not going to work. >> joining us former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner. good morning, it's good to see you. there is a connection here that people are fleeing the northeast, moving south to places like florida. why are they doing it? >> taxes are up there. we have new tax data recently from the irs that takes us through 2020, but it will give you a sense of what's going on in terms of people who make over a million dollars and are filing tax returns across these various states and what you can see on the chart is that the blue line is new york, and you can see new york's share, our share, my share of millionaire filers has gone down over the last ten years from roughly 13% to roughly 10%. and florida's share, which is

the red line has gone up and is, in fact, met new york. florida now has as many people with a million dollars or more of income filing tax returns in their state as new york has in theirs, the lines in effect have crossed. the lighter lines are california. california has a special benefit from the tech millionaires over this period, and texas, the lighter yellow line is essentially mirrored florida. here's sort of what's really interesting on the right side of the chart, which is what's happened to the average incomes of people who are filing in florida versus in new york. and so you can see the blue line is new york, and these are our average incomes as a percent of the average of the country, roughly 3.1 million back in 2013, roughly 3.4 million now, and new york has had millionaires who were wealthier than the average millionaire, roughly $3.9 million. but look at florida, look at that red line. florida went from average millionaires of $3.3 million a year of income back in 2013 all

the way up to $4.4 million of income today. so it shows you that the wealthiest people are moving to florida, leaving new york, and taking high incomes with us. why is this important? 1% of tax filers in new york, roughly 40,000 people in the city of new york pay 40% of new york's taxes and if those people leave that is a difficult situation for new york. >> so steve, let's go back. can we put the chart back up again, and can you explain for me, steve, what are we looking at on the left side, the millionaire's share, and is the top line california? >> the top line is california. what percent of millionaires does each state have. >> so let me ask you that, california, which everybody calls the socialist paradise, they've got a lot of millionaires, and what separates, let's say california

from new york, which now, by the way, has a smaller gdp than does texas, but what separates california from new york, illinois, new jersey, these states that are struggling so badly because they've all got high taxes. my god, taxes in california are outrageous. you know, you could be paying 55, 60% of your income to local, state, national taxes. so why is california remaining so high there? and how in the world do states like illinois and new york and new jersey that have such high taxes, how do they stop this money flight? >> so in california again, it's really the tech millionaires, california does as much as new york and illinois to push people out by raising taxes, i'm going to show you that on the next slide. they create so many millionaires, and indeed even growing somewhat. the solutions, and you can see

that on the next chart. let's look at the next chart, what you see on the left are the total tax burdens. people do pay, even in florida, some kinds of taxes. property taxes, sales taxes, there's a tax burden in florida and texas. you can see on the left in florida and texas, that tax burden is around 8% of income and it hasn't really moved over this period of time from 2019 to 2022. but you look on the right, and you see california and new york have both increased their taxes substantially over this period. new york's tax burden has gone from 14% to 16% of average income. but look what happens on the right, because of the nature of the taxes, because florida's taxes are regressive. everybody pays sales tax, property tax. you can see on the red line for the lowest income floridians, those are people in the bottom

20%, they pay about 12.7% of their income in these kinds of taxes. if you are in the top 1% in florida, you pay 2.3% of your income in taxes. in contrast, if you look at the blue line, which is new york, you can see it's stable. it's not progressive. it's not regressive. new yorkers way about 11.3% of their income in taxes. florida, in effect, has a tax policy designed to reward millionaires for going there at the expense of, one could say, the people at the bottom who are paying higher shares of income than they are in new york. people in florida at the bottom pay a higher share of income than people in new york at the bottom. >> that's fascinating. your final chart shows where people are going, you nengsed -- mentioned florida and texas, and idaho and montana, and places out west. >> i can't answer all of these questions. i can tell you things that are not going to be surprising given what we just talked about. this is 2020 to 2022.

we have population data for the past two years, we don't have income data. what you can see, again, not surprisingly, california, illinois, new york, rank among the bottom five states in terms of outward migration, people leaving. louisiana and west virginia also in that category. i can't tell you exactly what's going on in louisiana. on the flip side, you have florida and texas ranking near the top in terms of picking up people. there's also, and these are small numbers because they're small states people seem to be going to places like utah, montana, south dakota, and so forth. but the big trend is obviously from those big three high tax states down to those lower tax states, and it is a very scarey trend for those of us who live in new york. >> so the question is, steve, and illinois has been an economic basket case for a year.

maybe it doesn't help that most of their governors get sent to jail. what does illinois do. what does new york do? conservatives like me, cut your taxes. you need to cut taxes. you need to be competitive with the other states. of course i say that understanding it's just not that simple because obviously you've got massive budgets in new york. you have massive population in new york. we talk about a homeless problem in new york. we talk about the need for social programs for a lot of people in need. so how does -- can that balance be struck or is new york doomed to continue losing residents to florida and texas and idaho and wyoming, et cetera, et cetera. >> in a theoretical world, you could strike that balance, reform state and city government. we need to deal with the problems of the homeless, and we

provide a much better social safety net than many other states and i'm proud of that as a new yorker. you have to be realistic, we live in a competitive world, people are going to move around and live in places in part based on their taxes. and we have been increasing our taxes where states like florida have not been. we spend vastly more per resident than any other state in the country, and it may well be that the time has come for a harsher, tougher look at where we spend our money. unfortunately it's moving against us. right now you have a veto proof majority in the state assembly and the state senate, very very progressive democrat, governor hochul, whatever her intentions might be can't do much about it. at some point it gets so bad there has to be a fix, but right now, we are still heading in the wrong direction. >> yeah, and just confirming, we really showed ron desantis at the beginning. this trend, it doesn't have anything to do with the ron

desantis. this trend has been going for a very long time. it was expedited during covid, steve, was it not when people realized they didn't have to live in manhattan and work in an office building in manhattan, they could go to texas or florida or idaho and for a lot of their jobs, they could work there, pay less in taxes. >> live a better life. >> yeah, and i was only able to show you tax data through 2020, the one that came out now. when we get the tax data for 2021, 2022, i'll make the prediction on air, so you can get the tape if it's wrong. i think the data is going to be worse. >> steve rattner, thank you very much. it's three minutes past the top of the hour. let's get right to the top story, the house of representatives is set to vote again today on its next speaker after republicans failed to

unite around a single nominee for the second straight day, after three separate ballots on tuesday, all ended in no nominee receiving the 218 votes needed to be elected speaker. house lawmakers tried for a fourth, fifth and sixth time yesterday with no success. like on tuesday, a group of 20 republicans yesterday remained staunchly opposed to gop leader kevin mccarthy's bid for speaker. instead of nominating ohio's jim jordan like they did on the first day of the congress, the group of republican defectors, this time chose florida's byron donalds as their alternative to kevin mccarthy. >> he is respected. he is trusted. he is capable and he achieves results. byron has a big mind, and he's big in stature as well. he's very nice. by i will tell you this, in a negotiation, in a negotiation

with chuck schumer, i sure wouldn't want to be on the other side of byron donalds. >> following those three failed votes, the house voted to adjourn until 8:00 last nigh. once again, giving kevin mccarthy a chance to negotiate with his 20 centers. once 8:00 rolled around, it became clear to mccarthy that he still lacked the votes needed for speakership. democrats, however, voiced their opposition to the delays. they wanted to vote again forcing the clerk to call a vote on whether to have a vote. this caused more chaos on the house floor after some of those in favor of delaying the 7th speaker vote arrived late to cast their ballots. ultimately, though, the yea

votes won out putting us in the same situation this morning as we were yesterday. there's no speaker. all of those families are waiting to take pictures. >> jonathan lemire, they almost lost that vote as well. the four voted against, and it sthoed you -- showed you again just how tenuous this was going to be. that was a republican vote to adjourn. everybody on the republican side or democratic side usually always aligns and they don't want to turn the floor over to the democrats, to the other party, but last night, they had to rush the gavel. basically closing out the vote because they were about to lose even that vote last night. >> they had trouble filling a vote to have a vote. members literally sprinting on the house floor to get that done. it is emblematic of just how chaotic the scene has been.

people close to mccarthy are putting out stuff this morning, we made progress last night. club for growth is on board. we made concessions some of the hard liners suggested might be enough. they're trying to project momentum, and we could say things look a little bit better this morning than yesterday morning, but only a little. he's got a long way to go. he still doesn't have nearly enough votes yet. basically as one person close to the process put it to me, this keeps mccarthy alive. he's bought himself a little more time here to make another run at it, and they think this could be another couple of days, through the weekend. but at a certain point, you have to count the votes, and he doesn't have them. >> he gave away the bank to these people. last night he was ripping out the fixtures in the bathroom handing it to them, they still weren't happy with them. said they were gold plated and not, in fact, gold. even after he did that, they still said they were going to vote against him. it's going to be a long, messy

day. speaking of long and messy, it's been a long and nessy off season for the boston red sox. we have boston red sox fan sam stein and mike barnicle here, and let's also bring this in to endure along with mika, eddie glaude jr., another red sox fan, mark leibovich, "thank you for your servitude," a "new york times" best seller and frighteningly, frighteningly relevant to what's going on here. first, mike barnicle, you said you were able to sleep last night for the first time in a long time. tell us why. >> because the red sox finally got back into the major leagues. they joined major league baseball in awarding an 11 year contract to the best player, rafe devers. $331 million, and that finally

gave i think a lot of fans a sigh of relief that they were willing to spend a lot of money to retain one of the best players in the major leagues, and they did it. >> jonathan lemire, is all forgiven? >> of course not. not even close. but they had to do this. they had to do this, after trading away mookie betts, after letting xander bogaerts go, they had to do this. the red sox owner booed over the weekend at fenway park. >> i was there. >> a lot of fan anger right now at john henry and that ownership group. they simply had to. it's a good start, absolutely. a corner stone player, face of the franchise, they had to do it, but it's still been a pretty confounding off season, and there's hope for them should quell a little bit of the fan anger. they got a ways to go. >> sam stein, is all forgiven? >> no, i'm still angry over mookie betts, and it's been, what, three years now. can we undo that trade too?

is that possible to do that or not? >> they will never get over it. >> mark, you're a red sox fan as well. do you forgive them for mookie, for xander, for all the sins of the past? >> no, but i do think forgiveness is a good way to start the year. let's look at it as a clean slate and good news. we should be so lucky. i'm sorry. >> willie, apparently there's a need for grace inside the republican conference because there are republicans not happy with other republicans in their conference. >> yeah, these last couple of days have cracked open the party, and we've gotten a real look at some of the tensions that have been simmering for several years. dan crenshaw of texas has been vocal going after the group of 19 or 20 holding up the potential speakership of kevin mccarthy.

he said this yesterday about the group, that group of far right members standing in the way of kevin mccarthy. >> they keep coming up with more and more ridiculous reasons, i love the example of bob good, i think he's one of the worst members of our caucus, an absolute dud but he got up and he was mad at mccarthy because mccarthy took three weeks to call him after his election. can you believe that? mccarthy spent, by the way, about $2 million to get that loser elected because he couldn't get elected on his own. and lauren boebert insulted donald trump because trump supported mccarthy. she barely won her election. she's not good enough to win an r plus six or seven whatever that is. these members contribute nothing, nothing to our majority. they contribute nothing to the conservative movement. they don't write bills. they don't think about policy. they don't even know who thomas seoul is. they have never read anything

about conservative philosophy or thought. they have no opinions on how to fix social security or the budget. >> that's congressman dan crenshaw on guy benson's radio show yesterday, and i think he's speaking for a lot of members of the caucus right now. >> he's speaking for members in the caucus, and mark leibovich, speaking for a lot of members in conservative media whether it's the "wall street journal," the "new york post," a lot of the murdoch media, also, though, just rank and file republicans also who are looking at a group of people holding this up. there are some, and we're going to be talking to some of them. we specifically selected those who had good reasons for having concerns about kevin mccarthy. we're going to be speaking to them today, but for the most part, this is just deeply personal. it's deeply personal for all the reasons that you wrote about

kevin mccarthy in your book, that he's seen as an empty vessel and a guy so desperate to receive the speakership that he was willing to sacrifice one thing after another throughout his career, and just, again, just be totally reduced to servitude, talk about it. >> i mean, this is a situation that he in a way planned for. he planned for chaos, and he is getting chaos, and the whole caucus is getting chaos, and i think, you know, to some degree, he's operating in a system that looks somewhat, i mean, certainly from the outside ungovernable. what dan crenshaw just said about his colleagues, bob good, lauren boebert, go down the list. what he's talking about here is a congress, sort of certainly a big slice of the republican part of congress, where no one cares about the esteem of their colleagues. no one cares about committee assignments, no one cares about

getting respect, passing bills. you know, go down the list, the reward system was entirely defined by fox news, by social media, by getting attention, by getting the things that, you know, the matt gaetz of the world are getting now. in a way, you could see the building now. >> mark, can i just underline quickly and have you continue. it's also they don't care about ideas. a lot of them don't care about conservative ideas, they don't know anything about conservative ideas. if you ask them about edmond burke or russell kirk or buckley or reagan or thatcher, key points in their career, how the conservative movement grew into what it grew into, they would have no idea at all, but if they're seen at making a gesture that is offensive to liberals, that's insulting to opponents,

calling out the libs or media or whatever, that's a big win, and they define that. you look at a lot of these people and look at how much money they raise in small donations across the country, that's their measure for success and they raise a ton -- you just -- it's hard to believe how much money these people who don't pass any legislation ksz who worlgd now r -- who wouldn't know how to write a bill. it's a great industry. it doesn't win you elections nationwide. >> not even close. right now, they own kevin mccarthy. >> right. >> but i would argue, you could certainly make a case that matt gaetz, lauren boebert are probably on cloud nine because tv cameras are all around them. if you look at them on the floor, there's big crowds around them. probably begging them to come around, but it looks like

they're having a great time, especially matt gaetz, and i would be willing to bet they're all raising a ton of money, they're probably, you know, their communications people are probably going down lists of mega requests. so, i mean, again, we're seeing this, but what willie said earlier about the caucus or congress being cracked open, i agree. it's been cracked open for a while. january 6th was a cracking open and a mob rule. also a mob rule that's splintered where people like matt gaetz are empowered and you see situations like this. i don't see a resolution. it's not like you could talk, you know, lauren boebert on to your side if you're kevin mccarthy with a social security bill or policy position. this is what they bargained for. >> fascinating to see the irrelevance of donald trump in this process. we're going to get to that in a moment. lauren boebert pushing back against donald trump. let's go to capitol hill, where we find garrett haake. another day, another day of

votes, potentially for kevin mccarthy. is it going to be another day of failed votes for him? >> we're going to find out pretty soon whether there is enough, you know, meat on the bone that mccarthy can actually give away to move these 20 members or if it is purely personal. he put an offer on the table last night that should check off many of the boxes of kind of legitimate concerns if there are any among these 20 with things like reducing the threshold on this motion to vacate. get rid of the speaker to one vote. and the rules committee, that controls anything that might have a chance to go to the floor goes to the floor, and agreeing to stay out of some of these open safe republican primary battles in the future with his super pac. those have been the concerns that would reinforce the position of freedom caucus members, far right members. if they're serious about negotiating, he's giving them

basically everything they have asked for. whether that's enough to move anybody we'll find out in the early afternoon. those are the kind of specific requests that have been made. somebody like matt gaetz was very clear last night, he'll vote as long as it takes but never for that member. can we get closer to the four or five vote threshold, that's the key thing. all the movement yesterday was purely in the wrong direction. >> can you answer for our viewers something i have heard a lot the last couple of days, most people don't quite get, which is why does this group of 19 or 20 members of congress hate kevin mccarthy so much or do they not really hate him so much and they're just enjoying the attention and raising a bunch of money. >> it's a combination of both. the bigger thing is they don't trust him. to some of the far right members, they see mccarthy as, he portrays himself as a go along, get along guy. they see that as too far to get along, he's too willing to vote

for something like an ndaa, or giant spending bill. not fight hard enough to stop it. there are members in the far right group that would shut the government down on any one of a number of things that come before congress, be it debt ceiling votes and spending bills, and they want mccarthy to feel the same way. he goes, look, i feel how you feel. i'm fighting the same fight, and tries to talk strategically, they see that as untrustworthiness. that's not going to be good enough for some of them. they want a -- it just makes some of these people not trust him, and i don't know if that's ever fixable. >> not extreme enough. nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake with another busy day ahead. thank you so much. we appreciate it. congresswoman lauren boebert's name was invoked a couple of times. she won reelection in colorado

by the skin of her teeth. she was on the house floor after donald trump to whom she has pledged allegiance throughout her political career said again go vote for kevin mccarthy. here was her response on the floor. >> let's work together. let's stop with the campaign smears and tactics to get people to turn against us. even having my favorite president call us and tell us we need to knock this off. i think it actually needs to be reversed, the president needs to tell kevin mccarthy, sir, you do not have the votes and it's time to withdraw. >> kevin mccarthy is 200 votes, your side has 20. if i'm going to use your words and methodology and math, is it a time for you to pack it and your side to pack it in, considering he has over 200 and you have 20. >> i understand the frustration, i promise you.

>> i'm not frustrated, you didn't answer my question. >> we're hearing from many people voting with kevin mccarthy who are supportive of what we're doing and cheering us on. there are more for us than against us and they are waiting for kevin to change. >> i'm frustrated by you not answering a direct question. you said earlier today that president trump needs to tell kevin mccarthy -- >> and kevin mccarthy does not have the votes. >> hold it, can i finish? you don't have the votes and it's time to withdraw. >> a little intramural fighting. your take generally on what we have seen over the last couple of days, and also the waning influence of donald trump who is implored all of these people who as i said have bent the knee to him since they got into politics, totally ignoring him on the question of the vote.

>> it almost proves that james carville might have a prophetic sense, that trump's opinion wouldn't matter. i have been struck by the political anihilists having the power they have. when you think about who these people are, their relationship to january 6th. the fact that they hold power to decide who will be second in line to the presidency just blows my mind. i understand this is inside game, inside politics in terms of the house of representatives, it doesn't bode well in terms of our democracy. >> mark leibovich, do you encounter anyone in washington, d.c. who is worried about not just the next two days and who's going to be speaker. who's not going to be speaker but the next two months given the lack of governing ability we have seen from the majority party, the republican party in the house of representatives.

anybody you have encountered worrying about that? >> i wouldn't say genuinely. i think the people i have talked to seem to be sort of riveted by this. i mean, i think when you sort of scratch the surface, i mean, yes, it's sad. it's concerning because it does put the dysfunction on display in a way that, you know, is pretty extreme and dramatic, again, it's not necessarily a new story. this has been going on for a while, and even going back almost ten years ago when republicans started playing brinksmanship with the debt ceiling, i mean, this is, i mean, we have seen what certain elements of the republican party have been willing to do to bring, you know, the congress to a point like this. so in a way, this is kind of a version of that. but look, i think for the most part, people are viewing this as a spectator sport. what's happening to mccarthy, yes, i think in some ways he's a

very kind of collegial old school back slapping politician. on the other side, it's clear he's sold his soul for this and is now paying the price. to some degree it's a spectacle, and probably will be for the next few days, and when it comes to governing, that will be when, you know, they're put to the real test. whoever wins the speakership for the republican party, trying to keep this group somewhat together will be just like an incredible thing to watch. >> spectator sport, though, but certainly there are democrats, those in the white house who are deeply worried about what this means about having to govern down the road. the debt ceiling and trying to fund the government. those loom as propositions. we played the clip. when hannity got frustrated, he said she sounded like a liberal. tucker carlson very much backing

the rebels. we're seeing the split in the republican party among conservative voices and i want to get your analysis, a preview of the next two years, not just about the paralysis in the house but the sort of battle for the fight, the identity of the republican party as they try to govern, but also we have this contest, likely within the party, between trump, desantis and others for the presidential fight too. >> first of all, the anxiety you talked about in the white house, that seems like good fodder for the white house bureau chief to make a story out of for "politico".com. let's put a pin in that. secondly, to your point about right wing media echo chambers, i think this is kind of the understated element here. statistically sean hannity is right, 200 votes for mccarthy, and 20 votes against mccarthy. this is not really a close battle. what sustains those 20. it's having the ability to have

that right wing media echo chamber, and it's not just fox news. a lot of this is online, talk radio, say go on, go forth, challenge this guy for really not ideological reasons, sort of a matter of personality more than anything else, and we'll feed you with attention, lavish you with praise. we'll basically serve as a conduit for the grass roots donors in the conservative movement to puff up your campaigns, and i think that is what is the real wild card here, these 20 will not be isolated and cannot be isolated because there's enough of the right wing media echo chamber to sustain them. what does that mean for mccarthy. there's not many options. you have to cut a deal with them but you can't really intimidate them because they have that fall back. the other option is to find someone on the other side of the ledger to work with to create a cross party coalition.

as soon as he does that, the rest of the republican party or a good chunk will abandon him. he's kind of in a corner here. >> and there are 20 of them. not like five or four. >> there are 20 of them. following up on what mark leibovich said, following up on what charlie sykes said earlier today, eddie glaude, so now we're talking about the 20, maybe the five that can't even agree on how they start their congress. imagine every single bill that comes up, we saw last night, they almost lost the most basic vote that any party can take that's in control of the house floor and that is a motion to adjourn, and there was chaos and panic on the floor, and they had to gavel that vote closed because they were about to lose even that vote.

i mean, this is going to be -- you talk about the nihilism and the anarchy, we're going to see it play out live for the next two years on the house floor. >> absolutely. we have been talking about institutions holding, institutions being broken. this is an example not only of the kind of infrastructure, the republican party being cracked wide open. it's an example that the house of representatives is deeply dysfunctional in many ways. many of these folks are election deniers, anti-vaccinations, matt gaetz, lauren boebert. think of who we're talking about as having some kind of influence about how our country will run. you're absolutely right, joe. we better buckle up, it's not going to get better.

i don't know what it would mean to con seed to these people in any shape, form or fashion, what it would mean for the united states government. >> we'll see what it means for the republican party. if they fold here, they've got a rough two years ahead of them. >> sam stein and mark leibovich, thank you both for being on this morning. we do appreciate it. and still ahead on "morning joe." we'll be joined by a member of the freedom caucus who has emerged as a staunch opponent of kevin mccarthy during this speaker fight. plus, a prediction of the top political risks expected to play out over the next year including how a humiliated russia could pose a global threat. also this morning, we'll talk to democratic senator sherrod brown, who joined president biden and senate minority leader mitch mcconnell for a bipartisan event in kentucky yesterday. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. welcome back 33 past the hour, the united states may be sending more advanced weapons systems to ukraine following france's announcement that it is delivering light tanks to ukraine. president biden confirmed the u.s. is considering sending what are known as bradley fighting vehicles for ukraine's defense. "the washington post" reports a senior biden official suggested the vehicles could be included in a package of weapons to be announced as soon as this week. the vehicles are not technically tanks but they would mark an upgrade for ukrainian ground forces, willie. >> let's talk more about ukraine and russia with retired four satellite and radar navy admiral

james stavridis, and president and founder of the eurasia group, ian bremmer, good morning to you both. i want to get to the list in a second, but admiral, let's start as we turn the calendar into a new year with the state of play in ukraine right now. a big attack with an american supply of himars with russian troops. what does it look like on the ground with ukraine? >> yeah, i think the right question is what does it look like on the ground and what does it look like in the air? we've got two different wars going on here in a certain sense. on the ground it's not going well for vladimir putin's russia, thank god. and that strike, which you mentioned, which the kremlin says killed 80 i'm told reliably in the hundreds because of dumb use of cell phones on the battlefields. these are the conscripts, the cannon fodder. the war on the ground is not going well, and it's not going to go well. in the air, however, vladimir

putin continues to use his air force, his cruise missiles pretty effectively to take out ukrainian critical infrastructure. two different wars, willie, we're doing a very good job on the ground with this, and i think the addition of the bradley fighting vehicles is spot on. we need to do more to provide air defenses. president zelenskyy always said help us close the skies over ukraine. if we could do this, i think that would shift the balance. >> a strategy from putin appears to be going after civilian targets, infrastructure and the cold and dark now of winter. ian, that of course is the number one on your risk list here. rogue russia, a humiliated russia, you say, will turn from global player into the world's most dangerous rogue state. what does that mean for the world? >> we have never seen a rogue state that has had the kind of power that vladimir putin's russia does. we dealt with rogue state, north korea, iran, we know what they

do. they have been cut off from the international economic system. considered a military enemy, we want to overthrow the regime fundamentally, we want the end of these people. iran, you see the drone strikes, the ballistic missile strikes, the espionage, the proxy wars, the terrorism, that's where russia is heading. they're not going to win this war on the ground as the admiral said, they're not going to stop the ukrainians through punishing them in the air. what does that mean over the coming year as putin is very much in power. it means that a war which has been focused on ukraine so far is increasingly going to be focused on nato. we're not in a cold war with russia. we're in a hot war with russia that we are largely fight big proxy. the russians are going to expand their asymmetrical efforts.

>> a couple of thoughts for admiral and ian. let's talk through a few things that ian just brought up. first of all, the fact that the russians, we may not consider ourselves at war with russia, but the russians when they see zelenskyy in america, when they see the weapons going there, when they see what we're saying every day about them, they consider themselves to be in a hot war with us. that's one thing. the second thing, admiral, i'll start with you, touch on something that ian said. i have long said, and it may be confounding to some people, i think you two will understand it through the years tat only thing that i was more fearful of in russia than vladimir putin was russia after vladimir putin. and let me explain, a russia that melts down, that looks like russia in the early 1990s, that is militarily anarchic, that has

anarchy in its political structure, that leads to the type of armed services hearings that we had at the end of the '90s where people were coming to us saying we're afraid there's some nuclear suitcases that may have slipped out of russia's possession, they could be right now locked in a bus station somewhere in kansas. somebody pays them the money, they pick that up and they put it in any city and cause serious problems. we had one hearing after another like that in the late 1990s because of the chaos that followed the fall of the soviet union. that is a long way to get to the what i'm talking about here about here we are in 2022, and admiral, let's talk about the fears, let's talk about the threats if there is a complete meltdown in russia with no succession plan and you have a rogue state like ian said,

sitting on more nuclear weapons than any other country in the planet. >> about 6,000 if you're counting and in many ways, you're spot on, joe. in some ways, we ought to worry about russian weakness than russian strength for exactly the reasons you articulate correctly. in terms of a succession plan, there ain't one. putin is a classic example of a's hire a's, but b's hire c's. he's surrounded himself with a team of non-rivals. as a result, your scenario, a dark one is potentially possible in an event where putin has simply overthrown. i think the question is what should we be doing about it, and the answer to that question is thinking about it, pentagon planning about it. focus on the loose nuclear scenario that you talk about. it's real.

and it's concerning and i think above all, we want to manage through the conflict we're engaged in as ian said correctly, a war effectively being conducted in a proxy sense. we've got to land the plane here and not fly it into the mountain. >> so ian, off of that landing the plane, i mean, we have bradley fighting vehicles apparently on the way to ukraine. but we also have a congress, an incoming congress that half the congress, the majority, the republicans, some of them seem less than willing to go full fledged support for ukraine, for funding the war, for providing additional military apparatus for the ukrainians. what happens to the coalition that the president of the united states skillfully put together if we weaken in terms of our resolve and support financially and militarily for ukraine? >> the united states has been by far the most important military supporter of ukraine.

and that has still enjoyed the support of a strong majority not just of democrats but republicans. a few on the fringe have made news in saying no blank check and what that means is we want to stop paying them. other than the ultra maga types, for the foreseeable future. this coalition is not getting weaker. putin is getting more humiliated. that's a good next thing in terms of the ukrainian people. it's not necessarily a good thing as we think about the future of the global order. that's a great transition to the list. you have two elements that are interesting to me. one is the weapons of mass distraction. i think that's what it is. and the other is the divided states of america. talk about those two in relation to the kind of chaos that mike alludes to. >> the united states is number eight on the list. and given the fact that the list is made on the basis of impact,

likelihood and imminence, that almost means the u.s. isn't there, and the fact that the american democracy shows such resiliences, in addition to say brazil, in addition to the european union is one of the good pieces of news for 2023. we can take away a big flashing don't panic sign. what brings it together is in 1989 when the wall came down, the united states, for good and bad, sometimes hypocritically was the leading exporter of democracy around the world. we're by far the leading military, economy, but not only is the united states not the leading export of democracy, actually today, the united states is the leading exporter of tools that destroy democracy, and here of course we're talking about social media, we're talking about artificial intelligence, and a business models, not intended to destroy

democracy, they're intended for profit, and perhaps more importantly in other democracies that are weaker than the united states. and we have to take a hard look at the implications of that for the way we do and don't lead around the world. how can you not include that kind of a risk as we look at 2023. >> can you give us specific examples of that? we all have our own ideas about that, but give us specific examples of what tools, what social media networks, what are the biggest threats to democracy globally? >> look, i'm not going to sit and say it's tiktok or it's twitter. i'm going to say it's the algorithms that drive them. the name of the risk was weapons of mass disruption. and interestingly, it's the first time in 25 years that i didn't write one of the titles. it was written by an aibot.

this 2023 is the year when artificial intelligence breaks the touring test, and people around the table and watching right now will not be able to distinguish between a bottom and a human being in engaging in text and chat online. now, what that means for bad actors that have access to thousands or millions of those bots, and the disruption on corporations, on markets, especially when some of the bad actors are controlled by rogue states like the russians, for example, even like an increasingly embattled xi jinping. a players higher, b players hire c players. xi jinping is hiring c players. he has loyalists around him. the likelihood he makes mistakes is high, and acts in disruptive way is higher. you put that together with the

sign technology and ai bots. we can't tell when there's disinformation. that's a threat to democracy. the united states has a strong threat to democracy. i think the fact that they're all coming together is one of the things that worries us. >> one more off your list before we let you go. iran, extraordinary scenes of young people coming out in defiance of the islamic republic. richard haass thinks it's as shaky as 1979. is it a push and a retreat back to the way things have been in 30 years. >> one is the demonstrations are not getting stopped. the iranian response is not compromised, it's just repression. they don't have anything else in their tool kit. number two, the iranian nuclear deal is completely dead as a consequence of that. the iranians won't compromise, the americans will not give them

anything when they're doing what they're doing with the people. number three, the only major economy that's an ally of russia, it's not china. it's iran. another rogue state, giving them the drones. increasingly our intelligence says providing them ballistic missiles as well. all of that means that the geopolitical risks around iran, the likelihood as they get closer to nuclear breakout status, a new netanyahu government in israel or the saudis or others would take a military fight directly to iran, much higher than at any point that we have been watching. >> as you listen to all of this, which of these concerns you the most in the new year? >> they all concern me deeply. willie, one thread that runs through all of them that we haven't mentioned is cyber, and cyber risk. and here you see the potential for not just russia, which has weapons of mass destruction, alongside the weapons of mass disruption, and there's cyber tools. that is potentially ticking up on the risk clock.

iran has tools, quite capable. many other of these rogue states we talked about could play in that zone. to ian's excellent list, i would add there's a back frame to it of cyber risk that's rising in this new year. >> also on our list for 2023 "top gun: maverick" best picture at the oscars. we're going to start that lobbying. >> guys, thank you so much, good to see you. still ahead on "morning joe." >> but they want us divided. they want us to fight each other. that much has been made clear by the popcorn and blankets and alcohol that is coming over there. the house is not in order. >> leader mcconnell and i don't agree on everything, in fact, we

disagree on a lot of things, but here's what matters, he's a man of his word. when he gives you his word, you can take it to the bank, you can count on it, and he's willing to find common ground to get things done for the country, so thank you, mitch, thank you. >> quite a contrast on display yesterday. president biden and senators in the state of kentucky with a display of bipartisanship and some republican chaos on capitol hill. up next, we'll speak with democratic senator sherrod brown of ohio. he was with the president and minority leader yesterday. we'll talk to the senator when we come right back. we'll talk to the senator when we come right ckba

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leader mcconnell and i don't agree on everything. in fact, we disagree on a lot of things but here's what matters. he is a man of his word. you can count on jit he's willing to find common ground to get things done for the country. so thank you, mitch. thank you. we can work together. we can get things done.

we can move the nation forward. drop a little bit of our egos. >> if you look at the political alignment of everyone involved in this it is the government working together to solve a major problem at time when the country needs to see examples of coming together and getting an outcome. >> wow. >> that is a contrast. president biden in kentucky yesterday. >> huge contrast. >> with senate minority leader mitch mcconnell to tout the administration's infrastructure bill. the bill supplied $1.6 billion to replace a crumbling bill that connects southern ohio to northern kentucky. at the event is republican governor mike dewine, democratic governor and senator brown of ohio who joins us now. so looking just at those pictures, love to hear more

about the event yesterday and what it portends for the future but didn't seem like what one member of the house describing as the president obama jv team in washington. that looked like a good team led by joe biden yesterday. >> yeah. thanks. look at the contrast willie i think earlier pointed out. look at the house floor and what mitch mcconnell and president biden and former senator and i were boeing at that bridge with the governor of kentucky. this is the biggest i believe investment in one project from federal dollars perhaps ever. 3% of gdp to that bridge and look back. it is what bipartisanship looks like. we did the pact act for health care to soldiers who serve us

exposed to the burn pits in iraq. we are finally doing an industrial policy in the country. that was done bipartisanly. that is what we are there for and the celebration so wonderful about yesterday in kentucky but in cincinnati. all of you that know cincinnati point out to do it on the kentucky side because the camera looks into the background is beautiful skyline of cincinnati rather than the other way around. i'll let that go. >> you are a producer. you have a future in it. it is so interesting when you look at how this congress began on january 6th, 2021. no one would have predicted two years later that mitch mcconnell

and joe biden and governor dewine and senator sherrod brown and bashear, the people coming together but it really does underline a lot larger fact. you guys, republicans and democrats alike, were able to accomplish more in a bipartisan way in the last two years than anybody would have predicted. >> yeah. that's one of the joys of this job. i heard people say, a lot of people say this is the most productive senate, house and presidency since the great society in lbj days. some say since fdr and the new deal. it is the chips act that means a real industrial policy nationally. working with veterans.

fixing the pension program so a million workers who lost the pensions will get them. the child tax credit. a number of things we did with the inflation reduction act on climate change but a productive time. sometimes bipartisan not always. but that's what you elect us for. we talked about everything from the farm bill. he is on the ag committee with me to do what we might do on housing and what we can do on a whole host of other things so it was a good trip. it is what government service should be about and not what they are doing in washington whenever this ends with kevin mccarthy. >> senator brown, thank you for your service in so many ways. there is this view that bipartisanship somehow comes with the compromise of one's principles. it is clear who you are. where the politics are.

how do you present bipartisanship as not being a compromise of basic principles that define how you see yourself as a public servant? >> that's exactly the right question. rob portman and i, he rode out on the plane with us. one day out of office yesterday and we talked about the difference between compromise and the better way to understand it is finding common ground. rob and i are very different. he was for the trump tax cut for rich people as i would say. all the major issues and found common ground. lake erie, nasa glen, what we do to help columbus and central ohio. that's my job is not to compromise and even whatever moving to the center and that

means. it is finding common ground. roy blunt just retired from missouri. he said, we agreed on exactly five things and then says all five are now federal law. you see seek out republican -- i seek out republicans with whom i agree very little but find things that we agree on and that's what good public officials do. >> yesterday you were at the bridge looking back at cincinnati. and you mentioned the chips act. you mentioned the burn pits, the bridge that was built, part of legislation package. you were talking about the child care tax credit. up for re-election in 2024 in a republican state. you're a staunch democrat. how do democrats grow the popularity in states that lean to republicans?

how do democrats behave and act and get more things that people can touch and see that impact their lives? >> you do really what we were just talking about. find common ground. i will be in toledo today and in sandusky when the show is over and head west talking to veterans about the issues. i will be talking about lake erie issues that really don't a party label. it is as you know. it starts with reasoning to people's concerns are and we all talk too much and don't listen enough. those in public office. my state is a 60% pro choice state. i have been for marriage

equality. i will not promise. they are so important. civil work rights and talking about worker rights it is not are you left or right or republican or democrat it's whose side are you on? i do better with working class voters than any democrat in this part of the country because i lead talking about worker rights and being on the side of workers. >> senator brown, thank you very much. it is just past the top of the hour of the third hour of "morning joe." the chaos on capitol hill high lighting former president trump's irrelevance. there is no speaker of the house and no swearing-ins now for the third day?

>> this is the catastrophe-izing version. there are congresses that started january 8th, the 15th. >> highlights trump's impact and seen play out shows the now seeming irrelevance. >> yeah. i think it does highlight right now that he's having a very little, very little effect. i said yesterday the debate unfolding on the house floor is fascinating. there's absolutely nothing to catato -- >> really? what if there's a crisis? what happens? >> we'll be fine.

>> okay. >> we'll be fine. you and i have been watching this and it has been fascinating. >> fascinating. >> i'm glad americans see it and seeing how things run. >> we have come to a moment with president biden and marjory taylor greene saying the same thing. this is embarrassing. >> let's bring in chris matthews. in washington, d.c. you have a congress accusing democrats of inbibing alcohol on the house floor. an absolute lie. that hasn't happened since they brought cameras into the chamber. we won't have you tell us what it was like in the back of the chamber before they brought cameras in. i heard the old guys used to

imbibe a lot. talk about the house on the house floor and in kentucky where you had conservative ohio governor and progressive ohio senator, a retiring republican, mitch mcconnell, joe biden, kentucky democratic governor altogether saying you know what? we got to get things done for the people. what a contrast that was yesterday, huh? >> in a way it's a traditional difference between the house and the senate. the house is more extreme with smaller districts and don't have to represent the whole state. mcconnell has to deal with liberals in kentucky he wants to keep the senate the way it is. he doesn't want to get rid of the -- any changes that were there. i think the big loser this week

is probably trump. i have watched him begin this week. he started the week by saying he thought this the pro life extremists brought down the party in november. wait a minute. don't you all recall what he said to me in wisconsin in '16 saying there needs to be a punishment for having an abortion? he said that. a punishment or anybody who has to make a decision on abortion matters. now saying it wasn't my fault. the extremists were doing that. i think he is a little losing it. a sense of balance. he was the one pushing that so hard. now the 20 members of the house not listening to him. i watched last night, an incredible effort of sean

hannity to get a member of congress from colorado to say who is the candidate for speaker. went on forever. she would never say who she wanted to be speaker of the house. that's where it's gotten. 20 member that is will vote for anybody. bum of the mo. to run against -- to run for speaker. who do they want? that's a fair question. they don't answer the question. >> maybe we'll get an answer rite now because i want to bring in a republican who's voted against kevin mccarthy. dan bishop of north carolina. i promise you! i won't ask you questions about donald trump. >> what? >> what i want to talk to you about is when i heard you talking yesterday with jake tapper. this guy kind of talks the way i

talked. don't flow bills on the floor that spend trillion of dollars to say i have to vote up or down in two hours. i always voted no until i knew what was in the package. i have heard you and a handful of members. chip roy also talking about the need for transparency. i'm so grateful you are on the show this morning so viewers understand some people pose for the cameras but i have seen members who want what i wanted. regular order. i heard from so many members that it's gotten worse. subcommittees don't matter. committees don't matter. three leaders in the house. three leaders in the senate and

a president. talk about how you want to change that. >> joe, you have made the case praet doggone well. i believe there are americans who believe congress doesn't work well for ordinary americans. it is about washington and the interests in the lobbyists. as you say if we have -- if the omnibuses are so marvelous, the policy in them, the spending, there's a list of outrages that just passed in a twitter thread that went viral. i don't think that's good for the american people. kevin mccarthy released a letter on new year's eve. we started this process that's been working on this with proposed rule changes in the summer before the election. never had a dialogue about

anything until after that. he said he is ending business as usual. there's an admission in that. what this is about i don't think it's chaos. i don't believe it needs to be catastrophe-ized, joe. it is about taking a new tact. let's not keep doing the same thing in the same way and expect a different result. >> just for the viewers, again, there are people out there playing for the cameras. doing it to raise money. i want to talk with you. i want to talk to other republicans doing it for a reason nothing to do with far left or far right. what you are talking about would be bad for republican leaders or democratic lead everies if they wanted to run the house from the

top down where they just write the laws in secret, put them together and then hand them to 435 members. about 430 of them for the past decade that have become irrelevant. explain how that hurts democrats, that hurts republicans, that hurts the institution. >> joe, i think it leads to conclusions and will offend some viewers that ukraine is the republicans' top priority. it is an important issue. very important. inflation is important. our southern border in chaos is important. supply of energy and fuel is important. all of these things are very much on the minds of the american people. i'm not sure they would say ukraine is the top priority. if you believe that folk who is

are dictating things in washington, the institutionalists are in charge. that's not what i think we should seek. there are things to be worked out among people. i think people are both sides. yesterday we've nominated byrondon alds. he could have been elected the first speaker of the congress yesterday. if they had voted for him the rest of the republicans would. instead of wringing our hands to delay the beginning of business of congress we actually look at some of these issues carefully and work them out to the best conclusion. that's what we are working on in earnest. >> but practically speaking, byron donalds didn't have the votes. is there someone else out there

to garner the votes? someone to name right now? steve scalise a legitimate option? how do the republicans navigate get to a speaker? >> by its nature some people see it as chaotic. people are inclined to see it as chaotic and worry. this is a process that continued for two, three days. and we started off with five people and pleasantly surprised it's grown to 20. now is voting present. it is a beginning. it is a body. obviously if you don't get to a point within some reasonable point in time then something else happens. that's the nature of how things are resolved in a republic in a constitutional body. there's no harm in it. that's the thing.

but byron -- asking me to name who i would name when i'm supporting a candidate. that's donalds. >> okay. >> joe understands that. come on back to congress, joe. we need you back. >> let me ask you this, too. about kevin mccarthy. again, there were members when i was there, very obvious, they were only interested in the pursuit of power. seemed to be empty vessels other than just achieving success politically. and our group of 10, 15, 20 always shunned those people. i'm curious, for you specifically is the problem with kevin mccarthy? do you feel like you could ever trust kevin mccarthy to take a tough stand if it may hurt him

politically? >> joe, there's also a tendency to personalize it. kevin is a likable guy. he's been there 14 years in leadership and had the same prioritys. we are yet to accomplish them. if things should result in kevin mccarthy being speaker he's got the talent to deliver for the american people but he would have to go to the mat for the american people. i will say i sat behind kevin for 8 1/2 hours when he spoke continuously using a magic minute on the floor. sat behind him to know if he wants to fight on something and go to the mat i will walk through fire for him. i think all of us will but we have to do that.

you hear, oh god, republicans will go to the mat. we don't want that. we would be better if we did that. when donalds nominated yesterday a democratic member elect tweeted that he is a prop. that's so unbecoming. and if you know byron donalds like i do he ain't no prop. it is time to get passed things and now's a great time to do it. >> if this isn't catastrophe-izing and okay what's happening now as the process is laid out before our eyes, how long are you guys willing to hold out and how long could this go on? >> what it really amounts to is that it's a choice of others than us. when byron decided to step up

and by the way if he is a prop he would be with the rest but when he decided to make it 20 and then 20 1/2, that's where the decision making power lies. if others decide this is too important. we hear from the american people to do something. it will go longer. if members do not so decide then it will come to a conclusion. but are working on continued improvements in the process. i have been seen progress on that. i think it will be good for the american people. >> there you go! dan, you have picked up the language of "morning joe." we appreciate it. appreciate you being on the show and hope the good people that are working for the ninth congressional district of louisiana don't have too many angry phone calls for you on our

show. >> eight. >> eighth now? moving the lines. >> they do. >> republican congressman dan bishop of north carolina, thank you. good luck. >> thank you. >> chris matthews, there's always a friction. >> interesting. >> you worked for the speaker tip o'neill, i was sort of an agitator. i hated the rules committee. they would figure out how to squeeze the debate as tight as possible. i hated being handed 2,000-page bills with an hour to read it. somebody said to me, son, this is not a democracy. this is the house of representatives. that friction plays out every congress. >> look at the ways and means

bills from rostenkowski. you had to vote for the bill before you knew what was in it. when the dates were. it was a clever way to keep everybody on the team. i was just listening to mr. bishop there. if you put the conservative -- you need the conservatives in the congress. liberals cannot solve the problems. that i are concerned about the migrants. whoever shows up in a need somewhere down the caribbean they ask to come in the country. you have to put that proposal up. the plight which is real. up against any country's right to give them jobs and opportunities. the republicans can be the conservatives in that argument. we don't like the migrant thin and dicey about it but we think something has to be done about

the 20 million or so people in the country illegally. you can put a compromise together with conservatives and liberals. but you can only do what you agree on a deal. there has to be a deal. you talk about this. you have to arrange the conservatives to have a voice about the migrants. and the conservatives concerned about the people in this country for a long time. there's a deal there. they won't make it. that's the problem with the congress. long term problems. no solutions. you need conservatives and liberals to get together with a workable republican party and why this is a disaster. you need leadership. somebody has to stand up and say, i know i will lose some support on this but i'm willing

to do a compromise to do something for the people in the country 20 years that are not legal. that is a price i'm willing to make. without a republican party there's not going to be a deal the next two or ten years. that's the problem of the democrats. they need a republican party to do business with. >> all right. >> true. chris matthews, thank you for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> joining us is democratic congresswoman spanberger. so good to have you on. do you think given what's happening in congress right now that a workable republican party can emerge? >> it is deeply concerning what we are seeing and months ago the pitch was made that they wanted to be the governing party in

charge. they won the slim majority. have had months to prepare. and so the fact that there is agitation, dissent, differences of opinion is not concerning but the fact that after months they are still at a complete lock spot and unable to basically create a governing majority. we have so much to do so we need to find areas of significant compromise. and it's so notable that as we are watching problem and republican leader mcconnell meet in kentucky, pull a group together and talk about what can be achieved when we work together and find bipartisanship that the contrast between the intraparty fighting occurring is

just deeply concerning and noticeable. >> congresswoman, good morning. yes, a very vivid split screen yesterday between what we saw on the river and the house. it is more than the republicans can't form a government. the house of representatives doesn't exist but you have real things to tackle this year. >> yeah. >> funding the government and the debt ceiling are huge stories. is this keeping you up at night that you may not get it done? >> i think that it should be keeping everyone up at night. the notion to not fund the government is not as simple as not funding the government. it is a complete shutdown of every agency that keeps us safe.

same people talking about fentanyl on the border talking about the security and every person that works to keep us safe. shutting down the fbi. irs returns. the basic function of our country if the government is shut down. and then the debt ceiling. that's the ability on the global stage to be a world leader from a national security perspective. this is the severity and the importance of what it is that we are talking about. it is really -- being here watching the disagreements on the house floor and the

brinksmanship does not instill faith for how we get through to the next step. i remain committed to working with anyone of good faith to achieve what needs to be achieved for the american people. working on good policy but at in point in time the basics are at least in some level of danger. >> one of the proposed rules changes that apparently the majority is going to paz and enact would be a single member of congress could propose to vacate the chair of speaker. if that passes and it becomes part of the house rules in the next two years would you be comfortable to say we have one speaker for the next two years? >> that's a question for my

counterparts. certainly this rule existed for many, many -- i mean, decades if not centuries. it was possible for one person to motion to vacate the chair but those that believe congress should function never used it. at this point it would be a question for those who are currently in disagreements within their own party to motion to vacate the chair why what happens when appropriations bills are on the floor? it is our duty. if someone disagrees with something in those bills are they going to motion to vacate the chair?

these are areas of concern in a circumstance beyond what people imagined could occur. >> democratic congresswoman of virginia, thank you for being on this morning. we will be watching today still ahead on "morning joe," an up date on damar hamlin's condition. what the buffalo bills are saying about his health after he collapsed on the field. the incident has drawn comparisons to this moment from the 1998 stanley cup playoffs. defenseman suffered cardiac arrest after taking a slap shot to the chest. he joins us later this hour. you are watching "morning joe." ♪ ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪

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clarity. because there was no unprecedented -- because that's what it was. but in that moment he really showed who he was. all his focus was on damar and being there for him and his family at the hospital. at that point i think everything trended in the direction it needed to trend and the right decisions were made there but again just the way that -- i really felt shawn mcdermott was there for his players. and really helped us get to the solution we needed to get to. >> bengals head coach taylors commending buffalos head coach's actions after damar hamlin was taken off the field in critical condition. his heart stopped in the game.

there does appear to be some positive news. the bills announced he showed signs of improvement tuesday and overnight into yesterday adding he's expected to remain under intensive care as his team continues to monitor and treat him. not a lot of specifics but hope. the team returning to some normal football activity with meetings and a walk through yesterday and did not hold any media available. they are expected to resume practice today. the bengals scheduled to play sunday against the ravens. the nfl is considering the options for rescheduling that bills-bengals game. so far no decision is made. and this week's slate of games unchanged. among the options is pushing back the start of the postseason and eliminate a bye week.

other scenarios include playing the games on the same weekend and pushing the start of playoffs back by a week. perhaps the simplest option is not to finish the game at all. coming up, a next guest voted six times in support of kevin mccarthy as house speaker. he tries to predict what comes next on capitol hill. "morning joe" is coming right back. people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. ♪customize and save♪ only pay for what you need. ♪liberty liberty liberty♪ ♪liberty♪

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over the past few years as so many states in the country grinded their citizens down we in florida lifted our people up. [ applause ]

when other starts consigned their peoples' freedom to the bust bin florida stood strongly. when the world lost its mind, when common sense suddenly became an uncommon virtue florida was a refuge of santi, a citadel of freedom for fellow americans and even for people around the world. >> joining us is "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner. good. there is a connection here that people flee the northeast and moving south. why? >> taxes are certainly up there. we have new tax data from the irs taking us through 2020 with a sense of what's been going on in terms of people making over a million dollars and filing tax returns and what you can see on the chart is that the blue line is new york.

you can see new york share. our share. my share of millionaire filers has gone down over ten years from 13% to 10%. florida share which is the red line has gone up and met new york so florida now has as many people with million dollars or more of income filing tax returns in the state as new york. the lighter lines are california with a special benefit from the tech millionaires and ten teixeira as the yellow line mirrored florida. what happened to the average incomes of people filing in florida versus new york and blue line is new york. average incomes as a percent of the average in the country. 3.4 million now. new york has had millionaires

wealthier than the average millionaire. look at florida, the red line. florida from average millionaires of 3.$3 million a year income in 2013 to 4.4 million dollars of income today so the wealthiest people are moving to florida, leaving new york. this is important because 1% of tax filers in new york, 40,000 people in the city of new york, pay 40% of new york's taxes and if those people leave that is a difficult situation for new york. >> can we put the chart back up? explain for me what's on the left side? is that top line california? >> yes. they have the most millionaires in the country. what percentage of millionaires

does each state have. >> california which everybody calls a socialist paradise with millionaires. what separates let's say california from new york? what now by the way has a smaller gdp than does texas? what separates new york from illinois? new jersey? the states struggling so badly. because they have all got high taxes. taxes in california outrageous. you could be paying 55, 60% of income to local, state, national taxes. why is california remaining so high there? how in the world do states like illinois and new jersey high taxes stop this money flight? >> in california it is really the tech millionaires. california does as much as new

york or illinois to push people out by raising taxes. they create so many millionaires that the share is high and even growing somewhat. let's look at the next chart. what you see on the left are total tax burdens. people do pay even in florida taxes. they pay property taxes, sales taxes. so there is a tax burden in florida and in texas. on the left florida and texas that's 8% of income and not really moved from 2019 to 2022. but you look on the right and you see california and new york have both increased the taxes substantially over this period. new york's tax burden from 14% to 16%. of average income. but look what happens on the right. because of the nature of the taxes because florida's taxes

are regressive everyone pays sales tax and homeowners pay property tax. for the lowest income floridians paying 12.7% of the income in these taxes. in the top 1% in florida you pay 2.3% of the income in taxes. in contrast if you look at the blue line which is new york you can see it is stable. not progressive but not regressive so florida in effect is a tax policy to reward millionaires for going there at the expense the people at the bottom paying higher shares of income than in new york. people in florida at the bottom pay a higher share of income. >> thank you. a next guest is in charge of

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willie, apparently there's a need for grace inside the republican conference because there are republicans not happy with other republicans in their conference. >> yeah. the last couple of days cracked open the party and gotten a look at the tensions that have been simmering for several years now. republican congressman crenshaw of texas is vocal going after the group of 19 or 20 holding up the potential speakership of kevin mccarthy. the congressman said this yesterday about the group, that group of far right members standing in the way of kevin

mccarthy. >> they keep coming up with more and more ridiculous reasons. i love bringing up the example of bob good because i think he's one of the worst members of caucus. he was mad at kevin mccarthy because he took three weeks to call him after the election. he spent about $2 million to get that loser elected and lauren boebert who insults donald trump just because of trump supporting mccarthy. you know? these members contribute nothing, nothing to our majority. they contribute nothing to the . they don't think about policy. they don't even know who thomas sowel is. they have no opinions on how to fix social security or the

budget. >> congressman dan crenshaw on a radio show yesterday. i think he's speaking for a lot of members in his caucus right now. >> he's speaking for a lot of members in the caucus and mark leibovitch speaking for a lot of members in conservative media, whether it's the "wall street journal," "the new york post," a lot of the murdoch media, also, though, just rank-and-file republicans also who are looking at this group of people that are holding this up. and there are some, and we're going to be talking to some of them, and we specifically selected those who had good reasons for having concerns about kevin mccarthy. we're going to be speaking to them today. but for the most part, this is just deeply personal, deeply personal for all the reasons that you wrote about kevin mccarthy in your book, that he's seen as an empty vessel and a guy who is so desperate to

receive the speakership that he was willing to sacrifice one thing after another throughout his career. and, again, just be totally reduced to servitude. talk about it. >> i mean, this is a situation that he in a way planned for. he planned for chaos and he is getting chaos and the whole caucus is getting chaos. i think to some degree he's operating in a system that looks -- i mean, certainly from the outside ungovernable. i think we're seeing that in the last few days. what dan crenshaw just said about bob goode, boebert, go down the list, what he's talking about here is a congress, certainly a big slice of the republican part of congress where no one cares about the esteem of their colleagues. no one cares about committee assignments. no one cares about getting respect. no one cares about passing bills. you know, go down the list. i mean, the reward system is

entirely defined by fox news, by social media, by getting attention, by getting the things, you know, the matt gates of the world are getting right now. so in a way you could sort of see this building for a while. coming up, damar hamlin's collapse on monday brought back memories of an incident during the stanley cup more than 20 years ago. that's when nhl hall of famer chris pronger was hit in the heart with a hockey puck. he reflects on that moment straight ahead on "morning joe."

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hit in the chest with a slap shot. he stood up and attempted to skate it off before collapsing on the ice. momentarily losing consciousness after experiencing a form of cardiac arrest. pronger would recover from the injury, going on to play in his team's very next game, and another 13 years in the nhl. and chris pronger joins us now. it's great to have you with us. >> thank you. >> for a number of reasons. >> for a number of reasons. but, you know, chris, what's so frightening is the parallels between what happened to you and what we saw on the football field where you got up, started to try to skate and then immediately collapsed. tell us -- tell us what you can remember of that time. >> yeah. i just -- as you saw in the video, i went out to block the shot, it hit me square in the heart. i had a little red welt on my

chest. it stung. i lost my breath a little bit. i corralled the puck, wanted to get a whistle, and then i blacked out on the ice, but in my head i was telling myself to get to the bench and i woke up 20, 30 seconds later looking up at joe louis arena rafters and staring at all the retired numbers and banners up there and saw people hovered over the top of me. i glanced to the right and saw our bench, and guys were crying and teared up, and i really didn't know what was going on. it was pretty surreal. >> wow. >> so what kind of -- what kind of help did you get? how quickly did you get it? >> they were out there pretty fast as you saw. a couple players came over and training staff and the doctors got out there. they cut my jersey off and, you know, everything was splayed wide open. i did not lose -- i lost consciousness, but i didn't stop breathing. that's probably the biggest difference in these two cases.

and got back in the ambulance, my parents were at the game, as well, so they got to witness all that. and then just went to the hospital, stayed overnight, and flew back to st. louis the next afternoon and met with a heart specialist and started kind of walking through some stress tests and different things to kind of check to see if there were any issues with my heart. i wore a heart monitor for 24 hours. i went back the next morning, got checked out, she gave me a clean bill of health, and i went down to the rink the next morning and did warm-up and felt good and played that night. >> wow. so, when did you -- how long after this happened did you -- were you told what happened? are we correct in saying it was a form of cardiac arrest? what exactly happened? >> it was commotio cardis, so my heart was in between beats when

the puck hit me so my heart thought it beat -- in that one instance, that one heartbeat that didn't happen, there's that much oxygen going through your body, and that's what caused me to pass out, and my heart never stopped beating. it just restarted itself and kept going after that. but basically missed one heartbeat and that's why i passed out. >> chris, good morning. jonathan lemire. there are some theories what you described there, that condition is what happened to damar hamlin. we don't know exactly yet. we know his situation is far more graver than yours. were there any concerns you had about resuming your playing career like with damar, what happened to you is something that happens in every game, takes a hit, for you a puck, defensemen block pucks all the time, this was a freak accident -- did you have any concerns about resuming your career that something like that could happen again?

>> yeah. no. that was one of the questions i had for the doctor as we walked through, you know, the q&a after, i went through all the testing, the stress testing and she read all the data from my heart monitor and looked for any abnormalities or blips in my heart rate. everything checked out, gave me a clean bill of health. basically said for the sequence of events for this to happen it's like winning the lottery. as we know, this hasn't happened in hockey since, 25 years later. this particular incident, commotio cordis happens in little league baseball when pitchers get a line drive back at them and hits them in the heart. unfortunately for them, they're not as fully developed and physically mature and a lot of them unfortunately pass away. it's not a very good cardiac moment, event, but, you know, i think the biggest difference between myself and damar is that he was not breathing and they had to paddle him and obviously gave him a lot of cpr for a number of minutes.

that's the most concerning part. >> all right. chris pronger, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. we appreciate your coming on the show this morning. thank you. >> thank you. >> thanks so much. all right. we are at the top of our fourth hour now. it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east coast, and in washington, d.c., where we still do not have a speaker of the house. republicans are no closer to electing one, not an inch after gop leader kevin mccarthy lost a sixth straight vote yesterday. sixth. leaving the house totally paralyzed and unable to do the nation's business. nbc news senior congressional correspondent garrett haake has the latest. >> reporter: this morning no end in sight to the chaos in congress. a small but determined band of republicans digging in against party leader kevin mccarthy. he's still short of the votes needed to the claim the

speaker's gavel. the house all but paralyzed after three more failed votes wednesday. >> a speaker has not been elected. >> reporter: the new gop-controlled congress can't vote on bills, form committees, or even swear in members until they elect a speaker. and that may not happen for days after late-night, closed-door talks failed to break the impasse. >> just talking. that's all. we talk until we get this done. >> reporter: but a new deal may be on the horizon. overnight mccarthy offering the group a series of concessions in a bid to win them over, including a rule that would allow just one member to call for a vote to remove the speaker at any time. it comes after 20 republicans opposed mccarthy on wednesday, some demanding concessions like committee slots of rules changes, others refusing to vote for the californian under any circumstances. >> i'm ready to vote all night, all week, all month, and never for that person. >> reporter: mccarthy's allies growing frustrated with the hard-liners in their party.

>> it's becoming detrimental to our nation. >> reporter: even former president trump, who urged republicans to vote for kevin couldn't sway mccarthy's opponents. >> the president need to tell kevin mccarthy that, sir, you don't have the fights and it's time to withdraw. >> reporter: president biden weighing in on the fight on capitol hill. in on the fight o capitol hill >> reporter: and overnight, the last person to hold the speaker's job offering this advice to mccarthy. >> just get it done. >> get it done. nbc's garrett haake reporting from capitol hill. joining us now, republican congressman david ball deo from california. he has voted for kevin mccarthy in each of the six votes held so far and he's said he will vote for mccarthy for as long as it takes. congressman, thanks for joining us this morning. help us understand where this is headed from here. it seems to be the same story with all six votes with those pledging your allegiance to kevin mccarthy, the 19 or 20 who say they won't staying and

holding their ground. how does this change? >> i think we just have to keep working. there were late-night conversations, early morning conversations. the process started months ago. it will be a fight. >> you know some of these people in that group of 20 or they're colleagues of yours. have you talked to them privately or through public observation? what exactly are they up to? what do they really want out of this process? >> that's the problem, and now it's been reported before but it's been important to remember that we've gone through this process, we went through the rules committee debate, a closed-door meeting with just republicans, we debate and pass a rules package. that was pretty much unanimous. i don't remember there being a single no vote. then they started to try to change the rules again. there are some concessions that can be made. but when we had a closed-door meeting again, the very straightforward question of what do you want was asked, and it

was asked from everyone in the room to the point where there were shouts. and there was no direct answer. i still continue to hear members, random members talking to these -- this small, small group of members and asking them what do you want, and there's still no clear answer. >> as you say, kevin mccarthy has conceded so much already to all of them, including overnight according to our reporting at nbc news, a single member can raise his or her hand and vote to effectively a vote of no confidence against the speaker and move him out of power. so there any negotiating left to be done here with this group? >> well, the reality is the motion to vacate is something that brings to the floor a motion that requires another vote for speaker. it doesn't allow that one person to remove the speaker, but it brings chaos and disrupts the process of legislating and is a weapon that would be used. i don't know if that's what happens. if the majority of us disagree, we can again vote down the rules. >> congressman, good morning. my question to you is did this

small group outnumbered by the rest of you, wielding power right now, holding up the entire process,000 concerned are you that even if some deal is struck that kevin mccarthy becomes speaker but this group is going to still feel emboldened and be able to hijack the process legislatively countless times down the road including for the idea of a call for a new speaker vote? >> well, obviously we're really concerned. we're concerned with what's going on right now. the administration is continuing to act without oversight. as members of congress, we're not sworn in so we have no committees so we can't start working on the things we committed to working on as members of congress once being elected. even our offices, reaching out to federal agencies to help our constituents is being hampered at this moment. it's a big concern this small group of members is disrupting the business of the people and disrupting the process that we need to get started, which is governing.

if it's passing legislation to help our border situation, if it's providing oversight over afghanistan, if it's providing oversight over things important to me, water in the central valley, there's a lot of things that need to be done but we can't do that until these folks come online and start to figure out they're a small minority. there are 200 of us together on this, over 200, supporting kevin mccarthy. they've had their opportunity to make their debate. they've got a lot of their compromises. and now we have the opportunity to move forward and actually govern as a majority, but they're holding up the whole process. >> and, congressman, if you look at even what happened last night, they just keep moving the goal post. they constantly keep moving the goal post. like you said, it's hard to nail them down. so the question is, as they keep moving the goal post, i guess for the express purpose of just stopping kevin mccarthy, despite what the overwhelming majority of republicans in the conference want, will you stand by kevin mccarthy through the seventh,

eighth, 10th, 20th ballot? >> oh, absolutely. i have publicly committed to being there as long as i need to be there to continue to stay on. there's a lot more of us who committed to standing with him through the long haul, if it's hundreds of ballots we'll be there. but ultimately we need them to come on board if they want to do anything, help their own constituents at home and help their home areas. i mean, we get elected to congress with certain people and this isn't certain people for sure. >> david valadao from california, thanks for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> democrats continue to stand as a united force in support of their newly elected minority leader hakeem jeffries. joining us now, one of the 212 democrats who has voted for jeffries in each of the six speaker ballots this week, congressman joe neguse of california, chair of the democratic policy and

communications committee. it's great to have you on the show this morning. so what do you hope can get done if and when republicans elect their speaker if it's kevin mccarthy? >> good morning. thanks for having me on. first it's important to take a step back. you have articulated well the stakes but it's important for the viewers to understand how unprecedented this situation is and the fact we're going into the third day of proceedings in the house without the house being organized, the first time in a century. it is dangerous. i agree with my colleague, representative valadao and many others, the fact that the house hasn't been organized creates real risks for our country from a national security perspective of course, from a governing perspective, and i think house democrats at this point as you said couldn't be more united behind the strong leadership of jeffries and focused on dliching real results for the american people. our hope is the republicans can

get their act together and find a way to ultimately reconcile their differences so that we can get back to work for the american people. it's clear to me this republican party within the house is disinterested and incapable of governing, and that is unfortunate and certainly a dispiriting sign for every american who's been watching the proceedings the last couple days. >> and certainly a problem, congressman. this is small potatoes compared to raising the debt ceiling or funding the government, things like that. you can't imagine this coalition getting enough votes to pass anything. what are your concernses no only as a democrat but an american lawmaker about where we go from here? >> i think you articulated it really well. perhaps the most troubling development in the last few days is this is but a preview of what is to come. the turmoil that the american people have seen within the house republican conference is a harbinger of the chaos and confusion and crisis that unfortunately i believe is likely to grip this congress in the months ahead.

when we have real consequential challenges that face the country that we need to address, as you mentioned the debt ceiling of course coming up later this year, there are important legislative vehicles that joe and others are well familiar with, the farm bill reauthorization, the faa reauthorization, important issues affecting the airline industry, many other public policy challenges. house democrats would like to work with our colleagues to find ways to build common ground and deliver. but unfortunately, the extreme maga wing of the republican party has taken over the house republican conference, and it's apparent to me that it is unlikely we're going to be able to find those ways to develop common ground in light of the dysfunction that has taken hold already. >> so i just want to go back to something you said earlier, congressman, because the number of republicans have said this is democracy, it's messy, don't catastrophize, you know, we're going to get through this and be better for it. what are the risks and dangers

of this not getting done, and it perhaps prolonging a few more days, maybe longer? >> yeah. i simply could not disagree more. and you have -- you know, the words i've used, chaos caucus, so on and so forth, those aren't my words. those are words you will hear from rank-and-file republicans. just yesterday i believe there were a group of republican members who have worked in the national security space who talked about the national security risks that exist as a result of the house not organizing. the reality that no member of congress has been sworn into the institution, none of us have security clearances, the gang of eight as you all well know, an important entity within the house, is right now the gang of four because house leadership of course has not been fully constituted because of the republicans' inability to ultimately organize the house. so there are real risks. you heard my colleague describe some of those in terms of our ability to actually deliver here

by virtue of the republicans' inability to organize. the other thing i would just note, and you've touched on this a bit during the program this morning, but americans should be concerned about the demands that mr. mccarthy apparently is giving into. he has capitulated on virtually every demand that the extreme wing of his caucus has made. that should concern every american. the question is what midnight deals was mr. mccarthy striking last night with the various folks who have been opposing him and the ways in which i believe that will ultimately make this institution ungovernable and incapable of delivering real results to the american people in the way in which house democrats did over the course of the last two years with a very similar margin here in the house. >> congressman joe neguse of colorado, thank you very much for your insights this morning. we appreciate it. >> it's really interesting. he talks about this same majority that nancy pelosi had. >> i know. >> and she got so much done. >> so much done but never walked

out there without knowing what was going on. this is very different. >> knew what was going on. i love the clip of her, they said what should kevin mccarthy do? she said, "get it done." for her, it's simple. you get the votes and get it done. >> just threw it -- gave it all away. >> some people are really good at this. some people aren't. founder of punchbowl news, john bresnahan and political reporter for axios, alexi mccannon. john, we've been showing a lot of video of you following kevin mccarthy around asking him questions, chirping at him constantly. what can you tell us about -- update us, what happened last night? did kevin mccarthy give in more, only to be pushed back by the rebels again? where are we today? >> yeah. some of the mccarthy opponents are meeting this morning. they've met this morning and talked. there were a bunch of concessions l.a. night. you talked about it.

the motion to vacate. but there was even more. he's agreed to put freedom caucus members on the rules committee or they call it hfc adjacent. he's agreed to have votes on term limits bill, on border security bill. he's agreed to or about to agree to give them, you know, subcommittee chairmanships. they want to have a cardinal on the appropriations committee who's a freedom caucus member. now, these are all huge issues, and there's one more, this church committee they've talked about, which would be under judiciary, they want to pull it out and have a freedom caucus member chairing that select committee. so he's given a ton of stuff. we talk about the rules committee, that's really important. knows this. that's how the speaker runs the house. they control the rules committee. it's 9-4 the majority. the majority pushes through and

says here's how we're going to vote on this bill, what amendments are in order, how long it's going to happen. that's how the speaker exercises their control of the house floor. and to have the freedom caucus guys on the rules committee, that means they have to vote for these rules, they have to support the process, and they don't want to do that. so how can you put those kind of members on the rules committee? this is a big issue internally for the house. and that's like a huge fight right there, and that's still ongoing. but, you know, as you've said over and over again, mccarthy has to keep making these concessions or he has no chance of being speaker. >> alexi, we've been asking republican after republican on this show for the last several days how does this standoff end? you have a group of congressmen and women who say we're not budging, we don't like mccarthy, kavrt says i'm not going anywhere. as we day three, it's not clear how this fever breaks. what are you hearing on capitol hill about any possible way through for republicans?

>> yeah, you're exactly right. you just heard from congressman valadao who said he would vote for mccarthy through hundreds of ballots, so that suggests some allies are willing to stick it out for him. one republican lawmaker said they would be stupid not to take the concessions that mccarthy has been offering them because he has made so many as john just walked us through. i think we're seeing both sides -- you know, one side supporting mccarthy wants to get this done and move forward and be able to start governing. the other side doesn't have a clear articulation of who they wanted or what innocent beyond these demands. they're simply trying to kind of redefine the scope and the scale and the way that the speaker can govern not just now but in the future. i mean, let's say kevin mccarthy becomes speaker. that would be the best day of his life and it will all be downhill from there because as you have all talked about today and this entire week, how will he manage these kind of unruly factions and competing ideas as we're seeing him fail to do so

now when it comes to legislation in the future? >> alexi, jonathan. so we've been reporting all morning it seems like mccarthy has given up quite a bit, but it's not, enough just yet. barring something unexpected we're probably not going to get a speaker with that vote scheduled for noon and maybe not the one after or the one after. people you're talking to there, are they preparing for what's next, not in terms of necessarily a new candidate but the mechanics of what this is going to be like? are they going to be there all night, this weekend? is this silling into next week? paint a picture for us as to what those negotiations could yield. >> the republican side, they're willing to stay throughout the weekend to continue having these late-night discussions. frustrations are building, but folks are clear in their willingness to continue talking and hashing out trying to get to, again, a clear articulation of what these folks want. on the democratic side, the democrats i talk to, they're

thinking through the implications of what this means for them in 2024, and not just for president biden but for retaking the house majority. i met with the democratic nominee from richmond yesterday replacing and she's confident democrats will retake the house majority in just two years. the anything, democrats -- and you had congressman neguse on who is of course in charge of coming up with party messaging, democrats are looking at this and saying this is the continuation of the chaos and crises you saw from the republican party ahead of the november contest we told you about, now look at what they're doing as they continue to say democrats are delivering. you see president biden out with mitch mcconnell, touting these pieces of legislation that they're proud of. i think this gives democrats as they say an opportunity to keep talking about those things while contrasting themselves with the party on the right that is really, you know, self-imploding

every day. >> brez, let's look forward a little bit for a second. you were around obviously when we went after newt gingrich, and that seemed to be a singular obsession for us for a long time. when we got him, we got another speaker, denny hastert, who of course his career ended and everything else ended abruptly for other reasons, but we got a speaker and found very quickly with the new speaker, without the long list of resentments, all the leverage was gone. it's very interesting that we actually got more with gingrich, who was constantly fighting for his life the same way -- political life the same way mccarthy is. i'm just wondering what happens if the dog catches the car and they get mccarthy out there and suddenly you have steve scalise,

somebody like scalese stepping in there? how does that change the dynamics? >> you know, that's -- you know, we've been asking ourselves this for weeks now. i mean, what would be different for them for scalese or patrick mchenry of north carolina or even jim jordan? i mean, would that person be able to deliver on what they want? the difference what we had in 2018 when the moderate democrats were concerned about pelosi coming back, she had to cut deals, is they were moderates, the center part of the party. in this case, this is the conservatives, the fringe element of the party, the hardest faction to theparty, an pulling the party that way, can they even pass what they want? there are a bunch of house republicans sitting in biden districts, these guys on long island and new york, which helped them get to the majority, and we just saw, you know, democrats lose some of their

centrists and that cost them their majority. the same thing could happen in veers are here. i do think what scalese -- you know, scalese is very -- you know, he's conservative. i think he's probably -- some of them see him as more reliable conservative than mccarthy. i'm not sure if that's fair, but i think some of him see him that way. i think he's very strong on the oil and gas industry. coming from louisiana, you want to protect that. but i think they think they can get anything else they want from scalese. the problem is here they just, you know, again, they could end up leaving a scalese not able to govern, and how does that help them get what they want in the long run? >> co-founder of punchbowl news, john bresnahan, thank you so much. and political reporter for axios, alexi mcammond, thank you both for being on this morning. coming up on "morning joe," an update onda mar hamlin.

he's still in critical condition but may be improving. also ahead, another massive storm battles the west coast, prompting evacuations, power outages, and widespread flooding. we'll have the latest for you when "morning joe" comes right back.

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back at 9:26, 6:26 out west. there is a bit of optimism this morning for buffalo bills safety d mar hamlin with the team and his family saying the 24-year-old's condition, while still critical, is improving. this as coaches and players across the nfl prepare now to return to the field just days after hamlin's collapse. nbc news correspondent maggie vespa has the latest. >> reporter: this morning with teams preparing to hit the field

later this week. >> it's such a scary, emotional time. >> reporter: mounting support and hope for hamlin. >> great competitor. loves football. >> reporter: how is he doing today? >> all i can share is positive steps. >> reporter: 48 hours after the six-foot 200-pound safety suffered a cardiac arrest and collapsed during the matchup, the bills confirming hamlin remains in critical condition with signs of improvement. a spokesperson adding the family is optimistic. >> they have not shown one sign of weakness, one sign of negativity. >> reporter: monday's hard tackle playing out in front of 28.8 million people, the league noting they can't be sure the hit stopped hamlin's heart, the update coming alongside new details on monday's harrowing moments, the bengals head coach describing sean mcdermott's reaction. >> the first thing he aid is i need to be at the hospital with damar and shouldn't be coaching this game.

>> reporter: the president called hamlin's family. >> i don't know how you avoid it. i think working like hell on the helmets and the concussion protocols makes a lot of sense. >> reporter: off the field, hamlin is famous for his love of pittsburgh, giving back, and family. >> i don't do too much without my mom and dad's opinion. my life revolves around them. >> reporter: playing at the university of pittsburgh was always the dream, telling the student paper last year, "i wanted to give my city bragging rights." in 2020, hamlin found purpose through his toy drive, which fans are now flooding with donations, $7 million and counting. some showing support in other ways. bills fan and food blog toer madeleine hall was here for the game and stunned by hamlin's collapse. wednesday, she delivered 200 meals to hospital staff paid for by people grateful for their work, saving hamlin's life. >> they're so thankful and they kept saying we bills fans, we bills fans. >> nbc's maggie vespa with that

report. we move the idaho where the suspect in the quadruple murder of four college students is now in custody in that state. nbc news correspondent gadi schwartz has the latest. >> reporter: bryan kohberger touch do you think after a cross-country extradition flight turned over to a convoy of heavily armed local law enforcement, ready to serve him with the arrest warrant for the four murders of idaho students. overnight, authorities releasing these new mug shots of the suspect who is now being held at the county jail in moscow, the city where the victims were found stabbed to death on november 13th. next, he's expected to make an initial appearance in court where the judge will explain his rights and the charges against him. kohberger was arrested in an early morning raid at his parents' home in eastern pennsylvania last friday and agreed to be extradited to idaho. in a hearing on tuesday, his

attorney said he intends to believe not guilty. >> he believes he will be exonerated. >> reporter: body cam footage shoko berger and his father driving his white elantra to the family's home in pennsylvania. according to public records obtained by ktvb, kohberger agreed to transfer the it too offensively that car from pennsylvania to washington five days after the murder and had new washington license plates when he was pulled over. he can be heard telling the officer about an incident involving a s.w.a.t. team at washington state university. >> there was this mass shooting. >> reporter: that incident had no apparent connection to the murders in idaho a month earlier. now the quest for justice begins to play out in the county courts with victims' families and loved ones anxious for answers. >> gadi schwartz reporting there.

and now to severe weather out west. miguel almaguer has the latest. >> reporter: slamming into california and hammering the bay area overnight, this morning the powerful brunt of another dangerous storm has already triggered a statewide state of emergency. poised to deliver more daring water rescues, catastrophic flooding and widespread damage than the storm earlier this week. today, 33 million are already under flood watches. >> we need the rain, but we don't need it all at once. >> reporter: overnight in san francisco, a family rescued after a tree fell on their car and trapped them inside. firefighters using chainsaws to break it apart. as the west braces for up to 8 inches of rain, 4 feet of snow and nearly 100-mile-an-hour winds in the mountains, authorities warn roads may wash away, landslides are expected,

and drivers will be stranded. >> this may be one of the most challenging and impactful series of storms to touch down in california in the last five years. >> reporter: with emergency operation teams expecting catastrophic conditions, a bomb cyclone connected to a strong atmospheric river will wallop the west. over the next seven days, three separate atmospheric rivers could drop up to 20 inches of rain. the dumping deluge that caused this epic holiday storm has now fueled nearly 20 reported tornadoes in states like arkansas, alabama, and louisiana with the south still swamped, roads and cars vanished in georgia. now it's california in the bull's-eye all over again, another monster storm promising misery and mayhem. >> nbc's miguel almaguer with that report. still ahead on "morning

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choose acid prevention. choose nexium. so, let's work together. let's stop with the campaign smears and tactics to get people to turn against us, even having my favorite president call us and tell us we need to knock this off, i think it actually needs to be reversed. the president needs to tell kevin mccarthy that, sir, you do not have the votes and it's time to withdraw. >> kevin mccarthy has 202, 203 votes. your side has 20. so to use your words and your methodology and your math, isn't it time for you to pack it in and your side to pack it in considering he has over 200 and you have 20? >> sean, i understand the frustration. i promise you. >> i'm not frustrated. you didn't answer my question. >> we are hearing -- we are

hearing -- >> i'm not frustrated. >> -- those still voting with kevin mccarthy -- >> you're not answering my question. >> -- what we're doing and they are cheering us on. there are more for us than against us and they are waiting for kevin to concede. the american people are certainly frustrated -- >> i'm frustrated by you not answering a direct question. you said earlier today that president trump needs to tell kevin mccarthy -- >> you don't have the votes. we need to come up with a candidate to elect a speaker of the house. >> can i finish? you don't have the votes and it's time to withdraw. >> wow. republican congresswoman lauren boebert on with sean hannity last night on fox news. as we enter the third day of speaker votes and with some republicans reportedly wavering in their support of kevin mccarthy, others remain steadfast. congressman mike carey of ohio is one of them, promising, "my vote for speaker of the house will be kevin mccarthy no matter how many times it takes."

>> and the congressman joins us now. that was a couple days ago. >> still feel that way? >> i don't expect you to say two days later i've completely changed my mind. but the bigger question is, among the 201 that are still steadfast supporting kevin mccarthy, do most of them feel like you do? are they willing to fight this out with 5% 10,%? >> listen, in a democracy, when you have 5% of the people that are not supporting kevin mccarthy and 201 of us that are supporting him, yeah, i mean, we're going to back him all the way. listen, i think at the end, i know negotiations were done overnight, i think we'll get there today. my hope is we get there today and we can start doing the people's work. >> congressman, i just -- is there also an understanding -- and i don't mean for this to be a leading question, but i'm just curious, is there an understanding among the 90% that

if you guys cave to the 10% this one time at the beginning, they will own you guys for the next two years? >> listen, i think the 5%, 10% of our conference that are pushing back on kevin, they're trying to make a statement, and i believe that kevin has done everything he possibly could do make concessions. you were here in the 104th congress, joe. you know how it was. >> yeah. >> really in the 10th. i think it was more difficult in the 105th. it's a messy process. we're going to get there. i think at the end of the day kevin is going to be speaker and all of us that are supporting him and have the last six times will keep supporting him. >> there has been vote after vote after vote and the numbers really haven't changed. i guess the other side of this would be the question of what if they hold? >> what's changed is every other candidate that, you know, the 20

individuals put up. listen, they're all good members and very dear friends, many of them, but, listen, they keep changing who they're putting up for speaker. what hasn't changed is the 201 to 203 people that are supporting kevin. that's not going to change. >> good morning. appreciate your optimism that something might get done today. in your view, it will be kevin mccarthy. you just mentioned a bunch of those people, the 19 or 20 are your friends, presumably you've talked with them privately. where are their heads and how do you get to enough votes at the end of the day? i wasn't part of the negotiation process last night, but it's my understanding that they've been working through the night to try to get us to 218 or 215 or whatever the number is we have to be at. listen, i think in the end, i think we're going to be a better conference for it, and like joe said just a minute ago, i think, you know, we get this vote and then we can do the hard stuff and the stuff that's important to the american public. >> so, congressman, we're having a little debate here on the

show. >> yep. >> and also -- >> so are we. >> i know. you're having a debate. i'm saying to mika and others don't catastrophize. >> right. >> there are times i think we came in probably on january the 7th or 8th, you've got a couple of days, and yet i've heard republicans and democrats both say we need to get this set up, our committee, we have to be able to call -- >> a little dangerous. >> there are republicans and democrats who believe this is dangerous if, for instance, the house members -- the intel committee, the gang of eight can't participate in that information. where do you stand on this? if it keeps going on, is this a danger to america, or do you think it's just the way things get done? >> listen, i mean, i think we've only had two days. my hope is we get through this today and hopefully have leader mccarthy become speaker.

but the bottom line is i think we've got to get moving, and i think if you look at the commitment to america, it's a little different than the contract as you know, joe. it's a framework. and i believe that we're going to be able to debt democrats and republicans together to do something for this country. i'm excited about it. kevin mccarthy is guy that can lead us to do that. >> rep congressman mike carey of ohio, thank you. >> thank you. >> great to be with you. >> and good luck. >> see what happens. all right. we do have this news just in to us, senator debby stabenow of michigan announced just moments ago she is not running for re-election in 2024. it could be a pickup opportunity for republicans as "the hill" reports. democrats have to defend 23 senate seats in the next election, including those held by independent senators kyrsten sinema, bernie sanders, and angus king. stabenow retiring. >> jonathan lemire and willie, i

mean, obviously, a storied career for senator stabenow. >> really. >> been a real champion for mental health care through the years. jonathan, this is a swing state that deep blue this past year, but there's no guarantee that it's not going to be up in the air again in 2024. this is a heck of a challenge for democrats who are already fighting a competitive senate map in 2024. >> yeah. democrats' job just got harder to keep their majority in 2024. the map already perceived as unfriendly to them. they have to go on defense in a lot of different places, and now we have to add michigan to the list. you're certainly right, it has trended blue the last two cycles, 2020 and 2022, but it wasn't that long ago that donald trump took it in 2016. and not only is this now an open senate seat, it will be an open senate seat in presidential election year in a swing state,

so there will be a ton of attention and money spent in what is certain to be a highly competitive race. both parties feel like they have deep benches in that state. >> guys, it will also be a test for republicans. did they learn anything from 2022. look at the candidates they put up for the big races in michigan, in races like they felt a good shot at winning on paper, but then they put up these totally extreme candidates, and we've gone down the list of those and they lost. the state of michigan is blue right now because of it. will republicans sort of tack differently and learn from the losses of 2022? >> yep. coming up, a new show on broadway highlights the friendship between two of the greatest visual artists of all time, one that defined the new york city art world throughout the 1980s, the stars of "the collaboration" join us next on "morning joe." a mountain? a tree weathering a storm? (thunder) lions? nope. (lion rumbles)

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i want to make a film of our collaboration. you deserve this. so here we find the hottest new artist in new york and possibly the world at work. say hello. >> andy, come on. >> tell us, tell us why you do art. why do you do art? >> to eat. i don't know it's the one thing they let me get away with. they don't let someone like me get away with much. >> so art now is what you can get away with. that's so great. >> there's no rules. in the old days of rem brant and davinci, who is probably my favorite painter, rt art was -- well art was something everyone looked at and said i couldn't do

that. contemporary art, everyone says, i can do that. i did it. and they are right. so the value has to come from the market. >> a scene from the new broadway play the collaboration, which depicts the friendship of two of the greatest visual artists of all time. andy warhol and john michelle set in new york in 1984 as the 56-year-old warhol is waning a bit. taing the art world by storm. he agrees to collaborate with warhol on a new exhibition and it quickly becomes the talk of the city. joining us is the stars of that broadway show, award-winning actor tony bentley. he currently is nominated for a golden globe for best actor for his role in the film "the inspection" it's running through january 29th. we have a bit of an update on

that. great to see you. >> good morning. >> congratulations. your in great company and nominated for a great performance. paul, do you want to break the news? i said you're running through the 29th. >> we just got extended until february 5th, which at which point kevin mccarthy will have had 417 votes. >> how good is this guy? tieing it right into the rest of the show. >> he's going to pick up a few votes later. >> frankly, we hope you would be a break from kevin mccarthy after four hours. we'll grant you that. so jeremy, just for our viewers, i think it's important that everyone knows andy warhol. but at the time of the show, he was still up and coming. for perspective in 2017, one of paintings sold for $110 million. but who was he in 1984? >> when we meet him in our play, he's fresh off the cover of "the new york times."

and he's this young artist doing art his way. there's a cost of being on the frontline. our story begin there is. we're watching this young, black artist try to find his voice in his way through ask what type of artist he will be and what art means to hill. that's where you enter andy warhol, who has been in the art game for years and has a specific style. we kind of watch those ideas come together and sometimes clash. >> and the same question about where andy warhol is when we find him in this collaboration. he spots the new young talent and wants to glom on to it a bit. >> i think he's both fascinated by him and terrified. his relevancy, which is the thing that has made him safe in life, it must be hard being a young andy warhol in pittsburgh. i think he changed the world into seeing him as a star.

his star is definitely on the wane. i think he would have been in equal measures fascinated and also terrified about what this might mean for him. this new expressionism which must have felt like a step backwards for warhol. suddenly, not what he was doing. but the market was telling him that this is what is wanted. that must have been frightening. >> this show was a big hit in london and now on broadway. they are now making a film of the collaboration. >> so cool. so excited to see this. you have been in some of the biggest movies of all time. mika and i are sort of confession is that we absolutely loved you in a very british scandal. talk about playing a scoundrel. what a remarkable role to play. but with so many options this

front of you, i'm intrigued on what attracted you to this work specifically? >> i was a big fan of warhol and had had actually seen their collaboration remounted at the whitney. when the project came to me, i turned it down. i turned it down because i didn't know how you get underneath the sort of wig and curated public persona. but then i got sent his dire i ris. his diaries were dictated to his assistant. they are these long sentences that sounds like so uh-uh started talking to people. s they said, no n private he could be quite verbose. so i thought maybe there was a

way in. >> interesting. jeremy, i'm the daughter of an artist. i i know that for family members, we're just living in her world. because they have their own world and their own way of seeing things. it's profound to them. i'm curious about the process of getting into the head of a renowned artist and also i can't imagine two worlds of two incredible artists colliding. i don't see that working. maybe that's why this is so interesting. >> how did they coexist in the same space? >> especially two artists who feel so different. i think my way in with jean is i do believe he had a direct connection from heart/mind to canvas. he was very honest in his approach at heart. so i think for me, this is our interpretation of these souls, but it was about finding the soul and trying to get myself as

close as i could to understanding the cost of being a black artist at this time, in this space and what that means, what that might have felt like for him and the pressure and the urgency to be consistent. so it's been a beautiful journey we did it in london. we shot the movie and now we're on broadway. to be able to spend as much time as we have with these gentlemen has been a gift. it's been a dream to do that. the evolution from london to new york, this is a new york story. it's the characters. tell us about what it's like to do it night after night on broadway. >> it's been amazing. i felt likes it was a new york story and this was the perfect place for it. it's been embraced in a hult humble brag, but we get standing ovations night. it's more to do with people welcoming these icons home.

and also to add to the answer of your question, i think that's the sort of point of the piece is about two people with seemingly nothing in common finding common ground. that's an important story now. >> yes, it is. >> bringing it back to kevin mccarthy. you can't quit him. >> the collaboration playing now at the theater in new york city just a couple blocks from where we are now. as paul mentioned, it is extended through february 5th. let's hope it goes a little long we are a film to come as well. thank you both. >> thank you so much. a final thought this morning? >> first of all, i can't wait. >> i know. for so many reasons. >> it's so exciting. you talked about your mom's background. >> she had the pleasure of meeting andy warhol. >> except it wasn't that much of

a pleasure because as paul was saying, he was of a man of few words. >> i my dad was very jealous. >> but that's absolutely fascinating. also very fascinating, if we could be like paul and jump between the worlds, what's going on in washington? >> we will watch it all go down for another day and hopefully something happens that's productive. >> is it going to end today? will it ever end? >> we should pull him on the panel for tomorrow's show. he's dialled in. i wish i knew. members of congress have no idea where it's going to end. >> maybe katy tur knows a thing about it. she's going to pick up the coverage right now. >> thank you so much. >> i promise i know everything. good morning. it's 10:00 a.m. ian, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm california katy tur. there's still no speak