just look around. this digital age we're living in, it's pretty unbelievable. problem is, not everyone's fully living in it. nobody should have to take a class or fill out a medical form on public wifi with a screen the size of your hand. home internet shouldn't be a luxury. everyone should have it and now a lot more people can. so let's go. this hour, -- the digital age is waiting. in for the salmon and as, it's been a delight to be with you. you can see my show some on saturdays and sundays at 4 pm eastern, right here on msnbc. and i will see you here tomorrow for more american voices, but right now, it is time for ayman. hey, ayman, how are you? >> i am good, i am, recovering

from last night. i've had the distinct pleasure of staying up till three a.m.. >> when i was doing my face tough, i looked at the tv and said i will turn this on. >> i totally feel you because it was a long night. to be honest with you, i thought it was done at around 11:45, when they said they would adjourn until monday, and then in typical d.c. fashion, i don't know what kind of system allows you to change or vote but, it's the hill, so you could do whatever you want. >> it's the red part of the hill. i'm looking for to watching a show this evening. i know you have great guest. >> thank you so much, enjoy the rest of your evening off. good evening, to you, welcome to ayman. kevin mccarthy banks, borrows and steals and a 15-day battle to become how speaker, but it is just the start of republican chaos, as a group of extremist lawmakers that in their grasp over the republican party, two years after the january six insurrection. some promising steps forward in the fight across the country for abortion rights, with about

that and much more, i am ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. ♪ ♪ ♪ in the early hours of saturday morning, the fifth longest speaker voted in american history finally came to an end. >> therefore, the honorable kevin mccarthy of the state of california, having received a majority of the votes cast is duly elected speaker of the house of representatives. [applause] [applause] in case you lost count on the 15th round of voting, the republican party selected mccarthy as their leader, closing out a humiliating four-day affair, but it was hardly a resigning yes. in the end, mccarthy received 216 votes with all six of his remaining gop detractors, agreeing to vote president, effectively helping to lower the number of votes needed to help him win the coveted gavel.

now that final tally only came after mccarthy was seen on camera literally begging holdout congressman matt gates to change his vote. at one point, the term for fight almost took on a literal meaning, right there, you can see congressman mike rogers having to be physically restrained after he lunged at gates. this morning's result can hardly be seen as a victory. in exchange for the new office, the speaker made some major concessions to his party's extreme right wing fashion, including reinstating a role that would allow is angle lawmaker to power to force a vote to ask the speaker at anytime. he also agreed to see freedom caucus members on key committees. early today, senate majority leader chuck schumer blasted mccarthy for those concessions, forecasting what the next two years would be, saying in part, nightmare for the american people.

he went on to right, republicans have a choice to make, will they continue to capitulate to the extreme maga republicans who want to hold our country hostage, or will they stand up to them? we'll, if history is any indicator, schumer and the rest of us should hold our breath for the latter. as former republican spokesperson and friend of the shirt cola in a new piece for the los angeles times, this week's fiasco should hardly come as a surprise. it's been brewing for years. in fact, back in 2014, republican house majority leader, remember him, eric kanter, he lost his primary to a right wing challenger. kanter's loss can now be seen as perhaps the first victory for the extreme wing of the gop against the party so-called establishment. but in the following year, the establishment suffered another embarrassing defeat, when house speaker john boehner was forced to resign due to mounting pressure from the freedom caucus and now, less than a

decade later, members from that very same caucus have successfully exploited the speakership, proving that time and time again, the republican party will always cave to the most extreme voices with in their caucus, not stand up to them. kurt bardella joins me now, as i mentioned, a former republican spokesperson, not serving as an adviser to the democratic national committee. also with us, michelle goldberg, columnist for the new york times and msnbc political analyst. it's good to have both of you with us. michelle, start with you. i want to get your reaction to how this went down this morning. i have seen, and yes, it is mostly in conservative republican circles, some who have framed this as a mccarthy successfully beating back the far-right opposition are bringing them in line, and that this was how democracy is exercise. do you see it that way? >> i mean, this is how republican democracy is exercised. the republican party is the

party of minority rule. that is what we have seen in this beaker fight. look, i don't see how anybody confirmed this as a victory for mccarthy, unless he is prepared to pull a double cross on these freedom caucus holdouts because they still have not voted on this rules package, and there's at least moderate republican who said that they're not going to vote on it, vote for it. i am not quite clear why a lot of these moderate republicans, is an oxymoron, but less extreme republicans, from biden winning districts, why don't vote on a package that hands over the power of their caucus to met gaetz and laura boebert and marjorie taylor greene and the rest of them, give them outside power on the rules committee and probably gives them gavels that would otherwise go to lawmakers. i'm not sure what's in it for all these other republicans to go along with this. it's probably worth noting that this rule that would allow any

one member of congress to call a snap election for speaker has not been passed it. so, again, maybe they're all going to get in line, if so, it will be a lesson through the entire party that only the far-right hold power, and that the moderates will always roll over, so there is no need to take their interest into account, but i still don't think it is 100 percent sewn up. >> kurt, put this week into context for us, how does mccarthy's fight fit into the story of the republican party over the last decade, something that you ever in about bill connect the dots for our viewers? >> we have seen over the last decade the steady erosion of what used to be the traditional republican establishment led by folks like john boehner, paul ryan, air canter. it's not a accident that the rise of the extremist republican party has happened, those voices have all withdrawn from the fight. they took their ball and went

home. some lost their races like aaron candidate. boehner and ryan, they left congress altogether. they have no desire to be part of this anymore, and here we are now a decade later, and the leader of the republican party, the speaker of the house, he got there by capitulating to these voices. he got there by making deals that would not make it easier for even more extremists to enter congress, to have more power in congress, to wield more authority in congress, and it's a cycle that just won't break. we always talk about how the republican party got to this point, and there is this conversation about donald trump hijacking the party. donald trump did not hijack the party, the party surrendered itself. it just rolled over without a fight, as much as a whimper, just the way kevin mccarthy did in order to become speaker and name only. let's face it, that's all that he is. he is a figurehead. he is like the queen of england at this point, no actual authority, no ability to actually do anything.

marjorie taylor greene and lauren boebert and matt gaetz and jim jordan and james -- that who is who's running the show right now. let's be clear, there's no moderate republican party. the fact that marjorie taylor greene, the one aligned with kevin mccarthy, tells you that there is no moderate wing anymore. they're gone, dead, voices in powerless. >> michelle, mccarthy's gavel came at a steep cross. we'll learn more when the rules committee and rule procedures and committee is announced, but he agreed to a number of concessions, including committing to sharp spending cuts, curbs on his own power, as he already given the extremist wing of this party all the leverage? is there any power left in kevin mccarthy's position? >> no, the only power left for those who are opposed to the handful of holdouts would be to vote down this rules package,

assuming this rules package goes through, it's a package that is expressly designed to put all of the power in the most extreme wing of this already very extreme party, and if it means not just no matter what, there would be an investigation into hunter biden, a lot of circus like committees, but i think this calls into question certainly whether it is congress is going to be capable of keeping the government open and even more ominously, whether they will be capable of raising the debt limit and avoiding a default that would cause a global economic crisis. >> kurt, there were tense moments on the house floor this week, most notably that confrontation we have been showing between rodgers and gaetz. you worked on the hill. have you ever seen anything like that? do you think we will see more of this kind of behavior over the next two years? it's not something that i as an

observer of american politics has seen before. that does not mean it has not happened before but, you probably know better than me. >> i think that behind closed doors, there have been moments where things got tense between members, and where things can get very personal with members. remember, whenever there is someone that skin something through negotiation, that usually means that somebody has lost something at the other and that deal, and i think we're seeing the tip of the iceberg of how that will play out with the caucus. i think if anything, what unfolded on the floor is the best reason why c-span should be given free rein to be able to show those types of interactions. we've never seen that before because we've never had a type of camera access on the floor of the house of representatives like that, so it was a very interesting dynamic at play, and i do think that the real tension that will come to a head here is that there will be times where this wing of the party is going to want to do things that the other members

know is either stupid, political suicide or just won't play well for them. we talk about the investigation, every one of these investigations is designed to get to a point where they can successfully try to impeach president joe biden. they have said this before. during the election, we heard members like marjorie taylor greene wanting to impeach the president. there will be a collision with other members that want to, hold on a second, nobody else wants that. these people, these extremists, they're going to try to fight for that, and i don't know how kevin will run for any for that. >> before our viewers don't know, the c-span antidote isn't interesting fun fact. we have learned, and i'm sure a lot of d.c. insiders knew that she spent as not control its cameras when there is a speaker of the house. the reason why we were able to get those shots was there wasn't a speaker at the house, so c-span was allowed to shoot whatever it wanted to shoot, and you're able to see these interesting moments of color over the past four days. i am with her on this one, i

think c-span should have control of its cameras. michelle, before we go, i do want to ask you, and we really can talk about the gop caving to far-right actors without mentioning donald trump. i want you to listen to mccarthy just this morning thanking the ex president for his help in courting votes. watch. >> i do want to especially thank president trump. i don't think anyone should doubt his influence. he was with me from the beginning. somebody that it if he was there, and he was all in. he really was, i was just talking to him tonight, helping get those final votes. >> that's quite the change in tune considering mccarthy said this on a call with colleagues just two years ago. >> let me be very clear to all of you, and i've been very clear to the president. he bears responsibility for his words and actions, no ifs, ands

or buts. i asked him personally today, does he hold responsibility for what happened? there's a feel bad about what happened? he told me he does have some responsibility for what happened. and he needed to acknowledge that. >> i've had it with this guy. what he did is unacceptable. nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it. >> of course, that condemnation was short lived. the weeks later, he'd make the pilgrimage down to mar-a-lago to kiss trump's ring, so michelle, as mccarthy's bet on the ex president influence paid off? >> look, i think that trump is a weekend figure in the republican party but mccarthy is far weaker than trump, and i don't think anyone would argue with trump has no influence in the republican party. it's a measure of his diminished influence that only on the 15th ballot was he able to twist a few arms to get people to vote present, right? that's the kind of extent of

his endorsement of a man that he calls, quote unquote, my kevin. so he has some sway, but he certainly is not a kingmaker, and he obviously was not able to prevent this debacle from playing out over several days. >> i think nothing exemplifies that more than matt gaetz. >> just to remember to, ayman. the bill will be due for that. donald trump will expect something in return. everything for him is transactional. kevin will have to pay that bill at some point. >> i was going to say to michel 's point, when you saw that moment where matt gaetz nominated donald trump but still would not be present for kevin mccarthy until the end, i think that is an example of just how much -- >> lookout nobody else joint that, right? >> exactly, her and michelle, stick around. we have a lot more to discuss, we'll see you later in the hour. we witnessed the power of election deniers this week. next, i will ask michigan attorney general how she is continuing to deal with the big

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your local xfinity store today. well, we fell in love through gaming. but now the internet lags and it throws the whole thing off. when did you first discover this lag? i signed us up for t-mobile home internet. ugh! but, we found other interests. i guess we have. [both] finch! let's go! oh yeah! it's not the same. what could you do to solve the problem? we could get xfinity? that's actually super adult of you to suggest. i can't wait to squad up. i love it when you talk nerdy to me. guy, guys, guys, we're still in session. >> in the end, six far-right and i don't know what the heck you're talking about.

republican switch their vote to present in a week long that doc at the house to elect kevin mccarthy how speaker. these extremists have led efforts to try to keep trump in power after the 2020 presidential election. all but one voted to decertify the results of the election and voice support for the capital right. democrats have been capitalizing on the chaos among republicans and tying it all back to the january 6th capitol attack that happened two years ago this week. representative andy custard of new hampshire told axios, quote, the whole campus is aware of this juxtaposition of these two dates and what they're attempting to do, which is to disrupt our democracy. excuse me -- joining me now to discuss this is attorney general of michigan dana nessel. madam attorney general, good to

see you again, thank you for joining us. these last six republican holdouts, they are election deniers. i want to get your thoughts on what this tells you about the power election deniers and election denialism still has, and how it has jumped, if you will, from the rioters outside the capitol into the halls of power two years later? >> we're still struggling with that here in the state of michigan, and i should say that even though the election deniers, who are running for all our top offices in michigan, including governor, secretary of state and attorney general, they may have lost by large margins, but many of them are running to be the chair of the michigan republican party. one of them is likely to be elected to that position by the party. so you're going to have election deniers that remain in

charge of the entirety of that michigan republican party here in the state of michigan. i think that is very bad news, and it means that election denialism is not going away. it will continue to be a presence and continue to be something that we will fight vigorously against for the foreseeable future. >> what precedent does the infighting within the gop set for the next two years. when you think about the republican party as the swings that have emerged on a national level in congress, you see it play out with in michigan local politics within the republican party? >> absolutely, unfortunately at the state level, the democrats have flipped both the house and the senate, which is the first time it's happened in many decades, but if you look at, for instance, county commissions across the state of michigan, people don't normally pay attention to until your

county commission has been overtaken by people who don't believe in science, who don't understand how education works and who have these really far right radical ideas about what governing actually means. unfortunately, what it means in many instances is not getting anything realistic done, you have the people that you're there to serve, and i think that's what we will see in the united states house of representatives, a whole lot of nothing, nothing actually being accomplish that will help every day americans, and that is incredibly unfortunate. >> let me ask you about your state for a moment. on friday, you reopen an investigation into the 16 republican electors who falsely claimed that donald trump won michigan in the 2020 election. setting new evidence released by the january six committee. michigan gop coach chair has already basically outlined their alternate electors.

your reaction to the about how you came to the decision to reopen the investigation. what was the new evidence that compelled you to do so? >> look, there has been a mountain of evidence in this case, honestly, since the beginning. we referred it, along with others the a.g.'s in swing states, to the federal authorities and the department of justice. i assume it's continuing to investigate, but we're really at a point where it's hard to make sense why with this evidence that you see that has been presented by the general six committee, why we wouldn't charge under state law, when we have the evidence to do so and the law supports those charges. obviously, the federal authorities, i'm sure it will continue to move forward.

the way i see it, here in the state of michigan, it's a 14th felony to pass a bad check. every day in my department, we issued charges of welfare fraud, unemployment insurance fraud, things are relatively minor, compared to the offense of using a document to overturn a presidential election where over 5.5 million people voted in our state. it's really hard for me to explain to my constituents, and it's hard for me to reconcile personally why it is that if you have enough money and influence and power, that you could get away with just about any crime. i don't think that that is a good policy, and i don't think it is what the people who elected me to office want to see, and that's why i think it is time to move forward on this matter and to resume our investigation. >> speaking of moving forward,

i do have to ask you this question about michigan politics. michigan senator announced she would not be running for senate in the next election cycle. i know you just won yours. have you given any thought about that, whether that is a position you would like to know your hat in the ring for? >> first of all, senator stabenow has served the state of michigan and the entire united states of america with dignity and honor for over 20 years, and so many of us are heartbroken to be losing her from the senate, but i appreciate your question, everyone from my mother to the guy who works at the speedway down the street things that might be the governor to a guy whose profile is the hamburger lure on twitter, having clamoring to know whether or not i would throw my name in the hat for the united states senate. but the good people of the state elected me to be attorney general for the next four

years. that's where i think i can do the most good, and that's where i intend to stay. >> you have a standing by to come back and at msnbc hosted a growing list of people that would love to know whether or not you will throw your hat into the ring. attorney general dana nessel, always a pleasure, thank you for making time for us. >> thanks for having me. >> let's bring back msnbc political analysts michelle goldberg. michelle, we have been discussing because the played out among republicans this week. given how clearly divided the republican party is, what realistically do you think they will be able to accomplish in the next two years if anything? there's obviously a divide congress and senate, it's unlikely anything uniform will come out of it based on what kevin mccarthy was signaling last night in his speech. is there anything substitute in that republicans are likely to do the next two years? >> i think it really depends on what you mean by accomplish. one of the most striking things about this whole fight was how little policy substance there was. it was a fight over power,

attitude, visibility, but there was not really anything policy disagreements. part that is because, can you name five things that the republican party wants to accomplish besides building a wall and giving amnesty to some of the january six insurgence? i think what the republican party always wanted to accomplish by taking back the house, they want to shut down the government. they want to try to force spending cuts through some sort of spun down over the debt ceiling and spending cuts including social security, medicare, medicaid, including the fence mending, military, and i think they want to conduct a lot of investigations, as kurt said, to an impeachment of joe biden, probably, of secretary mayorkas and other members of the biden administration. i think what we were going to

see is benghazi times 100. we will see a lot of investigations into hunter biden, into anthony fauci. we're probably going to see maybe a counter investigation of the january six committee that is meant to discredit it. and we will see some kind of extortion it used of congressional spending power to try to interfere with the investigation against donald trump. >> michelle goldberg, always a pleasure, thank you so much for your time. coming up, biden honors more than a dozen people two years after the january six insurrection, at their a group led by election deniers there and to overpower the republican party. stay with us. stay with us

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speaker vote, president biden marks two years since the january 6th riot by honoring election officials and capitol police officers. he awarded 14 people including former officer michael fanone and michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. with presidential citizens medal. president biden posthumously honored officer sicknick who died suffering from two strokes. -- a wrongful death suit against donald trump against two men involved in assaulting sicknick that down the capitol. let's bring back my legal panel barbara mcquade and alice kushner, legal analyst for msnbc. it's good to have you with us. barbara, does the 16 have a case, here is trump in some way liable, can be held liable in sicknick's death? >> the complaint brought by his family members alleges things like assault, aiding and abetting assault, violation of a ku klux klan act and wrongful death.

i think the challenge for them will be to legal up illegally trump's actions inciting the mob that day and results that occurred. and the question for a jury to decide is the causation question. was it reasonably foreseeable for donald trump when he engaged in those acts to inside the mob? that's a serious injury or death could result from his words? that will be a jury question, but sure, i think they've got absolutely a chance to be able to make that case. there is again $10 million and damages. and it's not instead of but in addition to criminal liability. civil i ability can be an important way of holding people accountable. >> glenn, attorney general merrick garland put out a statement this week highlighting the work that the department of justice has made with its arrest and charges of those attacked. who attacked the capitol saying in part, quote, i'm working as far from over. what work can be done from the doj now that the january 6th committee has been dissolved? >> the january 6th committee,

ayman, provided a treasure trove of information. much as i suspect and potentially incriminating information. some 12 hound should transcripts to the department of justice. i have to believe that that's councils key, is working overtime for those transcripts. something that they will have to do involves triage. we'll have to decide who will be the most important witnesses for purposes of their criminal investigation of the insurrection and then they're gonna have to go about preparing those witnesses to go into the grand jury. it's no small feat because federal prosecutors will have to sit down with each witness, review their transcript, see if there are any corrections or revisions that need to be made and then present that witness to the grand jury. that typically what prosecutors will do under the circumstances is half the witness adopt the transcript as the substance of their grand jury testimony, and

then as follow-up questions which saves a little bit of time. but it really is a herculean effort that that was -- has ahead of it. >> speaking of jack smith, barbara, he's returned to the u.s., he can begin his investigations in earnest, if you. well he's working on two fronts, january 6th, mar-a-lago documents. what do you expect to see from these probes over the next couple of months? what should outside observers be looking for, if anything? >> i think the thing to be looking for is seeing small minor charges against the lower level participants in either or both of these criminal schemes. that is a sign that they're working their way up the chain. if i'm working with jack smith, what i would be looking for these transcripts, the treasure trove that glenn just spoke of, is there anybody in this group that we can flip? somebody who has some criminal exposure but whose conduct maybe not so egregious that we'd be willing to cut them a break and recommended sentencing protection and a chance for truthful testimony. so i've been looking at some of

those players kind of right there in the inner circle. maybe jeffrey clark, john eastman, tom klukowski, some of those people who may have been involved in this game and would rather be witnesses than defendants. i think if we see charges against those individuals, that could be a sign that the prosecutors are trying to flip them. same in the mar-a-lago case. you may see some of these lawyers who signed these documents saying that they've turned everything over, or other people i know there's been some talk that the valet who gave statements to the fbi first was not as forthcoming as he later was. that is somebody who also has potential criminal exposure. if you see criminal charges against lower level people you will know that they're working the way up the chain. >> glenn, there was a federal judge who's ordered trump's lawyers to provide the government the names of private investigators he hired to search his properties for any classified material still in his possession. what does this mean for smith's investigation? >> it means the federal prosecutors are pushing as hard

as they can to make sure they get all the evidence of potential crimes by donald trump. they're in a bit of an investigative quagmire, ayman, because of the kind of unusual procedures that the employee. they get back all the evidence of crime that was located at mar-a-lago and elsewhere. whereas i think they're in this procedural quagmire. i don't think they're in a subset of quagmire because there's so much evidence, the department of justice we [inaudible] controlled and then begged and pleaded and ultimately subpoenaed these documents from donald trump, and then when they finally had the resort to a federal search warrant, lo and behold, there were more classified documents found, where? in the drawers of donald trump 's desks. so i think substantively, this case is not going to be hard to proof once it moves into court. i think procedurally, they are wrestling with a little bit of

an investigative crack mayer. >> barbara >> barbara, with a mix of some of the bombshell reports of the committee and our final report, i should say, these bombshells, including testimony from jared kushner that trump told him that he wanted to trade mark the term, rigged election? what you make of these revelations, and are they significant? >> i think there are a lot of things like that that are interesting, but i don't know if they advance the ball in terms of a criminal investigation. that's one of the jobs of prosecutors, is to look at these kind of facts and assess. the questions we used to ask ourself all the time is, is a crime or slime? distinguishing between the two, something like that sound slimy, but it is probably not part of the crime. i suppose it could add a little color, but i don't know if it gets you further on proving crimes like obstruction of an official proceeding. i think what prosecutors look for are the elements of crimes. there have been referrals for for crimes that the justice

department is not limited to those four, but it wants to look for evidence that could build on the elements of those offenses. i think that's what they will be looking for, and a committee has provided him with a lot of evidence on which they can build a kind of case. >> i was going to say, i don't think there are enough buckets in this country to deal with all the slime that came out of the trump administration. barbara mcquade, stay around, glenn kirschner, thank you for your insight as always. next, new reporting is growing scrutiny over george santos is blue -- after an awkward meeting on capitol hill. we'll tell you more about that. ou more about that we have a denture problem. over. roger that. with polident cleanser and polident adhesive refresh and secure for any close encounter. if your mouth could talk it would ask for polident and poligrip. i'm javi, i'm 31, and i'm a fitness instructor. i saw myself in a photograph. and we were all smiling, and i looked closer, and i was like that- that's what everybody sees?

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ripley, that's the moniker some on twitter have awkwardly given to representative george santos who was officially sworn into the 118th u.s. congress last night after weeks of headlines documenting how major aspects of his background turned out to be flat out lies.

from his education to his work history, to his finances, even his religious identity. there was even a bizarre made-up story about him and his family overseeing more than a dozen properties. santos has since admitted to not owning any properties. but there is renewed scrutiny over his living situation, and in turn, his finances and his own donations to his campaign. after being spotted moving into his sisters queens new york apartment, the new daily beast -- excuse me, the daily beast -- is reporting that according to court records, she is being evicted for nearly $40,000 in unpaid rent. such as told the publication that he was only living there temporarily but he consistently listed the location as his address on federal campaign penance loans. george santos has apologized for his lies and and belching his resume but has not responded to inquiries from and pc news. nevertheless, the media firestorm around him made him both a spectacle and a pariah

in the halls of congress this week. images like these showing him looking like a loner as most of his colleagues avoided being caught interacting with him. joining me once again are kurt bardella and barbara mcquade. kurt, i will start with you. i'm sure it's hard to choose but, what is your favorite george santos lie of the week? >> how! well, i think there are too many to choose from. i think my favorite one is when you put out the press release saying he was a member of congress and sworn in and they hadn't been sworn in yet. it's not even the volume of lies at this point it's how awfully bad at the fedex they are. it strikes me at times. and the thing that i keep going back to in my mind as i watched the saga unfold, i seem to remember a great many republicans clamoring to see barack obama's birth certificate based on absolutely nothing. just innuendo remainers, basic

theories. i want to know why they aren't insisting on that same level of transparency for someone that is a proven liar, a proven fraud. someone who clearly isn't something that he makes himself out to be. do even know that this is his real name, do we know that he's an american citizen, that he's eligible to be a member of congress? given the volume of lies that we have been privy to, here, i think every single element of this person needs to be turned upside down and verify because he might not be eligible to be a member of congress if we got the full truth out of him. >> something tells me that it will go in that direction, the investigation at least. and brings me to this question, barbara, this is an absurd story. we can joke around about it a little bit. but george santos could be in real trouble here. legally. he's the subject of several different investigations right now and they could have some serious consequences. >> yes, i think just the sheer

volume of the lies has to cause prosecutors to be looking at things like campaigns finance filings. candidates are required to report all sorts of things, their sources of income, their sources of donations, they're spending, and there have been some really eyebrow raising expenditures that he has claimed. like brooke's brother shirts for his staff and really high hotel bills for himself and airline travel for himself. so those kinds of things, if inaccurate and signed as true, can be the basis for crimes. i also think that it wouldn't surprise me to see prosecutors examining his conduct for plain old fashioned fraud, wire fraud, soliciting donations from voters and political supporters, based on lies that he put on the internet. that would be the case for waterfront case. i think there's a possibility. i think there's also the

possibility an old brazilian fraud investigation has been rekindled because prosecutors who had lost track of him suddenly know where he is in new york and have resuscitated an old case about him as well. so i think that there are potential criminal exposure is that he will have to be dealing with in the coming year. >> i'm saying i'm starting to think that the moniker of the talented mr. ripley is not so awkward maybe he's not as talented as he think he was. kurt, you've got connections and republican circles, certainly a lot better than i do. what do they think of this guy? even the republicans think this guy is, i don't know what they think, you tell me. >> kryptonite. i think there's a reason why there are so many photos of him sitting alone all week. who the heck wants to be seen next time? they see him as nothing else but a liability. kevin mccarthy desperately needed every vote he could possibly must, are so he stayed out of this entire conversation while trying to negotiate his way to the speakership. but i think we know why that

was. now that that's behind them, i don't think that you're gonna be seeing a whole lot of folks clamoring to be seen with mr. centers. i think will be interesting to see, in fact, what committees they end up putting this guy on. because he can make a very serious case that he really shouldn't be on any committees right now, there are massive conflicts of interest. play if there ever was a target for corruption, someone you could look at from the outside and go, gee, i thought this guy could take a bribe, he could be the. when he's clearly unfit to serve in congress but -- >> did you not get the pressure leak -- i was going to say did you get not the pressure leak that he's going to be top of the service committee? i'm joking. >> the way that kevin mccarthy negotiates, you might as well have given that away for a wino. >> barbara, chuck jeanne tweeted something this week how to prosecutors in -- have cited their decision to hold their seats rather than resign as reason to impose a

harsher sentence. your thoughts on that. is it smarter for santos to hold onto the seat for a shred of political protection, or is a better for him to resign? >> i don't know if it's a political calculation. i suppose it could be when you abuse a position of trust and you are in a position of authority, it could be a basis for increasing a sentence. but i think prosecutors -- the fact that he's an office, need to see him as a potential threat. i worry about him as a potential national security threat. i don't have any basis for that other than speculation. but when you're an executive branch and an employee, you go through an exhaustive background investigation one of the things that i want to know is do we have any reason to believe that this person has told lies for which they could be blackmailed? someone could reveal the truth that could cause them embarrassment and could compromise their ability to serve. we do want to give that kind of a person classified information or access to the levers of power.

is the reason to believe that george santos is in that category or is he beyond shame and he doesn't care where these lies come out. i don't want the truth is there. but i think that prosecutors would have their eyes on him simply because he is a risk of national security, of corruption, as curtis said. i think that makes him a target against which they must feel a little bit of urgency to find out what he's all about. >> we will see where this goes, i'm sure a lot of still unanswered questions or worth getting to the bottom of. barbara mcquade, kurt bardella, thanks for joining us this evening. next, we have good news on abortion access in this country. i will explain that after the break. th break. hey, man. nice pace! clearly, you're a safe driver. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance... ...so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] whoo!

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and get the unlimited plan that your business deserves. on the network america relies on. >> all right, this week we saw some winds on the abortion as this front after the food and drug administration make quiet changes for pharmacies to sell abortion pills. doctors -- under a certified health provider, but any pharmacy that agrees to accept the prescription meat so criteria can provide the pills. this comes as the justice department also said that the u.s. postal service can continue to deliver prescription abortion pills siding with the agency that any state laws that might apply to the shipment of this prescription drugs cannot be applied to postal service employees who are complying with their duties under federal law. on thursday, the south carolina supreme court struck down the states six-week abortion ban

ruling the privacy rights are protected under the states constitution. but we know the fight for abortion rights continues in idaho, the state supreme court upheld their abortion restrictions. we will be keeping an eye on how this fight plays out throughout the country this year. back after this. ♪ ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪ >> coming up on the second hour

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of eamonn, what the never spectacle of the house spectacle