>> thanks for joining us this morning and watching the katie phang show. velshi is next. >> there are, though she

president biden is taking on a policy issue that republicans have been trying to turn into a dangerous political. weapon the president sending to the southern border this morning and then on to mexico city. we have a live report from el paso coming. a plus, what history tells us about what might be next in a bitterly divided u.s. congress, and why the speaker fight is not democracy at work. i somewhat have you. believe she received one of the highest civilian honor in the united states on friday, for her role in protecting democracy in the aftermath of the 2020 election. but today, the michigan secretary of state -- tell me about the bottles that still lie ahead. the book club creature has stories, a police brutality, and white allyship. which one suggests should be taught alongside the classic to kill a mockingbird. others wanted. band will talk about why this book is so, important in the incredible story of how it is two coauthors met. velshi begins now.

good, morning it is sunday january. eight i'm ali velshi. for many in the past, week kevin mccarthy -- for speaker of the house was a captivating story. follow it was dramatic, unpredictable, and unlike anything we have seen in modern history on the house floor. -- it's just been a part of modern american politics. doesn't mean that the votes for speaker have ben -- or. unanimous even into pelosi faced opposition in your 2019 bid for, speaker with 50 members of her own party running against her. when democrats had a bigger majority that year than -- it does now they were afraid to lose some votes, still handling the speakership. what brought mccarthy apart is the republican party's inability to resolve its issues, what's ahead of the speakership vote. -- the public spectacle that exposed the refs within their own party. a true battle for the speaker's

gamble is actually a rare impermanence in american history. and entire century has passed since the last time an election for speaker went past the first ballot. mccarthy's bid was only the 15th time, i have 118 congress in american history, the multiple ballots have been needed. there were only four other instances in american history when the speakership vote went on longer than it did this past week, and all four up and in the 1800s. that was narrow and political parties were influx, factors were ideologically split over the issue of slavery. take the 16th congress as an. example henry clay was initially elected as a speaker at the start of the terminating 1960s. but he opted to step on in the middle of his term, shortly after congress negotiated the missouri compromise. which resulted in the admission of missouri as a slave state, and maine is a non-slave state. in the course of the debates for the missouri, comprised john w taylor and abolitionist of the congressman from new

york emerged is a leading voice against slavery. they gave passionate speeches and essays admitting missouri as a slave state, and even offered an amendment to the missouri compromise that would have outlawed slavery, next to the mississippi. >> -- >> his pureness that he was a skilled politician. taylor became the anti slavery or candidate. still, it took 22 ballots before he was elected speaker that. year as political factions realigned to coalesce around him. but he faced greater oddly here, later when he ran to be reelected speaker of the 17th congress. after 12 ballots, he was ousted from the position and replaced by philipp barber, a slave owner from virginia. in the years leading up to the civil war, the fight for slavery would become even more of a central issue in the contest for the speakership of the house.

a very different situation from what we witnessed played in the house this past week. for one thing, matt gates and the rest of the anti-mccarthy hard-liners did not seem to oppose the rest of their party on any ideological basis. they had domains that caused mayhem to stop government and win power for themselves. maybe some appearances on right-wing tv. but like previous estimates over the speakership, not only did this fight reveal the fractures within the party, it may have further aggravated those tensions. joining me now is michael best to us, and nbc presidential historian and author of the book, presidents of war, the epic story because no seven in modern times. and several other books. of course, this is to impress michael beschloss, an actual historian, with our little bit of history this morning. >> you. did it was wonderful. >> thank you. this one made it into the history. books it was up there and it was contentious battles for the speakership. can someone tell, you that is

fine. that is how messy democracy sometimes works. but the viewers were to sort of and do that by saying, are you better off but we just saw, or worse off because of what just happened? >> we are worse off. and i thought you would say that beautifully. i can barely add anything to what you have said. so eloquently. but, ali here is why we are worse off. you mentioned that there were also ballot elections for speaker. 1850, 8:44 ballots. we are struggling over ugly divisions -- it was an ugly time. nine ballots because in the 1923, that he was probably the peak of the influence of the ku klux klan in america. and the statues were going up all over the south. another ugly time. but you got not only the ugly divisions in 2023, you got a

spectacular week, lying kevin mccarthy, who does not have defined views of his own as far as we can see. he doesn't want to exercise strong leadership in the matter of -- and i will also say nancy pelosi, same and other strong leaders of history. this was a tragic comedy. ballots, you saw the speaker covered mccarthy not saying this is what we stand for. if we are not unified behind these ideas, give the speakership to someone else. instead, it was like somebody going from person to person, going back into the floor of a house for the next two years. battle make the move for me for speaker. it was embarrassing. it was a margin of the republicans, had this is going to be a free-for-all, especially with this possibility that anyone on the house republican side can say, i want a new. speaker that could happen

hourly. >> when you look at all those races for speakership, that took several votes to get there, as you just outlined in the couple of, them there were some overriding, probably ideological issues. in this particular case, there was a hidden, hand maybe not that hit, that initially the 20 people who voted mccarthy and then the six in the anti voted present, they all had two things in common. they were election deniers and they were trump activists. >> that does not bode. well that is almost scarier. the good thing is that the republicans had such a narrow margin, so it is going to be harder for them to express themselves. but you have a speaker, and the first thing he did after mccarthy won is he gives the speech saying, i also miss donald trump. he has so much influence. and marjorie taylor greene is waving her telephone with d.c. on and calls to donald trump.

we're in a situation where speaker is owned by a president who committed an insurrection in literally the same house chamber, and which the sky was elected speaker, two years before that. it is just amazing to think this could happen in america. >> i am always curious when historians like, you when you watch things going, on how you evaluate immediately whether these are historically important things or not? you mention marjorie taylor greene and i think of laura boebert, matt gates, who were sitting together the whole time during this. then your, santos by, the way who should've next to matt gates and seemed to attach himself to this thing. this it is easy for some of us, i brought some of my, viewers to discount all four of these as anomalies and strange characters. except matt gates, for better or for, worse like him or, not controlled the agenda. you control the narrative until it ended, on saturday morning. >> in a, way he is the speaker.

because usually you've got people who are members of the party and maybe crazy like, santos are moving on the fringe like gates, not in terms of ideology necessarily, which is wild behavior. but because sam -- or nancy pelosi, usually those people are pretty afraid of expressing themselves. , otherwise nancy pelosi would have the office from her only floyd woke. -- this will be too extreme. kevin mccarthy is a future who turns his back, because i do not fear the leader. >> i want to ask you about two references that kevin mccarthy made in that speech that he's been waiting all week to make. two historical references. important. once what is like? it everybody in folks. lincoln everybody always wants to be in the shadow, working like lincoln. i'm curious as to how the comparison works for you. another, a little more unusual and abstract.

it's the, imagery the painting of washington crossing the potomac. that was a bit windy and it took a while to make the point. but he was trying to establish his historical relevance, or the things that influence him. and it will influence him a speaker. what do you make of those two things? >> a, joke jay okay, easy because washington and lincoln are two of the strongest and most sublime political leaders in american history. if you do not have washington's strength, this country would not have been one of the revolutionary -- and presidencies would not have been formed. the first presidenta. years lincoln said that this house cannot be divided, half sleep in half free. we can't compromise with slavery. the president in 1860 with those views, do not elect. may you take lincoln out of the occasion, we would have at least two countries. now slavery might even still be operating. those are what strongly years

are. kevin mccarthy made a mockery this week, of the idea of strong leadership. leadership is not running after your followers and saying, i am desperate for a job, i'll do anything you want me to if you will get me the time. strong leadership is the opposite. >> i want to ask you about hakeem jeffries. many people in this country have not heard hakeem jeffries. we have interviewed him several times. but that speech that he delivered, it might have been the speech you would have delivered a few had become speaker of the house. it was a very impassioned speech. what did you make of it? >> it was somebody who knows history and understands the idea that parties are not there just to grab power. they are there to try to bring certain ideas to government. it's not just have their names over a door and smile for pitchers. they are there to exercise leadership, and sometimes a -- people in his party or her

party, might turn against somebody because they disagree with the ideas. and that speaker should be perfectly happy to step down and in the service of a larger idea. that was something that we heard hakeem jeffries convey. one other, thing ali, is that we talked this week about the democrats denial through all those 15 ballots. and you mentioned earlier the fact that nancy pelosi certainly a people vote against her when she ran for speaker. if you are looking for the strength in hakeem jeffries, that does not just happen by accident. his fellow democrats voted for him, unanimously. out of respect. but also out of understanding that they wanted to follow his leadership. we saw ceo of that on the other. sign >> it is, not as, always to talk. you thank you for. joining us he is an nbc news presidential historian. the author of several important books including presidents war. more on the fallout from the gop's a bittersweet battle in

congress or the. show including with history tells us about what is next, and what is really behind the chaos we witnessed all. we, plus the latest on the warren. ukraine this isn't a colonel alexander vindman helps us understand exactly why america and the west must continue to stay the course in ukraine. we will also call to order this weeks immediately velshi banned book club. doing it on sunday, is what they were doing it today. on the, agenda all american war, a story about racism and police patel and how -- can bring about. change coauthors join me later on velshi. er on velshi. somebody's poking directly on the nerve. i recommend sensodyne. sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down. and my patents say: “you know doc, it really works." it only takes a second for an everyday item to become dangerous. tide pods child-guard pack helps keep your laundry pacs in a safe place and your child safer. to close, twist until it clicks. tide pods child-guard packaging. >> nothing has the power to

unite quite looked around today. human soul kicks in when we see our brothers and sisters. need that's what happens at the end of february next year. the world watched in horror as the forces of an autocrat invaded a sovereign nation. and most of the world united around ukraine. ukrainian flag became a

mainstay in the windows, homes businesses to fruits and was graffiti than walls around the u.s.. blue and yellow sprinkled throughout cities around the world. are they citizens raise money, they sent supplies and some volunteered their time to help the people of ukraine. families across europe, and even some here in america, opened their homes to refugees who have no idea if there would ever be able to return to. there's a new member country stepped up to provide aid, and much needed military assistance to ukraine's small but mighty army. just about one year ago, today the global average was palpable. how could one nation, flowing through the borders of another, it's not the freedom right out from other the ukrainian people? of course this happened before, that's what world war i is about. same as world war ii when russia invaded crimea in 2014, the world was aghast. but it happened. and russia stayed. and it set the stage for last year's invasion.

ukraine has lost, lives land, infrastructure and worst of all it's tenuous hold on democracy. the loss is insurmountable. and as ukraine heads into its second, year next month, its allies must not forget what it felt like almost your go. ukraine needs the global community to maintain its resolve. because wars are lost. i was always lost. when ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy impress congress last, month he, said quote, our two nations our allies in this battle and next year it will be a turning point. i know it. the point of ukrainian courage in american resolve must guarantee the future of our common freedom. the freedom of people who stand for their values. just one line in a remarkable speech. the united states just announced another massive impact for ukraine. the biden administration will now send just over three billion new dollars in security assistance to ukraine, bringing the u.s. commitment to ukraine's fight to buy 24.9 billion dollars.

which sounds like a lot. but what is the price of freedom, especially when fighting an expansionist adversary who just threaten the world beyond even ukraine? it is middle distance in a war that many expected ukraine to lose after this a few days. this conflict has longevity. in a zelenskyy and his people will need americas firm determination to reclaim their democracy. as i say that out loud, i realize it might be a lot to ask of a nation that doesn't quite have a grip on its own democracy. but while ukraine is fighting a belligerent power beyond its borders, america's democratic fight is of our own making. i'm not entirely convinced that we are fully committed democracy here in the united states, so why not invest all resolve right now in ukraine, where is needed and deeply appreciated? as well as the leading luxury bonding treatment. for softness and resilience, without the price tag. if you know... you know it's pantene.

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turning to max and nicole. >> very good. >> we are about a year into this, wore an unexpected war for too many folks. certainly in 2018, when i reported the presidents phone call, resulting in the first impeachment, i was concerned about the national security implications. that ukraine was vulnerable, and trump's actions would make him even more vulnerable heading into a particular time. unfortunately, it manifested this war. a year, and there are some surprises. how incredibly well the u.s. -- ukrainians have performed. but also the fact that the u.s. continues, and the western world continues to be resolved to support ukraine. there was a deep fear for many policy makers and civil society that there would be ukraine fatigue that sets in. that has not, happened because of the amazing performance of ukrainian people on the battlefield. the populations commitments to

freedom and the values that we hold so dear. and his lynskey. and so far we have seen only minor decreases and we saw that play out just recently with this appropriation for some $45 million in support for ukraine. i think the republicans are not going to be able to stray too far from that line. american people. >> there is some talk that this breakaway group that did not want to support mccarthy was calling for an overall 65 billion dollar deduction in defense spending. all we see some of which will make its way to our support for ukraine. that is kind of weird, right? a little upside down the republicans are looking to pull down the spending. particularly against a key adversary of the united states. >> that. it's true part of that is this sense of what gives them and punishing the military. major, major global crises. what the u.s. has provided to ukraine amounts to about 3% of the defense budget. it is a drop in the bucket, if you think about it.

for what the ukrainians have managed to do, the resources they are provided, it's basically just about neutering the second most powerful military in the world. it is no longer a significant threat to nato. that is for a relatively modest area. what we have going forward over the course of the next nine, months i would say, is a continued hot war. on the same scale that we've been seeing since the spring and summer. right now it is a small wall, as ukrainians continue to rebuild the resources to take back the territory. the cranes are gonna be effective at taking back more territory. at the same time, it looks like russia is maybe conducting mobilization. for potentially 500,000 troops. in the same window that -- is going to be coming. it additional ammunition. additional cannons. systems and allies are coming

through. >> help me with that. the patriots and -- the >> the individual systems themselves should not be overstated. they're gonna have an impact. the himars have allowed ukraine to start these targets and disrupt russia's logistics. it's normal operations. by itself, it is less meaningful than the wealth of equipment that is coming in in aggregate. more needs to come in. i think i mentioned before, we did on camera, the two prominent russian analysts, former secretary of state and former secretary of defense, wrote an op-ed in the washington post. >> let me just read the and, i'm glad you pointed this out to me. the president voted muslin skis p speech before congress last month reminded us of winston churchill's plea in february 1941. give us the tools and we will finish the job. we agree with the biden administration's determination

to avoid direct confrontation with russia. however, an emboldened putin might not give us that choice. the way to avoid confrontation with russia in the future is to help ukraine push back the invader,. now that is a lesson of history that should guide us. it lends urgency to the actions that must be taken before it is too late. >> absolutely. this is what we've been talking about, frankly. this may during our support. potentially the u.s. government pushing these three billion, dollars this equipment. proceeding to this next mobilization. it is not really sufficient. we need to give the ukrainians everything they. needs we need to get two more rockets. why are we going to wait until the next information in this war the next time that ukraine it's capability to conduct a successful offensive? how do we give him what they need now? and russia's theory of victory, helping ukraine defeat russia on the battlefield, it starts to stray and spill over. u.s. and nato interests.

that's what we avoid, that's how we secure united states. arming ukraine to win as quickly as possible. >> i ran into somebody across this party who said that the way this is going, you can be pretty soon levis troops on the ground. he's been pretty clear he has no interest in having u.s. troops on the ground. zelenskyy has, said we do not need your. troops we cannot you need your. pilots we did not need your sailors. when you the stuff. >> i hope we do not eat our words. i was talking to this administration in the days before this war. they said, you are going to provide the systems to ukraine. you will do it. you're gonna hate doing it but you will do it. >> you've said this to me many times on the show. >> i feel that there is a scenario where we might eat our words. we think if we missed play this we continue to be, reactive continue to feed this material just in time. we have the ukrainians what we need to, way we don't put u.s. troops on the ground. that kind of, exhalation that kind of spillover. we only do that through, ukraine and ukraine has the

victories on the battlefield. >>, colonel could to. see you again thank you for helping my viewers last year. understanding some who is going on here. it was always necessary. thank you, sir. lieutenant colonel -- former director of foreign affairs. senior adviser for -- he is the author of a very important book called, here, right. matters an american story. more important now than even when you. published a record number of migrants crossed into the united states last year. like this morning president biden is set to visit, paso texas, to talk to local officials to see what's happening at americas southern border firsthand. more on his trip next on velshi. ext on velshi s, and fermentation. fermentation? yes. formulated to help you body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness, well done. teeth sensitivity is so common. it immediately feels like somebody's poking directly on the nerve. i recommend sensodyne. sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth

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president biden is said to depart the way this improves he will then travel to el paso, texas, making his first visit to the southern border during his presidency. this comes just days after the biden administration announced a new plan to address the crisis at the border and the iraqi number of migrants crossing into the u.s. last year. biden says he plans to meet with border patrol officials, el paso residents in migrants during his trip. do you for news correspondent kristen -- is the latest what is happening in our southern border. >> under mounting pressure to address the migrant crisis, today biden will make his first trip to the border as president. >> folks sending me what they

need and don't have. >> his focus, el paso, which has been the epicenter of a number of border crossings out of reach record highs in november. nationwide border control crossing the southern border illegally. a record 2.6 million times last year. it increased border officials attributed to migrants fleeing violence. the expectation of covid arab and at the border could soon be lifted. republicans are blasting the president. >> it is about time that joe biden went down to see the chaos that he himself created. >> the president is expected to tout the major announcement he made last week. he says his administration will immediately begin turning away up to 30,000 migrants from cuba, haiti, nicaragua and venezuela. across the border illegally from mexico. and denying asylum to those who failed to apply for properly. but the u.s. will aim to express except the same amount from those four nations, who apply through the proper

channels. >> do you not just trump at the border. stay where you are and apply legally. >> adding to the, urgency nbc news has shown support for customers and border officers, as well as a city. police arresting migrants sleeping in the streets outside of your church shelter. critics question, and where they are moved to sanitize the crisis. but in a statement customs and border protection says that in response to migrants tension in the el paso area, the united states border patrol has increased the number of entrance controlling the area. meanwhile, across the country republican governors are ramping up their enforcement. this, weekend photos republican governor ron desantis activated the state's national guard. to address the arrival of hundreds of migrants in recent weeks. when the presidents, quote, lawless, immigration policies. >> our thanks to christian walker for that report. here is a startling statistic. nationwide, black people are

3.1 times more likely to be killed at the hands of police in white. people that is according to mapping police violence, a nonprofit research group that has been maintaining a database of police killings for nearly a decade. those unjust killings reached a record high last year. this trend is not, new as you. no and it is sadly and surprising. white privilege isn't inextricably linked to police brutality. and always has been in this country. for this week's meeting of the velshi banned book club, i had a remarkable conversation with two authors. a black man that a white man. who together wrote a book that grapples with a vastly different experiences of american boyhood, police brutality and white privilege. there, book called all american boys, maybe. fiction but the numbers don't lie. the stories all too real. we have a full conversation in the next, hour but it is so good that i wanted to show a little of it right now. we start the conversation with the bookends. with her two teenage protagonists, a black teen, and queen, a white teen, both march and a racial justice rally been

we meet. listen. >> there were a few things that i wanted to be really clear about when we decided to make this book. one of those things is that we wanted to push as far away as possible the idea of the white savior. we didn't want to quit and rashad to meet and then suddenly there is this kumbaya moment. there is this moment we're all as well with the world and they shake hands and walk off into the sunset. because that is not actual reality and we do not respect young people too much to tie something up in that way. the other thing that is even more, important though, is a want to drive home the point that you do not need to actually know a person to care about their well-being. it should not matter that you don't leave -- it missouri to really care about what happened to mike brown. it shouldn't matter that may never actually touch you or your doorstep, for you to be concerned about the welfare of your brothers and sisters of color in this world.

we wanted to illustrate that subtly and nuanced. >> it really was a great conversation. i was a whole thing coming up next hour. i've said it, before this is one of the best velshi banned book club meetings so far. you don't want to miss. this first, biden of the handful of americans who fought to uphold democracy in the aftermath of the 2020 election. michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson, great friend of our show was among. them talking to us about the continuing fight for democracy in just a few moments. >> even twice elected michigan trustee, with 7% of the vote. and how that vote counted. that's what she did in 2020. when she oversaw a record number of -- turnout to vote in the election. only to find a armed mob out of her home, on christmas eve. she and her son or decorating the christmas tree inside. but she refused to back down,

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undaunted in unflinching michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson, who continues her exemplary public service to advance three free and fair elections in our nation. >> that was the newly reluctant michigan secretary jocelyn benson receiving the presidential citizens medal, one of the country's highest civilian honor, for her role in defending the 2020 election against those who were trying to overturn the results. that is secretary of state, benson administer the 2020 presidential election. and certified the results,

despite threats to democracy and -- her inner family face threats in arms protest outside their homes, when she did succumb to pressure from those who want to overthrow the election. benson ran for her second term as secretary of state last november. she finished off with christina -- evoke a election denier who spread a myriad of baseless conspiracy theories about elections, and other points. she became more popular figure among the far-right in 2020 when she claimed to have witnessed voter fraud in detroit. with zero evidence of that. she also previously bumped rhetoric about january 6th insurrection. her fierce defense of democracy is made her presence well known in her home state of michigan, as well as across the country and on this. show while the fate of the election security in michigan is around the country, and democratic values hung in the ballots ahead of the midterm elections, benson was always a voice of reason against bad actors looking to manipulate the american election system. she has told us on the show, many times, that voters need to

have faith in our election systems. and thanks to public servants like, or we can. benson won her race in november by a margin of 14%. showing threats and personal attacks and election deniers that she is a force to be reckoned with. and while warriors for democracy prevailed in this past election cycle, defeating election deniers and every single statewide race in every battleground state, it was still threats to democracy that persist. on the other side of the break we will dig into, that with the aforementioned michigan secretary jocelyn benson. stick around. stick around announcer: derek jeter ...or plan? maybe... it's because in dreams, you can do anything. in dreams... you can hold your entire world in the palm of your hand. and turn time inside out... again and again. and you can do it all with your eyes wide open.

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just look around. the subway series. this digital age we're living in, it's pretty unbelievable. problem is, not everyone's fully living in it. nobody should have to take a class or fill out a medical form on public wifi with a screen the size of your hand. home internet shouldn't be a luxury. everyone should have it and now a lot more people can. so let's go. the digital age is waiting. well, we fell in love through gaming. but now the internet lags and it throws the whole thing off. when did you first discover this lag? i signed us up for t-mobile home internet. ugh! but, we found other interests. i guess we have. [both] finch! let's go! oh yeah! it's not the same. what could you do to solve the problem? we could get xfinity? that's actually super adult of you to suggest. i can't wait to squad up. i love it when you talk nerdy to me.

guy, guys, guys, we're still in session. >> fresh off of receiving one and i don't know what the heck you're talking about. of the highest civilian honor in the, nation in the presidential citizens medal, michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson joins me now. secretary benson, congratulations first of all. thank you. i think you and i have talked about this before, but i think i ever interviewed a secretary of state before you. and you may have been one of our most regular guests over the last couple of years. because of what you do is so important. when we have a guest, on i have a page of notes that my producer helps me produce, where they get the necessary details. and what we like to put at the top is the focus of the conversation. the focus here is that the warriors over democracy prevailed in the midterms. but the threats to democracy persist. and that is really the thesis that i wanted to talk to you

about. you. one everybody in your state. one who was not an election denier. and i was on the latest in the same, thing in pennsylvania they do the same thing. and, yet we do not have less to worry about than we did before the midterm elections. >> indeed. i mean, just look at congress and what unfolded there this last week, where you saw a very small number of people bringing an entire body to a standstill. and those were many people who tried to block the will of the people in 2020, from coming to. formation that underscores that this work is not yet over. and as we currying towards the presidential election in 2024, we also have work to do to ensure that every voice is heard, every vote is counted in that we all work together to protect the will of the people. regardless of what it might be. >> one of the interesting approaches that you and your fellow secretaries of state, who are in charge of elections, is not the same thing across america, but many states the secretary of state administers the elections. one of the things you do to

fight this is not argue with people about the integrity of the election, it is ensure that elections have the integrity. one of the first conversations you when i had after the 2020 election is that you got a lot of the election. nor do it automatically. >> in, the. yes auditing is part of the professional elections process. and it ensures that all of our procedures are by the book. and affirmed those procedures and the results of the election. we conducted, in michigan, over 250 statewide -- in a 2020 election. and each, one for the results of, election michigan was not the only state that that. that others did as. well transparency really is the best candidate for a lot of this disinformation is out there right now. at the same time, that did not stop a lot of the lies that were being pushed. and continue to be pushed by people trying to gain celebrity or otherwise power, to overturn a block the will of the. people it is important to continue doing those, that is an important part of the process to continue to give

citizens the facts, the truth, about the sanctity integrity of our elections. and then, also for all of us a democracy will stay with that, data without proof and evidence that our elections are the. book that our elections are accurate so we can all go forward together and fight the deceivers. >> are you heartened by the fact that in the wake of the midterm elections, a number of prominent republicans and members of the republican party infrastructure have, realized i don't know whether this is authentic or genuine, but they have realized that talking mostly about election denial in 2020 and voter fraud, actually hurt republicans. it made republicans also doubt the veracity of the election process, some of them stayed home or didn't take advantage of conveniences like advanced voting running by mail. or public, and so in many states initiated things like voting by mail and absentee voting. i've realized this has come out

to bite us. >> truly. it is a losing strategy to deny the results of an election. it is a losing strategy for candidates to buy those that they're trying to gain for us. and push these conspiracy theories or false hoods about our election. the, irony also, is it dampens turn around those who have lost faith in the system. that is attracting across the board. we want everyone to, vote we want everyone to have faith in the process and to cast their vote. we want every citizen to know they are options to vote in their state and to cast their vote with confidence. with my colleagues are gonna continue to do that work to restore and ensure people can have faith in the process. but, yes it is an irony that has manifested itself as a losing political strategy, to lie about our elections. and my hope, and indeed one of the ways we come out of this, is by people on both sides of the, aisle and republicans in particular, being committed to just telling the truth to the

citizens about the integrity of their vote, the elections themselves. so that we can all work to increase turnout and increase the security of our elections and the security of our election workers together. >> telling the truth calmly and slowly and quietly if something will be doing for a couple of years. you are not a hair on fire type of person about this. i guess my concern here is that after thinking that the 2020 election was lost by donald, trump and that he had disappeared, he did not disappear. and those forces of elections and oil cannot disappear. , then after seeing the relative success in the midterm elections, particularly in states like yours and arizona in pennsylvania, where election deniers were in the forefront, people worry less. they think this is not a problem, but is. how does somebody like you who is not an overall person about this, how do you keep this in the forefront? how you make people understand that this fight for democracy is not close to over? >> well, first with the help of fact finding journals like

yourself and others. who, have four years, now connected the dots of this multi faceted effort to through lies and deception, undermine democracy in our country. and the ways in which a lot of those folks who have led those conspiracy theories and lies over the last few years have not gone away. and many of them still have power or are seeking power. so, that in itself, shows this work is not yet over. but also, truly, we have to recognize a living in a democracy always requires us to do whatever we can to stand for the truth, and for our prostitution. and for these basic principles and promises in that document. that we the people choose our elected officials, and hold them accountable. i am part of the state's chief election officer in michigan to stand to make those principles real for everyone. but i cannot do it alone. in, fact they wore their received this week really underscores that we receive these rewards on behalf of the -- four democracy in our. country and truth tellers a moment like this. my hope in these next few years

is that we recognize and continue to speak the truth about that threat. and they would grow our national non partisan coalition, in support of democracy. and work to ensure that it is not only a losing political strategy, it is not only a losing legal strategy, to fight and to spread lies about a democracy. but it is not who we are. and it is not i would be seeking a leadership position in this country should be profiting. >> it was amazing to watch not just you get this award, but regular election workers get. line for smith officers, who held the protesters at bay on january six. it was one amazing to watch that. congratulations on receiving the citizens medal. for the work that you have done any help that you have given us a better nursing of all. this democratic secretary of state joscelyn vincent. appreciate it. still to come, latest on the gop's constant congressional chaos. what a