is that we recognize and continue to speak the truth about that threat. and they would grow our national non partisan coalition, in support of democracy. and work to ensure that it is not only a losing political strategy, it is not only a losing legal strategy, to fight and to spread lies about a democracy. but it is not who we are. and it is not i would be seeking a leadership position in this country should be profiting. >> it was amazing to watch not just you get this award, but regular election workers get. line for smith officers, who held the protesters at bay on january six. it was one amazing to watch that. congratulations on receiving the citizens medal. for the work that you have done any help that you have given us a better nursing of all. this democratic secretary of state joscelyn vincent. appreciate it. still to come, latest on the gop's constant congressional chaos. what is ahead and why this is

not simply a democracy at. we're but something that could actually destroy american democracy, another hour of velshi begins right now. hi begins right now. good morning, it is sunday january the 8th. i am ellen -- kevin mccarthy's new election as the speaker of the house, it was a historic one if not exactly for the best reasons. the first time for a speakership was divot sided on a multiple, ballots are where occurrence in the scope of all american history. mccarthy's bid this year was only the 15th time that has happened, it was 15 ballots but it was only the 15th time that it is happened. there were only four other instances when the volker shut -- went on for longer, all of which were in the 1800s, which was an era in which political parties were influx and factions were ideologically split over the issue of slavery. take the 16th congress as an example. henry clay was initially elected as the speaker at the start of the term and 1819 but,

he opted to step down in the middle of his term shortly after congress negotiated the missouri compromise which resulted in the admissions of missouri as a slave state and maine as a non slave state. in the course of the debates for the missouri compromise, john w taylor, an abolitionist and a congressman chriesman from new york emerged as a leading voice against slavery. he gave passionate speeches, he wrote essays against admitting that missouri is a slave state, he even offered up the amendment to the missouri compromise that would have outlawed slavery anywhere west of the mississippi. taylor was on the loser end of that issue, his amendment was not adopted, but his peers recognized that he was a skilled politician. and when henry clay stepped down as speaker in 1820, taylor became the anti slavery groups favorite candidate to replace him. but it took 22 ballots before taylor was elected as speaker, as political factions realigned and coalesced around him. but he faced greater odds a year later when he ran to be reelected speaker of the 17th

congress. after 12 ballots, he was ousted from the position and replaced by philipp barber, a slave owner from virginia. and then in the years leading up to the civil war, the fight over slavery would become even more of a central issue in the contest for speaker. the three other times when the contest for speaker took longer were 1855, 1849, and 1859. those were the years when the rancor over the issue of slavery was reaching its peak, and as a consequence, bitterly divided congress even those who were even in the same party. obviously this is a very different situation from what we witnessed in the house last week as far as anyone could tell, matt gates and his troop of mccarthy hard-liners didn't appear to be ideologically opposed to mccarthy's agenda or that of the rest of the party, but they used the opportunity to broker some sort of deal that you are not entirely sure of yet, for more power and influence for a chance to drag the republican party further to the right. and that is a consequence of the republican party inability

to deal with the drawing extremism in its ranks. it is fracturing their party and we are witnessing it in realtime. joining me now is joanne freeman, she is a professor of history in american studies at yale university, she is the president of the society for historic indians of the early american republic, she is the co-host of the public now and then and the author of the book field of blood, violence in congress in the war to the civil road. professor freeman, it is good to see you, i have to tell you it was probably one in the morning on saturday, stephanie ruhle and i were sitting on tv. and suddenly in the corner of the screen, we saw someone lunge at matt gates and someone grabbed, ended up being mike rogers a congressman from alabama, and someone grabbed him and pull him back. and then the camera panned over, i wonder if we can put this on tv, but the camera pans over to mccarthy who was walking back to his seat, heard something turned around and walked back. and we definitely thought we were going to come back and see a brawl on the floor of congress, and the first thing i thought about was i need to

talk to joe and freeman. >> you weren't the only one. >> it didn't come to blows, thankfully, but that is after 15 ballots, 14 ballots, that is what it looked like. we are going to watch this by the way right now. he leans in, and something happens and somebody pulls him back, what do you think about where we are in our political discourse at the moment? >> just as you started out by saying, one of the things that causes these drawn out speakership battles is indeed fractured political parties. so it when you do look back at all of the other times when it happened, before 1923, there is that little stand out, there are all before the civil war. parties were much more influx at that point, and that means we can have moments like this when you can't muster enough people to get what you need to

elect a speaker. some of these times, one of the ways to solve that was to focus on a specific issue, so for example in 1856, they actually asked each, the top three leading candidates, for the speakership, two in the house publicly state what their views were on congressional legislation about slavery. and they were going to pick a speaker based on what they said and in that moment in sort of this pseudo-congressional inquisition. so in that case, unlike this case, there was something very specific they were negotiating that they were talking about that they were trying to figure out a way around. what's interesting about the situation is that yes, it is fractured, but in addition it is more about a party within the party then about something specific. >> so this is interesting, because in his speech after he became the speaker which was about 1:30 in the morning, mccarthy threw out what i would

think is some red meat to the far right of the party, including conspiracy theorists. he said he is going to have an inquisition or an investigation in the origins of covid. there is nothing wrong with that, but generally speaking that is a scientific inquiry not a congressional inquiry, and some commentators said to me after that that he did not feel comfortable with that. but he was leaning into the fact that the people who stopped him from becoming speaker for 14 ballots fall into this category. marjorie taylor greene, the kind of conspiracy theories and far-right people, a speaker, sort of being the leader and saying that is not who i am, he said i'm going to come up to you as long as i can become speaker. >> like everyone else, i am watching closely. >> because of course, the next thing to have to happen are the creation of rules. they have to agree on rules, and then a speaker he will be putting people in committees and offering the chair of different committees to different people. that will be another way to

measure some of what you are talking about here, which is where is he taking a stand and how often is he offering rhetoric in a direction. we can have suspicions, but we don't know that yet. but that is what to watch for. that's what we saw was indeed a battle and what we are looking for now is to understand who won that battle, how, and what are we going to imply from it. >> intriguing, because the selection of the speaker on the 15th vote isn't actually a sign of who on the ballot, it becomes very unclear, so we will have to watch to see how this happens. good to see you again, thank, you as always, joe and freeman is a professor of history of american studies at yale university. author of a field of blood, violence in congress and the road to the civil war which is always a great read, but it became suddenly relevant on saturday morning. still ahead this hour, president biden is going to make his way to the u.s. border, the u.s. mexico border, after

announcing a controversial immigration policy. we are going to take you there for a live report, we are going to dig into the policy by the way as well, and we have a meeting of the velshi banned book club. including a author of all american boys, the novel is written from two distinct points of view that explores how one violent racist attack can create a seismic change for better and for worse. i got to speak for both authors, i know i said this before, but this is one of the best conversations we have had. don't miss it. d. don't miss it. don't miss it. for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium.

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to visit el paso texas, this you are looking at. one of the helicopters that will take him from delaware to joint base andrews outside of washington, from which he will get on air force one and fly to el paso. the trip is his first to the southern border as president, the visit to the border city which is under a state of emergency because of the number of migrants that have crossed over from mexico, comes on the

heels of biden and noun spent this week enacting major changes to immigration policy. the controversial new measures are going to expand the use of a pandemic era measure notice title 42. this new policy is going to accept 30,000 immigrants a month from haiti, cuba, nicaragua and venezuela. it also includes a deterrent, anyone who comes from these countries who fails to use a legal pathway to the united states will be quickly quickly expelled. we are going to dive deeper into this policy later in the show, but later on in his speech biden is expected to talk about enforcement at the border. border agents at el paso city are l arresting migrants who are sleeping in the streets outside a catholic church center at a bus station over the past week, a volunteer at the shelter who shot the video at the shelter said approximately 100 250 migrants have been arrested. for more on this, i am being joined by gabe who's on the ground in el paso texas, you

are currently in front of a church where that sweet happened. what is the situation today. >> hi, good morning, this is the epicenter of the humanitarian crisis cis at the border right now. this is the church you were talking about, and yes, migrants were arrested last week, but as you can see right here, they are actually sleeping more of them are sleeping outside the church. they spend the night here in very cold conditions, temperatures were in the 30s, you can see them just starting to get up right now, and several dozen migrants are here and i should point out, though we are here in el paso several weeks ago and there was a significant influx about mid december. the biden administration officials say that the white house points out that since then, border crossings have dropped about 70% here el paso. the biden administration attribute that to some of the enforcement that it is undertaking, and customs and border patrols issued a

statement to say that at least some of those migrants had not properly identified themselves or applied for asylum and we're availing capture essential. so this was a part of the increase of force of the part of the administration, today however, president biden set to arrive in el paso, and he will have a tour of entry in terms of a migrant process set up. but does this mean that republicans have been calling for since he took office and, now republicans have criticized about the administration for what they seek as last immigration policies that show a record number of border crossings over the past year. however, the biden administration points out that congress is actually gotten in the way of increasing funding for the border, and so that battle over immigration, one that has taken administrations from both political parties for decades, that is not playing

out here and again, president biden is set to arrive here in el paso later on today to witness this humanitarian crisis firsthand. >> gabe, let me ask you a question. el paso and horror as, the mexico city right across the border, some people describe it as one city across an international border the way you might think of st. paul in minneapolis. there are concerns that if they tightened things up too much, commerce between -- interchange which is often daily with the citizens of both of those places, could slow down, as what the biden ministration planning to do not going to affect that? because i know people in el paso and horrors like the fact that there is eve me movement of people and goods and kong mers between those two places. >> as i answer that question, you know i will walk around here so you can see what you can see, but that is part of what president biden, he is meeting with north american leaders on monday and mexico's president at that north american summit in mexico city.

certainly there is concern, about the relationship between the u.s. and the mexico. now i can tell you i was in side just a few weeks ago and they had been continuing with this massive influx, especially now that it increased number of nicaraguans, cubans, and haitians have been going through that area, but mexico is apparently agreed to accept 30,000 of those migrants from those countries that are now going to be expelled into mexico, it remains to be seen the future of this relationship now, but yes, mexico has made concessions and will now agree to accept several of these migrants that may not have those who apply from the proper channels. ply from the prope channels >> border officials in el paso, they do recognize that relationship between the two cities, but again, there needs to be -- when the biden ministration can somehow convince these migrants to stop coming to apply through the public channels, at least

to produce that huge influx over the last year or so. >> it is an important piece of contacts that's why we are so glad you are there covering it, good to see you my friend, gabe gutierrez, live from us from el paso, texas. coming up, we are staying at the border, we are taking a deeper look at biden's new controversial immigration measures. l immigratio measures measures there's always a fresh deal on the subway app. like this one! 50% off?! that deal's so good we don't even need an eight-time all-star to tell you about it. wait what? get it before it's gone on the subway app!

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you quit smoking. now do the easy part and get scanned for lung cancer. if you smoked, you may still be at risk, but early detection could save your life. talk to your doctor and learn more at savedbythescan.org >> today, president biden is on his way to the u.s. border with mexico just days after announcing the expansion of the controversial trump era title 42 immigration policy. now, the expanded policy is biden's boldest move yet to curtail illegal border crossings that have risen sharply since he took office, and increase that house republicans have seized on as part of an attempt to reframe the debate between immigration policy in america in which we need more immigrants than we ever taken, into a much narrower conversation around border security, which not is an important, but it is near

reported it is. -- with house republicans looking to launch an investigation into donald trump's -- biden said on thursday said he had no choice but to take unilateral action and urged lawmakers to come up with a comprehensive solution to the border problem. >> i will sit down with anyone who in good faith wants to fix our broken immigration system. and it is hard, it, is hard on the best of circumstances, and if the most extremely public's continues to demagogue this issue and left solutions i am left with only one choice, to act on my own into as much as i can on my own to try to change the atmosphere. immigration reform used to be a bipartisan issue. >> there's a lot we want to talk about that, change the atmosphere and integration used to be a bipartisan issue, which is true. biden's revamped immigration policy does have some stuff that is interesting, it expands opportunities for cubans, haitians, nicaraguans, and valenzuela's to come in, while at the same time it cracks down on people who have come in not

through what they call it the legal channels. migrants from those four countries currently make a majority of illegal border crossings in november alone they were stopped at the border more than 82, 000, 280 times according to the associated press. the u.s. will now accept 30,000 people from the affected regions per month allowing them to stay in the united states for two years as long as they arrive and they come in through legal channels, have eligible sponsors and pass background checks. which might be a tall order for folks who are fleeing immediate persecution and harm, according to immigration advocates, but if margaret are caught crossing illegally, they will be immediately expelled. the new policy will replace the anticipated lifting of trunks title 42 policy, that is the covid era public health law that critics say it was a pretext for sealing off the border. biden's version of the plan is being rolled out even as the administration has argue that the trump era policy is no longer justified on public health grounds, and should end. in fact, immigration --

argue that biden's new plan is not all that different from chart trump's harsh immigration, efforts among those critics democratic representative joaquin castro released a statement on friday expressing his dismay. quote, instead of making concessions to the same reactionaries who have spent decades posing immigration reform, the biden administration should work with congress to develop smart with immigration policy that meets our nations economic needs uphold our fundamental values and addresses the roots of causes >> of migration. >> i use limitation in that because i kind of agree with him. joining me now to aggress the -- staff writer at the atlantic covering the border, covering this and knows more about it than almost anyone i know. plus it is really a complicated issue. and part of it is that we have a tainted the immigration with border crossings and criminality, when in fact as congressman castro says, it is actually an economic embarrass

>> and what congressman castro is calling for is perfect sense is zooming out, reconsidering what our our values as a cold on immigration as a country, and what are our need. let's infuse this debate and he did an emotional bait with some data, with some hard information, about what is actually going to help the country, help the economy, and help our society and our cultural values. the problem is that this cannot be solved in a four-year term. in so what you have is presidents democrat in republican over and over again trying to lay down band-aids which are not going to meaningfully address those through causes that congressman castro is referring to. so i think the latest announcement that for the biden ministration is an interesting attempt to thread the needle, it is easy to thread it right away and certainly those hard lines republicans are going to say that they are just trying to get more people in, but we have to actually slow down and have a smart conversation if we are going to make any progress

and i think this is the biden administration attempt to do that within the administrative channels, that they have available to them, again the complete absence of congress coming to the table on this issue. >> and what you are watching right now by the way is president biden getting out of his vehicle at delaware, ready to board the helicopter which will be designated to the island as soon as he gets to it. as soon as you will see it you see there is a number of helicopters the flight together, you never know which one he's going to get on to once he gets on to it he will be great once you can fly to join the case campers from which he will fly to el paso to try to address this. but part of the problem is that he said, i will sit down with anyone who wants to have a meaningful conversation about this. >> everyone in conversation wants to have a conversation about -- migration, but the meaningful comprehensive migration solution is so elusive, but we are a country with a three

point size 5% immigration rates. we have farms that don't have workers that even republicans want filled with some of these workers. why can't we, we are talking about settling people on mars why can't we find a solution to this. >> this is a gary very very cynical debate. let me just try to break down with the dynamics are. so on the. hard right republican side it is a winning talking point to say that the democrats and say that president biden is soft on the border. so you're going to hear that made whether we see 100,000 people across that border are not or 1 million. it just works, it is just like calling a democrat president, we call crime. and so democrats then in response have just sort of played chess here and said okay, well we always are gonna say on we can we are crime as congressman -- are going to push me forward anyway? are we just going to quell those concerns? but as you and i were just talking about before that segment started, it is a fools errand for a democratic

president to try to crack down as a way to breed good faith and get to those hard right republican lawmakers to the table all you have to note to know that is true is no the obama iman in shun who went through the nickname deporter in chief not only can look at republican lawmakers to get on the table for a broad overhaul of our immigration system he couldn't get a bill passed to support dreamers, which are one of the most politically popular groups in the country. on the democratic side, it is a risk. it is a risk to even talk about and suggest opening up pathways to immigration because of those talking points on the right. and when you have to see there is liberals who are willing to kind of take a bullet and pushed forward anyway, and it is so interesting. i heard that language from members of the trump administration all the time who would say look, we know these policies aren't popular with some people, but people believe in them so strongly we are doing anyway. you don't hear that kind of

language from the left, and so i think that's why we are stuck on both sides. >> while the stuck is causing us a major economic problems in this country. because we actually need ways to figure out more to get immigration into here and what the supra police adjusting is reminiscent of the dreamers a little bit, come, and have a sponsor, keep a job or do something else and you can stay for a while. and that is the kind of people you would choose if you are trying to get people to get to your country, and yet even that does not prevail. and the devil is going to be in the details, with this new policy. so is this app that people are supposed to years to apply to enter the country actually going to work, are we ever actually going to get close to the 30,000 number which is a limit, but it is an upper limit. and it is going to be hard to implement. are people who are traversing the darién gap right now and not watching tv are not going to know anything about this app, because now if you cross the border if you are from one of those four countries, that is

part of this program. if you cross the border without knowing about this change, you are barred from seeking asylum. and it is worth pausing on that notion. as we have said we are at a point where the president feels like limiting the number of of much as possible as what is politically necessary. but this represents yet another turning point from -- the spirit of immigration laws that exist including these post-world war ii protection sisters that says if you set foot on american soil, you get a shot. walking away on that is a big deal. >> and as you and i have discussed to these are actually agreements that we have, there are laws that we have we have simply criminalized to the idea of this. and as you can see there is marine one moving along now, we are about to see him besides doing grace, and then president biden who will take off from joint base and meet up in el paso texas where he will meet not only el paso daughters but also north american leaders including leaders from mexico to try and, as caitlin says,

zoom out a little bit and see this picture a little more holistically. caitlin, good to see you, thank you as always for being with us, caitlin dickerson is a staff writer at the atlantic. and as i was describing to you, what you always see when the president boards a helicopter is that they won't take him anywhere that you see the see a three helicopters. typically three because not to say too much, we don't ever know which one the president is in right, you notice you rarely ever see him getting on and you often see him getting off. but you never see him getting on, you rarely see him getting on, they always boards from the other side of it helicopter, typically cameras on the other side so that as a security measure. we will know only when those helicopters get in the air and one of them continues on its course the other to feel a way. he is on his way to joint base, andrews, and then on his way to el paso texas. el paso is on the american side of the border with sweden

walrus, this is an example of two countries on either side of the border who they're actually people who live in el paso whose children live or go to school in el paso. their families live on either side of that border. these are integrated cities, families and businesses on both sides, people who do business on both sides, so really the tightening of borders in places like these border towns is remarkable imperative for them because they don't want to stop the kind of congress that goes on between those countries in the interchange of people. so this becomes a very historic issue, this becomes the first time that joe biden is visiting the southern border as president. we will continue to follow the story as it follows, you are watching msnbc. (woman 1) so i just switched to verizon business unlimited. it is just right for my little business. (woman 2) we switched, too. (woman 1) unlimited premium data, unlimited hotspot data. my point of sale is on point. (woman 2) you know it's from the most reliable 5g network in america?

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more velshi ahead, but don't turn the channels, because right after velshi today we have another show. i was like to watch that show, but i am very eagerly anticipating at this weekend because i am dying for my friend jonathan's take on everything that has happened this week in congress, however, while we were all watching that speaker vote, it was also the second anniversary of january 6th. something that got away from a whole lot of people because we were all watching that 15th ballot, that 14th and 15th

ballot. jonathan has got a great lineup as always, including the capitol police officer and newly minted recipient of the presidential citizens medal, harry dunn. he was there on january 6th he knows what accountability actually looks like. stay tuned for that. but for today's meeting of the velshi banned book club is almost underway, featuring the award-winning book all american boys by jason reynolds and brendan kiley, i had the opportunity to speak to both of them about writing in alternative points of view. then assessing for the next generation to read, and read about painful topics like a police brutality. this book maybe britain with young adults in mind but it will resonate for any reader and for all americans. don't miss it.

>> there is a party at jill's house on friday night including

rashad, a 16 year old black teen who loves drawing cartoons of his family and hanging out with his three best friends, and quinn, a white chalk of the same, matron out takes care of his younger brother since his dad died in afghanistan. were shot and quindell know each other, but they both find each other together at the local convenience store before the party starts. that's when queen witnesses rashad getting brutally and unjustly beaten by a police officer. their paths don't cross, but they become entirely intertwined. that is the plot of today's feature for the velshi banned book club, new york times best seller, all american boys. it is fiction written for a young adult audience, because it could very well be true, because black and brown american subjected to american police brutality them is a story that we have heard again and again. but the true power of all american boys comes from its two narrators and its two unique points of view. the introductory chapters highlight to the reader just how normal the two of these boys are, parties,

relationships, sports and the push and pull of parents. then with the flying fists of a police officer, the tenor changes completely. rashad's character in perspective shifts to be much more a medium. quote, he shoved me to the door and slams me to the ground. face first. hurt so bad the pain was a color, white, a crunching noise in my ear as bones in my nose cracked. my brain exploded into 1 million thoughts and only one thought at the same time, please don't kill me. quinn is a bystander, and it is written with that in mind. he witness is the attack from barely 20 feet away and remains that far throughout the book, ultimately quinn is a sympathetic character with high stakes. just not one compared to his counterpart, rashad, and that is precisely the point. all american voices drives home the fact that the problems white and black people face regarding racism are vastly different. of course, all american voices been targeted for banned, many times since his publication in

2015. even hitting the american library association's top ten list in 2020, the book sparked a debate in rhode island. one parent requested all american boys be removed from the ninth grade english curriculum, citing its profanity, drug references, and the vilification of police. adding, quote, let's not teach our children to vilify the people we trust and paid to keep us safe. the dark irony in condemning a book that grapples with white privilege by invoking white privilege. all american boys has received rave reviews and numerous awards, including the loretta star king award and the skull king award, many people describe the book using this word, timely. it doesn't feel sufficient to merely time up all american boys that way. it is part of a new cannon of young adult literature that is pushing the conversation surrounding race, spurring deeper self reflection and, with enough of those two things, perhaps also something else. real change. i had the privilege to talk to jason reynolds and brandon

kylie, authors of the new york times bestseller all american boys, it is one of my favorite velshi banned book club meetings from today. you are going to hear that just after this break, don't go anywhere. jus after this break, don't go anywhere anywhere ♪♪ so they can enjoy more visits. ♪♪ have more meet and greets. and have less to worry about. with the new law, 4 out of 5 customers can find a plan for $10 a month or less with financial help. feel like a million and find your plan during open enrollment. healthcare.gov is here for millions. like you. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv

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for softness and resilience, without the price tag. if you know... you know it's pantene. (classical piano music) fo- [reporter] one of thece, deadliest mass shootings in us history at pulse nightclub in orlando. - [barbara] walking into the building for the first time after the shooting, it was crippling, but it had to be preserved. if you are an ally of this community, speak out. there are more of us together than apart. it is the power of love in its rawest form. (classical piano music) >> i'm thrilled to be joined by

brendan -- authors of the award winning best seller, all american boys, good to see you gentlemen. thank you for being with us. let's start with how this book came to be, i read an account from npr the u2 ended up

chairing a hotel room as pretty much strangers, the very same day george zimmerman was acquitted of the murder of trayvon martin. tell me a little bit about how some of that may have led to the book. >> well, we were on a tour together. we were promoting our first novel and we just so happen to be in 2014. entering 2014, as you know there were lots of things happening, besides the acquittal this was the year that michael brown was killed, and all sorts of acts of police violence were taking place in our country. this is sort of when the black lives matter movement was starting to stir up, and things of that nature. ferguson was happening, all the different things were happening, freddy gray, and i am on tour with brandon who is a white man, obviously. and furthermore a white man that i do not know. i am concerned, my family is concerned, and over drinks at the bar one night as we are trying to decompress from tour, we finally have this conversation. and you will know better than

most, politics and religion are off the table when you are just getting to know someone, but this was the elephant in the room. and so as we finally started to lean into the conversation, it was a watershed moment for both of us because we finally got to air out our feelings. and it was in that moment that this permit person i had been a little bit reticent about hadn't in canny ability to listen, and that was sort of the impetus in the beginning of what would become the books. >> which is remarkable bowl because that different perspective around that story is the magic in the book, brandon, how did that same experience work out for you that night? >> you know, i really appreciated your introduction to the book ali because i think it is important for books to have the value of a dialogue in a novel. and i wanted to just reiterate what jason was saying. one of the realities of how or getting to know each other was jason, i hope you don't mind me sharing this, but the fact that

your mother was concerned. as you are traveling around the country. and as you had shared with me and i learned from her later, she was concerned that there might be a george zimmerman out there for you as you are traveling around the country as a young black man. and she called you with that fear. and to put things as clearly as possible about the difference or -- as martin luther king day your set across point high school, the two americas living side by side, my mother didn't call me. my mother wouldn't have cause to cause that have same concern, so for me in that conversation, it is desperately important that i spent my time as a white man listening to black families telling me about the reality that they experience every day. >> so we are going to talk a lot about the book, but i want to jump to the end of the book, jason, queen, rotten, their stories are so intertwined and yet there is that sort of 20 feet away thing.

but they never actually meet each other. the last few pages of the book, we switch perspectives between the two boys and they are at a racial justice rally. they are close but not together. i want to understand from you, jason, what were you trying to convey with that ending? >> first of all, ali, this is the first ever book club where you spoil the book. i have never experienced a book club where that happens -- >> i just want to know how you got, there don't tell me what happens next at all. [laughter] >> there were a few things that we wanted to be very clear on when we made this book, and one of those things was we wanted to push as far away as possible the idea of the white savior. we didn't want queen anne rashad to meet and then suddenly there is this kumbaya moment, there was this moment when all this love in the world and now we can shake hands in patterson's on the back and be ebony and ivory and walk off into the sunset. because that is not actual reality and we can respect

young people too much to tie something up in that way. the other thing that is even more important though is that we wanted to drive home the point that you don't need to actually know a person to care about their well-being. that it shouldn't matter that you don't live in ferguson missouri for you to care about what happened to michael brown. it shouldn't matter that may never actually touch your doorstep for you to be concerned about the welfare of your brothers and sister of color. it is that simple. and so we wanted to illustrate that subtly and nuanced in that scene. >> let's talk, brandon, about the tidal. the double on tonga. the imagery of american, a picket fences, baseball, queen or describes himself that way repeatedly. the title does not have a hyphen. it is referring to all american boys, not all hyphen american boys. including rashad. tell me about the thinking that went into that, if much did. >> absolutely, we bring it up

in the book a number of times, and there are lots of conversations about all american and what that means, and i think a lot about when i was a kid i wanted to be a child actor and model. a child actor and model. >> it didn't work out, but i will never forget the casting director who said oh yes, brandon, we would like to handle you because you, brandon, look like the all american boy. and the implicit racism in that that there is one single image that there is that definite article defines this is part of what we are playing within the title of the book, that is absurd and racist to reduce things to that way. i remember a conversation that jason and i were having about the title at one point and jason saying, that term all american kind of felt like a slur. because it felt exclusive the way that it was so often used in pop culture. and so we wanted to play with

this, take away the hyphen, and talk about all. i am a father. i have a three and a half year old son and i want him to embrace images of leadership and heroism that don't just look like him, but include all american boys and girls and folks who identify across the gender spectrum. >> all american boys opens with two quotes, jason, history can only teach it's less than if it is remembered. from carmelo soto, and if i am not for myself who will be for me but if i'm only for myself what am i from hello the elder. having these two parallel quotes sets the scene for the formatting of the book, different perspectives, but why these specific quotes? >> i think, at the end of the day, these are sort of the cornerstones of this novel. there are a few others in the book that are just as comparable. there are some imageries and

some scenes we're talking about -- we aren't thinking about erin douglas, right? and the idea that especially that hollow quote, this idea that yes, it is true that i have to be for me, but if i'm only for me, then we are all doomed. we know this already. the human experience is what is connected. human experience is what is communal, even if we try our hardest to fight against that communal aspect and that community, the truth of the matter is the only way that we continue to exist as people, let alone as people with healthy lives and healthy communication and fairness and freedoms and liberty. there has to be the acknowledgment of the people around you who might be different, but to actually aren't much different. it all wiggles down to it. our details are different, but our general -- the general consensus of what we want for our lives are all the same for the most part. around the world, not just in this country. >> that is not just even an

american thing that is a global thing. jason reynolds and brendan kiley, authors of the new york times bestseller all american boys. if you enjoyed that conversation as much as i did there is a lot more where that came from, literally. because we continue the discussion exclusively for nbc's streaming platformed peacock, and in a few days you will be able to stream that one to. stay tuned for that. be sure to look at our twitter, at velshi, ali velshi for information -- it is at -- what is our twitter handle? -- it is at hollyville she at msnbc. send us your requests for titles as well as any reactions, i know the email address for, this it is my story at velshi.com. because what is a book club without its members? that does it for me, thank you for watching, velshi, catch me next here next saturday and sunday morning from 8:10 am eastern. and don't forget, velshi is available as a podcast. you can listen to the entire show, look how i change clothes even for the podcast as opposed

to a suit. you can listen to the entire show on the go whenever you like, subscribe and listen for free wherever you get your podcast. it is breakfast time for me, but i can watch breakfast and the sunday show with jonathan tape mark and that begins right now. righ now. >> now the really hard part. after a freezing 15 ballot battle to secure the gavel, house speaker kevin mccarthy must prove he can actually lead. inside this morning from michael steele and howard dean. eyewitness. president biden travels to the u.s. mexico border for the first time today to el paso, texas. a city hit hard by the migrant crisis we'll have a closer look at what is at stake. and capitol police officer harry dunn, the american hero joins me live after receiving the presidential citizens medal for protecting the capitol on january 6th. >> he was fighting back