good to be with you. i'm katy tur. for the united states, it was january 6th. for brazil, it was january 8th, yesterday, two days, two years, and two days after violent insurrectionists stormed the u.s. capitol, violent insurrectionists did the same to the capitol of brazil's government rioters fueled by the same thing as rioters were here, a former president who spread lies about fraud and refused to concede when he lost. supporters of jair bolsonaro protested for months after the october election which went to desilva and the baseless claim that he lost because of faulty electronic voting machine, they blocked roads and highways, and demanded military intervention, to keep bolsonaro in power.

then, on sunday, a week after bolsonaro refused to be present, to peacefully transfer power, during the new president's inauguration, roughly 3,000 people stormed the government complex in brazilia, they broke into the national congress building, the office of the president, and the country's supreme court. just like our january 6th, they smashed window, and trashed offices, overturned furniture, ripped off doors, vandalized statues, and reportedly stole things. after nearly five hours of rioting, officials said they managed to quell the attackers. in all, more than 400 people were arrested, according to local authorities. and 1200 have been detained for questioning according to a police official. late last night, the new president, known just as lula, surveyed the damage, in an address from the capital, he called the attackers fascists

and vowed to find every person who breached the buildings. as for bolsonaro, he is here in the united states, reportedly in orlando, two days before the inauguration, it has not gone unnoticed that he is in the same state as former president donald trump who he was often compared to during the one term in office and not gone unnoticed that some of the same people who amplified donald trump's lies about 2020 also amplified bolsonaro's. among them, steve bannon, jason miller, and my pillow ceo mike lindell. joining me now from miami, nbc news correspondent guad venegas, the brazil news director david biller and "new york times" chief white house correspondent and msnbc political analyst peter baker. so guad, what can you tell us about what happened on sunday and was what is currently happening down there in brazil? >> well, katy, a lot of

parallels when you compare this to january 6th. just like donald trump eventually tweeted, bolsonaro also essentially tweeted yesterday saying he did not agree, he said it was against the rules to break into government buildings, the way they did, but he immediately followed that by saying there was no proof that linked him to what happened in brazil. we know that the current president of brazil tweeted before that indicating that jair bolsonaro shared some of the blame for what had happened in brazil. law makers were not present this. happened on sunday. the president was also not there. he was traveling to a different city in brazil to assess damage that had been caused by rain. he has now returned to the capital and the military has intervened. we saw the images of military police detaining individuals, loading them up on buses and hundreds are being detained for questioning, and the supreme court has now intervened. they have ordered the military to disband any protests of

bolsonaro supporters throughout brazil as they have now taken over the capitol, the military, and they have restored order. and now the president indicates there will be an investigation. at a press conference last night, he indicated, he believed there was financiers behind these protesters, and he believes there is a group of other people that set this up, and this is of course what the investigation will be digging into, as brazilian authorities have now taken over and they continue to take people in for questioning, katy. >> david, what is it like in brazil right now? is it over? is everything fine? is the government back in control? do they have a strong hand down there? or is it still tense? >> well, certainly it is still tense. the justice minister just gave a press conference and he said that the worst appears to be over. as was just mentioned, the government does want to go up, and not jut the rioters, but the people who fasted, this and bussing people in, and paying

for people to take these buses and these flights and it also appears that there were authorities, police, and the security forces that stood by and allowed this to happen. the governor of the federal district has been suspended for 90 days by a supreme court justice, because of what the supreme court has called willful omission, and so really, there's a big investigation going on right now, not just into who is responsible, but the physical trashing of these buildings, but all of the, you know, the forces behind it that enabled it. >> why did it happen two days after the inauguration on a sunday when no one was there? >> your guess is as good as mine. i think that a big part of this is that people were awaiting a signal from bolsonaro. they wanted to know that he was behind them. there was a message from social media from his supporter, wait

two more days and he would tell us what to do, and waiting for the clues and they would parse the photos that we post as enigmatic clues and then no order appeared to come. the armed forces weren't taking action some of the it may have been that frustration and impatience boiled over. but you know, as the government has been saying, and you know, we saw messages and such invitation to the protests on sunday, this wasn't a spontaneous overflow. this was currently something that was organized. at least insofar as the protest itself, whether the actual invasion was planned, or not, the investigation will hopefully get to the bottom of that. but this is something that the investigation is just starting, we're only beginning to understand the forces that brought this about. >> what about bolsonaro? is there any indication that he is under the threat of investigation for all of this, i mean do we know why he is here

in the united states and not still in brazil? >> well, people expected, everyone expected that he traveled to the u.s. first and foremost, or i should say firstly, to avoid passing the presidential sash during the inauguration on january 1st. but also, you know, it's a part of his effort to distance himself from what's going on in brazil, and the supporters, you know, they may blame him for not having taken stronger action and they believe that he could have taken stronger action. and you know, also, he's, he needs to get this time in the u.s. to sort of clear his head a lot of people, i have spoken to analysts who say this isn't 4 d chess that he is playing, he is just trying to get out of the country and get some distance. but like you mentioned, there are investigations. there's several investigations right now, with the supreme court, those need to get kicked down to lower courts, out in that he didn't have the special immunity that is afforded to

sitting presidents. and so he could very well face the threat of legal action. and especially after what happened yesterday, it seems as though there's a renewed desire among a lot of brazilians to hold him accountable and you saw lula in a press conference saying bolsonaro, he called him a genocidists, genocidists have encourage these protects and says bolsonaro is directly responsible. >> the parallels between bolsonaro and trump are many, and he was compared to trump during his time in office, trying to use some of the same play book about covid, some of the same play book about just denying any responsibility and being extreme, this almost seemed inevitable, given that he came out and started denying the election, much in the same way that donald trump is. and also striking, that steve bannon, mike lindell, stephen miller, same names that fuelled

a lot of it here fueling what we saw down there. >> yes, the parallels are of course powerful. i was in mar-a-lago in march 2020 when bolsonaro was there with president trump for a dinner, it was the last time that the american president got to his florida estate before covid really hit in the united states. it was just sort of the last hurrah, and that last hurrah was bolsonaro, i was back there in 2021, with my wife doing search for the book "the divider" and former president trump's office there in mar-a-lago was a gift from president bolsonaro as a matter of fact, it was a portrait of president trump made of booklet casings and president bolsonaro had give him and something that president trump had on display in his office there in 2021 when we went to visit him so i think that gives a sense of who these two are in that sense and you're right, bolsonaro has been called repeatedly the trump of latin america, and i think that is, you know, one of the worries that a lot of people in the united states have had about

what happened on january 6th, and what happened in terms of this effort to overturn the american election, because it then encouraging actions and the world and countries with democratic conditions that aren't even as strong as ours and they look to see what happens here, it looks like something that could be a plausible route forward in your own country, and i think that is, you know, the concern people have for really the four years that trump was in office, that the democratic norms that he was so willing to bust, to sideline, to get around, would then encourage, you know, like-minded people around the world to do the same. and i think that that is exactly what seemed to have happened here. >> and i wonder how much consequence there they're seeing from what we have going on up here, yes, there are prosecutions for those who stormed the capitol on january 6th but the lawmakers who parroted the lies and refused to accept the results of the 2020 election, a lot of them are still in power and what we saw over the weekend and last week, peter, was the people who were

stopping kevin mccarthy from becoming speaker were, many of them were election deniers themselves, the mega maga crowd as they colloquially have become to be known as, so i guess the message from that, how does that sound around the world? >> well, that's exactly right. that's the message that is being sent and the message being sent, when former president trump had repeatedly characterized the people who stormed the capitol on january 6th, 2021, as patriots, as protesters, as heroes, in effect, and he's promised to pardon them, if he takes office again, he has encouraged fundraising for organizations defending them as if they were political prisoners, characterizing them as if they were simply people who were rising up against, you know, tyranny instead of the other way around and that encourages that kind of thinking elsewhere as well, if that can happen in the united states and no consequence for the people at the top who make these kind of, you know, encourage this kind

of, you know, deceptions about what happened during an election, encourage the efforts to try to overturn the democratic election, then it seems more plausible or credible to do that elsewhere. if we can do it here, why can't it happen elsewhere? >> you know, i haven't checked my email in the last couple of minutes, but last i checked kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell hadn't said anything about what happened yesterday in brazil. any word from them in the past couple of minutes, that you've seen, or what do we make of them, their silence on this? >> no, i haven't seen that either and i think it's an uncomfortable parallel that they just as soon not choose to highlight. obviously, mitch mcconnell was far more willing to denounce president trump both in office and after office for his actions in trying to overturn the election, and encouraging the rioters on january 6th. kevin mccarthy of course on the other hand quickly switched gears and went to mar-a-lago within days really of january 6th to, you know, reconnect and

reaffirm in effect former president trump at that point. so the two of them don't have exactly the same position on this. but broadly speaking, it is a parallel neither one wants to highlight. they would both rather move forward and talk about what they're going to do am terms of the biden administration, and the new found power that the republicans have, however tenuously, in the house, and it is the kind of scene that brings back bad memories and political, you know, setbacks. >> talk about lead by example. peter baker, david biller, thank you both for joining us today. and we have breaking news out of georgia. also on the subject of denying an election. the special grand jury in the investigation into donald trump's potential criminal interference into the 2020 election in that state has completed its probe. the report now goes to d. a. fanny will is who will decide whether to approve criminal charges against the former

president and his allies, joining me now is nbc's blayne alexander. what is going to happen now? and will we see any of the grand jury's report? >> reporter: well, that's a big question, katy, and that's what we are going to find out or at least hear from a judge in about two weeks' time. there is a hearing set to answer that very question, on january 24th. now as for the d.a.'s office, the spokesperson today tells me they're not commenting on this. but we do expect that we are going to hear from the d.a. fanni will is or a member of her team from the hearing and that is when the judge who has been overseeing this entire process is going to hear from all concerned party, the d.a.'s office, members of the media, to determine whether or not that report will be made public, either in its entirety, or part, portions of it. now, i think it's important to remind our viewers what exactly this report is. remember, this special grand jury is one that performed a very robust investigation. so what we're likely to see from this report is a summary of that

investigation, one that spanned several months, called dozens of witnesses to testify under oath, but what we're going to see is a summary of that investigation, and also perhaps recommendations on whether or not there will be charges. now, as for the charges themselves, as you said, that is squarely in the hands of the d.a. if she does decide to bring charges, she is going to have to present evidence before another grand jury and go through the normal processes. there but all of this of course circles back to former president donald trump and the phone call that he made to secretary of state brad raffensperger back in january of 2021, but it is important to note that of course while that is the main focus, there are a number of different people who could potentially be charged in this. remember, we heard from some very close trump allies. we heard from some elected officials here of georgia. and we already know that there are at least 17 people who were notified by the d.a. during this process that they are targets of this investigation including rudy giuliani. katy? >> thank you very much, blayne alexander, appreciate it. still ahead, joe briden makes

the first trip to mexico as president but it is what he did not do at the border that is drawing scrutiny. plus kevin mccarthy is facing his first test as house speaker. what some of his allies are already indicating they will vote down. and nurses at two new york city hospitals stage a walkout. what they want and why their hospitals say it's too much. uch. when cold symptoms keep you up, try vicks nyquil severe. just one dose starts to relieve 9 of your worst cold and flu symptoms,

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on the heels of president biden's visit to the border in el paso, a bipartisan group of senators led by kyrsten sinema and john cornyn are doing their own visit. the goal is to actually come up with comprehensive bipartisan immigration legislation. it comes in a uniquely interesting moment while republicans in the house ramp up their criticism of biden's border policy, nbc notes the president is making noticeable

news to the center on immigration, moves he will no doubt be discussing in mexico city today, as he meets with the mexican president and the prime minister justin trudeau of canada. joining me from mexico city is monica alba, white house correspondent. tough assignment you have in that wonderful part of the world. monica, thanks for joining us. talk to me about this move that first readout shows us with president biden and center on immigration. >> it is an absolute honor and pleasure to be covering this from here, katy, i can attest to that, and very many thorny issues on the agenda, when these two leaders continue their discussion later today. they already rode together for more than an hour in the presidential motorcade after president biden landed in mexico city last night, so they've started this, but they will, behind closed doors, have a far more extensive conversation and bilateral meeting. but the president will certainly be bringing front and center

what he witnessed yesterday on the ground when he was in el paso, and in terms of the moves to the center, that's one of them, visiting the border, something that after months of pressure and criticism, mostly from republicans, but also from some border district democrats, he finally decided to do and go see for himself. so the president will be thanking mexico in some respects because of some other new moves that he unveiled last week that really hinge on mexico's critical cooperation and participation. so this is the expansion of title 42, that trump-era policy, that is all about public health and covid, that the biden administration actually wants to see come to an end, but the supreme court stepped in and said that that needs to be decided later on. so for now it stands, and the biden administration has now said that migrants coming from cuba, nicaragua and haiti, in addition to venezuela which was a part of this already, will be expelled back to mexico. so again that is where while

discussing, he needs to make sure that mexico will continue to allow for that, and that is the plan right now. while president biden talks about this new pathway to come legally for migrants, from those four countries that i just mentioned. it is a major balancing act and the president continues to be on defense for this border visit as well. yesterday, because he didn't actually come into contact or meet with any migrants while on the ground. >> any indication when it comes to this bipartisan group of senators that are going down to the border, i mean mark kelly as well, kyrsten sinema, john cornyn, chris coons and others, that that they're in contact with the white house on trying to develop a plan to put legislation forth, even if it is something that house republicans strike down? >> reporter: that is exactly what the white house would like to see happen. even back in december, when we were talking about the lame duck congress, the president was hopeful there was a possibility to try to explore something there, and what was put forward was not able to proceed, so when the president unveiled these new

actions last week, he continued to call on congress and said that meaningful comprehensive immigration reform, something that a senator he worked on and vice president, we like to see that happen, but again, it is just one of the most unmanageable, intractable issues that the biden administration has been dealing with, so this is something that the president will continue to call on lawmakers to work on, in terms of that bipartisan visit, i think another major topic that lots of them have been talking about is fentanyl-reducing drug deaths, and there has been an historic number of overdoses in the u.s., much originating from mexico. that is another major big ticket item that the president will be discussing with his mexican counterparts later today. >> the comprehensive legislation reform and not just a thorn in president biden's behind but a thorn in many presidents before him. thousands of nurses from two of new york's largest hospitals are on strike right now. what they are demanding and what

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the house has a new speaker, now comes the hard part, getting things done, every new congress has to pass a fresh set of house rules to kick things off. this routine procedure usually receives little attention. but as you know, these are not usual times. nor are they routine. the rules package was at the very heart of mccarthy's negotiations with that small band of republican holdouts. so what did he give away there? joining me now is nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake and punchbowl news co founder john bresnahan. what is in the rules package and what did he give away? >> it is a 55-page document with

some mundane details like banning former members of congress from using the congressional gym but it also includes some of what we will see in the nye republican conference that is particularly interesting including new committees, special committees including one to investigate republicans called a weaponization of federal law enforcement and includes changing the motion to vacate, the threshold to get rid of a speak down to one vote but republicans say they don't think it will be misused and it includes sort of the outlines of some spending rules that i think have some more moderate members concerned, that members will have to cut as they go, to pay for any new programs, and try to lock in spending limits at 202 rates for negotiations. and now, this doesn't seem to be the kind of significant pushback to this rules package that might mean it won't get passed, but there is concern among the more moderate flank of the republican party that by locking in these rules, and more broadly these other concessions that mccarthy may have made, they're included

in the rules package and may be more handshake gleams and it will be harder to do, a, anything, essentially legislating and moderate members to keep their john jobs in 2024 after they are subjected to some potential risky show votes along the way. >> what about the secret three-page addendum that you report on this morning in punchbowl. i think you're on mute, my friend. >> this is what mccarthy was working on for days with his conservative opponents, okay? and there's a document they're circulating, they're letting the people read it, they're letting members read, it but they're not giving them any copies. we have been trying to get it for a couple of days. i know garrett is doing the same thing. and you know, they're not giving us a copy of it, they're not, we have seen, we know the outlines of it, but no one, no one, not even members are being given a copy of this whole thing. so it is really, you know, just a leadership and maybe some top

folks there, and this is the stuff that is really controversial. this is, you know, three conservatives on the rules committee, which sets the procedure for the house, the fy '22 spending that garrett was talking about, that agreement, debt ceiling options, this is the thing that is really controversial. and we're not being allowed to see that. and so, and there will be more, we will see more guidance this week, but we won't be able to see the secret three-page document. >> and they're talking about cutting defense spending which is usually anathema for republicans. is that part of this? >> they're saying they won't cut defense spending but what they have to do to get back to fy '22, 2022 spending levels is, cut at least $130 billion in discretionary spending. now discretionary spending, that's the one that goes to all of the federal agencies shall the pentagon, the department, all of the, the agricultural

department, all of the departments they read about, and cut 130 billion and we will cut it from the nondefense side, the domestic side, and there is not a $130 billion that you cut from the nondefense side and republicans know that, the leadership knows that, so they have to get into some defense spending on this. they have to. there's no way you can get enough cuts on the nondefense side to do it. so like this is already a trap for them, they're already going down a road where they're not going to be able to deliver where they're saying, you know, that it just, there is no way they can do this without getting into some kind of pentagon budget cuts and that's going to be a huge problem for the republican conference. >> and there are already some republicans, more moderate republicans, more hawkish republicans saying i don't think i can vote for it. and there is talk about more, tony gonzalez, potentially not being on board for this, as more people get a glimpse of whatever this three-page secret addendum is, is kevin mccarthy at risk of

not getting this rules package voted through? >> i think that's unlikely. i think the appetite for further chaos within the republican party is just low right now. members i've been talk to all day are happy to have last week behind them, they have kind of recast what they went through last night, or last week, as a necessary family conversation, and they needed to agree on what they agree on, kind of set the parameters by which they can move forward, moderates by definition are less likely to rock the boat on anything, including on a rules package, and the two people you outlined, nancy mace said over the weekend she was a maybe, tony gonzalez said he was a. no and that's not enough to cause a problem in and of itself. now, unless there's kind of a secret pocket of moderates ready to go to war again over this, i think we're unlikely to see a major, major showdown over the rules package. we will just see that pop up every time, particularly appropriations bills, and spending authorizations, anything like that, with a

dollar figure next to it, comes across the desks of some of these lawmakers, we will see lots of the little fights over and over again over the next few years. >> can we talk about george santos for a second? >> sure. >> there are a lot of questions about how he lied about who he was, a great shot on him yawning from the weekend, or last friday. and now there is reporting from "politico," that his, one of his aides impersonated mccarthy's top aide, pretended he was that person, in order to get campaign finance, or campaign donations. so there was an impersonation. there is a watchdog group that is complaining that he violated campaign finance law by misrepresenting his spending and the source of his funding. i know that he was elected. how do you survive this when it comes out that your top aide is impersonating the speaker's top aide to get money, bres? >> yes, that had been actually reported already, and we're

getting more details on it, that it was more egregious and was actually happening in his first run for congress, he ran in 2020, and he didn't succeed and it happened again apparently in this cycle, which is just insane, and probably some kind of a criminal violation. the other thing is, and this has struck me all along, santos loaned himself 700,000 dollars for a campaign. you can spend a limited amount of money on your own campaign. but the problem is, is that he was only making an income of $55,000 a year. so there's been questions all along, where did santos get this money? now, he, there was a corporation he worked for, but you can't just use corporate money in your campaign. so this is going to be a huge issue. now, look, he's already under criminal investigation. in a couple of places at the state level, and at the federal level, and i think this will be an issue that would come up in those, in those reviews, if he

lied about where his money came from, if he took improper funds, corporate funds, so i think that would be something that would be, where they're not going to wait, i don't think the feds would wait for the federal election committee. i think if they found something, they will give it to the fbi and i think with mr. santos, we will hear more about it down the road. >> as our colleagues on the hill have reported there is an official ethics complaint filed with against george santos. thank you very much, guys. we will watch this story. i'm sure we will find out more about it in the coming days, probably. and more than 7,000 nurses at two of new york's busiest hospitals did not go to work today. instead, they showed up outside of work, picket signs in hand, at the intersection of rsv, flu and covid season. negotiations over pay and staffing for nurses at mount sinai hospital and montefiori

medical center failed to produce a deal for a new why the agreement last night. joining me now is vaughn hillyard. what are the nurses saying they want and why are the hospitals saying it is too much? >> reporter: these contract negotiations have waged now for several weeks and it went into the heart of the early morning here, katy, before ultimately the strike began at sunrise. not only the upper east side manhattan hospital but one in the bronx. we're talking about nearly 7,000 nurses that are potentially on strike now, here, and when you talk to them, it's more than compensation that we're talking about. you know, the nurses, a good number of them have told me that look, we're kind of tired and we're beyond the point of getting applause for so-called pandemic heroes. now is the time to have fair contracts and as part of these negotiations calling for a greater number of nurses inside these facilities. that's why i want to introduce everybody to alisa here who has been a nurse here for a little more than three years now in the labor and delivery unit here, and can you give me a sense of why you guys are on strike now and what you want the public to

understand about what you guys are doing? >> i think we're all out here because we find it very important to put our patients first. we don't think about how much anyone makes, how much, what they do for a living, we want to take care of our patients, it doesn't matter, we want to make sure they get the best care, we need enough nurses to be able to care for those patients and make sure we're getting our breaks and rested enough to care for these patients. >> and we don't all get to go inside and watch what you guys are doing on a daily basis. why strike now and i was talking about a nurse since 41 years and you haven't done it since you started your year right now. >> i haven't done it and i think it is now because it is so important, people are not going to become nurses and this is the norm and travel nurses are a big thing and it is all about money. people don't become nurses to make money, i didn't become a nurse because i wanted to be a millionaire. i like helping people, i love babies, we're in labor and delivery and that's what i'm in this. not about money. >> what about the ratio between nurses and patients, what are you guying saying? >> it is a little different. and some of the other units,

labor and delivery, you can't be in two deliveries at one time. sometimes it happens, but it is definitely worse than the other units. everybody knows, it is sometimes 10 to 15 patients at a time for one nurse and it is, 12 hours straight, with no lunch, you can't sit down to eat food, it's not right. we can't take care of patients if we can't take care of ourselves. >> thank you you for your work and for all of the nurses, we will be in touch as the negotiations continue. this is the situation that is at a dead still right now, katy, as the union heads along with these hospitals, continue to go forward with these negotiations. >> you're at mount sinai right now, and montefiore, the other hospital involved and everyone knows how hard nurses work, despite the offer of a 19.1% compounded wage increase, the same offer agreed to at the wealthiest of our peer institutions, and a commitment to create over 170 new nursing

positions, and despite a call from governor hochul for arbitration, ny-sans, the new york nursing union, has decided to walk away from the bedsides of their patients. therefore at 6:00 a.m., they were not there, and this is a sad day for new york city, it's going to spark uncertainty across our community. vaughn hillyard, thank you very much. and coming up, what prince harry says his stepmom camilla did in order to rehab her image. why he is calling her dangerous and what it could mean for the future of the monarchy. and the united kingdom. and the united kingdom moderate-to-severe eczema. it doesn't care if you have a date, a day off, or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema with steroid-free cibinqo. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments. and it's proven to help provide clearer skin and relieve itch fast. cibinqo continuously treats eczema

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including prince harry's believer that his stepmother camilla has leaked bad stories about other royal family members to the press, in order to receive more favorable coverage of herself. >> she was the villain. she was the third person in the marriage. she needed to rehabilitate her image and with her on the way to being queen consult, there was going to be people or bodies left in the street because of that. >> joining me now from london is nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons. again, a lot of revelations in this book but that one was certainly striking. >> reporter: yes. it really was. for many people watching, who remember or know about what happened in those diana years of course it is going to resonate, isn't it? i mean, listen, every family has separations, divorces, everybody, maybe not every family and many people, and know the tension it causes but to imagine how painful that is, to be talking about your stepmother, talking to the

media, to try and improve her image, while doing this for you and your wife, this is harry's version, there are 400 pages here, it's harry's version of events. it's like buckingham palace, katy, there is silence. and so, you know, we don't know how the royals will respond but they had to respond to every page because there is so much here. >> there is a lot there. and the palace is obviously not going to comment. they haven't commented but harry has always alleged they don't need to public commently and not say anything on the rop record and feed whispers and stories to the british press and we have seen stories about, that read stories in the state, how this only added stress and harm to the queen's dying days, her last days and harry also talks about, keir, the moments that he had left with her, that he wasn't invited with the rest of the family to see her and her last moments on this earth, that he

only got there afterwards. what can you tell us about how this is being received by the british public? >> reporter: well, you know, i think that is really important because it points out, of course, that is recent, the funeral of the queen, of course, so the family feuding, he says continued then. his resentment goes through until then. so the problem for the palace is, if they respond, it potentially just, you ask for another response, from the prince, what is fascinating is that there are cont digs here, katy, so you know, the apparent contradictions, having said loving his family, loving his brother and his father but at the same time it is clear he has fundamental differences about the way the royal family operates and he believes you must even, calls it his life's work, that he needs to take on the relation between the royals and the media. and remember this, prince charles, as he then was, chose to have this new approach towards the media to improve his image, after the diana days, so really what harry is doing is

questioning the way the king has operated for many, many years, as well as how he has rehabilitated the reputation of his wife, the queen con sort, that is why i think it is the first crisis in king charles's reign, it is more than just a family squabble, it is pretty serious, actually and you ask how the country referring it here, harry and meghan's reputation ratings have dropped here, and so have the ratings of the royal family here in the united kingdom, so they will be worried in buckingham palace. >> clear simmen, thank you very much. former manager editor of the sunday times in london clive, it's good to have you, and some might write it off, it is a family drama and it is tabloid and why should i be paying attention to this, but there are those out there that say the revelations is making in this book, the accusations the way the family operates and the way it operated especially after diana's death and the way that

he didn't even know how to show emotion and we have to go out and shake hands and didn't understand the hands on the streets were wet because they were crying because he couldn't show that emotion and these revelations at the way the family operated, do they strike at the core of public support and the monarchy. does this threaten the monarchy as it currently stands? >> well, no one in their right mind i think would be wanting to be raised in that family in the first place, so i was amazed as harry is together, coherent and lucid as he certainly is in all of his interviews. and if you think about it, this is a family where three out of four marriages end in divorce, it is literally broken marriages and not only lost his mother, and lost his father before he lost his mother and charles was always a remote father and after diana died, the two of them, william and harry, were cast like orphans, in the middle of

this dysfunctional family, and where did they turn for help? what kind of guidance? they needed a father. you can see that from one of the revelations in the book that her ry and william had a spat -- harry and william had a spat, and fought each other and what was missing in both of their name, as much as in william's as in harry's is the guiding hand of a father. and normally, even if that was the case in a normal family, they have to contend to recognize some of the finest newspapers of the world, are also some of the worst and what what we're seeing now and dangerous for the monarchy in this situation is that if you rely on your support, by not saying anything yourself, but having proxies say it for you, and if those proxies are some of the worst newspapers in the world, which they are, the daily mail and the sun, for example, and don't, let's forget that rupert mur dork's news of world, hacked into the cell phones of william and harry very early on, so that gives you the kind of

external threat, in the sense that they had to both come through and now you have, charles has not really established his kingship as keir was saying, it is a very treacherous time and the country is in a serious meltdown, things are hard for the people, so charles is facing the question, what kind of role does he have, what is his relevance now, in a situation of dire stress in the country itself, how can he present himself, and make it that way, and continue to seem relevant and as long as you have this going on, it is not just background noise, it is low ground noise now and i think he is in great danger. i don't think he is emotionally and personally equipped to come forward with the kind of stature of maturity and guidance that is necessary to bring his own family together, let alone the family of a nation that he is

supposed to be the king of. >> what does it mean to lose the monarchy, maybe not in five or ten years, but according to polling, britains are less certain about the existence in 50 years and that would be the fine, if we take a lifespan in account, that prince william will be king william? >> well, yes, i mean i don't think it will take that time, actually, i think unless, and with the coronation now, if the coronation turns out to be another one of those ritual pageants, which as i said before, that kind of a design, to make the people feel good about ceremony and tradition and understanding what the family stands for, and i don't know what it stands for now, by the way, with this, but everything will depend on the coronation. is that coronation going to be seem, because of it is charles as king, it is to establish him, which he is not established yet, if that looks too much like the

old-fashioned ways, and something that not only doesn't lete to the people of the lives of the country, that is going to precipitate of a crisis of the relevance of the monarchy. >> what does it mean for britain or the u.k. diplomatically speaking? i know they're not part of the government officially, they're not involved in law making, but they've been integral to not only the way that britons see themselves, but the relationships that the country has forged with other nations around the world. >> well, that brings us to the queen really, the queen was a remarkable example of soft power and brilliant with that and for 20 or 30 years she managed to manage the transition from imperial sovereignty to a collective sovereignty of europe, and she was always a very worldly monarch. she knew so many people through her life. charles doesn't have that background. instead of being part of a shared sovereignty with europe,

he is now back to the brexit vortex, where the country itself doesn't seem able to work it out, so he's got to work on a role for himself and the monarchy. all these things are converging on him at the same time. they compound the very thing that you're talking about, which is the status of britain, its authority and attraction in the world, and it's coming now to a situation i think, starting to articulate what the future of the country is and normally the mo ark ny is one of the trop props, it props up the whole country and the act to speak for the country, as the politicians do, and charles doesn't seem to be able to get past that yet. >> it is not just a reality show. there are real implications for what it would mean for the country to lose the institution. constitutionally, but also again

diplomatically. clive irving, always great to have you. thanks for joining us. again the book hits shelves tomorrow. it is called "spare" as in spare to the heir to the throne. that's going to do it for me today. hallie jackson picks up our coverage next. day. hallie jackson picks up our coverage next. with olay hyalurc body lotion 95% of women had visibly-smoother skin. be fearless with olay hyaluronic body lotion and body wash. [ sneezing ] are you okay? be fearless oh, it's just a cold. if you have high blood pressure, a cold is not just a cold. coricidin is the #1 doctor recommended cold and flu brand. specially designed for people with high blood pressure. be there for life's best moments. trust coricidin. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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