>> that is reprehensible. >> okay, horrible person. >> brad, all report you to nadine. >> i just want your leg bones to be okay. >> i brought the tiger >> really, you got somebody on the organ now? >> hey man, you're gonna pay for dinner, they're gonna pay -- >> oh yes, he brought the tiger. for what it's worth, mike rogers did apologize for the dustup at the gates, and in response, gates says he has forgiven rogers. but one might wonder, and i certainly was wondering, what exactly were democrats doing, during all of that trauma, well katie porter's book of choice, may have said it all. she was spotted reading, the subtle art of not giving an f, during all that chaos. that is some expert level shade, from katie porter, who reportedly is considering a run

for senate, and that would certainly be something, this show gives enough about, and on that note, i wish you all a very good night. u all very good night. from all our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late yet again, i'll see you again tomorrow. tomorrow thank you at-home for joining us this hour, happy to have you here, lots of news have all kinds gone out right now in california the monsoon style rains there, have literally 10% of the entire u.s. population living under a flood watch right now. the population of california so, big the win 90% of californians, or under a flood watch, tonight that's 10% of the whole u.s. population in this succession of extremely wet storms the north central coast of

california has been particularly hard hit already, and now with additional storms, still coming, there are all kinds of northern california rivers that don't usually flood, that are looking now like they are going to flood. there's the places where there aren't a lot of flood mitigation systems, because there are rivers that don't usually flood. there's not a lot of local experience, with inland flooding, with people surviving it and mitigating it. so, it is bad, tonight in a lot of california, with more rain and more storms that arrive with over the next few days. we'll be keeping eyes on that, as well as everybody else in the country. in new mexico, tonight, this is an interesting story. albuquerque police have just held a press conference tonight, so not to development in the recent shootings, they have targeted the homes and offices, of at least half a dozen new elected officials who are all members of the democratic party. the shootings have hit buildings, not people.

but they've apparently all been targeted at democratic politicians, over the last several weeks. well, tonight albuquerque police and elsewhere press conference that they have a suspect in custody, who they believe may be connected to the shootings. they say the man under the age of 50, and they say he's actually in custody and different, charges unrelated to the shootings, but they believe he's connected to the shootings, targeting democrats. targeting democrats, including the incoming new mexico speaker of the house. police see all of us said at this press conference, that they have now recovered a firearm, a gun that they believe was used, and at least one of the shootings targeting new mexico democratic lawmakers, again, that is just breaking tonight from albuquerque, we will let you know more about that as we learn more. tonight, in a state of georgia, all eyes are on the prosecutors office, in fulton county, or special ground jury has now completed is, where after eight months of ravine evidence, and hearing testimony from dozens of witnesses, the special grand

jury convened at fulton county, today gave the fulton county prosecutors office accommodations on whether criminal charges should be brought against people who participated in efforts to falsify the results of the presidential election in georgia, in 2020. we will have more on this coming up this hour. obviously this is a fraud in potentially historic undertaking, never before in history the night, states has a former president been charged with the crime. but that is a distinct possibility for former president trump in this georgia investigation, the report of the special grand jury there is an, in the report of the special grand jury is not public we are not sure when it will be made public, but the prosecutors office has that report in-house and can make their recommendation based on those can make their decisions based on the recommendations, however they see fit of more ahead on this this hour including with this milestone means, in terms of when we can

expect to know about decisions made by that fulton county georgia prosecutor, as to whether or not she's gonna bring criminal charges, and against him. again, more to come on that tonight. potentially, a very big deal out of georgia tonight. in washington, d.c. tonight, there's got a lot going. on after a postmidnight vote on friday, night we will begin leader mccarthy is finally elected to be speaker of the house. a duly elected speaker the house is one of the two things you need, in order to have a functioning house of representatives. the other thing you need is for the house to agree on the rules by which will do its work. well, that vote on the rules, was tonight. it was more fraught than usual, given all decide agreements, with pro trump hard-liners in order to get the speakership matter settled at all. we'll be checking in on that this hour as well. including what republicans in the house may be trying to do in that body. to try to protect former trump

from some of the federal criminal investigations that involve him. along those lines. there was a brief flurry of excitement on the right this afternoon when cbs news was first to report that the u.s. justice department had started investigating the discovery of classified documents found at a think tank called the biden center. this was effectively where president biden had his office in washington after serving as vice president in the obama administration. he vacated offices there effectively when he declared

his run for president in 2020. the biden center is sort of the biden home in d. c. in terms of his work life out of office. on november 2nd, lawyers for president biden, lawyers who work in his personal capacity were packing up some of the office space that the vice president used at the penn biden center. in so doing, they found classified documents there. classified documents that they say we're in a locked closet inside those offices mixed in with some non classified documents. this is of course a weird set of circumstances, but that is what they say happened. the white house has confirmed the basics of this account, as has of other news organizations after cbs news was first break the story. the reason this created a lot

of excitement on the right tonight is that it immediately created a perceived, what about defense for president trump. president trump is under federal criminal investigation for apparently deliberately hoarding hundreds of classified documents at his home in florida, including refusing to hand them over after national archives told him that he had to, even after they subpoenaed him to get those documents. there is this brief excitement on the right tonight, they thought they had a new defense. it is supposedly so bad what trump did at mar-a-lago with all the nuclear documents. but look, joe biden is just as bad, why are they serving search warrants on president biden like the way they did with former president trump? as i said tonight, a brief flurry of excitement about this

prospect when this news broke about the penn biden center. the reason it was only a briefly of excitement is because in president biden's case he and his lawyers appear to have actually done the right thing when it comes to these classified documents. but his lawyers say they discover these documents among his vice presidential papers at his office, at the penn biden center on november 2nd. the white house counsel's office they notified the national archives that same day about what had been found. the national archives did not even know these documents were missing and had not been seeking their return. the archives took custody of that material the following morning. that appears to be. attorney general merrick garland has asked one of the last remaining trump appointed u.s. attorneys to review the discovery of these documents at the penn biden center. but it does not sound like there it is an adversarial process at all. the white house says it is cooperating with the department of justice on the review. and again, this was not, as it wasn't trump's case, the archives desperately seeking the return of materials that trump was blowing off and trump was blowing off those requests. ultimately, blowing off the subpoena to return all of those documents. these are documents that were inadvertently held at the penn biden center, discovered by biden's attorneys, they notified the white house who notify the national archives

that these doctors were the wrong case. the archives moved to retrieve them. that appears to be the sum total of it, at least as far as we know. again, the white house says they are cooperating fully with the archives and with the justice department who are reviewing the situation. again, we'll bring you more on this if we learn more about this tonight. the brief euphoria on the right this was somehow exonerate about this, it's already turning into a bit of a hangover because of the stark contrast between the actions of the current president and the former guy when it comes to classified material. when it comes to law and accountability and presidents and former presidents, this is actually what i've been stuck on all day. this was arizona april 20th 2020. right wing protesters, lots of whom had guns stormed the governor's office in arizona, what is called the executive

tower in phoenix where the arizona governor has his offices. that was april 20th 2020. this was michigan ten days later, april 30th 2020. right-wing protesters storming into the michigan state capital. former president responded to that action by saying a line quote, these are very good people. this was a few months after this, august 2020. right-wing protesters have passed police and force their way into the idaho state in boise, breaking windows along the way. you republican state house speaker in idaho actually ordered that the crowd be allowed in after they initially force their way past police. he said he feared what other violence would break out if police tried to hold the line against this armed crowd. this was just a few months later. november, november 7th 2020, right wing protesters show up in big numbers heavily armed. this was at the pennsylvania state capital. this was two weeks after that in virginia, right wing protesters show up and march in military formation,

conspicuously armed at the state capital city of richmond in virginia. you see the return images there? that was richmond, virginia. this was two weeks after that. right-wing armed protesters showed up at the michigan secretary of state's house. this was a week after that, right-wing armed protesters showed up in georgia at the georgia state capital demanding a citizens tribunal in which they said they wanted to do citizens trials, and presumably citizens punishments for elected officials they were threatening of the georgia election results. this was less than two weeks after that, right wing armed protesters showing up at the oregon state capital. they sprayed a bear mace and police officers who were protecting the capitol. they shattered glass doors. all those incidents happened in 2020, and it is only a partial list from that your long. that doesn't even cover the whole year. that was just april to december, and not including all of them. but all of those things, all of those right-wing violent, mostly armed incursions

happened before january 6th, before the big thousands wrong attack on the u.s. congress in the first week of january 21. however surprise we might have been as a country when that happened in january 2021, the american right-wing had been showing us for months all of the country that that was how they plan to operate from here on out. in 2020, they sent armed mobs out to govern sites in michigan, in idaho, in pennsylvania, in oregon, in georgia, you name it. they sent them into state capitals, they sent them to the offices of state officials, they sent them to the homes of statewide officials. always with guns, always with force. and now even as the national expression of this tactic in washington d. c. january six 2021. even has that has been successfully adjudicated in federal court as an act of sedition, and as upwards of 1000 people have been criminally charge for their participation, and the national version of this tactic from 2021.

now we are starting to see how this looks when this american right-wing tactic gets translated into a foreign language and foreign countries. it was only last month when german police arrested more than two dozen people who they say were planning a similar armed right-wing attack on the german parliament. they were well armed, they were fairly well connected, one former member of parliament was among those arrested. it was thought that her access to the problem building as a former member might have been used to get these armed attackers inside on the day of their plan. now this month, it is brazil. trump right-wing former -- he lost his bid for reelection on the last day of october. the timeframe is almost exactly the same from when trump lost reelection in early november 2020. his supporters attacked the u. s. capital the first week of january. bolsonaro lost reelection in the last day of october and now his supporters have attacked the national capital the first week of january as well. bolsonaro, like trump, said in advance of the presidential election that the election was rigged. the only way he could lose was to fraud. like trump, bolsonaro said in advance that he would only accept results if you want. like trump, bolsonaro then lost and like trump, bolsonaro then

refused to concede. he also refused to go to his successor's inauguration, just like trump did he. when bolsonaro supporters attacked their national capital yesterday, it was like watching a southern hemisphere southern performance. southern hemisphere southern performance of that january 6th attack. the images and videos coming out of the brazilian capitol or so uncannily similar to what we saw at home. the pro bolsonaro mob attacked journalist and stole and smashed journalist equipment just as the pro trump thaw mob did on january 6th. the mob use police barricades as battery ramps. they attacked police officers in bloody handprint combat. they ransacked the offices of members of the brazilian government. bolsonaro, like trump, said in advance of the presidential election that the election was rigged. the only way he could lose was to fraud. like trump, bolsonaro said in advance that he would only accept results if you want. like trump, bolsonaro then lost and like trump, bolsonaro then refused to concede. he also refused to go to his successor's inauguration, just like trump did he. when bolsonaro supporters attacked their national capital yesterday, it was like watching a southern hemisphere southern performance. southern hemisphere southern performance of that january 6th attack. the images and videos coming out of the brazilian capitol or

so uncannily similar to what we saw at home. the pro bolsonaro mob attacked journalist and stole and smashed journalist equipment just as the pro trump thaw mob did on january 6th. the mob use police barricades as battery ramps. they attacked police officers in bloody handprint combat. they ransacked the offices of members of the brazilian government. they took selfies and post in government chambers. just like trump did, bolsonaro waited silently for hours as the attack was underway. he only put out a statement calling for peace once the security forces had regain control of the capitol and repel the invasion. bolsonaro's family and

supporters, just like trump's, soon started claiming that it wasn't them at all who attacked the capitol, it was bad guys, it was left-wingers, it was antifa, criminals dressed up like bolsonaro supporters. it wasn't really bolsonaro supporters who did all of this ransacking and he trashed the capitol. the parallels are so tight, it's almost stupid. it almost just seems like reading the same script in a different language. and seeing english language hashtags trending online about the attacks. seeing english language signs at the attack in a country where they speak portuguese, not english. it tells you something about how this may be more than just inspired by what happened here and our own right-wing attempt at a violent government overthrow.

but there's also some important notes. for example, in brazil they actually arrested people on the day of the attack. more than 1000 people were arrested yesterday, unlike our own capitol attack on january 6th in which almost no one was arrested until well after it was all over and mostly attackers had gone home. in both case, they have more than 1000 people in custody today from yesterday's attack. also in brazil's case, they launched this attack a week after the transfer of power had already happened. not before the transfer of power had happened like the trump supporters in d. c.. because the new president of brazil has already been sworn in, bolsonaro is already an ex president, that has all sorts of implications for the former president -- and whether he is going to be held responsible for what his followers just did. bolsonaro, bizarrely, is in florida right now.

since the day that he left office, he has been staying at a weird little suburban mansion near disney world which he rented from a mixed martial arts fighter. the state department spent today fending off requests from reporters about what exactly bolsonaro is doing here. is he here to try to avoid prosecution on the numerous corruption probes and other forms of criminal investigations that he is facing in brazil? the state department is fending off questions today about what kind of visa bolsonaro's on and what is going to happen if in fact he faces charges at home. brazil asked the united states to extradite him to face trial over there. we are also learning tonight that even more weirdly, the official in the brazilian government who is the security chief specifically responsible for security in brazil, in the national capital. he was also in florida at the time the attack on the capitol happened this weekend. he has since been fired from the brazilian government as of today. what was he doing in florida

when the attack took place? was he still there now? we have a lot going on in the news right now. we have the new congress finally getting seated in a process more chaotic and contentious than anything we have seen from before the civil war. we have the possible prosecution of our immediate former president looming, given multiple active criminal investigations of him and multiple jurisdictions, including one that appears to be getting quite close to ripen estate of georgia. and some that his allies in washington seem bent on disruptor block if they can do so. we have what appears to be more politicized violence in that we have six members of the same political party, all apparently having their homes and offices shot up in new mexico. again, police announcing tonight for the first time that they have someone in custody who they believe may be connected to the shootings. we have president biden at the southern border contending with the knot of immigration and its critics, and its logistics. we've got record-breaking extreme weather again, this time on the west coast. next week, will be somewhere

else because record-breaking once in a century where there is a weekly occurrence in the states. we have a lot going on. we have a lot of challenges. but on top of it all, we all now need to contend with the fact that at least florida appears to be developing as a refuge for would be dictators for whom the violent efforts of their supporters were not quite enough to keep them in power. florida is apparently lousy with that kind of overripe fruit right now. and we need to contend with the fact that whether or not the world still sees us as a beacon of democracy, a city on a hill, the far-right around the world apparently now sees our far-right as a model for violent mass attack against the institutions of government. as americans, we take great pride in leading the world most things, we don't not take great pride in this. joining us now is timothy snyder, professor of history at yale university. he is the author of among many books, the bestseller on tyranny, 20 lessons for the 20th century. professor snyder, it's a great pleasure to see you. thank you for joining us tonight. >> glad we with you. >> in terms of how tyranny

works and how authoritarianism works. i'm a little bit worried that i'm seeing this through two american lens. i'm seeing all of this reason american precedent for the sort of thing we saw in brazil this weekend. should i be looking at this with a wider and more international lens? this is the sort of thing that authoritarian movements and far-right movements to all the time, they should an echo january 6th so much as we should see it as a typical right-wing fascist pro authoritarian tactic that

people use all of the world. >> well, i think you are right to point to the evidence and similarities between january 6th and january 8th. both in january 6th and january 8th as you suggest, they are about larger trends. one of them is to just credit institutions. when you storm institutions, when you show you can make yourself physically present in institutions, when you break windows, when you crash the place, what you're showing is symbolically, physically, that institutions don't matter. what matters is force, what matters is will. that of course is one of the oldest, one of the classic anti-democratic or anti rule of law foods. you should disrespect the institutions physically and then all that seems to be last is the possibility that a person, a strong and, something besides these institutions should be running the country. if we can humiliate the institutions, then we get the strongman. that is a logic which is on display here. but it is also a classic logic. then likewise, a lie, and

alternative reality. a strong belief among lots of people that what happened is not what happened. that we didn't really lose the vote. we really want the vote. that is common between january 6th and january 8th. it is also a big 20th century, 24 century phenomenon. big lies which capital -- which capture lots of people. but with the recent twist, i think this is true in both brazil and u.s., there are bubbles that allow this to happen. the people who are storming these buildings are emerging from alternative reality into real reality as they do and they're sure they are right. they are not hearing any other voices in social media reality where they live. >> in terms of contending with the tactical power of those things that you're describing, in terms of standing up for democracy, trying to protect democracy against these kinds of forces and attacks, how much does it matter that there is swift accountability for the people who participate in it and the people who organize it? one of the differences between january 8th and brazil, january six in the united states is that we saw lots of arrests in brazil. and we have a sitting president who is the successor to bolsonaro saying that those who participated in this and organized it will be held

accountable swiftly and surely. what role does accountability in the legal system, the criminal justice system play in defending this off as a tactic against democracy? >> the comparison is absolutely right. i'm very pleased for the brazilian government that they are able to react so quickly. it is very important that people who try to carry out this kind of fascist move or aware that the law also -- one of the things they're trying to do is monopolize themselves. they're trying to say, we are the ones who control violence, we intimidate you, we intimidate the law. we are gonna do something that is so strange, confusing, and violent, that you won't know how to react to it. it was a bit of that in the u. s. on january 6th, it was so unexpected in violent that the

criminals just walked away from the crime scene. that is odd. we did not see that in result today. it is really important, it is really important because things like this, they are kind of a test of force. the people who are on the far right, that is what they believe in. they believe in force. if they don't meet any force in the other and, then they are going to continue. that doesn't mean that the people who are defending the law should be unpredictable. it means that they should be predictable. it means that they should be confident that something like this is a crime and pictures like the ones we are seeing where if you commit a crime, you go into short property, you commit all kinds of crimes, you will end up on a bus. that is normal, democracy -- destroy the fascists always tell is, democracy are weak, they won't fight back, they're flabby, they're decadent. i think it's a pretty important

for democracies to say no, actually we stand for something. that's something we stand for is law. >> i think the point you just made is very important about how there is a tactical impact to see unpredictable and chaotic, weird, strange. treating these things as climbs among other things, accountability is an important concept. but among other things, using the criminal law to respond to things like this has an effect of rationalizing the experience of what the country has just been through, of imposing not only order in terms of people being held accountable, but also a framework of understanding that this is a crime, this is something that exists within our system. it is not too sure system, our system itself can handle things like this. i think that rationalizing force is an important inside. >> and we are all equal before the law. we are all equal before the law. any of us do something like this, -- you are asking directly about trump, it's very important for democracy not to have these superheroes or super villains who are judged by different standards. it is very important that executives and former executives be subject to the rule of law. once you start developing legal

theory according to which there are exceptional people, that little loophole will grow bigger and bigger all the time. >> timothy snyder, professor of history at yale university. the author of, among many other books, on tyranny, 20 lessons from the 20th century which is mandatory reading that you must do before watching the rachel maddow show. professor snyder, thank you for your time tonight, it's good to see you. >> thank you. >> we've got much more to get to, stay with us. to keep it together. now there's new theraflu flu relief with a max strength fever fighting formula. the right tool for long lasting flu symptom relief. hot beats flu. before we begin, i'd like to thank our sponsor, liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. and by switching, you could even save $652. thank you, liberty mutual. now, contestants ready? go! why? why? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ >> republicans had two things

to get done in order to set up a functioning congress, i electing speaker of the house, that took them almost a whole week, and 15 emulating tries before the elected kevin mccarthy speaker just barely, just after midnight on friday night. that was item one. the second item on their short list, it went quickly. tonight, on a party line vote, republicans in the house voted for the rules by which they will run the house, now that they're in charge. this is rules for how bills get to the floor, how they are voted, on how they are amended, and so on. you've likely heard by now mccarthy had to agree to lots of rules changes in order to get this speaker's job. those rules changes are now in effect because of the vote

tonight. mccarthy had to agree, for example, to a rule that allows anyone number of congress to call for a vote that could oust him as speaker. that once received a lot of attention because it sounds very dramatic, right? snap vote at any moment to replace him. honestly, it could end up being very dramatic, hard-line republicans decide they are lucky in chaos and want to use that new rule to get them some more chaos because it makes them, i don't know, entertained. honestly, though, i think this one is likely to be more of a paper tied route than a real threat. i say that because congress has operated on this exact rule before. actually, it operated under this rule for decades. the house got along just fine with that rule in place. you never know, things are only unprecedented until they happen, but, we will see. i think that changed besides the attention it's had, it might face -- up the line in terms of real things to worry about, there's

also the republican agreement to cap all federal spending at levels set two years ago. this could conceivably have big consequences for the federal budget, and therefore for the operations of the u.s. government, including the military. that is only if they hold themselves to it. the spending tap arrangement is a handshake deal, not a binding rule. there is nothing holding republicans to actually following that rule. again, that's one to watch, but they could eat their way out of it, if they wanted to. changes like those ones received a lot of attention so far. there's another provision in this deal, though, i think is asleep, or that i think is worth more notice than it has received so far. that is the provision as part of a new rules package the republicans are agreeing to, which would create a committee to investigate what they call the weaponization of the federal government. this is a committee expected to be chaired by trump republican jim jordan.

the republicans claim this committee would have the power to oversee, not just the justice department and the fbi, the way they are usually overseen by congress, they claim this committee lent by jim jordan would have to oversee ongoing criminal investigations being conducted by the justice department. ongoing criminal investigations, like, say, the ongoing criminal investigations into the january 6th attack, or the incremental investigations into former president donald trump. one member of congress says he should be considered on a spot in this committee, trump -- republican whose phone was seized by the justice department as part of their investigation into the january 6th attack. this one, as i say, was a sleeper. if republicans do go through with this committee to try to create a new system of oversight of the justice department that includes their ongoing criminal investigations,

i mean, we can't expect the justice department wouldn't just roll over and go along with that. we could expect the justice department would, presumably, go to court if need be to protect their investigations. what would happen then? i mean, what would happen a few branches of our government went to war over active criminal investigations into a former president that could put him in prison. what if it gets left to the pro trump conservative super majority of the supreme court to settle that conflict? the supreme co>> as i said, rule will see how it pans out in terms of which pose the most serious threats to regular order and normal small d democratic governments. this effort to try to get members of congress into the criminal justice system, in a specific way, that is, by my bet, really the one to watch. lots more to get to tonight. stay with us. t. stay with us

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work we learned that the special grand jury in fulton county, georgia, has finished its work. this is a special grand jury empaneled eight months ago, last may, to review evidence and hear testimony about the efforts to pressure elections officials in the state of georgia and to falsify the election results in georgia after the 2020 presidential election. as i said, special grand jury has been at work for eight months. what they were working toward was not a set of indictments or any sort of other public facing

action, or action taken in court we could all witness. but they were working towards over those eight months was a report, a report to the fulton county prosecutor, va, summarizing their findings in terms of the evidence and recommending to her whether or not they believe criminal charges should be filed against anyone based on what they learned about the behavior that took place in georgia right after the election. we don't yet know that report will be made public, the judge overseeing the special grand jury notes in his order dissolving the panel today, the special grand jury wants its report to be made public. the final decision will be made by that judge, they've had a hearing on that issue two weeks from tomorrow. while the report has not yet been made public, and we don't know at what level or on what timeframe it will be made public, fulton county district attorney fani willis and her office, they have the report themselves right now, and

there's no reason they can't act on the special grand jury's recommendations to them now. dea fani willis is free to act on those recommendations regardless of what we, the public, can see now or in the future in terms of the special grand jury's report, whether she will take those recommendations to a regular grand jury to seek indictment has yet to be seen, if she does, that whether such an indictment will include former president donald trump, which would make history, because no u.s. president or former president has ever before been charged with a crime that remains to be seen. we do know it's in the dea's hands now. joining us now, michael more, a former u.s. attorney for the middle district of georgia. mr. moore, i appreciate you being here tonight. thank you for being here. >> pleasure to be with you, thank you, rachel. >> let me just ask if i explained that correctly, a special grand jury, the aim of their investigation over these past eight months has been the report that they have submitted as of today, their work is done, dissolved as an entity, and

those jurors will go home. >> that's exactly right. remember, this grand jury had no authority to issue an indictment, even if the dea had asked for one. that was a chance for her to use the grand jury process a little different than what we typically do in the state grand juries in georgia, it allowed her to ease the grand jury process to subpoena witnesses, subpoena evidence to get folks on the record, witnesses who might be reluctant to come in and testify, to use the subpoena power to get their testimony, to investigate the case more fully. you just don't see these cases very often. that's what really separates federal grand juries you have inherently investigated powers with the state grand jury systems. now, she will make a decision whether or not she thinks there's sufficient evidence, and whether or not the special grand jury found probable cause for her to move forward and ask a criminal grand jury to find probable cause if she seeks and indictment against trump or somebody else. >> in terms of what we, the public, are going to see about this process, i was a little

confused today trying to figure out if there was any relationship between the decision about how much of the special grand jury's report might be made public, and funny willis's decision as to whether now she's going to bring any indictments. is that two different tracks that don't have anything to do with each other, or is there a relationship between those two considerations? >> they are unique and separate tracks. the district to tierney, by a large, acts as a counsel to the grand jury. it's likely she and her staff wrote this the. port we know what senate. you're right -- she decided to do that. the idea with the grand jury is the process is secret, and that's because people who ultimately are not charged if she makes a decision not to charge, it doesn't ruin the rest of their life because there's record of something they may or might not have done, or said in a public report somewhere. the idea of the report coming out is something the judge will have to decide even though there's a special grand jury recommending that. he will make a decision whether

or not that's appropriate this time. it's unusual because, in georgia, typically, investigative reports, this type of information does not become public because we have an open records act. one of those exceptions to having open records is they don't go in criminal prosecution. if she is going to lead for the grand jury, that be one reason he keeps the record sealed for sometime, that also helps her. she's got a little bit of a double edged sword here, and that is she might want the report out for political cover, and at the same time, she might make a decision not to exactly follow the recommendations of the special grand jury. if she makes that decision, she wouldn't want to have to answer for her choice versus what the special grand jury had recommended after their eight months or so of work. >> in terms of waiting for a decision from fani willis, though, doesn't sound like anything happening in court is going to constrain her in terms of her timeframe. she's going to make her decision in her office now as to whether or not she thinks an indictment is appropriate,

given these recommendations, given everything else her office knows about the evidence here. she is free to do that on her own timeframe, right? bring the statute of limitations concerned, she could act at any point, yes? >> she's been free. if you wanted to call in a grand jury tomorrow, she could do it. she's been free all along. she's never had to use the special purpose grand jury to get an indictment. she could run this right through the regular criminal process, go into a criminal grand jury, and ask them to issue an indictment. what she did as she gathered more information. she could read the report, she could decide if they already have the indictments drafted that she wanted even before this report came out. she is under no obligation this time to wait. if in the regular course of business, the criminal grand jury's is meeting, if she decides to present an indictment and sandwich trump in between a carjacker and a drug dealer, whatever she wants to, do she could do. that gradually would make a decision whether or not there is probable cause to move forward. this is just the beginning of a normal criminal process.

so much of this has been abnormal, so much about that administration was abnormal. this is the beginning of what would be a routine criminal process. prosecutor looks at his arc her case, makes a decision on whether or not they're going to present evidence to a grand jury. they can move forward to a trial. that is really where we are right now. we're at the start of the race. this is not -- we are not near the finish line. >> michael moore, former u.s. attorney for the middle district of georgia. i know that today is an all hands on deck, tonight is all hands on deck holiday in georgia. thank you for your time, tonight, i appreciated, particularly tonight. >> great pleasure to be with you, thank you. >> thank you. more news ahead, stay with us. ahead, stay with us. and it could strike at any time. think you're not at risk? wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. everyone remembers the moment they heard, “you have cancer.” how their world stopped... ...and when they found a way to face it.

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also, don't take advice from people who don't know what they're talking about. realtor.com to each their home. >> when attorney general merrick garland just before thanksgiving appointed a special counsel to oversee federal criminal investigations, related to former president donald trump, one of the first things garland did was, excuse me, i think special counsel jack smith did, was issue subpoenas to election officials in states where trump tried to overturn the 2020 election results. the subpoenas appeared to be aimed at trump's fake electors scheme, the scheme by which they had people signed forged documents, pretending trump had won those states, even though he didn't. one special counsel jack smith finishes his investigation and makes a decision on charges, if any, we will find out whether there's going to be any federal criminal consequences for the fake electors themselves, for

the people who signed those forged papers in seven states around the country. federal charges aren't the only possibility here. we know, for example, the fake electors from georgia have been targets of the fulton county district attorney's investigation. now that her special grand jury wrapped up its work today, we may soon find out whether district attorney fani willis will pursue indictments under georgia's state criminal law against those fake electors in that state. of the seven states at which these slates of fake electors were put forward, georgia had been the only one, the only state where we knew of an active state level criminal investigation into what the electors did. it had been the only one, until now. it got kind of lost amidst the drama of the chaotic house speaker votes late last week, but the attorney general and the state of michigan quietly made some big news. she announced on friday her

office, the michigan state attorney generals office is reopening its criminal investigation into the michigan thick trump electors. dana nessel announced a year ago her office had started an investigation into the fake electors. she believed crimes had been committed, she also said, at the same time, she was going to refer the case to federal prosecutors because she saw what the fake electors in her state did as part of a multi state conspiracy that would be better handled by the feds. that announcement from attorney general nestle was a year ago. now, a year later, she said she's done waiting for the defense to act. now that it's released its report about news about the fake electors scheme, the attorney general says she's not going to wait any longer, she's going to reopen her state investigation into michigan state electors. she said she doesn't know what the federal justice department plans to do with the evidence or office referred to them, but, quote, there's just clear

evidence to such charges against those 16 false electors in our state. nessel,. , watch the space. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪

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we go, one thing to keep an eye on in the news this week, the justice department has already achieved convictions on seditious conspiracy related to january 6th. that's a very hard conviction to get, historically, but they got in the oath keepers, case and there is now more people facing those same charges, namely members of the proud boys. their trial is expected to start, tomorrow in federal court in d. c., but we've just