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i'm katy tur. the midterms did not go so well, for the gop, instead of a red wave, it was a trickle, one that could look more like a single drip if the pressure on george santos wins out. stay tuned on him for a moment. why did republicans don't so poorly? candidate quality was surely in play. denying the election was not exactly a winning strategy. and showing some controversy fatigue. all of the trump daum weighed the party down. but one of the biggest reasons republicans massively underperformed was arguably abortion. the overturning of roe v. wade, a gop dream for decades, was more of a nightmare for the general election. the party paid the price. instead of backing away from what was proven to be a wildly unpopular position, house republicans are running right toward it. today, the first two votes, speaker kevin mccarthy will bring to the floor will be on abortion.

the first, protecting so-called pregnancy centers, and the second, protecting babies born alive after late pregnancy abortions. we'll explain both of those bills in a moment. and we'll also try to explain why the party is doing this to themselves, when even some of their own call it tone-deaf, here is republican from south carolina nancy mace who represents a swing district, with andrea mitchell a moment ago. >> one of my frustrations is what are we doing to protect women who have been raped? what are we doing to protect girls who are victims of incest? there is another story a couple of weeks ago, there was a young woman who had to travel from louisiana all the way to new york, because she had a fetus that had no -- and it put her own health and life in danger if she carried it toe term. i would like to be substantive and common ground that brings all of these viewpoints together, because the vast majority of americans, 85% of them, republicans and democrats

alike, they're not on the fringes of the far left or the far right on this issue. >> well, some republicans argue abortion is what actually galvanized the votes against them, we have a test case, another one in virginia, this week, a state senate special election, where abortion was front and center. and we just got the results. so give you everything you need to know on this, let us bring in our panel, nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. political contributor jake sherman. and "washington post" national political reporter caroline kitschener. ali, the two bills brought to the floor in about two hours, what are they? >> yes, katy, when you talk about speaking to the right-ward flank of the anti-abortion movement, that's what these bills do, though i have had several reproductive rights advocates point out to me this is not an outright ban on abortion. that is something that had been

talked about over the course of the final months of last year. that's not where republicans are going first. instead, they're voting on these two specific bills, i can pull up for you some of the finer points of them on the screen. the first is to condemn attacks on so-called crisis pregnancy centers. these are places that are often known for disinformation around pregnancy and abortion. but it also, in the second bill, is a born alive bill, effectively saying that health care practitioners in the words of the people who wrote this bill, need to exercise skill, scare, and diligence to preserve the life and health of a child and it also penalizes the intention killing of a born alive child, but infant side of course, is already a crime in the united states. the words that we're not talking about here, but are actually at the crux of this bill, katy, is the idea of late-term abortions, which represent about 1% of abortions nationally, and that's anything that happens after 21 weeks, and it is really important to underscore that not

only are these kinds of abortions rare, but they're also done in cases where the mother's life is in danger, or when the child itself is not viable, and cannot survive outside the womb. so that is the important thing to remember here, as republicans move on this. and the other piece of it, too, of course is that just because republicans can pass this today, even against the wishes of some of their more moderate members, it's going nowhere in the senate. >> so jake, you heard nancy mace there representing a swing district saying this is tone deaf, that the majority of americans on both sides are much more in the middle on this issue. why are these bills, these bills that are not catering towards getting more republicans into the house, in the next election cycle, why are these two bills being brought to the floor first? >> the house republican conference katy, is not in the middle of the country it's to the right of the country. it is more than center right. it's farther right than center right. it is a very conservative by and

large conference, filled with people who believe in these policy priorities. there's no question about that. but there is growing and more vocal moderate pocket in the conference made up of people like nancy mace, who represents a purple charleston, south carolina, anchor district, and brian fitzpatrick who represents suburban philadelphia, and in new york, kind of the majority makers in the house republican conference, i'm not sure where they fall in this bill, but still, that is a, they are representing many of these folks, not mace, but many of these folks are representing districts that joe biden won. and won handily in some cases. so the immediate concern for house republicans is not, and i'm not saying this in a, this is just the reality of how the leadership thinks, the leadership is trying to satisfy the members that are hurt in congress and they tried to grow their base, if they tried to

grow their base, they would be in favor of a whole host of priorities over the last 15 years that they've been against. that's not the immediate political concern for them. the immediate political concern is satisfying people who are already in congress. >> all right, so caroline, remind us again, if we are going to looking toward the next election, because two years is not a long time, remind us again how the galvanizing abortions would across the country in 2022 and what it might mean for 2024, we'll put up the exit polls from the last election as we talk. >> it is hugely galvanizing. i think it surprised a lot of people, and there were a lot of people who were not surprised, because this is an issue where the vast majority of americans are supportive of abortion rights, so we saw really across the country in kentucky, in michigan, any time that abortion was directly on the ballot, people came out in droves to

support abortion rights. and you know, i will say, kentucky, you know, that is one of the most anti-abortion states in the country. still, we saw a triumph for abortion rights. so i think that sent a really clear message to, you know, so a lot of these republicans, you know, we should be a little wary of this kind of legislation, and you know, we should think about how it is going to be received by the voter base. >> so the idea that this might, i don't know, become less of an issue over time, as we get farther away from the decision, we had the special elections that indicated where things were going in 2022, there's another special election that is going on, or just happened in virginia, the official final, final, final results where the state will come out and say here's what they are, will be friday, when all of the provisional ballots are in, but this race is over, aaron rouse has declared victory and kevin adams a republican running on a

15-week abortion ban has conceded this race, another indication that the electorate in the special elections, swing districts, aren't happy with the idea of limiting abortion to the extremes. >> well, abortion was hugely important in that virginia state senate race because governor youngkin has come out and said definitively, he wants to pursue a 15-week abortion ban. republicans control the house in virginia so that seat in the, right now, democrat-controlled senate was key. and the candidate, the democratic candidate made it really clear that this was the vote that was going to matter if they wanted to protect abortion rights in virginia. and voters did just that. and in doing that, they protected abortion rights not just for people in virginia, but far beyond virginia, because virginia, like many other states, has become a real destination for those seeking abortions from states where the

procedure is now banned. >> jake, you know i'm going to start with this, say it to me santos, let's talk about george santos, he has a lot of pressure that is building on him, the republicans in his home district, in long island, say they don't want him around any longer, i will play a sound bite from their news conference a little bit earlier today. >> there's no place in the nassau county republican committee, nor should he serve in public service, nor as an elected official. he's not welcome here at republican headquarters, for meetings or at any of our events. as i said, he's disgraced the house of representatives, and we do not consider him one of our congress people. today, on behalf of the nassau county republican committee, i am calling for his immediate resignation. >> it can't get much stronger than that. calling for his immediate resignation. he says he is not going to

resign. kevin mccarthy has said he is not going to put him on important committees and he might be a national security threat if he is put on the more important ones. there is an ethics committee investigation going on, it was hand-delivered by two democrats, new york democrats, to his office, his money guy impersonated kevin mccarthy's chief of staff to get money for his campaign, why am i not hearing kevin mccarthy say you got to go, you got to resign, we don't want you here? >> so they're saying to him, santos, to resign, and he said it is off to work we go, listen, here's the thing, katy, this -- i don't know why mccarthy is not calling on him to resign but let me take a step back here, santos is going to, doesn't have any immediate pressure, doesn't have any immediate hinge point that would force him out. if he's indicted, key stay in congress. he can't serve on committees. but he can stay in congress. the county republican party calling on him to resign is not

going to force him out. now, listen, i've seen many, many occasions in which the leadership has pushed people out of congress, john boehner used to say, you know, is there anything else coming out and if there is, either, you know, you resign or i'm going to push you out. now, expelling someone from the house is very different, it is a high threshold, a two-thirds majority to get somebody out of the house, but there is no immediate action mechanism at the moment. i don't think the situation is going to be tenable for mccarthy because it is all he is being asked about. i mean i caught up with him after a meeting a little while ago and every question was about santos. he told me that he hadn't seen the resignation demand from the nassau county republican party, but would look into it. to be fair, he was in a meeting for multiple hours before that. but he's seen it now. so we will be having to ask him again this afternoon. >> i was just listening, mccarthy was just asked about

this, and in my ear, mccarthy said he would follow the constitution. >> the constitution doesn't say anything about this. i hate to tell you. the constitution, as we all know, says nothing about whether a speaker should push out a member of congress if he's engaged in alleged criminal activity. >> i was just looking to see if i had it, i do have it on my email, follow the constitution it's not his place he says to say if santos serves. that's up to new york voters. all right, jake sherman, ali vitali, caroline kichener, thank for starting us off. joining me is democratic congressman from california ro khanna, we'll talk about it right now, because i will ask you, congressman, what do you think about this whole george santos affair? >> i think the country is tired of hearing about george santos. i think they're wondering how is he still there, and any other job, if you lie on your resume

repeatedly, you'd be fired. >> about everything. >> about everything. i mean look, americans have a tradition of sometimes exaggeration and that's the great gatsby story, and this is not exaggeration, this is blatant fabrication about every part of his resume and biography and it's embarrassing to congress, that already there is such low approval. i just hope that he would do the decent thing and resign or that we can agree that he shouldn't be lying to the american people and serving in congress. >> mccarthy has said he will not see him on the more sensitive committees, and correct me if i'm wrong on that, but i believe he's not going to put him on intelligence, or military affairs, veterans affairs, but he will still seat him on some committees, how do you feel about serving potentially along george santos on a committee? >> well, i'm on the house armed services committee so it's a relief that he won't be there but i just don't see how you

seat him on committees, and i think i agree with jake who was on earlier, this is going to be a problem with mccarthy, instead of getting to talk about his agenda and what he wants to, do he will be repeatedly asked about george santos, and i think he's going to realize that it's better to cut ties and move on. >> i want to ask you about immigration, another bill that the republicans are going to bring up in the house, it does feel like an interesting moment. you have house republicans who jake pointed out are on the more conservative side, and i imagine anything on immigration will be on the more conservative side, and you have bipartisan senators to the border, over the past couple of day, kyrsten sinema, and john cornyn, chris coons, and many others, and they are going out there and saying, we need to fix what is happening at the border, we can't just talk about it all the time, we've got to actually do something about it, they sound like they want to put forward something along the lines of a comprehensive immigration reform bill,

something the white house would certainly like to see, do you see any way for an agreement in the senate, with the white house, to get through the republicans in the house of representatives? >> it is uphill but the only person who has ever put forward a plan is president biden. and you know, i don't agree with every part of it, but at least he is trying to tackle the problem. this is common sense. what we need is more funding for border security. and more funding for processing asylum claims. and being able to process asylum. and i wish we could get that agreement. i think it would be progress if the senators were willing to talk about with president biden. look, for anyone else who has criticized the border, i have not seen a single plan other than president biden's. >> we were talking about immigration yesterday through the lens of the economy and i had cnbc's steve liesman on to talk about how this country needs more immigration, because our birth rate is declining, we need, the country needs more

people to shore up social security and medicare, there are, i think, 8.0-something million people out of work and 10.9 million jobs that are still left open, so even if all of those people were put to work, there would still be about 2 million jobs left over. what is the, why is this argument not being made economically speaking in congress to try to convince your colleagues that something should be done? >> i couldn't agree with you more. i mean our comparative advantage is there are a line of people who want to come to america and not go to china. that's what has made us such a strong economy. let me be specific. we've talked in the past about bringing manufacturing back, intel is creating two plants in ohio, if you talk to the intel ceo, he will tell you that we need to get some of the talent from taiwan and other parts of the world where the manufacturing has been. yes, we need to invest here, and in engineering and developing our work force, but that's going to take years. and in the meantime, we need the

expertise, and so hamstringing some of the immigration is hurting our ability to be a manufacturing superpower, it is hurting blue collar jobs in america, and i think we have to make the economic argument. >> you know what is not hurting, political messaging, campaign message can. posturing. ro khanna, thanks for joining us. appreciate your time, sir. >> thank you. the faa says it fixed the bug that grounded almost all of the flights out there this morning. what they're now saying about what happened. and about whether it can happen again. stay tuned for that. president biden has finally commented on the classified documents found in his old office. what he said about what those records contain. plus, the quote atmospheric river that has been drowning california has more water in store for the state. where the storms are going next and what officials are saying about who should evacuate right now. now.

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you can only control the controllable and this is out of our control. >> we've been planning this trip for two months, three months, so you know, we have airbnbs books, rental cars book and that is a nightmare trying to get a refund from everything, you know. >> i have to make some decisions about changing the flight for the next few days because i won't be able to get in until, to re-route in a different city, and miss the connection, so i'm trying to arrange how to probably fly tomorrow. >> not so fun at the airports today. the senate commerce committee says it will be looking into what caused that massive faa outage this morning. normal air traffic has been slowly resuming, after an overnight computer outage grounded all departing flights

nationwide. but the domino effect could take days to resolve, even though things are moving in the right direction. according to flight aware, more than 8,000 flights within to and out of the u.s. were delayed as of this hour. more than 2,000 flights have been canceled. the faa says its notice to air missions, notam system, which contains essential information to workers involved in flight operation, had quote failed. the fbi says there is no evidence the outage was the result of a cyber attack. transportation secretary pete buttigieg told andrea mitchell they are still trying to figure out exactly what went wrong. joining me is retired boeing 777 captain and flying magazine's cribbing editor les apend. les, thanks so much for being here. can you figure out what happened, this notam system, what is that? >> yes, the notam system is a very small portion of the, of a flight, but it is basically, as

you say, it is important to air missions, so pilots are required to read these and review them and a lot of times it is just detailed information, but it covers everything from equipment outages at airports, like approach light systems, maybe a runway being operative, and taxiways being constructed, and it also, it covers air space. problems in certain air spaces so on and so forth. usually, these are already out and they have an effective date, and so it is very rare, it is usually a planned event, so it is very rare that it becomes an event that all of a sudden happened immediately. we're not talking about a bruce willis die-hard movie where pilots are flying a signal to the ground without their control. this was not a real jeopardy event for anybody that was in

the air at that time. >> is this a system that needed to be updated? is it just kind of old now and glitched? >> well, notoms have been around since the beginning of time, at least when i started as a kid, 100 years ago -- [ laughter ]. >> and disseminated different ways. but you know, now, it is all computer-based, so i think what needs to be updated is some redundancy in the computer system. it really smells to me like a computer glitch. so you know, in this particular case, what is the backup to it? and that's i what should be worked on. how did this happen. >> you prevent it by having a better backup in the future. what about the resumption of flights. we see that things are getting back online now. but we've seen a lot of cancellations, a lot of delays, how disruptive will this be and for how long? >> yeah, i mean we feel for these folks. and honestly, as pilots, we're in the same issue, because we miss our connections for other

flights. so you know, it becomes a domino effect. it is going to take 24 hours since the shutdown, at least, to reschedule people and rebook them on airplanes. remember the airlines are getting much more efficient and they're booking a lot of their seats, they're very full and it is hard to find an empty seat to re-route people oftentimes depending where they're going but i feel for these folks, and it is just another one of the events in a choreography of events that have occurred. this one happens to be the air traffic control system. >> how do you feel about traveling right now? i mean since the pandemic, there's been this surge in interest to people to get out of their space, and to travel, which is overloaded the airlines, which don't have enough pilots, they've got issues with staffing levels, planes i feel like need to be serviced more often, it's not so great going to an airport nowadays. how do you feel about flying?

>> it is kind of a color going to an airport. it used to be a fun event, but this sort of deteriorated if you would over time. but the change in our pattern, my wife and i, we have the ability to have what we call nonrevenue passes, but we don't use them, because there's a chance of us getting, of fining an open seat is very rare, so we buy tickets like everybody else these days, and hope for the best. i mean i've got some insight but when it comes to a trip, i'm going to schedule like everybody else, and hope all works out, that the weather cooperates, air traffic control cooperates, and i'm going to get on it, and we still have a very, very safe system that the majority of days, it works very well. >> les, thank you very much. i appreciate your expertise. ten days after his cardiac arrest on the field, buffalo bills player damar ham lynn is headed home. the buffalo bills announced

today that the 24-year-old was discharged from buffalo medical center after he underwent a series of tests. when asked about when he would return, the bills head coach sean mcdermott says his health comes first and he will, quote, come back when he feels ready, and he will be welcomed back. the national weather service is calling it the most impressive storm since january, 2005. what is happening in california and why isn't it stopping? meteorologist bill karins is here to explain. first up though, what the department of justice new about the classified documents found in one of president biden's former offices, and when they knew about it. ew about it. kn vere eczema. it doesn't care if you have a date, a day off, or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema with steroid-free cibinqo. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults

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nbc news has learned attorney general merrick garland has enough information to decide how to proceed on the classified documents found at president joe biden's former office. according to two senior law enforcement officials, u.s. attorney john laush has been reviewing the documents and how they got to the president's former office for weeks.

joining us is justice and legal correspondent ken dilanian, one of the questions, why are we finaling about it now? >> that is a question for the white house, because the justice department was not in a position to disclose a review of this kind, they do their work in secret and this was handed to john laush, a trump appointee, a trump holdover, in order to preserve the appearance of independence, and we along with the help of the fbi have been investigating the circumstances of this disclosure, or this inadvertent unauthorized presence of classified documents at the penn biden center for several weeks, and they have presented attorney general merrick garland with preliminary findings. and the question for garland is whether he needs to appoint a special counsel to conduct a full criminal investigation and whether he will say no, there is not a criminal case here and i am told there will be a decision

presumably fairly soon and from everything we're seeing, unless there is some huge thing that we're missing, this doesn't appear to be a criminal matter. there is a law obviously against removing classified information and holding it in an authorized place, and that law requires knowing removal, criminal intent, and obviously, there is no evidence of that that we've seen in public, and the white house is saying this was a mistake, and they reported it immediately. >> ken dilanian, thank you very much. let's bring in former fbi general counsel and formatter senior member of the mueller probe andrew weissmann and an msnbc legal analyst. obviously we only know as much as we know right now, which is that these were a limited number of documents per white house lawyers, or president biden's lawyers, and that when they found them, they alerted the justice department immediately and the review, according to senior law enforcement officers, as ken laid out, has been going on for weeks. so ken talked about needing intent in order to make this criminal. what might the justice department be looking for to figure out intent here, if they want to do that?

>> what they need to show is that president biden, when these documents were either removed from the white house, or when they were kept at the penn biden center, it was something that president biden knew about, and that he was aware of their content. this is something that we've been looking at the circumstances of mar-a-lago, we've been asking the same question, and you know, if you notice, most people are saying it's hard to imagine trump necessarily knew at the time that his documents were taken to mar-a-lago, but there's a lot of evidence that he was aware of the existence of the documents and retained them knowingly with intent during the 18 months when they were at mar-a-lago. so that's the problem. and i agree completely with ken, lodge and intent is the critical

factor here. but i do think there is a political question which katy, you started with, which is although d.o.j. could not and should not have talked about this publicly without the consent of the white house, the real question i still have is why did the white house sit on this for so long, and it seems like that was really a political calculation on their part, and that is something that, you know, we're supposed to be objective, that is a totally valid question, as to why they sat on this, from a few days before the midterm elections, to now, because they were free to talk about it, now, that's not a crime. and you know, i really put on my sort of former prosecutor hat, but it is a political question, as to why they did that, and that to me shows really questionable judgment within the white house, as to keeping a secret. >> and republicans are using that to say that this isn't fair, and considering how much

attention was given to donald trump and the classified documents that lead up to the midterms, there are views that the biden administration should have been more transparent. politically speaking as well, does this make this more difficult, even though legally speaking, there are fine line, politically speaking, do it make it make it harder to bring a case against donald trump for the classified documents at mar-a-lago? >> for jack smith, i don't think he will be thinking that. we, when i was at nyu, we did a huge review of all known prior d.o.j. cases for retention of classified documents, and you know, the requirement really distinguishes cases which have involved knowledge and intent, and ones where there's construction of justice, where there's dissemination of the documents to third parties, and i think here, although there might be a political hit that is

taken, i don't think that is going to affect what jack smith does here. you know, in this case, it is very similar to a case that involved roberto gonzalez, where the department of justice declined prosecution, where he had taken documents, a limited set, from the white house, when he was become can the attorney general, and there was an investigation into that, and there was a declaration. this seems, although again we don't know, but it seems quite similar. >> ultimately this is going to be up to merrick garland to decide, so there will be a recommendation from the special counsel but this will be merrick garland's decision. does politics factor into his decision? >> i doubt it. i really think, there, i do take him at his word that he is going to make this based on the facts and the law and d.o.j. precedent. and i think here, the d.o.j. precedent is, from what we can tell from the outside facts, is very clear, that anybody in

former president trump's situation, who is anybody else, they would be treated by having the case go forward, and again, with president biden, we don't know enough yet, obviously the facts change, this could be a difference in a case, but it looks to me like we're unlikely to see the sort of knowledge and intent that makes something a criminal case, let alone the kind of obstructive conduct that we've seen by the former president, former president trump. >> andrew weissmann, always good to have you on stories like this. appreciate all of your expertise, my friend. >> you're welcome. coming up, disgraced crypto king sam bankman-fried for another interview with a reporter and whether sbf actually understands what is happening to him. does he feel any remorse? first up, california cannot get a break. the next atmospheric river is about to hit. we'll tell you where it is going

next. tell you where it is going next

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more rain is headed to california, millions are again under flood watches. the unrelenting storms have killed at least 17 people. governor newsom warns the death toll though is probably higher. in sacramento, heavy snow blocked roads including interstate 80, which closed due to hazardous conditions. in central california, flood waters poured into neighborhood streets. strong winds toppled trees. and knocked out power to thousands. in palm springs, the fire department performed a swiftwater rescue, to save a person trapped in their flooded car. in ventura county, it was 42 people who were stranded on a diminishing island of slightly higher ground, after two local rivers overflowed. you can see them climbing a tree, or a telephone pole to get

out. and san miguel, a break in the rain has allowed rescue crews to resume their search for a missing 5-year-old who was swept out of his mother's arms when their car was overtaken in a flash flood on monday. with more on how the storm is affecting california, where it's going next, and for how long, let's bring in nbc news meteorologist bill karins, it is a heart-breaking story, and it pains me to even talk about it. tell us what californians need to know. how do they keep themselves safe and stay out of pocks that get them in the mid -- positions that get them out of the middle of flash flooding. >> there are over 100 searchers for that boy right now, and the story, ripped out of his mom's arms by the current and we need a miracle ending to that story. you never know. maybe we'll get it. it is a parade of stories. i think someone was counting up the storms and i think it is up to six in the last three week, the areas that have been hardest

hit have been central california, santa cruz area, santa barbara, l.a. even, that last storm two days ago. this storm today is mostly northern california. a lot of the rivers have recovered. yesterday, we had scattered rain. the heavier rains today will be in northern california. so far, so good. and we're down to 5 million people with flood watches. at one point it peaked a couple of days ago at 30 million people. this is an improvement. a couple of rivers that are in flood stage with minor flooding going on but nothing dramatic. we haven't heard of any water rescues today. i haven't heard about any new homes being flooded or any landslides or debris flows. so that's good. it is still possible though. especially north of san francisco. it is called the northern bay area, from napa to fort bragg, eureka, the area of concern as heavy rain continues on and off throughout the night tonight. areas in yellow, one inch to three inches. this area did not get the heavy rain two days ago. so they can deal with one to three inches. i don't think we will see anything crazy, as far as like dramatic, you know, pictures of damage, or you know, a lot of

more, more deaths or anything like that. and probably the additional threat will be saturday in our parade of storms. then it looks like one more after that, and this one may be more southern california, as we head into monday. finally, after that, we get a break. so here is how it all pans out for the rest of the country. it does lack like tomorrow, a chance of some severe weather, alabama and georgia, this is from the storm that hit california, two days ago. and then as we head through your weekend forecast, really no issues east of the rockies, and it is all eyes next on the next storm coming into california on saturday. i would say about 95% of the damage and destruction has already occurred in california. just a little bit left. >> bill karins, bill, thank you very much for that. and coming up next, lawyers for ftx say they recovered a ton of money. we're going to tell you how much next. as sam bankman-fried, the ftx founder, grants another

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in bankruptcy court today, lawyers for beleaguered cryptocurrency giant ftx say they have recovered more than $5

billion, with a "b," dollars worth of liquid asset, the claim comes as prosecutors announced plans to seize at least half a billion in company assets as part of their investigation into the ftx founder sam bankman-fried. he has pleaded not guilty to criminal charges of wire fraud and conspiracy to committee money laundering. he is currently under house arrest at his parents' home in california, where he let a reporter in this week from "puck", the reporter writes quote, sbf's voice was startingly unaffected and he offered me something to drink as if we were there for a play date as if nothing of consequence had recently transpired. teddy, thanks for being with us. why did he let you in? >> look, i think at a basic level, anybody in the cross-hairs of regulators or prosecutors of the media, people

want to be understood, right? and i think sam bankman-fried thinks that kind of the classic crisis play book of say nothing, you know, be adverse to all risk, wait for punishment, i think he thinks it is too cautious and ultimately, he is willing to, you know, fight the pr war day to day, even if that means incurring some legal risk along the way. >> you write that two-thirds of the view was off the record, one-third on the record, and you talk about his loneliness and his isolation and you found a hint of mistyrus confidence that he could somehow wiggle his way out of his current redigment and spoke carefully and repentantly when on the record and loosely and almost gamely when off it. can you elaborate on that for us? >> sure, so i think sam is staring down a 90 month period where understandably he will be a bit stir crazy, seven to nine

month, the trial is not until october, and ultimately, he is going to be suffering from a lot of isolation, and i mean not really being able to do anything about it, so what he is doing right mow is trying to look forward, he is doing a lot of writing about what happened over the last couple of months, but not to like relitigate, you know this happened with ftx, this happened with ftx, he is a strategist fundamentally, and i'm not saying as a complement, he thinks very strategically about next step, and ultimately he wants to win, and i think he thinks there is a way in which he can win, so when i say gamely, i mean that, you know, he understands that he's in the, he will need a few mer cals the next nine months before this trial kicks off and he is thinking about how do i win wednesday? how do i win thursday? and in a very strategist-ish gamely sort of way. >> that's a lot of money, for a lot of people, lost a lot of

money for a lot of people and not just celebrities but regular people. is he showing remorse? >> you know, i do think that he understands that there are real people who lost money. what i would say, katy, though, it is not his preoccupation. he doesn't talk about that a lot. you know, he said that you know, he screwed up, he wanted to use more colorful expletive legal language before congress on that point, but he is also very keenly aware that he is being observed right now. every twitter feed he tosses, every interview he grants, he is under the microscope, so i do think he is contrite, but i also think he is a bit perform tively contrite where he knows that he's supposed to be contrite, so we can say here's sam bankman-fried being contrite. so to a certain extent, it is a politician when they screw up,

do they feel like they screwed up, yes, but they want you to know that they feel like that they screwed up. >> performative is the word for it. >> teddy, thank you very much. >> and the article is interesting. it is on "puck" if you don't already know. teddy, thank you. that will do it for me today. hallie jackson picks our coverage next. today. hallie jackson picks our coverage next. this is the planning effect from fidelity. ben isn't worried about retirement because his plan is backed by the team at fidelity. a group of investment professionals manages ben's ira for him, analyzing market conditions

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