which the way, has knocked over trees on to houses, on to cars. it's the landslides. it's the mud slides, the soil, more vulnerable because of the wildfires that have already hit here, and so we're only a few miles away from where a toddler was killed one week ago today from a tree falling on his house while he was inside of it, and then there's still that 5-year-old in paso robles who has not been found yet. >> it's an awful situation. thank you for the reporting. we're just learning here in washington that president biden, according to the white house, spoke with the california governor, governor newsom, about all of these storms. the white house says that the governor thanked the president for his swift action on the emergency declaration, among other things. marisa, thank you. that does it for this hour of us here on msnbc. find us on twitter @hallie on msnbc and, of course, as always over on our streaming channel for nbc news, nbc news now, and every week night at 5:00 eastern for show number two. nicole picks it up with

"deadline" right now. ♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. the gop is entrenched in another civil war today, this one intrastate, not intrachamber, but gop versus gop all the same. in one corner the talented mr. ripley of kevin mccarthy's house republican conference, and in the other his hometown republican detractors who say he should resign for telling, quote, lie after lie. the second political thrilla in manila political-style duel isn't at all how the republicans planned to roll out their new grip on power, but it was happens when a party lowers the bar to subterranean levels. here are the fireworks from new york republicans today. >> george santos' campaign last year was a campaign of deceit, lies, fabrication. he's not welcome here at

republican headquarters for meetings or at any of our events. as i said, he's disgraced the house of representatives, and we do not consider him one of our congresspeople. today on behalf of the nassau county republican committee, i am calling for his immediate resignation. >> he lied to me personally when he sought my endorsement, and while i'm offended and disgusted at his deceit, my true concern is for the residents of the third congressional district. there's absolutely no way mr. santos can be an effective member of congress and represent the people who elected him. the longer he remains in office, the longer the residents of the third congressional district will suffer. mr. santos, haven't you done enough harm? >> new york republicans called santos' admission to a stunning resume of lies and four investigations into possible campaign finance violations a, quote, stain on congress and on

his own district. they called him shameless in his inability to serve of and his unwillingness to answer questions. the chair of the new york state republican party has since that press conference joined in supporting their decision to request santos' resignation because, quote, it is clear that he cannot be an effective representative, and it would be in the best interest of the taxpayers to have new leadership. new for his part, santos is proving them right. here he was moments after that. >> will you step down? >> guys, i will not. guys, you've got to give us space. >> give us a little space here. >> this way. >> new york republicans are calling you a disgrace. you will not resign? >> excuse me. >> excuse us. >> now one might think it would be too embarrassing and insult aring for elected house leaders to ignore this debacle from the start, but kevin mccarthy did just that. he happily let santos be a deciding vote in the quest for

the speakership, but it's now impossible to ignore because santos literally cannot govern. the new york republicans are now refusing to work with santos or talk to him at all until he resigns. they are instead directing all calls that come in to santos' district to fellow new york republican congressman anthony desposito who said, today, quote, when public servants deceive and mislead those they are tasked with serving, they are no longer fit to work for the people. for this betrayal of the public's trust, i call on congressman george santos to resign, and that's where we begin today with some of our most favorite friends. they are all msnbc contributors. jake sherman, it has an echo visually to anthony weiner's early days of the scandal where he was running away from my

friend dana bash in the halls of congress, getting into closing elevator doors. these usually end the same way, with a resignation. is there a clock or a bet on how long that will take? >> no. there's no action for an enforcing mechanism. who else among us hasn't made up literally everything in our backgrounds, but a few things here. number one, this is -- from my reporting, this is going to relate to you what the leadership and people around the leadership had said. number one, it's a very slim majority and -- they will lose this seat in a special election. it will be a referendum on santos, and it's already a democratic-leaning district that -- that only went republican because of lee zeldin's overperformance on long island. that's number one. number two, you know, he's not been charged. that's what they say. he's been charged with anything, so they don't -- they don't have the desire to boot him out.

now a few things that are worth considering here. number one, politically, this is a massive distraction. every single question, every single day kevin mccarthy will be asked about this without fail. every press conference he has. every time people see him in the hallway, he will be asked about this, and -- and we'll have to see what his pain threshold toe to speak is when it comes to these questions. number two, santos seems to be getting frustrated with people standing outside of his door. well, get used to it, because he's going have that every day until he's, i don't know, for the foreseeable future. so as long as the pain tolerance is high enough, and i don't mean to laugh at the charges because they are quite serious. i mean, most republicans when you talk to them will concede that this is embarrassing, and he will -- there will probably be some legal action against him. remember, one other thing. if he is indicted by the department of justice for sure but maybe even a foreign

indictment who knows, he has to be, according to the republicans' rules kicked off of the committees. there is some truth to the fact that he won't really be effective. he'll be on low-level committees, not the "a" level committees that most people desire. no one wants to work with him. no one wants to have anything to do with him, so he'll just be here, you know, in body and name only, so to speak, and that's going to be his congressional career, at least for the foreseeable future. >> let me show our viewers what you're describing. my colleague did just what you said. he had questions for kevin mccarthy about this today. let me show you that. >> the nassau county gop called on him to resign today. does that affect your thinking at all? what do you intend to do about congressman santos? >> i try to stick by the constitution. the voters elected him to serve of. if there is a concern they have to go through the ethics. let it move through that, but right now the voters have a

voice on the decision, not what people pick and choose. so he'll continue to serve >> are you going to take any action against him at this point? are any of these allegations? >> what are the charges against him? >> you know in, america today you're innocent until proven guilty. >> i mean, jake, that's a little dishonest. the constitution is happy that he feels differently about it today than he did on january 6th, but i -- i mean, stephen king was removed from committee. wasn't charged with a crime, bottom of the gutter, a race and a snake. not the standard. i love your opinion. would this kind of person remain in the democratic caucus? >> well, the constitution has nothing to do with this, nicole. the constitution doesn't make to whether a peter leader should remove or has the ability to remove people from their committees or call for their resignation. i remember these, because i'm growing older by the day. >> we all are.

>> when john boehner was speaker, and there were situations like this, what he would do is bring the member into his office and say either you leave on your own volition, or i will have you removed. that's not -- that's a very far cry from where we are today. i guess i would say a few things. the media climate is different and the whole host of other things are different. i think donald trump and his ability to stay on the stage for as long as he did probably contributed to this, but, no, this has -- steve king was kicked off of committees. people are kicked off committees all the time, but it even goes beyond committees. i mean, what the new york republicans are saying, nassau county republicans and many elected officials, you won an election based on a fraud set of circumstances. you claimed to be somebody that is effectively you are not. everything you've ever told anybody is a lie. so, you know, this is a morality

argument, and morality doesn't really have much of a place in politics at this moment. >> well. >> and, no, this person would not stay in the democratic caucus, i don't believe. i think that this would be a different circumstance if it were the democratic caucus to answer that question. >> thank you. charlie, this is a morality question today, but these are the investigations that we know about. the u.s. attorney's office is investigating his finances. it's based on reporting from cbs and the "new york times." the district attorney in nassau county is investigating numerous incentive is. the new york a.g. is investigating issues raised. brazil prosecutors intend to revive fraud charges against mr. santos. there's a new complaint demanding that f.e.c. investigate and a new complaint demand that the ethics committee investigate. that's the one recovered yesterday that was delivered by dan goldman, and there is reporting that suggests that all of his campaign finances were

raised fraudulently. this is criminal as well, violates federal campaign finance laws, from cnbc's reporting. wealthy donors received calls and e-mails from a man who said he was dan mier, mccarthy's chief of staff during the 2022 election cycle. his name was actually sam mele and worked for santos and raised money for his campaign according to one donor who contributed to santos' campaign. this is not a morality problem. this could soon become an alleged criminal question. >> well, i think kevin mccarthy being very much on brand made it clear he's not concerned about the morality. what he's concerned about is the math, and as jake pointed out the math is four. four-feet majority. if this was a 40-vote majority or a 30-vote majority he would be gone but kevin mccarthy needs his vote and needs it for the next two years so he won't do

anything about it, and he's going to let him twist in the wind. maybe they hope there's legal action, but even if there are indictments and they remove him from committees he'll still be part that have majority, and as jake pointed out, i mean, what's crucial about this and why republicans are going to be so reluctant is that if there is a special election between now and 2024, that seat will flip back to the democrats, so part of their strategy is going to be to have him hang on as long as possible, but this is a distraction and a legitimate distraction. it's almost as if republicans are in disarray. the comments you played from the nassau county republicans was really quite extraordinary coming from -- you know, from the republican party. you know, perhaps at some point they might reflect on the fact that this is what happens when you built a cult around a lying sociopath and allow it to be filled with lying sociopaths, but you have to say that they -- that they -- they went the whole

way, so this is going to be a distraction for kevin mccarthy but also it's going to be a teaching moment about what the rules of politics are and what kevin mccarthy is willing to do and what he is willing to say and what he is willing to tolerate in order to hold on to power. >> jake, we've been the air 12 minutes. since we've been on the air a third republican from a neighboring district has called on santos to resign. kevin mccarthy has three members in his own conference now at odds with santos remaining in the body. how does he -- he didn't prove particularly quick or deft at stamping out intra-party war. let me show you what some of his members had to say about him last week. harsh brutal attacks against him. >> you're innocent until proven guilty in this country. >> he's been elected by his folks and he'll have to deal with his issues with the ethics

committee, and until that time we're going to treat him like every other member elected in the last election. >> do you think george santos should resign from congress? >> obviously there's some conversations. >> i think there's legitimate concerns raised about how he conducted himself during the campaign fanned it was up to me i wouldn't seat the guy on any committees until we have a fuller understanding, until the ethics committee has a fuller understanding exactly of what he did. >> those were house republicans today, jake. interestingly, scalise, he said there are conversations being had right now. >> i don't know of any conversations that they have had. they all had conversations that sounded a little bit like this. you need to get a good lawyer. that's what i've been told, and it shouldn't be some clown lawyer. it should be a good lawyer. that's what high reporting has

shown from a bunch of different angles notice republican leadership, but i will say this though. the ethics committee moves slowly. >> yeah. >> and it's -- it's evenly split between republicans and democrats, so you need republicans on the committee to advance anything, just like in a democratic majority, you need democrats to advance anything, so if you're just counting on the ethics committee to take some sort of action, ethics commit -- by the way, it's kind of -- it's kind of nonsense because the ethics committee doesn't get involved usually when federal or local prosecutors or the fbi, whatever, are investigating something, so to say, well, we hope the ethics committee is -- we support the ethics committee process. that's just -- that's just, you know -- that's just a kick of the can down the road or punt, whatever you want to say, because the ethics committee is in the going to come out tomorrow and say this guy is a fraud and shouldn't be here anymore and wouldn't say that anymore and if you want to expel him from the body you need a two-thirds majority. the reality is unless he's indicted and the ftx

investigating is even, you know, less useful because they will take ten years and then they will just slap him on the wrist with a $50 fine so the real action-forcing mechanism here is the department of justice or local prosecutors bringing -- charging him with something. until then, as long as he has a threshold for pain and embarrassment, he will be able to stay in this body when adding one more thing, nicole. i do think all of these republicans that are coming out against him in new york are doing so with the tacit okay from the leadership in order to preserve their own standing back home. i don't think the leadership has any problem with people calling on him to resign at all. it's not like kevin mccarthy has a specific or steve scalise or tom emer has a specific affinity for this guys, george santos, because he's been here five minutes but i think they are okay with him being thrown under the bus swiftly and mccarthy not having any specific fingerprints

ton. >> what jake is describing is political gangrene. it's so sick that it can't pump anything fresh or real. they are all treating us, the voters, they all work for us, like we're too f'ing stupid to know what the game is. the game is kevin mccarthy got by the whisker on his chin to be speaker and he needed george santos' vote. they won't kick him out. they all know he's a big fat liar and likely a criminal and they will keep him. again, if you're looking for a silver lining in this story, you have to look for days, but i guess the one is that the voters are -- find this conduct and the extremism in the republican party repugnant, so repugnant that since we've been on the air, 12 minutes in, another new york state republican has attacked george santos and called on him to resign. >> well, yes, nicole. that's such an anti-description, political gangrene, but i also want to say that i'm kind of

skeptical of the kind of -- of the critique of the nassau republican party. i mean, i think this is a good thing but it's kind of late. i think they knew who this guy was. bad faith politics at the heart of all of this. just as you described mccarthy, but it's also, you know, it throws me back to james madison. as political as madison was, as genius as he was, he understood the importance of virtue for the functioning of democracy, public virtue. what does it mean that it's in complete abayance here? it's how desperate and how deprived and bereft our politics happen to be. >> yeah. charlie, there's something deeply depressing about this story, and i think it is always news when there's a tell in terms of how low the republican

party has sunk. i think it's why the coverage last week was so riveting. there was nothing -- jake's reporting and garrett's reporting and everyone's reporting revealed that there was nothing that wasn't on the table, and i joked at the beginning of the week that he would give away a kidney or a lung. that probably wasn't so far-fetch. there was nothing that couldn't be brought into the negotiation, and i think when we -- when we look at where we've gone astray and look at copycat crimes against democracy, a conversation you and i have been having all week, charlie. we're exporting this low bar, and it should alarm everybody. >> no, it ought to alarm everybody, and to -- to eddie's point, you know, the -- the whole notion that you can have a democracy without virtue and character would have been considered crazy by the founding fathers. remember kevin mccarthy said on the very first day of the republican house they would read the constitution word for word,

but at the heart that have constitution is the belief that you have values, and one of the things the republican party and the republican base, republican voters and leaders have decided over the last few years is that character does not matter. all that matters is how you vote, so you have trump after "access hollywood." you have the republican party rallying around herschel walker after all of the allegations of his fraud, lies, forced abortions and abuse so it's not that shocking that they would be reluctant to move on george santos to. jake's point there's kind of a shuffle going on here where everybody is wink, wink, wink. i'm going to go on record denouncing this guy, but the -- the cynical reality is that -- that their denunciations don't do anything. as long as he's there. he votes and they keep their four-vote majority, but, again, this is what happens when you erode this fundamental concept that -- that eddie was talking

about, that james maddison thought was essential to the american idea, is that you had to have vittertouts men. you had to have a system that was built on the idea of character and telling the truth. you abandon that and imagine that everything is going to go along unchanged would have been considered, you know, unpardonbly naive by the founding fathers that republicans like kevin mccarthy claim to revere so much. >> i don't think they could find them on, you know, game board if they had to. eddie, i want to read you the allegations in the fec complaint, because i think it's very likely that we could all convene many months -- i mean, i take jake's point about how long these things take, but he could be in a whole lot of trouble. the advice to hire a real lawyer and not a sort of trump's lawyers who retain lawyers kind of lawyers. this is what's in the fec.

he serves as a straw donor for unknowns persons. the santos campaign routinely deliberately filed inaccurate disclosure reports and santos illegally used campaign funds to pay for personal expenses including rent payments, in blatant violation of law. there is a brazenness of the alleged illegality and the alleged corruption of santos personally and is on theos politically and the santos campaign that, again, is -- is news because it tells us how they think they have to act when no one is watching. >> right, or when -- when some people are watching. >> right. >> they just don't care. one of the things that's very clear is this guy is not a decent guy, not a decent dude. he lies through his teeth, and this -- this -- he is exposed to criminal jeopardy, that's clear. the question is whether or not the politics of capitol hill

will provide him with cover, will give him armor. obviously there are folks who want to throw him under the bus, but i want to be clear. he is an avatar in some ways, an extreme representation of the problem on the hill, the problem with the republican party. i see it, and this is -- this may be hyperbole, nicole. there's a continuum between kevin mccarthy's will for power and the brazenness of george santos. they are connected and behind both of them is donald trump. >> i think that's well put. >> jake, i want to give you the last word here. on the other side of this, congressman dan goldman who i think the country first saw and got to know as a national political figure in impeachment one is having a bit of a moment. he delivered the ethics complaint to santos' office. any sense about the democratic strategy for highlighting the complete lack of ethics and

perhaps criminality and corruption? >> well, i will say it's a break and probably a welcome break to be honest with you from the that digs that members of congress don't file ethics complaints against their colleagues. it used to go through another process. i don't need to get into it here, but this is a break of a truce -- an unofficial truce that's been in place between the two parties for the last 20 years. listen, you know, the republicans gut the office of congressional ethics, a separate committee, that used to kick ethics up to the committee. that was a reform after the last wave of republican corruption in the mid-2000, the jack abramoff stuff and all of that. goldman will have a bit of a member, all congress. he's somebody involved this oversight. this is the only the beginning what have we'll see from goldman over the next i would say two years and probably into the

future. >> that's a great predigs. jake sherman, thanks very much for starting us off. charlie and eddie, stick around with me. when we come back, we're learning about another set of classified documents that have been found by aides of president joe biden, this time in a different location than the office where they found the first ones. the reporter covering the story for us is coming up with that information. plus, house republicans getting to work today with a slew of legislative bills, red meat aimed right at their base. two of those bills target abortion access. it doesn't have the support even of all republicans. more intra-party fighting. however, one gop lawmaker did describe it as a tone deaf move by her party. and later in the program, a closer look at what exactly the new congressional blitz against law enforcement will look like. how the nation's security is taking a back burner to political retribution. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. house" contins

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there's an update late today to a story nbc has been covering all week. after fewer than one dozen documents with classified markings were found at an office used by now president joe biden in the days following his vice presidency, an exhaustive search was undertaken, and it has turned up more. nbc news is reporting this. quote, aides discovered at least one additional batch of classified documents in a location separate from the washington office president biden used after leaving the obama administration. that's according to a person familiar with the matter. the classification level, the number and precise location of

the additional documents is at the moment not immediately clear. let's bring in nbc news correspondent carol lee on next conclusive reporting of hers. charlie seite and eddie glide are back with us. carol eswhat, the latest in your reporting. >> reporter: since we had the revelations of the initial bachie documents at the president's washington, d.c. office came to slight were there other documents, and what we know from our own reporting that there are, that the president's aides have discovered additional documents in a location that's different from that office that he set up after he left the vice presidency here in washington, and now there's a number of locations where the president, you know, has lived and worked and conducted business. he has two houses in delaware. there's -- there was a time when some documents were in storage after he left the vice presidency, and so what we also know is that aides to the president have been going

through documents, boxes of material during the time when he was vice president of what else might be out there and what the scope of this problem could be presumably with the goal being with what they did the initial documents that they found which was to turn them over to the national archives and then obviously the justice department would add those to the documents that they have been reviewing, so we know now that there is more than one batch of classified documents that's out there in multiple locations and that there has been an effort to try to get their arms around what the scope of this problem might be. >> carol, your reporting makes clear that the reap we know this is from biden's team doing this search for them. what does that search look like? what stage of that search are they in, and at this point it's also clear from your excellent reporting that they are the ones delivering the documents to the national archives and doj, that there's no obstruction. there's no concern at the

national archives, the parallels to the trump criminal investigation end with the existence of the classified materials themselves based on what we now know. >> yeah, based on what we know, nicole, this is not a situation where the president and his lawyers are having a back and forth, an argument, and there's resistance in terms of turning things over. the white house has said the president himself has said that him and his team are fully cooperating with this review and that they want to essentially try to move past this. the president said that he hopes that this is something that would be over sooner rather than later, and so what our understanding of the dynamic is now is that they found these documents. there's still this open question though of why the president's lawyers were closing out his office in washington, d.c. that just seems like something that you would have a lower level staffer do, but nonetheless, the white house said the president's lawyers found these documents while clearing out his office in

washington, turned them over. what we now know is that that's not the only group of documents that the president's team has discovered and so they are also trying to figure out what else is out there. we don't know whether that search is ongoing and continues, when it began, but presumably once they figured this out, that made this initial discovery on november 2nd, there would have been discussed about whether there were things elsewhere. where the president might have kept some documents and then an effort to try to figure out if there's anything else out there. >> charlie, carl's reporting is meticulous and careful. the biden lawyers are trying to get their arms around this and return these documents to the rightful owner. the white house even acknowledges that it understands -- i spoke to a senior official yesterday who said, of course, this is a story, but the parallels do end after the existence of classified documents. there's no obstruction of justice under way. there's no refusal to turn

things over. but on earth, too, none of that matters. >> that is right, and people need to try to hold these two ideas in your head at the same time, number one, that these are very, very different cases. there are a lot of distinctions between the biden documents and the obstruction of justice that donald trump engaged in, but also you need to hold the other idea in your head that this is not helpful to the biden white house. this is a -- that is blow to the prosecution, and it's going to be an ongoing political headache for joe biden because we know that trump world and the republicans, you know, flourish in the -- in the -- you know, in the age what have aboutism, and this hands them a what aboutism on a silver matter, and they will exploit this because one thing we've learned is nuance is something that gets lost. distinction can be blown over in this modern media age, so this is an unfortunate development

for the biden white house and as an unfortunate development i think for people who are thinking that the prosecution of donald trump -- for what happened at mar-a-lago was a slam dunk. i mean, there's other prosecutions out there, but, again, we need to remember that this is not earth one where life is fair and decisions are made calmly and reasonably with all of these distinctions. we live on earth 2.0, and we'll continue to do so. >> i don't know where to put this occurrence, eddie, but i'll share it with you. i don't spend a lot of time on social media but i peek at it before i come on the air, and i saw that karl rove was trending, and so i clicked on it, and he's trending, my understanding, is that he's trending because he took sort of a tim russert style white poured and he wrote the ways that the biden documents and the trump documents were different. he tried to inject a little bit of the facts and reason from earth one into his existence,

squarely on earth two and i think he's trending because this isn't always welcome over there, but this larger distinction where, you know, it's carol's craft to have just facts and be accurate. it's a normal american president's instincts to return things they shouldn't have to the national archives, burks again the craftsmanship involved in the pursuit of fact and the responsibility of a normal president of either party when classified materials are find doesn't exist over there on earth two which is, of course, where a lot of this is swirling around. what is your thoughts as this story developed? >> first of all, journalists need to do what they do. the president needs to be as trans parent and forthright as possible, to -- to offer the relevant information, the relevant -- do what they need to do to try to get this story behind them and to also understand that folks on earth two or 2.0 or whatever we want

to dal are going to make hay -- they are going do what they do, and there's no way he's going to be able to change their mind. there's no way that he can blunt whatever they are going to do. see, this is the part that we have to make. at some point we have to stop giving these folks oxygen. they are going do what they do, so what he needs to be is to be as trans parent as possible. journalists need to do what they need to do, and whatever they are doing over there in trump world 2.0, lyme disease be mindful of it and if it's stupid let's call it stupid. if it's unethical call it unethical. if it's bad faith call it bad faith and let's move on. >> perfectly put. carol lee, for your reporting and joining us to talk to us about it. charlie and eddie, thanks for starting me off today. as our friend and colleague rachel maddow says, watch what they do, not what they say, and what some house republicans are doing today is try to further restrict reproductive freedom

and access the in america. the anti-abortion bills they are putting forward in this new congress just this afternoon. we'll bring you all of that after a quick break. don't go anywhere. of that after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ■ if you're happy and you know it, clap your hands. ■ ■if you're happy and you know it, ride your bike. ■ ■ if you're happy and you know it, then your face will surely show it. ■ if you're happy and you know it, smile big and bright. ■ thousands of kids just like me, are happy every day. and it's all because of generous people like you, who support shriners hospitals for children every month. all you have to do is call the number on your screen or go online to loveshriners.org right now with your monthly gift. because of people like you shriners hospitals for children is able to make an everyday miracle happen for kids like me. ■ if you're happy and you know it, dance around. ■

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for abortion and the other would how health care practitioners handle infants born alive after the procedure. the born alive bill is expected to pass today even though democrats insist a 2002 law guarantees the legal rights of any infant under any circumstance. such legislation will never pass through the senate which is, of course, controlled by democrats in know small part because they efetively galvanized mid-term voters and how mid-term voters feel about this issue in the aftermath of the supreme court overturning "roe v. wade." donald trump himself, this is how bad is it, it's so bad that donald trump himself in the course of deflecting blame for a disappointing mid-term season for trump's republican party suggested that republicans lost votes because they, quote, poorly handled the issue of abortion. other republicans seem to show the sentiment. congressman nancy mace suggested yesterday that republicans have been tone deaf on the issue of

abortion saying bills meant for non-passage are a bad idea. here's your explanation of those comments earlier. >> we're talking about these messaging bills this week. i'm pro-life but i have many exceptions. this is an issue to take seriously, and if we're going to be seriously balancing the rights of women and protecting the right to life, the two are not mutually exclusive. this is probably not the way to start off the week. we should be looking at measures to make sure every woman has access to birth control. if you really want to get serious about this issue and reduce unwanted pregnancies, i've got entire counties in south carolina that don't have a single ob-gyn doctors. we need to make a difference in women's lives every single day across the country. >> joining me is my colleague and the president of naral pro-choice america. i'm so excited to talk to boast you. again, alli, when it comes from

me who cares but when it comes from a member of a right wing republican caucus, won't become a bill on planet one or two, we were talking about the two realities in which we live. they are purely political to prove a political point that's a giant electoral loser. what's going on? >> look, and any earth they hive on right now, nicole, this is a post-roe reality. we're a bit away from the 50th anniversary of the "roe v. wade" decision and we're in a landscape now than when that decision in the 1970s, so the fact that this is a messaging bill is important because it's also the place that states that are restricting abortion access with taking their cues from, that they have cover from republicans at the federal level who are trying to move on some of these issues. now, i've had some of my sources in reproductive rights advocacy groups say they are surprised that republicans aren't

necessarily starting with an outright full national ban on abortion. it's something that we heard floated by people like lindsey graham at the 15-week mark, just before the mid-term election, something that kevin mccarthy has spoken favorably about, so certainly that's one of the things that we'll be looking to in the future. that's not where they are starting, but where they are starting is important as they do try to stop pregnancy centers and then also at the fringe side of the abortion conversation focusing on late-term abortions. they are kag this a born alive bill, but really what they are talking about is fetuses who are viable after a period of gestation so really 21 to 24 weeks and after that, and at the center of this conversation is the fact that that's around 1% of abortions in this country, and really abortions that happen at that point are because there are fetal abnormalities or the life of the mother is in danger,

and so by starting here in this place it's really looking for in many ways almost a way of talking to a problem that exists in such a small and rare way in this country, but, again, this is where republicans are, and it makes sense why people like nancy mace are saying they are out of step because the rest of the country, the majority says, they support abortion in all or most cases. >> that's why you are so good at her job. the facts on what they are solving -- they are providing a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. >> yeah. >> and it's already the law of the land to -- if such a putter is a viable one. what do you make of nancy mace's very public break, not just with these bills, but with the strategy of messaging bills on abortion? what does that say to you? >> well, nancy mace, i mean, i hate to praise her because show's still terrible on most of these issues is probably the

most pragmatic house republican right now. i mean, she's just stating the obvious. the majority of americans are not with the gop on this, as was pointed out. it's a really obvious issue, and the fact that they are pulling these really, you know, as you said, bills that address problems that don't exist. that's the perfect explanation, and they are really calling back -- for folks who have been following the move.for a time they are calling back the most goofy and extremist tactics that got them on the fringes in some of the these really red states, late-term abortion, crisis pregnancy centers. these are really some of the most disinformation-laden attacks that have been used to confuse and confound americans on this issue, so they are being very strategic, but i think representative mace is making a really compelling arguments that frankly i don't think anyone in her party is going to listen to.

good for her, but knew all along they were going to go this route. i think an abortion ban is coming up next. >> i think that's right. i mean, these are the numbers that republicans can't walk away from, and they proved something that i've long believed which is that the only thing that trump does read is a poll. 67% of americans supported roe and it was overturned, 82% of americans support exceptions in the case of rape and almost 100% of the bans being floated out there, not all of them have passed, but a lot of the bans being floated, the messaging on republicans is, again, 67%, 80% plus, 90% of the people, the democrats know they can't further push this because they don't control. is it sort of knock yourself out, the public hates this stuff, or is this real fear that this is where they are heading? what's the democrats' strategy here? >> i've been watching democrats for the last year kind of run into this brick wall that they

are so limited at the federal level because they can't pass any kind of federal codification. this is true when the democrats had the house and senate. i've been covering reproductive access for a long time, basically since i got to nbc, and this is what democrats and reproductive rights and access groups have been worried about, the fact that roe would fall. dobbs was the decision to do it. they had been preparing at the state level for this, but at the federal level everyone keeps saying, at least prior to the mid-terms, it was win this at the state level and shore it up there, because in congress they are not able to do anything. i do think that on the one and they think that republicans are showing the public who they are and what they will do with power, which is true. this is truly a republican priority in week one officially anyway. technically week two of this congress, and republicans, happy to put this out there. even in the last few minutes as they were passing this on the floor, republicans were cheering for having been able to do it, even if it's not going anywhere. again, they are out there with the message to the base.

on the other side of this, though, i've talked to several democratic lawmakers who are so afraid of this current moment because of what it means for women broadly across the country. the fact that this is dangerous for women who are trying to seek care, who are going to have to travel across state lines. we've heard from several of these states that have abortion access more readily available for women, that they are seeing an influx of people from states that have more restrictions in it, when it's texas or missouri or other states across the country, iowa. all of these states are now basically having women go across state lines so that they can access that care. look, democratic lawmakers that i talk to are afraid for women. i think, for example, the stories that we've heard shared in this building over the course of the last few minutes but also on the floor today, you had lawmakers, female lawmakers, sharing stories that they never thought that lawmakers, female lawmakers sharing stories they never thought they'd share publicly about their own experience with miscarriage, being forced to carry even

though they knew the pregnancy wasn't going to be viable because of the impact of state laws. you're seeing them become more boem bowlened because they thought this moment is so important in the larger battle of reproductive care. >> it's so important the universality the tragedy of a miscarriage or the hope of ivf. i'm going to sneak in a break but i'm going to ask our viewers to stick around. we'll be right back. stick arou. we'll be right back.

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we are back with ali vitally and min ae. what is the appropriate response? i know women are scared and there's access and there are women with the least resources and ability and access to do so. what is the best thing to do in this moment? >> so i think what democrats did tonight and i know ali was talking about strategy, and you're right it's challenging the on the federal level is first of all through a motion to recommit they unanimously supported the act tonight. that's the kind of legislation we're going to need democrats to move forward should we and we will take back the house during the 2024 summit. we also need to see more vigorous action in the states and we're excited about all the

state legislatures convening. there's going to be places where we can have some big wins. these are going to be local battles where congress is going to going to make sure they're clear where folks are and paint a clear picture about where republicans are getting further and further away from the american majority. >> that's interesting, and we should watch michigan to see the policy level what they put into place. are you working and hoping for that to be a policy labbratory. >> yes, and i also want to give credit when we're talking about policy laboratories to california. when gavin newsom has done and what happens when you have a trifecta a legislative body controlled by democrats they really advance some major

policy. they have a future of abortion counsel we're looking at. california has really been the testing ground for some of this. and i think we need to watch california, watch illinois. michigan is in a new condition. so looking forward to working with them and the governor to really see what we can pull off in michigan as well. >> there's so much reporting, i'm going to have both of you come back. but there's reporting they're on the ground there regional socioeconomic changes to where the access is, and actually, you know, the industry is impacted by all of it. it's so profound and so important. you're two of the most knowledgeable people on it. we'll continue to call on you. thank you for spending time with us today. when we come back, how house republicans are putting our nation's national security at risk for political gain. that story's after a quick break. don't go anywhere. k. don't go anywhere. we got this, babe. that means that your dreams are ours too. and our financial planning tools can help you reach them.

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the fbi right now is the gestapo. the fbi is the gestapo. >> this is some third world bull [ bleep ] right here. >> do i know the boxes are materially took from mar-a-lago, that they won't put things in those boxes to entrap him. >> how about them apples? hi, everybody. it's 5:00 in new york. the attacks from republicans and the trumpiest of trump allies following the fbi's court approved search for classified documents at mar-a-lago were swift, and they were numerous, too numerous to show here again. a stunning immediate blitz against law enforcement

officials and higher-ups from the supposed one time party of law and order attacks against an agency whose leader christopher wray was once chris christie's lawyer and was hand picked for his job by donald trump himself. now with the recent majority in the house republicans are putting all those hateful things into policy action. "the new york times" is reporting this, quote, a divided house voted on tuesday to launch a wide ranging investigation into federal law enforcement and national security agencies. as republicans promise to use their new power in congress to scrutinize what they said was a concerted effort by the government to silence and punish conservatives at all levels, from protesters at school board meetings to former president trump. set in the house republican sights, the fbi, the irs, and the intelligence community. but the subcommittee won't stop there. "the times" reports this, quote, the panel has such broad reach that it appeared positioned to

become a main instrument for republican tuesday go after the biden administration. potentially prompting showdowns over access to highly classified information and the details of criminal inquiries. democrats have labeled the panel a political stunt by the gfp, but this stunt could have serious consequences for our national security. "the washington post" reports this, quote, the broad resolution also explicitly authorizes the select committee to seek access to highly classified information provided by intelligence agencies to the house intelligence committee. members of that panel are often briefed on extremely sensitive information with contents that if widely shared could damage national security and endanger the lives of american intelligence officers and their assets. house republicans putting our country's security at risk for political purposes is where we begin again this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. "the new york times" congressional reporter luke

broadwater is here and also joining us andrew wiseman, former senior member robert mueller special counsel investigation. he's now an msnbc legal analyst. former fbi counter intelligence agent pete struck is here and mariland court is back. luke broadwater take me through this committee. when did they start, and what are they going to do? >> right, well, they're just getting staffed up right now. it's going to take them a little bit to get going. i would keep in mind jim jordan has been doing the beginnings of this investigation for some time in the minority on the house judiciary committee. what this new legislation does is empowers him to have a much broader and well-financed investigation into these matters. he's talking about having some same types of resources that the

january 6th committee did. if that's the case that could be up to 80 or so staffers and consultants who are working full time for two years on investigating what he calls the weaponization of the federal government. you know, democrats on the hill are very worried about this. some are comparing it to the mccarthy era, and they worry some people in federal government if they're scrutinized by this committee, you know, their e-mails could be obtained or text messages, and their lives could be turned upside down. so, you know, a lot remains to be seen what this committee will do with its first actions. obviously they've got to staff up before they can put out subpoenas, start hauling out witnesses, that sort of thing, but there's definitely a moment of high-tension surrounding this committee. >> was does it emanate from? i mean they've got the white house. nununez had his hands over

everything when he was still there. their guy ended up running over the intelligence community. donald trump was commander in chief unfortunately for most of us was top of the national security agencies, chris wray is fbi. what are they so peeved about? >> it's all written in the complaints. it's everything, you know, from they feel that conservative activists are discriminated against at school board meetings and at abortion clinics all the way up to donald trump. they feel that he was persecuted by the justice department when there was the search at mar-a-lago after he did not return classified documents for more than a year and a half. so anything that can be perceived as a slight or attack against conservatives could be within the purview of this committee to investigate the investigators who carried out those investigations. what i've heard from democrats

is this could have a chilling effect into investigations seeking to hold donald trump accountable. >> yeah, and i don't mean to belabor this point but i guess it's predicated on such absolutely blatant baloney. you know, bill barr was the star witness in the january 6th select committee saying it was all a lie. bill barr is the one that's been all over fox news. you almost have to beat him with a stick, he keeps showing up on the mar-a-lago there's nothing to charge trump. what facts do they think is the dispute? when i was in government most of the people were pretty conservative. what is the grand conspiracy in jim jordan's delusional mind? >> so i would say they've been actually pretty vague on the details of what this will be. you know, we asked jim jordan whether it would, you know, potentially extend to, you know,

the treatment of january 6th detainees at the jail, and he wouldn't really answer that question. the common theme here is a world view that republicans and conservatives are being discriminated against, that they are the victims, that donald trump's a victim, that rank and file republicans in government are victims and they're going to try to block any investigations into those people. you know, he says he has two dozen whistle blowers who have come forward from the fbi to tell him about bias in the fbi. we have yet to see any of these people or meet them. but this is the information he's starting to inuncover people within these law enforcement agencies are saying the agencies have bias against republicans. >> andrew wiseman in our coat of bill barr, we know at a factual level it's all bullshit.

they had a guy. they investigated the investigators for longer than robert mueller investigated the potential for coordination between donald trump's campaign and russia. his name was john durham and he found an embarrassing amount of jack squat. what do they think they're going to find that the highly supported durham probe didn't? >> well, first i think it's important to recognize that when you're inside the beltway and one of the two houses is -- switches and is not in power of the white house, this is really common. so people understood that when the house slipped there were going to be investigations, and to your point about what is the predication, there is none. this is a fixing expedition hoping to find a fish so that they can distract and use that to use any sort of evidence to say here is this is just actually the tip of the iceberg

of a grand conspiracy, and this is, unfortunately, i won't say normal, but this is a sort of standard practice, sort of accountability and then that mass as being an investigation. so i think that sort of, the sort of first point this sort of happens, and to your point, they may find some whispy pieces of evidence, but in terms of what it is they can complain about, you know, you have 30 people on right now who were in the department of justice at the fbi, in the national security apparatus, and that is not exactly a liberal bastion of people who are politically, you know, seeking to help, you know, the aocs of the world. this is generally a very

conservative group but they're also trained to put that aside and just deal with the facts. you know, i think pete and mary would tell you as i would tell you that people look for national security and criminal cases that merit attention and being pursued, and no one cares whether it's a democrat or republicans. it's just not -- it's not really relevant, but that is -- you know, that is something that is where there's a real rub between just the doj, fbi world and the rest of what goes on in washington which, unfortunately, is very political. so it remains to be seen as luke said exactly what happens. >> yeah, the fbi is now an extraordinarily sort of frontal combatant for this right wing, and that was under way under trump. trump was frustrated with him. i think bill barr writes in his

book or said some that he protected christopher wray when he was there. let me show you -- if they were serious, there is something that the far-right of the republican party could actually be productive in investigating and that is right-wing domestic violence extremism. let me show you christopher wray's testimony from march 2021 about a threat that is real and could use some congressional support. >> january 6th was not an isolated event. the problem of domestic terrorism has been metastasizing across the country for a long time now, and it's not going away anytime soon. in terms of domestic violent extremism, domestic terrorism, that number now has grown steadily on my watch, so i've -- we've increased the number of domestic terrorism investigations from around 1,000 or so when i got here to up to about 1,400 at the end of last

year to about 2,000 now. that's domestic terrorism overall. >> so, pete, i -- again, we'll see what the committee does, but this is what's happened at the fbi at the time the republican party has grown very suspicious of them. what do you think this is about? >> well, nicolle, i think you hit the exact point of it problem, look, i agree with everything andrew just said. i think the reality is for the fbi sitting there and listening getting ready for another round of partisan attacks it's certainly going to be better than what they experienced 20i7b 16 and 2020 because you don't have collaborating attorney generals and supplicate directors of national intelligence, but what it does is do is separate from congress' goal to help trump in this re-election, to prevent those members who are implicated themselves it has the side effect of encouraging right-wing violence. and not only is it going to

encourage that violence but discourage a lot of women in the fbi from really being eager to dive into it. are they going to investigate it? absolutely. are they going to do that in a fearless way? i have every expectation they will. all this propaganda we hear coming frut of jim jordan and the far-right is doing a lot more than just trying to protect trump. it's having a real impact on the ground and encouraging something i don't think they intended. i don't think that's the goal, but i do think that's the worst impact that's going to have. >> mary, i mentioned this yesterday. this is the threat environment under which all the agencies being targeted by jim jordan's new endeavor exist. cbs news reported on august 15th at the fbi and dhs warned of increased threats to law enforcement and government officials after the mar-a-lago search. "the washington post" reported on august 23rd that the irs launched a safety review after

right-wing threats. axios reported on august 28th that the national archives was hit with threats to their work force after the trump search and subsequent attacks. i am judicious about not amplifying the right-wing disinformation. but i showed you mr. -- and the other people there because this is what they're broadcasting to audiences of millions, and the very real consequence is that these federal agencies -- i don't know how many people had heard of the national archives -- are now men and women who don't make a ton of money going to work under the threat of violence. that is new. that is a republican product. it was put into motion by donald trump, but this committee by jim jordan puts it on steroids. >> yeah, and this goes directly to pete's point, which is that the type of comments that get made by the republicans who are backing this committee, by representative jordan and others

who -- who some of the clips you showed at the top of the hour who have talked about the weaponization of the department of justice and those things, all of that type of commentary, all that rhetoric immediately makes its way into the online extremist spaces, and it is viewed as legitimizing their grievances and legitimizing them and taking action that may be not online, it may be in the real world. it's the type of threats that cause people to leave positions as election officials and school board members and county councilmembers and people running for election back in 2021. and, you know, i think pete's warning is very, very real because one of the things i think is so different in these last couple of years even during the trump administration is we more and more and more have members -- elected members of congress at the highest levelsf our government and elected officials in some states that

are also propounding disinformation and being tribal, right? everything is an us versus them. and so, you know, i'm worried about some of the details of what is going to be subpoenaed, and i think we're going to see showdowns and we're going to see some of the things -- if it goes as extreme as what this resolution authorizes, if the committee starts really trying to get into ongoing criminal investigations, ongoing intelligence matters that are beyond their legislative scope, that are maybe veering into things that arend the judiciary things like law enforcement or using their subpoena power for harassment and abuse, i'm worried about all of that, but i'm also very worried about the real world political violence that is likely to result every time this committee takes some sort of step and makes statements along the lines of

weaponization and those kind of things. so i think we're -- i think that folks really need to look into their conscience and think about the impact that they're having on the american public, and is that really what they were elected to congress to do? >> you know, luke, i'm thinking as i listen to andrew and pete and mary about about one of the first things you did how really brought to my attention how interassociated house members had become with the kind of groups that were in and around january 6th. i think you had a story of ten appearances, contact associations where proud boys or oath keepers had provided security or matt gaetz and others had appeared at events with them. can you sort of assess whether they're on the record saying whether or not domestic violence extremist groups or the right-wing militias are going to

be exempt from their examination of criminal scrutiny? are they going to recuse their conflict of interest? how are they going to deal with these groups that according to christopher wray make up the biggest bucket of domestic violence extremism? >> it's a good question, nicolle. one thing we did on january 6th we took a look at all the connections between certain right-wing member of congress and certain known far-right militia groups or extremist groups. but given the fact that some members of congress are wanted as witnesses for questioning in various january 6th related investigations, it does raise the question about whether those members can serve on this committee. can they possibly be trying to investigate the very investigations that may want them for questioning or may want to look at their cellphones or may want to read their e-mails or that sort of thing. and so some people on the democratic side of the aisle are

very concerned that they will try to interfere with those very investigations. i think hakeem jeffries coined -- coined the phrase today that it was -- sorry, i forgot. it's like an insurrection -- >> i've got it here. hang on. i've got it somewhere, too. i think he called it the insurrection committee. jerry nadler called the destroy select subcommittee. >> it does raise the question as you point out if the fbi is investigating domestic violence extremist groups, right-wing militias, and this sort of thing shouldn't that be their primary mission or one of their key missions not battling with congress over -- over this other show that they're trying to do? so, you know, how much of a distraction will it be for the fbi and doj? how many subpoenas will they get? how many times will they be demanded to appear before this

committee, that all remains to be seen but i think it's definitely a concern on capitol hill. i've talked to several staffers and members who believe this is the biggest concern that's happening on the hill right now. >> yeah, and i mean i want to press all of you on what this looks like. i remember rob rosenstein's staff saying he spent most of his days on capitol hill trying to keep jim jordan and these i think there's a technical term for this faction was clowns but impeaching rob rosenstein when he sat atop the justice department. so this is more -- i want to ask you what this is really ability. much more ahead with the panel as house republicans plan to take their investigations -- if we can even call them that -- to the fringiest far-right places. later in the program the justice department is looking for another victory this time in the seditious conspiracy trial of proud boys for their role in the january 6th insurrection. we'll get an early look what to expect from the case the

prosecution presents with opening statements set to begin tomorrow, and a fierce battle between ukrainian soldiers and russian mercenaries. that's where the russians are in this in a town in eastern ukraine as vladimir putin shakes up his military leadership. we'll check in with our good friend. "deadline white house" continues of a quick break. don't go anywhere. e house" conts of a quick break don't go anywhere. and vanguard retirement tools and advice can help you get there. that's the value of ownership. (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. can help you get there. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. ♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you.

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donald trump. >> when luke broadwater mentions something we go find it. and he called the committee on insurrection protection. to luke's point, to mary's comments, where does this -- what is the natural extension of this? what do you expect them to ask for and where will lines be drawn by doj? >> great question. so to add to what mary and pete have been saying which is about the sort of immediate national security concern, i have a concern related to law enforcement and how subpoenas can be used to undermine ongoing investigations related to january 6th and up to and including the former president. and just to be clear the house has an interest not just in doing this to undermine an investigation to the former president, but as you pointed out also to protect many of the members who have -- who may be

complicit and have their own legal jeopardy, and what they can do there is not -- it's not just a question of subpoenaing jack smith and the attorney general because that's where you will see a sort of battle royale. that is where doj will draw a line. they're not going to talk about ongoing investigations, and they're not going to turn over material. i'd be -- i'd be just shocked if that happened given the institutional interests that everyone will be protecting. regardless of what party affiliation. but with the -- what congress can do is they can subpoena witnesses. so they can call -- they can pursue any and all evidence. they can report to the january 6th committee, and they can try to dirty up and bloody any and all witnesses and essentially get an advanced review and make them try to, you know, force them to testify and make them

look as bad as possible in advance of any trial. and i think that's going to -- a lot of defense lawyers are going to be busy. a lot of witnesses are going to be figuring out what to do if they can assert the fifth amendment and just sort of avoid that whole process, but i am confident that is a route jim jordan is going to go down, which is to essentially put on the sort of anti-january 6th committee evidence and create that show. and look, they did that with benghazi when there also was nothing, so they certainly can do that here, and just to give you an example of that of something that would be real is as wonderful as cassidy hutchinson's testimony was, we saw it, they didn't start out that way. if you read the report, her first appearance at the committee, which she did say things that were not true, which she admits, so that's the kind of thing you can imagine this

sort of anti-january 6th committee saying we're going to call her and point out all the places where we see holes in the evidence where people have lied in the past and try and essentially hurt the criminal investigation in this forum for it's very difficult to protect witnesses and have them not be smeared publicly by politicians who are not seeking to use the process just to get to the truth. >> yeah, i mean i don't want to give him the credit for taking the time to read the report, but i had the same concern in one of the more explosive sections that came out of the holiday was about gena haspel threatening to leave. and i wonder, pete, what your concerns are about how they'll seek to politicize the intelligence community and their products. >> i think, nicolle, they're absolutely going to try. again, i agree with andrew. i look at it as the committee

using it as both a sword and a shield. also a sword to try and attack law enforcement, to try to attack the committee and ultimately try and attack joe biden. i think, look, we've got about a year and a half until the election, about 18 months between now and the election of 2024. i anticipate you're going to see scirmishes where they're going to try to slow sand into the prosecution and slow things down. i think if they're halfway smart and i think they are smart when it comes to political issues like this to slowly build to a crescendo like we saw in benghazi with drips appearing. that by the time we hit the spring and summer of 2024 you have showdowns, whether that is people being held in contempt and impeached whether that's the attorney general, the director of the fbi, the director of national intelligence but designed to have the maximum circus in the summer and fall of 2024 as americans are trying to

make up their mind who they're going to vote for president for the next administration. it's going to be a mess. the hope is you're going to have a good democratic administration in a way that will push back that you mentioned rob rosenstein trying to protect his next. i think you'll see a lot more bravery and association of the doj and white house and that's going to quickly end up in the courts. again, a year and a half seems like a long time. when it comes to the district court and the circuit court of appeals and likely the supreme court, a year and a half is not that likely at all. >> mary, i think we witnessed under four years of trump that so much of what protects our national security evidence and agencies are norms, traditions, believing in the virtue of our policy makers and leaders. the curtain has been pulled and we know that wasn't the case. we know it wasn't donald trump and the people around him and isn't jim jordan and the people on this committee. what can be done to protect our

national security agencies in this new reality? >> well, i think it's going to be hard because the authority of the congress to engage in oversight in furtherance of his constitutional powers is broad. and a lot of what has restrained congresses in the past has been the sense of norms that you mentioned. so it's not necessarily beyond their legislative authority although i think in individual cases you could argue that it is. but, you know, it wouldn't always be beyond their authority to try to make an inquiry into an ongoing criminal case or into some intelligence collection. but historically congress has avoided that because they understand and appreciate the sensitivity of criminal investigations, ongoing criminal investigations. they understand how that could impact the ability of the department of justice to prosecute where a prosecution is warranted, and they restrain themselves, and it's very, very

rare for the government, for example, to turn over information about an ongoing criminal investigation or to turn over intelligence products to committees other than the intelligence committees who deal with that on a regular basis, who are very -- themselves very protective of our national security and our national security secrets. and so, you know, those norms if representative jordan and his other republican committee members are not going to abide by those the five democrat appointed committee members are not going to have the votes to outweigh that. and that's where i think we will end up seeing showdowns in court if the committee does the kind of things they seem to be suggesting that they're going to do. and i think that it will come to the fact of having to take some of these issues to court. now, courts don't like that. they want these issues to be worked out in what they call the hurly-burly of the negotiations,

but we'll see what happens because that's become more and more difficult when you see the use of these authorities for political purposes. >> it is a privilege to have all four of you in one place. thank you for starting us off this hour on this. andrew and mary, stick around a little bit longer. when we come back opening statements set to begin tomorrow in the seditious conspiracy trial of several members of the far right group the proud boys, what to expect from the prosecution's case that's next. prosecution's case that's next so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. a mystery! jessie loves playing detective. but the real mystery was her irritated skin. so, we switched to tide pods free & gentle. it cleans better, and doesn't leave behind irritating residues. and it's gentle on her skin. case, closed! it's gotta be tide. the promise of america

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tomorrow the united states department of justice will begin making its case against proud boys chairman enrique tario. it is the second high profile january 6th case that could bring yet another rare conviction of seditious conspiracy. in june federal prosecutors charged tario and former other proud boy members with spearheading the riot and bringing up to 300 people to the u.s. cap tal that day and of conspiring to oppose the lawful transfer of presidential power by force. the case against the proud boys focused on the violence that day could be the biggest test yet of suseditious conspiracy charges and comes six weeks after a major doj win. stuart rhodes and on a top deputy were convicted. it was the first convictions of this type in decades. we're back with andrew wiseman and mary mccord.

andrew, what are you watching for as your former colleagues make this case against the proud boy snz. >> well, first, i actually want to condemn the department. i've been critical in the department being slow to prosecute the foot soldiers. we saw what happened in brazil just a couple days ago and people were arrested on the spot. that didn't happen here for all variety of reasons. and doj in my view has also been slow to go after the higher ups, the people that was in the white house including the former president. but when it comes to the oath keepers and the proud boys the department really deserves credit in working their way up and bringing these as coordinated groups that fomented this insurrection. oats not to say there wasn't assistance and complicity in orders and direction and

conspirators in the white house, that these are really -- these are tough cases and i think the department has done a good job and seditious conspiracy is obviously a very important charge, and it really incapsulates what the department says happened here, and they've proven it already in a trial. and to your point of what to look for i think one of the more important and interesting things is what the judge did today. this is a judge who was appointed by donald trump, and he said that the government is going to be permitted to use the statement made by donald trump that we all heard during the campaign where he was debating now president biden, where he said with respect to the proud boys standby and stand back. and the judge said that is going to be admizable in part because enrique tario someone during the

january 6th commission admitted he was the head of the proud boys. he responded to that and said, yes, sir, standing by. and the judge said that is coming in as motive evidence that can be used and argued by the government that this gave an additional reason why this defendant would be participating in the january 6th events. so, one, it shows that the judge regardless of who appointed him seems to be completely following the law, which is lovely and wonderful to see in terms of our judiciary, and that this group is going to be held to account in court. obviously it's where the government proved beyond a reasonable doubt each and every element. so you have to wait and see whether they can do that. but certainly getting to this point is commendable for the department to have put this case together and be in a position to have their day in court for both sides. >> mary, does doj read anything

into a judge permitting donald trump's call to action, call to arms, donald trump's position as the top of the chain of command to the right-wing militias? is that an important piece of information for anyone at doj? >> well, doj always is interested in getting motive evidence in because jurors want to know why people did what they did. it helps them decide if really whether a crime was committed or not. it's standard practice in any case if not nearly a case as significant as this to try to get in evidence of motive, evidence of other bad acts, too, when they're relevant to intent and to motive. so here it happens to be it's the former president's statement, but i think the reason that the judge admitted it and i haven't seen a transcript of his ruling is because of the response by enrique tario as andrew emphasized because that shows,

again, even as far back as when that statement was made during the presidential debates that the proud boys' leader was listening to the president and ready to respond to that. i think there's a lot of other things that are unique about this case that are different from the oath keeper's trial that we'll probably see in the coming days including the fact that unlike the indictment of the oath keepers, almost everyone charged here except enrique tario who was not in d.c. because of his previous run in with the law and he was barred from d.c. on january 6th, but the others were also charged with physically assaulting capitol police officers and law enforcement. and, you know, the evidence of their physical assaults and the evidence of tario's statement afterwards -- not even afterwards, during it i think around 2:39 on january 6th in

response to his own people communicating with him are we a militia yet he said yeah and don't forget we did this. there's significant evidence not only of motive but all kinds of planning coming up to january 6th and communications on january 6th and really assaultive conduct that looks very bad for the defendants who are on trial. >> andrew wiseman and mary mccord, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. shifting gears completely ukraine's president zelenskyy thanks the western allies for sending more military aid to ukraine. his forces are in an intense fight to keep russian mercenaries for giving mus cow its first victory of the battle in months. we'll check in with our dear friend on everything in kyiv after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ything in kyiv after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

the war in ukraine is not over yet, but the tide is turning, and it is already clear who will win. ukraine will stop the russian aggression on our land. we will make it together with the whole free world, and i hope that all of you will be with us on the victorious day, the day of our victory. >> that was ukrainian president zelenskyy draesing the audience at the golden globes last night as his military is in a battle

for the donbas region today. russia shook up its military leadership for replacing a general appointed just three months ago and their struggle to maintain control of a key city in the donbas region just one day after mercenaries claimed to have gained control for russia. ukrainian troops headed to fort sill in oklahoma to train on patriot systems and poland pledging weapon tanks ukraine has been asking for many months now. joining us our dear friend. igor, tell me what's on your mind and then we'll deal with some of the headlines. >> i spent last night talking to people in charge of the defense of solidar so it was definitely a difficult night. the situation there is bad. it's literally a hell on earth,

so hardly any left. it's just horrific. furthermore i mean the blackouts have gotten worse. if i suddenly disappear it means we have another blackout in kyiv. apart from that, business as usual. we're still here and the good news we've got the tanks. we are getting patriot missiles. hopefully we'll get systems at some point so we're here to win it. >> igor, what is the sort of balance of -- and i know publicly you're always diplomatic, but these systems are coming when russia is resorting to just a very flagrant and brazen terrorism in the in ukraine about the pace with which international aid is coming into ukraine? >> well, obviously nothing can be fast enough.

until you see us winning decisively all over the battlefields, but at the same time, we wouldn't be here without that help. so that's important. i want to introduce an interesting idea to you. we've been discussing in kyiv lately this idea of instant justice. it's a very good way to get russia under control, at least partially. the west has frozen hundreds of billions of russian foreign reserves. so why not introduce instant repercussions for the terrorist attacks? say they fire a $100 million cruise missile, they fire it and $100 million gets compensated to ukraine. that's what we need to do, that will have detrimental grip on putin's grip on control. >> i'm for that. you tell me who we have to

convince. i know you follow our politics here, because literally the lives of ukrainian people depend on it. one of the things that was hotly debated in last week's five-decor nation of kevin mccarthy as speaker waz capping defense spending. and there are members in the republican caucus who are not as supportive of ukraine in its war against russia. what is sort of your read and what is the strategy on the part of the -- your president to deal with that? >> well, first of all, our president is preferring to communicate directly with the people of the united states rather than just with the politicians. but to be honest, as far as i'm concerned, it's my subjective opinion, it's a fatal mistake. why? because aggressive expansionism is on the rise globally. we have russia, iran, a number of threats. so at a time like that, defense

spending is basically asking for trouble. so i don't understand the reason for that, but i would strongly advise against that. >> igor, you're always so forthcoming how you and your family are doing, so we wanted to check in on all of you. >> yeah, positive stories. so just imagine my evening yesterday. so i'm sitting here on the phone literally crying because of the stuff i'm hearing about soledar and everything. and it gets to a point of utter bottom, the depression is setting in. then i go on twitter and there's this guy who keeps liking my tweets. i go, who's that? i open his profile. it turns out it's noodles from the offspring, the guitarist. so i had my fan boy moment. the guy who i've been listening to for like 30 years now has reinjected some life into me. and it's amazing. by the way, let me remind you about the resilience center.

the fund-raiser is still going on, on twitter. so if i may shamelessly plug that. so i would greatly appreciate your help with that. >> i will retweet it after this segment, as well. igor, thank you so much for continuing to come on and talking to us about what's going on. you know your invitation is an open one. stay safe. >> thank you. quick break for us. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. i'm a new york hotel. i'm looking for someone who needs a weekend in the city. you hungry? yeah, i know a place. it's the city that never sleeps. but hey, if you need a last-minute spot, i got you covered. a must in your medicine cabinet!

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we save some of our best news for last. just nine days after going into cardiac arrest on the football field, buffalo bills player damar hamlin has been discharged from the hospital. the bills released a statement on twitter from hamlin's care team leader that says this --

>> the reaction to hamlin's release, the head coach sean mcdermott said this, we're grateful he's home. when he's ready, we welcome him back. we wish him all the best on a remarkable and inspiring recovery. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. a quick break for us we'll be right back. will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. did you know if you turn to cold with tide you can save up to $150 a year on your energy bill? how? the lower the temp, the lower your bill.

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thank you so much. tonight, we have a report on some of the