isn't necessarily what works, the home made, what my mother would call loving hands at home approach can work even better. john fetterman in this tally that "axios" just put up has close to a million twitter followers. another new senator with a big big following, of course, senator j.d. vance of ohio. senator vance, senator fetterman, get used to saying it. >> it is new indeed. >> mike allen, we appreciate it as all always. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. new york republicans called on congressman george santos to resign, and santos responded saying he won't. but since it's santos, that means he will, maybe. hopefully. santos said he's not a quitter, and he proved it at the '92 olympics where he won five gold

medals. >> republicans aren't the only ones out there who want to get rid of george santos. two democrats requested a house ethics investigation, and hand delivered a copy of the complaint to santos' office, he wasn't there at the time, they had to give it to his assistant, admiral slorge santos. >> there are a lot of developments this morning with congressman george santos that we'll be updating you on. we're also learning a lot more this morning about the justice department's wide ranging investigation into january 6th. we're going to dig into new reporting on subpoenas sent to officials from former president donald trump's presidential campaign. >> which is significant, because, again, a lot of people have said, you can investigate a lot of different things, but at the end of the day, with everybody getting tried that was part of the riots and some people being charged with sedition, they're all pointing their finger at donald trump. most of them are saying he's the reason he was there, so this is

the doj saying -- taking that step forward and saying what a lot of people are demanding. if there's going to be justice for all, that donald trump's role in january 6th has to be looked into aggressively by the doj. >> plus, republicans continue to equate the small number of documents found in president biden's former office to nearly 200 pieces of government material that were stashed at mar-a-lago, and a new discovery could help them muddy the waters even more. we'll explain. meanwhile, gop leadership in the house gets the ball rolling on its top priority, the long promised investigation of president biden and his family. also ahead, we'll have the latest on the massive system failure that grounded flights for hours yesterday right during our show, and what can be done to prevent that from ever happening again.

>> and willie, a couple of side notes, good news and also sad news. the good news, of course, damar hamlin returning home from the hospital. can you believe that? >> again, nine days after he effectively was dead on a football field on monday night football. he's back at his home raising the question of what role he might have this weekend in the buffalo bills playoff game. is he well enough to show up at the stadium. can you imagine the added inspiration he would provide, but just, you can't be grateful enough based on where we were two mondays ago watching that scene on the field that he's back home with his family. >> right. sad news is jeff beck, one of the most influential guitarists in rock history passed away. he of course started his career with the yard birds who just had out sized influence. he then started his own group with some unknowns. a couple of guys named rod stewart and ron wood. if you listen to his work out of

that group, it's so obvious as "the new york times" said this morning that led zeppelin just came straight out of what jeff beck was doing there. the guy, just a legend of all legends. if you pick up a guitar, play rock music, this guy influenced you. >> i would be interested for your take on it. this is a guy, maybe not a household name to everybody, but if you talk to musicians, he's the guy. talk to eric clapton, keith richards, all the people you do know. jeff beck was the guy they looked up to. the fact that he was not a household name. the band you mentioned, he was in with rod stewart and ron wood who went on to join the stones later, they were invited to play at woodstock. jeff beck declined the invitation. in 1969 when brian jones died, mic jagger, keith richards

approached jeff beck called the rolling stones, he declined that as well. he was was just happy to be one of the best guitarists that ever lived and have a career there. >> he declined the stones offer when the stones were at the top of the world. you are exactly right, you know, my sister was a huge fan of his, and i remember when i was young looking, i don't know, maybe it was an 8 track tape she was popping in, and yeah, he was an incredible by guitarist. i always wondered why he didn't get bigger. it was by design. you talk to any great guitarist. they point to hendricks, jeff beck. those are the two guys that influenced all the great ones. >> and along with joe, willie and me, we have u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay, the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, and the cofounder of "axios," mike allen. good to have you all on with us this morning. >> happy thursday.

>> so a new report in the "washington post" says officials with former president donald trump's presidential campaign were hit with a new subpoena last month asking for information about the lead up to january 6th, the capitol attack, and related to fundraising. it's part of the justice department's extensive january 6th investigation. that's according to a copy reviewed by "the washington post." the subpoena seeks more than two dozen categories of information, and includes questions that were not part of similar subpoenas reviewed by the post sent in september. specifically, the subpoena demands documents about the january 6th rally on the ellipse, including fundraising and planning, along with coordination with any outside groups. it also seeks information related to other trump affiliated groups, including the make america great again pact. in addition, it seeks any

communication or information about dominion and smartmatic, the voting machine companies. nbc news has not reviewed the subpoena. joining us now, former u.s. attorney, barbara mcquade, an msnbc legal analyst. what do you make of this new information? >> i see it as a good news, bad news situation, for those seeking to hold the former president and his allies accountable. they're looking into who paid legal fees for trump campaign officials which could be very interesting in light of what we learned from cassidy hutchinson. they're asking questions about communications regarding the dominion and smartmatic voting machines, which could suggest looking for evidence to prove a conspiracy. if they're saying one thing publicly knowing it's false, that could be fraud.

and organizations that were fundraising off the stop the steal, they may be looking into what zoe lofgren referred to as the big ripoff. only now are they asking for these documents? it seems there's quite a bit of investigation left to go if they're just now requesting the documents because then they have to review them, analyze them, and interview or call to the grand jury the witnesses that that he could be asking questions about those things. so it makes it appear to me that an indictment is still many weeks, if not months away. >> you know, katty kay, there are a lot of people, and i have to include myself here, it's on tape, on january the 7th saying donald trump should be investigated by the doj for conspiracy to commit sedition. the further we have gotten away from it, the more evidence we've got, the time line we're seeing.

if this guy were not a former president, there's no doubt the doj would have already rolled him up into the investigation and charged him. i just -- i'm struck as is barbara, by how long it's taken them to ask for some of this basic material, and i also, again, i don't know how they continue charging people, and continue sentencing people that were a part of donald trump's riots who said they were inspired by donald trump without eventually having the doj indict donald trump. >> you're referencing the frustration i have heard from democrats about merrick garland in particular and why he's taken so long over this, and why the doj, in their eyes, has been so cautious over this. garland's defenders will say look, this is a guy who moves incredibly careful. he doesn't want to get into a

position where he presents charges that then would not be able to be followed through with, and wouldn't really result in a guilty charge. and that's why he's been, you know, getting all of his ducks in a row. you're right, we're over two years, we watched what happened in brazil, and other countries are copying what happened here, and still there haven't been charges brought against him in particular. i think you can only assume that garland is acting for whatever reasons, whether it was political and people were worried it was getting tied up in the midterm elections. maybe that was a little bit of a slow down in the process. but, you know, the midterms are behind us now, and democrats certainly are hoping this moves with a built more speed than it has done over the last two years. >> while that justice department investigation continues, these cases against people who were at the capitol go on as well. and a potentially key development against several proud boys leaders charged with seditious conspiracy. a federal judge ruled yesterday

prosecutors can use this video of then donald trump during the trial. >> what do you want to call him, give me a name? who would you like me to condemn. >> proud boys. >> stand back and stand by, but i'll tell you what, i'll tell you what, somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem. this is a left wing. >> that of course the infamous moment when donald trump made his stand back and stand by comment at the presidential debate in september of 2020. district judge timothy kelly said those words showed a an additional motive to advocate for mr. trump and engage in the conspiracy to keep trump in power. prosecutors and proud boys members who testified before the january 6th house committee said the comment were celebrated by the far right group, they were, and used as a recruiting tool. five members of the group are on trial, accused of planning to attack the u.s. capitol on january 6th, 2021. it's a statement of fact.

we know it from testimony that the proud boys and other groups took that moment on the stage with the world watching the presidential debate as a signal, get ready. >> we have seen that video hundreds, if not thousands of times, it's galling that he can not condemn these groups. we know he understood that some of these hate groups, were supporters. we saw what they did, the role they played on january 6th. barbara, let me come to you here. we know the context of this. how legally significant is it that these comments, stand back, stand by uttered by trump in that debate with joe biden back in 2020 can now be used in these seditious conspiracy trials stemming from january 6th riot? >> well, i think it's significant in the case against the proud boys because that was a signal for them that began some of their recruiting, but

was a unifying cause. that was part of their conspiracy, and what prosecutors have to prove is an agreement to do this attack. that was something that ignited the recruiting, the communication, the travel to washington and what they did. very significant in that case. whether it can be used against donald trump, as awful as it is, it reminds me a lot of the statement he made when he said, russia, if you're listening, we're looking for hillary clinton's e-mails. you have to show an agreement to tie someone to a conspiracy. making a random comment, even if it was igniting for a particular group is not enough for a conspiracy standing alone. if there's evidence that others, roger stone and mike flynn, some of these people who have been seen with some of these seditious conspirators on january 6th and more, if you can tie them to part of the agreement to attack the capitol, then that is a possible way to draw trump and as allies into the seditious conspiracy. i think the other crime that the committee recommended was

inciting insurrection, providing the inspiration, lighting the match that caused people to attack. because the supreme court provides so much protection for political speech, i don't know if that gets you there. but i'll tell you the part that does possibly get you there that i thought was a brilliant move by the committee, which is to include in the recommending charge, assisting insurrection with the 2:24 tweet that occurred after the attack started saying mike pence didn't have the courage to do what was necessary and the united states demands the truth. that one put fuel on the fire, and i think could be a basis for assisting an insurrection against donald trump. >> you know, mike allen, there's right now a big friction between the law and politics. you take a prosecution, like, for instance, against a guy who almost beat ron desantis in 2018. andrew gillham. the feds had a year's long investigation against him, and charged him ultimately, i think it took him about six years to

charge him after -- with some of the things that he did began, and it's just commenting to people in tallahassee when he got charged, how long has this been going on. they said the feds have been investigating him for years. that's what the fbi does. that's what the doj does. they take their time before they roll them up and they make sure -- there's a reason why they have such a high conviction rate because it takes a long time. they get the job done. but you take merrick garland, now to the political side of it. i don't think i've ever seen a guy attacked by both sides more than this guy. the left hates him. the right hates him. he's too slow. he's too fast. i mean, he is really stuck in the middle of politics. i'm curious your reporting on it. what's his opinion of it? and what do the rank and file

members of the doj think about this push and pull from the left and right. >> yeah, joe, your point, this is what the doj does. that is so true about federal prosecutors another piece of reporting in the post story that leapt out at me that bolsters your point is the fact that the january 6th grand jury has accelerated the testimony that it's getting from witnesses, and here as a country lawyer, joe, this will perk up your ears, they're hearing from witnesses high and low who were involved in these events, so the between the lines, the through line between the parts of the story is that they're casting an exceedingly wide net, and what we can see with each of these pieces is they're documenting forensically, what is the difference between what has been said and what was done publicly and what was in people's minds. what did they know what was going on. the post points out in the case

of voting machines, it does what was being known and said behind the scenes. does that show that people knew that what was being said was false? and you're right, atop all of this, attorney general garland, and what he's done has been what the white house has done saying we're letting the prosecutors do their work. it's what they did when they brought in the special prosecutor on the trump documents case. but just reminding everybody, don't bring in the special prosecutor typically to decide nothing happened. >> right. and barbara, could you follow up on just the reality that the wheels of justice grind slowly, but they also grind fine, i think is how that saying concludes. >> i will, joe, and i am as frustrated as anyone to see no charges filed yet, but i will also say having been on the inside of complex corruption cases and none as complex as

this one. it takes a lot of time to develop admissible evidence you can use in a courtroom to cross examine your own witnesses to find out whether they can stand up on cross examine to anticipate every defense and work to button that down, longer than people in the public anticipate. every time you send a subpoena and get documents, you find out about new people to need to question to make sure there isn't something you don't know. you can't have the moment where the courtroom doors burst open and there's a surprise. you need to talk to everybody and know what happened. it takes longer than we think. it seems the justice department probably should have asked for some of these documents earlier. that part troubles me a little bit, but the fact that they have not yet indicted really is not surprising in light of the goal of really buttoning down a case, because when you come at the king, you best not miss. >> exactly. that's what's so important there. their investigations against

members of congress and people who have turned evidence against them that, again, seem to be going on and on. but the feds -- and i suppose you could be happening in january 6th as well. perhaps they're turning witnesses against donald trump that we don't know about. a lot of things are going on behind the scenes, and they take their time because as barbara said, when you go after the king, you better not miss. you could say the same things about members of congress, judges, et cetera, et cetera. >> msnbc legal analyst, barbara mcquade, thank you very much for your insight this morning. so planes are back up in the air this morning after yesterday's faa system outage grounded all u.s. flights for several hours. the faa wrote in a tweet yesterday, we are continuing a thorough review to determine the root cause of the notice to air mission system outage. our preliminary work has traced the outage to a damaged data

base file. at this time, there is no evidence of a cyber attack. according to a senior government official, that damaged data base file affected both the primary and backup systems. the notice to air mission system sends pilots vital information that they need to fly. it is separate from air traffic control that keeps planes a safe distance from one another. transportation secretary pete buttigieg directed an after-action process for the faa writing in a tweet, at my direction, faa is continuing its system review. faa will continue its work to further pinpoint the sources of this issue and steps to prevent it from occurring again. yesterday's outage delayed more than 10,000 flights and over 1,000 more were cancelled across the country. joining us now, president and ceo of u.s. travel association jeff freeman. u.s. travel is a national

nonprofit organization that represents and advocates for all components of the travel industry. and it's good to have you on the show this morning. so what are the different domino effects of this outage that impacts from travelers to airlines? >> good morning, mika. this is clearly a breakdown across the system. as you said, more than 10,000 flights delayed. it's leading to an american public that can't count on the reliability of the system. let's first of all say, the faa does a great job with the airlines of keeping the system safe, but safe and efficient and reliable shouldn't be mutually exclusive. there's a way to have the safety we do, but have people be able to count on this experience. 202220% of all flights were delayed or cancelled. it's unacceptable. >> jeff, what you were saying yesterday, so much of the technology we rely on, more broadly, the air traffic control

system was designed in the 1960s and '70s and hasn't been upgraded or overhauled significantly. can you describe what it's like right now, and what needs to happen in terms of air traffic control? >> i think across the airline system, we are using antiquated technology, what we have in our car is so much of what the faa has been using over the years. there's a lot of complicated factors that explain it. i think at the end of the day, we haven't had the desire to build a best in class air travel system in the united states. we have been willing to accept these inefficiencies. i think the american public is too tolerant. we accepted long security lines. if this is what it takes to make us more secure, we can deal with it. tsa precheck, we can be safe and secure, efficient and secure at the same time, i think what we need is a public that's less tolerant, more demanding of a system that's a heck of a lot more efficient and an faa less

worried about petty fines here and there and more concerned about getting to the bottom of antiquated technologies, the fact that we have fewer air traffic controllers today than we did ten years ago, these are the issues that need to be addressed. >> no one was suggesting there was anything nefarious about what happened yesterday but all of the weaknesses that the incident highlighted, does it lead to concerns in your mind that somebody could exploit those faults in the system to launch some kind of attack against american airline industry? >> well, i think we all know from a cyber security standpoint, there are people trying to attack systems every day of every week. and the airline industry and the faa to date have done a remarkable job of keeping those nefarious actors away, and they'll continue to do that. the thing that has been proven that we can count on is the safety of the system. we all fly weekly. we see what's going on out there. the system is getting people to point a to point b safely. what it isn't doing is

necessarily giving people the confidence that it's going to do it efficiently. the question here how do we balance that safety. how do we maintain that safety. how do we supplement that safety with the efficiency that we demand. i'm confident in the faa and airline industry when it comes to the safety side. we've got a lot of work to do when it comes to the efficiency. >> all right. u.s. travel association president and ceo, jeff freeman, thank you so much for being with us. we really appreciate it. >> mike allen, i find it -- well, we'll just say it's rich, isn't it rich, send in the clowns, and that i'm talking about republicans in congress who constantly under fund the faa, constantly cut agencies like the irs, constantly cut domestic funding for one agency after another, and then they act out outraged when somebody like this happens. like, for instance, pete buttigieg being attacked by the very same republicans who won't

fund an antiquated system despite the fact aviation experts have been begging them to for years. >> that's a great point, joe, and this check is coming due. your viewers in their workplaces have heard the term tech debt, and this is when we're stuck with these antiquated systems or when we're way way way behind of what we need, and what we've seen over the last two, three weeks in america is that both on the airline side, the private industry side, and on the government side, there's a huge tech debt in this industry that touches people very personally. and i like jeff freeman's point about the safety of the place, and we'd much rather wait and have cancellations and have delays than take any risks. but people are going to be demanding changes and now there are big opportunities for that. one later this year, the faa's five-year funding comes up before congress, and so a lot of

questions are going to be asked there, and of course, as joe says, republicans and now the house majority are going to jump on this as part of their investigations, but as part of that, there's two sides in that. we're going to hear both sides, and i think this will one of the massive issues of 2023. >> the cofounder of "axios," mike allen. thank you. we'll take a look at how republicans are responding including one long time gop strategist who appears to be coming to biden's defense. plus, republican congressman george santos is facing growing calls to resign. including from members of his own party. there are also new questions this morning about whether he'll get any committee assignments. and later this morning, democratic congresswoman katie

porter who just announced a 2024 senate bid will be our guest. plus, the latest forbes 50 over 50 list with know your value, the second annual 50 over 50 asia. we'll announce that. also, big news on the headliners joining me at the 30/50 summit in abu dhabi, which is now just eight weeks away. that's all straight ahead on "morning joe," and you can always read much more about all of that at knowyourvalue.com. we'll be right back. l of that at knowyourvalue.com we'll be right back.

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president's belongings during his time as vice president, at least one other batch of classified documents was discovered. that search started in november in response to the discovery of about a dozen other classified documents found in a d.c. office use bid biden after his time in the obama administration. the classification level of any of these documents unclear right now. it's also not yet known when and where the second batch of documents was discovered or how many were found. president biden addressed the matter on tuesday saying his team was cooperating fully with the department of justice review of the matter. in the remarks, though the president did not mention more documents had been found, aside from the ones we initially learned about. the white house has not replied for a new request of comments about the second batch, mika. speaking to reporters, kevin mccarthy tried to draw an equivalency between biden's situation and the one of classified documents found in

former president trump's possession. >> why is he treated different? anytime we find something that comes up before the election with the biden family, it's pushed under the rug. it's called a lie. it's called the russians are doing it. now why do they treat president trump totally different? they treat people differently based upon their philosophicals, political party, that is wrong. >> wow. >> the thing is he knows he's lying. this is what's always surprising to me, i'm still surprised people know the difference. they stare in cameras, they lie about this, and he acts shocked. he knows the difference. we're going to show you a clip in a second of top republican strategist who is. >> honest. >> as pro republican as can be, and he lays out the very clear differences. everybody knows the clear differences. that doesn't stop people like lindsey graham who for some

reason wasn't concerned about donald trump stealing classified documents now talking about a special counsel. >> if there's not a special counsel appointed to find out how this happened with president biden regarding classified information, there is going to be a lot of -- it will hurt the country. garland, if you're listening, if you thought it was necessary, attorney general, to appoint a special counsel regarding president trump, then you need to do the exact same thing regarding president biden when it comes to handling classified information. >> it's so sad. >> it's just pitiful. >> it is sad. it is pitiful. bless his heart, you wonder who he's really talking to. i guess it's a shrinking number of voters that he's talking to because they keep losing elections. they try this year in and year out. they lie. they draw these false

equivalencies this is always about donald trump. they continue to trash their party. they continue to lie. they continue to destroy the conservative movement all in defense of a guy who never defends them. >> there's also republican senator josh hawley of missouri who yesterday sent a letter to merrick garland requesting a special counsel citing what he called an astounding double standard. >> there's really no astounding double standard. what's astounding is that guy is writing a book on manhood. anyway, little fingers, like bird type bone structures. >> you have to remember, donald trump refused to return them. he was asked repeatedly to return them. >> january 6th, he acted tough outside with his bird hand in the air, and ran as fast as he could. >> we'll note unlike in trump's case, there is no evidence that president biden defied a federal

subpoena ordering him to return the documents and while we are still learning more about the second batch of files reportedly found in the first instance, biden's team immediately informed the department of justice and the national archives about its discovery. and turned them over the next day. >> why don't we listen to a lifetime republican presidential strategist karl rove, we'll let him explain it further. >> there are differences. for example, how many documents, in biden's case there appear to be about ten, in the case of president trump, hundreds. how did they get there? we don't yet know how the documents got to the biden office connected with his activities on behalf of the university of pennsylvania. we know that president trump ordered the removal of the documents to mar-a-lago. how responsive were they when the biden people found out about it, they called and immediately

called appropriate authorities and turned them over. we spent a year and a half watching the drama unfold in mar-a-lago and it had to end in a police search to recover the documents. >> and there is what makes all the difference. >> apples and oranges. >> makes all the difference when you're talking about investigations. the biden team finds it, they immediately notify the doj, they return the documents, willie, take care of it immediately. trump fights for a year and a half. i mean, i know josh hawley is not stupid. i mean, is he one of those yale boys? i think he's one of those ivy league boys. i know he's not stupid. lindsey certainly knows that there's a huge difference too. a year and a half, a year and a half that trump lied his lawyers lied, they fought, they hid the documents, moved the documents the day after the doj called,

the fbi called. the whole thing, they were dragging their feet, they were clearly trying to obstruct the investigation. biden's people find it, send it, it's over. >> notified them. it's amazing, they are still going to the mat for donald trump. they're digging in deeper on it. they're creating entire committees inside the house of representatives now to defend donald trump after everything that he's brought them. and by the way, it should be pointed out, people like lindsey graham, marco rubio, you can go down the list, josh hawley were dismissive of the mar-a-lago document case. the fbi kicked open the door. it was a raid. it was a document storage issue, you need to get over it. lindsey graham said there are going to be riots in the street if you come after donald trump about any of this stuff. and now jonathan lemire, they're deeply concerned about the storage of classified documents, which by the way is very important, but the hypocrisy on

display is stunning. >> that's what this is right now. it's extraordinary hypocrisy, republicans who down played what happened and what was found at mar-a-lago and now trying to amp this one up. and certainly these are not equal. there's apples and oranges the was phrase we used yesterday. that is appropriate today even after the discovery of the second batch of documents. how classified might they be, where were they found, when were they found. his aides and lawyers started looking in other locations to make sure if they found anything else, and if so, turn it over to the national archives and the department of justice. that is the right and responsible thing to do. is there grumbling from democrats the last few days, worries about this, of course there are, and there are questions to the white house as to why the president or press secretary weren't more forthcoming when asked about the first batch, why not talk about the second batch which had been discovered at that point. there's going to be clean up the white house is going to have to do, but these are two different

situations and what the republicans are doing now, trying to equate them, doesn't work. we're seeing the split careen between the two and right now, the white house continues to cooperate and have said they will do whatever the department of justice requires them to put the matter to bed. >> it may not work on the face of it, on the legality, on the facts of this, but of course republicans feel like they have been handed this massive christmas present belatedly because they're going to make hay out of this, and it does play to a perception in the republican base, particularly the trump base that he and republicans in general, but he specifically is treated differently by the department of justice, by the media, by the deep state, whatever that is, by everybody else, and so they are going to milk this one, and there are some legitimate questions, you know, some of these documents concerned, we understand, ukraine, the united kingdom, iran. iran and ukraine, in particular, sensitive topics, of course, and it would be, i think in the

white house's interest to clear up those outstanding questions because they are hampered by the fact that they didn't reveal this information as soon as they had it. while those questions linger, they are going to be distracted by the questions, we are going to quite understandably ask questions as we should do, and as soon as they can answer the questions in a way that's satisfactory, they can move on, and then the differences between the two cases, which are evident and clear and all the republican leadership knows it, the differences between these two cases, joe, will be actually more clear to the public because there won't be lingering shadowy questions about it. >> exactly. i think the best thing for everybody is investigate all of it out there. investigate everything. when you investigate it, the american people are going to see very clearly the massive differences between the two, so air it all out. the biden administration should be as transparent as possible, especially considering the

contrasts with donald trump who hid the documents, who moved the documents after the fbi called, who lied to the doj, who lied to the fbi about returning all of the documents, as karl rove said, it took a year and a half, yeah, let's air all of this out, lindsey, let's air all of this out mr. manhood, let's air all of this out, kevin. it's not going to go well. >> they know this. >> i keep trying to tell you this. >> and they know it. >> i'm trying to tell you this as a conservative and a former republican that have seen you guys destroy the party, the party that, by the way, i was a member of and running in office before a lot of you guys were like, you know. >> finishing yale. >> finishing yale or your other ivy league schools. you do stupid things like this, dumb things like this, and you just make it easier to get beaten two years from now, and

again, i have been warning you about this, i don't know if you i told you this, you lost in 2018, 2019, 2020, you lost in 2022, and so go ahead, air the dirty laundry, and let's talk about both sides here, again, you lose. and you know you lose. at some point stop being stupid politically. you know, we used to always joke about how easy democrats were to beat. we did. we'd sit around and laugh. say, i can't believe how easy these guys are to beat. some things happened. your political stupidity is making all the democrats look like a bunch of einsteins. that's hard to do sometimes, but you've done it, and you keep doing it by doing stupid things like this. your phoney investigations, if you would talk about inflation, if you would talk about the

debt, if you would talk about the burdens on small business owners. if you would talk about the burdens on entrepreneurs, if you would talk about the outsized power of silicon valley. if you would talk about the double standard that social media companies have that every other company in america doesn't have, they have been shielded. if you talk about these sort of things, you'd be talking about issues that mattered to americans. and by talking about issues that matter to americans instead of living in your little bubble, you might start winning elections again. >> this is really great advice that they're not going to take. >> you'll just keep taking it. >> lindsey, he just keeps hitting himself in the head, making the same mistakes. >> i don't understand. and they just keep -- again, i

just -- >> i've never seen anything like it before in my life. >> i hate losing, like political campaigns, there's no way. it just -- i didn't want it to happen. these people keep losing and they don't care. >> they don't care. >> they would rather quote own the libs when they don't really own it and lose elections than do what's smart. still ahead, we're watching wall street this morning as investigators have a key new inflation report. what it could mean for the pace of future rate hikes from the federal reserve. >> they just keep losing. plus, an explanation for one of the major unanswered questions of donald trump's presidency surrounding his love, and we mean love, for north korean dictator, kim jong un. >> speaking of stupid. >> that's next on "morning joe." >> it's another example of supreme republican stupidity. you lose. bye bye. go home. you lose bye bye.

go home.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is 49 past the hour. a live look at the white house as the sun has yet to come up over washington. washington correspondent for the "new york times," michael schmidt is out next week with the paperback edition of his book "donald trump versus the united states," and among the new material featured in it is a 13,000 word profile of former president donald trump's longest serving chief of staff john kelly. remember him? the profile brings to light several details, including kelly's role behind trump's pivot from trying to provoke north korean leader kim jong un to befriending him. it reads in part this, kelly told the president that engaging with kim could prove once and

for all that he was the greatest salesman in the world. in one on one conversations kelly tried to gently nudge trump away from his incendiary language toward north korea, telling him that he could unintentionally set off a conflict if his language was misread. you're pushing him to prove he's a man, kelly said to trump. if you push him into a corner, he may strike out. you don't want to box him in. >> let's bring in michael schmidt right now. michael, there are so many revelations here. one has to do with the fact how shocked general kelly was at just how ignorant donald trump was in the basics of foreign policy, and i often try to explain to people, what people consider to be maniacal of donald trump is pure ignorance at types. he had no grasp on the basics of foreign policy, quote, why did we go to war in north korea.

kelly then explained the basics of the korean war to the president. why the blank are we in nato, he would ask kelly. trump's question didn't have to do with philosophical arguments, he just didn't understand it. kelly explained, sir, it came as a result of world war ii. also something that kicked up a lot of dust, the atlantic read an article about donald trump calling people a loser who had gotten killed in a war and lot of people were accusatory saying, oh, they just made that quote up. you reveal here, it actually was -- it actually was general kelly. why the blank do we think they're heroes, soldiers who are injured or died in a war, they're getting too much praise. they're losers, donald trump said. that of course, was it not, michael, one of the things, that and his hatred for john mccain,

one of the things that ended their relationship? >> let's deal with the most important part of this 12,000 word thing that i have put on the paperback of my book, and we'll get to it, and that is in the piece i where that kelly had to keep an eye on "morning joe" because despite what donald trump was saying publicly, donald trump was watching "morning joe" and watching what you were saying about him, and would come down from the residence around 11:00 in the morning and complain about what he heard on "morning joe," so despite claiming not to watch it, he was watching it. >> yeah. by the way, we heard that from a lot of staff members, and, by the way, hi, donald. >> please stop. >> he's still watching. we begged him to stop watching, but he wouldn't do it. >> let's talk about, though, this reveal of donald trump that many people have known about,

but he just, john kelly just learned that donald trump just didn't know a lot about foreign policy. >> so when kelly came in as chief of staff, he thought that the problem around trump was that he was not staffed properly and they needed to create a process around him, and that's what the chaos of the first six months of the administration was about. but when kelly comes in as chief of staff, what he realizes is that the problem is not just the fact that there's not a process and that he's not being staffed as well as he could, but that trump himself was the problem, that trump was far dumber and immoral and ignorant and lazy than he ever thought he was. and within a few days, he becomes terrified because here he is, the top staffer to the president of the united states, and he's realizing that the president of the united states is far more limited and

potentially dangerous than he ever thought, and at that point, there was no one else to call. he was -- it was just him and trump, and he basically spends the next 18 months trying to manage trump as much as he could. and no issue for kelly sort of typified the shortcomings of trump and the potential dangers that he presented then north korea. >> and let's talk about another aspect of it that was shocking to john kelly, how shallow donald trump was when he would select people. i remember during the transition talking to him, and him talking about how rex tillerson was big and he looked like the role. and he loved mattis because of his nickname, mad dog. he didn't like petraeus because he thought petraeus worked out too much. he was too drawn in, he weighed the same in high school that he weighed when trump was talking to him, and no secretary of

state could be that drawn. i'm serious. >> i watched this conversation in awe. >> this is shocking. >> he was obsessed with how much he worked out and thought that somehow it didn't look manly enough, like you need to not care so much. >> right. and so all of this leads up of course to a conversation, and this is the general talked about all of this with you. it led to a conversation about nikki haley, why he didn't want nikki haley to be secretary of state or vice president. >> what trump said, so trump is throwing around different possibilities for replacement of tillerson and pence, even as far back as 2018, talking about whether he could replace pence. and in discussing that, he says, well, you know, what do you think about nikki haley, he throws out in the oval office. and what trump says is that she doesn't look good for me. and he complains about her blotchy complexion and saying

that, you know, because of her aesthetics, he didn't like her as a potential, you know, senior administration official or as a potential vice presidential replacement for pence who trump was complaining as far back as then owed him, that pence owed him because trump had saved pence from political ruin when he picked him in 2016 to be his vice president. >> willie, obviously shocking and yet not surprising at all. i mean, the only question -- >> this from a man with -- >> do they not have mirrors in mar-a-lago? >> i think they have mostly mirrors in mar-a-lago based on the decor i have seen from some of the photographs. the quote, he said, donald trump, according to general kelly is of nikki haley, she has that skin thing. she doesn't look good for me. didn't like her complexion, he said, there was something wrong. i don't know what he's talking about there. >> i don't either. >> bigger picture, mike.

general kelly, like mattis and others said privately and publicly a later, i stayed in because the alternative was catastrophic for the country. if i leave, rudy giuliani comes in. if i leave, person x comes in, and there are no guardrails left. how did he now with some distance from it and he was in the room with donald trump while all of this was happening, trying to keep things on the rails, how did he talk about his time in there, and how long he decided to stay and when he decided to leave? >> one of the things about kelly is he has not really spoken publicly, and he won't talk publicly. i did an interview with him that ran in the "new york times" about a month ago about him talking about trump trying to weaponize the irs, but he will not talk publicly about trump because -- or not much about trump because he sees his role as like a general who believes the divide between the military and politics is essential.

now, this frustrates a lot of people, and it, you know, people have often wanted kelly to speak out publicly more than he has. but i think he's extremely conflicted by the fact that he is a four-star marine general and that divide between politics and who he is is important. the thing about kelly's tenure as chief of staff is that a lot of really bad stuff goes on in the first two years of trump's administration. but when compared to the second two years, when trump is truly unbound, and trump's allowed to be himself, the consequences are even greater. so in a sense, kelly's thesis about trump that he needed to be contained and he needed to be managed is proven true by the fact of just what happens and how much it spins out of control and the type of people that are surrounding trump and those

final two years, particularly in the post election period. and, look, that's not to say that the first two years went really well. there's a lot of stuff that didn't go well. but the first two years are different in the trump story than the second two years. >> we're coming up here on the top of the hour, 7:00 on the east coast, talking to michael schmidt about the paper back edition of his new book that includes an interview with general kelly, how did he take the line that joe referred to earlier as a four star marine general when talking about injured and wounded war veterans, donald trump saying to general kelly, quote why the eff do you think they're heroes, they're losers, which makes your blood boil, how does general kelly handle a comment like that and a man who thinks that way? >> i think that one of the difficulties that kelly encountered is kelly is the

highest ranking american military officer to lose a child in the wars after 9/11. and at the same time, he's serving as the top staffer to someone who shows no regard for those who died on the battlefield or who suffered, you know, injuries and such. and he has to sort of explain to trump that, you know, you're wrong. these are heroes. you can't talk the way that you're talking about john mccain. you can't talk the way that you're talking about those who perished. and those who suffered these ultimate -- these devastating consequences because of their service. and it's something that i'll never totally understand. in my reporting for the book and talking to as many people that knew kelly as possible how it is

that he was able to put up with that. and i think that kelly essentially tried to endure as much pain as he could as trump's chief of staff as far and as long as possible until the relationship falls apart, and he feels that he has to go. but i think he basically felt i will try and stay here as long as possible with this person who i didn't -- you know, in my reporting, i learned that kelly had told someone, i didn't think they created people like this. and i think kelly thought i will endure this as long as possible. and then i will go. >> you know, katty kay -- >> i didn't think they created people like this. >> katty kay, let's just take a step back. during the trump administration from the very beginning, there was a massive debate going on about people that took jobs with

donald trump and whether they were morally compromised, people that stayed in while donald trump was still there. general kelly -- >> people that waited to write a book. >> general mattis stayed in a long time. there were a lot of people that stayed in a long time, and there are constantly people chirping from the cheap seats saying you need to get out, you need to get out, and the further we get away from it, the more we realize that these people, kelly's one of them, general mattis is another, they actually did think, and i think for good reason that they were serving their country, trying to stop somebody worse from coming in, someone who's extraordinarily unpopular with certain people. debra birx, you know, she held on as long as she could and people were saying, oh, she needs to get out. she's letting him lie, et cetera, et cetera, well, she knew that whatever followed her

would be worse, and sure enough we got atlas who was an absolute nightmare, and so looking back on it, i think in that debate, it's very clear that those that went in that were qualified that put up with all of the garbage they put up with were saving us from a worse situation. we found it can always get worse and it did, exponentially after these people left. >> yeah, i mean, you just have to look at the difference between john kelly and mark meadows, right, in terms of their relationship with trump and the degree to which they tried to reign in his worst instincts. that north korea example is so interesting because kelly was right that you didn't want to push kim jong un into a position where he may feel his manhood was being threatened and so he had to act out. now, unfortunately trump's way that he responded to that was he went 180 and exchanged love letters with him, and that was unhelpful, and the summits were

unhelpful as well. kelly was right to reign him in, and he did. and you look at somebody like mark meadows, who never, all the cassidy hutchinson testimony about meadows, he never tried to reign him in. you know that trump doesn't want to hear this. let's not bother raising it with him. mike, that's, you know, if you look then, you alluded to the kind of first, and i'm having slightly ptsd hearing all of this again about the chaos of the first two years, but you compare the first two years that were chaotic and look at the second two years and more grave things happened in terms of the united states, kind of compare that for us. >> i think for kelly, the thing

that spent as much time as he could around r trump to do that, would manage the staff and manage sort of the west wing operations and kelly would deal directly with trump, and in that process, kelly spends an extraordinary amount of time in 2017 and 2018 with trump, and he basically goes and goes until the relationship really falls apart. i mean, i think it was continuously falling apart, and kelly was just losing his patient and his ability to take the pain of working for trump and it falls apart in france when they go there for this world war i ceremony and memorial. it gets even worse around the time that john mccain dies and by the beginning of 2019, kelly is gone. by the spring of 2019, you have trump's call to zelenskyy in

ukraine. we could go on and on of what happens in '19 and '20. but those two years are different than '17 and '18. that's not to say that '17 and '18 were run like a flawless white house. that's not the case, but there is a different tone and tenor to the last two years than there is to the first two years. >> and when thinking, john, about that contrast, of the two periods, ask yourself if around january 6th, around the election, if general kelly were the chief of staff, would mr. pillow be allowed into the oval office talking about martial law as mark meadows let him do. that's a good thought experiment. >> kelly had some success limiting visitors to the oval office, trump eventually rebelled against that. there's a suggestion what the next presidency would be would he win. in the paperback, you have a section explaining that behind

closed doors in 2017, president trump discussed the idea of using a nuclear weapon against north korea and suggesting that he could bring a u.s. strike on another country. >> oh, my god. >> i mean, evolution. >> oh, my god, help us. >> the evolution of the north korea and the relationship with kim jong un is fascinating. i was there in the dmz when he stepped over the line to shake kim jong un's hand. back in 2017, it was fire and fury, and potentially a nuclear attack, tell us about it. >> so what i learned is that behind closed doors in front of his aides, trump would talk cavalierly about using force against north korea. trump was saying publicly that was signaling the potential of military conflict. it's eight days after kelly comes in that trump says fire and fury. and what happens is that trump is saying privately what he's

saying publicly. so if you're a foreign country and you know that trump is saying behind closed doors, you think, oh, man what is he going to do. i think the concerns in the west wing at the time, kim, fearing that the united states is going to do something may try and do something himself or a general who was working for kim would try and do something that he thought kim would want, and if north korea were to do something like that, let's say they were to shoot a missile at the united states or into south korea, the united states may be able to stop that, but it would set off a conflict that could easily spiral out of control. and kelly knew that on one hand, you had kim who had to -- was a dictator, who had to appeal to elites to stay in power, and you had trump who was as insecure a person as kelly had ever seen. so he's fearful that these two

people are going to set off a massive military conflict. and you have to remember, john kelly is a four-star marine general who had spent his life studying conflict. he had studied war. he had gone to war. he had -- he understood the consequences of it, but he also understood the history of it, and how these things could missignal here, a mis-signal there could set off a conflict. >> and you have to wonder which country he had in mind to blame, is it south korea, get south korea attacked by north korea. we have a lot more to talk about, it's fascinating, your book. you and adam mentos, and katie mentor have a deep dive of hunter biden. we're going to have you back because this is a long conversation but just give us the broad strokes about what you

found, what's true about hunter biden's story, what's not true? >> the republicans in the house have made the hunter biden story out to be one that joe biden is at the center of this enterprise to make money abroad. and to do these foreign deals. and what we found is that there's really nothing to back that up, that story. there's nothing that shows that joe biden was directly involved in hunter biden's business dealings. what we did find is it's a very sad and troubling story of hunter biden. hunter biden is someone who was trying to make as much money as possible. he raised concerns amongst the president's aides and advisers and friends that he was using -- he was cashing in on his name, that he was doing exotic deals with foreigners that could

expose his father to political liability and that were questionable and that he was really sort of pushing the limit in that area and sort of laying the seeds for political consequences for his father. and what we also found is that the hunter biden is, as it's been widely reported, under federal investigation. but the charges that the u.s. attorney's office in delaware is looking at in regards to hunter biden are far narrower than the allegations and accusations that the house republicans have made. house republicans have basically accused hunter biden of a range of different crimes. but the crimes are in question here, that the u.s. attorney's office are weighing are related to -- are narrow questions on his taxes, and whether he lied on a form to purchase a gun.

and it shows that there's a gap there between what the justice department ultimately finds most troubling and is most concentrated on compared to what the house republicans think hunter biden did. >> you point out it's a trump appointed u.s. attorney in delaware that's looking into the case of hunter biden and it's narrow, a couple of years of taxes and if he lied on this form. we're going to have you back. there's so much to talk about. i hope people get a chance to sit with the piece, read through it. it's a balanced piece, the tale of hunter biden comes front and center. the book meanwhile, "donald trump versus the united states" out now in paperback with the new interview with general kelly. thank you so much for being here. appreciate it. mika. still ahead on "morning joe," what we're learning this morning about the cause of yesterday's faa outage. that grounded thousands of flights across the country. nbc's tom costello joins us with the very latest.

plus, the house january 6th probe may be over, but the justice department's investigation is still ongoing. we'll take a look at the new subpoena sent to trump campaign officials and what it means for the new house weaponization committee. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. watching "" we'll be right back.

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type in your prescription, and then present the coupon to your pharmacist. it's that simple. not to mention, it's free. singlecare is accepted by major pharmacies across the country and it works for everyone, whether you have insurance or not. next time you need a prescription filled, go to singlecare to make sure you get the best price. visit singlecare.com and start saving today. a live look at reagan national airport at 18 past the hour. planes are on the runway and moving along this morning. >> that's good news. >> yeah, 24 hours after it was chaos in the skies or lack thereof. no planes in the skies. turning now to the major faa system outage that left hundreds of u.s. flights grounded yesterday. that is having ripple effects playing out still today. here to break down the latest

from reagan international airport, news correspondent covering aviation, tom costello. >> reporter: things are moving, they are loading up with bags, things are moving on the ramp and the runway. a vast improvement over yesterday. we've got 527 flights delayed nationwide. 63 cancelled, like i said, nothing compared to yesterday when we the series of cascading delays and cancellations. we now know why. it was a damaged piece of in the data base, a critical software that the faa relies on every single day. so far, no hint of a cyber attack. >> at airports across the country this morning, all systems are a go. even though some passengers are still struggling with the domino effects of yet another turbulent day for air travel. the faa now says a corrupted software file led to the largest ground stop of flights since

9/11. just before we came on the air wednesday. >> we've got a major outage. breaking news coming from the faa. >> a big story right now. >> the faa has grounded all american flights. >> that software shut down led to a two-hour halt on the tarmac, and then 9,000 delays, nearly 3,000 cancellations through the day. the faa says the notam, notice to air missions system, went down. it relays essential safety information to pilots on everything from runway closures, construction, military and space activities. >> it provides the pilots with the most up-to-date information on things that are not normal, and airline pilots are required to have it. >> as the agency worked to bring it all back online, morning travelers, especially with connections, found themselves stuck and scrambling. >> we all anticipate coming to the airport, and everything going smoothly.

and today that didn't happen. >> government sources tell nbc news issues started developing tuesday, prompting the faa to reboot the system. >> this is an incredibly complex system. so glitches or complications happen all the time. we can't allow them to ever lead to this level of disruption. >> industry experts say it points to needs for upgrades to the system. lawmakers meanwhile, say they want more transparency. >> we can't look at this as some software glitch. this is a major problem. we can't have this again. >> all of it rubbing salt in the wounds of a traveling public recovering from a tumultuous holiday period. unlike that melt down. this time around, airlines will not be obligated to pay for hotels or meals. >> we have airbnb's booked, rental cars booked, and that's going to be a nightmare trying to get a refund. >> reporter: it is because the airlines are not obligated to pay any of those fees, this wasn't their problem. we know not just the main system went down, the back up system

went down and in a strange unrelated coincidence, canada's system also went down yesterday. we talked to the canadians, they say there is no link, just a strange coincidence. theirs went down for several hours as the united states was trying to get notam back up here. we're going to see delays continue to mount today, but nothing like yesterday. back to you. >> nbc's tom costello, thank you so much. let's bring in mike barnicle, msnbc contributor, and of course boston legend. member o. "new york times" editorial board, mara gay and executive editor, david rhode. i don't want to get anybody in trouble, the idle speculation i wallow in every day. >> i don't think willie wants to be involved in this. >> he doesn't, but he knows how to brush it away.

>> neil armstrong, walking on the moon, brush it away. he's very good at that. dunkin' donuts, brush it away. >> you okay? >> so yesterday the system goes out in the united states of america for the first time ever. steve rattner doesn't ever remember it going out, says it's never gone out. aviation experts say it's never gone out. well, that's like a thousand year flood, isn't it? we're having the thousand year flood at the same time canada is having a thousand year flood. their system goes out the same day. >> i think that's weird. >> i mean, i'm not saying it's a conspiracy, but i'm saying maybe we shouldn't just look at this and say, oh, well, it wasn't hacking or it wasn't somebody causing a problem with the systems. how could they both go out on the same day? >> well, as someone who was on the sound stage in burbank in

'69 when they were filming the moon landing, i can say with some authority, no, there were definitely skeptical looks around the table when tom was delivering that report that this coincidence happened. and by the way, they have said it was somebody opened an attachment or document or something went wrong technically, which i read did someone send you that attachment or document to take the system down. i'm not sure we have heard the end of this investigation. >> i agree with that. >> i agree with that, too, and also -- >> i think you should stop where you are. >> burbank, i want willie at some point i've asked reverend al to write his book on james brown at some point. at some point, you should talk about your nights out with kneel armstrong and buzz aldrin after the sound stage, oh, my god, they just put on mustaches and go outside, and you know, 90% of the audience have no idea what conspiracy theory we're talking about. it doesn't really matter. >> we made that one fatal

mistake, we had the flag blowing in the wind, but there's no wind on the moon. we regret that part. >> don't bring him along here. all right. let's get to our top story, as we are halfway into the second hour here of "morning joe." >> it's not a top story. this is our top hour, 25 after kind of story. >> calls for congressman george santos to resign from the house are growing, and not just from democrats. at least four house republicans from his home state of new york called for santos to step down yesterday. santos is the focus of several law enforcement investigations after he admitted to lying about his background, his finances and a potential fraud case dating to 2008 in brazil are also being looked into. santos has previously denied any criminal involvement. the wave of gop deannouncements came shortly after the nassau

county held a news conference calling on santos to resign. despite the pressure, he standing firm that he will not leave congress. >> will you step down? >> i will not. guys, you got to give us space. a little bit of space here. >> new york republicans are call ing you a disgrace. >> you will not resign. >> i'm trying to get in the elevators. excuse us. >> wow, house speaker kevin mccarthy reaffirmed his stance yesterday that he would not force santos to resign. >> the nassau county gop called on him to resign today, does that affect your thinking at all? what do you intend to do about congressman santos? >> i try to stick by the constitution. the voters elected him to serve. if there's a concern, he has to go through the ethics, we'll let it move through that. right now, the voters have a voice in the decision, not where people pick and choose not based on somebody's precedent. he will continue to serve. >> are you going to take action

against him. >> what are the charges against him? is there a charge against him? in america today, you're innocent until proven guilty. it's not me that can oversay what the voters say. the voters are the power. the voters made the decision. and he has a right to serve. if there is something that rises to the occasion that he did something wrong, then we'll deal with that at that time. >> you know, mike barnicle, i got to say, i haven't agreed with a lot of things kevin mccarthy said over the past decade or so, but in this case, the voters voted him in, and of course they should -- they have the right to not put him on committees. they have a right to do the sort of things they have done. >> the voters were lied to. >> right. the voters were lied to. i guess they could bring up impeachment proceedings against him as they have done with federal judges before, but a lot of this just rests still with

the voters, or if he committed a crime with the courts. >> well, first of all, i'm sort of offended and upset about the attacks on santos, after all, he is a medal of honor recipient. >> there you go. >> oh, god. >> did you also hear -- i didn't know this until last night, but he was one of the von trap children, actually in world war ii. he was the inspiration for the song "you are 16 going on 17,". >> he was frederick. >> i had no idea. >> we can talk this all morning long on george santos. >> this is a deeply troubled person. >> to your point, what would have been wrong with kevin mccarthy just looking into the camera and saying, listen, everyone here knows this guy is an embarrassment and we're trying to figure out what to do about him, but he's an embarrassment to congress, he certainly is an embarrassment to the constituency that under fraudulent purposes sent him to

the united states congress. we're going to deal with it quickly. why can't anybody speak like a human being? >> i don't know. >> you know, mara, the reason why kevin mccarthy can't is because he has a five-vote gap and not a 25 vote gap, and as we've seen with kevin mccarthy, situational ethics is too narrow a definition for how he lives. he's screaming on the floor on january 6th about how outraged he is by donald trump's actions and then he's taking boot polish down to mar-a-lago and shining his boots a week or two later. >> yeah, it's an ugly situation. but, you know, this is a seat that santos had actually flipped from the democrats, so the republicans know that if there's a special election, which i think it looks like ultimately there may be, depending on how these investigations unfold, the democrats in new york are going to have a pretty good shot of

taking back that seat. that's just not something that the house republicans want to see. but yet, the nassau republican party did come out yesterday and say we have been had, which was some small, i think, measure of truth in all of this. i mean, at the same time, it's like, you know, what job do you apply for where they just take everything that you say, you know, as you say it, and they don't call any references or take a look at your resume and maybe gut check that. you know, there's a lot that's missing in this political system and in this case, i guess it starts with the nassau republican party. but, you know, santos is not only an embarrassment to republicans, i think it's just really insulting to constituents who, again, as you said, mika, were lied to. he was elected under false pretenses. >> and willie, the question is who ran against this guy.

who ran against this guy in the primary. and what democrat ran against this guy? some of this information was out there, a local paper was writing about how he's fabulous, and you just wonder, that's usually how stuff like this gets, you know, they sniff this stuff out, they get it in their campaign literature. where were the democrats on this? where were santos' republican primary opponents on this? >> a lot of this is googling or calling a school. you mentioned the newspaper, the north shore leader to their credit, months and months ago, they told this story. i guess not enough of the voters heard it, it didn't get picked up. i want to point out, joe, that the new york tabloids have abandoned their usual clever headline writing, and saying get out to george santos. that's the headline, they're quoting the long island republican party there. a really strange line now has come out. santos said apparently that he was a decorated college volley

ballplayer. >> of course he was. >> this is not something i want to see. >> nassau republican committee chairman revealed santos told him he was a star volleyball player at barut college and he helped the team to win the league championship. >> told me specifically i'm into sports a little bit, that he was a star on the volleyball team and they won the league championship. what can i tell you? >> just the giggling behind him there. on his resume santos claimed to have graduated in 2010 with a 3.89 gpa, in that year, in 2009, the men's volleyball team did win the city of new york athletic conference championship according to the web site, but santos has since admitted he never attended barook college.

>> it pops up, does baruch college have a volleyball team, and they do. he's not lying that they have a good one. a solid team. he would not just suggest he was on the team but of course he was part of a championship winning team. but, david, we did see an element of republicans doing the right thing yesterday, right? there are not just the nassau county republican party but some of his fellow lawmakers from new york state, republicans have said, look, this guy has got to step aside, but as noted, mccarthy needs every vote he can get. how do you explain it? >> it's the same dynamic because of the narrow majority, and kevin mccarthy being speaker the fringe elements have enormous power, and you saw that in his battle to barely be elected speaker. you see that in the various investigations carrying out now. it's playing to this trumpian, far right base that performed.

and that strategy performed so badly in the midterm elections. i think this is a bad move for the party and long-term. i applaud nassau county. i applaud officials for getting up there and telling the story. i applaud them in the long-term. >> can i say that robert zimmerman who was santos' democratic opponent got very little help from the democratic party and this is yet another example of how the democrats really need to kind of do some soul searching about why they're not playing hard every place they can because more could have been done with robert zimmerman's campaign with that information, which was apparently very easy to find. although they do have a volleyball team. >> they do, a good one. >> and he's a great player, apparently. >> i got to tell you, i just honestly think that the republicans are playing with fire here. this person is deeply disturbed. his lies go beyond, you know, what you see regular republicans

these days, whatever that looks like, lying. he's been lying about his life, about his mother, about, you know, fantastical things. there's a problem here. >> right. >> and the fact that they're avoiding it is actually dangerous. >> certainly the republicans from his home area aren't avoiding it. other republican members of congress aren't avoiding it. there are a lot of people, a lot of republicans that have been calling for him to get out. right now, this is just a question of what's the process, how does it move forward, i suspect at some point he will look up. >> to your point of those acting responsibly. joining us now, republican congresswoman, nancy mace of south carolina. good to see you again. on this issue, what do you think can be done? do you think it is at all a strategy here just to let him in that seat and not to address the situation? >> i hope that's not the strategy.

number one, i love these new york republicans. what's not to love about them? they are calling it out, calling it like they see it. they are calling out their own colleague, george santos in this particular situation. it is a problem for us in congress. the american people, they don't trust anybody. they think all politicians lie, and there are good guys among us trying to do the right thing. he should resign, but obviously he won't. you saw in the clip earlier, he's smiling and almost giggling when the press gaggle is following him around. he's enjoying, loving, i would argue the attention he's getting right now. there are a couple of different processes to get someone out of congress like this, the first, the judiciary committee, having a resolution come to the floor. i don't see that happening right now. what you see are serious questions, possible criminal investigations if you're looking at his campaign expenses, there are some suspicion activity there. and then if you're look at a possible ethics investigations, we have an ethics committee.

i hope that he goes through the ringer here. he deserves due process, but he needs to get out, and i agree with the "new york post" and colleagues on both sides of the aisle on this one. >> by the way, nassau republicans, i found out firsthand from peter king can be pretty tough. he was a conservative and when he got mad at me, he told "the washington post," scarboro just walked out of a tent revival in the deep south barefoot so you don't need to listen to him. so i feel for you and other republicans that want to talk issues. it's one of the problems we had with newt gingrich, he would say these fiery things, and it would be on the front page of newspapers for a month or so. but we have been talking this morning about all of the distractions that are out there, and i know this has been a concern of yours. i know you want to talk about, you know, the cost of housing, the cost of gas, the cost of bread, the cost of other groceries, the cost of -- but so

many issues that matter, but it seems that for every issue, you want to talk about, there seems to be another distraction coming out and as i say on the show every day, it's as if my former party hasn't learned from the past election results. >> i would agree. i've said that all week. we have not learned from the midterm elections. we haven't learned post roe what really upsets and angers americans. i represent a swing district. when i came into congress two years ago, i won by one point. and when my district was redrawn last year, i got a point and a half better, not much of a margin, but i learned and figured out how as a conservative to reach across the aisle my first two years in office and deliver results and talk about issues that matter. the number one issue in the swing district i represent of course was inflation but the number two was abortion. it's an issue that republicans

didn't do very well on the summer after roe. racing to the fringes on either side of the aisle is not where about 90% of americans are. it's an issue that i care about deeply. i even had to run an ad about my own rape as a teenager because i wanted people to know. i want women to know i was going to find a way to balance women's rights and the right to life. i am pro life, but there's got to be a balance there, and so we have to be very vocal on issues that matter. inflation and abortion were the top to issues. i'm not the only swing district in the country. we have to deliver something both republicans and democrats alike can be on the same page. we have a divided congress. we've got to work together. >> i want to develop on that issue with that lesson, post roe in the midterms. what was the lesson learned about how many republican women and men care about this issue and feel differently than what was previously assumed and how

can you get the message to fellow republicans about how to deal with this? it is a critical issue and some that republicans campaign on on the other side of it. >> i'm pro life and the vast majority of people in my district didn't agree with roe being overturned. we held town hall after town hall talking about the common ground, i would ask my colleagues, show compassion to women, especially to rape victims or girls who are victims of incest. we've got to show love and compassion, even when we disagree, and not act like alpha hotel sometimes which is what we do on some of these issues, because we want to beat our chest and want the base to love us. i had two big elections this year, a primary, a big primary and a big general election that you can stay true to your principles and values, you can find middle ground and you can win big, and that's the lesson i learned that many of my colleagues haven't quite figured it out yet, and i'm very worried

about our agenda. i know that there are other swing district republicans that we want to stay in the majority, and we're going to have to be vocal sooner rather than later. we're going to have to come together and find a dozen of us who are going to put a stop to some of this when it happens. >> congresswoman, it's fascinating what happened in kansas, i think is one of the more remarkable election outcomes in quite some time. i never saw it coming. that was supposed to be a 50/50. and, you know, two things can be true at the same time, and you brought it up. there are a lot of people who are pro life who have identified as being pro life their entire life and at the same time, they don't think roe should have been overturned. david french, that reminds me, who has always been pro life said we can't allow courts to push this on the american people by judicial fiat, we're going to have to actually go out and start making the argument, making the pro life argument and

explaining what we're doing. and love you to comment on that, first of all, but secondly, i'd like you to comment on the fact of how much damage the examples, for instance, of what we saw the 10-year-old girl raped in ohio that had to flee the state, the michigan gubernatorial candidate saying a 14-year-old girl being raped by her uncle was a perfect reason why there can't be exceptions. can you talk about how shrill and out of touch that is, not just with swing voters but republican voters in your district? >> right. well, now just this week, i believe it was the governor of alabama said women should be thrown in prison if they take an abortion pill. so plan b is something that 90% of americans support. women shouldn't be thrown in prison, neither should the doctor. one thing i have been harping on this week and for months now, if we're going to get serious about saving lives, serious about

that, we have to have legislation that will pass a democrat controlled senate and republican controlled house. one of the things we could do right now is giving women access to birth control. if you want to get serious about saving lives and protecting women's rights, every woman should have access to birth control. in south carolina, we have entire counties in rural areas that don't have a single ob/gyn doctor. if we want to get serious about saving lives, let's get serious about. that's something people on both sides of the aisle can get championed about, and passed into law by the president of the united states. we're racing to the fringes. i have a colleague in the house right now that wants to bring a bill to the floor that bans abortions with no exceptions. what are we doing here. that's not where 90% of the country is. especially republicans. i polled the issue over and over and over again, and i would argue the vast majority not just in my district but across the state of south carolina, they agree with us on this one. >> so congresswoman, the fringes and that extremism you're

talking about, they're certainly playing into the outcome of the midterm elections a couple of months ago where the house was much closer than i know a liked and the democrats picked up a seat in the senate. with some distance now, how do you assess what happened, and what needs to change inside your party to broaden its appeal? do you think, for example, your party needs to untether itself from donald trump? >> well, i would argue, and there were even seats in colorado, for example, where it was very close. we had an r plus 9 seat where the person won by about 500 votes. we have a messaging issue and messaging on issues. inflation is the number ones issue across the aisle. people are worried about the cost of everything as joe mentioned earlier. that is something we have to address without harming social security. that is a message we have to get across. i have a bill called the penny plan that rand paul does every cycle in the senate. i do the house companion bill. it balances the budget in ten years without touching social

security. we've got to have the right message on economic issues because republicans and democrats alike, they both have problems with deficit spending and running it up, and have caused inflation to happen. number one. number two, most people are fiscally conservative, they tend to be socially moderate. we have to have a message for women that agree and disagree with roe. that's an important issue this summer, i saw it over and over again. women would show up angry about it and wanted to know what the plan was. we have to have a plan that was grounded, that is middle of the road, and brings both sides together. it is a very important issue. crime and immigration is another place where, you know, we have to figure that out. securing the border. but at the same time, you know, we have a lot of jobs that are needed. what are we going to do to fix the visa issues, which by and large would fix immigration, if we could discuss the policy about it. raising caps that are arbitrarily low, when we have a

lot of jobs that people could do here and go back home after nine months. we have to talk about real communities. we're distracted by last week, the agenda this week, we're distracted by george santos. we can't get to the meat of the problems our country is facing right now. and if that continues we're going to have a very difficult time two years from now, and you're going to hear me, my voice, i'll be loud and strong about the issues that matter in my state and my country because it's just too important to ignore. >> and do you think to the second part of my question, congresswoman, at this point, in 2023 that donald trump is a net positive or a net negative for your party? >> i hope when it comes to presidential politics that we have a very large, wide and deep presidential candidate field. i want to see us, whomever our nominee is look towards the future and not towards the past. that hurt us in the midterm elections and we've got to have someone that can bring together conservatives, independents, left of center and right of center and if we don't have that in our nominee in '24, we're going to lose the white house,

we might even lose the u.s. house. >> congresswoman, can i broaden this out to your position in the party. you say you want to carry on being a loud voice but you're a pretty lonely voice on issues like this. you were the only republican congresswoman speaking about the abortion bill in the context of the american people, and raising criticism, and george santos what you think should happen to him. what's your relationship with leaders and members of congress? i'm sure there are other people in swing districts, diminishing number of swing districts but there are republicans in swing districts who believe similar to yourself, but they're not speaking up. what are your conversations with them? would you urge them to speak up more? how do you feel about your position in the party at the moment? >> well, i often joke but i am serious about it, i'm sort of a caucus of one. i ran on that. i promised to march to the beat of my own drum and be an independent voice when i ran in

2020 and my reelection in 2022. that's on brand with who i am. they want someone who's going to work hard and deliver results, be fiscally conservative, socially moderate. that's my district. i can't speak for others. i do know i hear from many members of congress who share the same concerns that i have. i just happen to be more vocal. i tend to fight a little bit louder, but i also have a great relationship with leadership. there's an open door policy. sometimes i'm called to the principal's office or the vice principal's office but there's an open there, and i talk to them frequently when i do have concerns or issues. and they always welcome -- right now they've always welcomed my ideas from that perspective, and i appreciate that. i think they understand that, you know, i'm going to be an independent voice, and they respect me for it. i don't get in a lot of trouble but sometimes i do, and that's important for me to be able to go to my leadership and go to my colleagues and say this is

wrong. what do you all think about this? and so there is a lot of internal feedback and going back and forth. there are a lot of conversations, and i will tell you, by and large, this is true for republicans and democrats alike, people are being afraid of being primaried. people are afraid of their base. that's not where the majority of people are. i can't represent just one side. i have to represent republicans, independents and democrats, which are almost a third, a third, a third, in my district, and i want to be a strong voice for everybody and not just one side or the other because it's important to my district and my state. >> republican congresswoman nancy mace of south carolina. thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. david rhode, i wanted to go to you on the issue of abortion. it is still so shocking the way this election turned. when you looked at -- i say

what's shocking is again i keep going back to the elise jordan focus groups. >> yeah. >> in atlanta. there is a guy who was as aggressively trumpist as you could be. he bought into the conspiracy theories, the stolen election. elise would ask one question after another. and then she asked him about abortion. are you pro-life? do you agree with roe being overturned. he said i'm a man. i have no say in this. it was striking and then we had kansas. and then the polls that say abortion wouldn't be that big of an issue. it was a massive issue. i go back to the kansas referendum.

maybe like prop 13 in california in 1978. a harbinger of things to come. >> i agree. women want control of their bodies. i think there's an exhaustion in the country with the extremism. given the results of the midterms that the far right of the republican party dominates the house, dictating the first two bills to vote on against abortion rights. that's the message to the electorate that voted for moderates. in the long term it is progress. there's a desire for santi but the republican party doesn't seem to be catching up with it. >> mara, it seems like when roe was overturned americans had a severe reaction to it, maybe some who didn't think about the

issue much and thought taking rights away of 50 years, there was a reaction to it that was multi-fold. republicans have been using abortion as an issue to motivate the base for decades. i think largely democrats haven't been paying enough attention to that so this is a wake-up call. still stuns me at 36 i grew up with more rights than my goddaughter who's 5 has today is stunning. so when you think about it from that perspective that's the sleeping giant that's been awakened why it is women and others across america saying wait a second. we won't take people's rights away. that's not what democracy is

supposed to be about. that's not progress or health care. i think that is the majority of the country but the problem in part because of redistricting and partisanship we have a republican party that's animated not by the majority of americans but by the very activist base and we continue to see that after the losses in the midterm way worse than what republicans expected. you have enough republicans whose base is motivated by anti-abortion politics that that's the conflict that we see politically i think. >> all right. mara gay and david rode, thank you both for being on this morning. coming up, a live report from california as parts of the state are submerged by

devastating rainfall. the latest of a string of investigations by house republicans as the new majority targets members of the biden family. we'll have details on a new inquiry into their finances. that's ahead on "morning joe."

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>> reporter: he collapsed on the field ten days ago suffering cardiac arrest, transferred from a hospital in cincinnati to a buffalo facility on monday after being healthy enough to watch and celebrate the team's victory sunday against the patriots. >> he jumped up and down. >> reporter: the bills now say he went through a comprehensive medical evaluation including cardiac, neurological and vascular testing. >> it's a blessing. he's fought and he's continuing to win. you know? there's no place that he would rather be than in his own bed. >> reporter: as to when to return to the team facility -- >> the health is first and foremost on our minds and then welcome him back as he feels ready. >> reporter: meantime the outpouring of supporter is growing. an online community toy drive in

his name raised a staggering $8.7 million. days ago thanking supporters saying the same love you show me is what i plan to put back into the world. his teammates eager for a visit. >> i know some guys were chomping at the bit to go see him but against doctors' orders to get the rest and recovery and taking it slow and trying to get back to being himself. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez reporting. we just cannot say it enough. with him laying on the field receiving cpr for nearly ten minutes. he is back and home and ready to watch the team play on sunday is just staggering and thank god for it. >> it is a miracle. it really is. it's a fun story to cover at

this point and what seemed so unbelievably hopeless. one minute past the top of the hour on this thursday. >> sports really quick. we have mike barnacle and jonathan lemire. one association game with them. >> oh no. not with mike. >> red sox. >> tragic. >> jonathan lemire, red sox. >> disheartening. >> dishearteningly tragic. you have insights on the secret plan? >> the facts of the team as you look at the roster as it is comprised right now today here in the middle of january is a 90-93 loss club and currently

the worst club in the division. orioles are better than the boston red sox. that is the truth and sad to say it. >> gaping holes at shortstop, second bass. could use every catcher and another bat. that's not even the pitching rotation put together with fled and duct tape. shaky bullpen. yeah. they're definitely -- >> a free agent signing, joe, kenly. he is a great closer. who will get to him in the ninth inning? >> 38 years old? >> the rest of them are. >> i think they're all 38. >> okay. so yesterday we told you about house republicans creating a new select subcommittee to

investigate the so-called weaponization of the federal government. now the new gop majority is starting to gather information ahead of inquiries into president biden and his family. chair of the house oversight committee comber sent a letter to janet yellen requesting the financial records of several members within the biden family and companies connected to them. the request was something that house republicans had been unsuccessful obtaining while in the minority. now they can insist on treasury secretary yellen's cooperation. the letter targets the president's son hunter and brother james. >> this is, mike barnacle, again opening move. for people that talked about how democrats were distracted and never talked about inflation and

never talk about the economy, never talk about other things that americans care about, you look at the things that these house republicans are focusing on and again they're setting themselves up for being seen as a radical party out of touch. >> still serving donald trump. >> what americans think about radical abortion bills. we know where this leads to yet another loss in '24. when will they learn? >> we had an interesting conversation with nancy mace from south carolina. i would submit the interests are the priority interests of almost every american in every district. inflation, cost of living, medicare, schools, crime. yet a chosen few appointed by

kevin mccarthy leading the republican party's charge into 2023 are focused on hunter biden, weaponizing -- attack against the fbi and intelligence services of this country and submit they are out of touch with the reasoning and the lives of most american people in every congressional district. >> they have also seen what it looks like when you go out to the president's remaining son. it hasn't ended well in the past. not sure what the strategy about it feels like the hand of donald trump and vindictiveness and serving to donald trump and then listen to nancy mace and think what you may but you listen to how she wants to represent

moving forward and the comment to you i believe about wanting nominees that represent the future and not the past so they could win and not lose. >> look. she said the two things that people are interested in her district are inflation and abortion. nowhere in the midterm polling did i see polling to suggest investigations into hunter biden or the biden administration are issues that the american public care about. they did not register. but for republicans they feel if they push ahead, partly to appease donald trump but also that they think if they carry on like this eventually that it will damage joe biden in the

2024 election. >> all right. we're going to put that on pause for a moment and move to a major development in ukraine where russia has replaced the general in charge of the war. russian president vladimir putin has replaced the commander leading the forces in craw three months after handing him the job. it was labeled a significant development that was a quote indicator of the increasing seriousness of the situation russia is facing and that the campaign is falling short of the goals. "the new york times" notes that analysts call the change a far cry from the radical overhaul they need to become more effective. joining the conversation we have editor of "the washington post" david ignacius. retired four star general james

stavridis. pentagon correspondent helen cooper. president of foreign relations richard haas. >> david, we hear -- we continue to be in this situation where bad news for russia is good news for our allies. is vladimir putin is a rational actor? if he is pushed into a corner ab losing, does that put the world a step closer to possible use of nuclear weapons? >> so, joe, down the road if the russian lives were cracking and had a break through like in kharkiv or kherson in the south there is a fear that the russians respond to the break-up

of the forces by escalating with nuclear weapons perhaps. this is a war of attrition. the russians moving a little bit forward. the move toen stall a new commander, the chief of staff of the russian military, is interesting. a sign of how much the russians have been treading water. why are they doing this? they want better order and structure in the military. they had feuding with the people running the militia. wagner group feuding with other commanders. i think they have dreams to push the line back and move towards kyiv. that's the way i read that. if you see a sudden ukraine

breakthrough that's the moment that you should think my gosh the russians will turn to tactical nuclear weapons but doesn't appear to be the situation now. >> we always talk about 19 -- always talk about the cuban missile crisis and this is actually happened before where the united states and the soviet union almost fought a nuclear weapon in 1973 over syria and backed away from that. but in this case we're not talking about israeli advances in the middle east. we are talking about what vladimir putin may consider an existential threat not only to his leadership and his life, but also, to russia itself. >> two things ought to give us

pause. these are core russian interest. syria was not. ukraine is. if you read what putin says he sees it as part of russia. secondly, unlike years like 1972, russia is de-institutionalized. you don't have collective leadership. so what we don't know if any confidence is if a desperate putin is pushed or worried that catastrophic losses lead to domestic challenge at home what he might want and able to do. you don't want to be paralyzed by it. you don't want to reward nuclear threats. i think it is the dilemma facing the administration they can't dismiss that possibility.

>> the ukrainian military said they fight for every inch of their homeland. russians showing progress with some help from the wagner group, group of mercenaries. i know there's growing concern that the ukrainians are bogged down there and western officials fear that's a battle for a city that doesn't matter too much and taking too much of the ukrainian forces. you cover this so closely at the pentagon. what are you hearing how they feel the war is going and are they concerned to what david said about russia mounting forces for a lunge at kyiv. >> yeah, hi. there is some concern that russia is interested in another

offensive. but there's strategyizing of what ukraine can do. ukraine is on the offense and easier to play offense than to play defense. ukraine is trying to get that territory that russia took so that's part of why it becomes a little bit harder for ukraine opposed to just protecting the territory. they are trying to seize back territory so that's part of what you are seeing right now. but it's been -- this war has continued -- continues to confound us. >> yeah. >> the decision by vladimir putin to put garosamov in charge is a flum oxed. it is the equivalent of mark milley in charge of the

afghanistan war. it is not something you do if you're going well. the general who's been moved by general putin and demoted essentially is -- you remember when russian forces were moving south and were leaving kherson he is the guy in the televised address saying to the russian defense minister we sort of lost kherson staged to protect vladimir putin from the sign of failure so he sort of took that hit and now he is gone as david said. this is what? the fourth time they changed the head of the ukrainian war effort there in just a year. that is astounding. so we are seeing is not signs of russia success. we see continued signs of

russian failure and gets back to when does russia get desperate enough. >> new polling shows republicans increasingly turning against sending money to ukraine. latest cbs news/ugov poll shows a slight majority of republicans want the member of congress to oppose ukraine funding but as an analysis in "the washington post" notes quote saying we should do less is not the same as saying we should do nothing. the post continues, quote, what the polls have shown is more pessimism among republicans about ukraine's ability to win the war. and more desire to make concessions to russia in the name of ending it. the paper goes on to note we have seen how the noisier wing of the party gets what it wants.

opposed the ukraine funding. >> a grey concern that some isolationists in american firsters now -- >> a long, dragged out war. >> increasingly powerful positions inside the house republican caucus. swaying some members of the party's base. >> indeed. it is not just on the right. there's a little bit of cracking going on on the left side of the equation as people simply look at the numbers. they do the math. this is expensive. on the other hand the point if you look back in history it informs us, it tells us that the worst thing to do is simply walk away. we tried that in the 1920s.

we walked away from europe after the flawed peace agreement at the end of world war i and we came home to america. that's where the terms america first come from. how did that work out? we cracked the global economy with the great depression and drop a plum line to fascism and the nazis sweeping across the continent. we don't want that. we can afford for that not to happen. we say winter is coming. spring is coming. you see more and more u.s. assets into the battlefield alongside nato assets. tanks in particular i think make a significant difference in the land war. at the same time better air defenses with a second war in the skies. here there's a lot of danger ahead and difficulties.

i like the ukrainians' chances as the spring comes on. >> richard, after one year of warfare, a country virtually destroyed, ukraine, enormous expenditure of money and a russian army that's weak. and yet people in the house of representatives and the united states senate some indicate to back off a bit. stop spending. let the ukraines fly on their own. can we afford to lose ukraine? >> no. i don't think there's a risk in that, mike. i think the bigger question underneath the conversation we see in the foreign policy community on the left, the right, what does winning mean? what has to happen in order to declare this a victory?

what should be u.s. war aims? do we sign on to the idea that ukraine has to reclaim every square inch of territory going back eight years ago? war crimes accounted for? seize russian assets to rebuild ukraine? there's a big debate going on about what constitutes victim victory. a viable ukraine is a reality. how much more? not saying that's right. just saying that's the debate. i think that's what we will have to see. i don't believe that ukraine is likely to be in a position any time soon if ever to dislodge russia entirely from the country so if we end up with a stalemate of one sort or another then what? what is it we push for? what can you try to bring in diplomatically? i think that conversation is

going to intrude increasingly. >> thank you all very much for the conversation this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," a federal judge rules prosecutors can use former president trump's infamous stand back and stand by comments in a trial against proud boys members. we'll talk about the significance of that decision. plus, new inflation data. stephanie ruhle and andrew ross sorkin will join us to break down the numbers for the u.s. economy. you are watching "morning joe."

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new report in "the washington post" says officials with former president trump's presidential campaign hit with a

new subpoena last month asking for information about the lead-up to january 6 and related to fund raising part of the justice department's extensive investigation into january 6 according to a copy reviewed by "the washington post." the subpoena seeks more than two dozen categories of information and includes questions that were not part of similar subpoenas reviewed by the post sent in september, specifically the subpoena demands documents about the january 6 rally on the ellipse, including fund raising and planning along with coordination with any outside groups and seeks information related to other trump affiliated groups, including the make america great again pac and seeks any communications or information about dominion and smartmatic machines.

nbc news has not reviewed the subpoena. joining us now former u.s. attorney barbara mcquaid. barbara, what do you make of this new information? >> i see it as a good news/bad news situation those seeking to hold former president trump and allies accountable. appears they will looking into who paid legal fees for these allies. asking questions about communications regarding the dominion voting machines which could suggest looking for evidence for a conspiracy to defraud the united states. that could be evidence of fraud and looking into organizations that were fund raising off this stop the steal which is maybe looking into what congress wol

lofgren referred to as the big rip-off. only now asking for the documents? it seems there's quite a bit of investigation left to go if they request the documents to review them, analyze them and interview or call to the grand jury the witnesses they could be asking questions about the things and makes it appear to me the indictment is many weeks if not months away. >> katty kay, there are people, including myself on january 7 saying donald trump should be investigated by the doj for conspiracy to commit sedition. and the further away from it the more evidence and the timeline to see, if this guy were not a former president there is no doubt the doj would have rolled him up into the investigation and charged him.

i'm struck as is barbara by how long it's taken them to ask for some of the basic material. i don't know how they continue charging people and sentencing people part of donald trump's riots who said they were inspired by donald trump without eventually having the doj indict donald trump for conspiracy to commit sedition against the united states government. >> you echo the frustration i have heard from democrats about merrick gar garland in particular arne why they are so cautious over this. the defenders say he moves carefully. doesn't want to present charges that then not able to be followed through with arne result in a guilty charge and

why he is getting the ducks in a row but you are right. we are over two years now. watched what happened in brazil and still there haven't been charges against him in particular so i think -- you can only assume that garland is okaying for whatever reasons. maybe the midterm elections slowed down the process but now democrats are hoping that this moves with more speed. >> while that justice department investigation continues these cases against people at the capitol go on. potentially key development against proud boy leaders charged with seditious conspiracy a federal judge ruled yesterday prosecutors can use this video of then former president trump during trial. >> what do you want to call them? give me a name.

>> white supremacists. proud boys. >> proud boys, stand back and stand by. somebody's got to do something about the left and antifa. this is a left wing problem. >> that's the infamous moment when donald trump made the stand back and stand by comment. district judge kelly said it showed a motive. prosecutors and proud boys members said they were celebrated and used as a recruiting tool. five members on trial to attack the capitol on january 6. we know it from testimony that the proud boys took that moment on that stage as a signal get

ready. >> we have seen that video. it is galling each time that he cannot condemn the groups. we know from that you canning to people around him that he upd that the far right groups, hate groups are supporters. a lot of them. we saw what they did and the role played on january 6. barbara, we know the context but now legally significant is it that the comments uttered by trump in that debate with joe biden in 2020 can now be used in the seditious conspiracy trials? >> i think it's significant in the case against the proud boys because that was a signal for them that began some of their recruiting and was a unifying cause. that was part of the conspiracy and what prosecutors have to prove an agreement to do the attack. that was something that ignited

the recruiting, the communication, the travel to washington. whether it is used against donald trump reminds me of the statement saying, russia, if you are listening, we are looking for hillary clinton's emails. so making a random comment even igniting to a particular group probably is not enough for a conspiracy standing alone. if there's evidence that others, some people seen with some of the seditious conspirators and tie them to the agreement to attack the capitol then that's a possible way to draw trump and allies into the seditious conspiracy. the other crime is inciting insurrection. lighting the match that caused people to attack. because the supreme court

provides so much protection for political speech i don't know if that gets you there but the committee includes in the recommended charge assisting insurrection with the tweet that occurred after the attack had started saying mike pence didn't have the courage to do what was necessary and the united states demands the truth. that put fuel on the fire and i think could be a basis for assisting. a live on california's record setting storms. a year's worth of rainfall in two weeks. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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planes are back up in the air this morning after yesterday's faa system outage grounded all u.s. flights for several hours. the faa tweeted we are

continuing a thorough review to determine the root cause of the notice to air mission system outage. our preliminary work traced the outage to a damaged database file. at this time, there is no evidence of a cyber attack. according to a senior government official that damaged database file affected the primary and backup systems. the notice to air mission system sends pilots information they need to fly separate from air traffic control that keeps planes a safe distance from one another. transportation secretary buttigieg directed a process saying in a tweet the faa is continuing the system review and will continue the work to further pinpoint the sources of this issue and steps to prevent it from occurring again. the outage delayed more than 10,000 flights and more than

1,000 canceled across the country. joining is jeff. it's good to have you on the show this morning. so what are the different domino effects of this outage that impacts the -- from travelers to airlines? >> good morning. this is clearly a breakdown across the system. as you said more than 10,000 flights delayed. it is leading to an american public that can't count on the reliability of the system. the faa does a great job with the airlines to keep the system safe. there's a way to have the safety we do and have people count on the experience. in 2022 more than -- of all flights delayed or canceled.

it is unacceptable. >> a thing you were saying yesterday is that so much of the technology we rely on and the air traffic control system designed in the 1960s and '70s and not upgraded or overhauled significant. can you describe what needs to happen? >> yeah. i think across the airline system we are using antiquated technology. in the cars with gps is better than the faa and complicated factors explain it but we haven't had the desire to build a best in class. we accept the inefficiencies. years ago we accepted long security lines and said we'll deal with it and then we saw pre-check and mover people through seamlessly.

i think what we need is a public that's less toll rantd, more demanding of a system that's a heck of a lot efficient and faa less worried about petty fines and more concerned about the bottom of the technologies. these are the underlying issues to be addressed. >> no one is suggesting there's anything nefarious of what happened yesterday but the weaknesses highlighted does it lead to concerns in your mind that somebody could exploit those faults in the system to launch an attack against the industry? >> i think we all know from a cyber security standpoint there are people trying to attack systems every day and the airline industry and the faa keep the nefarious actors away. the thing to count on is the

safety of the system. we all fly weekly. we see what's going on. what it isn't doing is necessarily giving confidence to do it efficiently. the question is how to balance that safety and maintain that safety with the efficiency that we demand? i'm confident on the safety side. we have work to do on the efficiency. >> jeff freeman, thank you so much. coming up, a candidate for u.s. senate in california, congresswoman katie porter joins the conversation, why she decided to run for a seat held by another democrat. the suspect in the killing of four college students will be in court today. we will have a live report on the key information that led to his arrest.

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welcome back to "morning joe." we have exciting news on who is coming the force 30-50 summit in abu dhabi eight weeks ago and too many for the release of the second annual 50 over 50 list asia. spotlighting incredible women having the greatest impact well after the age of 50. the lists went global. we'll get to that in a moment. joining us now uma habadeen and maggie mcgrath. good to have you both. we have already announced some of the incredible headliners coming to abu dhabi in eight weeks. hillary clinton, gloria sty them, malala, katherine o'hara and now we have more news on

who's going to be there. starting with this woman. >> 2023 has kicked off to be a very exciting time for those of us planning the summit. we are so excited. yara shahidi, actress and activist is joining us on the main stage in abu dhabi. we know her from her role in first "black-ish" and then "grown-ish." i don't know how she was a full-time college student and actress. she now has a production company with her mother, an online mentoring program called yara's club and the fact she is coming and sharing both her experience and also sharing her thoughts and views for the few which you shall with a lot that she continues to be doing. >> along with her we have a list of new guests this year. misty copeland is coming?

>> she has single handed changed the face of ballet. >> so great. >> at the american ballet theater. such an incredible role model saying the goal is giving back. >> and paulina porizkova. her book "no filter." an accidental former supermodel and writer and such a compelling speaker last year. we can't wait to hear more. and lots of excitement with her returning this year. >> finally, suneera -- >> i take a personal point of pride to mention suneera madhani. the youngest pakistani american

founder of a company that has a billion-dollar valuation, a payment processing company. i am so excited about this young woman who built a company, had this idea, took it to her -- she was work toing in another fintech company, took the idea to her bosses and didn't get anywhere, and so went out and started this company on her own. it was a vision. she built a family while she was building this company. she is so -- done such an amazing job already giving back. she's started a school where she teaches other young women, in particular people of color. i love she says she doesn't want to be the exception as a woman of color in the fintech space starting a new business. she wants to become the norm. can't wait to hear what she has to say in abu dhabi. >> and these stories are cross generational, cross-cultural connections that we'll be making

at the 30/50 summit. that's what it's all about. >> indeed it is. i find that all of these women are living this mission personally and professionally. huma mentioned the ceo school. i love that. suneera started that in 2020 before we started the summit. misty copeland has broken barriers through dancing but she's paying it forward through writing and activism. i think what will happen when we bring all these women under the same roof to network with each other and share their knowledge with our audience is nothing short of magical. >> to register for the summit with forbes and know your value, go to forbes.com and get all the information. i want to quickly get to our ash list, maggie. this is the second annual 50 over 50 asia. and our honorees are incredible. they are from 15 different countries and territories, working across 28 different sectors. let's start with doris suh, who is 61. >> she is the ceo of global

wafers. it is one of the world's largest producers of silicon wafers. those are the materials that go into semiconductors, that power all of our electronics. she's been leading the company since she turned 50, and she is a rarity in her industry, i mean, globally, whether you look in the u.s. or asia-pacific or europe. women count for less than 10% of executives in semiconductor companies. but she's leading at scale. her company is worth $6 billion. and in june of last year she announced a $5 billion investment in a plant that will open in texas and employ 1,500 people. >> let's get one more in, ivy. a 56-year-old billionaire, fan daidi. tell us about her. >> a new billionaire. she's a scientist at heart and co-founded her company, and think of it as beauty meets biotech. she studies and researches collagen. and she has taken her scientific research, poured it into the products of this company, which

drive hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue, and then in november, just a few months ago, her company had a $500 million ipo on the hong kong stock exchange and that made her a billionaire at 56. >> you can read so much more about these incredible women and see who else made the list at forbes.com and knowyourvalue.com. and that's also where you can get all the information you need to attend the 30/50 summit with forbes and know your value. we will see you there. maggie and huma, thank you so much for being on. we'll talk to you again soon. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe."

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welcome back to the 1940s -- fourth hour of "morning joe." it is about 6:00 a.m. in the morning in los angeles, and on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. a lot to get to including the breaking economic news that found inflation slowed to 6.5% in december in line with expectations from economists. also ahead, we'll get a live report from california where a series of massive storms claimed at least 18 lives so far. and another series of storms is headed that way. plus, the suspect in the murder of four university of idaho students set to make a second court appearance today. we'll get a live report from the

courthouse in moscow, idaho. and in just a moment, we'll be joined by democratic congresswoman katie porter, who just picked up a major endorsement in her bid for u.s. senate. but willie, take the top story. >> let's begin with the apparent technical glitch, what it's being calls do far, the alleged chaos at the nation's airports. yesterday morning we covered in real time when the critical software used by the faa went down, leading to thousands of delays and cancellations. tom costello has the latest on what exactly went wrong and the ripple effects still playing out this morning. >>. >> reporter: at airports across the country this morning, all systems are go, even though some passengers are still struggling with the domino effects of yet another turbulent day for air travel. the faa now says a corrupted software file led to the largest ground stop of flights since

9/11 just before we came on the air wednesday. >> we have a major outage, breaking news from the faa. >> this is a big story right now. >> the faa has grounded all american flights. >> reporter: that software shutdown led to a two-hour halt on the tarmac and then 9,000 delays and nearly 3,000 cancellations through the day. the faa says the notam, or notice to air missions system, went down. it relays essential safety information to pilots on everything from runway closures to construction, military, and space activities. >> it provides the pilots with the most up-to-date information on things that are not normal, and airline pilots are required to have it. >> reporter: as the agency worked to bring it back online, morning travelers, especially with connections, found themselves stuck and scrambling. >> coming to the airport and everything going smoothly, and today that didn't happen. >> reporter: government sources tell nbc news issues started

developing tuesday, prompting the faa to reboot the system. >> this is an incredibly complex system, so complications happen all the time, but we can't allow them to ever lead to this level of disruption. >> reporter: industry experts say it points to the needs for upgrades to the system. lawmakers want more transparency. >> you can't look at this as a software glitch. this is a major problem. we can't have this again. >> reporter: all of it rubbing salt in the wounds of a traveling public still recovering from a tumultuous holiday troubling period, but unlike that meltdown, this time around airlines will not be obligated to pay for hotels or meals. >> we have airbnbs booked, and it will be a nightmare. >> tom reported last hour that canada's notam system went down as well. >> so weird. >> which is odd. these thing wes heard yesterday

from experts and from commercial pilots they never heard of happening to both the united states and canada on the same day. >> yeah. >> yeah. okay. we need need some answers. let's turn to the breaking economic news, the metric that measures inflation, the consumer price index, fell 0.1% percentage point in december in line with expectations from economists that it would put the inflation rate at 6.5% from this time last year. let's bring in nbc news senior business analyst and the host of "the 11th hour" on msnbc, stephanie ruhle joins us this morning. >> stephanie, lowest number in a year. i'm sure some people on wall street are going to be celebrating today because just may mean the fed may not have to jack up interest rates too much more. what's your take on it? >> well, just that, the fed might not have to raise interest rates as much as they have been,

but just for everyday consumers out there, there is good news. remember where we were last summer. what was one of the biggest drivers? gas prices, gas prices. they steadily are going down. they're now three cents lower than where they were last year. food prices are still really expensive. ask anybody who's going to the store. just this weekend i experienced that $8 head of cauliflower. but food prices are starting to slow a bit. the thing that's sticking out there that's still really expensive is housing. rent prices continue to be very expensive and at the end of the day you need shelter. >> housing, cars, used cars, all the way down to the price of eggs. so i guess the question is we've seen the supply chain is back to normal. at what point are economists, at what point are people on wall street expecting things to level out a bit? >> well, more and more people

are saying that. even those who thought we were headed for a very, very hard landing, a really tough recessionary environment, even those who think we could still be heading into a recession, there's less panic out there. we're not moving in the right direction as fast as many would like, but the trends are going in the right way. >> yeah, so let me follow up on that because it's interesting, i don't know when it was, and i don't know at what point who talked to whom and when it started reverberating around wall street, the most influential people, but one day we were talking about the possibility of a soft landing somewhere near the end of december. you know, started talking about oh, it's going to be a hard land ing we're going to have a horrible recession. what are your thoughts? how do you think it's going to end up? what are you hearing? >> listen, i did leave my crystal ball at home, but what

we really have, joe, is a complicated economy. you know this. a labor shortage before covid. we have a labor shortage now. we still are working out the kinks around the supply chain. there's still a chip shortage out there. things are getting better over time. there are all sorts of companies that are putting in place layoffs, but we do still have a strong labor picture. we were talking about it a week ago. for every unemployed person out there, there is almost two open jobs. so things are okay. they are not great, but they're not this disaster picture that many thought we would be into. >> we want to hear more about the $8 cauliflower in just a moment. but we have andrew ross sorkin with us from cnbc. what do you make of this number as it crosses inflation down to 6.5% in december? >> i think i'm with steph. this is actually not a terrible number, not a great number, and the truth is it's a lagging number, meaning we're looking at numbers that are old, and the

likelihood is that that number would be worse today. but, again, you know, we keep talking about sort of what is a good number. part of it is what's a number that the federal reserve looks at and says, okay, i'm not going to continue raising interest rates because i'm worried about the economy. i use this word all the time, it's perverse. you want the number to be good but not too good, but you don't want it to be too bad. if it's too bad, then you're really in trouble. so this is i don't want to say goldilocks, but this is what was expected. the markets aren't moving materially at this point, marginally on the futures, but we'll see. joe was trying to pinpoint the smart money and the hedge fund land, and it was this fall, decided it would be terrible, terrible, terrible, and people are bringing their earnings numbers down. one of the big questions for corporations is, do you throw everything into the kitchen sink

now? bring your earnings numbers down because that would give you a runway later in the year and therefore your numbers would look better. that also may be happening right now. we're seeing numbers come down now, but hard to know what that means six months from now. >> andrew, we'll hear from president biden in about an hour's time on this, on inflation, on the state of the economy. but certainly what people really want to hear is from jerome powell in a few weeks, the last inflation report we get before the next federal reserve meeting. i don't know if you have your crystal ball there. >> no. >> but what is your sense as to how this will be received? you mentioned marginal movement on wall street. there's wall street, corporate america, the fed. what do you think? >> right. well, the big question is how do you look at something like cpi, which is, you know, an index of what people are paying for things, versus the employment picture, and we're still -- we're down 3.5% unemployment in this country.

and one of the things you've heard jerome powell say is in an odd way he needs to make that number worse. he needs there to be more unemployment in this country, right? so to the degree you think he'll be focused on that, that might not be such a great thing in the immediate term, meaning he's going to continue to raise interest rates. if he looks at this data and, again, it's lagging, that piece of it lag, and also is the employment picture lagging, maybe he says, okay, things actually are not as good as we think and maybe not as good is actually good because therefore he doesn't have to raise rates. >> andrew, thank you. >> it's complicated. i'm sorry. >> it's okay. it is. you're doing good. stephanie, before you go, you have news this morning on the disgraced ceo of ftx. we're hearing from him. what can you tell us? >> sam bankman-fried putting out a statement this morning from his parents' house in palo alto. of course he was released on

bail just about two weeks ago. what we've heard from him, andrew knows this, he interviewed him last month, we've been hearing i screwed up, i'm sorry, i messed up. we're seeing a bit of a turn where he's blaming others. he's saying if i were still given the opportunity to run the company, i could have lined up financing. it was just that the market was bad, things would come back. but he's clearly saying i didn't steal billions of dollars, i'm not hiding billions of dollars away, and he's starting to accuse the head of binance, a crypto company. he's putting out this over twitter, which is amazing, a guy who's facing criminal, civil charges, as well as a class action suit, sitting there waiting for this massive trial, knowing that he's got two of his closest professional colleagues who have now turned on him, they're working with the state. he's starting to change public

opinion of him because be honest, there's few people out there with the exception of his mother and father that have a good opinion of this guy right now. >> stephanie ruhle, thank you very much. we will be watching "the 11th hour" weeknights on msnbc. thanks very much. and cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you as well. a strike by nurses at two of new york city's largest hospitals is over. the montefiorery medical center andt. sinai hospital have reached tentative agreements with the new york state nurses association. more than 7,000 nurses participated in the walk autothat began on monday demanding salary increases and improved staffing levels. the white house says surgeons have removed a cancerous lesion above first lady dr. jill biden's right eye and on her chest, a third lesion on her left eyelid is being examined. president biden accompanied his wife to walter reed national

military medical center yesterday where the procedure took place. the white house physician says examination showed the lesionings over biden's right eye and on her chest were both basal cell carcinoma. that is the most treatable form of skin cancer. the white house says the first lady is experiencing some facial swelling and bruising but is in good spirits and is feeling well. we wish her the best. and we have some news from buffalo, willie. >> we certainly wish the first lady the best. glad to hear she's doing well. bills defensive back damar hamlin waking up at home this morning for the first time since suffering a cardiac arrest ten days ago. he was released from a buffalo hospital yesterday where he was transferred monday after spending a week in the icu at the university of cincinnati medical center. the statement released through the bills, hamlin's doctor said,

"in consultation with team physicians, we are confident damar can be safely discharged to continue his rehabilitation at home and with the bills." while doctors have speculated the cardiac event stemmed from a hit to the chest, it's still unclear what exactly caused hamlin's heart to stop. the bills meanwhile set to host the miami dolphins in an afc wild-card game on sunday. again, guys, you don't want to be playing the buffalo bills with the inspiration damar hamlin has given them. >> that's probably a good point. >> speaking about the health of players in the nfl, it's interesting, in that bills/dolphins playoff matchup, willie, tua ruled out for it. >> yeah. >> the concussion problems. he's had a number of them in high school, in college, now in the pros. my gosh, not only the dolphins but tua himself, they're going to have a lot of pretty big decisions to make on whether he

even continues his nfl career. >> yeah. he had a couple months ago that most visible of his concussions. that was just hard to watch where he got up, staggered, kind of fell down again to a knee, and the dolphins came under heavy criticism, the nfl did for its concussion protocol, why was he allowed to go back into the game. now he's back in concussion protocol, so he will not play in the dolphins playoff game up in buffalo. the dolphins going with their third-string quarterback. but the long-term questions about tua health. >> yeah. coming up on "morning joe," the latest from california where cleanup efforts are under way after a series of massive storms, this as the region braces for more torrential rains on the way. we'll get a live report. also ahead this hour, we'll get a live report from the courthouse in idaho, where the suspect in the fatal stabbings of four college students is set to make a court appearance. and time is running out for

two lotto winners who are sitting on tickets worth a combined $4.5 million. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪3, 4♪ ♪ ♪hey♪ ♪ ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪

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a little bit before sunrise in san francisco. 6:18 in the morning, 9:18 in new york. cleanup efforts are under way in california after a series of intense storms struck the state. this comes as officials warn a new storm is expected to hit the northern part of california as early as this evening. officials are cautioning this one could last as long as a week. for the latest, let's bring in nbc news national correspondent miguel almaguer live this morning from sacramento. good morning. the word that comes to mind the relentless with this weather. >> reporter: absolutely, willie. and we are finally getting a

break in the rain, but it's expected to come back. now that we do have that break in the rain, we're getting a better perspective of the damage. look at this building behind me. it was sheared by a massive tree that was well over 100 feet tall. it toppled during that rainstorm. this is the root ball from that tree, and just on the other side of it another downed tree, and that downed tree slammed into this building right here. so today we are finally getting a better perspective of the damage and there will be cleanup under way just before the next storm rolls in. more misery swamping the golden state as dangerous flooding from another pineapple express putting property and people in jeopardy. the storms have claimed at least 18 lives so far. today more than 100 members of the national guard searching for 5-year-old kyle done. >> he told me, mommy, it's okay.

everything will be okay. >> reporter: the little boy swept out of his mother's arms as they tried to escape their flooded car. >> i tried to hold his hands and the water pulled him away from me. i was drifting down the river and i could see his head bobbing on the top of the river. >> reporter: in the central valley and along the entire coastline, massive landslides and fast-moving water destroying roadways, bridges, and train tracks. san francisco hit by thunderstorms and hail. the damage to statewide infrastructure could top a billion dollars, say experts. the governor warning climate change could make bomb cyclones like this one more frequent. >> the drys are getting a lot drier the last three year, and the wets are getting a lot wetter. this weather chip lash is that new reality. >> reporter: with reservoirs starting to fill back up and the snow pack in the sierras 200% above average, the storms are

helping to reduce the drought, but right now the soil can't absorb any more rain. >> this is about a 150-foot pine tree that came down. >> reporter: downed trees crashing across roadways and into homes. more than 1,000 have toppled in the city of sacramento alone. this morning emergency crews working to repair what they can before the next storm blows in. the bad news, more rain is on the way. the concern is this -- there's so much saturated ground here that trees can still topple, hillsides can still come tumbling down. that's going to be the big worry before the rain even starts this weekend. >> more to come. they can't handle any more. miguel almaguer, thanks so much. let's bring in democratic congresswoman katie porter of california, who just announced her bid for the united states senate in that state. we'll get to that in just a

moment, congresswoman, but an update from your district, there's no part of your state untouched by this weather. >> the severe storms are a terrible problem and they're going to continue. they're evidence of the urgency of addressing climate change. california has seen severe weather of all different types from long, terrible wimps to now these storms. we need to elect a senator who can address this, who won't be beholden to big oil, and who understands that our country is in crisis and we need leaders who can tackle that, and i'm ready to do exactly that. i'm anxious to get back home and see my kids, dry them off, and make sure they're safe. >> congresswoman porter, looking at your campaign material and you talk about being -- that california needs a warrior in washington. what would make you different than the warriors in the senate representing california? >> four years in the house and

six years campaigning, i haven't done things like they've always to been done. i don't take corporate pac money. i turn down federal lobbyist money. i'm willing to use whatever tools i have to engage the american public. you see me in hearings how committed i am to oversight. there are warriors in the senate, and dianne feinstein, our senator, is one of those people. i'm honored to be following in the footsteps of such a trail blazer, someone who has made so many opportunities for women in politics in california. >> she hasn't announced she's retiring yet, has she? >> she has not yet. she'll make a decision when she's ready, and that's exactly what she should do. she should take her time. that's what all of us should do. i made my decision and i'm ready. >> did you speak to her before you made the announcement that you'll be running against her? >> before announced, i reached out to the senator. i was not able to connect.

but i'm looking forward to hopefully getting a chance for her to call back and sit down with her. she has so much to teach all of us. her ability to fight a ban on assault weapons. she is an amazing leader and i'm looking forward to continuing to learn from her and serve with her representing california in the congress. >> there was first open speculation and then reporting on the fact that she may no longer be up to serving because of her ag and some challenges that she's facing. is that one of the reasons why you decided to run? do you think diane feinstein is not up to serving the people of california anymore? >> senator feinstein is serving the people of california right now. she's voting on bills, making a difference. my decision, and i want to emphasize this, is mine. i am the kind of person who's always been willing to step up and lead. i think one of the things i learned from senator feinstein is you need to be willing to

step up. you need to be willing to take on tough fights. that's what i expect this senate race to be. but i've always had tough campaigns and i've always won, and i hope this will be the same result. >> hi, congresswoman. jonathan lemire. i want your sense of the early perception of the days of this congress. kevin mccarthy as house speaker, a chaotic vote. now a new rules package. what is your estimation of the ability to get things done across the aisle, particularly with some huge fighting looming, including over government funding and the debt ceiling? >> i think what we're seeing is more evidence, sadly, tragically, that washington is breaken, and i think this is what is reinforcing to the american people is the folks they sent to washington are not able to come together and to governor. i think what we've seen from republicans so far is they're pushing bills that have no chance of passing in the senate, that are about -- that are

really proformative and are putting our entire economy at risk. too much of our economy is at risk because washington is behold on the special interests, and i want to make sure we have an economy that works for everyone, and that means being responsible about things like the debt ceiling. going back to the campaign, senator elizabeth warren has endorsed you in a senate race. i understand she was your old law school professor as well. it's likely to be a big field regardless of whether senator feinstein runs again. you'll have adam schiff, barbara lee has expressed some interest. what sets you awe v apart within that field from a group of progressives? why are you the right choice? >> i think it's my willingness to fight corruption. i lead the ban on stock trading. i don't take corporate pac money and never have. i'm one of only a half dozen or so lawmakers who refuse federal lobbyist money. i've shown in hearing after

hearing, whether it's big banks or big oil or big pharma, i'm willing to call those out who are hurting the american people. i have a real commitment to oversight, and i'm willing to do that oversight on either party if necessary. republicans bear a lot of the responsibility for the destruction of our democracy and the attacks on our democracy in the last few years, but we have to be honest, some members of our own party are not helping, and i think i would stand out with my record for doing that. i'm from a swing district. i helped win over voters in orange county, and i think i bring that energy to campaign across california and ultimately across the country to help us make sure that democrats win majorities in the house and the senate this cycle and for years to come. >> only 22 month till election day. a long road ahead. democratic congresswoman katie porter of california, thank for your time this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. time for a look at the morning papers. the "columbus dispatch" is reporting that ohio's attorney general is asking the state

supreme court to weigh in on the issue of abortion. ohio's so-called heartbeat law, which bans abortions up to six weeks, have been on pause since september. the attorney general wants the law reinstated arguing there is no constitutional right to abortion in ohio. in iowa, the "des moines register" is reporting on a suspected ransomware attack targeting the state's largest school district. officials with des moines public schools discovered the cybersecurity breach on monday. classes were shut down for two days. students are being told to expect an offline learning experience until further notice with limited internet access. in florida, the st. lousy news tribune is taking a look at the year ahead for nasa after the successful artemis moon mission last year. the space agency is hoping to carry that momentum forward in 2003. nasa administrator bill nelson says we can expect to see more

missions to the international space station, new developments for the artemis program, and advancement in the field of supersonic aircraft. and mississippi's "sun herald" reports time is running out for two lucky lottery winners in the state. a powerball ticket worth $4 million and a mega millions ticket worth $500,000 have gone unclaimed for months. the winning tickets expire after 180 days. by the way, the current mega millions jackpot has increased to an estimated $1.35 billion, and the drawing is tomorrow night. >> wow. >> i just don't -- am i, like, the only person -- i just don't -- i don't like it. >> you don't like that? >> the lottery. >> why don't you like it? >> it's a long story. we can talk about it. >> really. >> yeah. a little bit of a debate. coming up, a prosecutor who

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it's 34 past the hour. welcome back. one of the top prosecutors who investigated former president donald trump and was the first to get his taxes is branching out on his own with some new targets in mind, and he just gave his first tv interview to nbc news investigative correspondent tom winter. tom joins us now with his exclusive story. tom? >> well, mika, his new group called free and fair is hoping to channel their expertise in the courts to address deep concerns they have for the rights of individuals. >> if trump was the match that started this burning trend toward authoritarianism, what i would say is now we have the house on fire, we need to focus on how to put that fire out and

not keep fussing with the match book. >> reporter: chief counsel carey dunne who investigated trump and his companies. trump's lawyers took him to the supreme court twice, and dunne won twice. >> this is the end of the road for the president's lawyers to appeal here. >> reporter: successfully arguing that the most powerful person in america was not above the law or at least not above having to turn over his long-shielded tax records to new york prosecutors. the investigation led to trump's cfo and company being convicted in tax schemes. trump himself hasn't been charged. we asked dunne if he would discuss the details of his investigation into trump and his resignation when a newly elected district attorney decided to hold off, at least for now, on charging the former president. >> it's not something i'm interested in just talking about. i don't see the need. there's a fairly robust record already, you know, published about what we were

investigating. frankly from my own perspective it's in the rear-view mirror. >> reporter: dunne has a new target. >> we're dealing with a national movement at rolling back rights and pretty muches that we've taken for granted for generations. it's much broader than trump. >> reporter: they're working on issues and snaking their way through the courts. >> these are effort toss ban books, you know, and prohibit in some cases discussions that some people would rather not hear about like race and sexuality and in some cases things like, you know, the holocaust even. frankly, it's reminiscent of the mccarthy era. >> reporter: they're working on cases of blocking carrying of assault rifles and making sure those who participated in january 6th are held accountable. some might say this is a partisan political attorney.

>> i don't think of ourselves as partisan. i do think of ourselves as, you know, trying to uphold a particular way of interpreting the constitution, which, frankly, has persisted for many decades, generations, until now, and is now under attack. if that meets with disagreement by people who are on the other side of that debate, so be it. that's what we do as lawyers. >> he and his partner mike pomeranz worked at the d.a.'s office and resigned his prosecutorial bench say they'll make no money but have raised $1.6 million to get started. >> tom, incredible. he says he'll keep people accountable for january 6th. the obvious question here is does that include donald trump. >> i asked him about that. he's going to look at the 14th amendment, which for somebody who was involved in an insurrection might bar them from holding future office. but i think the key there, mika, he says is whether or not donald trump actually appears in a

ballot and then of course they have to weigh whether or not they have standing to move a case like that. bottom line is he hasn't ruled it out. >> so, tom, switching over to another subject, about 14 hours ago at the start of our show we talked about the doj actually looking at more information, trying to get more information on january 6th. i'm curious what you think about those developments. does it mean the doj is really looking more closely at possibly charging donald trump and those around him for the same thing tay ear charging the rioters? >> i think they need to gather as much information as possible to try to prove intent. it's not illegal for donald trump to say whatever we think about those claims that the election was rigged, that i should have been the president, that there was all sorts of voter fraud. what i think the justice department is doing, what it seems like based on the public reports and the reports from our colleagues, is that they're trying to gather more substantive evidence and information that can say what was the present's state of mind?

was there a plan here? he can say what he wants to say, but was there an effort here to drive events of that day? there's been all sorts of things that have come out through the january 6th committee, but it's different in a court of law and different when you try to seek an indictment, the types of information you need to bring out. it's also important to note in the course of that process, one of the key things you ear trying to determine is what evidence exists that may counter any sort of indictment that we would bring? in other words, is there information that could be beneficial to donald trump that we will have to disclose, that will have to come up at trial, that could jam up our case, that could cause a problem before the grand jury. those are all things they need to consider. the train is definitely headed down the tracks, but whether or not it pulls into an indictment, joe, is something that's going to take time. >> and speaking of how fascinating that a judge found in a proud boys case yesterday that donald trump saying "stand back, stand by" actually was admissible evidence. >> right.

>> let's move over the documents case. it appears the president taken documents out of the white house and wallpapered their homes with it. no moral equivalency, no legal equivalency between joe biden and these documents that they're finding and turning over immediately and those that donald trump kept for a year, year and a half from the doj. i'm curious, though, what's the latest development on the biden papers, the new set of papers? how does that -- what legal impact will that have on donald trump's case and also an investigation possibly into what joe biden has done? >> people may not believe, this but just based on my experience of covering the justice department and talking to people familiar with these types of cases, you see the difference between the two of them based on public reporting, court documents, what we know so far, i think they're siloed off.

folks may not believe that, but i think the two cases are completely separate. they'll get completely separate pairs of eyes on them. the stage that the biden document inquiry, if you will, or the review is in a much earlier stage than where the mar-a-lago document case is. so that's a key factor in this. i think they'll have to look and say, all right -- again, its go back to issues of intent, the same issues with the mar-a-lago case. why were these documents removed. >> why did they show up at an office? where were they kept? but there's an effort to get back the documents that were at mar-a-lago for a long period of time. there's a school of thought by some in the law enforcement community that that effort went on too long before there was a search that was conducted. there's school of thought that maybe there should have been given more time, though i don't know what would have necessarily have changed. so this is a different circumstance in that the archives were not looking for these documents based on what we've been told, so they find the documents and then they raise their hand and say we

found these documents, we want you to be aware of it. all sorts of political questions about the timing of when that information was released. that's outside the scope of my reporting. but i think right now we're kind of barely in the top of the first or bottom of the first inning on the biden review, whereas the mar-a-lago case is much closer to the seventh or eighth inning. whether or not that ends up in an indictment for the former president is something we'll have to keep an eye on and see where the case goes. >> tom winter, thank you very much. coming up, we'll have a live report from moscow, idaho, ahead of a court appearance today by the man accused of killing four college students. nbc's stephanie gosk will have more on the evidence that investigators say ties him to the murders. e five little words. no, not “let me get the pancakes.” or “i'll have all the bacon.” we're talking about... rooty tooty fresh 'n fruity i'm going to get the rooty tooty fresh 'n fruity

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students is set to make a second court appearance today, this time for a preliminary status hearing. it comes you a day after students returned to campus for the start of the spring semester. joining us with more is nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk, who is live this morning outside the courthouse in moscow, idaho. stephanie? >> reporter: mika and joe, good morning to you guys. i'm in front of the courthouse. i'm also in front of the county jail. it's basically the same building. it's where bryan kohberger has been kept since arriving here a little over a week ago. his public defender in pennsylvania says he expects to be eventually exonerated, but this process has only really just begun. meanwhile, we're getting new information about the investigation. a source close to the investigation tells us that kohberger wasn't considered a suspect in this case until december 23rd. that's weeks after that affidavit suggests. and it was dna, specifically

forensic genealogy, that was the key. bryan kohberger in front of a judge again today, facing four counts of first-degree murder. the quadruple homicide case that has captivated the country for months broke open on december 23rd according to a source close to the investigation, when forensic genealogy led investigators to a specific family, and that eventually led them to bryan kohberger himself. the probable cause affidavit says that same day, december 23rd, police issued a warrant for kohberger's cell phone records. days later, investigators also searched the trash at the pennsylvania home and found a strong dna connection. police at washington state university identified kohberger as the owner of a white hyundai elantra on november 29th, according to police, but investigators wouldn't have incriminating cell phone records and dna results until weeks later. the affidavit makes no mention of forensic genealogy, but at the time of the arrest, two law enforcement sources told nbc

news it played a key role. moscow police said they could not comment. a judge has issued a gag order for law enforcement involved in the case. kohberger was pursuing his ph.d. in criminology at washington state university. an undergraduate student who had him as a teaching assistant spoke with "dateline." >> when he was standing in front of the class, it was like he was, you know, in a box, for, you know, uncomfortable i guess. it felt like he was professionally uncomfortable. >> reporter: on campus, the spring semester has begun. >> i expected to feel a lot better. >> reporter: they're hiring extra security and handing out pocket-sized alarms. why do you feel like that's necessary even though an arrest has been made? >> we don't want to be distracted from the number one focus. >> reporter: also returning to campus, victim ethan's two siblings. their mother thanking the community for their support in a

facebook post. she wrote her son had been inclusive, carefree, happy, just the best person you could ever meet. he touched lives we had no idea existed. this is really a procedural hearing. kohberger and his public defender will have to determine whether or not they want a preliminary hearing which is like a mini trial. it they waive that hearing, they will go to arraignment to expect further court dates to be set. >> stephanie gosk, thank you very much for that report. let's bring in state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave, it's good to have you on. >> you have some fascinating insights. first of all, you talk about how witnesses lie, but science doesn't. talk about how that has placed this defendant in such a weak position. >> yeah, the most important evidence against bryan koberger

comes in the form of his dna. if he is the killer, he made a crucial mistake in that he left behind the sheathe of the knife and that contained touch dna. this is a new frontier. this is helping us solve a lot of cases. most famously t helped law enforcement solve the golden state killer case because what happens is you find the dna and put it into these ancestry databases and find a relative. that's how they are able to pinpoint the defendant here. so they took that information. they went to the family's home in pennsylvania, pulled the trash, found that the father was a match, the father of the dna left behind. that's what led to today. >> and how damning that you have the defendant moving the trash to a neighbor's trash can because he was aware of the possibility that dna linking him up. dave, you bring up something

interesting. while there's a lot of evidence against this guy, a the lot of hard data that suggests he's a murder, you say there are two things missing and that the prosecution should worry about it. one, the murder weapon. which is not uncommon. that happens but the difficulty here you say maybe the lack of moive. jurors love to know not only who killed whom, but why they did it. and right now, that's missing. so what do the prosecutors have to do? >> yeah, joe, you got it right. the fact that they don't have the murder weapon is not that big of a deal. we're used to trying cases. murders love to dispose of their devices. the problem for prosecutors now is to develop the motive.

you do not have to show motive, jurors want to know the why. they want to know when you have a clean cut guy like this with no criminal background that why would he commit such a heinous act. so investigators are digging through everything they can about him to establish that he was a fascinated by true crime a fan boy of the criminal minds in serial killers. he studied under the btk killers auto biographer. so you have to try to tell the story of why someone like this would commit such an unspeakable act. >> state attorney for palm beach county dave aaronberg, thank you for your insight. we'll continue to cover this story. up next, universal studios has plans far new family-friendly theme park we'll tell you which state has landed the huge attraction. we're back in just a moment. at. we're back in just a moment.

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it's a few minutes before the top of the hour. a live look at dallas. let's get a look at the morning papers. in california the sacramento b reports that governor newsom's budget for the coming fiscal year contains $3.4 billion in homelessness spending.

even as the state faces a $23 billion deficit. despite the billions spent on care ask prevention, the number of californians experiencing homelessness has gone up in recent years. staying in california where the east bay times reports that oakland's efforts to keep the a's in town took a major blow after the city was denied a federal grant that could have provided one-third of the funds needed for the terminal stadium project. according to the paper, it is largely unknown where exactly the negotiations stand between the city and its last major professional sorts franchise. but the u.s. transportation department's decision no the to include oakland in its list of recipients makes a difficult project even harder. >> it would be strange.

>> the dallas morning news has a front page feature or the new one of a kind theme park coming to texas. universal parks and resorts bought a 100-acre site on the dallas north tollway for a new kids focused park and hotel. the park will include four or five universal-themed interactive experiences as well as a 300-room hotel. >> how exciting. hopefully the governor won't go to war with harry potter. so jonathan, it's strange enough seeing the las vegas raiders. the a's are oakland. i can't imagine them being anywhere else. >> they lost the warriors to san francisco. the i hope they figure out that stadium deal, but there's momentum they have to move. that would be a shame. >> that does it for us this morning. jose diaz-balart picks up the coverage right