good to be with you. i'm katy tur. here we go again. attorney general merrick garland appointed another special counsel today, this time to investigate president biden's handling of, pred biden's handling of classified documents. robert k.hur will oversee the probe before going into the public sector, he was a u.s. attorney for the district of maryland, from 2018 to 2021, a trump appointee, unanimously confirmed by the u.s. senate. this now means there are two special counsels working for the d.o.j. right now, one investigating the current president, and the other investigating the former. there is a lot to unpack. including why attorney general garland made this decision, what

got him to this point, and why he chose mr. hur. let's get into it. joining me now is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, so ken, was this all made more urgent by the discovery of even more documents this time in a garage next to the president's corvette, is this why we got a special counsel today? >> that certainly is the sense you get, if there isn't a direct relationship, it certainly had to contribute, because think about what we have here. we have a u.s. attorney in chicago, who has been conducting a review, for weeks, trying to gather the facts and understand whether there is any need for a criminal investigation. and in order to do that, you need to know where are all of the classified documents, how did they get there, and as we've been reporting today, the fbi interviewed some of the biden aides involved in packing the boxes and moving the documents, so that u.s. attorney had been reporting to merrick garland. well then, all of a sudden,

today, you have another revelation of classified documents. i mean at some point it becomes the preliminary review stage has to end and you say i can't exonerate, i can't say that no crime is committed so we have to go forward with a special counsel. and it looks like that is the decision that merrick garland made. he didn't really lay out, as i thought he might today, some of the factors, some of the reasons behind why they couldn't rule this out as a series of innocent mistakes, but that's the facts, i mean that is just, that's on its face, that is the reality, because if the u.s. attorney in chicago could have established that yes, this was just some sloppiness of packing boxes then it would be no need tore a special counsel but in fact, what we have is a special counsel and rob hur, the man appointed, is a consummate career special prosecutor, katy, who was in a senior role at the trump justice department, deputy to rod rosenstein in the job that touches almost everything

here in this building at the d.o.j., and then he was appointed u.s. attorney in maryland, where he led a number of complex prosecutors, and really, he goes way back in the justice department. he at one point worked for christopher wray, now the fbi director, at that time was in the justice department, he is a graduate of harvard college and stanford law school where he was the executive editor of u-the -- of the law review. and outstanding reputation for anyone who is questioning whether this would be handled fairly and down the middle. >> let's talk about that, when you're appointing a special counsel to investigate the current president, what does it mean to appoint somebody who before he got back to the private sector most recently was a u.s. attorney from maryland, appointed by donald trump, and unanimously approved by the senate. >> i mean i'm sure that part of the democrats will look suspiciously but those who know rob hur and i'm seeing tweets from former democratic justice department appoints, those who

know rob hur says this is a man who will play straight down the middle and people who know him don't really know what his politics are and obviously if you're a republican appointee you're on that team to a certain respect, but he has a reputation as a person who is essentially a career prosecutor, and when you rise to a certain level in the justice department, you have no choice but to be a political appointee, all of the top jobs are filled by political appointees and you are sort of picking one side or the other, but his background is as a career prosecutor, katy. >> ken, not to stay with you on this, but i want to get all of the reporting in on this from the justice department side of things is, there any reason to question what the white house lawyers have said, which is that they just find these because they were moving offices and they happened upon these classified documents, and then they did a wider search just in case, and just happened upon these other documents found in this grand jury. is there any reason that the justice department might not think that that is the full

story? >> it's hard to know the answer to that. i mean one question that we have had, talking about it other here, is why would, over year, is why would you have lawyers, $1500 an hour lawyers packing your boxes at the penn biden center. that doesn't seem normal. and it would seem more likely that sort of office support folks would be packing boxes and maybe if they saw a classified documents, then they would call the lawyers in. so i have a question about that. i mean there is no reason to doubt a statement made by a member of the bar who is, you know, the white house counsel who has been making these statements, but it seems like it is likely that there is more to the story, because it was just simply a matter of some mislaid documents, some mistakes and sloppy packing, we wouldn't need a special counsel, katy. >> don't go anywhere. let's bring in white house correspondent carol, and counter-intelligence and export control section of the d.o.j.

national security division and someone who has had long conversations with us on the show about classified documents, regarding trump at least, i'm curious to get all of his analysis and information on this, david laufman and also michael steele. so carol, let's focus on the white house for a moment. there is a raised question about why it took so long for the white house to disclose that they had these documents or that they found these documents. >> there is, katy. first, i want to read you a statement, we just got a statement from the white house counsel's office, in regards to the appointment of this special counsel, and potentially what we're hearing from, the white house counsel's office is their president has cooperated, he will continue to cooperate, and that they're going to see this through, as full cooperation. it also says, katy, that we're confident that a thorough review will show that these documents were inadvertently misplaced and the president and his lawyers acted promptly upon discovery of this mistake. so there you have the

president's counsel saying this was a mistake, these were inadvertently misplaced, and we expect that this will all come out and everyone will be exonerated at the end of this special counsel's investigation. so that's the white house's position on this. now, there is a real question as you said about the time line of this, that clearly the white house made a decision on november 2nd when the president's lawyers first said that they discovered classified documents at the president's, the post-vice presidential office here in washington, d.c., they decided not to be public about that and they handed them to the national archives who handed them over to the justice department. we did get a little bit of clarity on some of the time line questions that we've had about this. we reported yesterday that there was a second batch of documents which was then confirmed this morning by the president, white house counsel's office, and what we know is that that second batch of documents was discovered on december 20th, and so that is more than a month, about six weeks after the initial batch was discovered. and then if you fast forward to

just this morning, we have heard from the white house counsel's office, the president's team that will be searching the president's home in delaware, that they had found a number of documents, and after that, they said that they had warned, what we learned from the attorney general, is that the president's counsel informed the justice department, they found one this morning, that this morning, they had contact, reached out and said they found an additional document, after wrapping up that search of his home last night, katy. >> do we have any indication on why these searches continued, why they, you know, there was the initial batch that was found in his office, this was before the 2022 midterms, and as you said, december, and now another one, this morning, any indication why it's taking so long to find these loose documents? >> it's one of the open questions. what we know is that after that november 2nd discovery that, some of the president's aides

decided to search other areas where he may have stored documents, including his two homes in delaware, and when that search specifically began, we don't know, we just now know that that second batch of documents was discovered on december 20th, and we know that the search concluded, according to the president's legal team, last night, and that this morning, the president's legal counsel reached out to the justice department to say they had found one additional document. so when that search started, we don't know, when it concluded, the president's team said last night. >> let's see if it has concluded, whether or not they're still looking for other documents, i think an industrial strength vacuum may have passed through your life shot, carol, thank you. itching to get your analysis, and curious, i haven't talked to you since this information has been broken and what do you think of the documents found in the former president's office and now his garage? >> let me start by saying rob

hur is an outstanding choice for counsel and i knew him from my time at the department of justice and i think he will do a good job in concluding the investigation and reaching sound jums and decision, judgments and decisions to merrick garland. we don't know why there is a haphazard approach to locations used by the former vice president, now president of the united states. it seems to me that at the outset there should have been a blanket surge of activity by counsel on president biden's behalf to examine all logical locations where records might be located. but we'll have to wait and see how the investigation unfolds, to the extent it explains that sequence of events. but what we do know is that the controlling legal standard, with the attorney general, to appoint special counsel, is that this matter warranted criminal investigation. and as ken pointed out, the attorney general did not expound on the factual reasons that

underlie his decision, but nor should he really, because it is now an open criminal investigation, so apart from providing the bare bones of the sequence of events, he really shouldn't be talking further about the facts known to him, thus far. >> do you believe that it is just an errant placing of documents, that this is no big deal, when we've had these conversations about donald trump, and the documents, and there are differences between these story, but when we've had these conversations, david, the idea of classified documents, just going with somebody, and then staying there for years, it doesn't seem to have come up much, because when we talked about that happening, those people have been prosecuted. it felt to me, in our conversations, that this was unusual. is this still unusual? i mean is this a normal thing to misplace these documents? even if it's aides packing the boxes? >> i can tell you from my experience, in conducting an

overseeing investigations regarding the mishandling of classified information, there is nothing uncommon about former government officials having classified documents at their home, it ranges, it runs the gamut, i once reported a state official document who hoarded thousands of documents in his home, but the standard for determining criminal liability is appropriate, it means that there has to be some aggravating factors or willfulness involved, more than just mistakes. if this is just careless mistakes or cavalcade even of careless mistakes, it doesn't rise to the standard of criminal liability. there was, if there is, there is a provision of the espionage act that makes it a crime to engage in gross negligence with respect to the retention of classified material, but we researched the hell out of that statute, in the clinton matter, we uncovered the legislative history of that statute, the history of

enforcement, policies by the department of justice, and we came to the unanimous conclusion that the department does not charge that statute unless there are aggravating factors present. and we'll have to wait to see whether any such factors present themselves in this case. but if they don't, then this matter should not result in a finding of criminal liability. >> all right, michael steele, politics, talk to me about the politics of all of this. >> so i'm going to use a foe foundly complicated wore -- profoundly comp complicated word to describe it, it sucks, it is bad image, bad narrative, although to the white house's credit, they are getting out in front of it, they are being as transparent as possible. even as additional revelations from the reporting of our intrepid team indicates is revealing new narratives that unfold. i think to david's broader

point, which really kind of explains, at least for me, why hur has been engaged here and why the justice department is taking the aappropriates that they have, is to be as hands off and to be as transparent, and just presume as much as possible into this. and then take it off the table. it is easier to take stuff off the table than to have to go back and add, oh, now this looks like it is a criminal thing, it's easier to take that off the table by including it upfront and saying we want to come into this, in light of what president trump's story line has unfolded before the country, we want to aggressively go after this on the front end, looking at all of the possible scenarios, and then taking those scenarios out of play, as this investigation unfolds. i think to the extent that the administration stays forthright, and there are no more drip-drips of documents, they can get past

this pretty quickly. but the political narrative as we already know, katy, is well under way, and in hand of his political opponents who are doing the what-about-ism, who are doing the, you know, the disparate justice, that they're treating biden differently from trump, ignoring, as you put up at one point, the clear comparative facts between, oh, my lawyers found this while we were going through some documents and turned it over within 24 hours, versus a year-long effort that involves subpoenas and fbi agents raiding the president's, former president's home in mar-a-lago. >> republicans will say i don't believe those lawyers, i don't believe that that's what is really going on here, listen, we just found out there are more documents, that's going to be their argument, their argument will also be why wasn't president biden's home raided the way that donald trump's home was, and this is a term they'll use, raided. why is he not being treated the

same way, presumption of guilt from the outset, the way president biden was treated. how is that argument going to play when republicans start beating that drum over and over again, michael? >> well, they will beat that drum knowing that the facts belie the drum that they're beating. they know damn well why president trump's home was raided to use their term by the fbi, they know why, but they're not going to cede that ground politically because it is a better narrative going after the current president going and saying he is being treated differently, and our guy, his home was raided, why haven't you raided their home. their lawyer within 24 hours did their job and the president announced, he then claimed these are my documents. your guy did. and the archives say they're not your documents. and that got into a head-long battle over getting those documents back. you then promised, your guy promised he was going to deliver the documents and they didn't do it. which is why they took the legal

action they took, by sending in the fbi, and getting the courts involved. so it is very clear the differences here. but you're absolutely right, katy, there is no getting around the good reporting by our reporters, the strong legal analysis that lays out the factual case, that distinguishes between these two in the face, the full frontal assault of the politics of this, to try to stain the president and to be honest, to divert from everything else that the republican party has got going on right now, from mccarthy to what's going on down in mar-a-lago. >> all right, ken and carol, thank you very much for joining us. david and michael, do not go anywhere. we are going to continue this conversation after the break, get to the apples to apples or maybe not apples-to apples comparison to president trump's case and president biden's case. we also have what a new trump subpoena reveals about the

ongoing investigation into the former president and his role, not in the classified documents, but the january 6th riot. remember, the special counsel, jack smith, is also looking into this. not just the classified documents. the reporter who broke that story will join me. and george santos revealed what it will took for him to resign. what he told our nbc news reporters on capitol hill, as even more republicans are calling for his ouster. (cecily) what's up, einstein? (einstein) my network has gone kaput! (cecily) you tried to save a buck on it? (einstein) not so smart. (cecily) well, there is a smarter way to save. (einstein) oh?! (cecily) switch to verizon! (vo) that's right. for a limited time get verizon unlimited for just $25 a line, guaranteed for 3 years. (einstein) brilliant! (vo) only on verizon.

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let's keep getting into this news of the special counsel for president biden and the other special counsel for former president donald trump, joining the conversation now is "washington post" political investigative reporter josh dawsey and back with me is david and michael steele. josh, hold on a second because i know you have new reporting on jack smith and what he is doing but i want to get, is this an

apples-to-apples comparison to these two general counsels, david? >> you're asking me? no, based on the facts in the record, the facts in the mar-a-lago matter egregiously disproportionate to what we know about the biden matter. hundreds of classified documents found in trump's residence, which he has admitted, and proudly proclaimed that he caused to be sent there and proudly hoarded there, plus we have obstruction of evidence, concealment of government records, it is a whole casserole of criminal liability that is boiling in that investigation. this is pretty small beer right now, based on what we know. but it obviously was enough for the attorney general to determine that it warrants criminal investigation. the commencement of a criminal investigation does not mean that there will be any finding of criminal wrong doing, but that's what investigations are for. and ultimately, where the rubber is going to hit the road, katy,

there will come a time where mr. hur is going to conclude it is time to interview, oh, i don't know the sitting president of the united states to explain what happened here. and that's going to be an interesting experience. for all concerned. >> that will be an interesting experience. we all do remember that donald trump flatly refused to do that multiple times when the former special counsel was looking into the russia investigation, and obstruction ended up just giving a written answer, written answers. one more, because you know this office better than i do, and you know how things of this nature work better than i, do merrick garland and everybody there will tell you that they are going to go by the rule of the law, the letter of the law. here is what we will do. but does this politically make it harder? does this factor in, the special counsel, for president biden, factor into any decision-making against donald trump? >> it shouldn't. and i don't think it will. i mean jack smith is going to arrive at a reasoned, sound, impartial judgment about whether there is criminal liability that

should attach either to the january 6th investigation on the part of mr. trump or the mar-a-lago piece. you know, when that goes, if he makes a recommendation to charge the president, the former president, i think the attorney general can't unring the bell of what he knows about biden, but this isn't kind of a, well, here is one for you, and here is one for you, you get a special counsel, you get a special counsel, garland is going to have to make a judgment based on what the strength of the government's case is going to be. i have said before, i think there's kind of a plus factor, not codified in law, when you're talking about charging potentially a former president of the united states, it's got to be beyond a reasonable doubt, to be sure, but i think there's going to be a plus factor there that will attach to his exercise of prudential judgment, about whether to approve charges for the first time in history against a former president. as far as mr. hur goes, he's got a much more contained investigative journey ahead of him, i think, and so this investigation should not take

all that long. they've already spoken to witnesses, and you know, to decide whether to interview additional witnesses, other than the president, and review people, are there other locations to search, and so there's clearly more to do, but on the order of magnitude, it should not nearly approach what mr. smikt is dealing with. >> all right let's talk about the reporting on jack smith and the subpoenas who have gone out and who he has been talking to and what he is looking for, this is not regarding the classified documents, but it is regarding the lead-up to january 6th. >> right, so what we've reported, katy, there was an additional subpoena that went out to a number of campaign officials last month and what they look for is there were things, some of them had already they had asked for, documents about the planning of the ellipse, documents about fundraising, for the event, and after he lost the white house, but they also asked for some new things, copies of retention

agreements from trump officials, if they are not paying for their own lawyers, and information about dominion and smart mad mattic, two of the voting machines that had the most spurious conspiracies about them and as for the election of the election defense fund, the false fund set up by the trump folks to raise money after the election that officials say did not exist. what we also reported is that the grand jury in this matter, which is speeding up specifically, there's been a lot of witnesses brought in, and in recent day, and recent weeks, there has been a, there has been interest, and we're two years interest. it is somewhat surprising that it is so broad when so much activity was caught on camera and they are looking for things that they do not have, ties to these groups, and money that

changed hands, and it is unclear what they found so far, but had is a pretty broad subpoena, more than two dozen categories, communication with more than 100 people, including all of these fake electors, and it seems like they're still casting a pretty wide net on this investigation. >> michael steele, make sense of all of this politically speaking, we have republicans controlling congress, they are going to beat the drum as i said before, on investigations into president biden, there is new fodder with the classified document, they're going to go after hunter biden as well, joe biden by way of hunter biden, and at the same time, they have donald trump running for president again, and that proved to be a hangover for them, in 2022, for the midterms, what happens next? >> you've just laid out what happens next, everything you just described will be an ongoing, every day occurrence, for the gop. from congressional hearings, to kevin mccarthy, wailing from the

bully pulpit of the speaker's chair about the malfeasance of the biden administration. that, look for the pivot to, it is difficult to carry on negotiations in the midst of so much turmoil inside the administration, it is difficult to conclude discussions around, fill in the blank legislation, or issue, with these matters that still need to be addressed by the biden administration, there will be all manners of pivots and blocks and tackles made to avoid having to do the governing thing. that's why in the last segment, i said that the politics of this suck. and not so much for biden. that's bad. for us. because, you know, as crazy and as you know the sound bites were, and as distracting things

are at the moment, this now layers more on top of all of that, and that's why it is going to be incumbent on the biden administration and the biden, president biden himself, to get out in front and stay out in front on this, pushing him to saying, everything you want is right here. i've got nothing else to hide. there are no more documents. if that can be safely stated at some point. and we've cooperated. and to david's excellent points, then the justice department piece will unfold itself naturally around this, and there will be a moment where the special prosecutor hur will come out and say done it, we've put everything into the pot, on the table, rather, and we took off the table the stuff that didn't matter anymore, and what's left is nothing. so we'll see if that happens. >> that's when it might matter more that it is a trump appointee saying that. >> that's right. >> and come out and say that. >> josh dawsey, thank you very

much for bringing us your reporting. i will sneak in a quick break. david, i know you're sticking around because we have a white house briefing scheduled for any moment. michael steele, you're sticking around too because we're about to talk about george santos. two more new york republicans say he should step down. what george santos, we're seeing the back of his head, what he just told our cameras about when he will resign. moderate-to-severe eczema. it doesn't care if you have a date,

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i would have hired actually talented people from all over the world. instead of talentless people from all over my house. i came here to serve the people, not politicians and party leaders, and i'm going to do just that and i've been doing that throughout the entire first few weeks, whether it is voting for the speaker or whether it has been the last week where we are working on legislation in my office. i wish well all of their opinions but i was elected by 142,000 people and until those same 142,000 people tell me they don't want me, we'll find out in two years. >> 142,000 people have to tell him to go. new york congressman george santos is still facing a lot more pressure in his own party for him to step down. at least five republican lawmakers from his own state are telling him to do the right thing and to quit. as we just heard right there, george santos says he is not going to go until 142,000

people, the ones that voted for him, over his opponent, say so. but what did kevin mccarthy say about all of this today? joining me is nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake and "new york times" reporter michael gould. what is the state of play on george santos on political today? >> well, katy, he's not going anywhere, at least not for right now, he told reporters the same thing that he said in that podcast, he is sticking around until his constituents tell him to leave and he has kevin mccarthy holding his back, he has mccarthy saying it is up to the voters of the new york third congressional district to decide if he should be resigning. and republicans in the past congresses acted more strongly if and when a member gets indicted which is a possibility for mr. santos, he is under investigation by a local d.a. of new york and by the fed, so there is a couple of different ways this can go, but for now,

mr. santos heads into the second weekend of this new congress, still a member, and very much intending to keep his job. >> the paper that brought a lot of this to light, all of the fabrications, the lies about who he was and his record, there are some big questions about where the money has come from, all of the funding for the campaign, what do we know right now? >> there is still a lot of unanswered questions, i think it is important to say that. my colleagues, grace ashford and alex burson reported about a mysterious fund that said it was getting big money donations for the santos campaign but there is no record of the money going to campaign-related expenses and we know the s.e.c. is looking into this complaint that was filed by a watchdog group on monday so i think we're going to see more details about this coming out. >> what about the constituents in long island, he said 142,000 people need to tell him to leave and the republicans in nassau county say this don't want him,

they are very voelk, what about the people? >> i think it is a mixed bag. and when we first reported the story, there were a lot of questions from people whether the reporting is accurate and you saw the reactions start to change when the congressman himself admitted that many of the things we uncovered were in fact fabrications or as he put it embellishments and exaggerations, i think there are things that come out have that have upset people and many republicans in nassau county, mentioned how deeply offended they were in a deeply jewish district, lied about being jewish and holocaust refugees in his background and that seemed to upset people in a way that other parts of the story didn't. >> it would be offensive to say that, i lost members of my family in holocaust, survived it, when you had nothing to do about it. here is a little bit of sound we have gathered from some folks out on long island, about george santos. let's play it. >> it is pretty devastating that we as a community have voted this man in, without checking his credentials. >> he said he is not resigning. >> i think that's really

disappointing. i think the people of long island deserve better. >> i think he should step down. i think it is just too much, nobody is going to want to work with him. it's just too much bad blood now. so i don't know if he'll get any respect, if anybody will listen to him. >> that's a valid point. he is not going to get on top committees. he is not going to be able to do all that much for his constituents, which i think would not be a great thing if you're looking to your national lawmaker. but at the same time, the republicans want him to stay because their majority is so narrow, at least that is going to be part of kevin mccarthy's thinking, if he were to resign, what would happen? special election? there. >> there would be a special election and i think we're looking at two conflicts he ises of political priorities and obviously in washington, speaker mccarthy has his agenda and a narrow majority to hold on to and from the get-go, congressman santos backed the speaker vote and seemed to get in line with the party in a lot of things but on long island, you have a resurgent republican party who had one of their best years in recent memory, and they really want to hold on to that momentum

and build it and i think we heard yesterday he sustained the strength they built in the last two elections. >> and suddenly if they were up for a special election and weren't trying to push him out, they might be seen as a problem themselves and it is in their own self interest to step away from george santos. >> a special election doesn't behave like a traditional cycle. i gather from speaking from new york republicans, they're confident if one were held they could win again and they had a good year and i know opportunities would be chomping at the bit to take back a seat that they lost to congressman santos. michael steele, you're back with us now and michael, you know, just go. just go. tell me what you're thinking. >> so there's a lot, there's a lot that this reporting is unpacking. and here's what it boils down to. the last clip you played of the young woman there, laid out kevin's problem, the problem that the local party's already

recognized, the credibility, the validity of this man, as a member of congress, and what that means to the people in that community. so step one. get a petition going among citizens in his district for the recall. is doesn't effectively do anything, but he's already said, if 142,000 people want me to leave, okay, so get some fraction of the people that he represents saying to him, beyond the political class, that your job is no longer available to you, as a congressman, you are no longer representing us. that has a lot, that is something that the people in congress will pay attention to for sure. secondly, the kevin mccarthy piece is interesting, because in the past, knowing this from my work with john boehner and paul ryan, and others in the party, there is a course that can be taken here, this whole leaning on the constitution piece is important, but not plit politically relevant.

what is politically relevant is the speaker bringing this young man into his office and saying this goes one of two ways. one, you announce your retirement from the house. effective immediately. or two, there's a broom closet with your name on it. that's it. i mean it's complete, there is no committee assignments. there is no walking the meetings. there is no going to caucus meetings. there's an ethics investigation, great, whatever, but you have, as leader, to set the tone and tenor of your leadership, when you have this kind of problem among your members. and i get the whole thing with the vote, but that's what whipping is all about, right? you just, you got to maybe whip an extra vote from a democrat if you need that fourth vote, but the reality of it is there are steps that can be taken by the leader in dealing with this caucus matter, that i don't think kevin is willing to take for just crass political reasons

and that is unfortunate because i think it is a chance for him to take a lot of pressure off of the county and the state parties and the national party and start making this man a story every day during his administration. >> michael steele, well said, sir. thank you very much for sticking around. again, we are still watching for the white house press briefing. we'll go there when it begins. still ahead though, what is inside a new inflation report that has the president declaring that we are on the right track. and what happened when the suspect in the murders of four idaho students appeared in court today. (cecily) what's up, einstein? (einstein) my network has gone kaput! (cecily) you tried to save a buck on it? (einstein) not so smart. (cecily) well, there is a smarter way to save. (einstein) oh?! (cecily) switch to verizon! (vo) that's right. for a limited time get verizon unlimited for just $25 a line, guaranteed for 3 years. (einstein) brilliant! (vo) only on verizon.

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you may pay as little as $10 per prescription. bryan kohberger was in court today as we're learning a little bit more about who he was, from his friend the former student who spoke with "dateline". >> when i knew him, he didn't have any girlfriends, i didn't think he was talking to any

girls, he kept to himself. >> when he was standing in front of the class, like in a box, uncomfortable, it felt like he was professionally uncomfortable. >> for more on "dateline" tomorrow night. to moscow, idaho, where we find nbc's steve patterson. he was in court today, and classes are also resuming there. what have we learned? and what is it like out will? >> reporter: yes, i mean, he was in court for all of 15 minutes or so. this was a very preliminary status hearing, meant to essentially, you know, set the next date of when this court proceeding will keep going, essentially. so the big headline that you need to take away from this is that he was asked if he would need a speedy preliminary hearing, which would be in the next 14 days, he waived that, so instead of 14 days, six months, when the preliminary hearing takes place and it is important

to know we will learn more about the judicial process, and both sides will have witnesses, and both sides may present new evidence and so the attorneys for koebz wanted some time for the discovery process to play out, so they could learn more for that hearing. meanwhile, as you mentioned, you know, campus classes are back, students are back, i think it is a mixed bag to answer your question, katy, i think a lot of people feel that there is somebody in custody, it is the first time they're coming back and having that, so they feel a little bit safer, but still, there's a lot of vigilance here. people buying mace and taking self-defense classes and that overall feeling of sadness hasn't gone away, and i don't think it will go away any time soon. >> no doubt about that. steve patterson, thank you very much, for join can us from moscow, idaho. coming up next, are the prices of everything about to get better? what a new report tells us about inflation and what it means for your groceries, your gas bills and even your mortgage rates.

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(cecily) what's up, einstein? (einstein) my network has gone kaput! (cecily) you tried to save a buck on it? (einstein) not so smart. (cecily) well, there is a smarter way to save. (einstein) oh?! (cecily) switch to verizon! (vo) that's right. for a limited time get verizon unlimited for just $25 a line, guaranteed for 3 years. (einstein) brilliant! (vo) only on verizon. - elites. now that we've made travel so expensive, we have this hotel to our...selves..? - how'd you get here? - kayak! they compared hundreds of travel sites to find a great deal on my flight, car, and hotel. - kayak. search one and done. the data is clear. even though inflation is high, in mayor economies around the world, it is coming down in america month after month, giving families some real

breathing room. >> president biden talked about inflation this morning, which continues to move in the right direction. the consumer price index now shows that in place is at 6.5% compared to this point last year. that is down for the sixth month in a row. once again, though, the drop is largely due to a drop in gas prices, which are now about $3.36 a gallon. when it comes to almost everything else, life is still a lot more expensive. bread, milk, chicken, tomatoes and especially eggs. look at that. $4.25 from $1.79. all up nationwide. joining me is nbc news business and data reporter brian cheung. eggs. eggs. >> expensive. >> that's a huge price increase. >> what's going on? >> when we talk about eggs specifically, there is avian flu that wiped out about 59 million chickens nationwide and that's why the pipeline for eggs isn't there and prices go up but broadly speaking that hasn't the story for overall inflation and a big reason the prices went up in 2022 because there is a lot

more demand for things and a lot more revenge spending and people trying to catch up on experiences and things they couldn't do during the pandemic that pushed prices up. now we're seeing some encouraging signs because it went down to 6.5% on a yearly rate, and that's much lower than the 9.1% we had seen this summer last year and well above 2% which is where policy makers would really like to see us. so the mission not necessarily accomplished. >> gas prices are largely what is bringing this down. because gas prices are falling. when are we going to start seeing the goods and services start to fall as well? when will we see our grocery bill get smaller. >> on the good side, if we're talking about durable goods like furniture or appliances those are already coming down and coming down over time. what is keeping inflation relatively high and the reason why it is above 2% is services and a big part of that is rent, so when we're talking about how much it costs to put a roof over your head, mortgage payments, rent, it is all increasing over the course of 2022, and that's the reason why inflation remains persistent, but when we talk about kind of the other things

like food, that is a major expenditure for american households and a little bit more difficult to say, because when you think about let us, for example, i -- lettuce prices in the salinas valley in california, there are weather conditions and it has nothing to do with fed policy or fiscal policy and food prices are hard to predict. >> when jerome powell comes out in february to announce what we expect to be another rate hike, should we expect it to be 75 basis points again or something smaller? >> the expectation right now after the inflation report, it is nice to look at financial markets and see exactly where people are putting their money in terms of bets and they're betting on a smaller interest rate increase and interest rates will continue to increase but at a slower price, so the expectation is a quarter percentage point increase and they have been doing the larger outsized .75 percentage point increases in the later parts of last year and the fed looking at an off-ramp this year, maybe stopping the increase interest

rate increases but translation, don't expect mortgage rates to dip considerably, same for the credit card rates or auto loan rates as well. >> stock market, terrible year last year, what are the expectations for this year? what are the banks predicting? >> it is a week and a half into january and so far, they have made it up. it is green so far. and i think what is because 2022 is so brutal, as a reminder, the stock market saw the worst year since 2008 last year. that's not a year you want to compare it to. but whether or not that turns around this year, we'll have to see. >> bring chung, always good to see you. thanks for coming in. that is going to do it for me today. hallie jackson picks up our coverage next. ie jackson picks coverage next. if you have a date, a day off, or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema with steroid-free cibinqo. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments. and it's proven to help provide clearer skin and relieve itch fast. cibinqo continuously treats eczema whether you're flaring or not.

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