what the new congress is up to with two former members from opposite sides of the aisle. another hour of velshi begins right now. ght now. good morning, it saturday, january the 14th. i'm former but lucas leave all follows why saar, ali velshi. i am ali velshi, but i'm not there was a after a volleyball star or any parts of athlete, and neither was george santos, the embattled long island freshman congressman, whose many lies have led to his constituents, even some of his fellow republicans, to call for his resignation just days after he was sworn. and santos's saga has been a side show over the past month as house republicans prepared to take power. it's been a rough transition. weeks, house republicans were exposed as a clash during 15 rounds of voting for the speaker of the house, and despite the initial turmoil within their party, republicans actually got quite a bit doug during the first full week in office. on monday, the house had a

relatively easy time passing its rules package, its first order of business, but the rules package includes provisions like the motion to vacate, which makes it easier to remove the speaker, kevin mccarthy. it also gets rid of pandemic era changes like proxy voting, it imposes rules and limiting spending and blocking tax increases. house republicans also passed a pair of disingenuous and deceitful antiabortion bills that were designed to push propaganda rather than addressing real concerns about women's reproductive rights. their decision to pass these bills during the first week of that new term, and despite the overall unpopularity of their antiabortion positions, demonstrates how they seriously are about governing in general. republicans made it clear months ago that they intend to use their tenure to investigate democrats. the rules package includes a provision that allows the house to create a new subcommittee to investigate the origins of covid and to scrutinize the work of dr. anthony fauci. james comer, the kentucky congressman and then the chair of the oversight committee, has also begun a probe of the bidens and their family business. it's going to include a review

of hunter biden's laptop, the contents of which conservatives believe would have doomed biden's presidential bid two years ago. comer as already requested the biden family's financial records with the treasury department. he also wants twitter executives to answer lawyers questions regarding allegations that they kept the story from spreading by limiting its reach on social media. then, there is the new select committee on the weaponization of the federal government, which will be led by jim jordan, the new chief of the house judiciary committee and a close trump ally, who has also been implicated in the effort to overturn the results of the 2020 election. it's still unclear exactly what this committee will be investigating because its purpose has been left intentionally vague. unlike the january six committee, there is no specific inciting incident or of that that prompted the creation of this committee. the panel will be allowed to examine issues related to civil liberties and scrutinized -- treatment of americans and their data. they will also be able to review classified data that is

only shared with the intelligence committee, which could make it one of the more powerful committees on the hill this term. more importantly, it legitimizes the belief that some conservatives hold have the governments and other nefarious forces like big tech are conspiring against them and that is the point. the committee will allow republicans to continue on that narrative over the next couple of years, right up until the 2024 election. in siri, overnight to public officials and agencies is important. it's crucial. it's necessary to ensure that people in power are constantly held to account. but trump allies are now in position of power, and there are signs that some of these house republicans want to settle scores while they can. meanwhile, republicans slim majority in the house means the extremist wing of the party has a disproportionate amount of influence that can derail the agenda at anytime. so, what does this mean for the government, for the next two years? joining me now, joe walsh, former republican congressman from the state of illinois. he is a former 2020 presidential candidate.

he's the host of the podcast, white flag with joe walsh. also joining us, former democratic congressman, max rows of new york. he's a veteran of the united states army. he is the new vice president of the sue formed roop, a global intelligence and security consultancy. good morning to both of you. thank you for being here. i've got to say, you are both great friends of our show. but you are in different places. , max you are a moderate democrat who feels that democrats should be talking about issues that are important to the american people, as opposed to some of the stuff they might have been focused on. joe was, how do you say? fairly right-wing conservative. >>. yes >> member of congress. i want to start with you,. max when you were elected, and then when you were defeated, you made the point that democrats need to talk about things people care about. now, we're watching the republicans do what you warned democrats not to do. they've got endless committees and investigations talking

about stuff that, generally speaking, when you knock on doors and talk to constituents, people are not talking about. >> look, ali. thanks again for having me. every political dynamic often involves some type of extremism versus moderation. there are 18 republicans right now in the house caucus who represent biting districts. many more who represent quote unquote competitive districts. and what they want and what their constituents want is very simple. get stuff done. work with the other side, when and if it is reasonable. and the one clearly defining characteristic of everything the republican congress has done thus far is it doesn't result -- it won't resulted anything getting signed by the president of the united states. it won't resolve anything impacting pocketbook issues. everyone looked at the rules package as an isolated incident, where the moderates largely fell in line with kevin mccarthy, and the extremist wing of the republican party had their way. what we've seen in this past week is, again, there's been a

dominance of extremism. it's a scary thought to think that may be the dynamic going forward. >> let me ask you, joe. there is political preservation. there is the idea of holding on to power. there's the idea of making meaningful change that is driven by ideology. what do you make of what's going on with this far-right group in the house right now? what is it they want, and how will they succeed? how do they make sure that these 18 republicans who won in biden districts and many others who are otherwise moderates don't just sort of say, will vote with democrats on some of the things? >> well, they don't really care about that, ali. what they're doing is they are giving their base voters what they want. i'd add to what matt said. the ones of finding characteristic of these republicans, these next two years is revenge. these two years are all about revenge. the base of the republican party, ali, believes the 2020

election was stolen. house republicans reflect that belief. they are going to investigate fauci and covid. they are going to investigate big tech, who they thought helped steal the election. and they are going to go after the deep state, who they believe helped steal the 2020 election. i'm so glad you emphasized this in your opening. this is revenge. this is about settling scores, and for most of these republicans, ali, it will work. they don't care, necessarily, about these other moderate republicans. some of them, we've talked, don't even care if republicans retain control of congress in two years. this is about feeding the base. >> max, let me ask you about what democrats, what you would recommend that your democratic colleagues to about this right now, because either they've got to get six republicans to come over and support them on various legislation, including

the increasing of the debt limit, which they might actually get. that might be the one that a bunch of moderates come over and say, we won't be party to the economic destruction that is going to befall us if we don't. but how do democrats act in this thing? do they sort of stood to their guns and lose a lot of votes? >> it's going to be very scary if this political theater then gets transplanted on to a debt negotiation. because then what you're dealing with is the actual credit worthiness of the united states of america, and it's not just an economic issue. it's a national security issue. so, it's critical on the part of the democratic party, is that it has to be a party of reason, and always have to express, they in and day out, that is willing to work with reasonable republicans to get things done. now, keep in mind, the democratic caucus in the house needs to be allies of that group of 60 in the united states senate that will actually get things done in a

filibuster proof manner. that is how they got the infrastructure bill done. that's how they got the chips bill done. that is how anything will be done in 2023. lastly, the democratic caucus needs to be allies of those 18 or so republicans who are in biden districts that come november 2024, they don't want to be, or october, they don't want to be campaigning saying they didn't get anything done, and getting something done is defined by the president of the united states signing a bill into law. >> which is interesting, joe. there are a lot of republicans, both in the house and senate, who didn't support the, what was started as the build back better, became the inflation reduction act, and yet, while all that nonsense was going on in the house of representatives, all the attempts to get kevin mccarthy elected, mitch mcconnell and joe biden and kamala harris and another republican or touring the country, standing in front of bridges saying, see what we got done? it's strange at one level, there are republicans and democrats touting what max

would call achievements. >> yes, and i think that will continue. ali, this is analysis to when i was there and john boehner was speaker and we fought in the house. the republicans in the senate primarily had to work with democrats to get things done. i think this is why,, so we are still at the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the chaos we are going to see these next two years. because there is a caucus, as max said, of reasonable republicans, but this can't be emphasized enough. going back to the battle for the speaker a couple of weeks ago. it's not just these 14. the vast majority of this republican caucus is maga. they are election deniers. they blocked certification of the 2020 election. this is what mccarthy has to deal with. it's the vast majority of his caucus. they are still going to rule the ship here for these next two years. >> max, we often have you on

the show as a national security expert. you are an army veteran. i want to ask you about, there is a strange thing going on right now with republicans, that strangely want to cut the budget and they want the government to spend less, what is strange is the depth to which some republicans want to cut defense spending, and some of it seems tied to this idea of we're spending too much time and money defending ukraine. tell me your thoughts on that. >> it's shocking. to think that somehow, you can be the party of national security and nonetheless seek out reductions in military spending at a time where we are dealing with largely unprecedented challenges geopolitically, particularly from china as well as from russia. you can imagine this is a multi pronged, multi front, global, generations long conflict we are potentially in the midst of right now. again, though, let's fit into a larger political paradigm here.

joe is 100% right. this is about the narrative of grievance. don't send things to ukraine. don't send resources to ukraine when we have a border issue. don't spend more money on the military, when we have problems of inflation. and i think that mantra is not just short sighted, it is incredibly dangerous and could ultimately result in a far more expensive arms race, and god forbid, and actual war. >> guys, good to talk to you this morning. thank you for being with. us the former republican congressman, joe walshville on the way, the former democratic representative, max rose of new york. we appreciate your time. again, to fake degrees, a college volleyball ship never happened, the fabricated job resume, and even the circumstances surrounding the death of his own mother. we are going to have the latest on the web of lies spun by the congressman, george santos, or whatever his real name is, and how they are playing in his home district on long island.

house in -- investigating biden's handling of classified documents on top of the special counsel investigation that was just announced. plus, the velshi banned book club. today, we are featuring syrup deal her since magnum opus, their eyes were watching god. and naturally derided by critics, the novel has been embraced by literary circles and the public as one of the most important books of the harlem renaissance. it's a love story, and adventure tale, a combing of age exploration. i will be joined by princeton's dr. amani perry and dr. ibrahim ex kennedy, author of numerous books including children's adaptations of some of her stunts work. you don't wanna miss this one. e. stmwe're clearly different. (other money manager) different how? you sell high commission investment products, right? (fisher investments) nope. fisher avoids them. (other money manager) well, you must earn commissions on trades. (fisher investments) never at fisher. (other money manager) ok, then you probably sneak in some hidden and layered fees. (fisher investments) no. we structure our fees so we do better when our clients do better. that might be why most of our clients come from other money managers. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. bipartisanship is rare in

congress see states, however, some members of both parties agree the freshman congressman george santos of new york should resign after lying repeatedly about past experiences he campaigned on. despite apologizing for some of

six from his home state and two others. according to our nbc news tally. but santos says he's not going anywhere for the moment. during the recording of the podcast, steve bannon's war room, the new york republican says he will only resign if the 142,000 voters who put him in congress want him out. george santos has vowed to stay in office, comes as critics hone in on his wide-ranging campaign finance violations that are now coming to light. according to a new complaint filed with the federal election commission, santos allegedly masked the true source of his congressional campaigns funding. misrepresented the campus spending, and use his resources to cover personal expenses. joining me now is george felicia. send the town of great neck, long island, which is in congressman fandos's congressional district. good morning to you. have you found 142,000 constituents to resign yet, or what are they saying? it's a crazy story. >> yeah, good morning, ali. 142, 000, not yet, but we're finding more voices in that

voice of people calling on your chance to step down. this whole weather we're having here today might be indicative of a cold shoulder you might be receiving if he shows his face around here. the number of voters holding a rally what was outside presumably his close office. it's opened briefly yesterday. a few of his staffers in there trying to work, answering questions from reporters of whether or not george santos, what, infect show his face there. they couldn't give us an answer. the voters out there saying look, you have got to step down. the person you sold us on it's not who you have turned out to be. so they started a where's waldo like campaign, calling, or storage? hoping to get him trended on social media and basically putting pressure on him to step down and answer to some of the allegations, some of these falsehoods he's admitted to. so,. yes it's not looking very good for him if he does, in fact, to show up here in the district in the coming days. this is, again, growing the number of gop leadership in nassau county, also calling him to step down. i want you to take a look at

what one of the voters i spoke with told me yesterday. >> i want this man out. i want him out. he happened nerve to say that in two years, you can vote me out. i don't answer to politicians. i answer to my constituents. i'm one. and i want him out. i want to prosecuted, too. i would like them to -- at this guy. >> is there any scenario where he earns your trust again? >> never. absolutely never. he can go out, i don't consider him fit to shine my shoes. >> strong words there. not to say we didn't find at least one george santos supporter who said look, i want this guy to see his two years. i will support him. i want my vote counted. that is his rhetoric. he said the only way that tables will turn as if and when george santos is charged with a crime. then he said yeah, i guess i have no choice to ask him to resign. again, we are waiting to see if that wears george campaign

starts to take off on social media. we will keep an eye out, ali. >> i feel bad, because i've got a smile on my face, because i found a little funny. it's a funny. a. like i got elected to the u.s. state's house of representatives on the basis of lies that continue to unfold. it's not funny, but it's so unbelievable that you can't help but smirk at some of these. life these poor people in the district you are in, are represented by a guy who has been lying a lot. george, thanks for your reporting this morning. state warm. george police out in great neck, long island. the house judiciary committee, never let republican congressman and key trump ally jim jordan has launched an investigation into the obama era classified documents found in president biden's home, and in office of his. we are going to discuss the ramifications for the former white house official. my good friend, simone sanders, coming up next. coming up next gins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. mckenzie: being a first time parent is hard, you know?

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found in his private office in washington, d.c., and in the garage of his delaware home. the house judiciary committee began its investigation on friday. the committee now headed by the republican congressman jim jordan of ohio sent a letter to the attorney general, merrick garland, demanding all documents and communications between the justice department, the fbi, and the white house about the discovery. this comes one day after garland announced the appointment of a special counsel to look into the case. nbc news white house correspondent, monica alba, has more. >> mounting questions this morning over president biden's handling of classified documents from his time as vice president. >> the president ignoring reporters twice friday when pressed on have the sensitive records and is up in his private office and his bloomington, delaware home. the white house short on details. >> we're not going to get into any specifics from here. >> while pledging to cooperate with the department of justice review completely. >> we respect that process, and

that is what we are going to do. >> including worked with the newly appointed special counsel in the case. >> you need special counsel to investigate the biden mishandling episode, if you're going to do the same for trump. >> a move republicans in congress have called for all week. given the prosecutor investigating former president trump in the mar-a-lago documents matter. though, that probe involves hundreds of classified records seized by the fbi after mr. trump refused to return them to the national archives. on friday, the gop led house oversight committee formally requested more information from the biden white house. following the revelations about the various locations and contents of the classified material. including nbc's reporting that at least one document was marked top secrets. the highest classification in the u.s. government. according to a senior u.s. official and another person familiar with the matter. republicans on the house judiciary committee also launching an investigation into communication between the doj and the executive office of the

president. as president biden's lawyers insist, a thorough review will show these documents were inadvertently misplaced. stressing the white house acted promptly upon discovery of this mistake. >> people know i take classified documents and classified material seriously. >> thanks to monica alba for that report. joining me now, simone sanders townsend, the host of the show symone, here on msnbc. she is also the former chief spokesperson an adviser to president -- and kamala harris. thank you to be with us. the story develop, my first thought is, i want to talk to simone about this, because he worked in the white house. have -- weisman and i were talking about last year, and he said intent is everything here. donald trump knew he had those documents, they tried to get them back from him, at some, point he denied having them. he resisted giving that back, didn't give them the documents over when he was supposed to. and joe biden, we don't know whether to believe him or not,

he said, i didn't even though these documents were there. you've got a theory about how this could've happened. >> absolutely. i think a lot of people, ali, are wondering, how in the world could president biden not -- have documents in his personal possession? it's important for people to remember that a couple days before donald trump was -- then vice president biden was actually on an international trip. he was in ukraine, and before that, he was in davos. all this happening while his team is trying to close down and pack up his office, there are briefing memos that need to be put together, things like. that those briefing memos would be classified because they would contain information about world leaders and other countries, and one could imagine coming off of that trip just having to be out of not just the white house offices, but the naval observatory as well, the residents of the vice president, things are getting packed up, and documents could have been comingled in that

way. i also think it's important to note that when president biden was vice president, he -- secretary, and i think that is kind of -- what is important for people to know because the staff secretary is the arbiter of documents for the principle. vice president harris, staff secretary, when george reasonably bush was president, when court was president, they all have staffed presidents. i'm sure if vice president pence had a staff secretary. you do not have one particular person who is, that is their only job, to be the arbiter of the documents in which the -- vice president would see, and the documents the vice president brings back from a trip such as the one he was on, you can imagine how something like this is possible. >> your explanation is possible, and if that's true, nothing wrong with a special counsel investigation into. it will get to the bottom of it and we will hopefully, to not know the story. how do you distinguish, as people have been saying all

week on week, mostly on conservative tv, this is the same things he's hypocrites are saying donald trump did. what do you think the people who are saying oh, no, biden has done it now, and it's the same thing. >> i think the important thing here is the presidents personal staff were cleaning up and clearing at one of his former offices. they found in these documents, and they called the national archives. they called the white house and alerted the national archives. the next day, the documents were returned to the federal government. but national archives, and former president trump's case, they were like hey, we are missing about 13 boxes here! i wonder who has? them? they asked the former president, does he have those documents, and as you noted, there was a long slog of trying to get them back that culminated in the fbi searching the former presidents home. i think the last point here,, velshi, it is illegal to unknowingly take classified documents into one's possession. if you or i did what former president trump did, there would be no question.

we would be in jail right now. literally, we would be in jail. it is not illegal for documents to be inadvertently comingled. i say that because this is not an irregular case. there is a comingling of documents. i was on yesterday morning with jeremy bass, who was a former chief of staff of the cia, who talked about that if i went home, if someone right now until months at, oh my goodness, i happen to have this document from work and not supposed to have, there's a protocol of what to do and how to quickly return those documents. that is why the question of the special counsel for me, i'm like, i don't know. i understand -- and attorney general who is a judge, and because of his impartiality and need to be not seen as political, he made this move. i think the biden team believes they will be exonerated, if you will, when this review is complete. the question is, how does it play out for the american people? do they understand these

nuances? i think that's where the danger lies. >> i was talking to someone i respect highly yesterday whose literal hair was on fire about the fact that we, wait a second, it took the justice department and merrick garland like two days to make this decision? why has something not happened with donald trump yet? >> i think it's valid, but also, a special counsel is there to determine if charges should be brought. from all the conversation, everything i've read, the things i know, the justice department has said there is no question about president broke biden broke the law. if the justice department is reasonably if he did, i believe the explanation is due to the american people. why appointed special counsel? >> a question. i appreciate for joining us. symone sanders thompson, always makes a smarter. she's the former chief advisor to vice president kamala harris and the host of the program, symone, on msnbc. you can get your every saturday

and sunday afternoon at 4 pm eastern. be sure to tune in today. she's speaking with none other than the legendary referenced jesse jackson junior. still ahead, we've got today's meeting of the velshi banned book club, featuring their eyes were watching god by the great zora neale hurston. hurston it's a story under herself, finer -- embraced by the literary circles were beloved by the public decades after her death. we'll talk about her remarkable life and taken to her magnus opus with dr. amani perry and dr. abram ex candy, author of many books, including how to be an anti racist. racist it doesn't care if you have a date, a day off, or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema with steroid-free cibinqo. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments. and it's proven to help provide clearer skin and relieve itch fast. cibinqo continuously treats eczema whether you're flaring or not. cibinqo can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb.

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is nothing without its members, like 100 year old gracelyn, who wrote in from florida this is a quote, the freedom to read is an essential right and duty to our democracy. here is a photo of her, alongside a quilt that she made herself. showing covers of books and if in either challenged or banned. she says she made it to quote, make a statement. the books need to be proudly displayed, protected, and read, and quote. if you look closely at the quilt, you could see some familiar titles there, some that we have proudly red together, and discussed on the velshi banned book club, like beloved by tony morrison, and some others who planned to feature this year like malice, by art spiegelman. i want to thank grace from the bottom of my heart. was a book club without its members? you should all take a page from grace's book and sent us the title she wants to read and the

authors from which, from who you want to hear. email us at my story i feel she thought calm right there on your screen. after a quick commercial break, today's meeting is in session. we're digging into their eyes were watching god, by the unparalleled zora neale hurston. you are watching velshi. e watching velshi.

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author, zora neale hurston, is a story in and of itself. it is certainly one worth telling. she was a multifaceted author. she wasn't actually just an author, i did not, french novelist, a folklorist, a voodoo expert, as a filmmaker. she is considered by scholars to be the most prolific black woman writer of the 19 twenties and 30s. it said she wrote her magnum opus, their eyes were watching god, in just seven weeks on a trip to haiti. like the strike of a match, person burned bright and then was gone. she was buried in unmarked paupers grave in florida in 1960 at the age of 69. but in death, it turns out the

flame was actually just smoldering. with the help of alice walker, author of the color purple, and the essay that walker wrote in the early 1970s, both the public and the literary circles embraced hurston. today, she is considered one of the most influential black writers not just of the harlem renaissance, one of all-time, alongside legendary authors like tony morrison and maya angelou. today, velshi banned book club feature is the a for mentioned their eyes were watching god, by the unparalleled zora neale hurston. but steven suits. our protagonist is the beautiful middle aged janie crawford. she was raised by her grandmother, nanny, whose life is shaped by her experience conflate in the american south and by a fraught relationship with jamie's mother. throughout their eyes, we are watching god, janie mary's three times. once at the behest of her grandmother, once as a trophy wife, and then ultimately, for love, to the much younger tea cake. like hurston, the novel isn't just one thing. it's a love story. as a feminist declaration, a

coming of age exploration, and a celebration of the south. i read it as a love story. a story about self love. janie, a foil to her old school grandmother, can choose a relationship based on her own emotional desires, and not just as a means for safety and stability. at its core, their eyes were watching god it's an exploration of modern black womanhood. it tells the story of a woman searching for dignity and agency. even today, more than 85 years since the novels publication, the -- concept that women, especially black women, are worthy of the sort of love they want and to have the right to choose remains revolutionary in some circles. in 1997, 60 years after its publication, their eyes were watching god but challenge for ban in virginia. the reason? quote, sexual explicitness and language. you heard this one before. it's a pattern we continue to see among the collection of books featured here on the velshi banned book club. a parent cites quote, sexual explicitness and language, but

what they really want to avoid is engaging in the pages of the book. it's a conversation about race, about sexual identity, about female agency. their eyes were watching god packs a one-two punch that explores both the reality of like this in america and female sexuality. it spurs important conversations, conversations that can and do contribute to the empowerment of young women who are reading this book in their english classes. right after the break, i'm joined by friends of the show, dr. amani perry, director of african american studies at princeton houston, who has written extensively about zora neale hurston, and ibram x kendi, founding director of the boston university center for anti racist research. he has produced six children's adaptations of hurston's writing. you are watching velshi. watching velshi. [ tires squeal, crash ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive gets you right back to living the dream. now, where were we? [ cheering ] type 2 diabetes? now, where were we? discover the ozempic® tri-zone.

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velshi banned book club commence. i am thrilled to be joined by dr. imani perry, professor of african american studies at princeton university. doctor perry has written has written extensively about zora neale hurston and your critical works. and doctor ibram x kendi, the founding director of the boston university center for anti racers research. she is a new york times bestselling author, right in numerous. children's book adaptation of her sons writing, magnolia flowers up now, the making of butterflies will be out in march, and doctor perry is the author of books including south to america. we have had the privilege of having these two guests on our

show before and we are happy to invite you back. thanks for being here on the velshi banned book club. there is so much of sura in their eyes were watching god. tea cake, inspired by one of zora's partners. dr. perry, i want to ask you. much of the book takes place in eaton berg, florida, where zora was raised. you've studied the south and you know it well. is this an example of writings writing what they know about, or how much do you find this to be autobiographical? >> certainly, it's her writing what she knows about. you have to remember that sort of a strength as an anthropologist to what he knows about is pretty extensive. she was writing against a backdrop of, a period when people thought that southern black rural culture was in decline. it was dying out. and part of her objective was to show, know it's vibrant. it's. rich is complex. so, she captures that. she has these vivid characters

and the sense of life in florida. this is a complex place skip. there's migrant laborers. people descended from slavery. there's recent though he meehan immigrants. there's indigenous people, native americans,. they're so it's something she knows, but it's something he knows intimately and intellectually. >> ibram, let me ask you about when this book was first published. it was slammed by hurston's male contemporaries. -- a prolific author in his own right, credited with changing racial relations in the u.s., famously the righted than all evil, calling it a minstrel show turned that mix the white folks laugh. talk to me. this is one example. there were lots of strong reactions. why and what were they based on, and why did they happen? >> unfortunately, if you were reading their eyes were watching god as a black american through the white guys, in other, words you are thinking about how white people may be experiencing it, then

you are going to read a very differently than if you are reading it from your own experience, from your own life, from your own values. i think zora wrote for black people. but there were other risks novelist at the time who, in many ways, wrote for white people. they wrote characters who were either exceptional or characters who were living under the foot of white racism. and they did that because they wanted to expose white racism or demonstrate black excellence, thought zora thought it was important to demonstrate the complexity of black people, the imperfections of black people. that is actually what makes black eagle human. >> dr. perry, there their eyes were watching god has got three narrators in. it's janie, freebie, and i hurston herself at hearts. tell me about the significance of. that there's a call and response style in the book. >> sure. there is actually a conversation that is happening.

there is this person who is not formerly educated, but she has this passion for life. she's imaginative. she desires play and creativity and the like. and in a way, her sons voice actually supplements what janie is yearning for. we have hurston's incredible use of language and the way in which she draws from the folk vernacular to build these beautiful sentences. you have her best friend, phoebe, janie's best friend, and any ways, janie it's making her case to. she's explaining her life. she is a person who was rejected by many for not fulfilling expectations of respectable woman, and phoebe actually is an audience, in many ways, the public art akin to. we actually begin to empathize with janie through her eyes. >> dr. kendi, this is an interesting situation where we have a book that young people should read, or at, least should have access to, but

you've done something else. you've actually helped create children's adaptations of it. tell me about that. why is it important for children to have access to her stun and what sparked the discussion about these children at adaptations are involved in? >> at first, i think you mentioned her book being challenged in 1987 at a high school in virginia, stonewall jackson high school. that was actually my high school. i ended up not reading zora neale hurston in high school. i just think it's incredibly important for not just high school students, even elementary age students, even our babies, the youngest of children, to be reading the beautiful literature and short stories and the folklorist that zora created as early as possible. and i think that is -- has propelled me and driven me to adapt some of zora's treasure trove for children.

>> imani, zora neale hurston and alice walker are linked because of alice walker's essay on hurston in 1970. the image of walker looking through the field, looking hurston for's grave is visceral. tell me about that. >> sure. one of the things that's extraordinary, and this is not unusual, but that's the loss of so many extraordinary writers, particularly black women writers, and this tradition of going back, and that's incredibly robust in the 70s, one walker is doing this, and restoring these rioters to their appropriate prominence. so, alice walker actually embrace his hurston as her literary ancestor and franks for back to us. we wouldn't have hurston the way we do without alice walker. i think that's tradition is a really important piece of what has happened in the context of african american literature

over the course of the 20th century. >> dr. kendi, we finally see the title, the reference to their eyes were watching god, in chapter 18 of the book during a hurricane. the passage in the book reads, the wind came back with trump or fury, and put out the light for the last time. they sat in company with the others in other shanties, their eyes straining against crude walls, and their souls asking if he meant to measure their puny might against his. they seemed to be staring at the dark, but their eyes were watching god. end quote. tell me about this moment. >> let me actually just share, i think, what it meant to me and the beauty about fiction is that we can all interpret it in different ways. you know, towards the end of the book, zora also writes janie stating that there are two things everyone needs to do for themselves.

one is to be able to go to god, and the other is to learn to love oneself. so, as you mentioned earlier, the critical importance of self love, particularly among black women, but really, for us, all is one of the defining themes of this text. in many ways, we're watching god, we're also watching love. >> doctor perry, before when i was doing that set up in the last break, i could see the two of you sitting there, waiting, because my director puts it up on the screen. i saw that when i talked about the fact that i read as a love story about self love, i saw you sort of nodding. there was something there that you can connect with. >> yeah, it's an incredible love story. it's sort of extraordinary that resonates so deeply even today. there is all kinds of ambition in the novel. the men who janie partners with has various ambition, build a town, achieve wealth, be the

best gambler in the world. janie just wants to have a light filled with beauty and love and play and the light and joy. and to have that portraits set against the ugliness, in many ways, of the jim crow south is really, really potent. it still resonates, right? it's a fundamentally human desire to have a beautiful life. even under the circumstances. >> it is the universality of this book. dr. amani perry is a director of african american studies at princeton university. ibram x kendi it's the founding director of the boston university center for anti racist research. i'm not done with them. i will say this more where that came from. i'm going to continue the conversation with imani perry and ibram x kendi, and in a few days, you will be able to stream the extended cut of this on peacock. that's it for me. thank you, for catch me back here 10 am eastern on velshi.

remember, velshi is available as a podcast for this weekend just getting. up maybe your in california or phoenix or something. you can listen to the entire show on the go at anytime. subscribers listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. stay right where you are, my friends cory coffin picks up our news coverage right now. age right now. >> good morning and welcome in, i'm cory coffin in new york. we are one week into the new republican house majority, and as promised, president biden is already under investigation by a correctional committee. the house judiciary committee has launched an investigation into biden's potential mishandling of classified documents, including one marked with the highest level of classification. the documents were found by biden's lawyers at his home in delaware and in a locked office closet in the penn biden center, where he host his think tank. all documents were voluntarily turned over to the national archives. despite the vast differce