when kids try and put them on. i will add the new doll includes for devers skin tones and hair textures. and finally, one single winning ticket was sold for the mega millions one point 35 billion dollar jackpot. lottery officials say it was sold at the home town gas and grill in lebanon, maine. the winner or winners, for the ticket will claim that second largest prize in mega millions history. the store that saw the ticket, they get a bonus of $50,000. it's no billion-plus but something right? that wraps it up for me this hour, i'm lindsey reiser, simone starts right now. >> greetings everyone, you are watching simone. today, we are getting to the classified documents that we found president biden's delaware home and then his former washington office. special counsel has been appointed, my republican friends say there is a double standard for former president

trump's document the buckle of mar-a-lago. but i have news for them, it is not the same. plus, is america going to be fault on its loans this week? treasury secretary janet gallon sent a dire warning to members of congress. what could that mean for the u.s. economy? and whether republican-led house will avert a crisis or intentionally create one? i'll be talking to diane macron across woman omar and brandon williams in just a moment. as today we began our new series, living black history. or we are celebrating people who have been catalyst of change in our country. people like reverend jesse jackson who is joining us later this hour. i am simone sanders townsend, and i have something to say.

what a week y'all. the pace of politics in washington is set at warp speed, let's start with some breaking news. just a few hours ago, we learned that more pages with classified markings were found in president biden's home in delaware. this is one day after is inculpated found in a box court in a room adjacent to his garage. five additional pages were identified in the same spot on thursday. why did take today to find six cages and why are we just finding out about this today. white house lawyer richard solver issued a statement saying in part the president's personal attorney's conduct in the searches do not have active security clearances. wednesday, the president's personal attorney's discovered one document with the classified markings consisting of one page in a room adjacent to the garage. at that point, the president's personal attorney stop searching the immediate area where the document was found. because i have a security clearance, i went to wilmington thursday evening to facilitate providing the documents the presidents personal counsel

found on wednesday to the justice department. while i was transferring to the doj officials who accompanied me, five additional pages will classification markings were discovered among the material with it, for a total of six pages. the doj officials with me immediately took possession of them, the statement goes on to say the white house is cooperating with the new special counsel. now, at first glance, the daily trip of news about classified documents from the upon administration and found that the pen biden center and at the presidents home in delaware, while it may seem similar to former president donald trump's own document debacle. but the former presidents allies are counting on you not to dig deeper. why? because you will realize that the differences far outweigh the similarities, okay? on thursday, attorney general merrick garland task the trump appointed former u.s. attorney robert her to look into the biden classified occupants. here is a g garland? >> the extraordinary circumstances here require the appointment of a special

counsel for this matter. this appointment underscores for the public, the department's commitment to both independents and accountability and particularly sensitive matters. and to making decisions indisputably guided only by the facts and the law. >> oh, okay. while republicans have predictably led to compare this to the current criminal investigation to former president donald trump's mishandling of classified documents. but there are nuances here. real nuances here people. okay, you will notice that this biden saga unfolded over the course of two months. that's because. immediately after, the presidents own lawyers found the documents, has team return them to the national archives. in donald trump's case, the archives are actually looking for the hundreds of classified documents he was you know, just hanging around in mar-a-lago. it took several months of requests and at the i search before the documents were

finally back in the possession of the governments. donald trump continues to claim that the documents belong to him, all while attack in the department of justice and the national archives are just doing their jobs. the same house republicans who have defended trump's document debacle? well now, they are jumping in to investigate president biden. the house judiciary committee has sent a letter to garland demanding all documents of communications surrounding the matter. there are some things to discuss your people, everything is out on the up and up and let's unpack all of this. joining me now to discuss is democratic congresswoman ilhan omar of minnesota. welcome to you congresswoman, i represent you coming and being on set. i want to start by getting your reaction to the news of today, six pages now, no additional pages of classified documents of having been fined that president biden's home in delaware? >> well one i am glad that there is a special prosecutor that has been appointed to this. >> you are glad, tell me why?

>> yes because anytime there's a deviants and regards to security protocols, that should be taken serious, it should be investigated. what i find interesting as that republicans who have defended trump after he literally stole classified documents, refused to turn them over, lied about having them. made of some story about how he declassified them. had to have his house rated in order for those documents to be found are now only interested in investigating biden who has cooperated. who his own staff and former staff have themselves turned these documents in. so you have to understand right? republicans are not really interested in upholding the law, and following security protocols. what they're interested in is playing political game and now only wanting to investigate biden. >> we are going to talk about

political games, speaker mccarthy and a number of republicans have called for you not to be seated on committees. is that correct? you are currently not, you do currently don't have a committee assignment? >> so no committee assignments have been divvied out on the democratic side and on the majority of the republican side as well, this hearing committee is not actually done that. what i do want the public to understand is that since i've gotten sworn in in 2019, my first term, mccarthy has been promising to his donors and the republican base that i should not sit on the foreign affairs committee. and now you have to look at this in a way that sort of exposes their hypocrisy right? republicans say they don't really believe in cancel culture. they say they don't believe and stopping debate, that they are not scared of you know people having deviance in political opinions.

they specifically wanted to silence my voice as the only african born to ever serve on the foreign affairs committee where i have been successfully doing my job for the last two terms and now look forward to doing it on a committee that no one of my background, no one of my ethnicity, of my culture has ever gotten the opportunity to be able to do so. >> anywhere from democratic leadership on what they will do on this? >> the democrats have appointed me to that committee, twice already. they are going to appoint me to the committee and they are going to do everything to make sure that my unique voice, that my constituents continue to say they went on that committee is on that committee. >> treasury secretary gallaudet read before the weekend announced that the united states would hit its debt limit on january 19th. that is literally right around the corner and that even drastic measures from the treasury department would only keep us afloat until june of

this year. how confident are you that congress will do its job to avoid american defaulting? >> i wish that i was confident but we have to understand that the republicans now have the majority. their agenda has been a dangerous one as they have exposed it already. i don't think that they are going to be able to come together. we already know that speaker mccarthy an order to -- >> for the american people. >> yes it is dire, that means he education system will not be funded. basic infrastructure, health care, all of the things that the american people rely on are not going to be funded. this is the kind of thing that people usually in washington, we might not get along on a lot of things. this is the kind of thing that we have always come together to try and make sure that our bills are paid as a country. and i don't think that the republicans are going to be able to do that and the american people are going to suffer because of it. if you remember in 2019 when i

got sworn in, it was the longest shut down in history. it might be worse this time around. >> all right well congresswoman ilhan omar, thank you very much for coming in. i will ask one of your republican colleagues about this very thing, right now. thank you so much for your time. i want to bring in republican congressman, brian williams. congratulations, part of brandon williams. congratulations to you sir on your new position representing new york's 22nd district. let's pick up with you where i left off with congresswoman omar. the washington post is reporting that republicans that they filed a plan to not lift the nation's debt ceiling without major spending cuts from the biden administration. congressman, are you willing to let the country face defaults on its loans to get the spending cuts? tsi don't think anybody's ever really succeeded in using the debt limit as you know leverage including you know threatening to shut down the government. i think really, it is a clock that ticks and that says hey we

have to come together in a bipartisan way. i know that jason smith, the new chairman of the house ways and means, has reached out to senator schumer and to the president and said look, let us sit down and figure out how we can work with that. hopefully, there will be good intent on both sides. >> all right, that is hope that i think it's good for the american people. we will be watching this fight. something else developing and washington this week is this republican-led house judiciary committee officially launching an investigation into president biden's handling of classified documents. what do you want to see happen with that investigation? do you think it is proper? >> well simone, that is an excellent question. you know jokingly i would say it looks like it is cara log overseas mar-a-lago. but i will tell you that i served as the strategic missile officer on a trident class

submarine. i had far above top secret clearance for that job, you might imagined. i have been held to those standards, what to do with classified material and i can assure you that we take it very seriously. including you know some of the most sensitive material in our government is what iran was responsible for. i think the attorney general said it best. i think he said we will follow the facts and apply the law. and i hope that he does that equally, minus the politics. i think that if anyone who has served in the military and held the responsibility for classified material knows that they are very serious about those things. it should be applied evenly. >> so congressman, would you say that, would you say there is a difference between president, the case of president biden documents th say they found and immediately turned over to the national archives and president trump, for the national archives had to go and get

documents from him because he was not forthcoming about that information? >> yes, i think that simone to be perfectly honest, i am not aware or don't follow those nuances very closely. but i will say that i am very concerned about how the documents were handled with president biden. that they were in unsecured facilities that were not locked up, that did not have security. mar-a-lago -- >> yes the documents were comingled, sorry to cut you off. the documents were, he did not know that the white house is saying the president had no knowledge of those documents. one of the nuances president chomp is claiming that those documents were his but this investigation we are all going to be watching. i want to get your feedback on george santos because you are one of eight republican lawmakers now were calling for him to resign. this is after he straight-up lied about his background. you have two house democrats from the state of new york, dan goldman and richie torres, they

have actually introduced something called the santos act. it would basically penalize any lawmaker who lies about their qualifications. do you think congress should pass that bill or if not is there anything else that congress can do here? >> well, this is -- first of all, it is, from a media standpoint, it is entertaining. it is like tennis. it is george santos, more documents discovered, george santos. so, it's an exciting week for media. but regarding george, i don't think we should pass that bill. there is a process. i have not spoken to speaker mccarthy specifically about this, but the speaker has said that he is going to rely on the ethics committee and the fcc to investigate these things. i think there's a lot there to look at. so, he is committed to due process. the speaker cannot, to my knowledge, unilaterally there was someone out of congress. and so, there is a process in place. i think we should make sure

that that is followed. and to me, it seems like the speaker is committed to that. >> all right, congressman, i think there's a lot of people out there who say how one world can this man be elected to congress? and maybe congress should do something about keeping that from happening again. thank you. we're out of time, but you're welcome to come back anytime. congressman williams, appreciate you. thank you. coming up, everyone, on symone, you know we're gonna get more on the trump appointed prosecutor. for merrick garland, the attorney general, has tapped to lead investigation of president biden classified documents. what is the biden mood? well, u.s. attorney barb mcquade will be here to discuss. but, first, my colleague lindsey visor is here with today's other top news stories. lindsey, what do you have? >> simone, thank you, some stories we're watching this hour. crews are now surveying the damage caused by more than a dozen tornadoes that swept through parts of alabama and georgia. drone video shows widespread damage in downtown selma, we are trees and power lines are down. at least nine people are dead. in ukraine, russia is

bombarding major cities with a new wave of missiles. in dnipro, officials say at least five people were killed. and first responders are searching through the rubble of an apartment block. the capital of kyiv, officials say, russia targeted key infrastructure sites. ukrainian president zelenskyy vowing to find and punish, quote, everyone involved. and the winning mega millions ticket was sold in maine. the whopping one point 35 billion dollar jackpot is the second largest prize in the game's history. the store that sold the winning ticket will get a 50,000 dollar bonus. more symone, after the break. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (bridget vo) with thyroid eye disease... i hid from the camera. and i wanted to hide from the world. for years, i thought my t.e.d was beyond help... ...but then i asked my doctor about tepezza. (vo) tepezza is the only medicine that treats t.e.d. at the source not just the symptoms. in a clinical study, more than 8 out of 10 patients taking tepezza

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>> as we have been reporting, white house lawyer, which heard cyber says five more pages with classified markings were found at president biden's home in delaware. that makes a total of six pages, folks. this comes just two days after attorney general merrick garland appointed as special

counsel to review the president's handling of these classified materials. let's bring in barbara mcquade. she's a former u.s. attorney in michigan and an msnbc legal analyst, and she's here to answer our questions today. barb, very happy you are here. let me just start here. that's the question i have. did merrick garland needs to appoint a special counsel? was there a legal need here? >> no. the regulations really give the attorney general discretion to decide when it is appropriate to appoint special counsel. it does task him with doing a preliminary check on the case to determine whether a special counsel is merited. and that is what he asked the u.s. attorney in chicago to do, trump appointee, named john loud, who was carried over and continues to serve in this administration. and he even determined, he thought there was at least something to investigate here. and then, merrick garland thought that in light of what he called the extraordinary circumstances, the fact that the president and his boss have engaged in mishandling of

documents, that he thought it was prudent to do this. i don't think it's legally required, but it is done to give a level of independents and public confidence in the investigation. >> so, barbara, you have been a u.s. attorney, obviously, you are very familiar with the workings of the justice department. was there ever were -- there and there ever be a conversation about whether or not there was concern about equating around this investigation, the equated to president trump's investigation, or is the thought process inside the building where that investigation is happening, there is a silo over here, and a silo over there? >> well, i think, generally, at lower levels, there are silos. you look at the case, based on facts, and you make a decision based on facts and that case alone. although there is an effort to have some uniformity, so that you treat cases that are alike, and different cases differently. and i think, as you already have hit on, symone, some really important differences exist in this case. both cases involve the mishandling of classified

information. but the similarities, that's where they end. it is like akin to driving your car intentionally to a crowd of people. what we know about the biden documents is that he carelessly, mistakingly kept some documents at home. that is worth for investigation to find out why they were there, and whether there is damage to the investigation committee as a result. maybe there is more evidence that suggests there is a crime, we'll find out. in the trump instance, we know that not only did he have more than 300 classified documents. we know that he refused to give them back, even after the national archives asked for more than 18 months, and then, when he was served with a grand jury subpoena, he turned over a small envelope of documents, and said, that's all there is. and in fact, there were 20 more boxes stored in the basement that they had used a search warrant to get. those are the kinds of aggravating factors that make one case prosecutable, and another not. so, of course, it will matter, what the facts are, if they develop, and if additional factors come out in the biden

case. but as i see, the two, the trump case screams for prosecution, and the biden case at the moment is nothing more than a whisper. >> do you think this puts any pressure on jack smith's investigation into president trump, former president trump? >> i don't. i think each of these special counsels will take their jobs seriously, to be professional, follow the facts, and make the best decision they make. i'll tell you the one thing that sits in the back of my mind there, but symone, is that merrick garland does know something we don't know, and that is -- >> and what is that, barbara, what is that? >> well, here's what i think it is. it is the likelihood of whether criminal charges are likely in the case of trump. and so, if they are likely against donald trump, then one thing you might want to do is appoint a special counsel but to make sure critics understand that we are basing decisions on facts and law, and not politics. and so, the fact that the biden case happened doesn't make the trump charges less likely to happen. but the fact that garland named special counsel makes me feel like he might know the charges

are coming against donald trump. >> barbara mcquade, all right then, well, i'll take your word for it, barbara, i'll take a word for it. thank you very much. >> thanks, symone. >> look, i know so many people still have questions. barbara answered a lot of them for us. but they still have questions about how is it even possible for president biden that had classified documents misplaced. up next, i will have some context on that, and my political panel to join me to break it all down. context is key, y'all. and later in the hour -- the reverend jesse jackson joins me live for a very important discussion about his role in our country's history. keep it right here. you're watching symone. ♪ ♪ ♪ iscover... (laughs) they're gonna need more space... yep...the house... we gotta sell it! we gotta stage it. excuse me. fix it up. they don't pre-rinse. strangers touching everything. or, skip the hassles and sell with confidence to opendoor. close in a matter of days.

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asking, how could president biden have had classified documents from his time as vice president without knowing? well, i'm here to tell you, it is actually more plausible than you might think. are you ready to get into the weeds? okay, so, the president and the vice president, they both have staff secretaries. and basically, the staff secretary's job is to be the arbiter of the documents that go to and come from each of their principles. and the final days of his vice president see, then vice president biden, he had a lot of trips. they didn't have a step staff secretary. and that's an important note. now, literally, four days before donald trump took office, then vice president biden was taking diplomatic trips abroad. he took one to ukraine, where he met with then-president pedro core shank of. now, why do i mention this trip

specifically? here's why. in a letter to attorney general garland announcing its investigation, the house judiciary committee signaled it was examining unconfirmed reports that at least some of the classified documents had to do with ukraine. the oversight committee has also issued a statement, promising to wield their investigative power. speaking from experience, y'all, i did used to work for a vice president, an internal memos regarding any world leaders, they're likely going to be classified, even for a detail as simple as whether or not they take sugar in their coffee. again, at the time of the ukraine trip, then vice president biden, he did not have a staff secretary. i'm actually told, he did not have a staff secretary at all in their office. and his office was literally being packed up during his travels, with tens of millions of documents being transported to the national archives, and coming off of an international trip, literally, four days before donald trump was sworn into office, it is quite possible, quite possible, that a handful of classified memos

from the troops abroad got comingled with personal ones. that was certainly back up to the presidents claim, that he did not know these documents were in his position. that's my take. let's discuss. danielle moodie, okay, she's here, she's the host of a podcast, former republican congressman david jolly is also here. he's an msnbc political analyst. and charles blow, our friend of the show, and sometimes host, when i have to go on vacation, he's also here. and he is a columnist for the new york times. danielle, i'm gonna start with you won this. you don't, joe biden, he has been doing things by the books. he's like the most by the book person i know, frankly. and he is really limited his public response since this investigation has been unfolding. nbc news is reporting that democratic allies, though, are growing frustrated with this muted response. but from my perspective, i think this is where the dnc and the rest of the democratic apparatus should be stepping in, to make sure the nuances of this case are not getting lost in the public discourse. currently, people are just out there comparing joe biden and donald trump's investigations.

what do you say? >> i mean, the reality here, there is no comparison between what donald trump did, which is still documents, and then lie about them, and be asked multiple times over the course of a year and they have to return those documents into the national archives and refuses to do so. and then, it has to have a range, quote unquote, on mar-a-lago in order to retrieve the documents that he says that or his. joe biden on the other hand, his lawyers mistakingly found a couple of documents. they then called the national archives, saying we had these documents, and we turn them. open up their own investigation and their own search, and then, we turn those documents. how is this even the same? and the work that the democrats need to be doing right now is not being frustrated with joe biden. it is actually lifting up the fact that donald trump is a criminal, it's a thief, and that he has had four criminal charges referred to by the january 6th committee to the department of justice, because he's a criminal. there is a big difference here. and i'm so tired of the lack of

nuance around the conversation. >> lack of no one's, and as i was telling my team, he's just -- these democrats complaining to nbc news, just merely mouth. congressman, republicans really backed donald trump after a raid. i don't even understand that. i mean, i also wanna bring this part of the conversation about the judiciary committee, you know, mentioning a letter repore documents found in president biden's office in washington, d.c. had to do with ukraine. now, you all just heard me lay out why that might be the case. as, regardless of that reason, i do think that can be red meat for republicans. what are your thoughts there? how could democrats counteract that? and i just spoke to a republican congressman, congressman williams of new york, who said i -- asked about the nuances and the differences, and he said i'm not really familiar with the nuances. is that what we can expect from my republican friends? >> oh, you are going to expect a lot worse.

you were talking to a new york republican. look, danielle is exactly right. the narrative of each case is exceedingly different. and, you know, barb mcquade was making this political argument, i will. i think biden should welcome the special counsel, because ultimately, i think that contrast is going to exonerate joe biden, and possibly lead to criminal charges against donald trump. so, look, i think the special counsel was necessary. but i also think it should be welded. let's set that aside for a moment. simone, sometimes, i come on this network to think like a republican. i had a 20 hour road trip the day this broke, and i turned over to fox news, and newt gingrich was talking about the biden crime family. and the fact that china had given money to the pen biden institute, and it was tied into hunter biden, and these documents were being pushed illegally to foreign adversaries. that was within hours. so, can we expect the house judiciary committee to try to put that narrative out on the street? absolutely, and they'll

probably already doing it. we don't do know once well, we do partisanship and tribalism well, which goes to your point, danielle, the democrats have to lean into this contrast, and say we have a president who has cooperated, who has shown what you are supposed to do when documents turn up. and it is the model of a president in the situation, and that contrast is going to lead to a searing indictment of the former president donald trump. >> well, one would hope accountability is coming. charles, i saw you laugh during some of what congressman was saying. look, i think the opinion pages i have seen lots of nuance, surprisingly in the papers of record across this country. how do you think the media apparatus should handle this investigation, but also, donald trump's? i think that the decision they need, oh my goodness, new documents found, it is newsworthy, yes. but how should they be talking about? >> well, first, i was smiling

because i was thinking who takes 20 hour road trip with these gas prices. i mean, -- >> i had to. [laughter] >> okay, so, well, here's the thing about these two cases. i think everyone here has made the point, and rightfully so, that there is a lot of context and nuance between them. the problem becomes that propaganda is a blunt force instrument. we live in an age where people are searching for confirmation. they have a bias towards that confirmation. they want simplistic understanding of things, and saying there is a very simple understanding of the thing. and so, you have the political reality operating separately from the legal reality. on the legal front, he's a very, these are very different cases, and anyone -- the lawyer or prosecutor looking at them, would see them very different.

and all of us, you know, smart people pay attention to this on a deep level. we'll also do the same. the hope had been, i think for democrats, that this was such a flagrant issue for donald trump that it crossed over, that even among some of his supporters, people in the middle definitely, and that they also said, regardless of how i feel about either of these two people, he should've taken those things home. the problem becomes that this kind of pushes it back towards the edges for people who want to believe that there is reasons to defend donald trump, they latch on to it, and they just look as them as saying, and not different. and for democrats, they lose a little bit of that advantage of being able to simply say, or have a simple message about, he should've done that when there is some saying, not all the same, not nearly all the same, but there's some same because both people had documents in their position that they should not have had.

you know, i think the idea -- i think media is doing what it should, which is to lay out the problems and the nuances. the problem is i don't think it's things in very deeply in this highly politicized, highly kind of conflict oriented public and electorate. >> the question really is, how is this breaking through? we see fox, right? fox news -- what are the pages of local newspapers across the country look like? we're gonna take a look this week, and we'll get back into it on saturday. danielle, i want you to weigh in on this, as well. but i want to throw something else, i'm gonna throw another wrench in their. given all of this, rightfully so, this has dominated cable news headlines, this has dominated group chats, my political group chats, okay? it has dominated the papers. while all of this is happening, the white house seemed continuing to truck forward. the president, the vice president, were both traveling this week. the vice president was in michigan on friday, with secretary granholm, talking about administration policy and

implementation about partisan infrastructure deal. they are gonna continue to do what they're doing. the question is, is anybody seeing or hearing all of that, when we're all focused on the documents? >> that then we deal will latch on to what's hot at the moment. that's the job. that's what gets ratings. the purpose here and the need is for our democrats, all of them, democrats in the senate and the house to be able to be out front, be the mouthpiece for this administration, do what they're doing for the american people. he's not sitting around in the white house throwing catch-up at the wall, freaking out about the fact that he's been found out. that's exactly what donald trump has done, right? and so, let us make the case clear that these two men are not the same. these two cases are not the same. and so, while the media wants to be caught up and saying that, oh my god, there are documents in his house that are like, six pages is what i heard you say, symone, six pages!

we were talking about boxes from donald trump. we know that the man is in debt. we know that he is cozy with our enemies, right? in north korea and russia. so, let us continue that narrative, while saying, guess what the biden administration is doing? delivering for the american people. >> all right, well, i will note, i will think that the documents is newsworthy, it is news-y, and it is quite unfortunate for people currently think it's a danger political avenue. but there is nuance. lucky for the rest of us, myself especially, danielle, david, and charles are all sticking with us because we have a lot more to discuss. ahead we -- have to dig into the george santos problem, and how the new republican congressman from new york responded to foreign calls, his resignation about his past, the debt limit, lots of things to get into, folks. ♪ ♪ ♪ ec otc each morning blocks heartburn all day and all night. prilosec otc reduces excess acid for 24 hours, blocking heartburn before it starts. one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

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real name, still says he won't resign. the new york republican apologized after lying about multiple facets of his resume. you really would think that this freshman congressman would devote all resources to serving his constituents, and working to reopen their communities trust, right? but santos district office did not even open until yesterday. and we checked. some of his constituents led by democratic nassau county legislator have launched a, where is george campaign, calling out santos for not being available to them. a political panel is back with us. danielle moodie, former congressman david jolly, and charles blow. congressman -- is he, like, george santos, better know his constituents, it might be a good idea. does not seem like a priority for him? what's going on? >> george santos is not going anywhere. someone who lies his way to congress with zero self reflection and zero concern is not going to be moved, moved to the public by hearing these

calls for resignation. so, the only way he goes anywhere is in two years if he loses reelection, or if this turns into a criminal investigation, particularly around the source of the 700, $750,000. the house rarely will move to reject somebody without criminal charges or criminal somebody -- i think i'm gonna pointing, point out, since we're focusing on context, republicans calling on him to resign now are about a two-week late. so -- they needed the vote for kevin mccarthy's speakership but -- >> talk about, it david jolly, talk about it! >> listen, if george santos have not been seated, one of those five that finally in the middle of the night moved to present, would have not actually voted to mccarthy. instead, they took the santos mccarthy vote to put mccarthy over the line for speaker. >> oh, goodness. you know, danielle, this whole scandal situation of george santos, he is now a pariah of sorts among some of his

colleagues. and even though he's presented himself as somewhat of a moderate on the campaign trail, he's now appearing on steve bannon show, alongside matt gates, of all people. i mean -- i'm concerned about the loss of credibility here, just for the process of campaigns. are you concerned? what is this, rightward, shift? is this what he's always been? >> i don't think that george santos knows what he has always been. the untalented mr. ripley is just emblematic of who the republican party is. but it's hard for them to parcel out who they're going to attack with their lies, because a lot of them got to their positions because of the length that they do. george santos just happens to be really bad at it, right? and also, as david was all pointing out, with a criminal. we don't know where his money is coming from. honestly, i feel that for his constituents because they don't know who they voted for. and they don't know if this person is actually going to be representing and them, and that is really unfortunate that they have no recourse, except to

wait around for two years. >> yes, and charles, that is why i think this matters, and it is worth not letting this scandal doesn't even seem like the inappropriate word for this -- being in the background. you know, george santos is saying he won't resign because he was elected by the people. but the people affected him under false pretenses. >> right. but -- that is unfortunately, in america, it's not a crime. lying, repeatedly, obsessively, is not a crime. but as danielle points out, the money -- that can be a crime. so, that is the point where we have to really focus at this point. it doesn't make sense which he says, and where the mystery money came from, his campaign, how it was used. that all deserves investigation. that may be his downfall. but as the congressman was pointing out, though, it would

take -- even that would take criminal charges, maybe conviction. there are multiple people in congress right now who are stuck with those investigations. you know, just the fact of being investigated, even that doesn't get you censured, doesn't get you punished. maybe people will be on committees now during this, so, you can still be under investigation and maintain your seat in congress and be in good standing with this republican congress. >> i think this is one of the reasons that the people of this country have issues with the political process and what's happening in congress. i will note, a lot of people keep talking about the ethics committee under speaker mccarthy, the ethics committee has -- a lot of teeth have been pulled out. i want to talk about janet yellen and the debt ceiling, because this is news of last week, but it's news coming into this week. the treasury secretary, she recently announced that the united states would actually hit the debt limit on january

19th. and that even drastic measures from the treasury department will only keep us afloat until june. danielle, on a scale of 1 to 10, how confident are you about the prospects for congress actually doing its job here? i asked congresswoman ilhan omar, she was like, not really. >> i am not confident at all. i have no confidence in the hollow speakership of kevin mccarthy. i have no confidence that republicans will decide to run america over a cliff, just to own the libs. like, this is where we are, you know, and this is what people have to understand, elections matter. that when you are voting for republicans, this is what you are going to get, people who don't know how the function, or don't want to. you know, got to help us. maybe we'll make it to june. maybe we won't. >> i don't think -- it is not an option to make it to june or not, danielle. david jolly, what are your thoughts? because i also asked congressman williams, and he struck a tone of hope, and he said that he thought that

congress will take it to a place where they will do their job, and he thinks that they should, he doesn't think that we should default. and he is a republican. >> yeah, symone, i've worked for congress for about 30 years. my first -- it was in 1995. and i do same with some reticence, but with confidence, it always gets done. but sometimes, it gets very messy, and this extraordinary measures chapter is routine. so, we will move to a time where treasury has to use extraordinary measures. but it does get done. the question is, how badly do the markets get rattled by republicans in this moment? i think it ends with kevin mccarthy with a lot of i have on his face because he cannot honor the promise he made to make to conservatives. you will need the democrats. he will get rolled by schumer and biden, and he'll get looking awful. and i have a bit of news for you today. i talk to house republican about two hours ago who said he thinks there is more than five sane republicans, i won't call the moderates, who are not willing to go along with kevin 's dealing with conservatives -- >> i think congressman williams is one of those individuals. charles, very quickly, a lot to

talk about, shut down the government, but if america defaults -- or it doesn't pay its bills, there's no shutting down the government, we are just a, you know, in financial peril? >> right, and there is an extreme part of that republican party, the extremism, but that part of it does not see the negative in pushing us completely to the brink and trying to rank as much out of the country as possible. so, that's what we have to worry about. >> charles blow, former congressman david jolly, and danielle moodie, thank you all for such a spirited conversation today. now, the rest of y'all, the people, don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (bridget vo) with thyroid eye disease... i hid from the camera. and i wanted to hide from the world. for years, i thought my t.e.d was beyond help... ...but then i asked my doctor about tepezza. (vo) tepezza is the only medicine that treats t.e.d. at the source

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tuesday, joy reid, chris hayes and tremaine lee host national day of racial healing. an msnbc town hall live from new orleans.

they will discuss the recent rise on facebook cross america and how they can make strides towards becoming a more just and equitable society. so make sure you all to an end watch national day of racial healing, as tuesday 10 pm eastern right here on msnbc and also streaming on peacock. you're not folks, oftentimes when we discuss black history, we speak in the past but there are some of the individuals and are present for a literal living black history. so to lead up to black history month and through the end of february, on the show we will celebrate the pioneers in our community through a series we are calling living black history. we had hoped of reverend jesse jackson join us today to kick off that series but unfortunately, he was not able to make it but don't you guys worry, we look for to having him join us again very, very soon. that is off from, a thank you for watching simone on this saturday. i am simone sanders towns and then you can catch me right here on msnbc, begins at 4 pm eastern and anytime over on the msnbc hub on peacock. and for more of the show, you can find us on instagram,

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