i'm katy tur. the day was january 9th, 2023. president biden woke up to continui headlines about a republican party in disarray, for the speaker who could barely get the gavel giving everything up but his shoes to a group of conservative rebels not to mention a freshman lawmakers who looks to be a pathological liar and potentially a criminal one as well. when president biden sat down with aides, they probably noted that while the gop seemed to be spiraling, the president's own prospects never seemed better. the midterms were a win. the stock market was inching its way back up. and inflation was inching its way back down. by late afternoon, he might have even heard positive talk amongst prominent dems about a 2024 run. but come dinnertime, all that good news would seem a mile away, one week later, seven days, that happy talk feels a world away, pushed off not by an

outside force, but by a mistake of his own making, classified documents found not only in his old office, but in his delaware garage and home. and not just one highly classified document but multiple all uncovered not by a forthcoming and transparent white house, but by news reports, the latest from this weekend. you can see it right here. republicans have been pouncing happy to get exactly the kind of story they needed to push their own problems off the front pages, and now democrats are frustrated, too, we've got news on what some of the most well-known democrats about what this mean, not just for president biden but for president trump as well. and what president biden has said to be feeling behind closed doors, also what this means for who runs on the democratic ticket in 2024. joining me now is nbc news correspondent carol lee, and nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali, and political white

house reporter and msnbc political contributor, eugene daniels. so carol, before we get started, let's slay play what republicans are saying about this, followed by what democrats are saying about this. >> we want to know the visitor logs to the residence. we want to know who had access to the biden center for diplomacy. >> this is a prime example of why we passed this week a new select committee that will fall under jim jordan's committee for the weaponization of government. >> if he wasn't in a glass house, don't throw stones and i think president biden was caught throwing stones. >> it is certainly embarrassing. it is embarrassing that you would find a small number of document, certainly not on purpose. >> we've got to review how departing presidents and vice presidents are going about organizing the archives of the documents both classified and unclassified. because this can't go on. >> i would like to know what these documents are, i would like to know what the ic's

assessment was, whether there was any risk of exposure and what the harm is and whether any mitigation needs to be done. >> you know, i mean to separate those two comments, those separate comments about the varying degree of outrage but the words are pretty similar, carol. what is the white house saying, not the republicans, but the frustrated democrats who are probably going to them and saying what were you thinking? >> well, one the things we've seen, katy, in the past couple of days, a little bit of a shift from the white house is, a very, a much more detailed explanation. not just for the time line and what the white house says happened, in terms of discovery, these different batches of documents, but also why the white house made the decision not to be more publicly forthcoming about what was going on. and we heard from the president's personal attorney says that, look, the president advised, told all of us to be fully cooperative with the

investigation and that's what we are continuously hearing from the white house and also saying that they had to balance transparency to the public with respecting the integrity of the justice department's investigation. so that is their explanation. now, we're also learning from our own reporting, myself, monica alba and kristen welker over the weekend, that the president shares some of these frustrations that democrats have. we're told that the president is frustrated with how this is playing out. he's frustrated and annoyed about the aides who may have been sloppy in packing him up when he was leaving the vice presidency, and just generally with how this has been handled. and so for the democrats who are frustrated and saying this is an embarrassment, according to our own reporting, the president agrees with them in some respects. >> okay, carol lee, thank you very much. eugene, the white house, the president is apparently frustrated. do we know that this was just a packing issue from when he left as vice president? was it an aide who put it away and it got transferred? or do we know if maybe the

former vice president requested these documents, or he might have been working on, when he was outside of the vice presidency? i mean i know that past presidents have requested classified document force their own memoirs. any reason to believe that this might not be that? or might be there? >> that is one of the many questions we don't have answers to, that's one of the questions that the special counsel is going to look into, and how do we get to bottom it, over the next weeks and possibly months as they dig into. it and i'll say, you know, this is, all of the questions that we have, and that they have, some of the american people have, too. and that is what the administration is dealing with now, is the political ramifications, we don't know what the legal ramifications of this may be at this point, especially because they weren't forth coming with the government. but then you talk to, as you go around talking to the american people, they have questioned

because the two issues, though they're very different. donald trump and joe biden, they sound similar. and i think that's something that is also frustrating democrats, is that like you said, as you outlined in the intro, they were very excited and this is a thing that makes it much harder for, one, president biden to come out and announce a run for president, for re-election but democrats looked like the party of adults. >> and it is one thing to be transparent to the government and another to be transparent to the american public, and this is a white house that said it was transparent, and this is an example of a not being transparent, multiple news reports have had to uncover even and every step of the revelations about the documents, from where they were, to the multiple locations, and the one classified document, to the multiple highly-classified documents, so there's that issue. and then there is also the issue that if you're looking on this

from the outside and you see president biden a few months ago talk about how, how could president trump mishandle classified documents, it was so irresponsible, when he knew at the time that the same issue, maybe not to the same degree, but the same issue had propped up at his own residence. that, i think, if you're look forecast the outside, it can feel dishonest. >> yes, i mean you talked to aides and they even know using the word transparency was not their best choice, that probably honesty and forthcoming they should have stuck with that, because when you say we've been transparent on the issue, that's obviously not the case, they had the information in november before the midterms and then in december and the week, after the first group of documents, the press secretary was asked whether or not they were other documents and they hem and hawed and instead of saying we're looking at that, and we'll let you guys know.

because you look like, to the american people, and then to us, that you are hiding information, and then come to find out, the drip, drip, drip, drip and it just continues. and i think that is something that, as we're watching, and asking them multiple questions, that's what the administration, that's what voters are seeing and that's what republicans are latching on to, right? they're latching on to the fact that they weren't transparent about this. that they didn't come forward. though the white house defends it. the president's personal attorneys and they had a statement this weekend, saying they were kind of balancing the integrity of the investigation, they knew that was happening, and telling the american people. but that only goes so far explaining something of this magnitude. >> does it do something to 2024 and president biden running again, eugene? >> that's one of the questions democrats are asking, because they were getting kind of excited about it, right? they had the midterms, they looked good, and after weeks and months of folks kind of wondering if there is someone

who needed to replace him on the 2024 ticket, you weren't seeing that anymore, but you're not seeing the calls, not running for president just yet, but it depends how long this lasts, because at some point he is going to have to announce something and if he doesn't run, other people need to get ready, and if he is going to run the american people deserve and need to know that and they usually have presidents announce re-elections in the spring, january, so we have a few months and weeks ago, they were looking at possibly doing an announcement as early as february. >> they have potential cushion and we'll see if more revelations come out whether there are more documents that we haven't been told about yet. ali vitali, the republicans are obviously seizing on this. we played a little bit of that sound at the top of the show. and there was james comer who heads oversight on another network this morning or yesterday who said his biggest concern isn't declassified documents to be honest you with, my concern is how there is such

a discrepancy in ow former president trump was raiding mar-a-lago, his word, by getting the security cameras and pictures of documents on the floor, by going by melania's closet, do they think that this discovery from president biden washes away the sins of trump? >> well, this is the catch that they're in right now. for some, and there are many who think this is a gift to republicans and i think in some ways it is, it allows them to try to muddy the waters and paint biden in the way that trump is being painted on the documents front, despite the fact that trump did not cooperate, that he obstructed the ability to get these documents in the first place, and then of course the shear number of documents that were found at mar-a-lago, all of those are important distinctions here, nevertheless, republicans are going to try to move forward. we always knew that investigations were going to be the hallmark of this majority. they were always going to be looking into the biden administration and into various aspects but this is certainly something that allows them to sink their teeth in. the reason it is a catch,

though, katy, in engaging with this, they have to either show that they don't care about it when trump does it and only care about it when biden does it or they have to argue process, which is what you saw from chairman comer there, you've seen this from other republicans as well, trying to push forward on, as eugene said, the lack of transparency from this administration and trying to charge that biden took documents and that this needs to be deeply investigated when of course they did not show the same fervor when it was former president trump at the center. as much as this does allow a gift and something to sink that teeth into investigatively, it is a moment in order to engage with the biden drama here, they are going to have to engage with what trump did as well. >> ali vitali, thank you very much. and eugene daniels, thank you. let's bring in former fbi general council and former senior member of the mueller report, andrew weissmann, an msnbc legal analyst. i want to get something straight.

we talked a lot about intent behind this. why does intent matter so much when classified documents, period, should not be mishandled and we're told that national security is at risk, when classified documents are mishandled, and we learned that at least one of those, or a few of them were top secret compartmented information? why does intent still matter when you're dealing with that? >> is a great question. so when it comes to national security concerns, intent does matter, if the information is in a place that it should not be, in a place that is not secure. it doesn't matter what the person's intent is. it doesn't matter if it got there by accident or not. because there still could be what we used to call a spill, a spill of classified information, and that questions that adam schiff have come into play, which is who had access, was there anybody who this was disseminated to, intentionally or not. where intent is important is

with respect to the criminal law. there is a big difference between an accident or even negligence and something that is done intentionally. if you knock over a glass of milk, that's an accident. if you take it in your hand and throw it at somebody, that is intentional. and that's where i think correctly, so far, to date, people are saying, there's a large difference between the facts as we know them with respect with donald trump and the facts as we know them with respect to joseph biden, because it appears one is quite intentionally, with an overlay of obstruction of justice, and with respect to president biden, so far, although there was a communications disaster on their hands, with respect to the criminal law, we so far do not have any evidence of intentionality. >> there are two special counsels working concurrently right now, one investigating the president, and the documents and what happened leading up to it and what happened after, and the intent, and also one that is

investigating president trump and as we know now, we have two sets of information, and one seems on the outside more egregious than the other. i wonder, though, because, i know we talk about how politics never enters the mind of prosecutors and they're just following the letter of the law, but i think we also understand that politics is very deeply at play when it comes to how donald trump is treated or says he is treated compared to joe biden and the electorate. i wonder is there any legal reason for these two special counsels to confer with each other, or is there a political reason for these two special counsels to confer with each other, on what they found, and what they end up charging? or recommending? >> i think the answer to that is no, because remember, that at the end of the day, the special counsels are both within the department of justice. so they all lead up to merrick garland. so while each case will be examined on their own facts and

law, and that's what you do with the department, facts matter, and the law matters and if the case is different, it is okay to treat cases differently but merrick garland will be in a position to look at the two and see whether the differences are significant and material and to compare them to each other and also all of the other cases that the department has looked at. so i don't know that the special counsels need to confer, because merrick garland at the end of the day will see both cases. and as i said, if the difference is one is intentional and one is not, and one had obstruction of justice and one did not, then under d.o.j. precedent, there is every reason, every reason to think that there will be a recommendation of no prosecution with respect to president biden, because that would really be consistent with what has happened in the past, and there could well be a recommendation with respect to former president trump that he be prosecuted. katy, i do want to comment on

one thing you that mentioned at the outset about the white house having this potential defense that the reason they didn't say anything is they didn't want to interfere with the d.o.j. investigation, and the one thing i would say that is somebody who has been at d.o.j. for over 20 years, to put it bluntly, i don't buy that. i think it highly unlikely that the department of justice would have told the white house to not say anything, or that they even prefer them not to say anything. it's something that the department would be loathe to do, because it's not within their discretion to do that. and in fact, we've seen the white house make statements just in the last few days, so i don't find that to be a very plausible explanation. then again, if that is what d.o.j. did, then it could be, i just don't think that it would be very consistent with the way d.o.j. typically respond missituations like this. >> i wonder now that we've

discovered that president biden mistakenly, as we, as they're saying right now, moved classified documents to his residents, or aides mistakenly did that, i wonder if we went to the residences of other past presidents, president clinton, president obama, or other past vice presidents or high level officials, whether we would find more classified documents there, and if so, is that an example of just sloppiness, or is it an example of a system that overclassifies? >> i don't think it is an example of a system that overclassifies. there is no question that there is a problem of overclassification, because things just, the least of it is that things that were classified properly at the outset can become something that should no longer be declassified, and that process can be flawed and delayed. but i do think it could be an

example of just sloppiness, which is that people don't take classification as seriously and in a way that is handled. my experience when i was at the fbi is that different agencies tend to be more or less vigilant, depending on where they were within the hierarchy. so the fbi, the cia, and nsa, the dni, to my, in my experience, were all extremely careful. that's not to say that there wasn't an occasional mistake. but people really took it seriously. and there was a whole protocol for how to handle particularly sensitive information. but when you got to other agencies that didn't typically deal with classified information, it could be more lax. and that's where you could see a problem arising. >> i'm getting the wrap in my ear but i have one other question for you. republicans will argue the reason that donald trump was obstructive is because the federal government kept going after them and they'll make that argument to the american public. how would you counter that

argument as a prosecutor? >> if you take government documents, whether they're classified or not, those are, that's something that no federal employee can do, and no former federal employee can do, and that is, you're more responsible if you're at the very top of that food chain than if you're a lesser federal employee, and the thing that i would do, if i were merrick garland, is i would turn to the d.o.j. precedent of cases that have been prosecuted, and i would point to all of the low level people who have been prosecuted for doing things that were similar or far less egregious, and say, it is really important that the country is to be a rule of law, that somebody who is at the top of the food chain be held to account. >> andrew weissmann, thank you very much. as always, for coming on, and helping us understand what is going on. appreciate it. >> thank you.

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here is something that you're going to be hearing about a lot over the next few weeks. the debt limit. republicans won't raise it. not without some major spending cuts. arguing we already shoulder too much debt, and now the most conservative mefbts gop hold a ton of leverage over speaker kevin mccarthy, they might actually get the joedown that they've always wanted. citing those aware of the

internal republicans, "the post" reports house republicans are preparing a plan to tell the treasury department what to do if congress and the white house don't agree to lift the nation's debt limit later this year. so, what does that mean for all of us? joining me now is former republican congressman and current msnbc political analyst carlos curbelo and full disclosure coast, robin farza. robin, what does it mean if we can't raise the debt ceiling? >> i think we've got anesthetized to this, a game of chicken slash cry wolf and a credit rating downgraded by standard and poor's in 2011 and i think the market fell 6 or 7% of that day and we had that kubuki theater several times and at a certain point you kind of yawn and i think the congressman will agree that is dangerous, as janet wellen will tell you, because you have some people out there, as you saw with the embarrassment, the embarrassing, the embarrassing of kevin

mccarthy and 15 rounds, they're willing to go their own way and willing to play to social media and their base and the kind of markets and the bond stability be damned. that's the concern every time we kind of say oh, yawn, here it goes again, we're probably going to come to some 11 1/2 hour agreement with the mitch mcconnell and the white house, and the very republican right wing part of the house is involved this time. >> and which means it could happen. so you talk about the stock market dipping, what are the real world effects, what other real world effects would there be? >> people out of work. we've gone through this exercise before. if you're not able to make payments, if contractors have to be let go, you talk about the general services administration, and janitors and all of the second order effects of people who are out of work, social security checks might be delayed. you start feeling a real shock to the economy. even if it is just theater for the time being. this is theater that exacts realtime, real world aim. and how often do you have to

cross that? with lehman brothers, we have to feel what it is like, a free fall of a wall street firm in the system to chance and we don't want to experience that again, the alternative of a bailout, as nefarious as it sounds is better than kind of a freefall. >> let me put up the moody's analytics report of what would happened, a september 2021 report that estimated that a default could have a similar effect as the great recession, and a 4% gross domestic product gdp decline, nearly 6 million jobs lost, and an unemployment rate of 9%. it doesn't sound great, especially as inflation is still, very, very high. so what is the republican argument here though, carlos, about refusing to raise the debt limit again? >> well, katy, what republicans will argue is that year after year, we have this discussion, and year after year, congress does not actually make any tough decisions to reduce spending. and look, that's a very broad and popular viewpoint in the house republican conference.

at the same time, there is a significant number of republicans, katy, that don't want to provoke a national economic crisis and that understand that it is the politicians who are perceived to be provoking the crisis that typically get punished in the polls and in elections. so i think it's important, this time around, to watch that group of centrist republicans who have now learned that just with four or five votes, they can paralyze the house, and see what they do to prevent, from putting the country in such a difficult position, and to avoid themselves being in a perilous political position. >> so they might make a deal, according to the post, that says we're going to protect social security and medicare and veterans benefits and the military, et cetera, but that at the same time, it would still leave out medicaid, it would leave out food safety inspections. and i don't know anybody who doesn't want their food inspected to make sure they're

not getting poisoned. border control, a big priority for republicans and air traffic control, whee that close call a couple of days ago at jfk, i think that is one of the things that you wouldn't want to see being left unshored up. you want air traffic control to function, so that we can fly safely. so i mean i understand not wanting to raise the debt, and feeling like you need to make some cuts, but i guess at what cost, carlos? are they worried about the politics of this, and what it could mean, at the end of the year, what it could mean for 2024? >> that's right, it makes a whole lot more sense to me, instead of focusing on what they should be telling treasury to do, in case the united states does default on its debt, in case congress cannot reach an agreement, i think that more energy should be spent on working with other members, democrats, and republicans alike, to find some kind of compromise, which by the way is exactly what john boehner did the last time we had one of

these episodes some years back, and he actually cut a pretty good deal with president obama that house republicans, a majority of them, refused to go along with, boehner didn't have the vote, but the deal he had cut with president obama would have significantly reduced government spending. so there's also a history in the house republican conference of members holding out for less, or holding out for nothing, and that's another dynamic to keep a close eye on. but the energy should be spent on trying to find an agreement, not on what to do if we can't find an agreement. >> why don't we try to balance the budget? i mean in the '90s, we balanced the budget. we had a surplus, how do we balance the budget in 2023? >> it's just another yawner. if you want to go out there and tell people that the national debt right now is 120% of gdp compared with say 109% in 2019, where does that even rank in the grand scheme of things, with inflation, terrorism, electoral reform, these are not even on the top 10 list. it is something like the killjoy

at the table all this brings up. and that's the problem, that you need it to get to a crisis level, a fiscal crisis, a monetary crisis, social security, covid, things that we saw that actually hit that trip wire for people to pay attention and then the blue ribbon panels and the like, and this, up to now, has been a manufactured crisis. and you know, a bunch of us were asked, what is going to happen if the united states credit rating is downgraded, it turned out not much happened so i think that unfortunately has numbed people to this theater. >> gentlemen, thank you very much. and coming up, the world economic forum kicks off today in davos, officials from the world's two economic power houses are there. what jan et yellen will tell her chinese counterpart and what it could change in the global economy. and search and recovery efforts are still under way after dozens of ukrainians were killed by a russian missile strike in dnipro.

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of an apartment building struck by a russian missile over the week. the aerial attack in the central city of dnipro killed at least 40 people including three children according to ukrainian officials. more than two dozen are still missing. nbc's matt bradley is following the story from kyiv. >> reporter: well, it's our understanding that no people, no living people have been removed from the wreckage by rescue workers for much of the last day. the last day we heard about that is yesterday, on sunday, but it sounds as though from what we're hearing from rescue workers that they are really giving up hope of finding anyone alive in the horrific wreckage that we're seeing on the screen right now. the fact is there was a real scramble, it was amazing that they were able to pull some people out alive when you look at what happened there. now, this is apparently one of the deadliest strikes on civilians ever since this war began, nearly 11 months ago. and it really just goes to show that russia has not ceased targeting civilians and civilian

infrastructure, particularly electricity systems, and that's why we've seen rolling blackouts, particularly here in kyiv, which is taking the brunt of a lot of the attacks. now, you know, the russians, we heard from the kremlin, they said that they didn't launch this strike, that they never strike civilian residential buildings, and things like that, they implied that this might have actually been the debris falling from a missile that was intercepted by ukrainian anti-missile systems most of which are provided by the west. now that's possible. but i've been around kyiv and seen a lot of these debris that have fallen, and when missiles are intercepted and they're really quite small. they don't do the kind of damage that we saw in that apartment building in dnipro, that just doesn't seem likely and the ukrainians have shot back and said this is a war crime, and they know the perpetrators who did this. back to you. >> matt bradley, thank you very much. and the mayor of kyiv traveled to davos, switzerland and today made his case for more

support at the world economic forum. nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons is in switzerland, davos changed the dates due to the pandemic, that was the beginning of this war, and what were the world leaders talking about today that is different from eight months ago. >> well, i think the aim of the ukrainian delegation that is here in davos trying to if you like lobby world leaders and business leaders is to keep up the pressure and say don't stop, there are many, many european leaders here, and that message from the mayor of kyiv was designed i think to really force home the point that there is still bloodshed in ukraine. take a listen. >> we need to defend our civilians from russians. did you see what happened in dnipro?

it's terrorism. it's genocide. to kill unguilty people, children, women, all people. >> for many of the world leaders here, they are gathering and recognizing how profoundly the world is changing. one example. it is no longer possible to fly from here to the european union or the u.k. directly to russia, and it is impossible to know when that might change. think about this. during the soviet union, you could fly directly. globalization doesn't appear to be globalizing any more. it is in reverse, many leader here think, and that worries them. >> what about janet yellen, she is going to be there meeting with her chinese counterparts, two of the world's biggest economies, some might say economies that are often at odds with each other, what can we expect from that conversation? >> reporter: well, again, i

think my point about globalization, i think janet yellen will be doing will be delivering a tough message, while at the same time trying to ensure that there is communication with china, with the deputy premiere of china. by the way, after she has had that meeting, and i think she will be clear to say to beijing that you need to put pressure on moscow, she then goes to africa, where of course, china has been diplomatically and economically kind of spreading its wings if you like and that is by way of washington now to impose america's view on that continent, and so it will be a suspected tough meeting but a meeting that is crucial, given the importance of america and china in the world, and this very difficult world. >> keir simmons, thank you very much. and one of the oldest african american neighborhoods in america, what they will do to rebuild itself, thanks to the new bipartisan infrastructure

plan. and after a brutal week, california faces yet another round of rainfall. but the end is near. bill karins is here to tell us when the state might finally see some relief. before we begin, i'd like to thank our sponsor, liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. and by switching, you could even save $652. thank you, liberty mutual. now, contestants ready? go! why? why? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

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it's getting a discount on your trip, plus points for your future travels. so you can keep thinking, “where next?” another storm system is hitting california blanketing the already saturated state with more rain and more snow. it is the tenth major storm system to hit california since christmas. and officials expect the recovery efforts will be long, costly and expansive, once the onslaught finally stops. joining me now is nbc news meteorologist bill karins. we've seen these atmospheric rivers, bill, are they coming to an end? >> they are. one of the last ones in this series, it was early this morning, and then back to regular california winter weather with occasional storm but not the series of storms and we can really blame the jet stream, which controls the weather around the planet, it is

very active across the pacific and that's what drove all of these storms into california some of the we're down to 7 million people under flood watches. it's still got a couple of flood warnings. that's the little maroon boxes here, i have not seen anything too horrendous as far as the mud slides and the landslides go, there was a lady who was rescued out in san diego, from a swollen creek, with her vehicle in it, and unfortunately at golden gate park, there was a fatality with a tree branch landing on a woman in the park. as far as impacts statewide they are more isolated compared to the last couple of storms. the atmospheric river, you can see parts of arizona got some rain out of this. and what is left in california is mostly heavy, really heavy snow in the mountains. and by the time we get to next week or the end of next week, we can talk about the benefits of all of these storms and how the reservoirs have been filling up, so there has been some good along to go with a lot of the bad and the destruction. the time line, 8:00 p.m. this

evening, the storm will be headed into the four corner region. snow in areas of northern arizona, utah, and new mexico. great for all of the ski areas. colorado, late tonight into tuesday. then the storm actually explodes in the middle of the country. denver, just and you winter storm warning and six to ten inches for the denver area mostly overnight tuesday, waking up wednesday morning, and denver, the worst commute for you. and due like to see this along the cold front. bright red, the thunderstorms. and a chance for isolated severe weather again and the same areas that were hit by severe weather numerous times this winter season. east texas, louisiana, arkansas, eventually into mississippi, isolated tornadoes and wind damage is a problem, and there is that winter storm warning for denver, and now extended into central nebraska, and eventually, this will go right through areas of iowa, and into wisconsin, and it is pretty decent snowstorm. we haven't had a ton of snowstorms this winter, it has been so warm in so many areas. here is the snow forecast. obviously all of the mountains will get it. from denver, when you get to the

purple, six inches, to north platte, and omaha, digging out in the middle of the week and that will make the school kids cheer. here it is. we did mention we have one more storm after this one in california, so here we are today, there is that strong storm coming onshore, and we have a little bit of a break on wednesday, and then here comes the final storm, katy, in the series, by the time we get to friday, we dry it out, the sunshine returns, and that is it, it looks like we're going to shut the faucet off for a while on the west coast. >> great news for the west coast, as long as they are able to use this to get out of the drought, and not -- >> it has helped. it hasn't eliminated it but a lot of the reservoirs, some reservoirs 120 feet. so there is some good. >> some good. bill karins, thank you very much. and up next, what demolition crews are ready to take down in an historic black neighborhood in new orleans. ric black neighbd in new orleans there's always a fresh deal on the subway app. like this one! 50% off?! that deal's so good we don't even need an

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tomorrow marks the 7th annual national day of racial healing, to rectify harms done to historically black communities. this is treme, just north of new orleans french quarter. it is one of the oldest african

american neighborhoods in the country. the birth place of jazz, thriving with black food, culture and businesses. in the 1960s, it was targeted by a highway project, which tore it in half, you can see the highway right there, and then in 2005, hurricane katrina destroyed much of what was left. now, thanks to the $1 trillion infrastructure package, louisiana has the money to reconnect that community and build it back. officials say they have a plan. joining me now from new orleans is msnbc's trymaine lee. so trymaine in treme, tell me what's going to happen, how are they going to build it back? >> first of all, katy, long before people locally called this the monster, the lush green center of the black community, it was lined with big oak trees. if you look mind me, the oak trees are literally painted on

the the beams here and children at play, and you can hear the roar and the snarl of the monster, with traffic, and so folks were a long time dealing with, this and as you mentioned, $1 trillion infrastructure plan, set aside money for communities like this, to kinds of reconnect, and now while there is a plan for the city, i'm sorry a plan tore the state to tear down some off-ramps and portions of the bridge, and the community want some say-so in what to do and some folks quite frankly don't want the bridge taken down, or the interstate taken down, either way, for many years, this has been a symbol of what many call infrastructure racism and a blight on the community. let's take a listen to what some folks had to say. >> with respect to the psyche and the behavior of those of us that have got to engage with it, day and day out, whether you walk in it, or whether you are driving by, it affects your psyche. you know what i mean? and for someone like me, who is

born and raised here, and saw the glaring difference, it is painful. let's see how much we can get done that makes this community feel like they have been cared about, and some attempt to do some racial healing. >> reporter: now, the community has been coming together to try to debate and figure out some solution, but he is 69 years old and for more than 50 years, dealing with that psychological weight that he mentioned. >> i mean just the sound of trying to hear you over the sound of that highway is painful. i mean it's a lot to rip a community in half like this, and it's been done to a lot of communities around the country, and people will say that's an example of why our communities have fallen apart, they have broken because you have literally torn them in half.

how do you fix it though if you're not going to tear down the highway? >> that is the billion dollar question right there, how do you fix it? also, how do you repair what's been broken for so long. how do you restore the economic value of a community. more than 400 homes were torn down to make room for this, so while folks are debating what to do about this, there is an actual real concern, say you do tear the monster down and bring the well-deserved community back to the community, then that gentrification will only be hastened and in a community where gent fiers are sinking their teeth in already and tear it down and bring healing and value, and then the community loses once again. >> i can see that, also. thank you very much for bringing us the story. you can watch msnbc's town hall, national day of racial healing, tuesday at 10:00 p.m. eastern, right here on msnbc, and streams also on peacock. tune in for that. that is going to do it for me today on this monday. hall jiy jackson picks up our conversation next. ks up our

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we're coming on the air with several developing stories. new drama over documents and the weather wallop and the buckeye state. president biden will mark the mlk holiday staying mum on the classified documents although his white house is not. on the new revelations that have come to