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rush to close up shop for the holidays, we are practically in inundated fleeces a material. there was the committee's final report, the clocked in at over 800 pages, then there were just thousands of pages of deposition transcripts and court documents and exhibits from the committee's hearings, and dozens of videos. it's hard to believe that there was anything the committee did not release. and yet today we learned there was something. today the washington post published this draft memo, prepared by a team of committee staffers focused on social media and extremism. they were known as team purple. the team apparently hoped that there 100 plus-page memo would be adapted into a chapter in the investigation's final report. but the committee decided to leave most of it on the cutting room floor. among team purples most damning findings was in the run up to january six. social media platforms like twitter and facebook bent over

backwards, they bench their own rules to allow donald trump and others, people who were stop the steal proponents, to continue spreading election disinformation, because the tech giants feared blow back from conservatives. executives failed to heed warnings from their own employees about the ways that election denialism was morphing into violent rhetoric, which was likely to explode into real life violence on january 6th. rolling stone reports there is senior safety specialist at twitter who tried and failed in the run up to january 6th, go to bosses to clamp down on to incite violence that she wrote this to her colleague the day before the attack on the capital. when people are should to there in the streets tomorrow, i'm going to try and rest in the knowledge that we tried. because well the january 6th attack may have seemed to most of americans to have come out of nowhere, the people at tech companies whose job it was to be on the lookout for threats, they saw it coming a mile away. they watched as election

disinformation from donald trump and his allies became widespread election denialism among his supporters, which turned to extreme rhetoric about things like taking our country back, which turned to coded and not-so-coded calls for violence. and then we got january 6th. but the team purple investigators for the january 6th committee made clear the capitol was not the end of the cycle. this is from their draft memo. quote, recent events demonstrate that nothing about america's stormy political climate or the role of social media within it has fundamentally changed since january 6th. following the lawful fbi search of president trump's residence in mar-a-lago, both mainstream platforms and the sites were extremists plotted to assault the capitol were again a boil with violent speech. days later, and our man threaten the fbi building in cincinnati ohio, reportings confirming that he was president at the capitol riot.

until the incentives for violent, extreme, and apocalyptic rhetoric iran is managed, the threat of political violence will persist. sure enough, now we appear to be seeing it again. this time, in new mexico. back in august the santa fe new mexico and the notable history of a candidate for state house seat in albuquerque. the republican nominee for the seat, solomon pangea, had been convicted of 19 felonies and spent almost seven years in prison for being a mastermind of smash-and-grab burglary. naturally, after getting out of prison, solomon pena figured that the best thing for him to do was to run for office as a super maga pro trump candidate. after losing badly, only getting 26% of the vote, he announced just like donald trump, he was not conceding his race. he was researching his options. what he came up with, apparently, was a series of visits to the homes of democratic elected officials in

new mexico, where he disputed his election loss with them. one democratic county commissioner tells nbc news that pena came to her house right after the november election, quote, he was at my door, and he was aggressive. he was an election denier. another county commissioner had a similar experience with pena. quote, this guy came to my home. i was concerned about it was very unsettling. he was angry about losing the election. he felt the election was unfair and untrue. both of those commissioners call the police, but they did not give the visits much more thought. that is, until the shooting started. solomon pena has now been arrested on charges he orchestrated a spree of shootings targeting the homes of those two county commissioners, a state senator, and the new state house speaker. all democrats. no one was hurt in the shootings, but that was apparently not for lack of trying. in the criminal complaint against pena, police provided the complaint of a confidential

witness who participated in some of the shootings and is cooperating with authorities. this witness told the police that pena didn't like that the many shyer to shoot higher to shoot the democratic calms was firing a night or naming above the windows. pena wanted them to him lower. and commit the shootings earlier in the evening, to have a better chance of hitting people inside. pena personally participated in the fourth and final shooting, to ensure that it was carried out that way. it was during that shooting the county commissioners sleeping ten year old daughter was covered in sheet rock dust dislodged by bullets passing through her bedroom. today the new mexico legislature opened its new session with a new house speaker whose home was riddled with bullets last month. this may be the first time election denialism has escalated to violence in the state of new mexico. but like so many other places, all over the united states,

election denialism has caused plenty of other problems in the state over the last couple of years. republican commissioners in one new mexico county spent weeks refusing to certify the results of an election last year over fake election fraud claims. new mexico secretary of state finally went to court and force them to certify. the secretary of state herself had to go into hiding for several weeks of previous year because of online threats. and as new mexico's top elections official, she has a pivotal role as her estate heads towards 2024. and that's all because election denialism and it's violent repercussions do not seem to be going anywhere. joining us now is new mexico secretary of state maggie toulouse oliver. madam secretary, thank you for being with us tonight. i just want to get your first reaction to the solomon pena news.

just to understand what it has been like for democratic lawmakers in the state of new mexico and how you are feeling right now, tonight. we >> well, thank you, alex, for having me. i'm really grateful to be here to talk about this topic. i will tell you tonight i am feeling, and i know my colleagues especially my colleagues who experience actual bullets through their houses are feeling extremely relieved at the quick and decisive action of our local law enforcement officials, albuquerque police department, state police here in new mexico. but for me, as somebody who has been on the frontlines of dealing with threats and now we are seeing actual acts of violence against elected officials here in the state, particularly as a result of election denialism and the lies and the disinformation and myths that have provided a certain sector of our population over the last couple of years, i am deeply concerned

because you can see right now from the rhetoric that was leading up to the 2020 election all the way through december, late in the year of 2022, and we are not just talking about violence. we're seeing it actually happen. >> i think a lot of people think because there wasn't a january 6th style insurrection following the midterm elections that somehow we've gotten to a better place. but i wonder what the view on that is from the state level. can you talk a bit about how you see the threat to democracy as it plays out in the state of new mexico? >> sure. i will tell you, my colleagues and i in the election world, and really this is not just democrats. it is people of both parties, independents, who work in elections for a living. we were all saying, you know, wow, this election, it has been a lot calmer, a lot less chaotic, a lot less stressful and threatening than the 2020

election was. but we all sort of are waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak. we know that the pervasive sentiments that have been created by the rhetoric of the big lie have not gone away, and we know that there are still a lot of people out there who genuinely believe that the election was stolen and to also believe that the only way to deal with political conflict is to address it through violence. this just reiterate what i have said in what my colleagues have said over and over again since 2020. the rhetoric has got to stop, because it is not just a political tactic anymore. it is creating actual violence in our communities. it is affecting human beings like me in my family, my colleagues, my friends and their families in their daily lives. it's threatening their safety. >> what do you do, short of making the case that this isn't the answer? where human beings? don't put my ten-year-old daughter's life in danger

because you think the election was rigged. we began the segment talking about the findings of the team purple in the january six committee committee. they detail with great specific divvy the great radicalizing force of social media. how do you compound that is a state elections official? what recourses do you have? >> well, first and foremost, we have to push back on the lies. as you, know we have been doing that. we have been doing very strongly and forcefully over the last couple of years. but the next step is to take legislative action to ensure accountability and make sure justice is being served for those who were not only just contemplating but obviously for those who are carrying out these actions in real life the. work of jerry six committee, i think, was a great example of that. the prosecutions and the successful convictions that we have seen in federal court, particularly when individual in

my statement as public office holder who was removed from office for having participated in the insurrection. it can't just happens a national level at the state level when we see this type of violent behavior as we see here in my state i'm. grateful to our local law enforcement but the next step is to hold these individuals accountable and to prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law and working with the legislature in my state and across the country and other states we need to take proactive action legislatively to make very clear that it is a very serious crime to just even threaten the lives and well-being's of elected officials across the country. >> the other thing i worry about is beyond the urgent safety issues, it must have a chilling effect in terms of who volunteers to want to be part of this system, to be elections official, to be a secretary of state. how do you grapple with this? why do you still do a job that

has forced to into hiding? obviously it's very important for the function of democracy, but you are a person as well. i am sure you have to worry about the safety, your own safety and out of your loved ones. how do you make that choice? >> it's such a good question, alex. iran for a second full term office here in new mexico last year, fully now weighing the potential threats i was going to subject myself to, and i had to think about a very hard. i had to think about, this isn't a job that i do for my own mental health and well-being. i do acknowledge that there are potentially very serious threats to my life into my family's life. but that is the reliant he reality of justice and the right to vote in democracy in this country. i'm not part of a cohort this facing this for the first time. so many people in our nation's history have had to face threats to their lives, and quite frankly have lost their lives for the fight for democracy in this country.

so i'm not any different. i am just willing to do the work, and i'm willing to fight in his speak out into a do everything i can to protect myself in light of the threats. that is exactly what we need. again, on both sides of the aisle and independents and everybody who we need to come together to run our nations democracy, to make sure that it's has that willingness to say yes, we acknowledge there is risk, but so many people have come before us to do the same. >> wow. we are also deeply grateful for everything you're doing to keep the democracy of the native states on track. i'm sorry that you have to make the decisions and the calculations that you do. new mexico secretary of state, maggie toulouse oliver, thank you so much for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> so that was part one of a bigger conversation about the state of mega republicanism today and its relationship to an action election denialism outside the halls of power. part two is about election

deniers and grifters in congress. just as conspiracy mongers-ing marjorie taylor greene lands on the homeland security committee. but what committees did serial fabricator george santos get? later, new reporting on what the justice department decided against having fbi agents monitor president biden is the look collected documents at his delaware home. how does a factor into the calculations of merrick garland? i will be joined onset by former justice department prosecutor who destroyed a lengthy profile of the attorney general. all of that is just ahead. l of that is just ahead.

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startling new details but really elected congressman and serial liar george santos. we don't have the entire hour for the segment but you will remember that santos lied about where he went to high school and college, of being a star volleyball player, about being jewish, about his work history and then of course there are his really questionable financials. santos lent his campaign a whopping $700,000 and questions

are swirling around the potential serious campaign finance violations. as far as all that is concerned, the latest revelation comes from the washington post. which reports quote new details linked short santos to cousin of sanctioned russian oligarch. but as a real headline. the post reports that the russian businessman reportedly put quote, hundreds of thousands of dollars into desantis's one-time employer, harbor city, which was accused by regulators of running a ponzi scheme. and yet today, george santos, who by the way voted 15 times to elect kevin mccarthy as house speaker, today george santos was rewarded with a seat on both the small business committee and the science, space, and technology committee. kevin mccarthy who is purely we could have a a speaker made multiple concessions to get the speakers got fouled. and many we still do not know about. today, in dueling out when he

assignments, three congressman who really literally led the charges against him mccarthy, matt gaetz, andy bates and chip roy, it will gain seats in the very powerful judiciary committee out. congressman scott perry, -- where did three of the most extreme republican -- two of those people were previously kicked off committees in the last congress. extremist and compare see theorist marjorie taylor greene who has liked social media posts calling for the execution of democratic leaders and who was, if you remember, stripped of her committee assignments to her dangerous rhetoric. today, marjorie taylor greene got not one but two seats on two the most powerful committees in congress low blood to crude committee in the oversight committee. and republican congressman paul

gosar, conspiracy theorists who switched his vote at the 11th hour to kevin mccarthy, one who posted an anime video online showing him killing the congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, the one that got him stripped of his committee assignments back in the day? paul gosar also coveted see on the powerful oversight committee. and then there is far-right republican and qanon supporter, congressman lauren boebert, who's pivotal, last-minute phones which allowed commit mccarthy to secure the speakers gavel, who refered to democratic represents to de ville and omar as a member of a quote, jihad squad. lauren boebert, also got to see on the oversight committee with which the gop is planning to go after the biden administration with numerous political needed administrations. kevin mccarthy made a number of concessions to become speaker, we do not know all of them. what seems clear is that hard-liners in his party have been appeased. and that can be catastrophic for both americans and democracy. joining us now is nbc's senior

political reporter, sahel kapoor. sahel, good to see you. thanks for being here. a lot of choices remain on capitol hill today. what is the reaction of republicans who are not in the most extreme wing of the republican party? to this election of lauren boebert, marjorie taylor greene, paul gosar, scott perry for these plum committee assignments? >> there certainly were a lot of choices made in a lot of very important choices made alex. of the 20 holdouts food out cuba mccarthy 14 humiliating defeats of the house of representatives before ultimately electing him speaker, all of them have gotten committee assignments that would range from good to great. there are several of them that are freshman, forced her members who have gotten committee assignments on the homeland security committee, financial services committee and the appropriations committee. i texted that one aide house

republican -- and the reaction i got back was a screaming face emoji. throughout this process of getting democrats elected speaker, there was a lot of anger from more moderate and mainstream republicans about the fact that 10% of the most right-wing republicans were, in their view, holding the other 90% hostage. and there was also this insistence that were there were no explicit committees promised to these members, there was never like, i need you to put me on this exact committee or i'm not gonna vote for you. but we do know, because the members were in the room negotiating this, told me and other reporters that one of the things they demanded if kevin mccarthy was what they called, a conservative representation on committees, what they meant was that was, membership of the far-right freedom caucus on these plum committee assignments. it appears they got that, alex. >> i mean, riddle me this, sahel. kevin mccarthy agreed to a

one-vote threshold -- far-right seems to be winning this hand. but does not a certain political capital lie with the non maga issuing of the party? do this enough with enough conspiracy theorists, fearmongering, anti-vax republicans, and the more and, we'll put it in quotes, mainstream wing of the party could revolt. is there any talk of mccarthy practically losing support this early in the game? >> not at this moment, alex. this is going to be one of the most important gut check questions of the moderate republican party. are they willing to respond in kind and say, speaker mccarthy, if you give these people too much what they want, if you side with 10% of the most far-right members than you are going to have a problem on the moderate mainstream wing. we have seen over the last decade or so, the last 12 years -- caucus, that conservative members, the most conservative members, they flex power. you're willing to tolerate a high-level of chaos before the chamber to get what they want. the moderate members don't have the same willingness to, flex their muscle to use the parliamentary equivalent of brute force that we are seeing from these ultraconservatives. that is going to be a big problem when it comes to

governing, i think. when it comes to funding the government, like comes to lifting the debt ceiling. an optional pieces of legislation, because a lot of what these members have got to do on these committees is you know, right legislation that never passed the senate, can ever get signed into law by president biden, things that occur since the oversight functions which are also very important. but there are some important matters of governing, you know, which have a very very serious consequences. >> okay. okay, moderate wing. use your power wisely, i guess. nbc's senior political reporter sahel kapoor, always great to see you sahel, thanks for your time. joining us now is mark leap of, -- mark an author of thank you for your of two, donald trump's

washington and the price of submission. mark, great to see you. perhaps you as a wise man washington, can tell me, sahel just said the moderate wing of the gop is not content or perhaps bold enough to use the power that they have to keep the hard lined conservative you know, extremists, in line. my question to you is, as someone who studied the sort of, republican class of politicians in washington, why is that? kevin mccarthy holds the speakers gavel by one vote. why? one naysayer could outs to misspeak or, might not use your power? >> right. or, they've a majority of what, four votes. any number, this is a fairly high number of mainstream moderate were -- republicans who ran and won and in districts that biden ran and won in 2020. they are clearly vulnerable to get some kind of reelection battle. they are not banding together. i was a little bit surprise after basically mccarthy, it looked like he was rewarding all kinds of bad behavior, preemptive bad behavior, during just the chaos of a week and a half and ago. which turns out he was because all people who were sort of

holding his, holding him over the neck of the capitol, were awarded big committee assignments this week. and ultimately, these moderates, or whatever you want to call them, none of them voted against the rules package a few days later. they have not in any way shape or form shown any willingness to defy the right, which they seem frankly scared of. to me that is the dynamic that will be defining to what the republicans look like -- >> and yet, the republican party elders have been commissioning very muddy forces of autopsy to figure out what went wrong in 2022. doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the lesson from these midterms, where republicans lost a seat in the senate, and have a house majority by four votes. did the lesson there, is to put paul gosar and lauren boebert on plum, powerful committee assignments? it defies all logic. are we witnessing, i think i have been saying this for ten years, but it really feels like it now, is this the implosion of the gop as a functioning party?

how can you look at what just happened and make the decision that was made today, hours ago? >> yeah. what you are seeing is people acting out of self interest. if you are in a safe district, if you are in an echo chamber that is fox news, small donors, it is your deep -- in district that marjorie taylor greene and paul gosar represents, also the far-right members of your caucus, that kevin mccarthy desperately needs, these are the people you are focused on. the idea of what an autopsy committee is going to decide, what the republican party needs to win swing voters, they don't give a damn about that. that is not something that they think about in the day today. it is very short term, narrow and self perpetuating. i >> wonder if there's also a more cynical thing up play, there is a belief that what happens in washington state in washington. i wonder if you think this is

true, that you can launch any number of flawed, fraudulent investigations into various democratic members of the administration, you can impeach however many cabinet secretaries who want, and launch you know, subcommittees on covid being imported from mars or whatever, and then you are not going to pay our price for that in a presidential election here. do you think they believe that they can get away with absolute she cannery, nonsense and disinformation inside the halls of congress and not actually pay the price actually, nationally when it comes to an election here? >> clearly. one, they are most of them for the most part getting reelected. mccarthy is getting his speakership. in a way, the decisions they have made, if you put it all together, it is an example of the gop, certainly the house deciding to lead with the wound

shows. every single person who has been on the fringes of the last couple years have been rewarded, in power. we are going to see so much more of paul gosar, marjorie taylor greene, -- again, they are dealing with self perpetuation in very narrow, focus desks tricks that involves their own political interests and foxes political interests. in national elections and autopsies and things like that, are not the kinds of things they think about, nor are they thinking about what is good for the country. >> do you think we are going to default on our credit? when it comes to the deep debt ceiling. how nihilistic do you think the republican party is willing to be in the stage at the game? >> we are going to find out. i hate to be honest about it, but look. i think, obviously democrats were thrilled, pretty much of the election, the midterm election results. they knew especially if they kept the senate, which they did, we amount of damage that the house could do was somewhat contained by the fact that,

there is a very small margin ultimately, the white house in the senate were -- but the debt ceiling is the big kind of clamoring exception to all this. this is a massive, massive threat. they decide they don't want to play ball in this, they're just going to sort of obstruct this, it could be catastrophic consequences. and frankly i don't think marjorie taylor greene is thinking about it in terms of what her district -- i think the reward structure there is very very different from what sane consumers and -- politics will think but on the day today. not to me is -- >> i don't think is acquainted and that the grifter like george santos went from basically ponzi scheme to running for office in the republican party. putin and winning. mark cleavage, staff writer for the atlantic, front of this program, thank you for your time tonight. >> thanks alex. >> just ahead, well the recent discovery of classified documents at president biden's delaware home, will that impact merck arlene's thinking when it comes to indicting former president trump? the former doj prosecutor who recently spoke to about 20 of his former colleagues and acquaintances, he joins me to

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new york times reports that an organization called the propane education and research council, perk, has spent millions of dollars on productive and team electrification messaging for tv, printed social media, using influencers like mr. blah. that is despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of the scientific, community agrees that the burning of fossil fuels is dangerously heating our planet. and the fact that propane gas as appliances can amid dangerous levels of toxic chemicals. the fact that electricity is just cheaper to begin with two. but that is the point. they are spending money to get you to spend your money on a product that in many cases, just doesn't make a lot of sense anymore. this year, in 2023, park plans to spend another $13 million on its anti electrification campaign. so the next time you settle into the catch in football in a whole makeover show to unwind, be alert. the propane lobby maybe the real star of that show. but it is not just propane. and it is not just tv. ohio's republican governor mike dewine signed a bill this year saying that individuals who

want to build a chicken coop in their backyard can do so legally on a smaller scale, which sounds totally fine for the backyard chicken coop enthusiasts. but buried in that chicken bill was the very not chicken related amendment that legally we define natural gas is a source of green energy. natural gas, which is primarily methane, it's not greener g. it is a fossil fuel. and according to the epa it is more than 25 times as potent as cover dioxide at trump inking in the atmosphere. this chicken bill also changed a state regulations to make it easier to franklin state own land, that changed like a totally language that said that state agencies may lease state land for the production of oil natural gas to saying they shall lease that land. tonight agencies have to lease land for fracking. here's the thing. like h g tv host praising

propane, this chicken bill was not fully homegrown. today, the washington post reveals that too dark money groups with ties to the gas industry, they got the bill passed. the empowerment alliance but more than $1 million supporting ohio publicans in the 2022 election. this bill passed with only republican support. the american legislative exchange council, known as alec, it circulated a model bill for lawmakers to copy and paste and distributed talking points for the bill's proponents. it worked. the law of the land, and the state of ohio, now defies a science and logic and instead reflects the desires of the natural gas industry. and that whole scheme is coming to a state near you. a newsletter, the impairment alliance center on friday, they wrote that states like texas, louisiana, pennsylvania, west virginia are top energy producing states. they should follow suit. on tv, and on social media, and state legislatures, fossil fuel lobbies are running in a low at campaign to trying to trick you to think they are about the

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what reporters got out of biden after inundating him and yelling at him with questions about classified documents found in his possession, while president biden was holding a meeting with the dutch prime minister. i was a, white house press secretary said the administration was cooperating with the justice department but that the ongoing investigation is preventing the white house from further comment. meanwhile, new details are emerging from, about the doj's -- considered but rejected role in biden document search. according to the paper, the doj considered having fbi agents longer biden's lawyers in search for classified documents at his homes but decided against it to avoid complicating later stages of the investigation. the doj also opted out because, unlike trump's legal team, biden's attorneys were cooperating, in fact were the ones who brought the issue to the doj in the first place. this decision, like so many other ones, shows the unprecedented circumstances

attorney general merrick garland faces while also navigating parallel investigations into former president trump's handling of classified documents, and the sprawling investigation into his attempts to overturn the 2020 election. here is how -- frames it in his new political profile on garland. an analysis by the congressional research service described him as a meticulous and cautious jurist, writing with precision and an eye toward ensuring that the court does not overreach in any particular case. but he notes, while judge garland, then judge garland, what often turned to establish case on legal precedent, there's no comparable body of guidance for how prosecutors should build a criminal case or even when they should charge one, and even less so when the potential criminal is a former president. this dilemma is unlike virtually any other in garland

's career, because, intervening full sense he find himself having to make the rules rather than simply follow or interpret them. joining us now is ankush kedari, former federal prosecutor and contributing writer for political magazine. thanks for being here tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> one of the things i found was surprising in this very exhaustive, very well reported piece on the attorney general, it is just how much of a political, i won't say actor, or maybe savant, but how sensitive he is to the political trade winds. can you talk a little bit more about that? because i think the public understands him at least at this point, to be so decidedly apolitical. >> i'm glad you brought that up. that was really one of the things i wanted to get through that piece. there is this notion that this is the judge, he is devoid of politics, he is outside the

political realm. but she has had a career that has been intertwined with the fortunes of the democratic party, it is no accident that a lawyer becomes an attorney general. not even the most brilliant, gracious kind person. he has friends in politics, he's been in and out of political a little legal circles for decades. he has people who are deeply enmeshed in the clinton world in the like. so, there is that which is about his biography in his history, i don't think secondarily the latter half of the piece, really how political considerations are hanging over his tenure at the justice department, how might they be influencing him. >> given that, when we have all the news, the swirl around biden in his possession, willful or not, of certain classified documents, lesser number, the situation is again different but nonetheless, finding classified documents at various residences or in the office that he was using, i mean for garland, it is already such a complicated landscape. do you feel like he is trying to really, compensate for the fact that there is seemingly a looming criminal indictment over president trump by being particularly aggressive on the biden investigation? >> you know i, don't know if

there truly is a looming criminal indictment. obviously, we are in terrain where that is avery real possibility. >> or at least a possibility of it i guess. >> there is a special counsel named, giving a mandate on two significant areas. so, i think one way of interpreting it is, i thinking about it is, -- last ruesday he took an extraordinary step. searching for presidents home, what the fbi. and lo and behold, a few months later, he gets told by joe biden's lawyers, oh we have some documents of her own. i don't know this man particularly well, i do my best to channel him, if it were me, and i expect on some level him, it must have been irate. here he is -- doing something truly unprecedented, generating this political controversy. now it has been sort of mocked around with, at the results of biden's conduct. >> when we talk about the two special counsels he appointed, jack smith is a special counsel who is overseeing the

investigation into mar-a-lago and january 6th, president trump's role in both. robert hur is that person that garland chose to look into the biden documents situation. -- do you think that reflects -- and where the track smith is not in terms of political donations? and his role in the trump administration? do you think you think that reflects anything in terms of garlands, i won't see sense of punitive streak in garland but do you think you might've been frustrated by the disclosures from the biden administration? >> i imagine he was. to your point about this person having a more significant political profile than jack smith, he is a political appointee in the trump administration, i don't think it is an accident. i do think there is some effort to make sure that, if this investigation is going to happen, he can do his best at sort of placating people who may be skeptical of it,

including by putting a trump appointee in charge of it. obviously, the person who had it before, john louche, was also a trump appointee. -- since left, and i think honestly that is one of those think that reflects this up to tv to public perception and the politics swirling round him to despite -- >> you make this key point that early on in his career he is very concerned about the institutional integrity of the justice department, there was the media circus around oj simpson and then he is tasked with managing the response to the oklahoma city bombing, and the story about how to, resurrect, represent to the american public the efficacy and the importance and the institutional integrity of the doj. it feels like we are in another moment in terms of garland and the doj and what, where we are going from here. we have this attack on the sort of institutions of democracy,

there is a, there is a real skepticism for -- here is a chance to restore that integrity. do you think that garland is looking at it in such a high stakes manner? it doesn't feel like he wanted to have to take on trump at the outset of his career as a. g., and now he finds himself in almost an impossible position? >> people who know him well will tell you that he understands this, he gets the political stakes. i have a hard time scoring that with the actual record. because, as you say, something hugely significant happened on january 6th. joe biden took office a couple weeks later, a couple months later was when merrick garland takes office. my own view is that, as an observer, at that point in time there should've been a very agressive and robust investigation into the trump white house and campaign concerning january 6th and the months-long campaign leading up to it. and also the financial sort of shenanigans. but chiefly january 6th. and your analogy is a good one, but you know in a terrorist attack, there's going to be no

question there is going to be an aggressive law enforcement response. this was different. i think that incomparable level of responsiveness and aggressiveness should've been brought to bear, not to be overzealous or irresponsible or anything like that, but that didn't happen. i think 2021, a significant part of 2022 as well, what -- appears to have gone by with a kind of hoping that they wouldn't have to deal with trump head on. >> thanks jerry six committee, those hearings change the landscape for -- concludes could or, you think so much. great reporting. >> we will be right back.

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tonight. msnbc's town hall, on the national day of racial healing featuring my colleagues and friends, lorries, chris hayes, and john moran -- starts right now, live from new orleans. this is an msnbc special presentation. sponsored by the w. k keller foundation. the national day of racial