ukraine. the war there continues to move on relentlessly. there's obviously, questions about funding now from washington to ukraine. future funding. what's your sense how much more complicated that is going to be now that republicans are in charge of the house? >> one thing you have time. right? house and senate passed funding for ukraine in the omnibus bill approved end of december. government funding for the rest of fiscal year 2023. however, definitely a little more difficult in a republican-controlled house. that's because there is a contingent of house republicans a business apprehensive to continuously sending funding to ukraine, however largely bipartisan on both sides. a few outliers opposed. an area we could see bipartisanship, but anything in this congress, you have to keep a close watch on. >> i suppose. congressional reporter for the his, thank you for joining us. and thanks for all of you getting up "way too early" on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now.

i endorsed ron, and ron, instead of dropping out of the race went to ahead of the race by a lot. i think up to 71 or something like that. in one night. i got him elected. pure and simple. now i hear he might want to run against me so we'll handle that the way i handle things. >> oh, here we go. we'll handle that the way i handle things. >> which sounds like a mob threat. actually, when you look how he handles things. >> lately -- >> just losing. >> it's losing. former president trump with what sounded like a threat in talking about a potential 2024 matchup against florida governor ron desantis. >> and for running against him. >> and conservative unusual group helped him win the white house back in 2016. who could have saw this coming? >> already attacked the pro lifer, now evangelicals? >> and real power in the house

thanks to kevin mccarthy's desperate dealmaking to become speaker. >> reminds me of an expression we heard in the south pacific during the war. by the way, we came back after the war and, when willie and i worked in the mills of eastern pennsylvania they didn't appreciate us going around talking about -- >> sorry, willie. >> a little japanese sayings, but willie, did you know -- did you know that willie is the best poker player across the south pacific? took more money from -- from soldiers, sailors and, you know, anyway, willie and i would always say, the raise -- said this in japan. >> why are you doing this to willie? >> i'm not doing this to willie. called him the east end assassin so good at poker during lunch breaks. >> and looking over his shoulder? >> no. that was me. >> we were different. came back changed men. we lived, loved and laughed

where we could. >> and over my shoulder. they didn't appreciate it. anyway. >> do we have a video? >> parents' name was rog. >> rog? >> that's another story. there's a saying in japan, as willie and i know, and now a lot of people in the east know, the japanese like to say, the raised nail will be hammered down, and willie, of course, that comes to mind when i look at the picture of those back benchers who suddenly have been raised up. some crazy, crazy people there, that are going to be running really important positions on the hill. and it's just not going to go well. >> well, put it this way -- we're going to dig into that story but 9/11 truthers on the 9/11 security committee. let that sink in, any about it. shows you why someone like congresswoman taylor

greene, clearly had a deal to sit on prominent committees, despite everything we know about her. all the statements, all the tweets, everything she's said and done got really important jobs and she's not alone. >> yeah. and jonathan lemire, when i was telling that story about willie and me coming home from the war, you knew where i was going with that. right? >> yeah. i was, i, all viewers, knew exactly where you were going with that, joe. >> yeah. and last night, weren't you -- you were up really late last night. weren't you? whip a fellow boston boy? >> yeah. didn't get much sleep taping "late night with seth meyers" last night. a quick turnaround. 12:35 a.m., late-night show followed by a 5:00 a.m. morning show. yeah. running on fumes and caffeine but there i am. seth was wonderful. >> doesn't he tape that show at like 1:30 in the afternoon? >> yeah, but -- >> we're just going to pull back

the curtain. >> yes, joe. go for the wall there. >> yeah. taped it, it's like at 4:00. really was not a big deal. i got to bed in plenty of time. set and team was really great. joe, demoting the off-season of the boston red sox. >> oh, good. perfect. >> time well spent. sorry you're operating on -- so little sleep. >> oh, please. >> 6.5 hours sleep. yeah. soldiering through. >> so a little of lemire on "late night." and kevin mccarthy a straightforward deal from democrats to avoid default on the country. >> seems like a good tact. if you want to wreck the economy. and i think -- mr. mccarthy made -- >> remember, extreme caucus pinned against the wall. one move he's out along with joe, willie and me. we have -- >> put that on a bumper sticker. >> former white house press secretary now msnbc host general

pa sake. attorney and contributing columnist for the "washington post" george conway and president on the council of foreign relations richard haass is with us this morning. good to have you all with us today. >> very sorry -- >> to be here. there is new controversy this morning in the house after republicans once stripped of committee assignments in the last congress for extremist or violent comments and actions are now back in powerful positions after the house gop filled a number of key committee spots. this as another gop house members who publicly expressed insindtary and extremist views have also been elevated to top committees under house speaker kevin mccarthy's leadership, according to the "washington post" citing sources, republican congresswoman marjorie taylor greene of georgia will be seated on the homeland security committee and the house oversight and account act committee. greene was stripped of committee

assignments during the last congress for past support of political violence and history of anti-semitic and racist remarks. she claimed on social media that deadly school shootings were staged. like calling for the execution of democratic leaders and federal ats. she once endorsed claims that 9/11 was perpetrated by the u.s. government, and supported the baseless theory that space lasers owned by a jewish cabal had caused one of california's deadliest wildfires. >> much more, i just want to stop us right here. >> painful. >> we didn't mention, the names we're mentioning now we really didn't mention -- i didn't mention marpgry taylor greene when she was a -- didn't talk about other back ventures that much because it's like, you know, they -- they wanted to get press. they didn't necessarily need it here, but same time, why amplify

something that somebody's a back-bencher. now she's a key player in kevin mccarthy's speakership, and i'm just -- i'm curious what is the impact of having somebody who's a 9/11 truther, somebody, at the top, anti-semitic remarks. we laugh about jewish space lasers, but, you know, it's -- it's not actually funny when you have somebody who's -- who's made bizarre anti-semitic comments and the whole george soros conspiracy theories, anti-jew, the hatred that spews out. suddenly on these critical committees. suddenly being put in positions to be one of the more powerful members of the house? >> it's not funny, joe. this is probably one of the most serious moments in modern american history to think about what we're rated against

internationally. china, russia doing what it's doing in ukraine. north korea, terrorists and so forth. all of these global challenges coming at us. at the same time domestically we're as divided as we've ever been and can't pass necessary legislation to cope with things. i expect at some point we'll talk about the debt ceiling and so forth. suddenly all the foxes turned into gamekeepers. just at precisely the time at home and abroad we have an inbox in many ways is unprecedented. so, yeah. she'll say things that will attract notice. she's a bomb thrower a flame thrower, but -- it's a big but -- we need the u.s. government to perform. these people aren't interesting in governing but more performance artists. yeah. once we scratch through it and get down to it, the idea that these people now have the obligation to govern without any obvious capacity to govern, ought to give people more than a

little pause. >> talking marjorie taylor greene there. also congressman gosar of arizona seated on the house oversight committee and resources committee. the house voted november 2021 to censure gosar and remove him from committee assignments after tweeting an altered video depicting him killing democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez and swinging two swords at president biden. boebert of colorado, also seated in the house oversight committee along with greene and gosar. all four voted against certifies president biden's 2020 presidential win after the january 6th capitol insurrection. and they are some of president trump, of course, most fervent supporters in the house. democrats highly critical of boebert citing repeated attacks against omar, and said at christian conference last year that jesus didn't have enough

ar-15s to "keep his government from killing him." congressman perry said heavily involved in president trump's plan to overturn the 2020 election and will sit on the house foreign affairs committee and republican congressman andy biggs of arizona also reportedly asked for a presidential pardon from former president trump to excuse his role in trying to overturn the 2020 election will be a member of the powerful house judiciary committee. so george conway it is official now, the capture of the republican party by these people, these trumpists, these insurrectionists now is complete as they hold actual power in the congress. >> well, at least we have a country where anybody can be elected to congress no matter who they are or pretend to be. it's horrible. it's terrible that these people are in a position of power. they don't, they aren't serious

about governing. they absolutely, it's all performance art to them. and, you know, it's -- it's awful. >> yeah. it absolute is. and jen pa sake, somebody supporting donald trump is one thing. 75 million people supported donald trump. >> yeah. >> so that -- that's obviously not an issue on committees, but you look at some of these people that with the mettle of trying to overturn a democratic election and you see now that they're in power. you look at the decisions they're going to be making. suddenly, and, my gosh, we have a great example of it coming right, right before us with -- with the fact we may default on -- on our debts for the first time as a country. >> yeah. >> these are the people now that are going -- basically going to hold the entire country hostage. >> that's exactly right, joe,

and, you know, i would say on the debt limit, you know, you have kevin mccarthy, who has not told anyone, or some people may know but we certainly don't know, the public doesn't know what he promised to the extreme wing of his party as rlates to the debt limit. we know he promised cuts. devil's in the details especially dealing with the crazy train. what we're talking about with the debt limit is potentially major cuts to domestic programs. that means medicaid, medicare, social security, veterans programs, housing. they have to pick among these, if they are going to make these cuts. so when you see kevin mccarthy, i think yesterday, basically presented as he's the sane actor it's important to remember the devil's in the details here and the right wing of his party is pressuring him to make massive cuts that will hurt the public. >> and when you look at all of this as a whole, this is why george santos makes sense, by the way.

we've got a story about him coming up stealing a dead dog's money. i mean, it actually gets worse. we'll have that in just a moment, but richard haass, given everything we're talking about, can you talk about the global implications given that some of these extreme crazies, if i could use the word, are now in power, and despite over the debt limit is getting dangerous lis serious? ? >> a couple reactions. one is the united states is the world's oldest functioning democracy. what this does is in many ways puts democracy in a terrible light. give authoritarians ammunition to justify the way they run the country. this adds to uncertainty whether we will be there for them. whether the allies ukraine or ally of japan or south korea, trump has introduced a lot of uncertainty to that and for foes, russians and others. this is seen as opportunity. if we're so divided here at

home, that means we're no longer certain, consistent or steady of an actor in the world. so, again, it's not simply that we are, our own democracy is challenged from within by people whose commitment to democracy is suspect, but raises fundamental questions about our ability to act consistently. and no one to take our place, and we won't be able to insulate ourselves from the implications or consequences of an unsteady american hand. so this will have ultimately major global as well as domestic controversy and could be over ukraine when we first see it or debt ceiling. a question what issue will be the first indication something is qualitatively different here and qualitatively wrong. >> following the point, ukraine funding, omnibus bill, okay for a while. questions whether the house will keep that going. word today president putin is planning a major speech.

maybe announcing a second mobilization there. that war will be with us a very long time. the united states will need to support it, and also this is evidence of the deals mccarthy's had to make. yes, about the debt ceiling. white house has gone on the offensive think trying to push what have you promised and what could it mean for the american people? also that these fringe members of the party are now in power, and the chaos that is going to come. on all of these s akership in jeopardy, where at any point one member can trigger that motion to vacate. people i talk to in the house, not a question of if but when. >> why wouldn't they? they're in it for the publicity. the five or six that got all the publicity. i mean, get tired of actually going to committees and working. you just blow the place up, and you have every reporter in

washington asking questions again for 72 hours. yeah. certainly expect to do it. george conway, though, i wanted to talk to you about the problem here. we have a group of people that, just subjectively, they believe in gesturing more than governing. and i read something fascinating. a conversation with david brooks and brett stephens and brett stephens asking david brooks when he noticed the split, talked about certain dartmouth students who went on to be in the media world and he said, these were dartmouth students that mika knew, back in the 1980s. >> yeah. >> but these dartmouth students he noticed after talking to them, they weren't interested in governing. they were interested in gesturing and owning the libs, and instead of reagan's sunny optimism, his conservatism, they

aren't conservatives as much as they were ill liberals, and that's what we have here. ill-liberals who weren't interested in governing but interested in owning the libs. and what does this mean for this country over the next two years? >> just basically anihilists. nothing matter to them. governing doesn't matter to them. it's all about attention-seeking and self-gratification and also, let's not forget the grip. all of the small dollar fund-raising, it's all about the grip. getting attention. there are people out there who like seeing -- things get destroyed, and things get ruined, and look, there's a self-sustaining aspect to it that when, the more the government kind of falls into dysfunction, the more they say, ah. that's, that seat in the federal government, the government doesn't work and becomes self-justifyingly the spiral

into, into dysfunction. >> yeah. and you know, this is -- willie, circle back to something we've talked absence republicans lost -- again -- and in the house, so badly underperformed and now have the speakership that is constantly in peril. majority constantly in peril, and here's the problem. george was talking about the grist. grip. i was talking about the grip. what they've done is learned to create cottage industries you have a podcast or whatever you have, you can make money by owning the libs. you can make -- not govern, but you can make money by owning the libs. you can carve out a good, little corner of the market. you can make millions of dollars, if you are a member of congress. you can say the most extreme, outrageous things. you can talk about how jesus would have escaped crucifixion

if he had more ar 15s. talk about jewish space lasers if you're marjorie taylor greene. you can talk about killing democratic members, like aoc, if you're paul gosar and what happens? they're rewarded, because there's a cottage industry of extremists that will send $25 checks to these most extreme members and suddenly they're raising $6 million, $7 million, $8 million a cycle? whereas if they were actually working and governing, maybe raise $500,000, $1 million a cycle. it's -- and so this is important for our viewers to understand what the republicans are doing and why they're doing it. they're doing it for the grip, first of all, but secondly, why is it enough to get them rich but not enough to get them to win elections? because they're microtargeting,

willie. >> right. >> and in that micro targeting making all of that money there are people that wake up and go to work and in suburban atlanta, in suburban philadelphia, in suburban detroit in suburban milwaukee, and they're like -- these people are crazy. i'm not voting for them and why democrats keep winning elections. >> this works in house of representatives in a marginally small district. marjorie taylor greene, say these things, goal, accurately, annoy the right people. these people we all know and talk about from time to time on this show, republican members of the house, they know what to say and do to annoy the right people. and then respond to the reaction they get from those people and raise a bunch of money. you're right. host podcasts. marjorie taylor greene will do things most of us find abhorrent and make a ton of money in her district and win by a mile. it doesn't work statewide.

worked for donald trump in 2016. not so well in 2020 and beyond as we've seen results of that. these people in the house will continue to do that. you wonder if more broadly the republican party, some day, learns the lesson it doesn't help you win state-wide and national elections. >> think about this, jen. i've got to say, as a guy that was born in doorville, georgia, and spent a lot of time in georgia. i have relatives that live in georgia. i'm really shocked. i'm really shocked that -- joe biden won in '20. ah -- senator warnock won in '20. senator ossoff won in '20. joe biden won in '22. senator warnock won in '22. i mean, this is state-wide!

in georgia! the empire state of the south. it is, it should be, still a red state. look at the legislature. this -- look at the governor. this should be a red state. but it's the extremism. again, what works in north georgia in a congressional district, actually damages the republican party state-wide. they have been whil wiped out i georgia election after election after election. >> true. and how warnock won he went to a lot of those red, conservative districts. he didn't win them, of course. no one would expect that, but he competed for them. he did better than many people thought he would do. and that is a state, interesting on both sides of the aisle, really, when you look at the governor. he didn't run as an election denying extremist either. right? so what is the lesson that

people can learn from georgia? well, they learn the lesson that willie just mentioned which is, if you want to run state-wide, if you want to appeal to the masses of the country, running at a right-wing lunatic may not be your ticket to exactly get there. we haven't seen evidence of that in the house, but certainly we have seen it to your point, joe, in state-wide elections, and national elections in recent years. >> all right. mika, when we come back i want to talk about this dog that you were -- >> it's so disturbing. i know. >> you wanted to say, fido. >> if you were disgusted, or weren't disgusted enough, this will put you over the top. you don't steal a dead dog's money. >> first of all, i didn't know dead dogs had money. secondly, if they do have money, how sad george santos would allegedly do that, but -- >> okay. >> so, wait. >> look through it. i want -- >> gofundme site, right?

>> we'll get to it. >> and he stole fido's money? >> we're going to take a break now. >> the dog died? >> yes. he stole it. still ahead on "morning joe" -- ah -- we will get the very latest from ukraine. we're getting new information just in about a helicopter crash outside of kyiv that killed more than a dozen people, including some top ukrainian officials, and with the deadline looming we'll go live to capitol hill as house republicans and the biden administration refuse to budge when it comes to the debt ceiling. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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investigations, george santos now is a sitting member on two congressional committees. santos was added to the science space and technology committee and to the small business committee. two of the lower profile groups. house speaker kevin mccarthy had previously confirmed santos would serve on at least one committee, but did rule out any more powerful seats like intelligence or oversight. a bipartisan group of lawmakers raised concerns at having santos on a committee with access to classified information could be a national security risk, mika. >> then again, that applies to about half the republicans now in the house. >> here we go. a local news website is reporting a disabled veteran is calling out congressman george santos claiming the lawmaker scammed him out of $3,000 for his dieing dog's life-saving surgery. the allegations are from 2016 and according to the site the veteran, richard says he was living in a tent with his

service dog safire when he learned the dog had a tumor and claim as veterinary technician recommended friends of pet united run by george santos who was using the name anthony devadder at the time. offstauf and another jersey veteran tried to intervene to help told the local website santos closeds the go fund me set up for safire after it raised $3,000 on social media and disappeared. and a social media post from 2016, wrote, i'm sorry to say that we were scammed by anthony devolder. the dog died in 2017. emails from a local news website to santos and his attorneys were not returned.

nbc news has not confirmed this report, and has reached out to santos for comment overnight, but has not immediately heard back. >> jonathan lemire -- >> could safire been saved? curious, and what kind of dog was safire? >> looked like a pit bull. come on, man. waiting for a response, but, come on! hello! >> took safire's money. >> how low does this go? >> oh, my gosh. look at safire! >> yeah, and, wrote a post in 2016 saying george santos, who -- >> anthony devolder -- >> seriously. this guy, how can they keep this guy in the house of representatives? >> yeah. there seems to be no bottom here. i admit when i saw the story last night. okay. that can't be right, even for george santos that's too much,

then you read it and see the facebook post from 2016. the contemporary message there suggesting this did happen and we know this is name george santos is using. i wondering whether george santos's name is actually george santos i'm not sure we can take that as face value. this is truly terrible. a veteran going through a terrible time, was homeless, his dog got sick and lost this money, but santos not only is seated he is on a pair of committees. didn't get the good ones saved for marjorie taylor greene and kevin mccarthy doesn't have much to say about it. he's there. his voters put him in we're not stepping in. an investigation will take months. for now george santos is a member of congress, and it's hard to see that changing. i think we all should brace ourselves for what lie comes out next. >> yeah. >> mika, just going to tell you

safire was a pit bull. safire did die because of that tumor. and he did, congressman santos did say, fake. no clue who this is and you know we can take george santos's word to the bank. >> because the tumor, because the tumor was not removed because the money was stolen? >> yes. >> he killed the dog? >> well, we -- we -- this is -- this is a developing story. this is a developing story. we just know, though, richard haass, again, that in realtime in 2016, and this is the sort of thing that we bring you on the show to talk about. >> i knew there was a reason. >> this disabled vet had said that this guy, george santos, using another name, had stolen -- >> might be very cruel. >> stole $3,000. >> of course it's very cruel, but it comes back to, again, this is a party -- i've just got to say. this is the same party a couple

years ago they actually stripped congressman king from iowa of his committees for -- for things much less than what we've been talking about this morning. it's just the continued deevolution of the republican party in the age of trump. >> absolutely. sitting here thinking about inappropriate jokes about 401(k) nines. i apologize. >> i didn't even get that. >> lowest of the low. >> let's all get a tumor. >> serious. again -- the argument of people like this are in public life. we've reached a point. good news, we're 240 years old as a democracy and hopefully got enough resilience and ballast to get through this. the bad news is we've, we're going to find out. going to be tested whether we have enough ballast and resilience to -- to get through

this and the idea that, people like this do have, in some cases security clearances and are going to be voting on assertion issues, including, again, some things we're talking about here like debt ceilings or aid to ukraine or who knows what about taiwan. franklin's line, got a democracy if you can keep it. we're about to test that. >> richard, we'll come back to you and, of course, scrub you of all puns during the break, because coming up we're going to get a report from davos, switzerland, where global leaders are gathered for the world economic forum and i'm going to ask you about that. i've got china the continued struggles, and mika, also, january 6 committee. >> declining to detail stunning revelations about social media in its final report on the capitol attack. we'll explain what the panel found. >> why didn't they? >> and why it was avoided. straight ahead on "morning joe."

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welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at the white house at 6:40 in the morning, and already getting to work. a new report in the "washington post" highlights stunning details uncovered by the january 6th house committee. how social media companies failed to address online extremism and calls for violence leading up to the attack on the capitol. the evidence compiled by the committee was written up in a 122-page memo, but the "post" states "in the end, committee leaders declined to delve into those topics in detail in their final report, reluctant to dig into the roots of domestic extremism taking hold in the republican party beyond former president donald trump and concerned about the risks of a public battle with powerful tech companies." joining us now is co-author of

the new piece at the "washington post," and kat, explain first of all what are some of the things avoided in the final report? >> well, one of the things that the report focused on was how the tech companies actually gave former president trump special treatment. especially twitter. former employees testified to the committee that he really did not have to play by twitter's rules, and they couldn't even use the internal content moderation tools that they use to monitor other accounts to track his tweets. there was also a lot of new detail about just the general lack of preparation within the tech companies for the events of january 6th. former tech employees testified to the committee that they warned senior executives especially at facebook and twitter, that more had to be done to stop coded calls to violence, to stop the stop the steal movement and those actions

ultimately weren't taken. >> you know, so glad you brought up preferential treatment they gave donald trump because we've been hearing of course from the current owner the twitter and other people how poor donald trump was so victimized, and people supporting donald trump were victimized. we had to deal with twitter because donald trump kept using twitter to accuse me of murder and when we talked to him we said, anybody else in the world saying this would have their accounts taken down, and they had no answer. it was very clear even then they were giving him preferential treatment and it continued all the way through january the 6th. how significant was that? twitter's inability to hold donald trump to the same standard they held everybody else to? how important was that to donald trump in fomenting this riot?

>> so the january 6th committee staffers concluded in their report that donald trump's tweet on december 19th when he said, be there, be wild" in reference to january 6th was actually a transformative moment across the internet. not only did it rile people up on twitter it really had affects on other platforms. for instance, the messaging at discord hours after that tweet went out had to take down a server where people were discussing bringing firearms to washington. so what this report really showed was how these social networks can act an a megaphone for these extreme views and magnify them. >> and they did not take dramatic steps to rein in some of these accounts as claim they did, not until after january 6th which was too late.

did you get into the why they didn't want a public fight with these tech companies? why not? >> real concern in washington about power of these tech companies. the amount of resources they have to put up a political fight given their lobbying and public relations arms, and, you know, i think big picture, this was a committee working against a clock. there were a lot of concerns about whether or not they had the time or resources to go up against these companies. one thing that came out in our reporting was that actually staffers had drafted more subpoenas to social media company executives including twitter executive dell harvey, central to a lot of the decisions to not take steps that employees recommended to quell the extremism on january 6th. >> technology policy reporter at the "washington post," kat, thank you very much. tech policy is so important. please, come back with much more. we are very interested in these issues. >> yeah. >> and the also accountability.

>> accountability. you know, george, i've been frustrated for quite some time that you know, section 230 gives tech companies a free pass. they can publish things. they can continue publishing things, in this instance what i was talking about. letting donald trump get lies out about me to -- you know, hundreds of millions of people. and you can't hold him accountable. so they don't live by the rules because of section 230. anybody else would be sued. and then in this case, in this case, twitter doesn't hold donald trump accountable, despite all of the yammering you've heard, which is just such nonsense. they were scared to cross donald trump. now, here's my question -- why was the january 6th committee scared to cross these powerful social media companies? >> i don't know. seems very weird that the people

on the hill are scared of the, of the tech companies and the tech companies are scared of people on the hill and in particular all politicians. it's just this weird dynamic where that's what allowed trump to get away with all the different things that he got away with. it's just inexplicable. on the other hand i will say this to defend the january 6th committee. they wrote an 845-page report. i mean, it was a sprawling document and a sprawling project to begin with. they interviewed i think -- and took the testimony of over 1,000 witnesses. i mean, you can only do so much. it was amazing that they did what they did. you know, the idea of looking at social media and the nature of how donald trump's poison spread throughout the country is, i mean, that's a -- that's a project in and of itself that's a massive project. >> right. >> and i think it's something that we really do need to focus

on. but, again, you know, i mean, they're right. they were right about one thing. i mean, it all came from donald trump. you know, he had this megaphone, he was allowed to hold this megaphone and it all started with him. the other problem is that there's the other side of this, which is that there's a disease in the country. it makes people receptive to this. we talked about the grip earlier and allows people to lie. it's hard to cover it all in one document. >> jonathan lemire, that disease, that disease would not have spread on january 6th without social media. you wrote the book on this. on "the big lie." talk about how, again -- again, january 6th, the committee did a great job.

that said, leaving out the tech companies? leaving out social media? that george talks about the megaphone. this is -- this is the megaphone that trump used to try to overturn a democratic election. you talk about a sickness in the country. these are the arteries through which that disease flowed all the way up until january the 6th. so you can't -- like, somebody needs to release a report on what the social media companies did not do and why they gave donald trump a free pass up until january 6th. >> social media was fundamental to the events of january 6th. fundamental all of donald trump's lies. facebook, yes, but in particular twitter. that was his way of communicating with the american people and it creates the run-up after, november 2020, his entire term in office he used twitter as an attack, as a weapon to

undermine american's faith in the department of justice at times the supreme court. certainly congress, and he used it and he would get people to believe it. and, therefore, they were primed. that's what my book details. how he spent years priming the pump so people were ready for when he needed them which was to contest the election after 2020. to believe his big lie after they had accepted all of his small ones along the way, and social media played a key, key role in that. even beyond the "it will be wild" tweet the days before january 6th. so it is puzzling here that the social media companies are getting a pass. let's recall, they didn't act at all until the days after january 6th when they only then finally suspended him from twitter and facebook. >> psaki. thinking back to his election, his campaign.

his first few years in office, i would lamt everyone to stop and he would tweet misinformation. tweet hatred. he would tweet lies. we both were the subject of his threats, and tweets, and then they were covered as news and amplified all over the place. >> yes. >> it is kind of hard not to look at donald trump's potential crime against our democracy without twitter and facebook and the like? >> i completely agree. i mean if you go back to 2016, social media platforms is the way the russians intervened in our election on his behalf. and at every step, unfortunately. i was in the white house back in 2016, government has been behind. we were behind in 2016. and i think as much as the january 6th committee did the a great job really making a case against trump, they were behind, they're behind here, and they missed a huge opportunity. they also didn't cover the security threats and the issue with not covering these two topics is this is a document for

history. it's meant to prevent this from ever happening again. and we know that trump and his supporters, the russians, people hoop mean to do us harm around the world are using social media platforms to do exactly that. i thought the story was completely eye-popping and i hope that that memo of 122 pages that something is going to happen with that in congress, because this is really the root of what one of our big challenges is moving forward. >> yeah. all right. jen psaki and george conway. thank you very much. we really appreciate it. important conversation. we're following news out of ukraine this morning where 15 people are dead including multiple ukrainian government officials. after a helicopter crash. the crash, which also killed three children occurred in a suburb of kyiv on the eastern side of the city. there's no word yet on the cause. those killed include ukrainian interior minister. his deputy, and ukraine's state

secretary of the ministry of internal affairs. earlier reports indicated the crash occurred near a school. so far the crash injured with know of 25 people including 10 children. hoar risk news. >> richard, very sad news. more tragedy coming out of ukraine. there seems across europe and in america a growing understanding that the -- the level of weapons, the ability of weapons to inflict damage upon invaders is going to have to improve. they're going to have to increase what they send to ukraine. are you getting the sense now that the ukrainians are going to start getting the type of tanks and the type of weapons they need to do more than just hold on in this war? >> gradually we're moving in that direction. the key word here, though, joe, is "gradually." one of the lessons of history, take vietnam, gradual or

incremental escalation doesn't work and i think all along we've been caught between how do you help ukraine but quote/unquote avoid doing too muchish whatever that might be. >> i wonder though, richard, whether that caution now, when we see one war crime after another war crime. >> atrocities reported. >> another crime after yore yore -- another crime after atrosty. i wonder whether perhaps the balance is tipping a bit more towards sending ukraine what it needs? >> i think it's moving in that direction, joe, but not decisively. you raise tanks. there's the question of ability to strike at certain targets deep in the russian parts that they're holding in ukraine or even within russia. obviously aircraft. that's not part of the conversation yet. you just had the german defense minister relieved of her responsibility. we'll see what the new person does there. so i don't think we're quite there. i think there's still a tension in western policy. it's moving gradually as i said in a certain direction of

helping ukraine more but not decisively. >> richard, every day, every day we're seeing headlines, something that i'm just going to say outright, we've been predicting here on "morning joe" for almost a decade, when people have been talking about how china was going to sweep pass us and turn us into their granary. just like people said about japan in the late 1980s, said it wasn't going to happen. we have evidence of that every day. every single day. now the "wall street journal," a shrinking population compounds growth concerns. this is something you and i have been talking about, but also been hearing from people from that region that this poses a grave risk to china's ability to continue to expand economically. talk about the problems in china, but also our alliances around that area that are really

strengthening. in particular, we talk about australia a lot, which we should, bit-of- -- but also japan. ability to strengthen alliances 0 ut there? >> exactly right joe on two points. one is china is not ten feet tall. their economy growing below 3%. fee average oh of covid. the demographic, long-term consequences of the one-child policy have been awful for the chinese economy. china is facing all sorts of domestic headwinds and, yes, has the attention of countries like gentleman parn. japan in many ways has become on the short list if not top of the list of our most important allies. i was just there. what you see in part is the ukraine war. it's had an enormous sobering effect. you then have china, the consolidation of power, aggressive behavior. north korea with missiles and its nuclear program.

so japan is now talking about, more than talking about, committed to doubles their defense budget. this is the world's third largest economy, that has cons consequences. japan sees taiwan is central to its defense. taiwan the forward defense of japan. i actually think, if i were looking at all international stories out there i think japan's emergence out of its post-world war ii special limited role into a full-fledge country with a real national security policy a real close alliance with us, i think that's a big, big story. not just us talking about it, but probably in beijing, when they look at the world, when xi jinping gets up in the morning i would think he's unhappy about that as anything else coming into his inbox. >> richard haass, thank you very much? and still ahead on "morning joe" from enabling fringe members of the gop to promised investigations of the fbi and

the president's family, one of our next guests calls kevin mccarthy's short time as speaker a gift to democrats. plus, live to new mexico ahead of the first court appearance for failed republican candidate accused of orchestrating shootings at the homes of democratic state officials. "morning joe" will be right back. while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market hi, we've both got a big birthday coming up. so we have a lot of questions heabout medicare plans.des we've got a lot of answers! how can i help? well for starters, do you include hearing benefits? how about a plan with dental, vision and hearing benefits? i sure like the sound of that! then how does a $0 monthly plan premium sound? ooooooooh! [laughs] if you're new to medicare, call 1-888-65-aetna.

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last nighted by hadn't a visit with the president of the netherlands. >> thank you, we've had a great relationship with our countries personally i look forward to discussing in a lot more detail. >> thank you. thank you so much and thank you for hosting. the first time in my -- there's a fireplace. >> because the burning classified documents in that fireplace. >> okay. welcome back to "morning joe." it's wednesday, january 18th. look at that beautiful shot of new york city. it's the top of the hour. also ahead this hour, kevin mccarthy is digging in on the debt ceiling. the first political fight of his speakership has the country in danger of defaulting. the latest on the stalemate. also ahead, two democratic senators are trying to play diplomats at the world economic forum in davos. we'll tell you what piece of u.s. legislation has some european manufacturers upset. plus, an eye-opening report

from the "new york times" that appears restaurant workers have been unknowingly paying for a lobby that's fighting against pay raises in the industry. >> that's -- >> come on, now! >> a story, and david pharonhold helped write that story and jonathan lemire is still with us. jonathan didn't get much sleep. >> doing seth meyers? what is that? "the late show" still waiting to see clip. >> joinings conversation along with joe, willie and me, economic analyst steve rattner. nbc news national affairs analyst and executive editor of the ethe recount" john heilemann and real clear politics, amy's daughter joins us this morning. good to have you all onboard. willie. the united states one day away from reaching its borrowing limit having to take

extraordinary measures to keep paying its bills. calling for a straightforward bill only giving the government money it needs to pay on existing obligations. republicans wan certainly concessions. some demands include balancing the budget over ten years and as well as dollar-for-dollar spending cuts. >> debt ceiling off the table? >> i don't see why you would continue to past behavior. wouldn't do props and and wouldn't do a budget? totally off the table. who wants to put the nation at some threat of a debt creeling? nobody wants to do that. we're asking, change our behavior now. sit down, he's the president. we're the majority in the house. the democrats are majority in the senate and exactly the way the founders designed congress to work. find the compromise and find the common sense compromise that

puts us back on to a balanced budget. >> if congress does not vote to raise the debt ceiling by early june, the consequences could be detrimental for everyday americans and the country could lose 3 million jobs and individual americans could lose thousands in 401(k) savings. we clarify that deadline put forward by treasury secretary janet yellen. can't pay our bills but have ways to get us to june even early july. a bit of an art initial deadline tomorrow but a crisis that is looming here. >> the markets will be looking. get to steve rattner in a second to talk about that, but the markets will be looking all along and listening to what the treasury secretary says and also looking at the financial situation here. what's so fascinating, though, and i would love somebody to ask, kevin mccarthy, love somebody to ask these republicans suddenly born again,

balanced budgeters, ask where were they when donald trump was president, when they controlled the house? where were they when they controlled the senate, where were they when they controlled the white house? where were they when they controlled all three? let me tell you where they were. right there. pigs at the trough. increasing the deficit and america's federal debt to record levels in 2017, in 2018. donald trump again in 2019. in 2020, devon mccarthy never said anything like this in 2017 or '18 or '19 or '20. none of these back-benchers said this in 2017, in 2018 -- how do i know? i kept talking about it and no republican wanted to talk about it. i even talked to mark meadow head of the freedom caucus. i said, mark, this is what you're supposed to do. stop chasing conspiracy

theories! we're going to plan to balance the budget. work on the plan to rein in spending, because if you don't do it when you have a president in the white house you're going to have no credibility when you have a democrat in the white house. and, john heilemann, that's where we are. why in the hell would any democrat listen to these people acting like they're -- they're fiscally responsible when we saw the deficit explode when republicans ran washington under george w. bush. and it's exploded again to record levels under donald trump. and now suddenly, suddenly, they've found religion? i mean -- this is going to end really badly for republicans. like, they can figure out how to negotiate a peaceful way out of this now, or they can do it after the economy crashes down, but the democrats aren't going to move on this and they certainly shouldn't move on this, because this is pure political posturing. >> yeah. i think that's one of the, really one of the great lessons

of the last, what? say new millennial politics. two terms of bush and one term of trump. more republicans in the white house in this century than there have been democrats in terms of years, right? and what that, with that record in this period of time has demonstrated a exactly this fact. that whatever republicans once thought about the deficit, whatever they once thought about spending, fiscal discipline, entitlements and all things back in your day at least people paid lip smps toe occasionally voted on no longer have any credibility on those issues if you think about those 12 years of republican presidencies and then the 8 years of obama. no 2 years of biden. clear is that republicans have become, a phrase sums it up. care about deficits when democrats are in office don't care at all when republicans are in office. >> at all.

>> and can't look at the record of the red ink spilled in bush and trump administrations particularly when republicans were in control and not draw that conclusion. democrats finally, not much of a caulk us anymore in the democratic party for pretending the republican party is serious about this stuff. look at them you and you you're not serious about this and idea of consensus on spending is a fantasy as long at the republican party hits that way because democrats understand it's a fraud. >> numbers 7.8 trillion added to the debt during trump years thanks to the tax cuts. >> good number. ooh, good number. >> steve, talk about the implications. the debt ceiling a big concept to a lot of people who don't pay as close attention to all of this as you do. how serious is this moment? how important is it to meet our debt obligations and what could happen if this congress doesn't get moving? >> it's deadly serious, willie. the debt obligations of the

country, $22 trillion of debt out there are in effect this countries's home mortgage. money we borrowed along the way to pay for our other expenses and to continue the homeowner analogy, you default on your more guelph, mortgage, severe consequences on ability to borrow money and severe consequences for your family. saw it somewhat in 2011, closest we've gotten. a down rating and permanent cost. jobs lower than people thought they otherwise would be and even when resolved put ourselves into this economic straightjacket, very artificial budget cuts. not a thoughtful way of going ak about dealing with the deficit a lot of us know we have to do but it was a disaster and this is one that's even scarier because

republicans, frankly, seem crazier than they were in 2011. >> just following up on what willie said, his number. think about this. it took the united states of america 225 years to build up a $7.8 trillion -- took us 225 years. john heilemann, republicans in four years, in just four years, built up $7.8 trillion in debt. so, yes. raging hypocrites, but also, john, you and i have been around, getting others in, in a second, been around like us to see these fights before. we know how this ends. four, five, six extremists in the house of representatives that are willing to wreck the economy because they don't care. they'll just raise more money off of raising the economy,

destroying the economy. you've got democrats running the senate. you have democrats running the white house. you've got democrats, you know, 212 votes in the house of representatives. there's no way that they're going to fold to a couple of extremists. so what does that mean? we're going to get pushed up against a deadline. things are going to melt down. and then -- you're going to have republicans folding just like the "wall street journal" said. you know they will! especially the republicans that got elected in biden's district. so, again, this is all gesturing. this is all farce, but the problem is they could wreck the economy. they could cost 3 million jobs. people to lose their jobs. they could -- people, billions of dollars in 401(k) accounts. this is gesturing with a catastrophic price potentially.

>> right. and, of course, part of the reason, joe, rattled off democrats who power of democrats in the senate, the white house controlled by democrats. the other thing is the person who thinks about this much the same as democrats is mitch mcconnell, who looks at all of this and thinks, you know, not exactly the same way, but mitch mcconnell more or less we're not going to default only our debt. so they have a powerful ally in mcconnell who over the great shows in washington over the course, however long kevin mccarthy holds on positive speakership will be the interplay bean mcconnell and mccarthy. the politics in addition to crazy republicans in the house performing to raise money, the other performance politics, a good toss to a.b. and excellent people as mccarthy, mccarthy's performance here. mccarthy's knows what the end game here is but so desperate, we've seen evidently over the course of this month of january, to do anything required to get

and keep ahold of the speakership must now enact this kind of kamikaze politics even if deep in his heart or somewhere in the back of his head he knows what the end game really is and what the damage would be done to the country, the economy and to the republican party if really a default, but he's going to play the game because he knows he has to appease the hard-line caucus among republicans and we're going to see that is kabuki theater. this is going to boil down no now what kevin mccarthy is going to do and how close to the line he's willing to go to keep hold, to keep those people onboard, those far-right congress people onboard and not try to vacate his speakership and put that back up to yet another vote. >> yeah. and john brings up a great point. you have republicans also, whether you're talking about mitch mcconnell, whether you're talking about republican donors.

whether you're talking about small business owners, big business owners, talking about anybody with a stake in the economy that's just not playing to the most extreme in the republican base. you've got all of these people that want this crisis resolved. >> right. >> they don't want it to become a crisis, and so the cards are all stacked against kevin mccarthy on this kamikaze mission. it will not only wreck the economy, it will also be the final straw for people that are holding out and hope that the republican party finally becomes the mainstream party. so this is just a lose-lose for mccarthy. again, the sooner he can figure out a way out of it the better he's going to be. >> i'm not sure the way out, we can talk about the options he has. with everything, though, you laid out about the trump years, this performance politics that we're watching they're not even

good performances. >> no. >> the hypocrisy is so blatant. >> we need a gofundme site for the bad acting. >> oh, the bad acting. a.b.'s new piece for "real clear politics" entitled "kevin mccarthy is already a gift to democrats." you write in part by middle of next year house democrats fighting to regain majority senate democrats working to maintain majority president biden or another democrat running for president and any republican running for president will all be running against the house gop. why? because much of all that house republicans have promised to do in the 118th congress will backfire on them politically, turn up independent voters and bolster democrats heading into the critical 2024 election. while they battle among themselves over spending cuts, republicans have promised multiple investigations into the fbi, hunter biden, joe biden, and the u.s.-mexico border.

should these probes fail to turn up significant revelations, we can be assured of high-wattage theater from those intended to go viral. there's fund-raising to do after all, and that combat footage will help the anti-establishment rebels even if it threatens the house majority come november of 2024. house republicans know all of this, but they choose a maelstrom anyway. why, a.b.? >> because of kevin mccarthy's desperate ambition. kevin mccarthy watched the 2022 midterms knowing he fought with his super pac to try to stave off the nomination of freaky maga candidates and watched the results and knows he did not have a red wave that gave him a durable majority, because of freaky maga candidates, and then to hold on to a speakership in

name only, he has decided to make the house republican majority govern as maga freaks. he has also cut a deal with the growth to stay out of open primaries so more of them can be elected next year. he's doing the opposite of what mitch mcconnell and sane republicans want, which is to grow their majorities next year after learning the results of the midterm elections. swing voters split their tickets and were willing to support sane republicans at the top and not down the ticket where they found the candidates unacceptable. so kevin mccarthy made it clear in these negotiations to hold on to the speakership as you guys talked about all morning, that there is an incentive structure and a permission structure. the incentive structure for the nihilists is they will continue to raise money, amplify their relevance in maga world and grow

their national platforms fighting rinos in the establishment. the permission structure is that kevin mccarthy told them i will pay you ransom and i will pay it again. so they will continue to take hostages throughout his speakership. we can sit here and say, oh, he's going to fold. of course he's not going to let the government default, but that will be at the last minute and that's probably when he knows it will lose his speakership and chair at the top of the congress. so he is going to play this out as long agency he can indulging them and rattling the markets, making the federal reserve and -- and official washington concerned and preparing for a default, because we know as has been mentioned this morning that even the debate in 2011 is so destructive, cost the taxpayers over a billion dollars and

rattled global markets by giving us a credit rating downgrade. how far they're willing to go to do that really depends on just a few people who have nothing to lose. joe's very familiar with the vote no, hope yes caucus. if you know the end that the democrats will make a deal with kevin mccarthy and the senate majority with just democrat and the president who is a democrat, and pass a lean debt ceiling why not fight to the bitter end so that you can be the savior who held out? that's why their incentive structure goes against any kind of cooperation. >> yeah. a.b., as you say, a lot of this stuff we'll and have already seen in the house theatrical about fund-raising, podcasts getting tv hits, about being famous, frankly. and there is a, we should point out, the democrat-controlled senate and democrat-controlled white house. the odds of getting that through

are slim to none but real implications we've started to see now. talked about the debt ceiling and seats granted to people on really important committees like homeland security. congresswoman greene from georgia has spoken favorably of 9/11 truthers in the past, and now sits on the committee homeland security that was established in the wake of the attacks of 9/11. there will be investigations and worked gummed up by the power they've received now from kevin mccarthy. >> exactly. and this is -- i mean, this is -- she is now, because marjorie taylor greene did not join the rebels and stood by mccarthy, is a mccarthy lieutenant with enormous power going forward. not only because she's been given powerful committee assignments, but because she's going to be among the ranks of leaders around the -- the inner circle of kevin mccarthy. making decisions about how far these investigations should go,

and what their response would be to any kind of emergency congress would have to wrestle with, whether it's more help for, support for the war in ukraine or any other confrontation with the russians or the chinese. she is going to be pushing, likely, as a member of the homeland security committee for impeachment of secretary mayorkas and on oversight for all of these investigations into hunter biden and into the investigators, basically protecting donald trump from the investigations into him and his various potential crimes. so she's -- these powerful figures are going to dominate the headlines, and this is going to be a backlash, create a backlash for republicans. kevin mccarthy is doing the exact opposite thing that the republicans need to do, to grow his majority in the next

congress. the idea of just, you know, investigating hunter biden might seem abstract right now, but day in and day out, focussing on the president's son and his very troubled life and creating a real source of pain for the president and his family over time is going to become really distasteful exercise. likely among swing voters who rejected this and polls show they're not interested in this types of investigations. looking at everything mccarthy is doing truly looks like he's helping democrats. >> yeah. he really is, and i think -- john heilemann, it's all a shock opera and, again, the shock opera, a.b. said and we've talked about, the shock opera pays the bills for the extremists that can beat their chests and in self-righteous indignation they going to vote

no, vote no, vote no, and i suppose the way this gets resolved, i suppose, is a discharged disposition with all democrats and get five, six, seven, eight republicans and maybe, just maybe, it resolves itself before the markets crash, but playing a very dangerous game. >> yeah. >> and, again, if they don't care about the economy, and, know, these small group of -- of maga extremists don't care about the economy, what is they end up in the minority just like a.b. said because they're going to turn off the voters who make a difference between whether republicans or democrats win. >> yeah. all of that is right, and i always want to, like to take these opportunities now here in the new congress to remind everyone. 139 house republicans voted not to certify joe biden's election

in 2020. of those 118, 124 ran for re-election and 118 members of this current sitting house of presentatives i like to call them free range insurrection are still up there. he got a deal with those people and marjorie taylor greene, extreme version of it but 118 of them. 118 in that caucus he's got to cope with and then, you know, bad as all that is, joe, all the shock opera, dangers, risks to the economy, there's also, go back to that clip you played top of this block, i believe i heard kevin mccarthy use the, these two words in front of the cameras. i believe he used the word "aprop "aprops" and "omni". violence in the english language apparently we'll hear from him speaking bureaucratese or

congressese. can't talk that way in front of the american people. they don't like it and don't understand it. >> john heilemann, and a. b., thanks for being on. and a live report from ukraine on the heels of a deadly helicopter involving top officials. plus at the world economic forum divisions between europe and america are beginning to show. nbc's keir simmons joins us from davos with more on that. also, our conversation with award wynning actor hugh jackman. what he's saying about his newest project and "know your value" 50 over 50 initiative, a first look at the group of women proving success has no age limit. it's the 50 over 50 europe middle eastern africa list. we immediately went global, and you will see just why. we're back in a moment.

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>> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ brack at 7:29 here on the east coast. following news out of ukraine this morning where at least 16 people are dead including a number of ukrainian officials after a helicopter crash. joining us live in outside of kyiv nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez. what more do we know about this? >> reporter: good morning, willie. this crash has shaken not just kyiv also ukraine's wartime government with the loss of their interior minister. one of the most senior members of president zelenskyy's cabinet. a man whose job is to maintain the internal security of ukraine. its position equivalent to homeland security. we are at the site of this helicopter crash. i just want to show you a little of what's behind us. you can see emergency crews are still working here, and, willie, this building is a kindergarten.

at about 8:20 a.m. local time just as parents were dropping their kids off at school that helicopter came crashing over in this direction. it landed at a site over there. we know that at least three children were killed here on the ground along with a number of adults. nine people were onboard that helicopter, including the interior minister, his deputy and several other very serious members of his department. president zelenskyy has been leading a wave of tributes this morning, but is now also scrambling to fill a hole at the top of the ukrainian government. the investigation into this crash is being led by the state security service of ukraine, and they are saying at this point they cannot rule out any possibility from pilot error to some kind of technical malfunction, or that this helicopter was deliberately brought down, perhaps targeted

because of who was on it. willie, i can tell you there is no indication right now that the helicopter was shot down by russian forces. there were no reports of russian fighter jets in the air. we haven't heard of any russian missiles, but the question obviously when such a senior member of president zelenskyy's wartime government is killed, was there foul play involved? willie? >> a tragedy compounded by the fact, my gosh that it crashed into a kindergarten, and this just a few days after the russian attack on the apartment building in dnipro. just outside of kyiv, raf, thanks. president zelenskyy is expected to address the world economic forum in davos, switzerland today as his country renews its push for more advanced weapons in its fight against russia. this follows appearance is yesterday by ukraine's first lady who pressed world leaders and executives it's aed world gathering to do more to help. bring in msnbc's chief national

correspondent keir simmons joining us from davos. keir, how central is ukraine to the conversations you're hearing around davos this year? >> reporter: oh, absolutely central. i think president zelenskyy will get a rupturous welcome when he speaks here. lots of talk of unity, and talking to various people here, i think we are seeing now america and europe leaning in to the idea of supporting ukraine on a new offensive. the whole question of supplying tanks. i also think it's really likely that the russians are going to try a new offensive. the prospect of bloodshed is real. i will say politically, of course, there are lots of challenges. the chancellor, the german chancellor, chancellor schulz will speak here and the sweden and finland ratified to enter nato still blocked by hungary

and turkey. so it isn't a smooth ride, despite, i think, what you'll see today. which is an attempt to show support and unity with ukraine. >> keir, we have seen over the past 9, 10, 1 months great unity between the united states and kyiv and the battle in ukraine. not a lot of unity around the inflation reduction act. in fact, outright hostility. explain, if you will. >> reporter: yeah. i think folks watching who won't know about this, but there is real upset in europe about the inflation reduction acts, seen as protecting american jobs over jobs from australia including in europe. many folks waging say that's a good thing, but it's seen here as protectionism and i was in the room which the secretary of labor was peppered with

questions by european journalists about the i.r.a. ad didn't seem to have an answer. later the labor department reassured me president biden understands the eu's concerns and that it is on the agenda. shows heading towards very difficult economic times, and that has another potential -- the labor secretary asked, could there be a trade war between america and europe right when there is an actual war happening in europe? hard economic times. play you sound from david beasley from the world food program, guys. while all of that is happening, the world food program warning there are millions and millions in it's developing world facing serious challenges. just take a listen. >> now the number of people on planet earth that are marked with starvation is 350 million people, and it's only getting worse, because of climate shocks, fuel costs, fertilizing

problems, supply chain disruption. so 2023 is going to be bad. but 2024 could be catastrophic. >> reporter: so that's another worry. let's not forget there are populations in the global south not as supportive of ukraine as western europe and the u.s. so, you know, look, there is a lot of unity over ukraine but there are a little real difficulties in the world as we head into 2023. >> so, keir, all the extraordinarily serious issues, and let's go from the serious to the sublime of "spare." the all-time best-selling nonfiction book in the uk. i ask this question, because, it doesn't matter where i'm having dinner, or whether it's with policymakers or cultural influencers, everybody loves talking about this.

i'm sure they are in davos. certainly i know still transfixed in britain. you read reviews in the united states and most are fairly positive of the book but not so in britain leading to the question everybody keeps asking. is king charles going to invite his son to the coronation, or is there too much water already under the bridge? >> reporter: doesn't seem like -- seems like no matter where i go, joe -- >> exactly. >> reporter: taking questions about "spare." >> exactly. >> reporter: look, i guess -- yeah. i mean -- that is the question, i think most folks think that if they can patch things up, then that would be a good thing. i certainly think that british diplomats would like to see it. only looks great for the uk, but

one of the real achilles' heel if you like of the british diplomatic system with the royal family, is that it is a family with real tensions. and are they going to be able to put it off? and all of those questions, we talked about it in the past. about whether, how do they get in a room, harry and meghan and have conversations if they don't see printing another book at another time? so we shall see, i guess, is my answer to that, joe. >> all right. nbc's keir simmons live from the world economic forum. so he can answer our questions. >> i just know how that can happen. >> about harry and meghan. thank you so much, keir. greatly appreciated, the report and your patience. steve rattner, it may be a surprise to americans that european leaders are so upset with inflation reduction act, but i'm curious. isn't this the united states doing what europe and the rest of the world has done for quite some time? and that is cleaning up some --

some sort of protectionist barriers to help domestic suppliers? >> sure. there's a long tradition, joe, of countries acting in their own interest trying to put up tariff barriers can or non-tariff barrierses way was of slowing down imports into their own country when they want to try to favor their own industry. france back in the day famous for doing this, but, yes, a long tradition. the issue with the inflation reduction act, an extreme version of it, spelled out clearly by american strategy and perhaps in violation of world trade organization rules but you point out many other violating these days anyway and all part of this sort of global jostling for resources and protecting their own jobs back home at a time when jobs plentiful here at the moment but a time we feel

like areas in manufacturing, want to bolster our own workforce. only way to do that, force companies to make things here. you see this going on with semiconductors in the moment and the new big facility in phoenix biden visited a few weeks ago and so forth. there is a strong feeling in this country we need to bring as many of these new jobs to america as possible and not get in a position we've gotten in before with electronics when it's made somewhere else. >> pandemic is the backdrop, strained supply chains. a lot of governments wanted to make these things at home and not have to rely on other countries, where a plant may be shut down because of the cove are id outbreak or workers can't load the dock because of supply chain issues. this year, about protectionism, europeans claim the united states has put in the inflation reduction act, remember, the main event when french president macron was in washington when he

and biden met. a thorny topic one that wasn't resolved. agreement to study it, try to work to a resolution. nothing's really happened yet. certainly the administration was aware this is going to be a major story going forward and concern on both sides of the atlantic, could be a flashpoint in the year ahead. >> really could. again, covid changed so many things. you are going to see more focus on the united states doing what it can to be able to -- to make things in this country. we had zeke emanuel yesterday talking about the fact that 90% of our drugs are actually made in china. pharmaceuticals made in china. >> for flu and rsv right now. antibiotics. >> we're not making it here. we remember when covid broke out. we couldn't get -- had to get masks from china. ventilators from across the world, and you go into any realm

of our economy, and that's the case, where we've outsourced so much to save .0001%, or one cent on this product or that product. i think the inflation reduction act is an attempt to respond to that, and bring those jobs home, and we need to become self-sufficient. >> steve rattner thank you very much for coming on this morning. and coming up on "morning joe," how restaurant workers helped pay for lobbying to keep their wages low. david pharonhold joins us with new reporting for the "new york times." that's next on "morning joe." hey, man. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual.

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snee. a boston sports fan you're a boston red sox fan raising children in new york city. a great theory of mine. ours of a little younger haven't committed, but do you ever worry they're going to come home one day with yankee paraphernalia or tell you this is the team they've chosen to throw their life behind? >> they know the stakes. so, no. no chance. raised at red sox fans. i've lived in new york a long time, done nothing to diminish my fandom for the red sox. in fact, living among yankee fans every day just makes me dislike them all that more. >> making his debut on "late night seth meyers," jonathan lemire. a personal shot at me. >> i thought so. >> great appearance. great opener. seth loved you. one of the best guys in our business. did you have a good time last night? >> fun. he was great. talked about "morning joe," and

had fun at george santos expense and seth, of course, is a red sox fan as well. he's from new hampshire and he and his staff were great, were kind. >> he's the best. >> yes. >> so i'm curious. what does he think about the red sox and their offseason? >> happy about the devers signing, we all are, but disappointed how they've done. he's interesting. acknowledges, though still a big fan. after 2004 when they finally did win, able to breathe a bit. still enjoys it, roots for them, but means a little less. i said to him, i don't know what you're talking about. i'm completely the opposite. joe, i know you are, too. still living and dies everybody red sox. >> give you a number burned indelibly in my mind and willie will know immediately what i'm talking ak. that number is 27. all right? red sox fans, they can -- they

can relax when they have not 27 world series championships but 28, and they're a long way off. no time to rest. no rest for the weary. >> we've been on the chase 28, for like a generation now. i know you weep for yankee fans. 2009. >> 13 long years. went through '86. a little different. then again we don't have the resources you guys do. what i meant. surrounded by yankee fans every day and this is what happens. >> get to it. >> a long time ago. >> and we're hiring, the only people we're hiring 38-year-old journeymen who are broken down. like, seriously. it's just -- barnicle's going to do middle relief for us mid-season. >> fifth or sixth inning could probably do it. better than what we had last

year. >> and phil niekro? three him out on the mound. >> barnicle has two pitches. eephus right and eephus left. >> confuses a lot of hitters, though. strikes them out or hit an 800-foot home run. >> a lot of souvenirs for fans when barnicle takes them out. >> and late night on the show, great. and restaurant workers at forefront of the fight for a higher minimum wage. now learning about a company allegedly taked money out of the paychecks of those employees and without the employees' knowing puts it in the pockets of people lobbying to keep their wages lower. joining us now to explain, investigative reporter for the "new york times" david puts ite pockets of those lobbying to keep it lower. help us to understand that. tell us about serve safe. what does that company know? >> if you are in the restaurant business, it's a name you know

well. the one we wrote about is something called food handler training and it's basic training like you should bathe every day, and that is required in five states, and they all take it and paid $15 to a company called serve safe. what they don't know is where that money goes? it's part of a national restaurant association, and it takes the worker's money and uses that money to lobby against the worker's interest, to keep the wages low. >> what has the reaction been to your findings? this is extraordinary stuff. the money that should be there is being used to lobby against them. >> i was stunned. given this arrangement has been around for ten years, i was stunned at how few people knew

this. we talked to not just rank and file, but people who were working against the national restaurant association had no idea their money was going to fund the other side. i was stunned at how little people knew about this. >> the president of the national restaurant association declined to be interviewed for david's story but release add statement that reads, quote, the association's advocacy work keeps restaurants open and workers employed and finds pathways for work you are opportunity and keeps our communities healthy. >> david, obviously the wages are extraordinary low. the question is, what is next for the workers? >> well, because the restaurant association has been so good at stopping minimum wage increases at the federal level, the most recent time in 2021, and the

fight has now moved to states, including new york where democrats are in charge. this is going to be a fight you will see in all the statehouses this spring. >> is there a likelihood they will win some of the fights and the wages will go up simply because there's a worker shortage? >> there's a separate issue on who workers will work for. the minimum wage, you would be surprised how strong this group is. they won a fight in california that passed a bill that made the wage for restaurant workers go way up, and now thanks to a petition drive, that will go on a ballot referendum for 2024 and it's on hold. >> thank you so much for bringing us that story. good to have you on. >> that's an amazing story. >> it is. up next, new details out of

new mexico. a failed republican candidate for the state's house is accused of hiring people to attack democratic leaders. plus, despite everything you think you know, america is on the right track. that's the optimistic outlook from our next guest, "the atlantic"'s david brooks joins us next on "morning joe." trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪ [coughing] ♪ ...by, you know how i feel. ♪ if you're tired of staring down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ start a new day with trelegy.

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save hundreds a year on your wireless bill over t-mobile, verizon, and at&t. talk to our switch squad at your local xfinity store today. we're learning disturbing new details this morning on the failed gop candidate who was arrested monday after a string of shootings at the homes of new mexico democrats.

republican solomon pena is accused of conspiring with and paying four men to carry out shootings at the homes in the albuquerque area. thankfully nobody was hurt in the shootings. and nbc's news correspondent, hallie jackson, has the details. >> republican candidate who lost his race is accused of orchestrating a plot to shoot at four democratic officials. this is suspect solomon pena looking for one of them. weeks before the attacks began, pena tracked down and confronted some of those democrats at their houses, angry about his election loss. >> i was really worried about him because he seemed erratic, and he was spreading mistruths

about the election. >> at another's home -- >> i walked over to my daughter's room, and i saw more bullet holes going through her room. >> and martinez was also targeted. >> my family came here from mexico. a place where politics and journalism can get you killed, and the fact that this happens not only in our country but that it happened in our own backyard is terribly disappointing. >> pena, the alleged ringleader, police say, paid four other men to target the homes of four state democrats. he wanted the shootings to be aggressive so those inside would not be likely to be laying down.

none of his allegations are true, and that the state's election was run with accuracy and integrity. >> it should never be terrifying for an elected official to be an elected official, yet we are seeing more of this across the country. >> hallie jackson reporting there. our next hour, we will go live to new mexico where pena will appear in court later today. this is a staggering story, when we consider we avoided something terrible here. a 10-year-old kid, and sheet rock dust on the child's bed. but this is a guy that lost handily and it was not a competitive race, and he was at the stop the steal rally reportedly on january 6th, and

he resorted against violence and not only against his opponent but other democrats in the state. >> you are correct, willie, we narrowly averted a true tragedy. it's indicative of where we are in our politics right now. the growing threat, and officials are warning us about the increased presence of violent rhetoric. he did not lose by a point or two but by 48 points. he lost by 48 points and still suggested there was fraud. he said this was fraudulent, the things that happened and claims the election was stolen from him. we know that, of course, was not the case. and let's recall the attack on paul pelosi a few months ago, and it was fueled by donald trump and his legacy, and it manifested itself in an act of

violence. >> and january 6th. this is absolutely terrifying. >> it's also just predictable. >> yeah. >> willie, this is sadly the next step in the chain, the causation chain. if you look at january 6th, you look at the conspiracy theories, you look at the violence that was fueled by donald trump, the lies that are believed by people who follow donald trump, and these extremists, the maga extremists are willing to take it to the next step. >> and social media. >> and you see the fascist violence overthrow a democratic vote in brazil who are copying us, and donald trump and the very people we were talking about getting committee assignments, the very people who will not condemn the violence on january the 6th. in fact, when this guy and other

maga extremists hear leaders in washington, d.c. calling those that tried to overthrow the federal government, those that tried to overturn an election, those who righted and used american flags to beat the hell out of police officers, leaving four dead. when they are saying they were just tourists that day, when they are being called political prisoners, when you have a new political congress promising to investigate the improper jailing of these, quote, political prisoners, this is what feeds the violence. this is what feeds the fascism and the hatred. >> it's a game to a lot of these people because it allows them to raise money. they are saying what they think the audience wants to hear and

they get ratings and all that, and it's not a game and it's deadly serious and something that has to be rectified. we have had all these cases along the way, and we talked about pizza gate and it sounded crazy until a man showed up and shot it up. we are lucky the state representatives and a young girl, apparently, were not killed because this man planted in his head that losing by 48 points meant the election was rigged against him and he had to do something about it in his mind. it was a righteous cause, and unfortunately in a lot of peoples' minds it's a righteous cause. >> and let's be clear. planted in his brain by donald trump and trumpism and election denialism. >> and probably through the avenue of social media. >> yeah. >> and again with the

republicans on capitol hill suggesting people that rioted that day and beat the hell out of police officers with american flags, they are political prisoners according to people who are now running the house of representatives. >> what do you expect? >> let's bring in a contributing writer, mr. brooks, and eugene daniels. david, we will get to you in a minute. >> david says we should be optimistic. i'm waiting for this. >> much-needed optimism. eugene, you first, obviously everybody is talking about the debt ceiling, and they are concerned about defaulting on the debt. >> we were talking about how you can negotiate without negotiating, and the white house is saying they are not going to negotiate, this should be something that is done without concessions or any kind of baggage to just lift the debt

ceiling. how republicans, mccarthy promised the holdouts that there would be slashes to the budget tied to the ceiling, and you end up with the two sides meeting in the middle. when i was talking to aides yesterday on the republican and democratic side, and they were saying, one, we all know and they think the democrats in the house and the kind much nine republicans they will be able to get in the senate will have to figure out a way to give mccarthy an off-ramp here, because he will have to go back to his conference and say something. we watched, what, last week, two weeks ago, even though it feels like a year ago, how mccarthy when he was trying to be speaker, democrats sat back and let that happen. i don't think they are willing to give him an offering, and they don't want him to save face because they feel like the house republicans are going to be

really irresponsible here because the closer we get to the x date, which is when the treasury no longer is using the emergency measures, the economy is -- it will be catastrophic, what will happen to the economy. that's what you keep hearing from democrats in the white house, and you shouldn't play games here. i will say moderates are saying at some point everybody is going to have to come to the table and blink here, but we have a lot of time between now and then and if you can convince folks, like convince mcconnell like democrats did in 2021, when we had a short debt ceiling fight to go ahead and blink, they think they can do the same thing with mccarthy this time around. >> david, we always talk about dialectal thinking, and we're

bringing that in today, and you wrote an article that says a story of america is a story of convulsion and reinvention. we go through moments when the established order stops working. the culture is a collective response to the problems of the moment, and as a new problem becomes obvious the culture shifts. there's an open society such as ours has an ability to adapt in a way some do not. china has grown more authoritarian and inept. america is a wounded giant and many of its wounds are self inflicted but america has always stumbled forward and driven by an inner turbine of ambition and aspiration that knows no rest. >> if you are looking at it that

way -- >> i always say the same thing, ambassadors, i say, listen, let me help you out here. yes, we are a wounded giant. yes, we stumble around. but to borrow from the lincoln quote, we always stumble forward, so if you are going to place your bets and think maybe you are going to bet on china or russia, you are going to lose in the end. >> yeah, i think that's right. we often get compared these days to the 1890s, and the in the 1890s, we had political corruption like crazy. we had rampant inequality and oligarchs and lynchings, and terrible things, and the 1890s led to the 20th century, which is the american century. my basic point is that a country can do a lot of things wrong if it gets the one thing right, and that's unleashing the creativity

of its people. my friend is an economists at george mason and says take a piece of paper and list all the things wrong with the people, climate change, racism, and the rise of authoritarianism on the right, and put that in a column, and take another column and write seven words, and america has more talent than ever before. and his point is column b is more important than column a, and i agree with that. when i look at the country, i think we have a lot of problems, but we also have a lot of progress. we have had wage stagnation for decades, and that ended in the '90s and wages are now growing. we had inequality, income inequality, and that ended in 2007. in part because of what obama did and in part because wages from the bottom are going up. we have the finest educational system in the world, and we are seeing groups rise and succeed.

let me give you one example that is a result of our educational system. hispanic americans have seen their dropout rates come way down. they have seen college graduations go way up. hispanic college enrollments surpassed white enrollments in 2012 or something like that. hispanic wage growth has been higher than any other group. these are good stories just out there and i wanted to tell a few of them. >> you talked about column a and column b. column b usually erectfies. we could have a political system right now that is corrosive for a lot of different reasons, social media, extremists understanding that the more extreme they get the more money they can raise online, and the breakdown of political parties, and we can talk about that.

when we look at washington, we miss a big picture. something i have been talking about a lot lately is think about childhood poverty is at a 75-year low. teenage pregnancy, 60-year lows, which, by the way, conservatives, 20 or 30 years ago, used teenage pregnancy as a benchmark of a collapsing society. right now teenage pregnancy at 60-year lows. the dollar is at a generational high against other currencies across the globe. we look at our united states military, if we use kennedy's measurement from the late '80s, our military is stronger compared to the rest of the world's military at any point in the history of the world. you look at -- more job openings than ever before. you look at all these

measurements, there are a lot of things in the country that get eclipsed by the insanity of the building behind you. >> yeah, and that's real insanity. in our business, i think we have been a little too negative, frankly, and i include myself in that and there's a lot of negative stuff to write about, but one thing you have seen, 150% rise in the number of headlines that are meant to make people fearful and angry. there's lot of angry stuff going on, and if it bleeds it leads and we want to get attention that way. one thing that is the glory of the country, and we are incredibly innovative people. it's a global innovation index, and the united states ranks second in the world and how innovative we are after switzerland. and there's a problem over the

last many years where wealth has flowed to the coast, so there has been a ton of investment in california and new york and places -- d.c. and places like that. i saw a map produced by rahm emanuel, who we all know, and nobody gets as much investment as we do, and he proves where that's going to. and over the billion-dollar investments, only two were going to california, but five and six were going to iowa, illinois, the industrial midwest. so there are a lot of people really trying to get the wealth spread around and the jobs spread around and there are signs we are healing in that way, and that's another good thing that is happening in america. >> and another point you write in the story, the education in the country is under constant

criticism, and many districts are underfunded and compared to other thriving democracies we are spending more, but that investment in young people and even into our universities, and you point out eight of the ten best universities are in the united states. what are the outcomes of those investments here? >> we could do better. we have a situation in the united states where we throw money at things and sometimes if you throw enough money at a problem you can make progress. we spent twice as much in our education, so we spend a lot of money, and you get a skilled workforce. i would want to change that spending, but there's a lot of

innovation going throughout the educational system. you see people working at skilled jobs is rising steadily year after year after year. the university system is in the top ten of the world. i was in buffalo a couple years ago, and students were coming from all around the world because they wanted to be in our school systems. some of them will go back, and that's great because we want the rest of the world to do great, and some will stay. i think i teach at college and i have students from all over the world, and they just hunger to come here. they are phenomenal students. >> you know, eugene, also, we were talking about the negativity of the media.

i think we have to do a better job talking about the things going right with the country, and also, though, i have friends that will read a story online about how some dope at the mall of america kicked out a guy who was wearing a jesus t-shirt. this guy would come to the mall and would preach there, and there was not supposed to be preaching, and he came in one day and had a jesus t-shirt, and it makes the headlines, and i get e-mails, see, america hates jesus. or you have a university that fired a professor that showed a piece of art, and they now uncancelled her and offered her job back, and that story is progressing. and then the critical race theory, you have somebody that takes something too far and you have an extreme reaction to that

and teachers are afraid to talk about our history, whether it's slavery or jim crow laws, and you name it, you line it up. people love to grab the bad news and throw it up on social media and use that as an indictment against this country one way or the other. >> i think that's right. people often take one example of something and extrapolate that to mean that everybody that looks like that is like that, and everybody that lives in that location is like that. that has been happening so much and it happens more and more on facebook and -- twitter is more of a fighting zone. facebook, you know, when i spend time on facebook looking around, that's where you see a lot of this kind of exextrapolation happening and how these social media companies handle this, because what you see in the conversations is there's almost no room for nuance. probably none in almost any conversation, right? everyone is finding themselves

in one corner or the other. as david is talking about this, that's all i am thinking about is how do we figure out as a country to have more conversations with more nuance, and i look at the folks up and down pennsylvania avenue as examples of their not being nuanced and conversations, right? when i was talking about the playbook, there was not a lot of nuance every time we would talk about the documents, the biden documents, there's not a lot of nuance on both sides of the aisle and that's something this country, before people accept david's premise that we should be more optimistic, it's how do you tell people that? how do people start feeling that? especially when you talk to people of color and you talk about inequality, and you are talking about don't teach kids how this country was built and

what it looked like and how it treated people that look like me, that's not going to make people feel like they are part of the system and therefore they are not going to feel optimistic. >> yeah, you are exactly right. that's why it's so important that it's fact-based and people are not just grabbing things off the internet. speaking of that, and going to another topic, perhaps one of the reasons, david, why we have reason to be optimistic -- i just saw online this morning, a new story, childhood vaccinations are going down. the consequences of that terrible because of the anti-vaxxing nonsense out there. again, friends, family members will e-mail me talking about the horrors of the vaccines. my response is simple. i got very bad news for you. donald trump will be remembered 50 years from now in one positive light in particular,

and that is that he and the white house with operation warp speed chose the right vaccines. we were hearing it could take five, six, seven years and we may never get a vaccine. in a year's time -- it's breathtaking what the scientific community did. yes, what our leaders in the white house did in picking the vaccines right for this country opposed to what europe did and china. >> yeah, we have had a pretty good year for technical breakthroughs. the vaccines are a miracle. and we focused on open ai, and ai, i think, is going to be a great tool, and it increases the amount of intelligence in the world. we had breakthroughs in nuclear fusion in technology, and the scientific establishment will continue to have breakthroughs.

our problem, sometimes our country is materially in better shape than ever before, but subjectively in worse shape. the problems that we have have to do with the relationships between us human beings between each other, the levels of depression and suicide and polarization, and that leads to this apocalypticism, and this is tucker carlson's job. >> sorry to interrupt, but maybe it's the old southern baptist in me. i see the declining membership -- the declining belief in god, and the declining belief of people going to churches or synagogues or mosques that used to bind communities together. we will leave theology to the side right now, but that used to bind communities together across the country. that's gone.

in its place, materialism, loneliness, social desperation, suicide. i am just wondering, conservatives have been writing about this for decades now. how does that play into what you were just saying? >> yeah, i think that's our weakest point. i think about it like this. it's just social skills. how do you build a friendship? how do you break up with somebody without tearing their heart apart? what do you say to somebody who is depressed? these are skills. they used to be taught in families and churches and synagogues and mosques, and they were taught at sunday school and the ymca and schools. schools used to think our job is to make people good, so they can be good friends. i read a quote from a headmaster, and he said our job is to produce students who are

invaluable at a ship wreck and exceptional in advance. >> that is so well put. david brooks, and politico's eugene daniels. thank you for coming on. what a great conversation, david. thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," several far-right members of the republican party have been reinstated on powerful house committees. we're taking a look at the new assignments. plus, our conversation with an award-winning actor, hugh jackman. later this hour, this morning find out who made the 50 over 50 europe, middle east and

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post," marjorie taylor greene of georgia will be seated on the homeland security committee, and the house oversight and accountability committee. greene was stripped of her assignments in the past congress for her past support of violence and racist remarks. before taking office, she claimed deadly school shootings were staged. she liked the post calling for the execution of federal agents and once endorsed claimed that 9/11 was done by the u.s. government. >> i want to stop this right here. >> it's painful. >> we didn't mention -- the names we were mentioning now, we didn't mention them, and i

didn't mention marjorie taylor greene or others that much because they wanted to get press. they didn't necessarily get it here, but why amplify something if she's a back bencher, and now i am curious what is the impact of having somebody who is a 9/11 truther, and somebody that has anti-semitic remarks. we laugh about jewish space lasers, but it's not -- it's not actually funny when you have somebody who's made bizarre anti-semitic comments, and the george soros comments, and

suddenly she's put in a position that's one of the powerful positions in the house. >> yeah, and with china doing what it's doing, and we have the global challenges coming at us, and at the same time domestically we are as divided as we have been, and we can't pass legislation to cope with things. suddenly all the foxes have been turned into game keepers. just at precisely the time at home and abroad we have an inbox that in many ways is unprecedented. yes, she will say things that will attract notice, and she's a bomb thrower and flamethrower, but we need the u.s. government to perform. these are people who are not interested in governing but they

are more performance artists. once we stretch through it and get down to it, and now that these people have an obligation to govern without a capacity to govern, it ought to give people more pause. >> and paul gosar of arizona will be on the accountability committee and the house resources committee. he was removed from his committee assignments after he tweeted an altered video of him killing ocasio-cortez. lauren boebert of colorado will also be seated on the house oversight committee. all four voted against certifying biden's 2020 presidential win after the january 6th capitol insurrection. and they are some of the trump's

supporters in the house. congressman perry said a pardon will sit on the house foreign affairs committee. republican congressman, andy biggs of arizona, who also reportedly asked for a pardon to excuse his role in trying to overturn the 2020 election, will be a member of the powerful house judiciary committee. they hold actual power in the congress. >> well, at least we have a country where anybody can be elected to congress no matter

who they are or pretend to be. i mean, it's horrible. it's terrible that these people under a position of power. they don't -- they are not serious about governing. they absolutely -- it's all performance art to them. you know, it's -- it's awful. >> yeah, it absolutely is. and somebody supporting donald trump, that's one thing. 75 million people supported donald trump, so that -- that's obviously not an issue on committees. but you look at some of these people that were in the middle of trying to overturn a democratic election, and now they are in power and you look at some of the decisions they will be making, and you have a great example of it coming before us with the fact that we may default on our debts for the

first time as a country. these are the people now that are going to basically hold the entire country hostage. >> that's exactly right, joe. i would say on the debt limit, you have kevin mccarthy who has not told anybody -- or some people may know but we don't know, the public doesn't know, what he promised to the extreme wing of his party as it relates to the debt limit. we know he promised cuts. the devil is in the details always, right, in discussions in washington, especially when you are dealing with the crazy train. what we are talking about the debt limit, it's cuts to domestic programs, that means medicare, social security, veterans programs, and they have to pick among these when they make the cuts. you see kevin mccarthy, it's important to remember the devil

is in the details here and the right wing of his party is pressuring him to make massive cuts that will hurt the public. coming up, we will go live to new mexico where a failed political candidate is accused of paying gunmen to shoot up the homes of local democratic leaders. what police are saying about the suspect, a vocal supporter of former president, donald trump. "morning joe" is back in a moment. called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. i felt like my movements were in the spotlight. ingrezza is a prescription medicine to treat adults with td movements. ingrezza is different. it's the simple, once-daily treatment proven to reduce td that's #1 prescribed. people taking ingrezza can stay on their current dose of most mental health meds. ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. don't take ingrezza if you're allergic to any of

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a local news web cited is reporting a disable veteran is calling out george santos claiming the lawmaker scammed him out of $3,000 for his dying dog's life-saving surgery. the allegations are from 2016. according to the site, the veteran says he was living in a tent with his service dog, sapphire, when he learned the dog had a tumor.

he claims a vet technician recommended the pet charity, friends of pets united, run by george santos, who was using the name anthony devul -- >> wait. >> let me finish. the veteran told a local news sight, that santos closed it. his dog, sapphire, died in 2017. e-mails from the local news website to santos and his attorneys were not returned. nbc news has not confirmed this report and reached out to santos for comment overnight, but has

not immediately heard back. could sapphire have been saved? i am curious. >> i don't know. >> what kind of dog was sapphire? >> looked like a pit bull. come on, man, we're waiting for a response. >> he took sapphire's money. >> how low does this go, man? >> oh, my gosh. look at sapphire. >> yeah, and the guy wrote a post in 2016 saying george santos, who -- >> anthony devulder. seriously, you -- how can they keep this guy in the house of representatives? >> there seems to be no bottom here. when i saw this story last night, i thought it can't be right, and even for george santos, that's too much. you see the facebook post from

2016, and there's a message that this happened there. i wonder whether santos' name is really george santos. this is terrible, a guy going through a challenging time and he was homeless and his dog got sick and he lost this money. but santos, he's on a pair of committees, and he didn't get the good ones because those were saved for lauren boebert and marjorie taylor greene. but he says, yeah, he's there, and his voters put him there and he's not going to step in. and then a standoff over the debt ceiling. we will go live to capitol hill where congress faces a looming deadline to head off a financial crisis. that's next on "morning joe." pay for what you need.

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today "forbes" and know your value are releasing the second annual 50 over 50 list in europe, the middle east and africa. we are honoring woman that achieved success after the age of 50 and in some cases well over 50. it's a long runway. it's on the heels of our 50 over 50 u.s. list and asia list. here to tell us more about the list and the summit in abu dhabi, is huma abedin, the huma chair of the 3050 summit. okay, maggie. the women who made our europe middle east and africa list hail from 28 different countries and territories and work across two dozen industries and this includes 88-year-old actress

sophia loren. tell us why and about her. >> well, she is a film legend. she is actually the only surviving member of afi's top 25 female film legends of all time. she's not just resting on her laurels, though. in 2020, she appeared in an italian drama and received accolades for this performance, including an award for defying age and ageism, which we just love for this list. but off-camera, and i don't know how many people know this, she's a huge foodie. in 1998, she released a cookbook of her best recipes and then in 2021, just two years ago, she went into the restaurant business for the first time. she opened a pizzeria, which is now turning into a chain, and frankly, a very fitting venture for someone who is credited with the phrase, "i would rather eat pizza and drink wine than be a size zero." >> i love it. and huma, 60-year-old journalist jalinia timchenko is one of the list makers. tell us about her. >> galina timchenko bodies what

it means to stand for freedom of speech. she's a russian journalist who have fired from a leading russian newspaper and she fled from to latvia and runs an independent news website called medusa, so she could report without the kremlin. she does it. she does it despite all the obstacles, because she believes now more than ever, her millions of russian-speaking readers need to know the truth about what's happening in that war. it's really a gutsy story and compelling woman. >> also on this list, maggie, let's talk about mona ataia, who has made a big mark in the middle east. her story? >> it's a compelling one. she's 53 years old. she's the founder of mum's world. it is the largest e-commerce site for children and baby's

goods in the middle east. her grandfather was an entrepreneur, her father was. earlier in her career, they co-founded a business that became the middle east's most popular job-searching site. looking to shop for them, and was so frustrated at the lack of consumer choice that she had. and she had experienced working for procter & gamble and johnson and johnson. she knew there was an ecommerce solution. she build a website, launched with 15,000 products in 2011, today, more than 300,000 products, 3 million commerce, and in 2021, a saudi investment group bought a majority stake in what is being held as the largest exit for a female ecommerce founder in the middle east. >> it is so amazing how fast 50 over 50 went global, because there's so many incredible stories. you can learn more about these extraordinary women and see who else made the list at forbes.com. this new list comes just seven weeks before our 3050 summit in abu dhabi, which is going to

take place over international women's day. it will be unforgettable. they'll be mentoring, networking, major connections made, and you'll hear from some of the world's top women leaders. and innovators. we're going to hear some powerful voices, including hillary clinton, ma lala, gloria stine help, ayesha curry, katherine o'hara, and many, many more. the conversations will be incredibly timely. i'll be talking with gloria steinem and hillary clinton about women's rights, not just in the middle east and around the world, but about what's happening back here in the u.s., where women have been set back by 50 years, with the recent overturning of roe v. wade. it's a really crucial time, maggie, to be speaking to these two women. what other types of conversations are we going to be looking forward to for the next summit? >> so, there are going to be a lot of entrepreneurial conversations, because, of course, talking about the founder's journey is the meat and potatoes of any event.

people come to us to learn how to start and grow their businesses. we have ayesha curry. she was on the 30 under 30 in 2018 for her restaurant empire, she has magazines, cookbooks, restaurants, so really food empire. she has a lot of insights to share. we have mo abdu, she was on the 50 over 50 in 2022. she's the founder of ebony life media. and she did not become an entrepreneur until the age of 40. she had worked in hr in oil and gas companies for most of her career until one day she woke up and said, this isn't it. and she told me as she was starting this media company, for years, as recently as 2013, hollywood was not calling her back. in 2018, a deal with sony changed all of that. and now she is netflix's biggest partner in africa. >> wow. >> so she has a lot to share. she's super passionate about sharing stories for and about women. and she told me she wants to produce stories so women watching who don't have role models and mentors in their own life can watch her stories and

then feel inspired, which i also think is really part and parcel of what we're doing with 3050, that mentorship angle. >> mika, we also have the actress katherine o'hara coming, award-winning actress. she's had a successful career in film and television for many decades and has worked throughout her 40s, 50s, into her 60s creaing these incredible characters. and one of the things katherine has done so magnificently is she has expanded into the world of comedy. and i think to be a woman comedian takes real gutsiness. you have to trust your audience, you have to be vulnerable, you have to maybe do something that scares you. and for many of our attendees, who are exploring the world themselves, hearing from someone who's had to recreate, innovate how she thinks through navigating, frankly a fairly tough industry for women, as they age, i think there's many lessons that we can learn from her. really looking forward to talking to her. >> this is really coming together. thank you so much, maggie, and huma. and to learn more about the

30/50 summit in abu dhabi and how you can attend, go to "forbes".com or knowyourvalue.com. coming up, our conversation with oscar-nominated actor hugh jackman. "morning joe" is back in a moment. jackman. "morning joe" is back in a moment (bright music) - [announcer] what if there is a hearing aid that could keep up with you? this is jabra enhance select. it's a smart hearing solution that makes hearing aids more convenient and less expensive.

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it is 6:00 on the west coast. a live look at los angeles for you. welcome back to "morning joe." it's our fourth hour, 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. we've got a lot to get to this morning. >> what is that, four of seven, four of eight. how many hours do we do now, willie? >> six at last check, but that was a few weeks ago. we might be up to double digits soon enough. >> i need a jerry lewis telethon board, right? i need a microphone, the tux -- >> honestly, it feels like 30

minutes. >> i want to be standing there. bring on don rickles. you never know what don is going to say late in the telethon. it's just classic. >> dino comes out. >> you don't know. joey bishop and get those guys together. don rickles. you never know what's coming out, right? kind of like here. >> you never know. >> the -- >> you need to be quiet. >> the raised nell will be hammered down. >> um -- >> how is rog? >> rog is doing okay -- >> are you talking about the parrot. >> the parrot. >> why do we need a picture of the parrot. >> we brought the parrot from the war, but we talked about that -- i think that was four hours ago. >> where is the picture of the parrot? >> i'm telling you, there's not a gin joint between here and the philippines where willie hasn't taken money off of fellow

servicemen from ww2, the big one. playing poker. willie, you bought your first house from poker earnings. >> i was discharged dishonorably from that conduct. but it was worth it to me. i was sent home on a slow boat. >> avoided the war. that was good. >> yeah. >> this is a great callback to a joke from seven hours ago this morning. >> rog the parrot. i bet people have been wondering, what happened to rog. >> you're not going to find it on there. >> i am going to find it. >> right here. >> i have a picture of the parrot. >> because -- >> he's just in a cage over there. >> no, the parrot. >> so listen, a number of republicans lawmakers -- >> you go ahead. i'm going to find the parrot. >> okay, here's the parrot. >> look, there's rog! wait, where is he? there he is! he's so cute. >> look at rog at the end,

though. >> that's not rog. >> there's mika running from the law. >> rog, you cut it, t.j., right when rog comes off my shoulder. let's go back -- >> rog is amazing. i love rog. >> there we go. >> rog. >> and lewis saved his life, because it would have cost us okay. all right. that's right. >> those were some times there. hey, why don't we tease -- >> i was going to say, this was a good rehearsal, we'll tighten it up when we do it on the air. it'll be good. >> t.j., how long until we're back in live. >> no, we're live right now. we're live. >> and you know what happened was, that i fully dove into your digressing and now everything's a mess. it's four minutes past the top of the hour. >> two, one -- you're on. go, go. >> all right, a number of -- >> hold on -- oh. >> hold on one second.

>> nice, clean in. >> welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at los angeles for you. 6:04 on the west coast and 9:04 on the east coast. >> almost top of the hour. >> as we embark on the fourth hour of "morning joe." >> how many hours do we do? >> no, no, no, no! we cut that in rewrites, joe. >> oh, yeah, yeah. all right, go ahead. >> i -- i'm just going to get straight to the news now. a number of republican lawmakers who were previously removed from house committees over their extremist views have those assignments once again. all thanks to house speaker kevin mccarthy. we'll have the details. also ahead, a live report from new mexico where a failed political candidate has been arrested on suspicion of orchestrating a series of shootings at the homes and offices of four democratic lawmakers. plus, an arizona suburb has its water cut off by its neighbor.

now residents are filing suit. we'll have the details for you. also ahead this hour, award-winning actors hugh jackman and laura dern will be our guests for their powerful new movie. it is amazing. but of course, our top story, willie? >> yeah, right on capitol hill, where republicans once stripped of their committee assignments in the last congress for extremist or violent comments and actions now back on key committees. republican congresswoman marjorie taylor greene of georgia will be seated on the homeland security committee and the house oversight committee. green was stripped of her committee assignments during the last congress for her past support of political violence and history of anti-semitic and racist remarks. before taking office, green claimed on social media some deadly school shootings had been staged. she liked posts calling for the execution of democratic leaders and federal agents. and she once endorsed claims

that 9/11 was perpetrated by the u.s. government. she's now on homeland security. republican congresswoman paul gosar of arizona will be seated on the house oversight committee. the house voted in november of 2021 to censure gosar and remove him from his committee assignments after he tweeted an altered video that depicted him killing democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez and swinging a pair of swords after president biden. let's bring in capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. i guess this wasn't surprising. these were a lot of the deals that were cut with speaker mccarthy, that marjory taylor green, in exchange for her vote, and she was not a holdout, she was with mccarthy during that week, that she would get plum assignments like homeland

of shootings at the homes of new mexico democrats. republican solomon pena is accused of conspiring with and paying four men to carry out shootings at the homes in the

albuquerque area. thankfully, no one was hurt in the shootings. nbc news senior washington correspondent hallie jackson has the latest details. >> reporter: disturbing new details this morning show just how close it came to something far worse in new mexico, where a republican candidate who lost his race is now accused of work orchestrating a plot to shoot at the house of four democratic officials. this new ring football shows what one of the officials believes is suspect solomon pena at her former home, looking for her. >> hi, my name is solomon pena, can i speak with debby o'malley. >> reporter: weeks before the attacks began, pena tracked down and confronted some of those democrats at their houses, angry about his election loss. >> i did feel really worried about him, because he seemed -- he seemed erratic. he was spreading mistruths about the election. >> reporter: at another official's home, a bullet landed in her daughter's bedroom wall, so close it sprayed sheet rock dust on to the face of the

sleeping 10-year-old, according to arrest documents. >> walked over into my daughter's room, which is next to mine, and saw more bullet holes that were going through her room. >> reporter: state speaker javier martinez was also targeted. >> my family came here from mexico, a place where politics and journalism can get you killed. and the fact that this happens not only in our country, but that it happened in our own backyard is terribly disappointing. >> reporter: pena, the alleged ring leader, police say, paid four other men to target the homes of four state and local democratic officials starting in december. arrest documents show a confidential witness told police pena wanted the shootings to be more aggressive and to aim lower, shooting earlier in the evening, so those inside would more likely not be laying down. pena is a donald trump supporter and election denier, who was defeated in a landslide in his race in the state house in november, apparently adamant there was fraud, according to

officials, but new mexico's secretary of state office tells nbc news that none of his allegations are true, and that the state's election was run with accuracy and integrity. >> it should never be terrifying for an elected official to be an elected official, but yet, we're seeing more of this across the country. >> reporter: hallie jackson reporting there. let's bring in nbc news correspondent, vaughn hillyard. he joins us live from outside of the courthouse in albuquerque, where pena is set to appear this afternoon. vaughn, good morning. so, what more do we know about this guy? as hallie pointed out, this was not a close race. it was not in dispute, the outcome, but yet he had taken some cues from other people about elections being rigged and about fighting back against those elections and the results of them. and apparently organized a criminal ring to shoot at people in the democratic party in new mexico. what more do we know about this story? >> right. as the mayor of albuquerque here said, this was not just a conspiracy that put the lives of individuals in danger, but also

democracy. you're talking about a statehouse candidate here, who lost 74% to 26%. this was far from being a close race. but in these charging documents, they outline that solomon pena could not believe that he did not garner more votes based on the number of doors he knocked on. and there's some difficult truths in politics, is that not every door you knock on, that individual is not necessarily going to go vote for you here. but we are living in a time, per videos, in which solomon pain ya was there on january 6th, 2021, listening to donald trump's speech at the ellipse. there is no evidence that he did go inside of the capitol complex, but this is an individual who was clearly resisting the truth. he will be appearing here at the courthouse for his initial appearance here later this afternoon, but there are also multiple other individuals involved in this. there are four different shooting incidents at four different lawmakers' homes. and in these charging documents, they outline that three

individuals were paid to split $500 by solomon pena. so we're not talking about necessarily a big financial conspiracy here, evidently at play, but one that after the initial three shootings, solomon pena was apparently frustrated at their inability to more accurately target these homes, and that is where he went to that fourth lawmaker's home and specifically urged them to target lower into the homes. and as you heard from linda lopez, the state senator here, her daughter, the 10-year-old daughter woke up in the middle of the night believing there was a spider on her and she felt sand in her bed. that sand in her bed and that feeling of a spider, it was dust of the sheet rock of 12 bullets that passed through the lopez's home that ultimately they did not realize they were bullets until that following morning. but these are difficult details being laid out ahead of this initial court appearance, willie.

>> hey, it's jonathan. it seems as if everything we learn about this is more and more horrifying. we briefly spoke about this yesterday. it's not like this individual lost his election by three points. it wasn't a nail biter. he lost by 48. it's what so many officials have warned us about, that these conspiracies and the lies are fueling political violence, the dangerous rhetoric. speak broader about, you're out in the country all the time. aren't we just bracing ourselves for the next moment like this? >> reporter: right, jonathan, i've tried to get across to not only our viewers, but also conversations with my neighbors in new york and my family out in arizona that so many of the folks i meet along the way on the road, they're not living in reality here. and it's dangerous. you'll recall, after the mar-a-lago raid, that individual who just hours later ultimately brought a gun and tried to break into fbi offices in cincinnati. there are folks who truly believe in this idea of these elections being rigged and the

undermining of the american democracy in terms of some deep state that is trying to manipulate the american government. and what you are seeing here is from that fbi office attack, to the paul pelosi attack, to this attempted attacks that could have left individuals dead, you're seeing these sporadic violent events just build on top of one another, guys. >> nbc's vaughn hillyard live in albuquerque, new mexico, thank you very much for that report. and up next, award-winning actors hugh jackman and laura dern join us to talk about their new movie and its powerful message about mental health. "morning joe" will be right back. ght back with unitedhealthcare my sister has a whole team to help her get the most out of her medicare plan. ♪wow, uh-huh♪ advantage: me! can't wait 'til i turn 65! take advantage with an aarp medicare advantage plan... only from unitedhealthcare.

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a recently released government report is putting the spotlight on the state of mental illness in the u.s. results of the survey from the department of health and human services announced earlier this month covers data in 2021 and found that nearly one in four adults had mental illness with younger people in that group reporting higher levels. the report says comparisons to other years are difficult because of covid, but in the

time leading up to the pandemic, the level of mental illness had been rising. given these numbers, it is no surprise that our next guest's new movie may hit close to home for many. hugh jackman stars in "the son," playing a successful workaholic new york lawyer struggling with reuniting his family after it falls apart. the movie releases nationwide this friday. in a moment, we're going to talk to hugh and co-star laura dern and director florian zeller, but first, let's look at a scene featuring this modern-day father and his troubled child. >> i don't know what else to do with you, nicholas. i'm just, i'm telling you straight, i just don't know. i have -- i have tried to listen to you, i've tried to be there for you. i've tried to give you strength and confidence, but obviously none of that's any use. i mean, you really think you can

just live your life like that, doing whatever the hell you feel like? getting out of school, never taking any responsibility, refusing to grow up? i mean, what are you going to do with your life if you're not doing anything? what's going to become of you? naturally, you have no answer. stop staring at me like that. what's the idea? are you trying to intimidate me? that's not going to work. i can tell you that right away, not with me. all right, i'm going to explain to you how it's going to be. starting tomorrow, whether you like it or not, you're going back to school. is that clear? >> no. >> sorry? >> i'm saying no, i will not go back to school. >> what are you doing, nicholas? what do you want? when i was your age, my mother was sick, i wasn't seeing my father anymore, i had money

problems, but i fought on. i fought on. and believe me, most days it was no joke. what has happened to you? what is there in your life that is so dramatic? you're not able to go to school like everybody else? answer me! answer me! >> i can't deal with it! >> can't deal with what? >> living! living! i can't deal with living and it's your fault! >> wow. hugh jackman joins us now. thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. >> my pleasure. >> wow, i have so many questions. there's so much about invalidation and trauma that is addressed in this movie. what compelled you to take on this project, to take on "the son"? >> i had just seen "the father," florian zeller's earlier movie which he won the oscar for and anthony hopkins won the oscar for and i was completely floored by that. i chased this movie down, i went and got the play and read it. and what was it? i felt a compulsion in my gut for the part, as an actor, but

also as a father. and as someone looking around me seeing an exponential growth in mental health crises and our inability, i think, as a society or as families to understand it, to know what to do, to talk about it, to be vulnerable about it. i felt this really tackled it head-on in a way i've never seen before and i wanted to be part of it. >> even in that scene, you capture the inability, sometimes, of a parent and a struggling child to connect. and you just watch them go farther and farther away from each other when the parent is desperate. >> yeah. >> describe, if you could, the pressures that your character was under before even things got out of control, just all of the different moving parts in his life. >> he's a very high-powered new york lawyer who's just getting probably the dream job of his life, which is to join a presidential campaign, to be the

main legal person on the president's -- the wanna-be president's team. this is a huge thing for him. he works so many hours -- i've spent time working with new york lawyers, it's 80 hours a plus minimum. he's just been divorced two years ago, so he's left the mother of nicholas, he's now with a new wife and has a baby. that baby is not sleeping. his wife is struggling with that, and at the very first scene of the movie, no spoiler alert, laura dern's character, the mother of nicholas says, i can't cope, and he comes to live with me. so now nicholas is living with me, with a new wife and the baby. laura's character, my character, now divorced are going to co-parent. it's never really been discussed. and throw that into the mix that the child is going through not just normal growing pains of a 17-year-old, but a mental health crisis. and it's just this mix of circumstances where my character feels like it's his job to fix

it, to solve it. his guilt over leaving the family. he thinks, i'm the one. and that's really his achilles heel. you see it in that clip. i'm going to fix this, i'm going to push him, i'm going to get him across the line. >> and in a way, he's the worst at it, because he feels it's all on him in that moment. and again, the desperation really comes through. for all parents, this movie will grip the heart, but for parents of kids who are struggling, it is -- you -- you all go there on mental health, not just a real crisis, but through the lens of a parent whose child tries to take his life. >> mm-hmm. >> which is a whole different kind of hell and desperation, for someone to go through. can you describe how this changes your character? and how his desperation to be a good parent forces him to confront some things in his own past. >> there's a scene in the middle of the movie with anthony hopkins, which is one of the

greatest acting days i've ever had in my life, but all of a sudden, you realize that the title of the movie "the son," may well be my character, a 54-year-old, and that in fact, what hinders us often in life, not just as parents, but in our relationships or in work is that we -- no matter what we've done or how many kids we've had, we're still -- i'm a son, a daughter, always, we're still children. we still carry that history with us, unless it's been resolved, particularly trauma. and that is when you realize that my character, who had been abandoned and had a very cruel, harsh father cannot bear the thought that he's not there for his son, that he's not the one who's going to fix things and be there and be the savior for his son. there's a wonderful line in this movie that chills me every time i hear it when the doctor says, love isn't enough, it's not always enough. it's the most important thing, but it's not enough, particularly around situations as serious as this. it takes people, sometimes, who

have distance, who have -- who are removed and have expertise. so you need, you know, for my character, it's just so hard for him to let go of being the one to solve it and to fix it. >> right. and your character, you mentioned, deals with abandonment, which parallels a little bit of what you have shared about your own life, which i'll get to in just a moment. but the movie really focuses on dealing with trauma, as you mentioned, and even, i read, you guys had psychiatrists on set, because this was so heavy that it could be impactful negatively to everybody playing out in these scenes. tell us when the decision was made to do that and why. >> the decision was made before the film started. cecil productions, so we worked with very, i thought, showed great wisdom in having available to every single person on the film, didn't matter who you were, psychiatrists available to talk to at any time.

and it was being used. i, luckily, have help. i have a therapist, who i was working with a lot through this. but not everybody does. and so there was one particular scene where, as parents, laura dern's character and mine have a choice as to whether to take their child out of the psychiatric hospital, which he's begging for, or to leave him in there. and that scene is very harrowing. it took us about two days to shoot it. and i remember quite a lot of the crew members needing three or four-hour break to go to talk to someone. i was so proud that people put up their hand, because in our business, you know, the show must go on. no matter what, you just keep plugging on. and then, actually, i think, that's not the answer. the answer is actually to put your hand up and say, i need a second, i need a break, i need to take care of myself here. >> that's amazing. and on that note, you have been so generous in sharing your own mental health journey, dealing with your relationship with your

mother. i'm curious how working on this project has impacted your relationships with people and your own work, your own mental health journey. >> i have changed quite a lot as a parent. and i think my kids would tell you that. i have a 17 and a 22-year-old and the first thing i try to do is to shut my mouth and to listen and to really try to understand what they're trying to communicate, what's underneath the words, what's really going on. try to get them to talk about their feelings. and then in my case, saying things like, i don't know. sorry, i'm feeling really angry, and i don't want to be angry with you, so give me a second and i'll come back to you on that. or i will say -- sometimes i used to hide things in my own life that had nothing to do with them. i'm anxious about the opening night of "the music man," for

example, and i will now say to them, did say to them, sorry if i seem remote, it's coming up and it comes from my head, i feel anxious, my mind starts to ruminate on it. so if i look distant or if i'm not really present, that's probably what's going on. it's got nothing to do with you. things like that. >> leading with your feelings. hugh jackman, thank you so much. the movie is "the son." it's incredibly powerful and it has an incredible cast. thank you very much, hugh, for being on with us. >> pleasure, mika. >> and speaking of that cast, let's now bring in hugh's co-star, academy award-winning actress laura dern, and the film's director, academy award winner florian zeller. thank you both very much for joining us. i want to continue the conversation. hugh was just incredible. the movie's incredible. and it really captures laura, the greatest challenge for the best mother in the world or the

most hotshot lawyer in new york city, the greatest challenge really is a troubled child. how did this project impact you? >> in every way possible. thank you so much for having us all. i feel so privileged to get to speak about florian's amazing screenplay and now film that he invited me to be part of. because there is no conversation like this that is shared globally. we are all experiencing the conversation around mental health and mental health crisis and particularly with adolescents. it is a deep epidemic. and something that we wanted to all explore together. how to take the shame out of the conversation and find community

around it. and both as hugh shared, the openness with which the entire cast and crew brought their life experience to each other, as well as everyone who's been seeing the film has been incredibly moving. so i'm learning every day and continue to. >> so, florian, i've got four kids. our good friend, mike barnicle, has seven, and mike used to tell me, you're only as happy as your unhappiest child. and that strikes too close to home. looking at this film, it was hard to watch, at times, especially with hugh jackman making the same exact mistakes that as a father, you know, i would make. and when i talk to my friends, the same mistakes that they would make. what are you being upset about? when i was young, i did this or that. after we got -- we talk about

dbt all the time, they would say, don't talk about yourself -- >> validate! >> validate! it is extraordinary watching this movie, because i just went to a reunion and my god, everything that you're exploring here, my friends at the high school reunion were all talking about with their children. >> yeah, thank you for saying that. but it's true that this is who we are, right? we are sons and daughters for -- and we are trying to deal with that and to deal with what we received, trying to do better, trying to do differently than what our parents did and you know, becoming parents, we understand that it's not that easy, you know, to do differently. and it's called "the son" and we understand that, you know, the father in that story, hugh jackman, is also a son, a son in pain who was just trying to be the father he never had or to be a better father than he had.

and you say that it could be painful, but i think that, you know, there is a consolation to make you remember that we are all on the same boat, trying to deal with the same fears, the same challenges, and i think that's, you know, what art can provide, the feeling that we are part of something bigger than ourselves. >> and as you asked me, like, you know, we are -- oh, i was just saying, the imperfections of being human, you know, as everyone says. they don't ask for a license before we become parents. and we're -- we're learning in realtime. and it's, you know, it's a terrifying and challenging job that is our greatest blessing, but i appreciate you bringing up dbt, something that, you know, those skills i am learning and is helping me as a communicator with my kids, as much as we can

listen and be available to them. which this film is such a reminder of, as well. >> listen, validate, lead with your emotions. two things can be true at the same time. >> radical acceptance. >> and you're not a hotshot. that's the bottom line. everything that works for you in the outside world is not what you need with your relationship with your kids. there are several emotional moments throughout the film. let's take a look at one key moment featuring laura, your character. take a look. >> when you think about it, there is so much joy in our family back then. i don't know what happened. i loved him so much. and you, i loved you so much, peter.

if you knew how much i loved you. >> there's so much here. there's so many layers. and what i love -- and i'll throw this to both of you. one of the things that worries me is that our family, people that we know, we're able to talk to professionals. we're able to learn about bbt. we're able to learn how to sort through this. what i love about this movie is you all open it up for everybody. this is a learning experience for people who may not be exposed to the type of help that families need. >> yeah, and also it's difficult to accept the idea that you're not well equipped to help the people you love, and that you

need to ask for help. sometimes it takes time to accept that. and so this is what the story is about to remember that it's not a shame not to be equipped and not to do anymore as parents. that's okay. there are people around there that could help. this is important to get help. >> and that it's easy to be blinded by one's own grief or shame and this story, per the scene you showed, two parents of divorce, and as a mother, one thing i was so moved by in the character she was leading with her belief that somehow it was her or her feel failing or the divorce or what she hadn't done. it was very hard to see outside yourself and really help another person if you'reing to hold the blame. you can't get into the action of being the supporter, and as so

beautifully wrote and it's so painful but true, sometimes love is not enough, as the doctor says in the film. and that is a great reckoning as a parent certainly. >> it sure is. love is everything, but you also need skills as a parent. "the son" opens in theaters nationwide this friday. thank you both so much for doing this movie. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." right back with "morning joe." put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when uc got unpredictable,... i got rapid symptom relief with rinvoq. check. when uc held me back... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc got the upper hand... rinvoq helped visibly repair the colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief. lasting, steroid-free remission. and a chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check. check. and check.

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